WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 970 - Annie Lederman

Episode Date: November 22, 2018

Comedian and writer Annie Lederman saw her adolescence take a turn for the worse after a childhood car crash. She was growing up with learning disabilities and attending a Quaker school. Then after the crash she was making choices she didn’t want to make and finding herself in situations that left lasting scars, physically and emotionally. Annie tells Marc how she pulled herself out of the darkness, started her comedy career and ended up in an unexpected relationship that helped her process her trauma. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace, Headlong: Surviving Y2K, and SimpliSafe. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what the fuck is happening what the fuck turkey day

what does that even mean why would i say that was that even necessary turkey i don't even think i've ever used turkey day as a saying or as a way to describe thanksgiving it's turkey day who says that it's like this is gonna be fun who says that i don't say either of those things all right we're gonna we're gonna eat the thing. It's Thanksgiving and I'll cook and I'll do all right. Okay. No, it'll be good. That's my version of that sounds fun. No, it'll be good. It's gotten easier for me. It's actually going pretty well. I only got cranky for about 10 minutes. This is only day one. I've done a lot of the cooking already. You're going to be listening to this on Thursday. Today is Wednesday and I've knocked out most of the meal because as

some of you know who listen to the show, I do a lot of the cooking around here. We flew in, me and Sarah the painter, and we went to, we checked in the hotel. We went to my mother's house and said hello to her and went to dinner with her and John, John the Jazzman. He's not really a jazz man. He's now 80-something. I think he's 80, maybe 81 he's going to be. My mom's getting up there.

I can't say her age. 37, the last she told me was the age. 37, I think, is where we capped off. But I think she's older than that. That's all I'm going to say because she enjoys listening to the program. I don't need to hear about it. So we went out to dinner,

had a fairly mediocre but large plate meal. I think that's the way it works down here in Florida, that it's not about quality. It's about what you can box up and take home and eat for three days. Not my mother, really, but I think for most people. Did I mention Annie Letterman is on the show today? Annie Letterman is here.

I've known Annie a long time. She used to open for me occasionally, and I like her. She's kind of a, how do you describe Annie? She's got moxie. She's got edge. She's a little filthy, but not but she's funny funny so right when we got here tuesday night whole foods snagged the brussels sprouts snagged all the stuff i needed now those of you who are listening regularly heard my big plan for kabocha squash

that was the the triangular sections uh rubbed with ghee and then sprinkled with garam masala and then roasted. Well, we got to Whole Foods, no kabocha squash. So I didn't freak out. I wasn't going to go on a journey looking for it. There was a real good chance that most people wouldn't give a shit either way that was eating it. But if they didn't have it at Whole Foods, it wasn't going to happen. wouldn't give a shit either way that we're eating it. But if they didn't have it at Whole Foods,

it wasn't going to happen. So I decided to just get the yams, but then I decided not to do it the way that I was going to do it. I'm going to do it like the squash. So this is the predicament right now, and then we can talk about deeper things, is that I cut up the yams in sections and then I rubbed them.

I just coated them with coconut oil and garam masala and salt and then roasted them, but they don't have the same texture as squash. They get a little mushier and I thought they would brown, almost fry up like. They did not. But they taste great and they look good. But I'm in a situation right now where I've got about less than 24 hours to decide whether or not I should just go ahead and mash them. Like I could serve them in the cubes that are mushy cubes because they're yams,

or I could mash them and make them uniform and maybe garnish it with some shredded coconut or something. Still an exciting, provocative recipe, but now I'm just to mash or not to mash. That's where I'm at right now. And I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's not an easy place to be. All right, so let's get down to business but it's not an easy place to be. All right, so let's get down to business. Let's get down to the emotional situation.

Where are you at? What's going on? Now, I'm going to talk directly to you. You know who you are. Okay, if you're listening to this, it's Thanksgiving. You're plugged in. Maybe you're even on your way,

but this is crisis management right now, and I do this every year, but if you've pulled away to get your mind off things or pull yourself out of an emotionally precarious, tense situation with family, spouse, that's family, kids, still family, that neighbor that you don't like there, not quite family, but they call it family anyways, doesn't count. But my point is, do we need to take a walk is it time to take a walk how cold is outside did you come prepared do you have the right uh sweater is there a sweater upstairs that you have from when you were growing up that you could put on if you didn't bring a sweater because you don't live in a cold place anymore is there a hat available

what i'm saying is if you're about to lose your mind, if you're about to unload on your uncle, your father, your mother, that neighbor, you could probably unload on the neighbor. You know what I mean? What do you really got to lose? So your parents will say, like, you really hurt Mrs. Johnson's feelings or Mr. Civics. Is that a weird last name? How about Mr. Spandowski's feelings when you unloaded on him because of his wrong-minded political views? You can live with that. With the parents or the sisters and brothers, I don't know.

That stuff can reverberate for months, maybe years. So before you do that, take a walk. Let's go outside, get a breath of fresh air. Let's think it over. Because honestly, my mother's boyfriend, John, he's a nice guy. And I guess and I like him. He's one of those people he talks a lot, tell stories. And, you know, it could seem like, wow, I've heard this story. This is the ninth time I've heard this story. I don't think he's listening to as much music as he used to, which is odd. I think that he should because it kept his mind occupied.

My point is that I will probably snap at him at least once, one good one, before I leave. And my mother, I think I mildly snapped at her, but then it became clear to me because Sarah the painter said that we're both similar that maybe that's just the way we communicate emotionally sometimes but I'm saying that you might not be at that point you might be in a crisis situation here's a couple other things I want you to remember they're old they're old people not maybe you're not as old as me but maybe they're just older people but when they get old they're're not gonna change. Nothing you're gonna say is gonna change them.

What you're gonna do really is just distract them from the thing that's never gonna change and make them upset with you, either angry or hurt. And then you've accomplished nothing other than set yourself up for an apology of some sort in the near or distant future. So if you're taking a walk now, it's the right thing to do. See, breathe it in. Remember, you grew up here. Remember, your wife grew up here. Remember, this is where your parents live now. Remember when you were a

kid and everything was okay? That shit's over. Oh, sorry. That shouldn't have been part of the guided meditation. I apologize. I apologize. i'm not even getting laughs from my girlfriend anymore if there's one fucking person she's in the room i can oh the towel's here hey you guys something real is happening the towels are here. How many? I get laughs, but you're also working? Okay. All right. Okay.

Okay. How many towels? That's a lot of towels. What? You're kissing me? You can do that on the mic. Wasn't that a nice moment? The house cleaning staff brought towels. We had a small discussion about why she wasn't laughing.

And she made me feel that she did laugh occasionally at me. And we had a small discussion about why she wasn't laughing and she made me feel that she did laugh occasionally at me and we had a kiss that's what that's what's happening the day before thanksgiving right now looking at the ocean tomorrow we're in the shit people we're in the shit all right it's all happening but here's what happened the other day we're staying at this hotel and we go down for breakfast we get to the lobby and there's a fucking fire alarm going on like loud there's that flashing light there's something being said like yeah please leave the building but it's like the entire fucking lobby. So right when we get off the elevator, the security guy's like, don't worry, don't worry.

It's a test. Don't worry. Everything's okay. And that was enough, right? He was wearing a uniform. Okay. We'll believe you. Guy with a uniform, security guy.

But then we go into breakfast thinking that it might not last that long. And we're seated and we order food and it's like i'm not even sure what the sound was but that was annoying enough to give you the idea of it flashing light flashing light flashing light flashing light and everybody is sitting there just eating their fucking breakfast families of people just you know pass me the waffle is that syrup you want to taste this kids just nobody is even registering it and it is loud it is. And it is loud. It is oppressive. It is menacing. But everyone, because they were told it was okay, is just sitting there in this chaotic

alarm situation. Except for me, I was like, what the fuck? How long is this going to go on for? Now, I'm not saying I'm better than other people, but at some point I was like, why are we tolerating this? But that's not the analogy or metaphor i'm trying to illustrate i just thought it was a fitting metaphor for where we're at globally and culturally just people families of all kinds sitting there eating as if nothing's happening and there's a fucking fire alarm loud as shit just wailing and everyone's sort of like this is good do you like your pancakes are we going to the beach today and i kind of realized i i kind of feel that way

all the time because i i look at the news a lot and I see the rising waters. So that was the experience I had. To me, it was like, all you need is one guy with a little bit of authority to tell you there's nothing to worry about and you'll sit through the alarm. You'll sit through all of them and you'll enjoy your waffle. So Annie Letterman is here. She wrote on the last Sasha Baron Cohen show, and she's been doing stand-up a long time, and I think I met her in, God, where did I meet her?

I think I met her in New York, and she opened for me in Philly. I know that. And she's unique, and she's funny, and this is her and I talking back at the garage. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance,

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Yeah. But, like, where did I meet you first? We went to a meeting together. Oh. We went to a meeting in Silver Lake, I think. Really? Out here? And you were like, it's at 8 a.m. And I was like, are you seriously going to fucking make me get up at 8 a.m., you piece of shit?

Yeah. This fucking asshole. And you did it. But that didn't stick, though, huh? I don't, I mean, I did my 90 in 90. I quit drinking in 2009. Yeah. January 28th and then.

Yeah. And I did my 90 in 90, so I went once a day for 90 days right then I really started to not I don't know I didn't want to talk about drinking all the time and I didn't want to I just started doing I quit drinking the first after my first open mic so I was like really kind of wanting to put as much energy into stand-up as I could you were just starting out then uh in 2009 yeah but you were like but you were a new york comic uh-huh right and you just moved out here yeah but you were were you out here permanently or it was um i ended up going

back and forth but i was out here for i didn't know you in new york i knew you because you used to hang with some pretty dirty guys uh who like norton and stuff yeah yeah like that's how i knew you you're like one of the women that could run with that mess of people yeah it was fun I like I loved going on the road to the gym that was great yeah oh that's right you opened for gym I opened for gym for a little while that was like my uh that was your training well yeah it definitely trained me in some shit I mean I remember the first time I opened for him was in uh Caroline's hit me up and I had done like their Caroline's funniest or whatever right like do one minute of material yeah so horrible I mean right to do one minute of material i couldn't

even imagine the worst um and so caroline's had me and i guess he wanted a female opener to kind of balance him but i remember him saying to me he's like he's like what i like about you and you're like me and the fact that you'll tattletale on yourself like it's like constant like self confession i guess but it's just like sometimes i'm like annie shut the fuck up like let people draw their own don't tell everyone what's wrong with you immediately but i can't like so those were your first big paying gigs were working for working opening for jim yeah and then i got i did but that audience i mean that audience is like i would imagine you know mostly men uh you have filthy men yeah, but shamelessly filthy and kind of sweet.

Yeah. I mean, okay, so the way I got the gig, I remember I was at a coffee shop. I'll never forget it. And I got the text or the call or something about opening for him. From the manager? Yeah, and I had never met Jim before, so I was so excited. I was just a fan of his. He saw you somewhere?

They offered him. He was like, who are the newer female comedians or whatever, or whoever, who are the openers? I remember I was leaving a coffee shop, and I just got really confident. I kind of just sharted. I remember I sharted a little.

For real? Yeah, I swear to God, I fucking shit my pants a little. I just told Jim that story recently. You told Jim when you heard that you got it? Yeah, I was excited. I was like, was like oh my god so you like i thought that was just a saying like no i shit my pants i was so excited i shit my pants yeah i shit my pants well shitting your pants you know is happening so it's different i always feel like it's so

the shard is such a more of like more of a betrayal because you really trusted yourself sure yeah yeah well you know but you sometimes you're sort of like, it's not full trust. Yeah. But I took the leap of faith. I said, it's a good day today. It was like birds were chirping in Brooklyn. I was like so excited. I'm leaving this coffee shop.

And then I called my dad and I was like, I just shit my pants. Just for that, you called him? Well, yeah. I wanted to talk about the gym thing and then I also wanted to tell him about that you shit your pants. Shitting my pants. How do you respond for he got mad at me and hung up because

when i called him back i was like why what's going on and he he was like i'm sick of your mother's you and your mother's pranks i'm like what are you talking about mom for my mom had shit her pants at the exact same time like moments before so my dad i swear to god so my dad thought that we were like pranking him but really we had just like shit each other's pants. But did you call your mother and say like, can you believe that happened to us at the same time? Yeah, but hers was like she realized she shit her pants when she was doing her laundry, which is grosser.

Right, she didn't know that she... Like she hadn't noticed. Oh, so it wasn't a timing thing. So it wasn't maybe exactly the same time, but she had just realized it at the same moment that I said that to my dad. Oh, that's exciting. So my dad thought we were pranking him.

Yeah, it was great. It was fun. But opening for Jim, I mean, I have to, how was it? Because that's a hell of a baptism. That's a big crowd of a certain type. And I'm not being condescending. I mean, I like those guys. I like Jim.

But I can't imagine the requirements for his audience have to be some pretty high level of filth and self-actualization. It was the first time I opened for him was very, I was scared of them. You know, like I went out really fearful and I didn't have a good set. And then they ended up switching me to the host, which is so humiliating. Well, yeah, the fear thing of fuck you every time. Right, I can't go afraid of them. But that taught me a very valuable lesson because then I came out swinging the next time. Like, fuck you. And then I might have like fuck all you guys like

whatever like oh yeah so that was the Duke lacrosse this was like before I think that was found not true but it was like I'm like what do you guys play you know just like you know you took you gave it to him yeah I was like I'll show you yeah yeah that's good though it's a good tool to have but when I first got in my the first spots I got were actually from donnell rollins because yeah i had met donnell in new york i just saw him the other day he's the best he's so fun he's a sweet guy too like he just was started talking about something about his dad like out of nowhere i i got him in the middle of some heavy thought about his father the other night and he just laid it on me it was kind of sweet yeah he is really he's like a really sweet deep guy yeah he's awesome yeah but

so when i met him i i had wanted to do comedy i was living in new mexico we have that in common i know i was living in did i know that i don't know i went to the college of santa fe which is dearly departed oh it's not not saint john's the college of saint john's they make you read right college of santa fe they went on business all right we'll get back to that so you donnell he gave you your first so donnell i had i knew this guy from Santa Fe, my friend Paul Shin, who was friends with Esther Koo. They just had gone to college together. Esther Koo, the comedian?

Okay. And then so when I had said that I wanted to do comedy, I'd moved to New York to do comedy. Yeah. My friend Paul was like, you should meet my friend Esther. And then Esther was like, you should come to this party at my friend Donnell's house. And I'm like, Ashley, Larry, that's awesome. So then I go to the party and I'm talking to his friend. I can't remember his friend's name. Who, Donnell's house and I'm like, Ashy Larry, that's awesome. So then I go to the party and I'm talking to his friend.

I can't remember his friend's name. Who, Donnell's? Yeah, Donnell had this friend who I was talking to and he was like, oh, you're funny. Are you a comedian? And I was like, well, actually,

I got all nervous. I was like, I don't know. I want to do it. And he was like, yo, Donnell, she wants to do comedy. And it was like in front of everyone. I was so embarrassed. And Donnell was like,

I got a show on Monday. Come do it. And I was like, well, I i was so embarrassed and donnell was like uh i got a show on monday come do it and i was like well i'm not really ready i think i'd done maybe one open mic i quit drinking like the week before yeah and i was like i don't know if i'm ready and he humiliated i mean he went like he's like dude don't say you want to do something and not do it he's like everyone's got to do it i'm so grateful for it but he was like go hard or go home and i was so embarrassed so what i did was i showed up that Monday, and he ended up being like, well, just come next week. And then I came the next week, and I brought people and stuff. Oh, so he wanted to test you first?

Well, he was like, yeah, he was like, don't like, and he really went hard. He really like, he yelled at me. But when you showed up, you didn't go on? When I showed up at that show, no, he didn't have me go on. And what did you have, like five minutes, five jokes? I mean, probably, yeah. What were you, like 19?

No, I was 25. 25? It was my birthday yesterday. I'm 35. Oh, happy birthday. Thank you. But you were just out of college at 25? Well, sort of.

I just quit drinking. So I was like, you know, I went to college for about eight years. I went to undergrad for a long time because I was drinking so much. It was like kind of- Eight years? Yeah. That's really long. Well, I was like, you know, it was like kind of. Eight years? Yeah. That's really long.

Well, it was like, you know, it was in completes. I wasn't like. All right. You know, so I was like, you know, I would take like a semester off or whatever to, you know, pay more attention to Jaeger. Oh, Jaeger was a thing? I quit Jaeger first.

Jaeger, that leads to some bad shit in my experience. Yes, it does. For some reason, that particular liquor does, it opens you up. Yeah, I used to drink, i used to drink it by the pint they had like i was dating this bartender well dating whatever bang this bartender yeah new mexico and they had a jaeger machine he would just give me points of jaeger machine i would just wake up with just like you know my knees were all torn out because i fall down drunk so embarrassing

well that's better than like lining up dicks yeah i guess what like a plinko chip boing i uh so like i remember wait so you're open for me you're middle for me right philly yeah right and we're i think we're driving around your mom's car my mom had an ebay drop-off store that's right and she had a van that had a wrap on it that said like we'll sell your stuff on ebay in primary ebay colors why were we driving around in that did you drive down from the city i was living in new york yeah but where was her store her store was out of her house in philly yeah in the suburbs of philly oh so you were staying at your mom's yeah and we're driving around we're driving on i was so pissed i didn't get a picture of that that's so funny yeah we did we get sandwiches we got sandwiches and we went to the art museum

yeah it was fun we did some cultured stuff it was good i remember texting you like i think that was really fun and then you were trying to ghost me i was yeah a week later you were being a little really i went you can't be cold to the cold yeah i'm too much like you mark you can't you're not gonna get rid of me was i nice to you yes you are oh well that's good so but where does it where did you grow up? I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia. So you are from Philly, so that she was there. Mm-hmm. And you have brothers and sisters?

Yeah, I have a twin brother and I have an older brother. Twin brother. What'd that guy end up doing? He works in sports TV. He's in Boston and he's a producer at NBC Sports, New England. A suburb of Philly. I think Philly's a rough place. How so?

I don't know. I talk to people from there, and they have a definite edge to them. Yeah. Yeah, we're cool. Yeah, I know. You're kind of like that. You can't really fuck with them. No, I mean, I don't know where I got my confidence.

I mean, well, I don't know. And you're seeing Kurt Metzger now. He's Philly, right? Well, he's from Tom's River, New Jersey, but he started comedy in Philly. Right. Him and Jay. Yeah. Kevin Hart.

Yeah. That Philly crew. Yeah. Joe DeRosa. Yeah, DeRosa. I talked to him today. You did? Yeah.

He's a sweet guy. He's the best. He's a little soft for Philly. He is soft for Philly, but he's got it in him to do it. Oh, no, definitely. No, he's definitely Philly, but he's sort of a softer Philly. He's like Norristown, I think. Oh, is that what it is?

I don't know. So were your parents together? Yeah, my parents were together. My dad worked at Penn. He did? Yeah. As a teacher? He was the treasurer.

The treasurer of Penn. And then my mom had a bunch of- So that's a good job? So you could use the pool over there and stuff? No, we never went. I never went. I would go to work with him sometimes, but I never really used the facilities.

He retired when I was 15. My dad's 77. He retired when I was 15. Uh-huh. And so... And what did your mom do? My mom did different jobs. She worked at like...

When I was a little kid, she worked at this organization called gray panthers it was an organization for yeah old people against yeah ageism and stuff which maybe you care about now uh-huh probably not the time okay yeah i can you look great you look great that's very nice so you look good so that's all right so you the makeup's working for you yeah so so much on i know i'm surprised bonnie was like i talked to bonnie mcfarland today i was like i'm gonna go do mine shearland today. I was like, yeah, I'm going to go do my, and she's like, what are you going to wear? She's so funny. Are you smoking weed?

Yeah, I smoke weed. I didn't smoke today or anything. No drinking. Just weed? Just weed. And I go in and out of being completely sober and then smoking weed or whatever. And I've done like hallucinogens and stuff pretty recently. Did it help out?

Did it help? Yeah. Did you do them for clinical reasons or for fun? For sure like which one i did uh mushrooms acid and dmt in the past couple years uh-huh and these were experiments or yeah it wasn't party time it was sort of like no no no never party time my life is a party i have fun at the dmv you know uh-huh but yeah but like what like well let's go back to when did you start i tell you all of those i will no i'll take it yeah but like what, like, well, let's go back to when did you start? I can tell you all of those. I will not take it.

Yeah. But like what happened? Like how, what, how were you so fucked up that you needed to get sober when you were in your early twenties? When you were a kid, what was going on? Where'd you go to school? What was the deal? I went to a Quaker school called Green Street Friends School.

That's just. And that's just. Sturmertown Friends. Oh, but that was because it was a good school. Yeah. My mom, one of the jobs that she did, she wrote the newsletter for the school, so she really liked the idea of Quakerism,

and she decided to raise me and my brothers Quaker. Just because you liked the idea? Yeah, well, we didn't have a, like, she wasn't brought up very religious at all, and my dad wasn't very religious. He was in Vietnam, and I think he found God, but I've never really had that conversation with him. And he's still around?

Yeah. Wait a minute. So your dad was, what religion were they they my dad would they both were brought up nothing like I mean my dad's father wasn't in the picture really but he was Jewish but they never celebrated and then my they celebrated Christmas yeah my grandmother was was Christian huh and then we thought for a while she was Jewish and she was adopted so there's like a lot of adoption and have you done the genetic thing yeah 20 um jewish and what's the rest the rest is born it's like a british or something we're like from england i thought i was russian

because people literally come speaking russian to me in distress like i could see you looking russian they come like i'm like gonna save them or something i fucking don't just on the street in philly a lot russians will come up to you like panic in their face help me they're not understanding like you're the only one that will know but also when i was in i used to live in greenpoint in brooklyn and everyone's polish so if i was in a bad mood they just started speaking polish to me like if you're frowning you're definitely you do look a little i can see that happening but your dad was in vietnam like for like like the real deal kind of like he was he didn't have to like shoot his gun or anything he was a um he

was a mechanic a plane mechanic my dad went to um school for um engineering and then he ended up going to wharton my dad's like really smart but add and create you know right but your mom like just decided quakerism yeah and quakerism is really cool i'm glad it gave me a good would you consider yourself like a quaker uh sure i mean i well i went after the election i was kind of like going to quaker meeting again for a little bit the last election yeah really you were going to quaker meeting is that what it's called yeah well it it's on Sundays you just go and you sit in a room on these benches facing each other. Yeah. And you just sit in silence.

And the whole theory is like if you feel moved to speak, like God speaking through you. But people just stand up and say kind of whatever they feel moved to say. That's a ritual of Quakerism? Yeah, that's the church. The Quaker meeting? That's the church? But there's two different. There's programmed and unprogrammed Quakers. ritual of quakerism yeah that's the quaker meeting that's the church but there's two different there's

programmed and unprogrammed quakers so programmed quakers make up the majority of it but not in the area i'm from so programmed programmed is they have a they have a preacher and stuff and they go by the bible and stuff so it's crazy i remember going okay go ahead yeah when i was younger i would go to like quaker youth retreats and in my area unprogrammed quakers i'm just like everyone's a lesbian everyone's gay everyone's like crazy hair like it was just a very inviting because it's the whole theory of it is that god is in the form of an inner light that everyone has so really so it's not an old religion i don't know when it was founded but let's talk about quaker meetings you knew enough that you didn't go to church you weren't programmed quaker but you did go to we used to go to church we would

go to quaker meeting which was church yeah so all the kids you and your brother yeah my twin brother and your older brother my twin was like you would always stand up he's like any i would talk yeah but i remember the nerves and stuff it kind of reminds i mean it makes me think of stand-up a lot sure you know it's where i practice my you know dick jokes or whatever can you imagine i mean i could they would have to accept it as quakerism man the quaker talks they would have to just like politely maybe. Right. Someone will pull you aside, like maybe watch the language.

Yeah, maybe watch the language. But I've cursed in meeting before. Felt great. So you did this a lot. I mean, you were really brought up in the Quaker thing. But not that heavily. When we were younger, then we went to a different school and it was like we'd go here and there. And I tried to go back recently and it was just sort of not, not that I'm against it,

but it's just not something I felt like doing regularly but when you but you believed in god um it didn't matter inner light sure inner light and stuff like that i think i'm i'm more like lately like as i get older more believing in god or something how's that going with kurt um well he's one of the reasons i'm like i don't know how i ended up like meeting this person that makes me feel so good. It like feels like I went through so much shit to get there. So he will talk you out of God. No, he's, I mean, he was brought up.

I know. So religious, but I don't feel like he would talk you out of God even. I think he believes in God more than me. Does he? Yeah, for sure. This is a new Kurt. I thought, I don't know. I don't know.

I thought he was the skeptic. I mean, he's a skeptic of all you know of all things yeah yeah i mean he you know well let's talk about like so the election happens and you just felt like you needed to go sit with quakers well i just wanted a place to be quiet i don't know i just wanted to like you're terrified or whatever yeah i was really triggered i had a lot of um i you know i have a history of sexual assault and stuff like that and it was just really a lot i mean the election was like really i mean i was like ptsd i mean oh yeah oh yeah i felt that i don't have a history of sexual assault but i certainly felt like um how many how many groups of people down are the jews and they get on the

train thing i know but you know that's so selfish whatever yeah it's just all terrifying everything's very and it was just like it's just it was like a confused i don't know it was like what the hell is happening did it feel comforting did it feel comforting i felt really good to be there and stuff and and everything but i went to the quaker school until fifth grade yeah and then uh in fifth grade we moved over to public school me my twin brother my older brother had already gone and public school i just had i mean brother, my older brother had already gone. And public school, I just had, I mean, I had learning disabilities, so it was a little bit more difficult for me in public school.

How did that manifest itself? This is ADD? Yeah. I mean, I just, sometimes I'm looking back, Mark, though, now, and I'm thinking about all the things my parents said were wrong with me, and I'm going, I don't know that there was really anything wrong with me. But they were concerned? Were they?

Yeah. know that there was really anything wrong with me but they were concerned were they yeah i mean you know i when i was when i was in kindergarten i have a twin brother and i was you know bigger than him not identical well our penises are a little different so they can't be identical he's circumcised you're not yeah i'm completely uncircumcised uncut i have to deal with all the time oh you do wow weird so in kindergarten my brother had learning disabilities so they held both they held they had a choice to either hold both of us back or just max yeah and so they were like we're not gonna put put our son through that where it's like his sister's twin sister so they held us both back and then in second grade i was having trouble reading like dyslexic kind of deal i don't know i think my parents didn't teach me to read oh really i think they thought the school was going to and then the school was like i think your parents are supposed

to help with this are they i can't remember who taught me to read yeah whatever i figured it out eventually and i you're okay with it a little bit i can read i can read now the twitter's expanded their characters not as much but so okay so when does the juvenile delinquency okay so we go to the public school and then all of a sudden i'm just kind of hanging out with not good people. I just found myself with little... Well, you're kind of... Oh, so, but what kind of person were you? Were you shy?

Were you... Because you're kind of like... No, I was like... You're kind of like... I had... What am I? You're kind of... It seems like you're, you know, you're take charge kind of person.

Well, I had, you know, I kind of had to be, so... You did? I learned, yeah, I learned young because... Okay, so I had a lot of problems. Like, I was born breech, right? take charge kind of person well i had you know it kind of had to be so you did i learned yeah i learned young because okay so i had a lot of problems like i was born breech right so i was born my brother was born at mid we were born at midnight so he's july 20th i'm july 19th and i kicked him out of the womb yeah and oh so you're born breech your feet came out so i came out first i'm in an incubator i don't know how much that affected my but i had a lot of problems with tactile i didn't like like kind of signs of I was on the spectrum of autism so I didn't like to be

touched and or held and I didn't wouldn't breastfeed and stuff but my my mom said that I would really squish in with my brother like I would let him like because you were that was the only thing you were close to yeah it was my brother yeah so then um uh I had problems so I didn't my socks would really bother. There was like a lot of issues. Like I was always like upset. Like my feet would hurt if the seam wasn't in the right spot. I would like, it would ruin my day.

Like I just couldn't. Oh really? Yeah. It was like constant fight. It was chaotic. We were always like late to school. Like things were just, everyone in my family has ADD. So it's just like an explosion at all times.

More OCD ish. Maybe. Yeah. I think I am thinking more on sounds like more OCD-ish. Maybe, yeah. I think I am thinking more on the lines of OCD because I am messy, so I always think I'm not. But then I can't go to sleep because I'm all of a sudden panicking every night about some fucking weird thing I said that's not even a thing.

Oh, really? To somebody? That feels OCD-ish. Yeah. Well, it sounds like it's just a scramble for control. Scramble for control or like a way to punish myself or something because i think that's a that's very predictive that's consistent right like you can always rely on that i'm an asshole right well it's easier because all these things

that end up happening which i'll tell you it's like kind of to get through them i just blame myself because it was too much to to admit that like the girl all the grown-ups in my life let me down that hard was like a lot scarier. So up until very recently, I really blame myself. I just thought I was like a rotten piece of shit just wandering around. So you worked through it some of it. Yeah.

Well, let's go back. So the juvenile, the people you end up hanging out with. Right, so I'm hanging out with people who are like smoking cigarettes, like we're being bad. 15, you're like 15? 13. 13, wow. 13. Just like bad, 15, you're like 15? 13. 13, wow. Yeah, 13.

Just like bad, grimy, edgy kids? I just wasn't, yeah, and I wasn't, it wasn't easy for me to like get good grades. Like it wasn't easy for me to get that sort of reinforcement. So I guess I just went the other direction. Right. I don't know if I did it on purpose. The bad girls and boys?

Right. But then, so then when I was 13, we went to Mexico, my family my mom and i got in a car accident i was doing i was a swimmer at first for a while i was on the swim team i was going to train for the junior olympics and smoke i wasn't smoking yet so i was going to train for the junior olympics and then on the way to check out my it was my neighbor was driving yeah her kid another neighbor and then my mom was in the front seat and i was in the middle in the back and we got it was my mom was going to see the program i was gonna have to

go in the morning and at night going to a swim meet yeah it was going to be like a swim practice where they train you for the olympics yeah or for the jo's and then so on the way we get there's a drunk driver a woman in a minivan who just comes over into our lane and just head-on collision just crashes into us they had to get the jaws of life to get the marsha my neighbor out my mom hurt her chest she was like in a neck brace and i broke my foot and the kid next to me like cut his eye open and went to the hospital his eyelid just was hanging down it was very he had no clue that was happening too it was so gross you're that's one of those things you remember in your in your mind i remember the shock and like feeling like very euphoric and giggling i couldn't stop laughing because you were

just i couldn't believe what just happened and i remember they were cutting my sock off because of my foot was and i was my brother my older brother's sock and i went oh no my brother's gonna kill me he's not gonna get yeah the seam at that point i'd gone to occupational therapy which cured me of my socks seam issues do you know what they fucking did to me at this occupational therapy because of my it sounds like i got molested i mean i mean i did but not from them yeah but it sounds like so molesty yeah when i tell people now i went and saw this woman and she ran because i was so sensitive to certain touch and fabric and like stuff like that she took a large vibrating

furry like almost like a car buffer yeah plugged it into the wall and just rubbed it all over my body and then which i mean it really does that until i came and and that's how it went away and then but my mom would she had to take a scrub i can only come yeah when i'm being buffed like a fucking car so then she my mom would have to take surgical brushes and scratch my skin every day to kind of desensitize me really yeah which really hurts on your clit and uh-huh and it's and it's also seems inappropriate it's so your mom yeah come on mom stop trying to bang me yeah so that helped me with that yeah i'm in the car accident and now it's like the time where it's like it's going to be hard to start getting back into swimming because i didn't like work working hard but i

was naturally a foot bad i broke my fifth metatarsal when i was in a cast for a little while and then i remember some kid bullied me and like stepped on my foot and i had to keep my cast on for longer what the fuck fuck? Who was that guy? His name was Mike. Oh, really? I remember his last name. Uh-huh. But I'm not going to say it. Okay.

But whatever, who cares? He was someone you went to school with? Yeah, he was just some kid who gave the shit he probably crushed on me or something. So now you got a broken foot. So I had a broken foot and it was like,

I'm in seventh grade, I'm 12, I'm like, what am I going to do? Right. So I just sort of, I just, that's the turn. I just started smoking cigarettes, started getting I gonna do so I just sort of I just that's the turn

I just started smoking cigarettes started getting boyfriends like I was just yeah and what happens what about Mexico so we get money we get money

from the settlement from this car accident for your mom's neck right from me and my mom for being in this accident with this drunk lady

and then we take that and we go to club med with the family we go to Huatulco, Mexico that's a nice to Club Med with the family. We go to Huatuco, Mexico. That's a nice thing to do with the settlement. Yeah.

The whole family. Yeah, pretty cool. The whole family goes. All five of us. All five of us. So then, I'm just, I don't know what my parents

were thinking, but they did just let me, I just was by myself a lot in Mexico. I think they thought someone was watching. I was 13. Yeah.

I think they thought someone was watching the kids, but nobody was. So I took an arch Yeah. I think they thought someone was watching the kids, but nobody was. So I took an archery class and there was an instructor there who was, I think he was 26 is what I recall. I'm 13. I just turned 13. So I'm hanging out with him afterwards.

He's like, oh, I'll walk you back up to your place. And I remember he thinking we're going to my spot and he walked me up to his place. Right. And he, we go into his place and I'm like, oh, and he walked me up to his place right and he we go into his place and i'm like oh and he's like he puts on i'll never he put on journey open arms so that song is fucked for me but um and then he uh it's not it's not a big loss yeah i know but i wanted to love it my favorite so then and then he starts like massaging me and stuff and i'm so uncomfortable and i'm like i have to go and he's like you're gonna just like massaging me and stuff and I'm so uncomfortable and I'm like, I have to go. And he's like, you're going to just go without kissing me.

And I had to like make out with this old guy to leave. Like to me, like 26 when you're 13 is like the oldest person you've ever seen in your life. Yeah, of course. It's crazy. Yeah. So then I end up being able. Had you made out before?

Yeah, I had made out with. But just like 13 year old making out, like, know, like, like, like, what is that game minute in the closet or whatever? Like trying to French kiss. Well, it's usually seven minutes, but I guess some people. Oh, yeah. And I'm quick. Come a little quicker.

A little quick. But no. So. But so. But that doesn't matter, obviously. But I was just wondering. This wasn't the first time. No, no, no, no.

It wasn't the first time I kissed. I had like a boyfriend. This kid, Steve, that was like my, you know, we held hands in the hallway or whatever. But it was still creepy. And the guy was old. You were like a boyfriend this kid steve that was like my you know we held hands but it was still creepy and the guy was like make out yeah it was so i was so scared and so then um i left he didn't make me like have sex with him or anything so i leave and then uh i go to the head of the like kids program or whatever and i'm like this guy did this and then i just made sure i remember i think first think first, before I did anything, I went down. I saw him talking to people, doing the archery instruction.

This guy, Alex. And I just started screaming at him. I went, you're a fucking pedophile. You're fucking gross. I was so mad. I couldn't believe this had happened. Screaming at him. And he's like, you need to get out of here.

And then I told, but that's when I started drinking on that trip. We were drinking. And then I told the guy. And then I think he ended that trip. We were drinking. And then I told the guy and then I think he ended up getting fired. But my parents like didn't know any of this happened. You didn't tell them? No, I don't know why I didn't feel comfortable telling my parents stuff,

but I didn't. I never told them. So there was a whole kids program. Yeah, and I think they just thought we were covered or something. But I remember I fell asleep in some kid's house and they were mad at me. How long were you at club?

Not a year? I mean, it could have just been like four or five days i don't know i just i get i'm in like i was just a young i think i was pretty i don't know what i looked like then maybe the middle handsome bro i always thought i looked like a boy and stuff but i'm kind of learning that i never did so you called the guy out you got him in trouble i mean i always have but um so then uh go back to school and that wasn't i didn't really like feel that much trauma from that. I just remembered that one recently.

And then, yeah, I mean, it's not like I had repressed it, but I just have so many of these sort of things I got into because I wasn't really being watched. So I was very mature for my age. I got my period when I was 11. Like I was just like, I ran into a girl from middle school at the mall and she was like, oh my God, I was just talking to my mom about you like we saw you on something and she was talking about how crazy you were and i really go like whenever someone calls me crazy i'm like tell me what type of crazy yeah and she was like boy crazy my mom used to be so nervous because you were so

like like you were so into boys yeah and i wasn't there yet or whatever right i was just like developed faster. Like seventh grade. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There was like, that's when, I don't know if that's when it normally starts, but I remember my seventh grade year was being, it was a little crazy. Mm-hmm.

Like everyone was making out. Yeah. That was the first time I felt boobs. Yeah. Like the first time that I, yeah. How'd it feel? I didn't know what to do with them. Yeah.

But I held them. Yeah. There isn't like a real. You know, it's just sort of like. You can't know what to do with them yeah but i held them yeah there isn't like a real you know it's just sort of like you can do a lot of things with them honestly sure but when you're in seventh grade you like you just like yeah you just put their hand on it and maybe squeeze it yeah is that it we did it push them together a little i don't know i didn't do that i didn't do that because there was so much work you had to work your way there was a working your hand it took like an hour to work your hand into the bra because at every juncture.

And you're nervous. Right. At every juncture, you're like, huh? Your hand's the sweat. It's just slipping off the body. Yeah, I guess that's when it happens in junior high. I never like, I had my friend that I started hanging out with who was like kind of the bad girl.

She was already having sex with her boyfriend. At 13. At 13. She started having sex with him before she got her period like i remember being how old was that how old was the boyfriend he was only a year older but he was uh the sicilian kid who looked like he was 45 years old i mean he had like back and neck hair yeah you're like what the hell so it just looked so crazy yeah but so i was hanging out with these people where like sex was kind of normal and my mom is kind of masculine like she she um i wasn't really taught i didn't know how to dress feminine or anything so i kind of just

started dressing slutty because that's what my friends were doing right and i was just like little baby slut i remember my high school had to change their they changed their uh dress code because of me and my friends oh really that's gotta stop yeah they, they're like, if we can see your nipple jewelry, there's problems. But so I go to, I'm in public school and I'm kind of struggling. I'm not doing well in school. I'm starting to smoke cigarettes. No drugs? I smoked weed when I was 13.

And I was drinking, yeah. That started after Club Med? Yeah, I started drinking in Club Med, yeah. Really? And then once I broke the seal, I was like, all right. Yeah all right yeah we're in you know just hanging out with the wrong kids and then i didn't want to keep going to public school so my parents started looking at other schools for me and they ended up sending me to the school in philly and chestnut hill that's for juvenile delinquents as an alternative school so it's either for juvenile delinquents or people had

you been getting in trouble i wasn't like honestly when i look back like like i get so mad at my parents because i'm like why didn't you just tell me to not hang out with those kids because if i had been given any moment of discipline yeah i would have every time they disciplined me i listened to them and it's like my parents had this idea in their head or my dad was working my mom wanted me to like her so much yeah i think she never disciplined me and then i got like yeah diddled left and right like it's crazy the amount of times i had weird shit happen where i'm like why weren't you watching me yeah and also because because when there's no discipline and there's no boundaries you don't like you kind of are looking to connect with you know i was looking for parents. Right.

I was like, every time I would sit on a plane next to someone, I would be like, you know, up until recently, I realized. And I think that predatory people feel that. Yeah. They can tell when you're not being watched, too. They can really tell when you're. And I was sweet. I was sweet and I was misunderstood, you know, because I would get upset.

So you go to the delinquent school? So I ended up going to this delinquent school and it also had a good art program. it was also for people with like you know there were like there was a girl that thought she was a horse that galloped down the hall you know what i mean it wasn't just it was like bullies and the bullied yeah yeah kind of and so then i'm there and i'm at this crossroads i'm like do i lean into hanging out with the special needs kids or the true criminals yeah so then i started hanging out with kids that were like really bad yeah and not to say my friend from the public school too we got into a lot of trouble one summer i was hanging out with gang member i mean i was sneaking out i was breaking into houses with people one guy that i when i was 14 my friend and i met this guy at an outdoor mall the roosevelt mall these guys

were you know we had pagers back then give us their pager number and we would lie and say we're from you know we're 14 we'd say we were They'd give us their pager number. And we would lie and say, you know, we're 14. We'd say we were 16 or something. Which is still gross. And they were like 20. I don't know. Right. And so then we would sneak out to go meet them.

And I remember going, we went to this one house and we went through the window. And then we're like in the pool and like smoking weed and drinking with them, drinking 40s and stuff. And then we left through the window too. And I'm just like naive like i'm like what why are we going through the window and like none of us live here i'm like oh we just fucking like broke into this house had no clue and then i'm like kissing this one guy and you know i was like i was prudish i was like i i started having sex when i was 14 but i didn't want to to. Like, I wasn't ready to have, like, it wasn't. Yeah. It was more of a peer pressure-y situation for me a lot of the times, which. Was it with a boyfriend or?

Yeah, but, like, I think I had already had, had I already had sex when I was making out with this gang member dude? I think I'd already had sex. 14 is when you started. 14, yeah. That's young. On a waterbed. Northeast Philly.

You know that guy? You still know the guy? He was in, he was in prison last I saw. Oh, yeah? Mm-hmm. But you didn't want him still know the guy he was in he was in prison last i saw oh yeah but you didn't want him not for fucking me was he older he was 16 i was 14 he was a real fucking piece of shit it really it really like shaped a lot of my why how so well he was just so nasty to me and i was so like in love with him because i was too young for even those emotions like it's just too much to go through right and he uh he just treated me bad he would like talk shit on me he was nasty he was mean he was a juvenile delinquent he was gross

and he was like a shitty dude right i don't know if he's in jail now but he was in jail for a while for he got into heroin and stuff most of the people from my my high school was a fucking shit show and most of the people from there i feel like a true survivor most of the people from there ended up like dead in prison or like working at a verizon kiosk there's like a true survivor. Most of the people from there ended up dead in prison or working at a Verizon kiosk. There's a few success stories, but it was a small school and it was not... I didn't have to read. I don't think...

I feel like I was completely uneducated. Yeah, because if no one teaches you to prioritize that shit, you don't. You know what I mean? And you're just going to want to hang out with people that make you feel like you're somebody. Or feel something. It's like it was exciting, you know, to go do all this stuff.

So anyway, so I'm making out with this guy. We walk to get out of the window. The pool, yeah. I'm making out with this guy. They drop us off at the house. Luckily, I don't have to like do anything. We sneak back into my friend's house. Then it comes out that the guy I had made out with was wanted for homicide.

Get the fuck out of here. Like this is the shit that i was just like going to the mall and wandering into yeah when i was 16 15 or 16 uh there was this art teacher who this like white guy with dreads and his wife had dreads and she was my advisor and he had actually gone to the school so he was like a alumni yeah of this fucking juvenile delinquent school so he um they pretty much groomed me and a few other people yeah and uh we would go over to their house like his wife called my mom and was like i'm gonna tutor annie and so i would go over to their house they would buy me whatever alcohol I wanted, weed. Yeah. And then she would just like write a paper for me. Right. And then, you know, they didn't want me to be going home drunk.

So then they convinced my mom that it would be a good idea for me to start sleeping over at their house to sort of curb the edge of me leaving to go to college later. That this would be a good positive thing for me. And your mom bought it? My mom fucking bought it. And you're having a good time? So I think it's cool. And I have this one friend, John, this guy friend in school,

who he's like, this is so weird. You guys are going over there. This is not good. Because there'd be a bunch of us, but me and my best friend at the time would sleep over there. My parents gave a futon from our house for it. It makes me so sick when I think about it.

One night, nobody else was there, and it was just me. Yeah, and the two of she was gone too it was just him yeah so it was just the two of us in the house and i woke up in the middle of the night and he was watching me sleep uh-huh like like laying next to me with his face on his fist just staring at me propped up and you're 16 and i yeah 15 or 16 i can't remember and then i go i guess 16 because he would probably be have gotten a lot more and a lot more trouble if i was 15 unfortunately pennsylvania sucks with their laws but so i i'm like that's so fucking weird that's so creepy i'm like what are you doing and then he just kind of laughs and goes in the other room so then the next day he's like he's my art teacher

he's like oh i want to um can i draw you nude and this is at the house this is at the house so this is just the two of us and i like want to say no but i keep like i don't know i just don't want to i felt like it would be accusing him of something if i had said no and i didn't know what was going to happen so um i remember leaving my socks on because i was like that was my protest in my head i was like then i won't be fully nude or whatever and then he comes out of the shower or something and he's like it's better if I'm nude too the drawing's better and at this point there's no way I'm going to be able to say a word I'm like complete shock can't talk I'm just like this kid like how am I in this fucked up situation and then and just trying to in my head be like this is not what's happening there's like gotta

be another like excuse for what's going on and then he sat on the back of my legs and he jerked off on me and I like like wet in my knee pit and then I had to like I mean it's like so I usually tell it funnier but I like it's just so crazy I can't even believe it and I remember like getting up and I didn't even wipe it off I just pulled my pants up because I didn't even want to like do anything and then I had to go I was working at a pottery place and I had to go wipe it off. I just pulled my pants up because I didn't even want to do anything. And then I had to go. I was working at a pottery place, and I had to go to work. So I go to work,

and I tell my manager what happened. And he's like this 19-year-old dude. He's like, that's child molestation. That's crazy. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to think about it. And then I call my best friend, who had also used to stay there with me,

and she goes, oh, he's gotten cheeky with me before you know tell him to fuck off or something like cheeky what the fuck are you talking about i don't think i told her about the jizz part because i was like really ashamed of that right but i was like he just did some weird shit and she was like don't even worry about it so then i'm like what yeah so i'm like am i making this up and then i go to that friend john and he's like no dude this is crazy i knew fucking some shit was going on he's like that's insane so then i was like all right so i go i'm like it can't just be me so i go around i talked to a bunch of girls and my graduating class was 17 kids so there's not that many small school

yeah so i go around i found a girl that was having a full-on affair with him i found a girl that was that he had had sex with when he was supposed to be tutoring her in art and a girl that he had exposed himself to pulled his bone around and like look what you do to me and then maybe a couple more but the only one that was willing to go forward with me was the girl that he exposed himself to so and she didn't have a very good reputation for being honest which sucked i completely believed her story but yeah it wasn't like my most credible you were this to go forward with the school yeah so then i go i go to one of the art teachers the other art teacher he now this art teacher that had done this had gotten fired

for throwing something at another teacher like a day before this happened like right when this was so he wasn't really like technically i guess he wasn't a day before it happened with you yeah like that week or something he had gotten fired i was like crazy yeah so then um so he wasn't at the school anymore so i went to his mentor and this art teacher who i used to really kind of look up to as a father yeah and i told him what happened with this other girl and he i remember he said uh he goes you know i'm torn because half of me i want to go kick his fucking ass like i want to go fucking scream at him for doing this and then the other half i wasn't there so i don't know what happened and i'm like i mean i'm fucking telling you what benefit do i get yeah there's no

literally i'm not like telling people about this i'm not going around to the other students i don't want attention for this i just want a predator to be stopped yeah i like i'm like i already got gotten i just don't want it to keep like i want to stop the you know the cycle the cycle yeah so um i haven't told my parents about it yet. So then the, the art teacher takes me to my advisor who she's like, I knew something bad was happening. What about the wife?

The wife was, had left after he got fired. No shit. So then, uh, so then my advisors, like I knew this was how my other advisor was like, I knew something was happening.

And I'm like struggling with that line too. I'm like, you knew something was happening, but'm like struggling with that line too i'm like you knew something was happening but yet nobody fucking did anything like nobody wanted to get their hands dirty or do anything like yeah to stop this thing so i was like i guess it's me that's gonna do it so then she makes me go to the principal this is all within two hours right so then i gotta go to the principal tell him this or it's a humiliating story right um so i was like so embarrassed i was so ashamed and then telling the principal and the principal story right um so i was like so embarrassed i was so ashamed and then telling the principal and the principal's like the art teacher was still even though he wasn't

employed as a teacher he was still in charge of the glassblowing studio so he's like all right i gotta call i gotta like ban him from the from the campus or whatever and we're gonna you're gonna have to call the police so then i gotta call my parents tell them everything that's going on i gotta go into the police by the time i get home from school this stupid fucking principal had told Greg the teacher everything I said about him who it was that said it like a fucking lunatic I'm a kid like no protection from anyone so then by the time I get home I have all these messages on my answer machine from his wife being like you fucking liar you stupid bitch why would you do this to us you're a fucking bit like all of this stuff where i'm like jesus so then um god i tell my parents and before i told him i

tried to go back to the house before i told anyone i tried going back to the house once with my friend and with them and greg the teacher had said something to me. He'd insulted me somehow. He called me something. I wish I could remember what the word was, but I remember not knowing what the word meant. Was it like the day after? Yeah. It's like really soon after that. Yeah.

And he said something nasty to me. And I'm like, you're going to fucking do that to me and then also make me feel like a piece of shit? So then he said something and I got so offended that he would dare speak to me. And I just was like, get the fuck away from me. me i'm never gonna fucking talk to you again like you're a sick fucking pedophile you're fucking gross and so he goes off into the room so i'm not gonna keep yelling at him and my friend's like oh come on like i'm like you know why i'm mad he's a fucking predator dude he's sick that's like a child molester and she's like come on annie you know and then so my dad picks me up i go home and. And then my mom at one point, she had a meeting with his wife, Debbie, to discuss how to get me and Greg back together again.

Oh, they had such a good bond. We don't want them to be upset. So my mom went on a meeting with this woman to try to work it out. And then she's like, don't you think you and Greg can work it out? After all the shit hit the fan? This is before I had told her what happened. But I think when your daughter is sleeping over at a grown-up's house and all of a sudden she's like i don't ever want to see this man again you should know you can kind of like jump to some conclusions so then when i did come out with it

she was like yeah i thought maybe something was going everyone like who thought something was going on i'm like what the fuck yeah like jesus christ why did i have to do everything on my i mean it's insane i'm like a kid yeah so then um we go to court wow and uh his lawyer ends up being my fucking this girl i played softball with dad i'm like can anyone have my back i mean it's crazy that was very upsetting but i guess he told my parents that he thought he could do a better job for me which is fucking bullshit yeah okay the the lawyer it's like why don't you this is not appropriate why don't you fucking not be his lawyer yeah is that crazy like yeah well that you knew his

daughter and that it's all yeah you came to every softball game of mine and this is cool with you yeah so we get to court and he fucking cut his dreads off the teacher right i remember being like so pissed but now i'm like sick got rid of one more white guy with dreads. If I had to get jizzed on as a kid for that, it's totally worth it. But so we ended up doing a plea deal because of the way Pennsylvania goes. It's like because he didn't penetrate. Yeah. Like I would have maybe lost or something. And so he pled guilty and he got like three years consecutive or three years simultaneous probation for both of us

and i think he wasn't allowed to teach anymore but then he just became a college professor i think and he's just a successful artist in philadelphia now still he still is and he did and did anyone else come uh with you on the case where they're i do i i blacked out a lot of it honestly like i don't there's like i'm really trying to like go back and yeah i've been asking my parents a lot of questions and just asking people what happened but i do believe my advisor stacy came with me and i think someone from the rape crisis no other girl came forward the one girl that he had exposed himself oh she was in the court too yeah she was in court too and um i don't know if this affected her as much but has anyone come forward in years after there's no record of it anywhere i mean it's got to be there's a record

of it somewhere but it's not on the court it's before the internet so there's not if you google him you just what'd you say about a rape crisis i had gone to the rape crisis center the cops sent me to the rape crisis center and i met with them once and i remember reading lolita in the fucking rape crisis center it was just there no i brought it oh it was like how molested is that to be like i draw cartoons i want to draw a cartoon of me in the rape crisis center reading lolita so how did this affect you know the the the years right after or do like what what ultimately happened you said that it was so traumatizing because the uh no one had your back no one had my back i mean my back that girlfriend

that girlfriend i mean they they drove me to court and everything but everyone seemed just like upset that i was making like not that nothing happened but like oh we wish we weren't dealing with this it was just so fucked up it was just a really fucked up situation everyone in my school was kind of like calling me a liar and like look, I didn't have support. My best friend told everyone what happens that I was lying about it. Her mom was going to testify as a character witness against me. Why do, why would they say you were lying? I don't know.

I, when I speculate, I think that maybe she was having an affair with him or something. I don't know because I don't, I just can't, I can't understand why you would. So it was just like this level of denial on everyone's part. the school was probably so scared that i was gonna like come after them but i remember the cops told me that i go well you should also check in with my friend because

she said he had done something they go oh we talked to her she said that you're she told us that you're lying that there's nothing true about what you said so then i come into school the next day and the only way you get kicked out of this juvenile delinquent school is if you hit someone or you sell drugs so I knew I couldn't hit her or anything and I was a quaker it wasn't what I want but I was so I couldn't believe it like how could you do this to me it was so hard to get there and then you're going to tell them I'm fucking lying you're supposed to be my best friend you know what happened so i go so i go into her class she was in a spanish class and i and i go i start pounding she hated the word cunt so i i start pounding my fist on the desk in front of her and just going you're a fucking cunt you're gonna tell

the cops i'm a liar you owe me a fucking apology she's like i don't owe you anything bitch or whatever i get pulled out of the class reprimanded treated like a fucking monster because of this girl it's like the craziest shit in the world to me and then um i just remember them like yelling at me i'm going like are you guys crazy do you have any clue what's going on or any of your responsibility in it i go um go to court he gets the three years i was like i grad let me graduate early yeah i wonder why you stayed at the school no I graduated that year when I was 16 yeah you know we had a small graduation ceremony I remember my teacher

the teachers would give you each like uh your advisors would give you a little speech about you and my advisor was like you know she'll stand up against things even if she loses things out of it you know like she said something about it so that she's a fighter yeah I'm like can someone just fucking actually help me but um so there was that but then i went back i would i went on to go to santa fe and go to college and everything and how'd you pick santa fe i wanted to i thought i wanted i i because i graduated when i was 16 i took a year off and um what did you do i went to first i went to went to Hawaii and I did this, uh,

dolphin. There was this place called the Marine mammal lab and, um, Oahu and Honolulu. And I trained dolphins for like a month. It was like a program you paid for or something, but it was cool. Yeah,

it was neat. It was cool. I mean, I was very, I was 17. Everyone else was older. So it wasn't, I didn't really fit in with the crew as much,

but it was fun to train dolphins. It was really cool. It was interesting. Yeah. I ended up working with autistic kids later and a lot of the behavior management stuff was very similar. It was like very like interesting to have like a background with behavior modification. Sure. You probably learned some new tricks too.

Yeah. And I learned how to, yeah, I learned how to have a really big dick. The male dolphins have huge dicks. They do. Then I did a program where i went to central america and i did service work there oh wow like a group of kids that was a was that a quaker thing no that was just like a you want just wanted to do that yeah i wanted to travel i wanted to do something good you know i just been through all this shit i just like wanted to like

and i felt rotten i felt like that was all my fault. Yeah. I felt like I was just like a piece of shit. And you couldn't trust anybody. And like. Yeah. I just felt like so gross. Even though like I knew, I still also had a confidence, but it was like, it's just, I had to like jump on the grenade for myself. So I took that summer when I came back from the service work and I started working with kids with special needs. Yeah. So I was a head counselor at an Easter Seals camp and I like had a lot of fun.

I really enjoyed it. I worked with kids with like cerebral palsy and spina bifida. Wow, you really did a lot of service work. Yeah, it was fun. I mean, I liked it. It was fun. And it was a really fun job. And so I wanted to do something.

I was thinking about maybe becoming a special ed teacher, and I draw. I like doing art. So I was going to do that or art. And I wanted to get away from Philadelphia. I didn't realize why at the time but looking back it's like I'm so fucking traumatized so I wanted to get as far away from my family I just wanted out yeah so I looked at all these different schools and even though I loved my parents like the most all the time obsessively throughout all of it I still just needed to get away so I looked at the College of Santa Fe and

I liked their art program and they had a teaching program so i was like i can do what i need to do here i thought the students were really cool yeah and um santa fe was a neat town and so i moved there and i did like counseling psychology i mean i never my mom wrote my papers like i didn't fucking learn much yeah i had a great time my teachers were incredible like i had really good teachers and you were there on and off for eight years on and off for eight years i had i had incompletes for to be fair i had incompletes for like two years and then the college was going out of business so my art teacher susan york who's fucking amazing yeah my art professor she hits me up out of nowhere and i used to not get along with her because she had a class at 8 30 in the morning that i would

cut right and she would call me and i'd be like i I was so mad at her because I'm like I'm 18 now I don't have to come to class which is so crazy what I was saying wasting money and she was like I just want you there I just like believe in you and so what were you doing painting or drawing she was uh what was she painting I think or maybe she was just what were you doing in our I didn't have a I didn't have a medium i draw now a little bit but um my mom's a really good artist and it was just something we would do together she got me into art classes and stuff and and um you know i had some really good mentors in high school he taught me how to paint with the medium semen and you can it's body art and yeah but so we go i go uh she calls she messages me and she's like hey the school you know the college is going out of business i just moved back to new york or i just moved to new york did you i just quit drinking i just started doing comedy you'd finish college

i've well i thought i had finished like i was like i'll get to it like there's a couple papers you know but i was like i'll get to it so i move on with couple papers I have to write, you know, but I was like, I'll get to it. So I move on with my life. Like we'll deal with that later. I did 90% of the work. Does it matter when the college shuts down? I mean, I mean, it mattered to me.

Cause you can never get your degree now from that college. You can lie and say you have that degree if you want. Like I feel, I'm always like, congratulations graduates. Can't you transfer the credits? Yeah, but I fucking hate school was a goddamn nightmare for me i would

panic every night like sure so you're two incompletes away from graduating i'm two incompletes away from graduating okay but i don't realize i'm just like deal with it later like repress it i mean i was drinking so heavily and when i quit drinking you know i had i'd been sober maybe three weeks and i get this email that's like you you have two weeks to finish these and one of them was like statistics like who the fuck remembers statistics right and so I had to fly back to Santa Fe on a credit card fly back um do all these papers write all these things finish it up and then finally I got my degree and then the school goes out of business yeah then it comes back as another thing goes out of business again but. Then it comes back as another thing, goes out of business again. But you got the degree.

I got the degree. Yeah, I needed it for myself. It was just like to know that I could finish something. You want that hanging over you for the rest of your fucking life. Exactly. Exactly. So now we're back to where we come in full circle here. So, and we talked about you starting out in comedy, but like now you're out here. Like when I was working with you, you were dating a skateboard guy.

Oh, Rollerblader? Rollerblader, maybe. Well, that was a couple of years ago. I think it was after that. I don't think I was working with you, you were dating a skateboard guy. Oh, rollerblader. Rollerblader. Maybe. Well, that was a couple of years ago. I think it was after that. I don't think I was dating anyone. I was so into comedy.

Like I was just so wanted, like I just wanted to be my career. Always. I never was like, I'll try this out. Right. It was just a thing. I just felt a calling to,

and it was really like the only thing, cause I was going to be a special ed teacher. I would have burned out on that. Yeah. In a second. You can only wipe so many fucking 18 year old boys asses before you're like, maybe, maybe I don't want to do this every day of my life. Though it was a pleasure.

Thank you for letting me wipe your assholes. You locked in and you just, you did it New York style and you just started. Yeah. I just went in hard. Doing every set you could. Yeah. And I went in and I knew I had, uh, I had kind of befriended some comics and I went to a mic with them and I had, and one of them had said, um, and I don't know if this is

good advice or bad advice and, you know, people should do whatever they want, but he was like, just try to not like hook up with the comics because it's going to be harder to get respect. Right. And, um, so I had that in my head. Right. And so, but I was drinking so much. I was blackout drunk all the time. Right.

From age of like 21 to 25. I mean, blacked out, waking up in terrible situations. I had a fucking real bad thing happened to me in New Mexico when I was blacked out drunk. And, um, my roommate like found this guy fucking, like literally picking me up off the ground and fucking me on the couch and stuff. And that was like a whole. Another. Another where I'm just like, I can't drink. I can drink i can't like uh protect my i gotta be able to protect myself nobody's tell the school or well he wasn't he didn't go to the college and this was after the college this was just when i was living in santa fe and i you know

i i tried to get him to admit it or it was just it was like this i was just yeah and i was fucking fucked up spiral yeah and i was like yeah and i was fucking fucked up spiral yeah and i was like you know i was getting wasted and fucking people all the time and stuff how much do you think was that a reaction to you know what you'd gone through i think everything was that i think my childhood was really hard too i mean it was just really rough i was just kind of always like bad or something you know like rotten you felt shitty yeah i felt shitty and you couldn't stop yourself from doing things that And you couldn't stop yourself from doing things

that made you feel shitty about yourself. Well, I just wanted to break, I wanted to black out. I didn't want to, I wasn't getting wasted to have fun and be drunk. I wanted to fucking break.

I was like, I hated myself. I just didn't want to be near myself. So what changed? I mean, what made you stop? I wanted to do comedy

really bad. And I also, well, it was like, well, I can't trust myself to not get blacked out that's the whole point i have no interest in being like a little drunk right so i can't protect myself there and then um i got in a scooter accident i was driving blackout drunk one night i woke up in the morning with my chin split open i had road rash all over my boobs i almost lost a

fucking nipple i had cuts all up the front of my arms and hands oh my god down my knees like the dress i've been wearing looked like someone had slit my throat so i woke up out of like i just had these foggy memories of i knew i'd crashed my scooter there's blood everywhere um and i knew i could i felt that someone had picked me up that didn't like i remember it was like someone that didn't usually like me found me and was very nice to me and brought me back to my house. Not to the hospital. Drove me back.

No, because I was wasted. I was like, please don't take me to the hospital. Cause I didn't want, I was like, please don't. Cause I was going to get,

I was going to get in trouble. So then I wake up and I called my entire family and I, that's all I remembered was that. And then I called my entire family and told them I needed to go to rehab. Yeah. And then I had to call them all in the morning and be like, just I was in a black out disregard it was father's day I remember I was like you guys I'm fine like I was blacked out my parents were like you needed like an ambulance like what are you talking about I was really fucked up so then I go and I get my stitches I got nine stitches in my chin and uh so you went

to you walk the next day you got stitches yeah it's like probably not i probably could have had a way better scar too and yeah it was really like i almost died for sure and i was thought it was funny you know like i was like trying to laugh it off i was out drinking the next night with like wounds all over my face and then i meet this guy the next night i'm petting this puppy at a bar and this guy goes do you not remember me and i'm like no and he goes i found you yesterday i found you and i was like oh he's like that's how fucking damn dude he's like i thought you were drunk but that's really drunk and he rides a motorcycle and he was like listen i understood and so then this girl came by i found out it was this manager of a a bar that i would get wasted at so she was usually yelling at me and kicking me out right so he's like so i gave you to her and she drove

you home and i knew like i told her i was like listen you can take her to the hospital but it's going to be a real shit show for her with the cops if you do that so they ended up dropping me off which was i'm glad these are santa fe people yeah these are just people it's a small town i know i you know i used to go up there yeah i go everybody knows what's up yeah everybody i mean the cops all knew me and i when i told them later what happened they were like you would have got an aggravated ui for assaulting yourself because you hurt yourself huh so who knows if that's true but that's what they said to me so i'm like thanks i'll never call the cops way to let me know that i made the right decision not doing the right thing

but so i get the stitches and then it's like i know I need to quit and I know so I'm like if I move out of Santa Fe maybe I move to New York what makes you want to do comedy I was my dad I don't know I was always funny like I was always making my dad laugh and you just but you saw you no one told you you could do it or anything you just sort of my college professors always were like can you just go do stand-up oh so it was on that right yeah but I was always like I kind of had a way of um yeah i had that yeah yeah just interrupting things uh yeah like completely like somehow making it about undermining enjoying it the leader and then so my and my dad's very funny very very funny so it was a lot of like trying to impress him and when he retired and we had this like really bonding is he still around yeah oh good yeah he's around i love him he'll probably

be listening to this which makes me i feel like they came to the show they did yeah yeah and i yeah they're sweet i mean my mom is kind of banned right now because she um fucking heckled me in philly recently when i was headlining and completely ruined an entire almost sold out show fucking psycho well that well that that tells that's all of it and then i'm like she threw a hand she made it about her yeah it was crazy and i it and then i'm like she threw a hand she made it about her yeah it was crazy and i'm telling her i'm going she threw a fucking wrapped present it was christmas weekend she threw a wrapped present on stage so i have to open a present and then i open i have to explain who the fuck my mom is where she's from like i'm like mom they

don't know me yet like what the hell stop acting like i mean this is like made it about her yeah and also like it gets you off balance i mean it seems like there was a competitive element to the relationship. Yeah, it's really weird. I don't know. So when you got sober, how'd you do it? So I moved to New York to do comedy. I'm not doing it. I'm drinking crazy, right?

Nobody else is drinking like me. I'm not around people. In Santa Fe, a lot of people were drinking as much as me. Nobody else. And I'm like, now I'm in a more dangerous situation and i'm like i remember i would like joke i was like should i just bring a rape kit with me because this is crazy i'm just like i'm just offering myself out there to the wolves you know yeah and so finally my friend abby luck who's still one of my best friends in the whole world who i was staying with she's an amazing artist um she an animator she she was like just i'll go with you to an open

mic so we go to an open mic i've already been told at this point like it's not i already know it's not a good idea for me to like hook up with anyone or do anything yeah and i already am thinking i want to quit drinking i'm already i've been in that mindset for about a year so i go to the mic um i bomb obviously i like black out i fucking drop my set list i don't know what i ended up yelling at everyone i don't know what I ended up yelling at everyone. I don't know what I said or did. And I'm very upset. I'm very hard on myself.

I'm sitting at the bar and this comedian who I don't like, I don't, I don't enjoy him. I think he's unfunny and annoying. Right. He comes, sits next to me and he keeps buying me beer or buying me alcohol. And I'm like, nah, man, I'm not like, I don't want to hang out with you. Like I'm an alcoholic. Like don't buy me drinks. Yeah.

Like I can't say no. So of course he'd buy me drinks and he's like, don't worry about it. You know, it's just stand up, which obviously that's true. Your first open mic who gives a shit. But I was so sure this was my life's, I just failed at this thing. So I was so upset. I remember doing Jaeger, taking a shot at Jaeger, which I had already quit. So I was like, oh, and then I end up blackeger, taking a shot at Jaeger, which I had already quit. Yeah. So I was like, uh-oh.

And then I end up blacking out, waking up in this, this open micers apartment in Bushwick. It's snowing out. I'm on his air mattress. I'm like, this is the bottom.

This is it. I like look at him. I'm fully clothed. I hadn't done anything with him. Yeah. But I wake up just like, fuck, why?

Like, what am I doing with my life? And I'm just like, I'm going to quit drinking. I'm done. On an air mattress in Bushwick. I'm fucking done. Like, I'm going to do this. Yeah. And up just like, fuck, why? Like, what am I doing with my life? And I'm just like, I'm going to quit drinking. On an air mattress in Bushwick. I'm fucking done. Like, I'm going to do this. Yeah.

And I'm like, the one thing I didn't want to do, I'm already like at this guy's house and shit. Halfway there, yeah. So then I quit drinking. I stopped drinking. I called my friend Tate Fletcher. Do you know who he is? No. He's like a buddy of Rogan's.

He's a like MMA trainer and motivational speaker guy. But he was my friend in santa fe and i knew that he had been sober so i called him and he was like just say to yourself 30 days for now um so i wasn't too overwhelming yeah and he's like and just go to meetings and you know you can either talk or not you can also just listen you don't have to do anything just go yeah check it out and once i went to my first meeting i was like this is a fucking problem i gotta be here you know yeah so then i started doing the 90 and 90 and i knew like it wasn't gonna just be i just was like i can never do this again it was too life or death it was too i was gonna fall i couldn't believe like

people weren't dying in the train tracks all the time because i'm like sloppy drunk falling downstairs and shit yeah so um so how did it feel to get sober that first time were you crazy i couldn't sleep i couldn't sleep and then this thing happened with my school so then i'm like flying back and my i was staying with my friend abby but her friend paul like i insulted him he was playing guitar and i went um i went oh i love the goo goo dolls and he was like you have to leave you have two days and i'm like but i'm getting sober and it's so funny when you get sober nobody cares yeah yeah you're so like in your own life i'm winning i'm i'm you should be proud of me i need your help he's like fuck you bitch yeah and i'm glad he did that it was very it was helpful for me to have someone fucking say no to me yeah um and abby was like sorry dude

you're out you know i can't do anything but and i'm like it was she was always saying one of her favorite moments with me is when i was like crying and I was like, but the Google dolls joke was totally worth it. I'll never take it back. So then I had, I ended up staying with someone who was in the program. Um, and it was good. It was really good for me. And then it started to feel like something I was going to rebel against and start drinking

against if I kept going to it. That's how I felt. I felt like a very, um, what did you get a sponsor? Did you have a sponsor? I didn't like the steps. Right. I didn't like the first step at all. The giving up my will or whatever.

Right. I was very upset with that one. I was like, I just gave up drinking motherfuckers. I'm pretty proud of myself. Well, I think it was, it's designed to, uh, enable you to realize that you can't do it. Right. Yeah. But so it's easy to make it bigger yeah yeah but i

definitely was like i'm not giving up my will like i was like fuck this i could never get through the first step but you did know that you couldn't drink oh i knew i could never drink i was like you know i try to not say never just because that's a crazy thing to say but i don't have i i think because i was able to replace it with comedy yeah Because I just started going like five mics a night and stuff. It's like very easy for me to not. And you put together your set. My set. Do you want to hear my first joke?

Yeah. All right. I was like, my mom just joined Facebook. This was right when moms were finding out about Facebook. Yeah. She's been tagging me in all these really embarrassing baby pictures. Like there's this one. Her vagina just makes my head look so small. Yeah.

That's it. That's a good one. A little one. I remember I did one of Donnell's shows and Marina Franklin was like, that's your first joke? She's like, all right. It was cute. And then like, so now you've been working, you've done like, you know, Comedy Central

half hour, you've done an album. I haven't done, I haven't done, I haven't done any specials or albums, which is for my own. I just never wanted to. But you're out there headlining? Yeah, yeah. I headline and I did, I had a show on, a talk show on E for very briefly for like four episodes. And I did, I was, you know, I was on some MTV stuff.

Yeah. But now like. And I worked on, but now, you know, like I just worked on the. The Sacha Baron Cohen thing. The Sacha Baron Cohen show. You and Kurt cohen thing you and kurt so like you've known kurt for a long time he's been my best friend for like seven years and it just happened well he i'm really good friends with his ex-girlfriend too so they were a couple so i never looked at him uh karen yeah karen yeah so they were a couple i just never looked at him like that i never even considered him like that and um but he was always like a family like it was like a family right he's always the friend I just never looked at him like that. I never even considered him like that. And, um,

but he was always like a family. Like it was like a family. Right. He's always the friend. We always lend each other 500 bucks here. And then I know he's always like that situation. And, uh, they broke up and I still wasn't looking at him like that.

And then we started working on the show comedically. We just, it's just like such a click. Yeah. And we were, we write for years. I used to stay at his house when i would go to new york i would live on i would sleep on one couch he would sleep on the other couch and then his girlfriend would get the bedroom because he has like night terrors and stuff yeah so pretty much we would just be like living next to each

other and filth yeah well our beautiful angel was in her beautiful you know like she's like so like i love her so much. And nothing ever happened. Never. It wasn't like it was he had promised me once. I remember he was I used to wear a necklace that said pig. Yeah. And he made me take it off.

He's like, don't wear that. Like, that's not what you are like. And, you know, I went to him because it was just I got I feel like I had a little bit of a rough go with other comedians when I started. I went into comedy with that story, you know, like having gone home with that guy. And then I go to that mic the next week and he's telling the story as if I had fucking sucked his dick or something. I was really upset. Yeah. So I get in and I go up and my first joke on the open mic, the next open mic was, you know, I've woken up bleeding.

I've woken up on park benches. I've woken up in a bikini in the middle of the winter like right i never considered quitting drinking until i woke up on that motherfucker's air mattress and i literally dropped the mic so and it was like great i felt good about it and i was excited to comedy but i had a lot of like rumor i mean they spread a rumor when i got mont. Some people spread it there. The other micers? Yeah, some females. Nasty bunch. What was the rumor? That I had sex with the fucking booker of Montreal

to get into Montreal. And I got a, do you remember when I was opening for you, do you remember when I was like, I would never have sex with anyone that could help me? Yeah. And you were like, I can't help it, you were kidding, but you were like, I'm sorry I said that.

It was hilarious. You threw me a softball. But it was were like, I can't help it. You were kidding. But you were like, I'm sorry I said that. It was hilarious. But it was like. You threw me a softball. But it was just like, like I never, I was so paranoid that to get, I never wanted to get slain in Urn or anything like that. And it's so hilarious because I'm like, if you guys knew the powerful dicks I fucking dodged, I mean, I could have a fucking, probably a lot more success right now or less. I don't know.

I just don't, I don't know who starts that shit. It's just, it's crazy. And it's such a weird crazy and it's such a weird started it i have suspicions um and i guess it doesn't matter because it's always going to be something and it doesn't it doesn't matter but what the lesson for me to learn was like i was living very fearful that people were going to say these things about me and the truth is people are going to say things about me no matter what like so in terms of you and kurt you know so we were working in the so kurt was kurt had my back and he told me to take the picnics off and he was like that seems like a big thing to picnic yeah it was it was like it was really nice of him to do that and it was really helpful because i did i like look i'm wearing this

fucking thing around my neck that's like keeping me in this place of being rotten and like these things are all my fault shame Shame. Shame. Yeah. So he, um, he did that and he was, and then he promised, he's like, I just want to let you know, I'll never,

I will never betray our friendship. I will never like hit on you or whatever. So I really believed him. So we're working in the room together. We're just having so much fun. And when I used to live there, we would just spend all night laughing and writing jokes and like wake up at 4 PM them the next day and go do shows with like brand new jokes it was just like so every boyfriend I've had other than him since I did comedy made me feel like they're taking from my

time in comedy yeah and he just I always say like Kurt's like salt like he just he just enhances everything like he just makes like my life just better I'm gonna cry I love him so much but fuck I love him he's just so sweet oh and you find someone that like understands you and like can protect you and it's like I just didn't have anyone protecting me ever and to finally have this like person that just like he just gets it and he can tell me things about myself that I couldn't see like I thought I was ugly and shit so I'm like I thought I thought I was like, looked like a boy and shit. I'm like running around flashing my boobs thinking it's funny because I'm like this hideous monster.

And it's like, no wonder these girls fucking hated me. I'm like, like, well, I don't want to say I'm pretty, but you know what I mean? Like, but it's like, I'm not, I don't look like a boy. Like, I just didn't know my self-worth was so like, I just didn't know what I was or what people saw me as. And, um, so it was just so nice to have someone that just knows me so well. And like, yeah, he's just helped me so much.

Like, I feel like I've gone through so much of my shit. Like, just to have someone who loves you. How you saw yourself. Yeah, just someone who just has your back and can like, just like gets you. It's just incredible. Well, that's great. Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah, I feel really good. When I heard it, I was like, wow, it made sense sense to me but i didn't know the whole history you know they call me girl kurt for a year like you know and did you like in what so you feel like that this has helped you process the distrust and the trauma and your self-image yeah it was such a weird i never had the experience of i don't know if this is just like i just wasn't in love when i thought i was in love before but i just had this experience of when it really like when i really saw him and stuff and and was able to like feel what he was saying to me i just it felt like my chest was like on fire like like if i think about him sometimes still i like feel it's

like i'm burnt like it's like i like burning like it just like i was just so starved for well yeah because when you just when you just sort of do that what you were saying before is like date people that you you can yeah you know and you can manage it yeah there's no trust really but there's no threat either yeah and it's just like what is that yeah it's just a weird waste of time. And it was just, I would get upset with myself and then I'd be like, and then I'm completely disrespect these people I'm with.

But also don't you think that like, you don't believe you're lovable or can love? Yeah, there's that rotten thing. Like I really like at the core thought I was rotten and it was interesting because I used to go back to my high school. I didn't like realize the trauma. It was such denial on so many levels.

And I would go back to my high school to visit all like realize the trauma i was such denial on so many levels and i would go back to my high school to visit all the time and up until like four years ago when my best friend who was also a victim of um of molestation and assault and stuff like that and she was like stop like fuck these people because i was like they made me feel terrible i would go in i remember the year after it happened i went in to go to the graduation ceremony and I popped my head in to see the art teacher that had helped me, who I'd gone to. And I lean my head in and he goes, get out. This is for current graduates and screamed at me. And I remember like being like in such shock because I was going back to be like, hey, hey, like, thank you. hey hey like thank you ah like um you know not thank you but i think i was just trying to get approval from them because i was just really left right alone in that situation and um that hurts and so i go back he said that i remember just like crumbling in the hallway and the janitor walked by this guy frank and he went i saw that he's like i just want you to always call me blondie but not in like a jerk off on your leg sort of way he was very nice he goes i saw he's like blonde i just want to let you know like

i saw what just happened there i saw the way they treated you they did you real dirty i just want you to know i know that someone saw it and i was like oh thank god so then i never i'm always like did i make him up is he imaginary but then i did i got a message from one of my teachers the other day where she was like, well, I don't know. Maybe I'll read it. I haven't responded to her yet, but I will. It's just so much, you know? Just the other day? Yeah.

She goes, blah, blah, blah, blah. She goes, there's so much more I want to say to you. Yeah. Mostly that I'm sorry. You went through a lot. Damn. And I don't think I want to say to you. Mostly that I'm sorry. You went through a lot. Damn. And I don't think I gave you everything you needed. I tried, but that's not good enough.

I know that if you were my advisee today, I would have had much more to offer. I love what a badass you are and always have been. I loved you dearly when you were mine. She was talking about when I was her advisee. And I hope you felt that that's nice yeah it's nice like I got I'm like trying to work on forgiving and stuff but

who are you working with what are you doing to help you through this stuff I'm just like kind of I'm not in therapy right now but I you know want to be it's just me and DMT just kidding I haven't done DMT in a little while but yeah I just I don't know right now I'm kind while, but, um, yeah, I just, um, I don't know right now

I'm kind of on like a scavenger hunt, I guess. Well, you feel like you have the support, you're in a relationship that's like really open you up and maybe you're a little more able to process this stuff. Yeah. I feel like I feel, uh, I feel protected, but also I feel very strong and I can look back on the, all the situations and know that I really did, uh also I feel very strong and I can look back on all the situations and know that I really did fight for myself. Yeah, definitely.

But when you think of these gaps, I mean, what is it that you need to know now? I just like, how did this happen? To me, it's just like, how? I'm just so curious about his lawyer. How can you like... I guess it's just like how like i'm just so curious about like his lawyer like how can you like i guess it's me seeking approval still because it's like how could you like just label me as like fucking bad or something or like it's just so like that guy well it was just like all like it just felt like everyone it was just so hard like why is my fucking softball

coach or my fucking the girl from my softball team i can't remember if he was the coach or not but like i just don't there are things i didn't ask them like i i ask questions now and i don't i'm not afraid of hearing answers or right so so a lot of it is around what happened, but also why did that they demonize you? And then why did everybody believe them? Right. And it's not that like, like, it just felt like people were like other people around me were being protected from me. I just am curious.

I also am curious about because I was trying to Google like the details of the trial and it's just not anywhere. I'm just curious about, because I was trying to Google like the details of the trial and it's just not anywhere. I'm just curious about, I want to remember what happened. Well, it's fortunate and good that, you know, that so much good stuff is happening in your life career wise. I'm real happy, yeah.

And, you know, emotionally that, you know, maybe while your heart's open, you could figure that out. Yeah. Not for any reason other than it'll give you relief right yeah i mean no for sure no one deserves a break in the story no it's no like breaks or anything but it's like you know for myself it was just like it all kind of came to a head after the election it was just jarring it was jarring i just was like so not expecting that and then and

you know i went to the women's market and i just saw like so not expecting that and then and the you know i went to the women's market and i just saw like all these like crying well like i was like oh my god we're like in some fucking we're like there's a lot of traumatized yeah yeah i'm so relieved like to be dealing with all this shit feels so like it's hard but it's like thank god i can move on i can start remembering things i can read a book i can like try to like learn and stuff now you don't have to be so fucking defensive all the time yeah you don't have to be so fucking defensive all the time yeah i don't have to be all goddamn defensive well sometimes i do no but you know what i mean no yeah no i know i was just being defensive for fun i got it okay yeah but like

but no but like you know you got you know you can you know you can feel strong enough to to let the better side of yourself yeah i always think about my twin brother said to me he's got a wife and two daughters at the time he only had one daughter we were on vacation and his wife's an atheist and i go aren't you an atheist he goes he's are you kidding me he's like have you seen my wife and daughter like of course i believe in god and i kind of feel that way about my life right now where it's like like not like god's hanging like you know like this catholic dude or whatever but like i feel like that uh like there's got to be something that got me to this shit that's like where i just feel like i'm supposed to be you know yeah i i i think maybe i should look at it like that yeah it's not like

for you yeah thank you yes but just like god's like the word but not no i know i know yeah like you know like there is something about hanging in and about fighting the fight that you know eventually you know like i think a lot of the stuff that's happened even culturally like if if what had happened uh in the election or what had happened with the women's movement did not happen the court didn't happen who the fuck knows yeah yeah for sure i mean i had to be like triggered into the the process and i i like you know it's funny i did ask i was gonna tell you i like i did ask with my friend up in the Burbank Hills and her like beautiful house. And there was a bear loose that day.

Yeah. And I ran into the, like, I saw the bear before we took acid. I saw it was crossing the street. I was going to yoga and I make eye contact with the bear. My friend's husband's been searching for the bear all morning. So I'm like going down the hill. I make eye contact with the bear. I call my friend.

I'm like, dude, get peed out here. I found the fucking bear. And she goes, I just took acid. And I'm like, oh my God. All call my friend. I'm like, dude, get peed out here. I found the fucking bear. And she goes, I just took acid. And I'm like, oh, my God. All right, well, I'm coming back. I guess you couldn't wait for me to fucking yoga. So then I'm like, I saw the bear. I got to do the acid.

So then I turn. I go back. And we take this fucking amazing acid my friend made in Santa Fe. And I just had this amazing experience. And everything was bear related because of this. So the bears there's helicopters going around searching for the bear everyone's there's animal controls going up and down uh trying to find the bear and then um we're sitting out in their like hot tub and their

porch just like everything's beautiful and i just went like holy shit this whole time i thought it was a piece of shit and i've been a fucking pot of honey this whole time. Holy. So now I'm just like, if I put myself in as a pot of honey and I look back at everything, I go, yeah, I was a pot of honey. The whole fucking time I was so mad at myself and I'm like, no, I was fucking, I was just a pot of honey. That's great. Yeah, I feel good. Well, that's, I mean, I think that's a good metaphor.

Yeah. Thanks, Annie. Thanks, man. That was me and Annie Letterman on Thanksgiving. Was that appropriate for Thanksgiving? I hope so. Did you take a nice long walk? Did it help out?

Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products

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