WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 967 - D.L. Hughley

Episode Date: November 12, 2018

"The most dangerous place for black people to live is in white people’s imaginations." That idea has allowed D.L. Hughley to organize a lot of his thoughts on what we're dealing with as a country, and he believes what we're really doing is fighting fear. D.L. tells Marc about his experiences growing up in South Central Los Angeles, getting out before he got lost, and building himself up through comedy. They also talk about two of D.L.'s influences, Robin Harris and Bernie Mac, his tours, his specials, his TV and radio shows, and Kanye. This episode is sponsored by Amy Schumer Presents: 3 Girls, 1 Keith on Spotify, Loop Jewelry, SimpliSafe, and Quip. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast.

Welcome to it. It's called called wtf how are you everything all right uh back from new york city and what a fucking amazing trip i've been away for three weeks i don't know if you folks have been keeping up but uh i'll give you some updates by the way dl hugley is on the show today he's a guy that i've been wanting to talk to for years, actually, for years. I had a mild obsession with his very first HBO half hour, because I think we did him around the same time we talk a bit about it, but I always wanted to interview him for years, and it just never happened. It almost happened a lot, and we had a lovely conversation, so he's going to be here momentarily. Also, yes, I did see it. Yes, I heard about it yes i did see it yes i heard about it i did see it what am i talking about to those of you who uh who don't know what i'm talking about well i'll tell you alex moffitt on snl uh did me as a character in a sketch it was the potty awards the podcast awards so uh

they took the piss out of podcasting but i think it had it coming i i've no uh i have no real issue with that i thought i thought it was funny i thought it was a inside in a way and then he came out and did me and i gotta be honest with you i was uh a very flattered i'm not easy to do i know that i don't have enough i don't think i have enough quirks or ticks or maybe i don't james adobian does a pretty good me uh but alex moffitt did a very what what impressed me was i feel like in the sketch he he seemed to he put some effort into it in the sense that like i think he got my walk right i it you know it looked like he put some effort he put some time into getting me right and you know i'm barely doing that i mean i'm still doing that myself i'm I'm almost there on some days. I almost get me right. I thought he got the voice right,

the intonation right. Very flattering. And I got to say, you know, I always wanted to be on SNL, and that might be it. I might have just gotten on SNL by proxy through the character of me played by Alex Moffat. I'd like to thank him for doing that. It was something, and it was good. I was proud somehow that I'd made it to some level enough to be mocked on SNL as me, that I am enough of a something to where they were like, this will be funny if we just do an impression of him.

I'm a him that they can do an impression of. That was very exciting. Is that okay? Is that all right? I was excited by it. I thought he did a good job. So let's go through it. Let's have at it.

I was sort of going over my trip to New York. And aside from the terror and apocalyptic fires that are going on here in Los Angeles, which happened over the last few days, which are just terrifying. There's always that terror of fire here. And I definitely feel horrible for all the people that are losing their homes. The people lost people. People lost animals. And it's just a tinderbox out here, and there's always this threat of fire, and there always seems to be a fire going on, and it's awful.

I just want to acknowledge that we're going through a lot out here. A lot of people are in a lot of trouble and need a lot of help, and the firefighters have been amazing. need a lot of help and the firefighters have been amazing firefighters not unlike uh the vets and soldiers and people in the military today is their day as well and uh thank you thank you for uh for protecting us saving lives and uh and doing what you do we appreciate it that said um i'm back in la my house is okay thank you for asking i'm not. My house is okay. Thank you for asking. I'm not sure the air is okay, but if that's the worst that I have to deal with is I, you know, I might not be able to run for a week or so. Then I'm very grateful today. I'm recording this on Sunday. So last night I did the beacon theater, but let's back it up. Cause I was really looking at,

you know, what kind of, what did I do? Because I was busy the whole time and it was sort of insane what I did. I mean, for the, for the, as most of you know, I did a scene in the, or two in the Joker movie and that went well. And then I went down to Boston and did a couple of scenes in the new Mark Wahlberg film that's being shot called Wonderland. My buddy Pete Berg directed that. But also on top of that, I did interviews. I went to see Aaron Sorkin's To Kill a Mockingbird in previews because I talked to Aaron Sorkin. I

talked to Jeff Daniels, who plays Atticus Finch in the show. It was spectacular to go to the theater to see something that has been rethunk, but not butchered in any way. To see something that was written when it was written and to feel how relevant and how much it resonates with the themes of horrendous racism. And it actually was able to bring some humanity to it in a way that theater is the only thing that can do that. And I thought it was a tremendous effort. And it was great talking to Aaron and Jeff. You'll get to hear those soon. I also was able to go to see a preview of the new Andy Warhol show at the Whitney, crammed in that.

And it's really, you know, I guess I get jaded. Maybe I don't always understand. My partner, am I using that word now? My partner, Sarah the painter, is a painter. You know, I guess I get jaded. Maybe I don't always understand my partner. Am I using that word now? My partner, Sarah the painter, is a painter. So it's always a little intimidating to go to museums with Sarah because, well, I am what I am. You know, she's in it. You know, I'm out of it, but I appreciate it the best I can. And I think sometimes it's good for her to hear a layman's point of view.

I can. And I think sometimes it's good for here to, to hear a layman's point of view, just a guy looking at art with, uh, with some, uh, relative sophistication, some intellect, but not a lot of training and not a lot of sense of the history or the context or, or necessarily, you know, what is being shown here, but Warhol, I can handle Warhol's right there. It's all right up front. You know, you know what he stood for, you know, where he came from, you know what he did, you know how he came from you know what he did you know how he changed things and it was spectacular my point was that you go to the whitney you go see a war hall it's basically a career show a career retrospective to some degree and you think you've seen all that stuff if you've been going to art since you were a kid which i have going to see art you think like well what you know more war hall but i'll tell you man

it was curated beautifully. They had a lot of early stuff that I'd never seen before. Uh, and they had, and just the selections they made in the way they hung the show was, uh, was tremendous. And like, it was exciting, man. I have not, I mean, I always, I'm always excited to go when I go to see art, but like it, like I got there and I was elated. I was like, wow, this is really put together nicely. And, and there was some stuff I'd never seen before. Some stuff that really shows, you know, the depth of what he was capable of color wise and

conceptually, it was just, uh, tremendous. And then I went to see, I was, I went to the Guggenheim to see the, uh, Hilma of clint i believe is uh how you pronounce it i really didn't know anything about her until sarah introduced me to her she was an artist that uh worked in uh god damn where was it in uh was it sweden i hope see like this is where the conversation falls off a little bit uh she was a part of a group of women that were students of a spiritual philosophical society. She was initially a real color and line and abstraction, sort of solve some of the bigger questions about the mystical realm. And because of that was one of the founders, if that's a way to put it,

or one of the inspirations for the future of abstract painting. And she went relatively unrecognizedized as many women do in the painting racket for many years. And now there's a tremendous retrospective of her work at the Guggenheim. And that was, that was mind blowing. It's great. If you go to New York,

I highly recommend it. And it was the peak of fall. It was just, am I sounding too chipper? I know the world is still ending, but you know, look, I,

I, okay. But there was a great moment, though. There was a great moment. And I have to speak as a middle-aged man at some point. Middle-aged men, some of us are doing our best. We're doing our best to stay woke, to kind of like, you know, make the adjustments necessary to be respectful of the space that we all occupy together.

And there was a moment that Sarah kind of witnessed and shared with me at the Hilma af Klint show, where she was walking past a man and a woman. The woman was, you know, slightly ahead of the man and and the man was was irate and and this is what she heard him say the man i don't like art i'm here with you trying to be open you hear that tone i don't like art i'm here with you trying to be open we don't know what led up to that we don't know you know how long that tone had happened before. But, but if you hear that tone in particular, that tone, and especially with that subject matter, that's a, that's a man trying. And, uh, you know, sometimes men are stubborn, but, you know, and, and sometimes we don't, uh, especially middle-aged men, we don't make the adjustments, uh, as smoothly as we should.

But, uh, I, I don't, I don't, I'm listening. I'm, I'm trying to listen. I don't want to, okay, I'm sorry. You know, that tone is, that's not an abusive tone. That's a man struggling to be woke. So recognize that tone. I'm not saying, I'm not mansplaining. I'm not trying to, I think that Sarah's first response was like, oh, God, why did she bring that guy? And my thought, when she told me about that, my response was like, he's trying. He's, he's trying. That's the sound of a man trying. So this brings us up to the other night to Beacon Theater. And

I, you know, look, I don't know. Like recently I've been sort of obsessing, obsessing over my last performance in New York, my last big one, the Carnegie Hall show. I've been sort of hard on myself in retrospect that I wasn't prepared enough that I I felt a little shaky and I didn't feel like I was as grounded as I needed to be. I was very hard on myself. So heading into the Beacon Theater, which seated about twenty five500. We had almost about 2,500 in there, which is big for me. That's a big night for me. A local comic in New York, Dina Hashem, opened for me. She did a great job. I just didn't know what was going to happen, but it was beautiful because I had to be out of there because Tracy Morgan was the show after mine. So I only had, I had an hour 15 max, so I couldn't fucking noodle on no matter how it

was doing. I had to get out. So it tightened me up and you know, I don't know why I make myself crazy. Maybe it's just part of my process, but I got out there and it was great right from the beginning. It was a great crowd. It was a great room. It's a beautiful theater.

It was actually productive because I'm working through bits and you know, I tried some new stuff that I put together that morning, which I always, I always seem to do when I'm up against the wall and I'm doing a big show. If I just put myself out there and I risk failing or I risk taking out some new bits out there or I frame it a different way, that makes it very immediate and very exciting. And I come out of it thinking, I came out of it thinking like, I see a form to this. So as this hour evolves, as we move towards another special, I did see a way that I could build something that is a unified hour, which is what I've sort of been doing the last couple of specials I did. So it was great. And I was glad people came out and witnessed that. My mommy was there. My aunt Bobby was there. My aunt Linda, my Uncle Bill was there. Brendan McDonald came.

Sarah was there. Matt Sweeney was there. Sam Lipsight was there. A lot of Marin cousins that I never see were there. My Grandma Goldie's neighbor, Carrie Newrick, and his family were there. But thank you for coming out. It went great. And the new t-shirts sold very well. That new shirt, the new WTFshirts sold very well that uh that new shirt the new wtf shirt that was available for people at the beacon theater is now officially on sale for the general public this is it this is the shirt designed by aaron drapland and it's great it's a great shirt so uh go check it out and get yourself one or buy one as a holiday gift for somebody it's at pod swag.com slash wtf pod swag.com slash wtf or just click on the merch link at wtf pod.com okay good shirt and i'm going to look like

that shirt again at least for a couple weeks starting tonight i'm shaving the fucking beard off folks great trip to new York. Happy to be home. Thank you all for everything. D.L. Hughley is here. And D.L., a lot of respect for this guy. Like him as a comic. Like him on the radio. Like his TV show.

I always wanted to talk to him. It was a thrill for me to have him here. His Netflix special, D.L. Hughley Contrarian, is now available to stream. His most recent book, How Not to Get Shot and Other Advice from White People, is available wherever you get books. And this is me and veteran comic, not a veteran, but he's a lifer like myself. Me and D.L. Hughley talking.

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But it's more with the rest of us. It's the R&B format. So we have. I got all that forward momentum, teasing shit. We'll be back. You still got it. More with. Tears music. Yeah.

And then everybody wants you to sell their pizza, their books. Yeah. Yeah, so there's that. And then, you know, labels want you to feature. So it's more clutter. Yeah. But do they come in and like I remember because I like doing radio.

I started the way I got used to this was I was on Air America for a year and a half. I remember that. Yeah. And you know when you first start doing it

when you got to do a morning show and you got to wake up and be live. Yeah. It's fucking exciting man. Well except when you've been out all night and I did radio show

for a long morning radio for a long time. I was beyond my out all night days I did radio show for a long, morning radio for a long time. I was beyond my out all night days. Right, right. No, no. Because if you're out all night, you don't know whether you're going to the radio station or going.

I don't think I'll have breakfast at a radio because I've been out so long. But I love the afternoons. I love doing that. I love the medium of radio. Yeah, me too. What do you do? Three to what? Do you do three?

What time do you start? Well, we start, the show's from three to seven, but, you know, we're in the West. When I'm here, it's 12 to four. But like, so do you live here?

I live here in New York. And New York. And so, what's the deal on that? How often do you spend in New York? I'll finish this and I'll go home and pack

and I'll be in New York for the week and then I'll be to Portland and I'll come back and I'll be- Portland for a show? Portland. I'll be to Portland then I'll come back and I'll be Portland for a show? Portland we're doing the comedy

Get Down with me and George and Ced George Lopez oh really oh you're touring with that? yeah

and Cedric and Cedric and Eddie Griffin holy shit you got Eddie out? yep and that's what everybody said everybody said

you managed to get Eddie yeah yeah yeah. Where was he hiding? He was hiding in Vegas and shit. Like, you know, he's doing, he plays a lot of gigs.

He got that residency down in Vegas. He does? He was at the Rio and now he's moved. And that's what, he just stays there most of the year?

Yeah, but he plays there I guess Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and then he gigs on the weekend. Oh, so like, so he's been working.

A ton. That's the thing. You don't realize about people in our job. It's like you don't see someone for a while. You think they ain't doing that. Yeah, you don't assume the best. He's in Tacoma. I don't know what that's all about.

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't ask him anything else. Didn't seem like he was doing comedy. So that means you go back and forth every week. Mm-hmm. I'm on the road every, if. But you do the show mostly in New York, live. It's really 50-50, because I'll be like, I did the show Friday from Cincinnati, because

I had a gig there. So you just go into the studio, do ISDN line. Yep. They set you up. Set you up. And is it national, the show? Yeah, we're in 70-some mark. Oh.

We're in New York, Baltimore, Detroit. How's it doing? Atlanta. Really good. Yeah? We're pretty close to the number one urban syndicated show in the country. Oh, that's great. Who's ahead of you?

I don't know. When I say pretty close, it's because it vacillates everywhere. But let's just say I look down. I don't look up. Good. Good. So I was trying to think. I've been trying to get you on the show for a long time. Right. But I remember the thing that I remember from look up. Good. Good. So I was trying to think, like, I've been trying to get you on the show for a long time.

Right. But I remember the thing that I was, like, I remember from way back. Now, am I mistaken? Or did you do a half hour, HBO half hour? Sure. Like, around the time I did? Yeah, you and Bill Maher. It was me.

You, Bill Maher. I did it to Fillmore, though. Yeah, you did. Yeah. And I don't know if you were on my shooting, but it was around the same time, like 95? What? Well, it was a little earlier for me.

Right, you were the ones before me. Before you guys, right. So, like, because I remember seeing that, and just I never forget that that's especially yours. Because, like, I was watching you, and you looked like you were furious. Right, and you know what's so funny? When I look back at my earlier stuff, like I hardly ever, like if this comes on or somebody

mentions it, it was really, because I came out of a different experience. Yeah. So like I worked really, you know, the chitlin' circus. So you would be working these nightclubs. But where'd you start? Here, in Los Angeles. But you grew up here. I grew up here.

See, I didn't even know that. I grew up here. Until this morning. Yeah, I grew up here. And so when I, when I went, we'd do joints like the Page Four or the Total Experience or the Regency West. So they were really just these fucking nightclubs. Here.

That had the clean drinks or whatever. Yeah. And so, because at that time you had to clean drinks or whatever yeah and so because at that time you had to have the drinks off the floor by 2 o'clock

so at 1.30 yeah they would let comics go up and so you had to shout and shit and you know at 1.30 1.30

so the comics would go to get people out so they could clean the drinks up no shit they could still stay they just couldn't have

liquor out so what part of town did you grow up in? I grew up on 135th and Abilene. Yeah? Mm-hmm. I don't know that neighborhood. It's South Central.

It's like, if you hit a motherfucker, if you threw a rock for my house, you hit a nigga that lived in Compton. That's what happened. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, so we were in the unincorporated part of Los Angeles. So I lived on this side. That was LA and across the street was Compton.

What does unincorporated mean? Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. It was called does unincorporated mean? Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. It was called the unincorporated. It was like, it was Los Angeles, Compton, and Gardena. It's like, if you look on the map, it's like Rosecrans and Avalon. And, you know, across this way is Gardena. Across this way is Compton.

So it was really, it didn't belong to anybody. It was no man's land. So we're like almost exactly the same age, give or take a few months. Born in 1963. So like you grew up through a lot of shit in that neighborhood. Yeah, of course.

But it didn't, I don't know that it felt like anything. Right. It didn't feel like, it was just like. It was just your life. Like when I watch movies or read stuff about it,

I go, damn, that was fucked up. I don't know how we made it. How did anybody make it? But it didn't ever feel like that with me it never felt like it's not something that i i'm not overly nostalgic about it yeah but i have a lot of pleasant memories yeah but it did do you remember it like at any point getting bad or scary or fucked it was never scary to me when i was living there when you were little when i when I was living there. When you were little? When I was living there.

But when I got married, like I got married at like 21. Still married to the same person? I still am. And when I would go back, because you were in it. So I would go back and I was like, shit, this is pretty goddamn scary. So once that tether broke and you had seen other things right

because you have I had virtually nothing to compare it to how long did you stay there like your whole childhood yeah stayed there my whole childhood

well and then I left when I was like 17 so what was the family situation how many brothers and sisters I have two sisters

and one brother and your folks still around my old man just went about a month and a half ago. Really? Yes. And it was, you know, it's funny because. Good run?

He has a good run. Yeah. You know, that's what I told myself because I'm like, I like to think I'm a pretty pragmatic guy. But it was rougher than I thought it would be. Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. I was like, I thought, hey, hey man i've seen a lot of shit and

yeah he's had a good run how old was he uh 84 yeah 84 but when you're old man like women say dumb like i don't think they intentionally but they have a different motivation like they you should be there right when he he'll know you're there he didn't he didn't know you're there. He didn't know I was there. He didn't. Because he was just, he didn't know. But it was so funny because we. What'd he have? He had stage four lung cancer. So it was that whole, that was a horrible thing to, but it was. He didn't know because he was on morphine?

He was on everything. Yeah. But there was, you know, there was the most, the best moments I've ever had with my father was when he was on oxygen and couldn't talk back. Yeah. It's amazing the shit you can get off your chest when a motherfucker can't say nothing back. Did you get some shit solved? I got, you know, how much I loved him and how much, and I just, I wish he had let me be close to him.

And he takes his mask off and he says, you know, I just wasn't from that generation. He was lucid and he said, I wasn't from that generation. I'm amazed at how much you've accomplished. And I'm not, he said, I'm just so proud of you. And my brother walked in and go, wait a minute, I was talking from that generation I'm amazed at how much you've accomplished and I'm not he said I'm just so proud of you and my brother walked in and go wait a minute I was talking to that motherfucker who are you but it was because we came from a very like

religious family like I don't think I think black people are scared not to believe in God like because they go we believe in God and look how shittily we treated now what if we didn't believe in him well that's right i i mean i think uh you you know i i imagine that's what religion is for it's what it's used for are you do you go to church now no i mean it was always weird to me because the same people that gave you jesus gave you so it wasn't really

like way back right i don't know, like, I don't know. Like, just even the story that you hear about don't make sense. Like, if you're like, ooh, Santa with you. What do you want, little slave boy? My mother back? I'd like my mother back. Yeah, yeah. I'd like my mother back and my father to have his foot back.

So you couldn't. So my father is. And my real name, please. Right, and my real name. And some semblance of where I came from. That's it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, 23andMe before it happened real name, right? And my real name and some semblance of where I came from. I mean, 23 and me before it happened. Yeah. Right.

So, uh, they, and the, in the end, you know, cause, cause I think one of the,

the great things about religion is that you get to bullshit yourself. You, you get to bullshit yourself. I know. I know. I talk about it a lot lately. And I have like, that's probably why I'm not.

Cause like I have, like, that's probably why I'm not because I have, I have a diminished capacity of the ability to bullshit myself. they are, my father has just left. We all had to be in there because it was weird

because my father, my mother's been trying to kill my father for 58 years so I didn't think. So have we. I thought he was, I thought.

He made it this long. Yeah, I thought, like, she wouldn't be sad but like, she calls, she calls us. Oh, they're not together? Yeah, he made it this long. Yeah, I thought, like, she wouldn't be sad, but like, she calls, she calls us.

Oh, they're not together? Yeah, they were together. Oh, they were? Yeah, or as much as you could be together

when you're trying to kill somebody. Like, they don't have a love, like a Valentine's Day, they have a happy toleration day card, but. Always? Yeah.

I don't think they ever, it was, it's just so weird, the things you find out about your family. As they get older? Yeah, and the end is near, and how kind they are.

Oh my God. My dad tells me shit. I'm like, you know, I don't need this. I can live without this. But he was dying and she goes,

come on in, your father's getting ready to go. And she tells him, she said, Charlie, you don't have to wait. You've done your job. I got it from here.

And that motherfucker took two breaths and died. I said, God, well, your mother job I got it from here and that motherfucker took two breaths and died I said God well your mother said I gotta go so I'm I said this dude died on command

what type of shit is that he listens to her he listens so when everybody's in the room and they're all very religious and they go to church and they believe

and they're like we're gonna see you again daddy so when they all walked out I went hey man you know this is it for us we going in different directions you going up I'm going down but I'm gonna miss you again daddy oh when they all walked out i went hey man you know this is for us we're going in different directions you're going up i'm going down but i'm gonna miss you motherfucker i swear i swear we're going in different directions we'll never see each other i've never seen anyone die yeah oh man don't don't is that the first time the first time that way

yeah not the first time you know in life but the first time that way you saw other people die oh yeah we're on the streets I saw two people that was key yeah one had a motorcycle accident a minibike you know yeah sure he's slapping they shouldn't have given us is right the one that they would never allow to happen now no way we can't even those fucking scooters no way I see grown-ups on those scooters yeah you're gonna break yeah we're breakable you don't think that you can do that shit. And cities rent them now. All over the place.

Yeah, yeah. So this kid was on a minibike, and he hit a wall, and his brain came out. Oh, come on, man. I'm not even, like, wow. We were kids, and then I watched a kid named Bradley get shot. Oh, yeah. That was the two times. A kid you knew?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. When you were older? He was little. No, I was in the seventh or eighth grade. was little no i was in the seventh or eighth grade yeah so he was in the ninth or tenth grade oh and he got shot in some bullshit he got shot he was a boy scout and so these cats from my neighborhood got to heavy boy scouts yeah they're armed in your neighborhood but he was he was like one of those kids like every neighborhood no matter how rough has a kid that has a different light good kid yeah he was a good like he wasn't he didn't succumb to the yeah so he did all the

shit that you were supposed to do like a wee below and a boy oh yeah went all through it cub scout boy scout below and uh isn't there another one eagle eagle eagle yeah so he believed in all the outfits yeah he had them all he got and and was, here's the thing about a dude like that. He was conscientious, but he was so cool, everybody dug him. Yeah. So, like, people didn't think he was a dick. And one fucker just killed him? Well, these dudes had gotten to it with some other dudes from another neighborhood. Yeah.

And when they drove up, the fight had happened on a weekend. And when they drove up, they knew and ran. And he's like, I ain't in this shit. Yeah. And they shot him. they knew and ran. And he's like, I ain't in this shit. Yeah. And they shot him. On purpose. Yeah. It was,

it was one of the, it was, it was the first time I, I, I conceptualized how you could hate somebody just from a different neighborhood.

Like that notion made me hate those cats from those neighborhoods. You know, it's something you would never do now because you're older and you have a continuing but our politics is driven by it now yeah it is it is it's the same shit it really is this tribal shit yep the hat fields in the mccoy's all over yeah

and it's it's so shallow and i can't like i mean i know you you you you're you're in it a lot but like so you were able to stay out of trouble when you were a kid? No, I got into a lot of trouble. I did, all the time. I never graduated from high school. I got kicked out of Gardena High, went to Locke High. Yeah. Kicked out of there in a week. Went to-

For what? Fighting. Oh, really? We, you know, trying to be, trying to be, you know, I never, I always, I didn't have a romantic notion of the way, of the cats I grew up with and I don't have a romanticized notion of them like I said earlier,

but they taught me a lot about the world even though it was a very small piece of the world and a lot about who I am and what I could be and, but I remember I would do all the shit they did,

but I felt so bad for them. Oh, really? I did. I was like. Did you feel guilty, though? I didn't feel guilty, but I felt bad for them because I couldn't articulate it then, but I just knew something was different about me.

Yeah. Like, they had girls and money and respect. Yeah. They could do what they wanted to do. But you saw that it was, like, empty or that it wasn't all that it was? I don't know

that I would say because that's a little more introspective than I would have been but I felt years later I would realize I knew it wasn't

I was being disingenuous that it wasn't It wasn't you. It wasn't who I was and the fact that that was who they were made me feel bad for them interesting they weren't they weren't pretending that was it this was this the best is ever going

to be for them do you think that you were maybe because like you know we're comics and you're you're obviously a smart guy that there's a sensitivity and a capacity for for empathy you know that happens at a young age and you know either we can handle it or we can't either we get we get defensive or we don't but there's something like i'm just trying to picture because i knew guys that you wanted to hang with but you knew that like you weren't one of them yeah because like but you didn't quite know what you were i would i would have to say that's a close to that's a close approximation because they i I love them. Yeah. I thought they were cool. Right. Yeah.

And I didn't think I was, like I didn't feel superior. Right. But I felt sorry. They gave you, right. But they gave you definition too. Right. Because you're always like, I remember hanging out with badass dudes because sort of like, you know, I wasn't a pussy, but, you know, I wasn't doing that.

And they had a certain amount of confidence or a certain amount of cool and they were like come on come with us I'm like yeah okay do I have to get new shoes but they never you know one thing I will say

they let me do some shit but it was some shit they knew I couldn't do like it was some shit like when they went to go do dirt it was like I couldn't go what's that

like if they went to go hurt somebody I went to go do some shit that was heavy your heart wasn't that way. And I didn't know that. And so when you have this, and I didn't know that, but they did know it. So I guess I would say that as much as I knew about them, they knew about me.

And when I hear, when I watch these, you know, if you hear the popularized notion of neighborhoods like that all across the country, they have reduced it to little more than animals who are scraping by to survive. And it really, I think that they have cheated themselves out of really great stories and really great touchstones and really great opportunities to know a lot about human behavior. You mean how the media and white culture represents it? And I'm not saying it doesn't have, you know, obviously a lot of it is rooted in whatever reality. Right. Well, the interesting thing, yeah, a part of the reality. The story you don't hear is how those communities survive.

Right. And how people still live and exist and are safe in those communities is because the communities take care of survive. Right. And how people still live and exist and are safe in those communities is because the communities take care of themselves. Right, right. That there's all these things put into place by the fucking community to try to save some people.

Right. And it's, like I say this, and I literally mean it, the most dangerous place for black people to live is in white people's imaginations. Is that yours? Yeah, it's absolutely mine. The most dangerous place for black people to live is in white people's imaginations because yours yes absolutely mine the most dangerous place for black people live is in white people's imagination and it's because even statistically

people society these notions of us they're bigger stronger faster more impervious to pain less moral more amoral more more brutal right and even worse now right culturally right and so when you have that notion of like i I hope I never meet. I never hope I never meet the black men that exist in their imaginations. I hope I never do. Right. Like like so just a monster. He's in there and that's all they do. And all they want to do is fuck their women and rob them and put strain. It's but everywhere we live, we had to live. Yeah.

I was watching this thing on, and I forgot if it was National Geographic. You know if you're not even trying to watch something, some shit come on, you go, God damn, that tiger looks hungry. And you start watching. Oh, I watch, I used to love doing that. I used to love just turning the TV on,

flipping around, going, oh, what the fuck is this? Right. So they had this thing called the tiger whittles of, so it was these tigers that fed off these. Women would go get bamboo or wood. Yeah, yeah. And everybody would go, why did they leave? Why didn't they leave?

And it was because they couldn't. And that's really the same situation. A lot of people live where they have to live. Yeah. And everywhere we live is because somebody told us we have, in large numbers, whether you're black, brown, or whatever, in large numbers of society, and policemen don't exist to keep us safe. They exist to keep us where we belong.

Where you live. Yeah. Stay where you belong. Right. And that's the unincorporated part. It is. It is. And that's also where I imagine Jesus comes in on some level, is that I imagine a lot of community outreach has to happen through the churches and through.

But it's always it's always been like I used to get in trouble because black people by and large are people of color by and large have a pretty fervent belief in religion. Yeah. But white people do, too. Yeah. Except they can have heaven while they're here. They're doing OK. We got gotta die before we see jesus the only evidence i can see if jesus is the idea uh that people tell me like i'm alive and look what happened i mean like that oh yeah that yeah it's not a coincidence it's because jesus did it i don't know like if we really broke down the math it does seem like it could be a coincidence. I'm pretty sure Jesus has never been to where I live. I mean, everywhere we live in large numbers, there's very little evidence of Jesus, except for churches. But there's no, it's dirtier, it's more violent, it's more. Right.

Well, that's the same place that the horrible image of the black man lives in the white people's minds. I mean, Jesus lives in the mind. Yeah, so it's pretty crowded. It's got to be pretty crowded. And now, one great thing about now, like being a comic and like this whole Nike thing, I think Nike and Obama occupy the same place in a lot of white men's mind because Nike needs niggas to live like they don't they don't need a 40-year-old white dude they don't they really don't you obsolete to them you don't matter to

them yeah they got they got people they got their global company and most of the people who either buy their products or look up to people who buy their products or black or brown right yeah like you don't know a white put them on the map that's they put them on the map and they sustain them yeah like you don't know a dude the only white athlete you know with a shoe deal is tom brady and he wear uggs yeah and black people ain't waiting in the mall for the brand new uggs to come out it's true and nike's been doing that forever. And Nike's like special shoes for black people. And they'll make three of the same kind. Exactly. And everybody sees them. Yeah. Because when you when you Nike is the purveyors of culture, you know, and generally people who wear those shoes and espouse this kind of vantage point are people who are probably civilly.

They're pretty active. They're pretty. They've had a they have a civil kind of vantage point are people who are probably civilly they're pretty active they're pretty they've had a they have a civil kind of cord in rust yeah so fall we'll follow through the idea that Obama and Nike was like a well Nike doesn't need white people to they didn't need he didn't they didn't need their consent yeah or acceptance or or participation right and neither did Obama Obama won the presidency without with the majority of white people going, we don't want you here. Yeah, right. And I think that those things

remind them that they're not the only game in town and it irks them. When white men say this shouldn't happen, generally that's what happens. Right, yeah. But with Nike and Obama,

they're like, and those things are two recent notions that they've had to come to grips with. Now, like, just going off that recent news, I mean, what kind of fucking person is going to burn some shoes? Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, you must be shocked. Maybe you weren't, but it's like, how many of them are there?

I mean, like, the one thing is, if we get through this shit, whatever the fuck we're going through right now, if we come out the other side, we're going to know exactly who those people are. But we always did. You always did. We always did. No, no, I'm talking in general. We always do.

They get to pretend like they're not that way. Here's the thing. Why do hateful people always burn shit? If it's a flag or shoes. On either side. Why do y'all burn? What the fuck is the, what's protesting

burning shit up? But I just think that mostly what I see is a spirit of fear, which is, no matter what you call it, you could call it anger, you could call it,

it's a spirit of fear. It's that this place that we've always staked out, that was always solely ours is not anymore america america is getting blacker and browner and fatter sure higher i do a joke on stage i brought it back recently because my producer reminds me reminded me of it it's kind of a hard thing to take i don't even know it's a joke, but I used to say the fear really at the core of racism is that they know in their hearts and in their minds

that it only takes one brown load to make white black. And there's no unblacking white. It is. And we're getting, like now, people are marrying each other and having people in their families. And accepting it. And really accepting it.

And it really does take acceptance because, but acceptance not in the way that society says I should, but acceptance to me means I'm familiar with you. I ate with you. Right, right. We're family. We had the same grandmother. Yeah. And we had the same arguments. Same grandmother.

Yeah. And we had the same arguments. Well, that was the weird thing about what really came down after Obama was that the one part of democracy that was too big of a burden for these people was tolerance. Yeah. It was just like, finally, we get the relief that we didn't have to tolerate it. But there's no way democracy moves forward without it and without tolerance. And you know, and I know, what i don't understand it's i understand it i don't know why i'm saying it like you know it's all a shock to me but you go to new

york or you walk around here but mostly new york maybe a little bit of chicago but new york for sure where you know it is a very diverse town it is i mean at least but very segregated i know but i mean on the working level yes like day-to-day in the city people work and you walk around you see in everybody on the train and no way it that day to day in the city, people work and you walk around, you see in everybody. You're on a train. And no way. It works. Right. And it doesn't seem like it should, but it does.

It does. And then these people that are all up in arms about Mexicans and black people, they don't even have them in their fucking neighborhood. Right. Not even in their city. Right. Right. So that's the fear part.

I mean, like you guys are coming for them. I think that a couple of things i think you're absolutely right about that but there are there is this notion of people being afraid of of all the horrible things that that have been done to people like that yeah they're afraid of vengeance too they're afraid that oh that's right i've i what if these motherfuckers get me back what if what if they because you don't, the one thing I will say about these specific times, and I don't care where you're at. You, the reason when something happens, they pretend like they don't see it. Like they get to pretend like they don't know Donald Trump is racist.

They get to pretend like they don't know the policeman can be brutal. Because if they did acknowledge it, they'd be compelled to do something about it. Or deny it and live with that cancer in their soul. That's right. Which I think a lot of them do. That's right. And so with the component of the realization of things is also if you know what things really are, then you also know the other side of the coin is that what if people exact revenge for that? Well, yeah.

I mean, I just went to the, you know, I was down in Birmingham, Alabama, and I went to that, the monument, the big lynching monument. And then I went to the museum in Montgomery. And that was an issue that that's always been there is that, you know, by the time at slavery at its peak, they were way outnumbered. And then once it was ended, they were just sort of like, okay, just go. They knew all the time that at any point, which is why all that terrorism happened, all the lynchings happened as an example, but they were completely outgunned. And I think that's still the thing. It's not so much, I mean they they probably regret slavery on

some level but they're still afraid of the repercussion only now i think that human beings some people i think they regret slavery but the reason most of them regret slavery is because we're still here they didn't have a return plan right they didn't have a return to cinder plan just like the kids that they're stealing from these parents right right they didn't they didn't have a return to cinder plan. Just like the kids that they're stealing from these parents. Right, right. They didn't write any names down. Right, right. No cities. Right.

No ships wanted to take them. Right, right. But it's so funny. Even now, it's funny how America loses perspective constantly in matters like this. Like, really, I don't know how different Colin Kaepernick is from Muhammad Ali. And we still have never learned from that. Or Rosa Parks. I'm not talking about his vocation.

I'm talking about his stance and what it cost him. And how it galvanized the community. And how it raised awareness. He's going to be more famous for the thing that he stood for than he ever could for throwing a ball. And it's that whole thing. And the other thing is. Do you feel like he has galvanized the community? I feel like he has.

It's so funny because now we're- Now I'm going to start talking like a white guy. We're having- I mean, how are you guys doing? He's, he's, he's, he's, people got mad because Colin Kaepernick's, why are you doing this? Why are you playing football? This is America's, why, why, why? But the only time white people ever listen to us is when we're

running jumping dancing or sing so the only time white people sit around and watch black people is if they're doing something entertaining so it makes perfect sense if you want to get their attention do it while they're but even even beyond that one of the things that society seems to do is go well that, that black person is successful. So he's not he doesn't get to have that conversation anymore. He doesn't get to say. Right. But he's not regular. He's kind of one. Yeah. Like if you look at football players, a lot of people, why are they protesting police brutality? They're rich. But if you look at the physical attributes, the very physical attributes that get you drafted in the NFL as a black man, being big, black, fast, strong, aggressive, impervious to pain.

Yeah. You know, if you, those very physical attributes that get you drafted in the NFL get you killed when you're off that field. Right. If you have it on a draft report, you're high. Yeah. You go high on the draft. Yeah. If you have it on a police report, it's the reason the grand jury quits.

They go, well, shit, look at all this. Yeah. We had to shoot that nigga. Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't on the field. Right, right, right. He was doing that shit just in the town. Right, right, right. That was between the hazmarks.

We had no problem. We didn't know what he had in his hand. It wasn't a ball. Right. But when you were a kid, you know, and hanging out with these guys, like getting back to that idea, I think that was kind of sweet that they knew you couldn't handle it and they didn't want you to get fucked up. Yeah, yeah.

Those guys. They didn't. Yeah, they were hard and you were like, no, I wasn't. Fuck that guy. I wasn't. Like I remember they were beating this kid. They were beating him so bad. I go, hey man.

And I was a kid. Yeah. And I go, hey, that's, we should stop. And he said, hey, look here, man. This is the way this shit goes. And take your ass home. And another time. That landed, right? Yeah.

Because it wasn't... I knew they had patience for me, but at a certain point, hey, motherfucker, all right now. Now you're playing. Let the grown-ups beat the shit out of this guy. Get back on the porch. Don't try to run with the big dogs.

We deferred to your little bullshit difference, but that's enough. We always see that dynamic in that great Singleton movie. What the one was the one? Boys in Hood. No, the other one. Mama,

the boy, Baby Boy. Baby Boy, yeah. Oh, man. That's a fucking great movie. Yeah, yeah. Like, I talk about that movie. I want to talk to him

because I think that movie is a masterpiece. Did you see it? Of course, a bunch of times. Jody. Yeah, Jody. Tarazi. Snoop. All of it. But like that dynamic

that they looked out for him. They knew. He wasn't one of them. Yeah. And it's like you were lucky to be that guy. You're lucky to have their favor and their favor. Like you're lucky to have them see something redemptive in you that they didn't try to exploit.

Yeah. Because as great as it could be to somebody, that thing could be exploited. It could be exploited physically. It could be exploited emotionally. It could be exploited sexually. But they knew like some guys, for whatever reason, whether it was parenting or just the nature of who they were they have that ability to be that dude and there were dudes that would protect you from dudes who weren't like that yeah like it like this did they were the you know it's not it's not a mic it's not it's not one you know monolith

yeah a lot of and so there were dudes who would rob you or try to do whatever they could do and it was dudes who stopped them from doing it right because they Because they believe, you know, some people just like, fuck it. We here and we're going to try to take advantage of it. And it's just, you, you look back at it and you realize how, and it's one of the reasons I still believe in some kind of higher,

higher power. Cause I don't believe you can navigate all that bullshit just on your own with your own wherewithal. So it's one of the reasons I got to say that maybe there's something out there that is functioning past me. Right. And I've seen that at least to some degree in my personal life. Oh yeah.

I mean, I ain't going to church. Right. But no, just your ability to make it through and, and, and not in, and hold on to your heart somehow.

And your, and your, and, and your empathy and your compassion and your, I remember feeling bad. What was it? I was, I can't even remember

how old I was. I was coming home and these cats, they older cats, because I used to like to be on the older, because that was all the shit was.

Right. It was always, so they, hey, come here, you want to see this? We got this girl and she's, we're running a train on her. And I was like, what? It's like, so they, hey, come here, you want to see this? We got this girl, and we're running a train on her.

And I was like, what? So I go see, and they had this girl, and I was like, hey, man, I don't think she's with it. I don't even remember how I said it, but I said, and I said, that's not, I wouldn't have known what rape was. I wouldn't have known what sex was I wouldn't have known what sex was I wouldn't have known how to articulate I had to be 10, like 12

and these are kids around that age no they were older and she was older and but you felt it it was wrong

I knew it was wrong and I knew and here's the funny thing about it is I said she doesn't want to do this and I was smaller than them and I wasn't as tough as them and I was afraid of them but I said that she doesn't want to do this. Yeah. And I, and I was smaller than them and I wasn't as tough as them and I was afraid of them.

Yeah. But I said, get your stuff. Come on to the girl. And she got her stuff and they didn't let me do it out of sense of fear. And they didn't let me do it out of sense of intimidation that I would tell or that they, they could,

they, that I would do something physical. They let me do it because I saw them and they were ashamed that I had. Yeah. It was shame they did that to me. Yeah, they knew they were wrong. They knew.

But no one around them, they knew they were wrong. And they hit me and said, go home. But not beat me up, but just slap me around. They had to make a... Yeah. But they let me take her. Pose. And I walked her all the way home.

Wow. And so they're all these. She thank you? This is funny. So Mark would get her home. She lived in a different neighborhood. I had to walk past. And her brother sees his sister all disheveled and torn up,

starts chasing me around with a knife. And she didn't say anything for a while. And finally she goes, it wasn't him. He helped me, he helped me, he helped me. Oh, no. So he said, either you tell me who did it or I'm going to cut you. And I said, man, I live with them. I can't.

He said, well, I'm going to cut you. And I closed my eyes and he didn't cut me. And he slapped me. So I got beat up by him. And I got beat up by him. He slapped me all the way back to my leg. He just kept slapping me in the back of the head and kicking me in my back. You know, this kid just doing.

Because you're a kid, right? Yeah, but just like. Yeah. And then so I get back to my neighborhood and they kind of not talking to me. And then weeks later I'm at this place called Smitty's Liquor Store. We all hung out there. Yeah. And I see the motherfucker who, and he gets into his car and said, thanks, nigga.

And goes, cause I helped her brother he didn't say he wasn't nice he goes thanks nigga that was it that's all you got that's enough

that's all I got and you couldn't go to the guys who were in your neighborhood they were still mad at me right but you couldn't say like you don't know what I did

I couldn't say that no but I'm actually I'll never forget that moment yeah the moment of something bigger than you that's one of those moments where you get the the courage to do that in that moment yeah to you know see something's wrong in a real way and step in and i was horrible

i was so afraid that my mouth tastes like pennies. That was the first time, like the only time. Like I read a story one time, and it talked about the brass taste of fear, and I went, that's what that is. Really? Yep, that's how I knew it. It's real. It was, man, my mouth was dry, and it tasted like pennies, and I was horrified.

And so that was enough for you. You didn't have to get, you know, you never crossed any other sort of moral lines. I've crossed a lot of moral lines. I shouldn't, you know you never crossed any other sort of moral lines i've crossed a lot of moral lines i shouldn't you know right i've crossed a lot of moral lines but i this is weird to say but not many that i haven't uh i don't pretend like i don't know what they are and i don't pretend i don't give myself a break for them like more more in my marriage. Right. And some of the things I've done. But you never killed a dude. No.

Right. No. You have a pretty low bar. Thank you, Mark. I mean, the other stuff you can rationalize. Right, right, right. Yeah, right, right. You can kill my wife's sister, but I didn't kill nobody.

I didn't actually do that. I didn't do that. You know what I mean. I think there are some things that, like we were talking about before, whatever they were insulating you from, there are some things that break a spirit that, you know, will either crush a person or make them hard beyond redemption. Right.

And a lot of those cats, though I love them and that I learned a lot from them, they were, they were, they were. I've met four dudes in my neighborhood, I'd say, that without, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, but they were sociopaths. Sure, yeah, yeah. And they liked me, so it was cool,

but they were sociopaths. Right, because something broke in them where conscience was not, they couldn't entertain it. Yeah, they just didn't get it. They just- Oh, from the get-go. They just never-

They were always different. Yeah. I'm like, man, what the fuck is wrong with you? How do you think that's okay? I know. They were always, from the time we were kids- I wonder about that, that sort of, like now, because of social media platforms and also because of this president, that it's sort of unleashed a type of uh you know

if there's some narcissists out there who are who are like malignant fucked up people and they've got any juice at all it's their time it is man it's vampires walking the earth in the daylight but it's just like if you look at like you'll get trump rosanne kanye yeah there's like an arc there yeah there's something that's running through yeah Yeah. And all of them, and I would say that every person I know that is him, they have this malignancy in them. Yeah. And it's so obvious. Yeah.

Now, you can mask it with a level of genius. Sure. Or charm or like, yeah. Yeah. You can mask, you know. Right. sure or charm or like yeah yeah you can you know right and but but when it's naked and you see it for itself there's like i like i i i loved kanye i can't stand him now yeah i can't i i i can't you mean you've gotten past they're like well he's mentally ill no because black people do that

everybody go ever see this was if you make an album good enough for us yeah we will make excuses for you that's how bad we need to feel good right they're like you know that ain't gave me a right since his mama died you know we made excuses for r kelly i mean i know he peed on that girl but if you're gonna pee on somebody this is the album you need to do it too yeah i mean yeah bill cut me raped those people but what he gave us jello but we had they didn't let him off the hook no they, they didn't. It took a long time. It took a long time. But for people like that, the reason that they spark to him, that he's like that moth to the flame kind of thing, is because they internally have the same kind of feelings and malignancy and darkness that he has. They do. Like Roseanne with the whole Ambien thing.

And I'm like, Ambien makes you sleepy, not hate niggas. I never saw that. What is that all about? Well, she, like that's the thing knowing from having

a narcissistic father, like when you corner them, they got no way out but fuck you. Right. And you know, they'll make all the excuses but if they're down

for the count, they're not just gonna go down. No, no, they're gonna take some Yeah, you don't know what the go down. No, no, they're going to take something from the table too. Yeah, you don't know what the fuck's going to happen. Like the whole thing. I didn't know that Ape was. You called Susan Rice an ape earlier.

Yeah. You said, then you valued, so you can't pretend, but it's not even them. Yeah. We've had people like them. Yeah. Throughout history. Yeah. We've had people like them. Yeah. You know, throughout history. Yeah. What we have intended to have is so many people like them with voices and power who are letting them run unobstructed. Well, no.

Yeah. We always had them, but they didn't have a Twitter account. Yeah. They didn't have a way to just, you know, cause trouble. To sync up. Cause international trouble. Right. You're saying one thing.

So when you started doing comedy, how old were you? Oh, 21. Yeah? So you dropped out of school and were you headed in a bad direction? I was, you know, here's the thing. I just was dumb. Not dumb. But see,

but I would have never, I would have never thought that I wasn't. Yeah. Giving, giving, then you have these experiences that you process things

a different way. Yeah. But it was a frustrating process for me, so I just stopped going and then, and then, you know,

I work at the LA Times and I get to talk. Yeah. And I started doing comedy. Were you working at the LA.A. Times and I get to talk and I start doing comedy. Were you working at the L.A. Times first? Yeah. Doing what? Selling subscriptions on the phone. I remember I called Jay Leno one time.

Really? And he all but cussed me out. But did you know it was Jay Leno? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Of course. Oh, this wasn't when you were selling papers, or it was? I was selling papers and I called Jay Leno and he was like, I don want it and then years later I would be on his show. Yeah, I was on the show like 30 times

Yeah, and I would always bring it up and go I didn't say that anybody always he did say that to me But I started and I you know I started being away from the environment that I grew up in yeah And I would have to go to work all the time and I liked being in that environment Yeah, because your parents made you work or you know you had to work all the time. And I liked being in that environment. Yeah. Cause your parents made you work or you had to work. Oh no,

you're going, you're going. So I like being there. And I've been, I meet my wife and I see her, like I saw her and I knew I would marry. Where is she from? She's from Los Angeles too,

but she went to car. She lived in Carson. Incorporated. No, no. Carson's a real city. Yeah. I mean,

yeah. Black people did well well moved to Carson and then Cerritos uh huh that was it that was the migration they got the fuck out of LA

yeah but I saw her and then I wanted to I dug her and she didn't dig me and I was pursuing her and then she finally

started going out with me and I didn't have I didn't have I didn't have any prospects for the future, so I knew that if I passed, if I got a GED, that I could be a cop. That was the plan? Yep. So I said, I took my GED, and I got accepted to the L.A. Police Academy,

and then I said, when I get accepted, I'm going to ask you to marry me. Then I got accepted and was out in three days or four days or five days or some shit like that why? I got shin splints but really I just didn't want to do all that running really I just knew

I was like this is bullshit I'm not doing this and I didn't have a job but I had told her I got accepted that we'd get married so she started planning a wedding

so I had to fucking marry her shin splints but what compelled you to try stand-up? It was always, like I would always get girls by making them laugh. And I'd always been able to communicate. I remember taking a test as a kid, and they said my comprehension, like I could understand. Yeah. And these white people would come and take you to the library and give you ice cream and ask you questions and shit.

It was like weird. And then I would come back, and I was like an animal that had been touched by somebody civilized. They'd be like, why'd you go there with them? And so. So this one's okay this one can function they would just ask me questions they would just

ask me questions and give me ice cream and hang out but it was so I was like I I did I could comprehend

and I and I had a pretty good vocabulary for them and that was that was one thing they said so when I started working at the la times i would go get my hair cut and i would always talk i was always that's how i got

chicks to dig me yeah whatever yeah and these cats said if you think you're so funny because back then cats who were barbers so weed and so boosted yeah tax they did all barbers they but they were barbers it was all, it should be coming in the back. I remember going in stacks of VCRs and everything. Oh, yeah, yeah. So they were giving a concert and they,

at the Total Experience on Crenshaw with a group called Blue Magic and Robin Harris and they said, I was going to ask you about Robin Harris. That was the first time I'd ever seen him and they said,

if you think you're so funny, open this show. And I had never done comedy yeah get on my uh stage and in front of this audience that came to see this group and him and i said this is what i'm supposed to do and i instantly knew that's why i felt sorry for those dudes my neighbor i knew i would do this yeah that was it that was it how'd you do horrible because i didn't have any material. Right.

I just... Did you get to know Robin? Oh, yeah. Robin never liked me. No. Robin didn't like me to the last 30 days, last 60 days of his life. Now, he wasn't sick,

so we didn't know he was dying. Right. But he never liked me. Why? One time he said, here you are, you're going're gonna have everything i have and people gonna like you and you know and i said man and he used to intimidate people but i never let it i said i'm not scared of you man yeah and i told him everything you have i'm gonna have i just

you said yes and why would you do that in front of people it was the worst oh he said that to you he said it to me and then I said, I'm not scared of you, I have everything you have. You're right, I'm gonna have everything. But, but. It was just a territorial thing, competition. And then every time I would walk in, like I would have a guest set at the Comedy Act Theater. Yeah.

Joint close at 1130. Yeah. He would do all the way to 1127 and put me on while people were walking out. And I was still going over and over and over and over. Because he was hosting it? Mm-hmm. So that was your guy.

That was your nemesis. He wasn't. That was you. I loved and respected him, but he just wasn't gonna let me. And then until the last 60 days, right before he died, we didn't know.

He wasn't six. Right. Heart attack, right? Yeah. Narcolepsy, heart attack. So he started calling me. And then we would start hanging out. And then we would start talking

oh yeah and then we got very close matter of fact his only first and only comedy album Bebe's Kids I was the one that induced him

that was me that's me yep yeah he was something else man he was and nobody really knows him not in my world

he's one of those comics where you're like how do you know it just he was so young man he died when he was so young but he is the father of modern comedy. Not Richard Pryor.

Robin Harris. Yeah. He's not Richard Pryor. Robin Harris. Why? Def Jam. All that. That whole kind of genesis.

That whole kind of evolution. Who are the other guys? Well, in terms of leading, because what happened was Robin Harris made them come down to the hood to see these things. Oh, yeah. So you didn't have to. You didn't have to. Made who see? White people?

The agents and managers. Right. They would all, talent agents and development deals and all that kind of shit. They all came to the company. He brought them down. He did. And so, you know, I don't care if Chappelle's or, I mean, Rock was different because Eddie found him. Yeah.

But everybody else, like all those people, the Martins and the Waynes and all that kind of stuff. Right. Well, Richard's richer. It's a different time. Yes. So you're saying the next generation revolved around Robin doing that, bringing people in. There's never been a more popular group of black comics that are, he is the the if we were starting a tree yeah they would have all had sprung from that no yeah like the Eddie's know they had that

yeah but all these people you know now right from the real hood yep in a way they're the because Eddie they're all them right they are all from him who are the other guys should be I'd say Bernie I said Rick I'd say Steve I'd say Bernie, I'd say Cedric, I'd say Steve, I'd say Chappelle, I'd say Martin. Oh, yeah. You know, Chris Tucker. Oh, yeah. Eddie Griffin, all the cats. Yeah.

Yeah, they would all be for me. Yeah, Bernie was so good, man. Yeah, he was. He was. What was your first break? What did I? I remember the first time I ever made $1,000 doing comedy. That's the best, right? With Martin Lawrence, I was playing the ride. What is that on? It's on Wilshire. What is it? I remember the first time I ever made $1,000 doing comedy. That's the best, right?

With Martin Lawrence, I was playing the rock. What is that on? It's on Wilshire. What is it? The Roxy? Not the, what is it? On Wilshire? Oh, the El Rey?

It's the El Rey. Okay. It is, but it wasn't the El Rey. It's that theater you mean? Yeah, it was there. Is it the El Rey? Because I know this one. It's the El Rey now, but it wasn't there.

Oh, okay, okay. And so I opened for him and he gave me $1,000 and I started crying. and so I opened for him and he gave me $1,000 and I started crying. I was like, thanks so much. $1,000? And I started crying

and I called my wife and I go, baby, I got $1,000. Yeah. We gonna make it. Yeah. You did.

But then, when did you do that HBO thing? You know how I got that HBO special, the one we were talking about earlier? I got that. My manager was a cat named Tony Spires. Tony Spires, he held the barrier of black competition.

He managed me. And so they were having those half-hour tryouts. And by that time, I had worked, and I wasn't working anymore, and I was just trying to be special. But you're doing all those clubs that we talked about earlier. Yeah, so I was doing all that. So you're kind of hard, comedy-wise. Yeah, I was.

Yeah. I mean, I had comedy chopped. It just hadn't had exposure. So they came out to this place called the Town House in the hood. Yeah. And they were auditioning Jay Anthony Brown, Eddie Griffin, Joe Torrey, and Jamie Foxx. Right? Yeah.

He said, I can't get you an audition, but I can let you host. They'll let you host yeah so i would do 10 minutes bring somebody on the best somebody on do five more minutes bring somebody else 10 minutes at the end then i wrapped it up at the end they gave me and eddie griffin the special well the hosting is a good shot because like if you do have chops and you go get them yeah as opposed to just be scared it would be It would be someone who has like a new guy. Right. Then they're like, who's this fucker? Right. That's what happened too.

And I got it. And I wasn't even excited that I got the special. I was excited because I knew it was 30 grand. Remember, it was 30 grand to get it. Yeah, yeah. And you could keep your benefit. It was for the... Right, right.

You get the SAG. First time you get insurance. Yep. Yep. And so I had... The first time I had it that wasn't from the LA Times was from the... Yeah. But I remember watching it and I'm like, you know, you were talking about family and stuff,

and it wasn't the material. I was just sort of like, there's something going on. I was like, this guy means business. Yeah, man. You had to be. Because all I ever knew was shut the fuck up, pick this drink. It was urgent. Yeah, right.

It was urgent. Right. Right. It was urgent. Yeah, right. It was urgent. Right, right. And then after that, what happened? You just started working on the road a little bit? I worked on the road a little bit. Then we got- When did you start hosting on BET? Shortly after that.

Were you hosting? I was the first host of Comic View. You were the first? I was the very first host. I didn't watch it much, but I just remember Talent, wasn't he one host forever? I was the very first host. Like, I didn't watch it much, but I just remember, like, Talent, wasn't he one host forever? I was the very first one. But he hosted it for years,

didn't he? Here's how it happened. I hosted it for two years. Yeah. I was the first host. I hosted it for two years. The second year, I thought,

I want to do something different. Right. And I quit in the middle of a show. And they started saying we're gonna have alternate hosts uh-huh and so then the next one was cedric and then they had all that but i was the host for two years was there a guy named talent or i'm making that talent did that oh yeah but it was way like oh way later way later yeah yeah yeah way later like i was a matter of fact

when i did bt they only uh i don't even know if I can say this because they wouldn't pay me. And so you couldn't have a lawyer. Yeah. And they wouldn't let, you couldn't have a lawyer. And if you asked for a lawyer, it would be trouble. But you could go to an arbitrator in D.C. They had all the fucking rules. They made a mistake in the contract that said I was supposed to be paid X amount of dollars per segment, not per show.

But what they did was they would, I taped 150 some shows. Oh my God. And they would cut them up and it'd be best ofs. So they had to pay you. So we go, my lawyer's name was Aaron Fox. It was a normal corporation. No, Aaron Fox. I don't normal corporation. No, Aaron Fox. I don't know if they represent him or me.

But we had to go to D.C. to an arbitrator. We are sitting there. That's me, my lawyer, their lawyers, and the people from BET. And BET makes this argument. And they said, did you let him have a lawyer? And they said, no. They said, but he knew he wasn't getting paid there. I said, I only knew with the contract.

I had no idea. I couldn't have a lawyer yeah so I had a litigate I had a litigate about it and have a little I couldn't have an entertainment or I could over the Lord the the arbitrary looks down and said you hit you you you had representation BET and they said yes he said you didn't I said no they him. And the dude started crying right there. And I said, did we win? They had to pay me all this money. And for segments.

For segments. For segments. And it was like six segments a show. Right. For three years. They fucked up the language of the contract. Yep. They did.

They didn't expect anybody would call them on it. Well, I wouldn't have because I couldn't read. I couldn't read that shit. I didn't expect anybody would call him on it. Well, I wouldn't have because I couldn't read. Like, I wasn't like, I didn't have. You couldn't read that shit anyway. Yeah, I didn't know what the fuck that was. Right. Boy, I know this. He started crying when they had to pay it.

The BET guy? Yeah, the executive. He got fired and everything. Shit. His name was Curtis. I won't say his last name, but he sure did get fired. He started crying in there. I was like, why is he crying?

He don't have to write this shit. But he wrote the contract funny man and then after that so when did you start touring with the Kings of Comedy

is that a long time after that a long time after that so we did we did that but you did BET but when and then you're touring because I mean

you were a big act right well we did we did BET we did Half Hour we did another Half Hour I did this thing called Devil Rush

that was with Bobby Pastorelli and it was a dying English show. That really didn't take. But I got, I started making money on the road, so I moved from the inner city into the valley. Yeah. And that's how the Hughleys came about because I had white neighbors

for the very first time in my life. So when you toured, though, at that time, because someone like Bernie, man, if you listen to Bernie's first stuff, I mean, that was for black audiences. There was no question. So a lot of you guys, and I imagine it still happens, is that it was almost all black audiences. Yes. But that's a big audience. See, but back then, it's still a pretty good-sized audience, but now they have so many more options.

Right. It was like we were back when they had the TV but with three channels and we were on one of the channels right so it was us

and white people and Mexicans that was all you had right and so we were a big big act but it came about I was on the Hughleys

they had gone out and done a modified version of that Bernie and Sid and Steve and they were playing theaters it was okay but they wanted to move up

to arenas but you had the Hughleys I had the Hughleys that was on for like that was one of those things I remember right but it was one of those things

where you got moved off a network and then they got you another network yeah UPN sure did that was fucking crazy right you thought you were done

yep I never did though I always knew I remember when they told us we were cancelled on ABC I said I don't know how but I when they told us we were canceled on ABC I said I don't know how but I'm gonna get us

200 episodes and I did and did it syndicate? yeah oh that's great yeah it ain't what it was it ain't like a Cosby syndication

but then again I ain't gotta pay out a lawsuit so it's uh you don't gotta go broke blind be disgraced forever

hey be erased stop telling the truth be erased from history. Right. Yeah. But then we, you know,

I was on the, the set was on, set and see were on the Steve show. Bernie was just crushing them on the road. I was on my show. Bernie hadn't had his show yet.

He hadn't had his show yet. And so they wanted to play Arena so they bought me on and we toured for three years and then Bernie got a show. That was huge, that tour. It was very big. And then Spike did the movie.

Then Spike did the movie. Did he do it, like, he did it early on, though, right? Or did he wait three years? It was his third year. Oh, it was. So you guys were tight. Yeah, we were ready to go. But it was weird for me.

What happened for me is I had done another HBO special 30 days before, and it had aired. It's called Going Home. And it had aired about 40, 35, 30, 40 days before we were going to shoot the Kings of Comedy. Oh, really? So I had to write. I had written an hour. Right.

So I had to write 30 more minutes. In a month? In a month. It was horrible. Oh, it's the worst. It was horrible. Because you spent's the worst. It was horrible. Because you spent like a year putting that HBO shit together.

A couple years. Right, and it's tight and you know how it goes. Man, man. How'd you feel it came out? I don't know. I wouldn't have noticed. It was all right.

Yeah? It was, I wish that I'd have gotten, I wish I could have done my HBO special on the Kings of Comedy, but I did it then. But I've done, this is my September 18th will be for Netflix.

Contrarian will be my 11th special. That's amazing. 11. That's great. Three books and 11. I've written three books and three specials in the last six years. Well, this is the time. It is, yeah.

If you're giving away money, and there's all these different options. And it's sort of hard, though, when you hear about how some of the guys we know and came up with the money they're making, and then they make your offer. There's some part of your brain, but you're still like,

still a lot of money. You know what's funny? I had no idea. So Michael goes, we got you a Netflix commercial so i said all right thanks man that's cool dope i want to do it uh and so we i start writing it and getting together and then i hear monique say they only offer to have me it doesn't work hey wait a minute how much did they offer me like it was months like i had been excited about the deal i had no idea

what i was going to assume mike rodenberg would give you a good deal, right? I just didn't even think about it because I thought, because when we did specials, it was like a calling card. Just let me show you. Right, right, right. Let me show off for you a little bit. You're just happy to get it. To get the exposure. Right, I want you to see what I'm doing these days.

And then I said- And they told you how much? Yeah, and I was like, oh, okay, all right. I'll take it. I'll do it. But when I was looking at like because i i've watched you all all the time you like um you know you had the hugleys but then like any of us you know you got to keep moving you got to keep working and you did the tour and then like how

did bernie tigan he dropped a heart attack too no he had uh sarcoidosis uh which is a lung which is oh yeah so were you with him towards the end too? Yeah, yeah. But the sad thing about that is that we were in Vegas. I was doing a gig in Vegas. And there was this fake rumor that Bernie had died. And we found out it wasn't true. So I said, I'll go see him.

I'll make this run. Had all these days booked, so I'll go see him. And then he died right when I was winding down. Go check it out? Go check him out. And I remember when they had his funeral, I was performing in Phoenix. Yeah. So I took a private jet from Phoenix to go to his funeral and then back to Phoenix.

And I remember the biggest testament you could have to somebody yeah is to honor them and go see them and then do what you guys have done yeah which is to be on stage right after my old man died I was on stage yeah so uh one thing I did learn is that people say all kind of shit like he knows that you. Nah, you got to tell somebody you love him. Right. I think that that's just the coward's way. That's what people say so that they let you off the hook. Right.

But how could he know something I didn't tell him? Yeah. That is truly a great regret in my professional and personal life. That you didn't get to say that to Bernie? That I didn't get to say that to him, yes. He's another one of the greats. He is. That people don't necessarily put up there.

Well, I think in our community, he's very popular. Oh, good. Yes. But the question I was going to ask, though, is like, you know, like when I look at, you tried a lot of shit. I did. A ton. A ton.

I mean, I remember when they gave you the CNN show and they didn't have comedy on CNN and you're setting up this panel show and you wanted to be informative but funny and it didn't quite man catch but you know it's funny what um we did a million people a weekend really a million yes for a weekly show for for a weekend show and they and they ran it a few times right ran it a few times and we did it almost uh we did it from october from October all the way to like April. But what happened was the economy tanked. And so that money that they used to have to have experiments, they didn't have anymore. And Larry King wouldn't let us use his studio. So I was living in L.A.

and they got me an apartment in New York. So I would have to do it and rehearse there and go on the road. So I was home for 12 hours a week so I had to so I had to get I wanted to see my family you got

how many kids you got three yeah and so they said well either you can do it from have to do it from New York

or you can't do it and that's how it ended but the same apartment I have in New York now is the one CNN got me oh really you just kept it you kept it

yes I did yes I did and then you did like you worked with Jay, you did a lot of segments for Leno's show. But you're always like, at some point,

you know, when you look at your career and like I have to do the same thing where you're like, you can't look at it as like, well, I tried a bunch of shit that didn't work out.

Sure, I can. Right, but you still look at it like that's a career, man. Right? I never, I haven't had that much, it's not that, to me, it's one of the things

i have always loved about you and respected about your kind of uh journey yeah is that all of that was getting you ready for this moment right that's true all of it yeah so you gotta so i can't now like when i look back and they, you know, I've written three books. I won a Peabody Award. I got a radio show I dig. Yeah. I'm pretty respected.

Yeah, very. I do what I want. Right. I say what I want. If a motherfucker asks me a question, they know I'm going to tell them the truth. You know, so, and I have opportunities to do things and I'm asked to do things all the time and I get to say no a lot. It's the best. It is the best, man.

And so I can't in the end and and and I still comedically love what I do. Yeah. It's a great thing about getting to the age right and having, you know, had some failures or at least some things that happen is happen, is that you become truly fearless at some point. Right. At some point, it's like, what's going to fucking happen now? Right, right. What are you going to do? Right.

I remember when people got so mad at me. I remember I was on Jay Leno and the Don Imus thing had happened. He called them nappy head hoes. I was on Jay Leno and I said Imus thing had happened. And those, you know, he called them nappy head hoes. And I was on Jay Leno and I said, that was wrong. Those girls weren't hoes, but they were nappy head. And what the fucking firestorm that started. From who? From the women in the black community were angry and they wanted me to apologize.

And I'm like, I'm not fucking apologizing for a joke. And they were boycotting me and protesting me. Really? Showing, oh man, it was insane. And then it was bad. It was horrible. Like Steve wouldn't let me on the show because he said people are mad at you. And there's a lot of people that wouldn't book me.

Really? Yes. Because the black women were mad. Were mad. And I said, which was ridiculous because my wife is black. My mistresses have all been black. My mistress is evolving black. So I was clearly making a joke. But I never felt like you shouldn't have to apologize for a joke.

And I defended a man that made a bad. I think you're disingenuous if you give yourself leeway that you don't give to somebody else. And it taught me a lot. It taught me I could take a punch. And it made me unflinching in my convictions. I believe what I say. And I'm willing to, you know, if you don't dig it, I get it. But fuck you if you can could take a punch. Yeah. And it made me, I'm flinching in my convictions. I believe what I say. Yeah. And I'm willing to, you know, if you don't dig it, I get it.

But fuck you if you can't take it too. And you took Megyn Kelly to task, which was beautiful. Yeah. You know what I don't like about people? People play home games. Like really, you know, Sean Hannity, all those cats. Yeah. You know, Tucker Carlson, they're cowards because they only play in their cathedrals.

Right. They only play home games. That's right. She was on Fox when you did that, right? She was on, remember back when she was on Fox when she was a racist

and now she gets to pretend like she's not. It ain't working. Like just because, I look at her and I'm like, you pretty monster. Like, it's just because you cook

with olive oil, don't mean you don't, like so, so it was, it was one of those times where, you know, like I've never been scared to have my, I can't remember, what was it exactly about? It was, it was one of those times where, you know, like I've never been scared to have my-

I can't remember. What was it exactly about? It was about, I had another book at that time called Black Man White House. Yeah. And it was- That was the second book? It was the second book. It was the oral history of the Obama years.

Yeah. And it was told like, you know, how Twain did that oral history kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I pretended like I was there. It was kind of like Forrest Gump. I pretended like I was there doing all of these like Forrest Gump I pretended like I was there doing all of these things and it was hilarious

and it had done really well and we were originally there to talk about that but then Philando Castillo had gotten killed and there had been this rash of shootings

and so it morphed into that kind of conversation and she had that dude Mark Furman come out before me unbeknownst to me and I'm like the LAPD guy

yeah I'm like a disgrace the monster yeah look when you are so racist did you get a black murderer off yeah you're not an expert that they should ever use the only place he could be an expert on the fight so we had this huge fight and uh you know that like like 30 million people saw because we yeah I remember watching it it was

and then I was so mad and incensed uh that wrote this book, How Not to Get Shot and Other Advice from White People. Oh, you think that was part of the trigger of it? It was a trigger. It definitely I think that that's and it took me a year to about a year to sell the premise. And my agent, my book agent, Richard and Peter, my publisher, my editor and Doug, who wrote the book with me. But thank you to white benign racism and white indifference, because it is catapulting such a level of creativity. Whether it's LeBron James with his shut up and dribble because of Laura Ingraham. Uh-huh. Or this book because of Megyn Kelly. Uh-huh.

It's that blonde, white, indifferent, benign, but vitriolic racism that just is really kind of what everybody- Ingraham's not benign. No, she's not benign. Megyn's pretending to be benign. She's not. But they use the same paroxysm. No, I know.

I'll say that but thank you to them but yeah this book is funny but it's also it I'd imagine it's probably

pretty hilarious to the black community but it's also a pretty scathing fucking indictment of white people it is

yeah it is but I laughed at it yeah well because you have perspective right each chapter is. It's like an amalgamation of all the advice.

The things that white people tell black people. All the time. Yeah. Always. Yeah. Yeah. And all the stuff you've experienced. Right.

Yeah. Like don't. Like how to name your kids. Yeah. Where to drive. How not to get shot by the police. Yeah. How to act.

And then the subcategories or how to be nice and quiet. What kind of music should you listen to? Stop making white people say the N word. How to not come from a single parent household.

That's tricky. Yeah, it is. But it's all those, you know, they come from these things. Do you know that if you listen to white people, you think every black person

lives in Chicago? Like, I don't care what happens in Sacramento. They go, what about Chicago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about Chicago? Most people don't.

That would be like, that's casting it. That's saying everybody that Chicago is really kind of what, you know, they represent the moral failing

that we all have. And that is really kind of biased and racist. But you would never say that because, that, you know, a lot of people die of opiates in West Virginia. But that isn't indicative. That isn't the total.

That isn't what white people are. So it's amazing. But, you know, the white people are keeping that shit under wraps because of shame. It is. Because of shame. Yes. You know, like the amount of white people that are dying from that shit from all classes. Yes. You know, like the amount of white people that are dying from that shit from all classes. You know, like, and there's an amazing book called Dreamland about the opioid epidemic.

But it's like, you know, 50, 60,000, 70,000 a year. Yeah. But they can't even address it. Like, you know, the black community had no, no, they had to address crack. Yeah. Yeah. Because we were going to jail. Yeah.

And dying. Yeah. And crazy. Yeah. Yeah. address crack. Yeah, because we were going to jail. Yeah, and dying. And going to prison, yeah. And crazy. Yeah, it's like when they bling up black on black crime, it's like saying, well, if

there was a bank that got robbed all the time and the police get to do it because look at it, they're scared it's black on black crime, which is really bullshit because crime

is about proximity. Black neighborhoods aren't any more dangerous than white neighborhoods just because they have black people in them. They're dangerous more inherently dangerous because they have have black people in them. They're dangerous

more inherently dangerous because they have poor black people in them. Right. Show me a safe, poor neighborhood. Right. You won't be able to

because they're, because. Right. And class is not something that's talked about. That's, but they, because they want it to,

they want those to be the marching orders but I will say that just like if something happened to you, climate is about proximity, if something happened to you, they would talk to your girlfriend first

or your family first. They want to wait, you know, yeah, I get it. I get all that. Let's see who it is. And that's the same thing. You tend to hurt the people you're around. But the people have used,

I fundamentally believe that there's never been a situation that has been visited on black people or people of color that was so horrible, so atrocious, so gruesome, so brutal that America went, you know, that's enough. I don't think they've ever been so,

whether it's Emmett Till or no matter what it is, I don't care if it's a child strapped to a fucking fan, a motor and thrown and mutilated. America's tolerance or uh they have a high tolerance for the agony of black people they just don't they don't care about it they're indifferent and and so when like the question i had in my mind and obviously i can't you know it's like i i can't speak to you as a representative for all black people but i i like when this

administration took control and when sessions was made attorney general, I have to assume that, you know, as as disheartening and heartbreaking and horrible as it was, there was some element within the black community that was like, now, here we go again. Right. They're like elected officials being racist and hating black people isn't new. It's retro. It's really been very few people in the Oval Office or any other office that didn't that they weren't. But we didn't know it as viscerally as his generation, like our generation, you know, because we're the same age and we've been through some presidencies. But to be shamelessly racist and and provoke racism was a will before us. I would say I grew up. I lived in Los Angeles doing a Watts riot. So I can't. I'm the first one of my mother's children.

The first one that had the full rights of an American citizen. The first one. So, I mean, although I wasn't a voter and all that. So I wasn't aware. I mean, obviously, I wasn't aware, but it still happened in my life. Right, right, right. So I still happen in my life. The fact that the Voters Rights Act has to be, it's not in perpetuity.

You have to keep voting on it and doing it over and over again. So it's just, I think we get to detach ourselves from kind of everyday experiences if we're not having them. detach ourselves from kind of everyday experiences if we're not having them but i don't think this seems trump and and his kind seemed familiar to me yeah they do they don't seem they if you look at the the popularized notion of the average american around the world yeah the the perception of us he embodies all of it yeah there's on some level he's like you know it makes complete sense that he's president right so when you when you look at what how we perceive in europe how we perceive bellicose fat lazy bully immoral immoral what is he greedy right so you he embodies so i i've always i said this that barack ob Obama it was who this nation aspired to be

Trump is who we are yeah terrible it's true that's who we are yeah this couldn't live this couldn't this couldn't and then what cracks me up is when people go well you know you know he can't look at the unemployment rate for black people it's at a historic low so how can it be racist I beg to differ during slavery it was zero percent and they hated niggas. So you can work at two months.

Yeah. So let's not pretend the fact that they are that you that people are employed means that we have a level of acceptance

and tolerance and it's kumbaya. No, it's not. Yeah. Well, man, it's great to talk to you. Always, man. And I'm glad I got a chance to do it. I love the book. It's funny's okay. No, it's not. Yeah. Well, man, it's great to talk to you. Always, man. And I'm glad

I got a chance to do it. I'm glad I got the book. It's funny. It's good. It's informative. It made me feel, you know, it made me look at myself.

Yeah. What'd you feel about it? Well, you've already done it. You let a black dude in your garage and it's been great. Yeah. And I'm taking something.

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, take whatever you want on here. Just don't hurt me. Thanks, man. what a pleasure D.L. Hughley I love it I loved having him here again Contrarian his new special is now available to stream on Netflix and his uh most recent book How Not to Get Shot and Other Advice from White People, is available wherever you get books. Oh boy. Oh yeah. Alright. I'll pick up an axe.

It's been a while. How my fingers. Let's see what happens. guitar solo Boomer lives! new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family.

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