WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 965 - Rita Rudner

Episode Date: November 5, 2018

Rita Rudner is very likely the only person to start a comedy career because of an article in the New York Times business section on soft soap. It was quite the turn of events for Rita, who was dancing professionally on Broadway since she her teenage years. Rita tells Marc how she utilized the performing arts culture of New York City to create a comedy curriculum for herself, how she rose up through the city clubs and took her act on the road to become a major headliner, and why she decided to start working regularly in Las Vegas. This episode is sponsored by The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, YouTube Music, Stamps.com, and ZipRecruiter. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Welcome to it. I'm broadcasting from beautiful downtown Manhattan now. I'm way downtown. I'm on Lower East Side downtown. I've moved from midtown to downtown. Today, the weather, I'm looking out my window. It's fucking stunning. It's fall.

It's crisp. It's clear. Leaves are changing on the trees It's fucking stunning. It's fall. It's crisp. It's clear. Leaves are changing on the trees that are sort of dotting the streets here in Manhattan. And as always, after I stay here for a little while, I realize what an amazing and successful experiment Manhattan seems to be on the level of humanity. Just all types of different people coexisting up against each other all the time with a seeming amount of, you know, kind of brash politeness. It seems that people who live here and people that visit here sort of know the dynamic between

the two. You see sort of strange groups of foreign tourists and people from other states, you know, kind of wandering around in awe, somewhat stoned-ish just by the overwhelming nature of New York. And then you see New Yorkers just kind of mildly but aggressively moving through the crowd. There was some, you can feel, not tension, just sort of like, hey, hey, you know what I mean when i'm trying to get by here what are we doing what are we doing huh a little bit of that tomorrow's a day yeah i think

that i'm having a hard time focusing right now because everybody needs to vote and i think most of you who listen to this show uh understand that i i think that uh it's the best shot we have at having any hope. Look, we have a problematic two-party system in this country at this juncture in history, and those two parties are us and them. And that's the way it goes on either side. And the fact that it's so strangely almost evenly split in terms of these poll numbers is disturbing and implies that maybe it's not going to be over on Tuesday. Maybe it could go on for weeks with recounts and weird accusations and conspiracy theories. I don't know, but I know that I hear the word decency a lot. You hear people on TV

saying, you know, let's return to decency. And I think that's a reasonable thing because being decent is not it's not about righteousness. It doesn't mean you're a good person. It just means you behave properly within the context of treating other people with respect. The one fundamental thing that democracy needed to sort of move forward was a certain amount of tolerance. And that was just too much for people. A tolerance of diversity of of potential it just it was too much for too many people to handle and once that you know they they

they ripped that need to tolerate off we've just opened up this portal to the worst fucking behavior of uh and the worst ideas that human beings are are capable of and certainly everybody's capable everybody has it in them to be intolerant and shitty because of their own fear their own insecurities their own lot in life but to have all those things stoked up and to have all this fucking violence and insane hatred it's like, it's so fucking uncomfortable and just goddamn scary. So I hope some movement is made tomorrow in the direction of maybe raining a little bit of that in. I don't know if we're going to get it all back.

I don't know if we ever will. I don't know. Yeah. Honestly, if this country is ever coming back, but it, it would be nice to, uh,

to have a little hope tomorrow that things can move in a direction where decency, tolerance, moral behavior, inclusion, you know, starts to sort of make a little headway. But tomorrow's the day. So do us all a favor, will you?

Vote. There are a few tickets left for my Saturday night show at the Beacon in New York City as part of the New York Comedy Festival. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for the ticket link. That's actually this Saturday, November 10th at 7.30 p.m. And if you're at the Beacon show, you'll have the first chance to buy the new WTF t-shirt, which was designed by Aaron Draplin. We'll have a limited number of those for sale at the Beacon,

and then they'll be going on sale in the merch store. But it is kind of wild to be down here on the Lower East Side. I'm literally very close to Katz's Delicate Test. And it was funny because with all this violent anti-Semitism that is happening around the world and in this country, when I get down here, when I'm on the Lower East Side, I do sort of really connect with American Jewishness, with what I come from, with New Jersey,

with just the whole journey and my sort of weird appreciation at different points in my life of everything that was part of that American Jewish experience. I just had an interesting experience with walking out to go do some comedy spots at the cellar the other night. Some guy comes running out of Katz's Deli. He says, I'm a big fan. I do my own podcast. I want you to be on my podcast. I work at Katz's. Why don't you come in tomorrow? Tomorrow morning, we have breakfast. I can make you like lox eggs, lox eggs and onions and we could talk a little bit. This guy Dave from, I think the podcast is Dopey, it's called.

And so I thought about it. Usually I'm sort of like, really, am I going to do that? But, you know, he sort of got me, you know, I got into that brain. It's like, do I, I'd like to have a reason to go sit in Kat's and you know sit in that sort of timeless vessel of american judaism and cuisine a very specific thing i worked in a deli when i was in college the last jewish deli in boston gordon's deli and uh you know there was there's always been something about the you know old jews that sort of informed my character my comedy it informed the way i think about things from a very young age. Like on Thursday, I'm going to have Buddy Hackett's son on the show. Oh, by the way, today

I'm going to talk to Rita Rudner, another Jewish comedian. But I went, I got up the next day and I went over there and I had some lox eggs and onions and I sat in Katz's, which seems like it hasn't changed in a hundred years. And apparently I thought it wentx eggs and onions, and I sat in Katz's, which seems like it hasn't changed in 100 years. And apparently, I thought it went through some bad periods. But no, it's back, and it's very popular. It's the only place in town where you can get the sort of hand-cut corned beef and pastrami and brisket. And I had a lox eggs and onions. I'm still doing the diet thing, but I really needed to taste the meat.

So we had the cutter give me a little sampling of the brisket, of the corned beef, of the pastrami. And it connects me to something historical and something that is very deep in my identity. There's something about being on the Lower East Side. There's something about being in New York that brings it out of me. You know what I'm saying? I've been doing sets down the village. It's been awesome. I've been seeing my old friends, spent some time with Dave Attell the other night. I saw who was there last night? Me and Todd Berry. Todd Berry wandering the streets. The last two nights, I've walked from the village back down to the Lower East Side with Todd Berry, and it just reminded me that almost 30 years ago, me and Todd Berry had a hard time getting booked in many of the bigger clubs when we were starting out in the city.

And we would wander around the streets just talking about why we couldn't get booked at some of the clubs in the city. 30 years ago. I can't believe it's that long. Man, I must have learned something in 30 years. It's very strange. Especially when you don't have kids. So you can't see your life passing before your eyes in the form of another person growing up. But I see Todd, and we're just kind of wandering around, and it's not even nostalgic.

It's just sort of nice that there are these relationships that you have that you may not maintain, but you know each other for a long time. You just sort of step right back into it. And there we were walking around talking about comedians, talking about clubs, talking about where we're at in our lives and wandering the streets of New York 30 years later, almost 30 years later. So I got this email, and I think it indicates something or it implies something, not even implies.

It just made me think. This subject line is Busy's dad. Hi, Mark. indicates something or it implies some not even implies it just made me think this uh subject line is busy's dad hi mark when you and busy she's talking about uh phillips when you and busy discussed her father on your podcast you started riffing on how engineers can be emotionally aloof i know you aren't stating a hard and fast rule but i just wanted to let you know that my husband who has a phd in nuclear engineering and works as a material scientist, is a man who hugs his father and his son, who rescheduled work so he could coach 17 seasons of his son's various sports, and who cried every time he read certain books to his children, in particular First Tomato by Rosemary Wells. He doesn't talk much about his work, but that's because it is classified. Love the podcast.

And I started thinking about that, about how, you know, when I make general statements like that, which I do. I do. I make general statements about all kinds of different groups of people. They're generally not ethnic groups, aside from Jews, which I am one. But I think that gives me license, but I'm not even sure that is true. But I think that I need to qualify things a little bit because I do make blanket statements about that. And I think that's where people, you know, that's where we get into trouble.

I think that I don't even know where it comes from. Well, actually, I do with the engineer things. You know, we make these assumptions about math nerds or about engineering nerds. And I, you know, certainly I've met some that are socially a little bit awkward or perhaps emotionally detached. But how many really? How many have I really met? How many do I really know?

Yeah, I knew some in high school. I've met some in my life, but we're talking like a handful. And so I make this generalization about engineers and mathematicians because it makes sense. But I think the truth of the matter is if I go deeper, it's because I can never wrap my brain around math. Most of my energy went into being entertaining or to entertaining other people, to being social, to being a comedian. So I probably have a natural kind of envy or insecurity around people who are able to do mathematics and do whatever her PhD in nuclear engineering husband does. I probably wish I could do that, but I know there's part of me that knows there's no way I could do it. I don't have the discipline or the focus. I never did. I never had the interest.

I could do it. I don't have the discipline or the focus. I never did. I never had the interest. I don't have a knack for it. So anytime you have a lack or a shortcoming or a characterological flaw or inability that makes you insecure, why not judge others that have it in a way that makes you superior? Doesn't that seem to be the problem of just about everything that's going on? Isn't that at the core of bullying, of racism, of almost everything? It's there in all of us. There's something there in all of us. There's very few people that are that together, that are that grounded and that self-assured or comfortable in their skin that you can't poke at something in there and get a little bit of hate, get a little bit of shitty envy, get a little bit of hostile feelings, get a little bit of judgment. It's right under the surface apparently

for a lot of people. And where uh where's that coming from is that based on logic or intellect or or facts of any kind no it's based on fear insecurity and uh envy but i think that's you know part of that journey a threatened sense of self how fragile is our sense of self what do you really know about you are you who you think you are this is how i start my day which i am doing right now so rita rudner rita rudner is somebody i remember from you know back when i was starting out she was one of the great comics she was she is she's She's still doing it, and she's still doing it a lot, and she's still doing it well.

A singular voice, and one of the great comics of her generation, and it was amazing and thrilling to get the opportunity to talk to her. Her new comedy special, A Tale of Two Dresses, is now available on digital and on-demand platforms. You can also check out RitaRudner.com to see where she's performing around the United States.

This is my conversation with the amazing Rita Rudner. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong.

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An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. Just to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

How old is your daughter? 16. 16? Mm-hmm. And you, like, were not going to have kids? I couldn't have kids. Uh-huh. I can tell you all this.

I have no secrets, so I can tell you anything. Well, you're telling it to me now. We're rolling. Oh, okay. No, I couldn't have children. Uh-huh. And we tried for a while. Yeah.

And I said to Martin, we'd been married for maybe, you know, we got married. And then we didn't talk about it because I was doing my shows and he was producing shows in England and Australia. Yeah. And we were, I was, we said, you know, we didn't really want to do anything. And I said, you know, I'm getting older here because we got married when I was, I guess, 35 or something. And, or 34. 34 and he said I don't want kids either so then when I'm like around 44 or something he goes let's have kids and I went well you know you should have mentioned this before because it's just not you know so I go

to my doctor and I took a blood test and she said you have a one percent chance of ever getting pregnant and was that because your age or just because oh really. And she said, you have a 1% chance of ever getting pregnant. And was that because of your age or just because? Oh, really? Well, yeah, she said. And so I said, well, I'm not good at math. But 1%, that's not good odds. Yeah, of course. So we started talking about surrogacy.

And I said, I'm not comfortable with that. And you hire somebody and his stuff and her stuff and my stuff is left out right and i you know i need my stuff either no stuff or my stuff or your no it's not going to work like that so uh we we kind of put it on the the back burner and so i'm riding coming back once and he doesn't even know this so i'm coming back. Don't tell me you surprised him and showed up with a child. Yeah, I stole a child. So I'm flying back and next to me on the plane, I'm flying back from New York,

is Ben Stein. I'm talking to Ben Stein. Was this when he was an entertainer or a Republican pundit and speech writer? Oh, it wasn't. I don't, all I knew is that he was in a game show and did commercials. Oh, good.

There you go. So, because it was, well, she's 16, so this must be 17, 18. When he was on Ask Ben's. Yeah, one of the, he was on Comedy Central. Yeah, Take Ben Stein's Money or something. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I'm sitting there, he goes, I can't wait to get back to my son. And I said, he's so fantastic. And I said, so I'm starting to talk about children. Yeah. And he said, adopting a child was one of my favorite things I've ever done. And I said, really, how did you do it? So he explained how he did it. And I made mental notes.

I came back and I said, Martin, this is how you do it. So I called up the lawyer that he recommended, the adoption lawyer. And we got interviewed. And then he did his lawyer thing that he does where he knows how to put things in ads, and people answer them, and we do the thing. And then you set up a little separate phone for when you get the call and you talk to people on the phone. Yeah, you set up a separate phone? Yeah, because it's just like the bat phone.

When the bat phone, it's the bat phone, it's the bat phone. There's one available. Let's see if we can get it. No, it's the person who is pregnant and wants to just see if you can have a conversation. That's how you do it. My brother did it that way too. So you were talking to people who were already about to have babies. Yes. And so this lady called and we had a conversation and she asked us to send her some information.

And Martin, because he's a producer, so he puts together this brochure of who we are and what we are with a big picture of my dog, because our dog is fantastic. We have a big sheepdog, like a mixed-up sheepdog, who's in my act. A DVD? It would have been a DVD if he could have done it. So he does this magnificent presentation. We got along great. And we took care of her. It was an open thing.

And we took her to the doctor. And we helped her. We did everything. And we have a lovely girl who's 16 years old now. She's fantastic. That's great. Yeah, my brother did three kids that way. Ah.

And do you have a relationship with the mother still? Or does she? No, she wanted to go on her way and do her thing. And we didn't hide. I mean, I'm not hidden. I have a Facebook page. She can contact me at any time. And your daughter knows?

Oh, yeah. From the beginning of time. I got into a little problem recently from a couple of people, adoptive parents. recently from a couple of people, adoptive parents, when I asked someone who was adopted if he has any relationship with his real parents, and they got very upset. Yeah, you know, people say that they don't mean anything by it. No, no, but I guess I can see how it would be sort of insulting in a way. You know what?

There's so many other things I can be insulting. People have said that to me all the time. What do I care? I know who I am. Right, but you're the real parent. Yeah. I'm there. I'm doing vocab with her do I care? I know who I am. Right. But you're the real parent. Yeah. I'm there. I'm doing vocab with her every night.

I know who I am. Yeah. She got 100 last week, by the way. Oh, congratulations. Not to brag, yeah. That's very nice. Well, you know, it's really great to see you because I've known who you are for a long time. Well, I've been around a really long time.

I know, but you were like, you're a big comedian. No. People say, I say, I'm going to do your show. And they go, why you were like, you're a big comedian. No, you're very, people say, I say I'm going to do your show and they go, why does he want to talk to you? No.

He's in and you're out. That is not true. No one said that. I mean, I still, there is, I try. Well,

I can see when I listen to you, you love comedy. Yeah. And I love comedy. I was in it. I know. We live in it. But I mean,

I am steeped in comedy as you are steeped in comedy. Like you say, we're lifers. That's right. And I just, you know steeped in comedy as you are steeped in comedy. Like you say, we're lifers. That's right. And I just, you know, that's who I am. I never did comedy where I said, you know, I mean, there were always people in the clubs who said, I'm a lawyer, but I'm doing comedy. I'm this and you have to say all in.

Yeah. So I'm all in. And I can't, I have a hard time with people who still talk about their day jobs in their act. No, you can't have a day job. You have to spend the day trying to write jokes and then not coming up with something. That's right. That's how you have to do it.

And then at the end, you have two words in your notebook, and then you go and you try to make something of them. The two words or the one thought. Shrapnel. All I got is shrapnel today. I've got to try to make a joke about that. Yeah, I still carry around the notebook. I have the notebook, too. Yeah. And I don't write it on my phone. I don got is shrapnel today. I got to try to make a joke about that. Yeah. I know the feel. I still carry around the notebook. I have the notebook too. Yeah.

And I don't write it on my phone. I don't write it on the computer. I just compulsively. You know what? I've started phoning, doing the phone. But do you check it? I mean, I used to, what, the notepad thing on the phone? Yeah.

Because... Or do you talk into it? No, I can't talk. I'll never find myself talking again. Yeah. I have a little notepad, but I accidentally erased it because I pressed something. Yes. Right, that's the problem.

And Martin had to, because he does things like that, and he had to get it back through all whatever he did. So now I do double. I have the phone, and I put it in a notebook. Oh, well, good. So you got backup. Yeah. And let's go back, because we're Jews, right?

All Jews, yeah. And today's Yom Kippur. We're bad Jews. Yeah, we're bad news. Excellent Yeah, where did you like grow up? Where was your Jewishness? Well, I grew up in Miami, Florida. Really? Yeah people grow up in Miami born in Miami You're both your parents were Miami people. No, they're from New York. So they went to Miami My father said I'm never never going to be cold again. And he said, and he didn't like his brother's wife who lived in California. Yeah. So he went to Florida.

And that's where, did he retire there or he worked there? He was a lawyer. In Florida. Yeah, he was a lawyer in Florida. And do you have siblings? No, just me. Oh, really? And my mom was housewife.

Yeah. And my mother was kind of religious. And my father was too lazy to be religious because he was a very lazy person. Like what kind of? Like kosher kind of? No. Just, you know, with a lot of this and hard-boiled eggs and Passover. Oh, you did the Shabbat candles and whatnot?

Only when we went to our Aunt Bidi's and Uncle Moe's. Bidi and Moe. Bidi and Moe. Yeah. But what happened was my mother got very sick and she died and she was sick most of my life and she died when I was 13. Oh, that's terrible. I know it wasn't good. So my father, who was very lazy, he looked over here and went, oh, there's a wife. And he married her because he didn't want to look anymore. How was that one? Well, she was bad and she wasn't Jewish. And then

we had seven Christmas trees. She didn't like me. Oh. And she wanted to like start a whole family and didn't want me there. Did they? No. Oh. Because they should have discussed that before he said, oh, look, there's a wife over there. Right.

He should have said, okay, let's discuss. But he didn't because he's lazy. Yeah. So I left home when I was 15. 15? Yeah. I moved out. What year was that?

I think 1857. Wow. Things were different then. Yeah. Yeah. I moved out. What year was that? I think 1857. Wow. Things were different then. Yeah. No, but was it like the 70s? I was 15. I just turned 65. Congratulations.

So thank you. I go to old lady Disneyland now. I can go on all the e-ticket machines. Oh, that's very nice. Yes. Cat scans, MRIs, you name it. Early bird specials. Yes.

Early bird specials. That's me. So whenever that was, because I can't lie about my age because the internet is there. No, that's fine. But I'm just curious about like, you know, a 15-year-old girl departing. I know, isn't that weird? Like, was it the 70s? It must have been the 70s.

Well, I was born in 1953 and I was 15. So do the math because I'm not good at math. So 68. So it was a very exciting time. I guess. I mean, did you run away? No, I took a plane. He bought me a ticket.

Oh, he wanted you out. He was like, you seem good enough to go. He said, okay. With family? No. Really? No. Just here you go.

I got it. This one doesn't like you. You got to leave. Well, she preferred me that I shouldn't be there. And I wanted to be a dancer on Broadway. So you went to New York at 15 in 1968 by yourself? Yes. And I moved into the Barbizon Hotel for Women.

What is that? It was a hotel. Do you like this story or not? Love it. Okay, because I don't want to make a bad story for you because you're a very good person. So they had little rooms and my dad subsidized me until I got a job when I got... Well, that was big of him. He threw you out of the house and he decided he'd carry your weight for a little while.

What a nice guy. Well, it was cheaper than college, you know. I thought he was saving money. Yeah, he said, this is a bargain here. So I graduated high school. I skipped 11th grade. I did. I just did 12th grade.

I said, I don't want to bother with 11th grade. I took extra courses in the summer. You really wanted out of Florida. She hated me. She just did 12th grade. I said, I don't want to bother with 11th grade. I took extra courses in the summer. You really wanted out of Florida. She hated me. She just was a terrible- Did he stay married to her? Until she died too, yes. No kidding.

Yeah, of the same thing my mother died of. So then he didn't want to get married anymore. But anyway, she was a lunatic. Right. And so I wanted to be a dancer. I was already a pretty good dancer, I have to tell you. Now, just real quick, in retrospect, given that childhood and given that relationship, do you think it affected you psychologically?

Absolutely. How? How did you track it? Do you have abandonment things? No. I don't know. There are different ways you can use neuroses. Right.

And I chose a good way to use what i the way i chose and it was wasn't a conscious decision it was to keep myself busy yeah and tired yeah and i didn't want to deal yeah tired is exhaust yourself with anxiety that's what i did no listen what i did so i was so upset about my mother and the things, and it was just awful, and this horrible woman living in my house who tore down my mother's wallpaper and putting furniture in, and I just had to get away. So I decided to be a dancer on Broadway. But tell me about Barbizon, this hotel.

Why is it for women? Was it safer for women? It was only for women. Yeah, only women were allowed. Was it an entertainment thing? It was for old divorcees and young girls. Women in transition. Or old

ladies who never got married. That's transitioning to something. What do you call the people who never get married? Spinsters? Yeah. Is that still a real term? I don't know. Maybe somebody's going to yell at me for doing that. But anyway, so

it was a little room with the bathrooms down the hall. Oh, hall bathroom. And yeah, and bathtub is, you know, you had to make a reservation, get in the bathtub. And you're 15. Yeah. And there's other 15-year-olds there? There was one other 16-year-old who was on scholarship with the New York City Ballet because those are the other kinds of people who were in,

because that's ballerinas. They leave home very early to go study in New York. And their parents are okay. I guess it's okay. I don't know. It just sounds crazy. It is crazy. I would never let my daughter do this.

But you had no, right. So you had no leads? No, I just knew that I wanted to be a dancer on Broadway. And you could dance already? Yeah, I've been taking ballet, tap, jazz, acrobatic since I was four. Well, you look like a dancer. Well, thank you. I've always been.

I love dancing, and that's all I wanted to do. But what I did was I exhausted. I would take ballet in the morning. I would take tap in the afternoon. I would take jazz at night. I would go out to she shows. I would do that. And I would just.

So I exhausted myself. And then I got my first job when I was 16. Yeah. On the National Company of Zorba. i was a professional who was zorba um john rate was zorba and chita rivera was the lead and i went on tour for nine months with this company and i was 16 in all over the country all over the country yeah and you were one of the dancing girls i was the the swing girl, and I didn't know what that meant. I wasn't equity when I auditioned, so I needed to get into the union because I went to an open call where thousands of people, and I was so excited.

And they said, you're the swing girl. And I actually thought that I had a rope that I used to swing in on, but I didn't know. I said, okay, but I learned everybody's parts, which was great practice and preparation for learning things. It's so amazing to me that in show business, and I think it still happens today, that wanting to be a dancer was not, it was equally as irrational as any decision to get into show business, but it was a profession. Yeah. And it still seems to be a profession.

It is a profession. What do you mean, seems? It's a profession. Well, I just mean, because I'm saying that your occupational possibilities are somewhat limited absolutely people in fact i had an aunt who said um you're crazy to let your daughter do this and because what are you gonna do you gotta be in a musical you gotta be in a traveling show you gotta be a rockette i mean you know sometimes you see the you know dancers the odds were so against me even more than comedy almost more than any other well comedy was pretty bad too right so but but anyway i just to do

briefly i did six broadway shows i was on broadway for 10 years and what now your experience with that um like was it thrilling was it the best thing that you ever did oh i loved it and you work with great people what are some of the people you work with in dancing? Well, I... Gina Rivera? Yeah, Gower Champion. I did Mac and Mabel from the beginning with David Merrick and Gower Champion. Oh, wow.

And I did Follies on Broadway with Michael Bennett and Hal Prince. And Annie on Broadway with Peter Gennaro, Martin Shornan. And let's see what other shows I did. Magic Show, Grover Dale, Stephen Schwartz. The Magic Show? Yeah. With Doug Henning? Well, he wasn't in it when I was in it.

No? No, but Joe Ebaldo was in it, who was a really nice and fabulous guy. And did you get to see the country when you toured as a 16-year-old? Yeah, I saw the whole country, and I'd never been anywhere. Were you traveling on a bus? We plane. It was a national tour. It wasn't a bus and truck.

So we did planes. And because I was so young, it was almost as if I had 20 parents looking out for me. That's good. Was there one creepy uncle? No. It wasn't any creepy. But what I did, I didn't have a lot of people who wanted to talk to me. So I adopted a stray dog.

And her name was, I named her Agatha. And she was, again, a huge sheepdog. And I took her on the road on the plains. And I had a big crate. I don't know. Was it another sheepdog? I like hairy dogs, yeah. I grew up with the old English sheepdogs.

Well, she wasn't a real, she was a combination Afghan, they said. Afghan and poodle and something else. But she was just adorable so were you like uh did you hit a wall or what you know why did you not keep dancing i was in my sixth broadway show yeah and i'd been on broadway for 10 years 10 years yeah and you were making a living you had your equity i did really well i was doing commercials all the time and i did industrial shows right i was on broadway i was doing commercials all the time, and I did industrial shows, and I was on Broadway. Industrial shows, like trade shows?

Yeah. You would dance for- The Continental, the Comet, and the New Marquis, the Midsize Montego, and the Sexy Capri, and then there's the Cougar and the Great Mark III, more kinds of cars for more kinds of people. It doesn't leave you. It doesn't go away. No, it doesn't go away.

Everything else goes away, but that's not going anywhere. That's not going anywhere. I danced about cheese, about clocks. Yeah. Yeah, I knew how to make a living. So I was a singing waitress. I was a coachette girl. You got it.

After? When were you a singing waitress? Oh, you know, in between jobs. You got to figure it out. Oh, I see. Yeah. And it's funny because people have this vision of me. I think because I wear a dress and I stand up straight because I was in that I had an easy time.

Oh, no. You know, and they even say it in sometimes in comedy when I do things like who writes your material? Yeah, I do. Yeah. What do you mean? Yeah. I have a guy in the back sitting there with a pencil. Well, I think some people like, you know, as as we both know that there comics, as they get older, do hire people to write for them. Yes, that's true. However, those are people, I think, who have to produce more material than I have to produce. Right. Because if you're on TV every night and the world is changing every minute. I mean, like Jimmy Walker, people like Ron White's got a bunch of guys writing for him.

I mean, I guess so. I mean, but it's still sort of, I respected a great deal that you write your own stuff. I couldn't say it. And people say, oh, here's a joke. You can say, no, I can't say it unless I think of it. But even people that know you, I mean, you're very unique and you're very stylized. There's no one that's come up to you and said, like, you know, I get your voice. Look at these bits.

They've tried. And I read what they write and I go, I I can't say, you know, why would I? It's not me. No, it's got to come from something in my brain. So, okay. So, I'm 27. I'm in Annie on Broadway. And I'm thinking.

Oh, that's when, that's how, that's. Yeah. But like, but like during these times, like, I mean, New York was a very exciting sort of menacing, you know, sexy, drug ridden place in the 70s. And you managed to avoid all that? There's nothing in my makeup that would go that way. I don't know why. It's not a conscious decision.

Again, I just- Not a party girl. No. I like being home. I like reading. I like watching TV. I like being with one friend. I like having one boyfriend.

It's just not who I am. But you saw it. You must have seen what was happening. It was downstairs. I stayed upstairs. It's true. who I am. But you saw it. You must have seen what was happening. It was downstairs. Oh, okay. I stayed upstairs. It's true. So, I mean, catch your rising star.

Wait, that's, but wait, we didn't get there yet. Oh, I'm sorry. You're an Annie. But we only have a limited amount of time. No, I can keep you here as long as you will. Oh, good. I don't want to go over my allotted time. There's no allotted time.

Okay. But so you're an Annie? Yeah. And I'm sitting there and I'm, because I really, even though I went to school and I legally have a high school, you know, graduation certificate, I felt I was not educated. So I used to read the New York Times every day. Sure. That was my education. How did that go?

It's hard sometimes, isn't it? No, but I would like to say there's got to be something interesting in every section of this paper and I can learn something from it. Yeah, but do you find like even when if I read about politics, especially about like legal stuff, like you know, court decisions and stuff, I sometimes cannot figure out whether it's good or bad. Like I don't know the language.

I skip over that bit. You just skip over it and you go, what can I get out of what's written here? So I would, you know, because I said I shouldn't just look at the arts and entertainment section. I should look at other things. Yeah, travel. Anything. There could be like a place.

I'm not saying I read the whole thing. International. Yes. Tell me when you're finished. I'm done. Okay. But it's true. So I said, I'm going to look at an article or two from each section.

So I'm sitting there. It's between shows and Annie., I'm going to look at an article or two from each section. So I'm sitting there. It's between shows and Annie. And I'm looking at the business section. And I read an article about soft soap, which is just being introduced into the market. Soft soap? Soft soap. This kind you squirt? Yes. And it had never been introduced before.

And you were trying to figure out a dance number for it? Yeah, soft soap. I was writing a soft soap song. So I'm going, well, let's see. They say you can either, this is the way you introduce a new product into the market. You can either make the same product and try to make it better, or you can create a new product that has its own individuality. So we decided with soft soap, there wasn't a soft soap on the market, and we were going to go in there, and it was a huge success. The hand soap? Instead of making a bar soap. It was the first soft soap. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I said, well, let's see. There are millions of singers and dancers and actresses. And there are only two female comedians that I'm aware of, which were Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller. So if I can be unique in a female comedic voice, maybe I can get noticed more than if I can turn and kick.

So this all hinged on the soft soap catharsis? Yeah, yeah, in the business section of the New York Times. So I said, well, let me try to write jokes. Were you a fan? I was like a dormant comedy fan. But why out of everything at that moment when you're reading that soap? Because I tried everything else. I wasn't getting, you know, I didn't have a boyfriend at that time.

I didn't have any money at that time. I was just like making a living on, I said, I've got to wait for someone to write a show, to cast me. I've got to be what they want. The show has to succeed. Somebody has to come to, these are too many obstacles.

Did you go to comedy clubs? Never before. Okay, so you, Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers. I just saw them on Merv Griffin. clubs? Never before. Okay. So, okay. So, Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers. I just saw them on Merv Griffin. Right. Oh, yeah. Merv Griffin, sure.

Because you were home a lot watching TV. Well, because I worked at night. Right. And so, I said, let's try to go. So, I started going to comedy clubs. Which ones were around then? The improv. The improv.

Because Annie was on 50th Street and I would walk down on 8th Avenue to go to the improv. 44th, right? Yeah, 44th. And Bud was still there? No, Silver was there. Oh, Bud was already gone? Yeah. Silver was there and Chris Albrecht.

That's always a party. Oh, yeah. Silver is always exciting. Silver, I have good Silver stories. She's still around. Really? Yeah. You want me to tell me?

I can do it quickly. No, we'll stay in the evolution. Oh, it's going to be so long. It's not going to be long. People are going to find it. Are you sure? No, this is great. You're already Oh, it's going to be so long. It's not going to be long. People are going to find it in. But are you sure? No, this is great. You're already interesting.

Okay. It's a roller coaster. We're excited. We're on the Rita Rudner ride. So I go and I say, I start to look at some comedians. And I remember I talked to, he won't remember this, but Steve Middleman. I talked to Steve Middleman. Steve Middleman with the no chin guy.

Yeah. Yeah. I was a male model. I modeled socks. no chin guy. Yeah. I was a male model. I modeled socks.

So I go, so I talked to Steve Elliman and I say, how much is it to write comedy, to buy comedy material? Because I'd never written a joke. He said,

well, it's going to be $3,000 for five minutes. Oh, he was going to write for you. Yeah. And $3,000 for five minutes and there's no guarantee

it'll work. And I said, oh my gosh, I got to learn how to write comedy. I don't have $3,000 and there's no guarantee it's going to work. This is a bad deal. Yeah.

So. But like real quick though, or not even quick. So, so when you start going the improv, you remember you met Steve Middleman, but like who else was going on? Did you see other women? Okay. Gilbert. Gilbert.

Judy Orbach, who was a singer. This is at the original improv. Yeah. Yeah. The 44th Street. Beautiful. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. In the little room. The 44th Street. Beautiful, yeah. Oh, yeah. Rich, he wrote Sniglets.

Oh, yeah, Rich Scheidner. No, no, no. Rick Hall. Rich Hall. Yeah. And Rick Scheidner. Scheidner, yeah. And Donna Murphy, who's on Broadway now, was a singer.

Yeah. And that's when they had a variety format still? They did have some singers still? They had some singers, yeah. And this is like 1980? I guess. Yeah yeah about 1980 81 somewhere there and um so i sit there and i go okay let's try and write jokes did you think about dancing too or doing a musical no i want to leave leave that behind i did that i did that since i was four

right it's over and i was i was an okay singer but i would listen to singers audition on Broadway and not get jobs, and they were fabulous. Yeah. And I would see actors, and they were fantastic. They wouldn't get work. I said, I've got to get, there has to be better odds than this. Yeah. My heavens. Right.

So, um. So, Middleman's offer did not pique your interest? No. I said, no, that's not happening. So, I said, how do you learn to write jokes? So, I said, who do I like? And I liked Woody Allen. Yeah.

Because I loved his movies movies Take the Money and Run and he always made me laugh. Right. He had this album. That one album. The double album. That's it. I shot a moose.

Oh, so I, well, I took that album and I had a piece of paper and I diagrammed every joke about where the laugh was and how they were structured. why they were laughing and then the structure,

how the two thoughts came together and what, you know, and I just did that because I lived across from the Lincoln Center Library. Oh, yeah. So you'd sit there and do that? Well, then I could take all the, because they had albums. Oh, right. You could check the records out and sit there with the headphones or at home.

But I went. So then I said, okay, I'm going to do this. I said, I'll put myself through comedy school. So then I went to, there was the Museum of Broadcasting, which had just started up. Oh, that's great. You go rent them. And then you sit in the thing. So I said, who else did my mom like?

My mom liked Jack Benny. Right. So I said, okay, let's look at Jack Benny because I'm not an aggressive person. I'm like a laid back kind of a shy person. So it was meaningless for me, though you know i became friends with joan rivers and phyllis diller and i know they're wonderful women yeah but their personalities were very aggressive yeah and i was an introverted jewish girl yeah so i decided to listen to introvert introverted jewish men yeah yeah so that's how I started. With Jack Benny, Woody Allen. Yes.

Who else? It was, oh, Jack Benny, and he used to have a friend, and they used to go. George Burns? Well, it was George Burns, and I met him, and I did his 90th birthday party, and that was fun. But, no, there was another guy. Fred Allen. Fred Allen. You went way back.

Oh, yeah. Why not? And then, because I lived in New York, and at that point, they had all these great comedic film festivals. What about Gracie? Gracie? I liked Gracie Allen. I did. But I couldn't really relate to her. The the the degree of ditsiness, vapidity. Is that a word? Right. Yeah. I think so. I made up a word. I couldn't relate. And somehow people compare me to that anyway. They're not listening. But I just didn't really get that. Anyway, I liked her. So the film festival?

So then I said, look at all these things I can learn from. And I started going to the Preston Sturgis Film Festivals and the Jacques Tati and Buster Keaton. Wow. And Charlie Chaplin. And it was just fantastic. It was like a whole world of a whole school I could go to every day. You built a curriculum for yourself. I did.

I went to my own. And more importantly, I kept my mind busy so I wasn't thinking about my mother and my horrible time that I had. Sadness. Yeah. So instead of exhausting my body, I decided to exhaust my mind. Sure.

And at this point, you're like, what, in your 20s, late 20s? Yeah, late 20s. I changed careers. Yeah. But I love it, though. Do you find that all that stuff with the intent of doing stand-up, that taking in Chaplin and Keaton and Jacques T tati do you feel like that informed you i hope so how could it not how could it not i mean i can't like put my finger on it and

say oh this is this and you know this is where it came together but i think it all does i even started reading books about um uh sigmund fre Freud's lessons in wisdom. Relation to the unconscious? Yes. So you're getting into the science of it? I tried, and a lot of it I didn't get, and some of the jokes that he said I didn't think were funny, but I said maybe something will go in. What about Groucho?

I like Groucho, but again, he was a different personality. Yeah, sure. He was a much more aggressive personality. personality yeah sure he was a much more aggressive personality so but but ultimately the the bottom line is the joke writing structure was really the ticket yeah yeah and i sit there and i go and um where is the laugh why do people laugh i mean that's where i started and then i had such good friends i still have really great friends from my all of my years in theater and and and everything miami yeah and i would leave messages is this funny is this a joke so you haven't gone on yet but you're you're

driving your friends crazy oh yeah that's what we do oh all the time yeah how about this is this anything what if i said this and my friends are not yet reading you know but uh eventually i got to a joke and then i got to another joke and then it kept going. You remember your first joke? Absolutely. You do? What was it? It was, I broke up with my boyfriend because he wanted to get married and I didn't want him to. That was my first joke. See, it still works. And it ends on a letter, a word with two letters in it.

And it's a sharp sound. And I was so excited. I thought of a joke. I thought of a joke. He wanted to get married and I didn't want him to? Yes. Yeah, it's a sharp sound. And I was so excited. I thought of a joke. I thought of a joke. He wanted to get married and I didn't want him to? Yes. Yeah, it's a Rita Rudner joke. Yeah, and that was my first joke joke. So when did you first go on?

How did that happen? Well, I sat and, you know, I found out that auditions were Mondays. At the improv. At the improv. And people would get there early and bring chairs and books and things. Oh, really? Yeah, and sit there all day to get a chance to audition. Yeah.

For silver. Yeah. And the first time I sat there and I didn't get in, and then I said, okay, I've got to get there earlier next Monday or whatever it was, and I sat on the street. They didn't take numbers. You actually had to wait on line. And there was a line, Catch a Rising Star, they took numbers. Had the numbers, yeah, I remember. Oh, I first tried Catch a Rising Star

when I was in Annie with my friend who was a singer and we got a number and we were on at 2 a.m. and we did a singing thing and that didn't work at all. Who was the guy in charge of those numbers then? Mark something. I remember Mark who was very hungover all the time. I can't remember his name. Finally, I get into the improv and... I remember Mark, who was very hungover all the time. I can't remember his name. Right.

Finally, I get into the improv. Well, you got three minutes? Three minutes. And I think I had three minutes of material. Yeah. And Chris Albrecht passed me and said I could hang out and watch. So Albrecht was the manager. Yeah.

And I think he was like the manager bartender. Yeah. And then he went on to become... Now he's the head of... Epics or no, stars. First he was the head of HBO, now he's the head of stars. Right. But he was very supportive of me.

And he was the manager and he passed me and said I could hang out. He felt I had potential. So I would watch the people every night and say, why is this funny tonight? And why are you getting the most out of? There was a comedian called Ronnie Shakes. Sure. Passed away. I loved Ronnie Shakes so much. And he had very structured jokes and they were easier for me to figure out. He was a great comic, that guy. Wasn't he? I loved him. I still quote his jokes all the time. There was another very funny comedian called guy. He wasn't. I loved him. I still quote his jokes all the time. There was another very funny comedian called John DeBellis.

DeBellis. Yeah, who became a comedy writer. And I liked his jokes. And I could take different things. But the most important thing, I just thought, the first time I got up on stage, I was funny between jokes. Right, right. On purpose?

No. As a reaction? As a reaction to them not laughing to what I had said. And I was funny about it. I said, why didn't you laugh at that? I thought that was so funny. You said that? Yeah.

And I said, well, let me try this one and see if you'll laugh at this. Very honest. Yeah. Well, that was my, I like to be honest. So I guess that's why Chrisris thought it was funny it wasn't because i was writing anything at that point right but i could just see you just didn't understand why what did why what how is this not working this is supposed to be so good and i had it in my head and it's not doing well that's better doing that than like just falling into yourself and no and

my first heckler said why don't't you get a job or something? And I said, well, I don't even have a response to that because I'm so new with this. So come back later another time and maybe I can answer with something very, very witty. How'd that do? It was good. Yeah. But anyway, so then I get and then there's another comedian, a female comedian called Carol Siskind. I know Carol.

Yes. Who is a very funny comedian. She's still around. I don't think she does stand up anymore. Well, she was still very good friends with Silver. Yeah. And I just could not get on at the improv. And Silver just hated me.

And she came over to me once and said, I can't put you on anymore because of your voice. And I said, what do you mean? Oh, she's one to talk. I said, what do you mean? She, she's one to talk. I said, what do you mean? She said, you have a bad comedy voice. And unless you go take voice lessons and you can't. So I said, well, the only problem I have, Silver, is people are laughing at what, because I was getting better.

Yeah. And people are laughing at what I was, because I also went to all the places where they had microphones and they were restaurants and the bars, open mics, everywhere. So one night Bill Maher is there and he said, you know, you're really funny and Silver is really being mean to you. Come over to Catch a Rising Star and I will put you on. This is like 82? Yeah.

Yeah. So Bill was the first one. He still says, I was the one. So he let me on at catch a rising star and then i stopped going to the improv because i couldn't take the abuse anymore yeah oh yeah i mean silver was rough because when i started in when i was in new york in the late 80s you know it was sort of the last days of that place and she was still you know pretty tough i mean she liked me but you know you never knew what you're gonna get she didn She didn't like me. One little bit. It's funny about Bill Maher because Bill Maher, with comics, is pretty loyal and a good audience.

Oh, he's such a good laugher. Yeah. He really likes it. It's a rare thing after a certain point with comics, but he loves to laugh. He does. If he likes a comic, he'll laugh. He'll sit there and laugh. Yeah.

I haven't seen him for a really, really long time. Oh, really? But we used to hang out all the time in the days. So Catch Rising Star, tell me about that because that was the club. It was. But did you do Dangerfields and stuff? Yeah, Dangerfields too, yeah. Who was hosting then?

Rodney gave me my first break when I was on Rodney Dangerfield's Young Comedian special. Oh, you were on the big one in 85, right? With Sam Kinison and Saget and Louis. Yeah, and I was on that one. Louis Anderson. Yeah. Who I just saw the other night. Yeah.

It was like he's had this career resurgence. I know, it's amazing. He's so thrilled. He's such a sweet guy. Yes, we've been friends forever. I imagine you would like his work because he's very- We work together a lot. We're on the road together a lot, yeah.

Very Jack Benny. Yes, exactly. So at that time, Catch a Rising Star, so is that the era of Larry David, Mark Schiff, or Mark Schiff's the comic strip? Who was going? Oh, Mark Schiff was there all the time. Jerry Seinfeld, Bill Maher, Ronnie Shakes, Pat Benatar.

In fact, I was on the first, maybe this was before Ronnie Dangerfield, I was on one with Andy Kaufman. It was the Catch a Rising Star 10th Anniversary Special. Oh, wow. And they gave me three or four minutes as introducing the new young comedian, Rita Rudner, even though I wasn't so young

because I already had a different career. But it was a very big thing that I was supposed to go on after Andy Kaufman. Yeah. And the producer came in. Her name was Pat. And she said, I'm going to sneak you on before Andy because I don't know what the audience is going to be like after Andy Kaufman. Yeah.

And she let me go on before Andy. And I did really well. And it's true. If I would have gone on after Andy Kaufman because he did a big thing with somebody heckling him from the audience. And the audience didn't know if it was real or not. And everybody became unsettled because that was what he did. So, anyway, I was very lucky. Did you, like, who were you hanging out with?

Who were your pals? My big pal was a very, very funny woman named Marjorie Gross. Oh, I don't know if I know her. Oh, the funny, she was my first writing partner. I just loved her. She passed away too. It's not sad. And we would write together all the time.

Fred Stoller. Stoller's around. Yeah, I used to write with Stoller. I see Stoller. Do you talk to Stoller? No, because I'm a mother and a wife and I live in Las Vegas. I have a whole different thing where I am now. Sure, of course.

But I used to hang out a lot with Bill. Yeah. And I was just like one of the guys. Anyone who had a joke book, Gilbert. Yeah. We would just sit there with our joke books all the time. At the diner or something no I never went to the diner because I always went from club to club to club to club

right I would never hang out no two at the morning two in the morning diner no I had to go back I had to be a ballet class by 10 you were still doing that yeah I just got a ballet class by 10 but it was when you look back on it wasn't it was it like when I think about my crew, who I started with, those were great times. Oh, I loved it. Are you kidding? My first job with Jerry Stanley. And we would go out and we would be in the car. I said it was always two comedians who were funny and then the comedian who wasn't good but who had the car.

Right. Yeah. Driving to Jersey or whatever. Driving to Jersey, getting lost and people throwing peanuts at me, making twenty five dollars. I loved it. Did you feel like at that time you would get flack or a negative reaction because you were a woman? I never really thought about it. I just wanted to write a good joke. Right. So and at the time you were starting out, did you feel that women were better represented or starting to get better represented? Because like when you went into it, you were like, there's no women doing this.

There's still very few. Right. Of course. You know, and also I didn't really concentrate on, am I a woman? Am I a man? I wanted to do jokes that would work whether I would. That's one of the things I noticed about Woody Allen. He did jokes that would work whether you were a woman or a man.

Yeah. So I just wanted to write good jokes. Right. whether you were a woman or a man. Yeah, the jokes were their own thing. The jokes, I just wanted to write good jokes. Right, so you weren't a rambly, like, let's explore kind of person. You kept it tight. I would love to be one of those, but I can't do it. I tried.

Jerry Seinfeld used to tell me, Rita, you're too compact. You're going to have to write too many jokes because you're not leaving any air. And I said, well, I try to leave air, but no one's laughing at the air. Yeah, you have to make a much longer joke about nothing. I know, and I tried, and I just, I envy people who could do that, but I couldn't do it. But, you know, your style is more enviable.

You watch somebody like, who are you watching? I was just watching someone the other night that when you do, like, jokes, like one-liners, like, you know, either Rodney style or however you're going to go. You know, the fact that you can write so many of them, if you can fill an hour with that, it's much more impressive than me rambling on for 11 minutes about my cats. Yeah, but it's that's a real talent, too. Right. Because I you know, that's something that I would aspire to do. George Carlin could do it really well.

And he could expound on something and just make it bigger and bigger and bigger. And I don't have that personality. I've tried in my newest special, the one that I just did. Tale of Two Dresses? Yeah, to do jokes that have more words in them. But are they more personal? They're always personal. I talk about raising a 16-year-old daughter

and being married for 30 years and getting older and my hard time that all older people have with the social media things that are going on. So I have to talk about things that are relevant and that's what I talk about. And you always did that, really, do you think? Yeah, when I was dating, I was single and I used to talk about things that are relevant, and that's what I talk about. And you always did that, really, do you think? Yeah, when I was dating, you know, I was single, and I used to talk about boyfriends.

And I, you know, I used to say, I remember I had one boyfriend who broke up with me because he didn't want to get involved. And I said, but I already have a joke about that. You know, I would like you to make up something else because this isn't helping my career. So there was your joke. So there was my joke, and I i had to you have to go along i can't make jokes about anything else except what's happening in my life how many comics did you date before you stopped that one who know that was enough of that which one uh he passed away everybody i everybody i touch yeah so I can't even say.

But only one. Okay, so you did the... Now, did you see Andy a lot? Andy Kaufman? Yeah. No. So he was already sort of out of it by the time you were in. But like, Emo was around, right?

Oh, Emo and I. I was on the road with Emo. That's what I kind of remember. Emo and Larry Bud Melman and I went on a bus and truck tour of colleges. It was the greatest thing I've ever done. Larry Bud Melman was always disconcerting to me. He was. I loved Larry Bud.

He would always, we were in the bus and we would be driving from one place to another. And every time we'd pass a Del Taco, he would want to go there and go, Mexicans nice. And we said, we don't want Mexican Larry Bud. And then to go there and go, Mexican's nice. And we said, we don't want Mexican, Larry, but then Emo would be stealing the coleslaw. He would have coleslaw wherever we went. Living on the edge, you guys. It was really fun. And Emo, because I was an exerciseaholic. So Emo and I used to swim. We used to, when we were in a hotel, we were having swimsuits. And he used to get out of the pool and say, Rita, I don't want to look too muscular because it won't go with my act. Am I looking muscular?

I said, no, you're fine, Emo. No one's going to mistake you for Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know, he's returned back to the character. Oh, has he? Yeah, because he went through about a decade there where he wasn't, but now he's grown the hair out again and he looks. Okay, want to hear my favorite Emo joke? Yeah.

It always makes me laugh. I bought some, wait, I got some new underwear today. Well, new to me. Isn't that a great joke That's not a great joke. It's a good joke. Okay, here's my favorite Larry David joke, because he had the best opening joke. He was in the clubs, too, when I was there. He used to go on stage.

You know how Larry David works. I'd like to say a word about good-looking people. We're not well-liked. Those are my favorite jokes. Aren't these great jokes? Did you see him lose his mind a couple of times on stage? Oh, yeah. He would berate the audience.

All the time. Oh, and then Richard, there was another guy, Richard, who would berate the audience. He was really funny, though. I can't remember his last name. Not Bells. No, not Bells. Anyway, he used to go. The audience wouldn't laugh, and he used to go, there's nothing lower than an audience.

It goes crayfish audience. And he would leave. Wasn't that the best about being a comic back then before you had to be worried about people tweeting about or whatever? I know. They would lose their mind sometimes. The thing that I would love for my daughter, because it's the thing that I've always been lucky enough to have, was something I love to do. I loved Broadway when I was on Broadway and I love comedy when I'm doing comedies. And if you have something you love to do, I loved Broadway when I was on Broadway and I love comedy when I'm doing comedies and if you have something you love to do I think you're gonna be okay it's

amazing like when you're a comic you you don't think about it anymore but how much time you spend in those rooms watching people go do that just stand up there yeah like hours and hours that's your your education but it's also great, especially if you like watching certain people. But like my husband, because he sees me do these acts. But he doesn't come with me a lot. But if he does, the only time he'll laugh is if I say a joke that doesn't work. If I say a new joke. Comics are like that.

Yeah, and he'll just sit there and go, heh, heh. Yeah, it's not even a real laugh. It's like an acknowledgement. Oh, I love that. I was on the road a lot with Dennis Miller. He said, hey, Rita, you going to do the one about the holistic dry cleaner tonight? Ha, ha, ha, ha. I Oh, I love that. I used to, I was on the road a lot with Dennis Miller. He said, hey, really? You going to do the one about the holistic dry cleaner tonight? Ha, ha, ha, ha.

I said, no, Dennis. Thank you for reminding me. Because it was bombed? Oh, bombed badly. I don't even know what it was. What was it? I can't remember. Oh, you can't.

No. All right. Something about going to a holistic dry cleaner. I thought that was funny in itself. And the audience just stared at me like I was from Mars. So in the 80s, you were like a big act. I tried to be. Like in terms of on the road.

Like when you did the tour with Louis Anderson, was that like the two of you co-headlining kind of thing? Yeah. The same with Dennis? Yeah. Right. Because I remember those. They do these two headliner shows. Oh, yeah.

All the time. And travel a bit. Because I remember Louis used to do it with Roseanne sometimes. Yeah. I did it after Roseanne. Right. I did Vegas with Louis a lot, too. And Vegas with Dennis a bit. Because I remember Louie used to do it with Roseanne sometimes. Yeah, I did it after Roseanne. Right. I did Vegas with Louie a lot, too, and Vegas with Dennis a lot. So after the Dangerfield thing, when do you think you became sort of capable of doing the hour, of doing those bigger shows, of drawing?

Well, then I kind of went, I do every rung, you know? So I start with the improv where you do you do what 12 shows a night and you get paid two dollars right and then that was in vegas and then my career kind of kind of blossomed little by little but i could tell from vegas vegas so i went and then jeff altman i remember i was on a big butt steak yeah i was on um on, um, on Flip You Like or something. Yeah. Flip You Like a cheeseburger. Yeah. Cheeseburger. Cheese almond. Awesome. So, um, I went and I started being on the Letterman show a lot. So that kind of got me a bigger audience. And then. You had a good relationship with Dave. I never knew him personally, but he would have me on the show quite a bit. And Bob Morton used to have me on the show all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Like in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. So I went to Los Angeles. Yeah. And then I couldn't get on the Tonight Show. You lived here. I lived in Los Angeles.

Yeah. Yeah. And I couldn't get on the Tonight Show because Jim McCauley hated me. Ugh. And I auditioned him for about five years. You auditioned for him for five years? Yeah. And then one-

After you'd done Letterman. Oh, yeah. Like 10 times. Oh, yeah. What an ass. Yeah. Yeah. after you'd done Letterman like ten times

oh yeah what an ass yeah and he every time I would get on stage he would walk out until Alex Friedman Bud's wife

yeah said what is your problem this is a very funny woman you have to listen to her so he stayed in yeah and he listened to me and said okay

I'll let you on the show but you have to totally rearrange your material and what does that mean order wise yeah and he said this is I want you to do this this this and this but you have to totally rearrange your material. What does that mean? Order-wise? Yeah. And he said, I want you to do this, this, this, and this.

And he said, also, do you know who Mary Lou Retton is? This is true. This is what he said. And I said, yeah, she's a gymnast. Look at her timing. I said, she's on a board flipping backwards. What do you mean? He said, she's got good timing.

You have to look at her timing. He'd been drinking, you know, because he used to drink so he said tomorrow night let's go see you at the hermosa comedy and magic yeah so i say okay so i do his i rearrange it and it's uncomfortable because it's not coming from me right and it's a mess but they don't do that though the producers they tell you you know oh cause with this or do this yeah so you're doing eight minutes right well so i don't know i remember it was a mess. And I couldn't remember what came. And I said, ah.

So he came up to me, to his credit, and said, it was better the way you did it. And he gave me a shot. Did you do a backflip or dismount? You know, I watched Mary Lou Retton. It made all the difference. So I go. And I'm on The Tonight Show. And Johnny really liked me and then kept having me on all the time.

That's great. And that was really good. You got in under the wire. I did, didn't I? Yeah. Yeah, and he was very nice to me. I mean,

because he was a shy guy. Johnny. Yeah, and he used to come in and even say hello to me in the makeup room and, you know, how was your day and everything.

So I was, he was very sweet to me. So you did both Letterman and Johnny like a couple dozen times between the two of them. Yeah. So you come out here.

So you're good. You're doing good. You're building more. So I imagine you're doing Carson at that time. That would make a big difference at the club or wherever you were going to be. Yeah, and I started getting HBO specials. I got my own specials. What was the first special?

Well, my own or with somebody else. No, your own. Did you do one for- My own was Rita Redmond. I know that bit of it. It was something about mild. Oh, yeah. Born to be mild.

Oh, yeah. Born to be mild. That was it. Yeah. And then I did Married Without Children. Both for HBO? Yeah. Those are big.

That's big. Yeah. But I did loads of things in between the women of the night special and one night stand special and then one in um new york that i can't remember the name of it was the madison square garden special and i said loads of little specials and where i was in and yeah and you're so you're working you're making good money on the road uh-huh but and you did some TV acting? No. You were in there throughout? No? No. No. I finally got a pilot script deal. Yeah. And a pilot.

In the late 80s? Probably. Yeah. And it was good and didn't get picked up. And then I got a script deal. Yeah. And this one I wrote with another girl. His name was Wendy Goldman.

He was a really funny comedy writer and it was very good it was called Dames and it was about like the young golden girls and three divorced women living together in Chicago

spinsters? no we were divorced okay is that a spinster if you're divorced? I don't know I just thought I'd call back

the word spinster I like that spinster so and Les Moonves was the head of CBS. The disgraced Les Moonves. Yeah. And I don't know.

He didn't like a show called Dames about people bitching about men. So he didn't pick it up. Wow. In light of the recent. I know. Makes sense. The Him Too movie. Yeah.

You're probably lucky that he didn't like it. I don't know. He didn't like it. I don't know. He didn't like it, didn't put it on, and it was really funny. We did a big presentation of it at the, not the comedy store, the one that's on, The Laugh Factory. Laugh Factory, yeah. And we did a whole, I had Bob Saget, my friend Bob Saget was in it. Sure. Two other women who were so funny, and it like killed.

Yeah. You did a table read? were so funny and it killed. Yeah. You did a table read? A table read, a part acting part. Uh-huh. And they passed before I could get to the parking lot. No reason, right? It's just not for us. Uh-huh.

You're very talented. Not for us. So this is when my husband and I- When did you marry that guy? I married him. Well, he came into Catch a Rising Star one night because he had jet lag and he was looking at shows. He was a producer in Australia.

That's what I heard. I remember like there was like some point in your career where like I was like, what happened to Reed Rudner? And they were like, I think she went to Australia. Yeah, I did. I went to Australia. And I was like, is that a thing people do? You and Jeff Stilson.

Yeah. Well, Martin was the person bringing all the comedians to Australia. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So he's looking for shows. He's a Catch a Rising Star. So he's looking for shows at Catch a Rising Star. Yeah.

And he says, well, she's funny. And he hires me to do the Edinburgh Festival first. Because in England, why are you going, oh, you don't like that? The Edinburgh Festival was not good for me. It's turned into quite a clusterfuck. Maybe when you did it. Oh, no. It was just sort of like nine people a night there was a thousand shows going on simultaneously okay but maybe

when you do it it was there was a more uh well i did it a hundred years ago so it was a long time it it must have been 34 35 years oh my gosh 35 years ago wow my gosh what was the festival like just two venues i mean it wasn't i mean it was mean, it was still a lot, but it wasn't. A thousand. It wasn't a thousand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there weren't many comedy shows. Oh, okay.

So anyway, so I start working for him. I'm not, no relationship or anything. Mm-hmm. But he keeps calling me and saying, because I had a boyfriend in New York at that point. I didn't want to go anywhere. Yeah. And one day he called me up and said, do you have a new show i'm doing in australia i moved from england to australia please come because he'd done it a year before and i wouldn't go

because i'm my boyfriend what kind of new show like uh i want to do what did he want to do was he doing stage show oh it was it was a new theater that he wanted to open up on the gold coast in australia yeah which is like the Hawaii of Australia. And so he calls up. And at that point, I just had a huge fight with my boyfriend. And it was Christmas time. And I said, I'm not going to sit here and be miserable about this stupid guy. So I went to Australia for Christmas.

And I'd known him for years by then, like two, three years. And I moved in. And that was that. That was that. And you lived in Australia? For a then, like two, three years. Yeah. And I moved in, and that was that. That was that? Yeah. And you lived in Australia? For a while, yeah. A long time.

I mean, I'd go back and forth and spend a lot of time in Australia. But that was primarily for the relationship, not because comedy was so good in Australia. Both. You became a big star in Australia. I did lots of television in Australia. I mean, not a big star, but I played theaters in Australia. I think if you hang around long enough in Australia, you get on TV, right? Yeah, not really.

But it is a smaller marketplace. Sure, I know. I performed there, and I've noticed that about even England, that because of the sort of size of the media landscape there, if you're good, you're going to get on and maybe get a show and be regulars. It gets increasingly more difficult as time goes on. But at that point, I did get a lot of TV exposure in Australia. So you must have been generating a lot of material. I try. I always try. I never know when it's going to come out or not, but I keep trying.

But because like there were like, am am i wrong that jeff stillson lived in australia did he live in australia do you know him yeah of course i know jeff stillson yeah he was there right my husband brought him there and richard jenny and larry ambrose i know my friend richard but did stillson stayed though didn't he marry an australian he could have done i think he did yes i think he did you're right yeah yeah he was very funny but my husband when we start when we got together i said you know i'm not going to live in Australia. Yeah. And he said, well, I can do my job from anywhere.

I produce shows. There's a phone. And he moved to Los Angeles with me. So you're both in Los Angeles. Mm-hmm. Now, you're touring solo, but then you talk about Vegas. Now, I haven't talked to a lot of people who have had the experience you've had in Las Vegas because like to for me the type of comedy I do I I somehow

avoid Las Vegas but I know that if you get a residency in Las Vegas that that is where you can really sustain a high quality of life a good living and you know perform forever how do you how do you enter that world was that from your husband producing or how'd that work? Yes. But it's step by step. First the improv then me. They wouldn't have a female headliner with no man. The improv in Vegas. Yeah. Then they wouldn't have a woman with no man so it was me and Jeff Altman at the Sands. Then I got a contract at the Sands To do your own show at a room. In a room. Yeah. But it was the Copa room. Louie and I used to do it. show at a room in a room yeah but it was the Copa room Louie and I

used to do it like how many weeks like you know like eight weeks a year or something back and forth then I started opening for Julio Iglesias

and you know people and that Caesars who else did you open for a lot of Sergio's yeah Sergio

I remember their first name was Sergio I always notice about billboards for Action Las Vegas Sergio's. Yeah. Sergio. I remember their first name was Sergio. I always notice about billboards for Action Las Vegas. I'm like, who is that? Well, now it's all- One name. Yeah, now it's all DJs.

DJs, right. You just see these signs. I don't know who Diplo and Mousehead are. Yeah, just like Johan. It's like, who is that guy with the haircut on him? Who's Marshmello? I don't know. So anyway, so I go and then I go step by step by step.

And then Dennis and I are at the MGM. Louie and I are at Bally's. For like eight weeks, 12 weeks. Yeah, a year. Spread out. And I notice every time I go to Vegas with Martin, we have a great time. The audiences are good. I come out with a lot of money.

We're happy. Then I go back to Los Angeles and I get my head kicked in. You're just another one of the people. And my scripts are well not martin and i wrote movie scripts that sold very very well oh yeah like which ones um well they get made they didn't know they never get made but but you did you wrote the scripts we got we sold specs and we had we did really well but it was a i'm having meetings with these movie executives and my head is hurting. The last one, Martin and I rewrote Green Acres. And we pitched this thing to Green Acres.

That got made, didn't it? No, it never got made. Because it's the thing that's going on with the revivals and everything. And I said, you know, we're just going to, we're going to pitch this of who we're going to do it for. And we're going to do an outline and she's going to approve it. And we're not going to take any chances. We're going to pitch this of who we're going to do it for. And we're going to do an outline. And she's going to approve it.

And we're not going to take any chances. We're going to get everything. Because these people, they're so mean. When you go in and you're writing and writing and writing. I don't like it. I don't like this. I don't like that. And who the hell are they?

I said, well, you do it. I'm getting mean. So I go in. And this woman is so mean to us about this script and i'm sitting there with my arms crossed and my i won't even take my sunglasses off and i said you did you approved everything with and martin said how you know he's usually the one that goes on and i said i just can't do it anymore yeah this is too upsetting yeah so i got this call to work a little room in las vegas at the mgm that they didn't know what to do with.

The Catch a Rising Star room. Oh, yeah, I remember. At the MGM. Because the crazy horse girls were coming and they were negotiating and the contract wasn't coming together. Did six weeks there, sold out, turned into six months. Yeah, at Catch. Yeah. We renamed it.

Martin renamed it. It was called the something theater. Oh, so they got rid of Catch. Oh, yeah. They got rid of Catch and replaced it with me. Well, that was when Rich Fields had sort of opened a bunch of Catches everywhere, right? Yeah. For a minute?

Yeah. Went away. And then it was a game show after that they did there. So anyway, Martin renames it the Palace Theater. I forget what it is. So then they offered to build me my own theater at New York, New York. Wow. And it was a big decision. And Martin and I, we were doing well. We were writing scripts.

I was still getting jobs on the road. Did you do other writing? Did you write for the Oscars? I did. Three years. I wrote for the Oscars with Steve Martin. Was that great? And with Goldberg. Oh, I love Steve Martin. He's one of my idols. Nice guy to you?

Really nice guy. He's one of my idols. And it was one of the all-time great experiences working with Steve. With Whoopi, I was already living in Las Vegas, so I didn't get the day-to-day things, even though Whoopi has always been wonderful to me as well. So you got your own theater. But Steve and I, we were always at his house writing.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. So we said, do we keep banging our heads against a wall here? You know, you don't want to go to a party every day where no one likes you. Yeah. And so I said, you know, it's like you creating your own thing here. Yeah. You get to do what you want to do all the time.

Right. So Martin said, I will produce the show. We'll adopt a baby. We'll sell our house. We sold everything. We sold our dishes, our silverware, our couches, everything. And we just moved to Las Vegas

and I stayed there for 12 years or 13 years with my own show. In your own years or 13 years with my own show. In your own theater? Six years in my own theater. Yeah. And then I shifted from a Harrah's to the Venetian. So when you do that, what is the week? You do, what, Thursday, Friday, Saturday?

I did the first six years, I did five, six nights a week. For how many weeks a year? All the time. Wow. I just, because Martin, because he's a producer, said, when you're making money, make all the money you can. That's right. Because soon you won't be making any money.

He said, I know this. You have your window. Yeah, this is your window. Yeah. So if they're sold out, I'm adding another show. And you will be happy you did this. And also the great thing about Vegas is that, you know, if you are known

to be a good show in vegas you know people will go out of their way to see you even if they might not know you or whatever but if you want to see something funny this is where you go but also we got in at the right time again so much of life is timing when we went there when um there was one circ show just opening over at the Mirage. Cirque du Soleil show? Yeah. And we were against, we called it, it was Lord of the Dance. We called it Lord in My Pants.

Yeah. And it was Lord in My Pants at the big theater and an EFX show, which was at the MGM, which wasn't very good. And so there wasn't a lot of competition. Martin noticed that there weren't a lot of comedians there. Who was there, comedian-wise? There weren't any comedians doing residencies like that really nobody not yet no he created that and he said we're going to create this one he said i'm going to build you a smaller theater had 400 seats yeah so you can do it every night instead of these thousands of you know things so and then create uh an existence

and um also i you know i i do charities whenever i can where i live but i did loads of work you know and my dog was in the show too my sheep i know the sheep dog yeah and um he did charity work too he was on billboards for other dogs all All in Vegas. Yeah. And we were able to raise a little girl. Yeah. And I would go to work at seven, be home by 10, no more traveling. Yeah. And it was great. And you don't live there anymore? I live there part-time. Yeah. I live there a lot of the time as well. Now I'm negotiating a new contract with another male headliner at a different casino. Which headliner? I can't say because until it goes through but it would be fun one of your generation oh that's fun yeah and when you're there as a performer because like you know the old vegas you kind of got the feeling that there was a

a real community there and everybody hung out but it doesn't seem like that was the vegas you were i don't ever do that you know i, I did it when I was single. Yeah, yeah. I hang, I'm like a mother. You know, I have my friends' daughters' mothers. And I, you know, I'm just, I have a different lifestyle now. But when did the other comics start coming in, doing what you were doing? So I'm doing the MGM, the little room at the MGM.

And I get a call from my old friend, George Wallace. Oh, yeah. He's like, yeah. He loves Vegas. He said, how'd you get that room? And I said, I created it. My husband and I built it. I want that room. I said, okay, well you're going to have to get your own room, George. And he did. So then he did.

And then Carrot Top came in. Luxor. Luxor, yeah. Yeah, and he has his residency there now. And then Carrot Top came in. Luxor. Luxor, yeah. Yeah, and he has his residency there now. And then it just started, you know, then I think word got out that you can make a really good living and you don't have to get on a plane every day. So that's something that happened in the 90s, you're saying, basically. I know, 2000. I started in the year 2001. Wow, so that whole thing, like, I mean, like a lot of comics, I mean, a handful of people that can do it, do it.

Some comics have rooms there that they book. I mean, what's his name? Had that one that people do, but it's not a residency, but he booked it. Steve, oh, the guy from the Sopranos. Oh, yes. I know him. He was really nice. Yeah, Sharippa.

Oh, how funny was Steve Sharippa? Yeah, but he booked a room yeah i remember he was at the desert inn yeah i remember and he used to come in and have the shrimp and the shrimp is very good shrimp on a stone yeah and and sandy like i talked to sandy because i was you know i loved his father you know and i was curious about his life and he i guess it was long before you were there but you know he used to sort of carry on that old tradition of having a variety show and a little hotel and booking things here. I have to tell you, one of my biggest epiphanies was Sandy Hackett invited. I just had moved to Los Angeles and he had a big party at Buddy Hackett's house in Beverly Hills.

And all the comedians came and there was a pool and a waterfall and a gorgeous. And I said, oh, my gosh, jokes built this house. Yeah. I'm going to write a lot of jokes because I want a really nice house. That happened at Buddy Hackett's house? Yeah. Did you know Buddy? I met him, but I knew Sandy mostly.

Yeah, yeah. But I just remember, just write a lot of jokes, Rita, and you can have a big, nice house. And he did it. And I did it. I wrote a lot of jokes, have a nice house. Well, it sounds like your life is great. It's pretty good, I have to say. And this new special you did with Comedy... Comedy Dynamics?

Yeah. Yes. When it drops when? It's now. It has just dropped, and it's dropping as we speak. I can feel it dropping. Yeah. And it's called Rita Redner, Tale of Two Dresses, and my daughter is at the end because she's a singer-songwriter. And she's really good.

And I don't know. Now she wants to be a policeman. But who knows? Oh, yeah. She's a letter explorer. As a musical policeman. Yeah. We need more musical policemen.

She likes forensics. What am I going to do? She's going to be a CSI musician. So, and this is available to download on iTunes? iTunes and SchmiTunes. Yeah. Oh, that? iTunes and SchmiTunes. Oh, that's interesting. It's also on SchmiTunes. That's only available in Florida.

Yeah, that's good. That's on SchmiTunes. And it's in, wait, it's more, Google, it's on demand. Yeah, you can demand it. You demand it and then it comes to you. If you demand it, it will come. Okay. Great talking to you, Rita.

Thank you for having me on your lovely show. It was great. It was really fun. Thank you. I hope everything is good. And I'm looking at a hammer. Yes. And some dice.

Yeah, a lot of stuff here. And a cat on a mushroom. Mosaic mushroom, yeah. Okay, I'm just saying. This is my favorite thing. I don't know what that's going. That little hand exercise. And I'm going to give you a nice mug to commemorate our time together.

Oh, I love a mug. I'm a coffee girl. All right. That was Rita Rudner. Great comic. Her comedy special, A Tale of Two Dresses, is now available on digital and on-demand platforms. You can also check out RitaRudner.com to see where she's performing around the country. And don't forget, there are a few tickets

left to my Saturday night show at the Beacon in New York City. Go to WTFPod.com slash tour for the ticket link. And if you're at the Beacon show, you'll have the first chance to buy the new WTF Draplin design t-shirt. And that's it. I'm going to go out into

the day here. The beautiful day in New York. Vote, please. Please, will you? Could you just do it? I did it. You can do it. Try to do the right thing.

Do the right thing, can you? I'm going to go wander the streets. And by the way, I'm recording this on Sunday, so don't think it's Monday and I'm wandering around. But it doesn't matter. I'm meeting Todd Barry for lunch. We're going to walk around and talk about what we always talk about. Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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