WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 974 - Ted Alexandro

Episode Date: December 6, 2018

Ted Alexandro is a comic who believes deeply in social responsibility. Whether it’s responsibility to his fellow comics as he fought for better pay from clubs, or to his fellow citizens as part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, or to his audience as he wrestles with effectively addressing the Trump Era on the comedy stage. Ted talks with Marc about the evolving nature of a comedian’s role in the culture, how his experience as an elementary school teacher prepared him for standup, and why he felt it was necessary to do material at the Comedy Cellar that was critical of Louis CK’s return to the Comedy Cellar. This episode is sponsored by Funny or Die's No Activity on CBS All Access, Omaha Steaks, Molekule, and YouTube Music. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the

fucking ears? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my show. This is my podcast. It's called WTF. Welcome to it. I imagine most of you listening have been here before. Welcome back to you new folks. Well, there's a lot going on what does that even mean what am i who am i rachel maddow hey it's uh tonight uh strap in because there's a lot going on well there's a lot of stuff i mean if you're new to wtf lordy lordy lord knows there's an entire archive you can access through stitcher just there's like i don't even know what episode we're on now. We're almost up to a thousand, not far from it. Most recent 50 are always free.

And, you know, there's a lot there. So enjoy yourselves. And if you would take some of the advice, it's interesting advice that I can give you from listeners. The emails that come in about the show, many people enjoy the ones where they don't know who the person is more than the person they know. Yeah. But anyways, today, Ted Alexandro is here.

Ted is a comedian. I've known Ted for years. He's very funny. New York guy. He's got a special out now called Senior Class of Earth. It's available through All Things Comedy. You can go to atcspecials.com to buy it or rent it.

All Things Comedy is actually All Things Comedians in the sense that it's owned and operated by comedians. I don't know who exactly is all involved, but I know Bill Burr and Al Madrigal are involved. Comedic empire builders over there at All Things Comedy. So a couple of things to take care of right now. There's a new batch of handmade WTF mugs for the holidays. These are the same mugs I give my guests. They're very beautiful. They're hand-thrown. You can go to brianrjones.com slash shop to get yours starting today at noon eastern. And they always go very fast. And if you want more WTF merch for gift giving or for yourself, you can get 30% off all of the stuff that we have available

in our merch thing right now, 30% off. You can go to pod swag.com slash WTF, or click on the merch link at WTF pod.com. Then use WTF as the code at checkout, and you can get some new shirts. We've got some signed posters. We've got the limited run Gonzo poster from Phoenix. You can get a signed book, all 30% off when you use WTF at checkout. All right, this is personal business I'm getting at. These aren't paid sponsor plugs these are me plugs and i got one more to be honest with you the audio version of too real

which is my last special that i did on netflix now available on audio as a download there's a few vinyl ones around but i didn't do a big run so so I don't even know. I'm not even sure where you can get them. But you can get this one if you go to the link on the homepage of WTFpod.com. Okay, that said, that mug, I can't tell you how many guests I talk to that say that that's their mug. That's the one they're using. That's the go-to mug, that Brian R. Jones WTF mug. But that aside, happy Chanukah to those of you who are Hanukkan, who are Hanukking-ing. Try to say something stupid and it comes out

more stupid. Those of you who are doing the Hanukkah, and those of you Jews who are not doing it but are still Jews, and I just reminded you that it's Hanukkah, happy Hanukkah. I think we're pretty well into it. What day is today? The 6th? So that's 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th. The 5th night of Hanukkah, that's five candles plus the one that's taller than the other ones.

Just a reminder, if you didn't get a new box of candles, it's always a mistake if you're a Jew that decides, like, this year I'm going to do it, and you you got a few candles left or you got enough candles left. If there's even like two or three candles out of that box that are missing because you did it one night and decided to bail four years ago, you're going to come up short at the end and you're going to have a sad looking menorah on the eighth night because it ain't going to be right. The count's going to be off. It's going to be off. Because it ain't going to be right. The count's going to be off. It's going to be off.

My girlfriend, partner, I don't, I'm still not clear. Sarah the painter bought me some fancy artisanal, I believe, maybe even Hanukkah candles. And she gave them to me and I was like, thank you. And then today or yesterday I was on the phone with her and I'm like, is it Hanukkah? Did it already start? She's like, yeah. Haven't you been doing it? And I'm like, no, I mean, I know you got me the candles and that was a good gesture, but what am I just going to be home alone with a menorah and my, uh, my little yarmulke on that. I got to find and lighting it, saying the little, uh, the little prayers by myself. That's, that's no fun. If there's no one there to witness it i guess i could do it maybe it would be moving but uh but maybe she's coming over maybe we'll do it maybe i'll let her see that part of myself it's always an interesting

thing when you go out with a non-jew and you're a jew jew you do the thing you're like all right you want to see what it looks like you want want to see the Jew thing? Here we go. Dim the lights. Strap in. It's going to get crazy here. Baruch atah Adonai. Look out! Eloheinu melech haolam.

Oh, God! Gee, this is crazy! Happy Hanukkah. Nonetheless, I think is the point of what I'm saying here so I've been enjoying the emails subject line hope giver dear mark this I've never done before and truth be told it's not a very Irish thing to do where I'm from he's from Ireland but I've listened to others thanking you so I felt it at least courteous to do the same. I've been listening to your podcast for roughly around 10 years now,

and will continue to do so as long as you don't give up. Please don't. I started listening to your podcast when my wife took ill at that time. Cancer. That's not an insult. It's just I had to find something to occupy my mind whilst I was waiting around in hospitals for long periods of time. My wife was diagnosed with cancer a year after we got married. And we were also devastatingly told that if she survived, we would never be able to have children. Now, I was not the one going through the horrendous treatment. I was not the one going through the pain. I was not the one who did not know whether they were going to live or die.

The hospital doctors, nurses were all amazing. And obviously we had a great deal of luck on our side. But my wife, who is alive and well today, said that me being there and always being positive really helped her through it. Well, this is how I thank you. Your podcast really helped me through those years. I'm not saying it changed me as a human being or anything like that, but you can't imagine, maybe you can, how valuable listening to you talk through people's problems, issues, lives really helps someone like me who just needed to hear that everyone has shit,

that shit can be there every day in all forms, and that shit can break you down if you let it. It kept me afloat, and even though I don't know you, I'm sure that me calling you a giver of hope might seem paradoxical to you, but there it is. So this is my thank you, my tip of the hat. Keep up the good work. P.S. My. I'm glad to hear that, John. Congratulations. I'm very happy for you too. I really am. Man. I love doing this show. I mean, But it's, you know, I love doing this show. I mean, God damn.

So Ted Alexandro, very smart guy, good guy, earnest guy. Bottom line, though, funny guy. Known him for a long time. Been wanting to talk to him. Always thought he kind of was, you know, weird with me. But it turns out, of course, he wasn't. Just me projecting onto him, who's not the same kind of boundaryless weirdo that I am, needy boundaryless weirdo. This is me talking to Ted

Alexandro here in the garage. His stand-up special, Senior Class of Earth, is available through All Things Comedy. Go to atcspecials.com to buy or rent it. This is me and Ted Alexandro. to buy or rent it. This is me and Ted Alexander. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset,

hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. So, Ted, I have not... We did a live WTF. How long ago was it? Do you know? You seem like a guy that would know. You know, I don't. Oh, really?

I'm going to say seven or eight years. Right? Yeah. And I don't know if I've seen you much since then. Is that right? Honestly, I don't know if we've seen each other at all since then. That's crazy. Right? Well, it is kind of because, like, you know, I don't think I'm of the generation you are.

Am I? I think I'm the one before you. You are, yeah. I would say the class ahead of me. Yeah. Like, how old are you? I'm 49. I'll be 50 in January.

We're close. Yeah. Did you start late? Well, I mean, 23. Wow. So we are... You were always, like, there, and you were always being funny. But there was a while there where I was like, he seems very intense, very serious.

Oh, that won't people still think that about me. You were right. The funny thing is, like, I was just going over, like, some of the stuff in your bio. Yeah. And now I can't get the song Working Class Hero by John Lennon out of my head. I don't know why. You could do worse than that. I don't know why that happened exactly.

I think it was the involvement in the occupy that'll get you every time the involvement and then the the uh you got us more money yeah i remember that delicate that delicate time you've very you've always been at the spearhead uh of the movement of getting us 10 more dollars opening my mouth yeah yeah you know i did 10 adds up though right no no it was more than that, wasn't it? Well, initially it was $10. It was. Initially it was. It went from $50 to $60, I think, on the weekends.

And then we did it a second time, and we formed the Comedians Coalition. Right, and it was sort of like, yeah, I remember, because I was there. What year was that? Yeah, that was, gosh, that was around that same time, maybe seven, eight years ago. Right, and there was a little divisive like because people didn't want to like you know don't don't you don't want to upset manny and esty yes you know no you know it was so ridiculous it was ridiculous because what were we really fighting like there was that there was actually a fight at all for another 10 12 dollars and it became like 25 right it eventually became 25 yeah. And I think it's gone up once or twice since, like, unprovoked by us, which is nice.

So, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, what it stemmed from was these were conversations that we were having amongst ourselves all the time. Right. And, like, we're still making the same money we made in, like, you know, since the 80s, I think it hadn't changed. Since the 80s, I think it hadn't changed. Well, I don't think people realize either, like the regular person, when you do a spot at the comedy store here or at the comedy cellar on a weekday, on a showcase night, I don't even remember what were we making, like 15 bucks on Monday through Thursday for a 15-minute spot.

And then on Friday and Saturday, it was originally 50 bucks. I think you're're right so in order to make a living before you could really do the road that was the thing about new york is that you had to figure out how to get into three or four clubs and then run around yes and do like four or five spots at each just to walk out of the weekend with 400 bucks or whatever and you know what's funny is my first like year or so that I was passed at the strip, the comic strip. Right. Here's the mentality. I didn't even realize that you get paid. So I was doing weekend spots at the strip.

Right. And walking out. And one day, like a year later, somebody stopped. I don't know if it was Vic Henley or somebody was like, oh, did you sign for your money? And I was like, money? So somebody was collecting my money for like a year later, somebody, I don't know if it was Vic Henley or somebody was like, oh, did you sign for your money? And I was like, money? So somebody was collecting my money for like a year. Maybe that's why I was getting booked. I don't know.

You never got it back? No, I didn't say it. I mean, like a year had gone by where I was just like, I'm past at the strip. You're doing free spots? Pretty much. Yeah. That's funny that we make that assumption because there is something about, you know, being self-employed where for a long time you don't feel like you're really working. Yeah. That's funny that we make that assumption because there is something about being self-employed where for a long time you don't feel like you're really working.

Yeah. Because you're sort of like, or it's not even, it's before you realize you're self-employed. When you just want to be a comic. Right. Like the first time you get like $25, you're like, oh my God. Yes. This is amazing. Absolutely.

Yeah. And I think that's the mentality that kind of led to us all accepting that, okay, as long as I'm in at this club and that club, that is really the goal. Right. And then if I'm getting 20 bucks, that mentality was kind of baked into our thinking. And also that we just at stage time, legitimate stage time. Right. All of which is important. Yeah. Because back then, when did you start?

I started 92-ish and 94 as a solo. At first, I was part of a duo with my friend, Hollis James. No kidding. Yeah. So, like, back then, there was no, the alt scene was not happening. And, you know, if you wanted to get spots, you had to figure out a way how to get them at clubs. You know what's funny is the alt scene was almost like rooms that were worse than the clubs. Like going to Uncle Joey's in Staten Island or something where it was alt but alternatively bad.

I think that arguably they're still worse than the clubs, really. Oh, yeah. they're still they're still worse than the clubs really I mean like well alt comedy kind of saved my ass because it it gave me a venue to to sort of

generate the way I generate which is you know through improvising the shit because it's harder to do that at a club but there was a period

though there where you're like well now we got to get into these places and then you're just talking to a dude you know and you're like hey man can I do your room it's like no no no you know like who the fuck are you you're just talking to a dude. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, hey man, can I do your room?

It's like, no, no, no. You know, like, who the fuck are you? Yes. Yes. I passed at the strip in the cellar. Right. Well, we're not really doing anything. It was a concern.

Yeah. It is, it's fascinating how things have evolved. Yeah. And again, like you being that class ahead of me, just, just by a few years, you germinated like this whole other scene yeah that and then i would say the storytelling scene was on the heels of that all of these things that really uh opened up comedy in a great way i think so in our generation well i think so and ultimately what happened though which is weird is that most of the guys that really sort of did that original

all thing they were they were club comics yes and then it sort of come back around the difference now that's happened is that we don't have to rely on a comedy club to make a living because somehow because of you know uh where media is and also uh that most of us who started in clubs have you know come back around to clubs or we can do smaller theaters now you know without you know the alt thing really just became part of your creative process. You don't have to stay there. Yeah. I don't even know if it exists anymore. Now it's just, it just seems that what the alt scene has become

is that there's a lot more open mics. Yes. Yeah, I would say that's true. In a lot of different places. Yeah, and you'll see a lot of good comedy and a lot of bad comedy, whether you're at an alt club or a regular club. Just like open mics. That's the way it is.

So wait, where'd you grow up? I grew up in Queens. You did? Yeah. In Astoria? Belrose, which is maybe 30 minutes from Astoria, where I live now. Way out in Queens. Yeah, yeah.

Kind of the Queens-Long Island border. Uh-huh. Grew up- Is it Greek? No. On my dad's side, Italian. My mom's a mix of

English, French, German, Irish. Yeah, they were both New Yorkers. Yeah? Yeah,

they met in Queens. They met in Queens? Yeah. Yeah, they met when they were like 14, 15 years old at a bowling alley.

In Queens? In Queens, where I grew up. I grew up in the house that my mom grew up in. Wow. I'm one of five, two brothers,

two sisters. Really? Where are you, in the middle? I mom grew up in. Wow. I'm one of five, two brothers, two sisters. Really? Where are you, in the middle? I am the second oldest. Yeah. Yeah. So we grew up in the house that my mom grew up in. And then now my parents in their retirement are living in the house that my dad grew up in.

So they're still- Where is it, down the street? Not quite, but yeah, it's maybe a couple miles. Yeah. Yeah. What happened to the old house? They sold it to a young couple. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Is it like it turning into something out there? I don't think so. I don't think so. You mean like a regular young couple, not a hipster young couple? No, it's not that kind of thing. It's just a young, like a struggling young couple. So there's five of you? Yeah.

Yeah. There's five of us. Yeah. We were all kind of artistic. You know, my brother's a poet. All of us acted in high school. A working poet? Well, is there such a thing?

Yeah. He's working in terms of writing all the time. Is he teaching or anything? You know, he's a peer-to-peer counselor at a mental hospital. You know, he's bipolar, so he's kind of his whole life. He's my older brother, so it's him, then me, my brother Dave, my sisters. Yeah, two sisters. So my brother, yeah, Rich was like a real inspiration because he dealt with his, you know, his bipolar.

I think that's our first presidential alert. There we go, huh? Is it? Yes. What's going on? This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. Wow. I bet you got one.

Did you get one? I shut my phone off. Did you? Apparently not. Just see if you got one. It's kind of a creepy totalitarian thing. You know, even if I did, I think I shut those things off unless you can't opt out. I got to opt out of that. Like now I got Trump texting me. Exactly. It's all I fucking needed. You know?

What the fuck? That's like creepy, man. So what does it exactly say? It's a test of- This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is needed. Presidential alert. no action is needed presidential alert that's gross dude it's fucking crazy oh my god presidential alert no action is needed i just want you to know that i have access to your phone yeah that like wait it is it is it's something now it is there it is yeah it just came through this is a test of the national wireless emergency alert system no action needed what the fuck is happening and my phone is vibrating wow well i'm glad we shared that that's creepy dude yeah like now what he's going to be texting us apparently hey sad guy like that twitter is not enough twitter's not enough now he's got a fucking now we're going to wake up in the middle of the night just kidding the fuck jesus christ disturbing so you're it is the whole thing is disturbing everything's disturbing it is and we're all at each other's throats because of this fucking monster yes um

so your brother's bipolar that's something you got in your family yeah yeah my mom as well had really yeah yeah um you know thankfully they both really really have had this kind of journey to wellness and to managing. And they're doing all right. They're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Mom is a retired teacher and she's been great for, you know, probably like, I don't know, 25 years. They just figured out the medicine?

They figured out the medicine, the whole kind of comprehensive lifestyle. Really? Diet, exercise, meditation, therapy. Really? They're doing all of it and they're managing pretty well. They're doing well. And my brother Rich, you know, he's a real inspiration now. He's a peer-to-peer counselor with people who are hospitalized or outpatient.

Wow. And, yeah, as a poet, too, I think he has that. He just has a real knack for, you know, I think he's like a flesh and blood example to them. Like, look, you can, you know, he's like, i used to be in this hospital yeah it's great it's like it's like uh like drug addicts talking to drug addicts but like but bipolar is like you know my old man's got depression problems and like you know if the problem usually is that they they like you know the the high so much that they don't they don't uh take the medicine that's right. That's right. Yeah. And I think my brother Rich struggled with that. Went through that?

Yeah. Yeah. The thing of like- I feel alive. Yeah. Yeah. Does he publish his poetry? Yes.

He has a book out. That's great. Yeah. And what's the other ones do? My brother Dave is a statistical analysis for State of Connecticut. State of Connecticut? Statistical analyst? Yeah.

Oh, that's interesting, I guess. Used to be a really smart math guy. Oh, he's a math guy. Yeah. He was a teacher? He was a teacher at an all-girls school and coached and did all that for many years. And what did the girls do? What did the sisters do?

My sister, Trish, is an actress. Really? Yep, yep. Is she doing all right with that? Yeah, yeah. She's acting, writing her own stuff, putting up shows, and doing all right yeah yeah she's doing you know like she's acting writing her own stuff putting up shows uh and doing personal training in the day you know so she's got both gigs going she's great though yeah and uh and my sister amy is uh she's uh

into like astrology she's an astrologer she does like readings and stuff like really and works at a school during the day. Yeah. What does she do at the school? She's like an executive assistant, secretary kind of thing. Yeah. It's sort of interesting that you got all these creative teaching people that are doing things for other people, somewhat selfless. So your mother was a teacher? My mother and father were both teachers.

They were both teachers. And I taught for five years when I first got out of school. I remember when you started doing standup. I mean, it was like you were doing the, so. And I taught for five years when I first got out of school. I remember when you started doing stand-up. I mean, it was like you were doing the, I was a teacher thing. That was the whole shtick, yeah. And like Todd Berry was, I was a substitute teacher thing. That's right. So you took it a little further.

I was more committed, yeah. But so they were always sort of, your parents were always supportive, embracing, you know, whatever the kid's imagination would let them do. My parents were very supportive. They were kind of hippies, you know whatever the kids imagination would let them do my parents were very supportive they were kind of hippies you know like they were yeah yeah you know it's funny my earliest childhood memories are in india we lived in india for a year when i was about four or five years old really yeah yeah my parents for a whole year yeah yeah my parents. For a whole year. Yeah, yeah. My parents were teaching over there. And so, yeah, it was the three boys at the time. I was about five.

And yeah, my earliest childhood memories are our house in India. Have you been back? No, my mom and dad just went back for the first time in 40 years. Just to visit? Yeah, they were invited back by some friends who I guess they were over there with. Wow. And so they had like a big kind of celebration. But yeah, to your point, yeah, my mom and dad are just, yeah, they're very supportive, loving people in general.

Yeah. For all five of us, they're kind of like a bedrock of just, yeah, they're loving but not in an obtrusive way. They can be as obtrusive as you need them to be. you're saying you had good parents i did i did and you and you seem like a guy that did i'm grateful yeah no i did i did for sure you're very uh you know practically uh practical and decent man well thank you that's how you always struck me thank you other times i just thought you didn't like me but that was which funny. Which is funny because, you know, I was saying when I came in and we said we'd talk here. I think the only, my most memorable experience working with you was we worked, you don't have to be worried. We worked at Cobb's together in San Francisco.

I got a worried face. Yeah. Which the old Cobb's like down in the cannery? The old Cobb's. Not the big old horrible Cob cobs, but the original. The original one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And I was excited to work with you because you were like a headliner. You were like an established guy. And it was like fun to watch you work the whole time because you work differently than most people that I worked with. And like you said earlier, like kind of thinking through stuff on stage. So, yeah, it was exciting. But, yeah, it's like you did have that energy of like uh do you like me do you not like what's your deal like so you know like there was a whole like yeah like you couldn't trust me to just like yeah we're just yeah i'm just a dude and we're working together yeah i have

a hard time with uh with people with actual boundaries and that are sort of grounded i'm like i don't seem to be fucking with you at all like you like i don't like i'm projecting a lot onto you and i don't think you like i couldn't i couldn't read it wasn't working with you yeah yeah man i'm trying to remember that i'm trying to remember that week things are starting to fade well your your wife at the time was working with us as well uh mishna mishna was opening i was meddling no, yeah. So it was the three of us. Wow. So I must have come up from here to go do that. Yeah.

And did you know her? Did you know her when we started? I think we had met like in New York, but I didn't know her well. I knew you a little bit better, but I didn't know you that well either. I feel like I remember when you started doing it. So how do you get from, was it just, like, I've met, there's several people that I've talked to in here, creative people whose parents were teachers. Yeah.

And that seems to read that teachers are sort of embrace someone's desire to do what they want to do, but also to be practical about it on some level. But it seems like that two of you guys, or three in a way, or four even, having got involved with schools and with teaching. Sure. Is that just something you, I mean, obviously your parents were like, you should be teachers, but you gravitated towards that? It just felt like the right thing to do or something you wanted to do?

What was that? I would say that, well, what's interesting is none of us are doing what we got our degrees in. Which is? Well, for me, it was elementary education. It was actual elementary education. I had studied jazz piano. That was my initial major. You still play?

No. I mean, here and there. education i had to do them i had studied jazz piano that was my initial major play no i mean like here and there like i just i have an apartment so occasionally i'll take the keyboard out but it's very rare but you must have what you grew up taking lessons yes grew up taking lessons played a lot until i was in college you know and then you must have been serious i was serious up until about age 20 when i just kind of realized like i'm not a jazz pianist like i was surrounded by these people who were so talented. And I'm like, nah, this is, I'm, you know when you're, like, struggling too much to make something happen. Right, it's not natural.

It's not natural. You just see a dude that just goes out there, like, monk style with three notes. And you're like, what the fuck was that? Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's like a language that I'm not fluent in. Right, yeah, yeah. So that was, like, depressing, but I just made my shift into uh you know education at that point just as like i guess i gotta do something so but i was also doing stuff in the theater department um just on a whim i

would audition for shows then started doing some stand-up yeah you know as part of a duo uh so in college yeah and my parents were were supportive they were always i think they had that blend of like yeah of course we support anything you want to try to do yeah but there was i and i think it's probably just hardwired in me too of like i i want to make sure i'm taking care of you know i want to pay my bills and right so i was i was teaching i was like substitute teaching initially yeah and then i just got hired full-time to be a music teacher so i did that for five years wow it's just like i don't uh like the paying the bills thing it's just sort of weird when i think

back on you know pursuing what we do it's it's really sort of crazy but i i like that because a teacher is not a big money gig. No. But you must have thought, like, you must get some joy out of doing it, out of helping kids. Yeah. I loved it in the sense of helping kids, introducing them to the arts. That was it, huh? So you're music. I was a music teacher.

I also did the plays with them. So we'd put up, like, Sound of Music or whatever. Really? For elementary? For elementary, yeah. Yeah. We had a pretty good department. I was a music teacher. I also did the plays with them. So we'd put up like Sound of Music or whatever. Really? For elementary? For elementary, yeah. Yeah, we had a pretty good department. Our principal was very supportive. So yeah, we kind of had carte blanche to do what we wanted. You were the artsy guy.

I was the artsy guy. Luckily, I had a couple other people that I could collaborate with. Right. So yeah, it was like, you know, the thing that I think wound up inadvertently helping me was your public speaking. You know, I was in front of like 100 kids because they crammed a lot of kids together. So it would be like three classes at once. Right.

So I was speaking. For the music stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because of budget cuts, you get a bunch of kids at once. So I would be speaking in front of like 100 kids, 200 kids. So on some level, without realizing it, you're kind of sharpening your public speaking yeah like

just keeping people's attention all that stuff you know and if they're kids you're really you gotta gotta gotta go over the top to keep that attention absolutely do yeah and on some like second shows on a saturday for sure that's gonna come in handy oh man how's everybody doing that's right it was the same like let me go really big you know really loud yeah yeah you gotta get that that's good uh those are good chops to have for sure for that uh for the drunkie show yes yeah it helped but i just like i've been working with kids like i i can't imagine like for me like just thinking about it there's got to be just this sort of this uh this beautiful bittersweet thing because at that age in elementary school, they're already sort of defined.

So, like, right? So, like, you're seeing these personalities and how they're engaging with each other. And there's got to be every day you're just like, oh, that guy, that kid's going to be trouble. Or that kid's going to have a hard time. Yes. Like, just like every day sort of like it's just so because they're so brutal. Well, yeah, you can project. You see, like, every day, sort of, like, it's just so, because they're so brutal. Well, yeah, you can project. You see, like, the little version.

Right. And you kind of can project, like, all right, I see where this is going, and it's not good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was the guy, that guy made cry. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of that. But, yeah, it's interesting, too, because I was K through five. As a music teacher, I had the whole school.

Oh, yeah. So, it was that thing of, like, kids are our babies you know they're they're just they're yeah it's unbelievable that they're even out of their homes yeah right and then the fifth graders are like what you're saying you're kind of seeing like the monsters happen yes yes yeah so yeah disruptive ones the ones that have no interest in what you're doing. Yep. And then the fragile ones that are trying to get you to like, please you. Yes.

And then they get shit from the one that's like, yeah, what are you doing? You're kissing the teacher's ass. All of it. And it's Queens on top of it. So you got a full range of fucking psycho kids. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the UN really.

It was kids from all over right you know yeah yeah i forget that about queens it's like the most diverse place in the fucking world yeah is it though actually it it is i think it's one of them it queens county if i'm not mistaken is the most diverse place in the world i couldn't believe it like when i lived in astoria and like i remember because you moved there after me. Yeah. Like I was, I was long, I was there with long, I don't even know where it's at now, but like when I was there, it's like as Brooklyn was getting hip and I don't know nothing about Brooklyn, zero.

I don't have any concept of Brooklyn. Yeah. But like people were like, is Queens starting to happen? I'm like, Queens is not going to happen. It's happening. Astoria is happening. Yeah. Astoria is hip.

It's like restaurants bars a lot of the old mom and pop things are gone and it's like yeah really yeah because i was there for i had that apartment for like a decade or more there just seemed to be a style to queens that was eclectic and international but it did not seem movable well Well, the thing about Astoria that I think made it movable was all of the Greek people that primarily owned everything realized, oh, we can cash in because all of the people that are getting priced out of Manhattan or Brooklyn. So yeah, that's how- So that's what happened.

Now it's like an equal balance of like, it's still a Greek neighborhood, but then I think they made money on bringing in the hipsters. I was always fascinated that you get off the train. I used to get off at 30th, right? So there was just those vegetable markets. There was two almost identical vegetable markets. Yes. But at all hours.

There was Muslim families, Greek. Just families from other countries shopping with young children at two in the morning. That's right. It's like, they don't sleep? They't close yeah it's true but like why are the kids out yeah no they start to realize well people parent differently in different places you know that's right yeah they were like on a night shift the kids were like doing the opposite it's i don't i just it was always exciting to me yeah because. Because almost at any hour, there was people looking at vegetables. I'm like, I just got done working. It's 1.30.

Yes. People looking at vegetables. I don't even know what the vegetables are sometimes. And the vegetables would be arriving at all different hours of the day, too. I really dug it. So you're teaching, and for five years you did this? I did this for five years. So you had insurance.

You were in, it looked like a lifetime thing? No, no, I never considered it lifetime because I was doing more and more stand-up. With a guy? Well, the first two years with a guy, but then I broke off and kind of like, he was kind of doing his own writing and stuff

and I was more and more starting to do it solo. How'd you meet that guy? Queens College, when I was studying education there uh once i went to cc real queen's guy well i went to ccny in manhattan for the jazz piano thing right but when that didn't work out i transferred to queen that must have been heartbreaking just sort of like i'm gonna be a musician and then you get there when you see all these kind of savants and weirdos i was pretty crestfallen i was like i guess i'm just gonna be a teacher in queens you know it's like do you remember the moment of watching someone else play piano were you like well i do you do i do i distinctly remember i two things i remember

one was there was a guy in my class yeah who had like the longest fingers i'd ever seen right off they were like spider just like like so long, spindly. And he was playing like a monk tune. And it was so like simultaneously beautiful and heartbreaking because he was like saying to me, you'll never be able to do this. That's how it was registering. It was like, wow,

he's so talented and I'm never going to be able to do that. So that was, yeah, that was one moment that really resonated. Another was Ron Carter, the legendary bass player with Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock. He was the head of the jazz department at CCNY. So you had to play in front of him for your jury, they called it, at the end of the semester. So I played in front of him and a few other professors. And it was fine, but i just felt so nervous and so

again like that feeling of like this isn't coming naturally this isn't what i'm meant to do uh yeah so playing in front of ron carter again was thrilling but also an affirmation of like i should ron carter shouldn't have to be listening to me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But did you feel like, because like expression is weird, you know, in terms of like what you choose to do for your creative expression. And it seems that the requirements, you know, for getting your craft in place as a pianist and then as a jazz pianist and then to be able to journey out. Oh, yeah. It's like, you know.

It's years, yeah. Well, it's years, but it's also a disposition. It's sort of like, can I let myself, am I going to have that freedom of expression that I want? And I guess some of it's natural. Like my brother was a tennis player, and he knew early on that he was going to have to work twice as hard because he just didn't have the natural ability.

Right. Is it the same with piano? Well, you know what it is? I think for us as comics, I think we have the ability to do what you just said in terms of stand-up. I didn't have that ability with the piano. I was fine. I was always like the guy who played piano up until high school, even into college. Yeah.

I could play the piano, but I was not a professional. There was levels that I knew were beyond me. You couldn't make it your own couldn't make it my own yeah which is what i wanted to do i wanted something to be right my expression well it's sort of like but you know you're right though that if you i don't know how you you generate comedy but i watched that thing you did about louis because that got around got you some juice that got around but like what i noticed about it more than you know what was being said was that was that the first time you did it the one that had the tape that got out it was maybe uh among the i did it all that week that he came back so maybe it was like the fifth time i had but like because there was a like you know that was one of those things where you know sadly you know in our game in our

racket that you you know when you're going to choose you know even somebody who's disgraced you're going to choose to kind of like use them as a point of reference to make a broader point uh but like you know i saw that just talking about jazz where you're choosing your beats like you know you're you're moving slower that's right your weight because you you know you're finding you're finding it right yeah right and then like you know how is it going to not just be a fuck you louie thing absolutely you know and and the bigger piece about culture and you know like but i saw you deliberating yeah and it was nice it's a nice timing but there that's that freedom is that that's what we've earned after a decade or two of doing this is that like i'm going to go out there and i'm going to see, you know, where this goes.

Because with what we do after a certain point, thankfully, if it's not working, you can sort of like, I can get out of this. That's right. And you literally said that and it was working. Especially women were very excited, you know, but I don't know what the experience was because I know that room. But I know that like there must have been some people that were kind of like, whoa, it's kind of. Yeah, yeah. It was a mixed bag you know uh i think deliberate is the is the right word in general deliberating whether or not to do the stuff right deliberating whether or not to put it out right but like i said in the in the piece it's things that i was thinking a lot about and talking a lot about and with this kind of stuff i'm finding it it for myself. You do think about it a lot. And then there comes that point where you're like, how do I make this funny and not spiteful or self-righteous?

further for sharing it because like you said i to me it was more of a macro statement on all of these things it's not specifically like some of the pieces that came out were like comedian slams louie or whatever right to me that's not that's not the point that's quick yeah it's a macro discussion about all of it so to me that was what merited like all right let me share this even though it is like i'm a little ambivalent about putting it out, but it was material I was doing on stage. I was doing it on that stage in particular that week. So to me it felt like, all right, let me make this part of the conversation if it helps. I was happy about it. I was happy for you because like what you realize in our world,

not unlike in Trump world in general, that it's not even a loyalty thing. But the fear of cultural reprisal from your peers or from a contingent in the audience is stifling. So when you're thinking about things like that that are going to be provocative, you have to be willing to shoulder that that's right and that's part of your process well and that doesn't just happen that week you know like that happens because i've been working at the cellar for a long time that happens because i've been working in the style that you're alluding to for a long time and that was something

that evolved too like uh i think it's actually the style that you work in like that became part of my process later i was more heavily written in the early going of my career but then as i got older i could do more thinking on my feet go up with ideas right kind of flesh them out that's the best yeah that's the jazz part absolutely so yeah so i think the the piece does it does show that like you know it has comedic merit too, which was important to me. Right. To show, like, the evolution of things

that are happening right now. And, you know, usually if you see somebody do a set on Conan or whatever, it's stuff that's, like, done. Yeah, you got four and a half minutes. You know all the beats. It's all tight, right? Yeah.

So this, to me, was like, yeah, it showed that process. Well, yeah, but also it was sort of like, um, that we live in a culture right now that there, there are, you know, people do pick sides. It's very divisive on a lot of levels. And there is this sort of, you know, the, the thing I liked about that bit was that you were like, what, what are we yearning for? You know, what, what is it that we used to be that can be seen as better?

Do you know, like, was that freedom or was it really just utter insensitivity? That's right. Right? That's right. You know, and- The PC culture. Right. Yeah, just living in this type of world or that type of world.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think we're talking about kind of basic decency on a lot of levels that's right and like a lot of like people who you know kind of still use that sort of thing everything's two pcs two pc look there are limits to everything but like in terms of of decency in turn like you know we got past the word chinaman eventually you know what i mean we don't call you know african americans or black people colored people anymore. There is an evolution that happens culturally that happens because it's out of decency and respect. Well, anytime I think you're railing against what the new progress is, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. If you're railing against Me Too or if you're railing against women having a voice, you know, all of which is really tied to social media, too, right? Yeah.

People. Oh, boy. Well, that might be a problem. Yeah. You know, all of which is really tied to social media too, right? Yeah. Like people having- Oh boy, well that might be a problem. Well, I mean, yes and no. No, social media in a sense- Yeah. Doesn't let much, there's no air, there's no breath, you know, there's no sort of like, wait a, it's over. Oh yeah, yeah.

There's definitely complications to the way all of that works. But I do think like when voices get through on a mass level, whether it's Me Too or Black Lives Matter, just realizing an epiphany for the mass culture of like, oh, wow, this is way worse than I realized. Things that I was not aware of. That's true. That's true.

Yeah. No, definitely. But yeah, but i thought it was funny i thought it was you know it was it was decent you know you know cultural and and you know and social sat it's not even satire but it's just it's a responsibility of a comic who's awake to sort of address these things however they're going to do it and and i think that you know know, and I think that's one of the big reasons why, you know, people are, outside of being upset with Louis' transgressions, they're upset that, like, he didn't confront,

like, that he's the guy, so he's going to come back and then not talk about it? I think, yeah, that's a big component of the kind of firestorm that's touched off is like you came back after this period of time and yeah you're the you're the one of the truth guys so tell the truth tell the personal truth of it yeah yeah so yeah it is it is that's a whole other thing though that's not really what you were talking about it was just the idea that you know

like hey he just did this it's like yeah but right that's bad that's bad right exactly exactly yeah so like to me um yeah it is it's that hard thing but but also again like artistically or comedically right if this is what i do all the time and again that was the impetus for ultimately sharing it after i talked to fellow comics about it and you know kind of trusted confidants um yeah before doing it you mean no no before putting it out right that's oh yeah i had been doing it for like especially that that full week yeah um and again it's the kind of thing that has a shelf life i that's not the kind of material that i want to be doing well that was the other thing i wanted to point to is that you know in kind of material that I want to be doing every night. Well, that was the other thing I wanted to point to, is that in terms of what we do

and when we do something that requires a certain amount of risk-taking and you're conscious of it, that at the end of it you said, okay, I'm going to do my act now. You're like, this had to be said, and now I'm going to do my other thing. Yeah. Well, it's funny because working that week, the response was interesting from other comics.

Really? Like what? Yeah, just people saying, oh, man, that's heavy. That's really good stuff. Has Noam seen you do that? The owner has Noam seen you do that? Did he see you? Yeah, yeah, he did.

And we had plenty of conversations. You and Noam? Yeah, that whole week we had conversations, so you need to do that. Did he see you? Yeah, yeah, he did. And we had plenty of conversations. You and know him? Yeah, that whole week we had conversations. Because you were doing it? Well, just about the fact that Louis had come back. Right. And then the fact- What, at the table, a lot of people were talking about it,

or just you and know him? No, this was just the two of us, yeah. And what was the nature of those conversations? Well, just like, you know, kind of expressing some concerns about the way that he had come back, you know. Yeah, you had that. Yeah, just saying like for our workspace, you know, like maybe it requires further examination. That was really the extent of it.

Just saying like, you know, this is your club. And then what kind of environment do we want to have that's, you know, safe for women, safe for women patrons, safe for all of us, you know? So, yeah, just those kind of, to Noam's credit, very open to it, very, you know, we have a great relationship as far as, I have no hesitancy to bring up anything to him. I really wonder what all this, what would, I really wonder what it would have been like if his father was still alive. If Manny was still around, if Noam's dad was around,

and this was happening with his intellectualization of politics. I wonder what it would have been like. You would know better than me because I wasn't there a whole lot during the Manny era. Yeah. I'm just curious. Because Noam seems like a bright guy and definitely a guy that will engage and weigh stuff yeah yeah sometimes to a fault like where i i think you know initially he was taking it from kind of strictly a free speech point of view right but uh you know this is more i think it's more complicated than that so but anyway yeah ultimately i kind of just wanted

to put that piece out um and he ultimately he said to you, what was the... I let him know about that as well. I didn't want him to be surprised. And once you got past the free speech defense, where did he land on it with you? Well, yeah, I think he kind of... And I'm sure it's like evolving day to day where he stands on it but uh i think at that point he said like you know i think uh we can put people on stage and the audience can choose to stay or leave or whatever and uh you know so i said well you know it's your it's your club and obviously

but i just felt compelled and and it's it's difficult because i think especially at the cellar or any club that you're in especially like depending on where you're at yeah you don't want to compromise that relationship right but i luckily don't feel as though i i'm in that territory with gnome that you know and i don't think i would care either way like i'm gonna say it regardless it's an interesting thing because this is a micro of sort of the the macro of what's happening you know politically you know in in in washington in general not that you know we're gonna sit here and say you know what wonderful men these republicans would be you know if uh if trump weren't there because they proved to be cowards and craving cowards but but what's a risk even on a on a macro level it is a comedy club is like i don't want to lose my job

yeah sure i don't want to have you know i don't want to be a pariah sure because you know i i'm you know speaking out but yeah it's always easier to to stay quiet right or not pick a side so you can kind of but not if you're a guy that talks about shit that's right that's right yeah and so yeah for me it was like um again i wanted to kind of since i was doing it on stage yeah i felt as though you know i'm not gonna save this for my next special or whatever i'm i'm gonna just put this out because it's relevant now with the kavanaugh stuff yeah i think cosby had just been convicted that day yeah so i was like you know this is kind of the time to um you know just put it out be part of that discussion and how did you put it out how did you choose i just put it on on

youtube oh oh that was it and then let it have its own life yeah yeah and just start like you know like i think like 10 different outlets wrote like little articles on it yeah and like um because like by by nature you i mean you do self-referential stuff and your comedy is not specifically political or you know it's like 50 50 you know yeah like the special that i'm putting out now is is like half of it is about my marriage uh at the time my upcoming but now you know yeah um and the other half is kind of socio-political talking about the world yeah politics and yeah so it's half and half now when it you know looking at the history of you you know in terms of your

involvement with uh you know getting you know a better pay for comics and and also uh your involvement with the occupy movement and this type of stuff and that you feel you have a heavy social conscience you know uh that i i think a lot of us do um but you know you seem to be you know you take action and i'm not saying on stage necessarily but you have this you know something needs to be done about this you know where did that come from that's a good question uh i may be from my parents a little bit um maybe just partially again who who i am yeah um but i think like when i'm really compelled by something you know it's not like a calculated thing uh yeah when i'm really compelled to think about a topic or to engage with as far as if it's going to make it into my act yeah i think for me it has to be funny i don't

want it to go into dogma or right for me like i i think it has to have comedic merit that i find a way to say it that's regardless of how you feel about the issue you can be like that's funny that's well done yeah um but in life as far as getting involved like with the the organizing with comedians for a pay raise or the occupy. It was more like stuff that I was, again, thinking a lot about, frustrated about, and just like found myself there, you know. It's not predetermined of like this is what I need to do. Well, yeah, but you're – Certainly wasn't career motivated.

No, right, but you're a guy that's like, you know, I'm there, I'm doing this. Where like a lot of us are sort of like, well, it's, you know, I'm with him. That guy's doing it, though. And then when you show up and go, will you sign this thing? Like, yeah, yeah, I'm glad you're out there doing it. There was a lot of that. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. Where do I sign? Yeah. Those are the two kinds of people. I'm glad someone's out there doing that. I'm behind them 100%, but I got things to do over here. Yeah. And I don't like, how long's the march going to take?

Right. How many steps? Yeah, where is it? What day? I don't know. My special is called Senior Class of Earth, because it does have this impending feeling of, like, where we could be the last ones.

Yeah. So the special deals a lot with those types of topics. Yeah. And again, more macro, not just like doing Trump jokes or whatever. Yeah, no, I've been doing it myself. Like I literally say, you know, yeah, the world is ending. And I know like, you know, when we were kids, you watch that scary science documentary and you ask your parents, is the world going to end? They're like, not for a million years. I'm like, I when we were kids you watch that scary science documentary

and you ask your parents is the world gonna end they're like not for a million years I'm like I think we're gonna see it I think I think we're gonna get in under the wire that's right that's right we're there yeah you know to be it's like getting the alerts on our phone yeah it's right yeah and we're all a little complicit I don't I didn't you know do we do all we could well yeah well that's the point right that's kind of like what you were just saying is like, and I don't blame any, see, I don't blame anyone for checking out. I really don't. Like, it is so heavy and we do have so much on our plates and depending on where you're at in your own life, you might just like, sometimes you just want to like close the curtains and, you know, just do your own thing. But I also think like on another level, like, you know, maybe it's a rationalization in the way I think about it, but there, there, you know, there is, there was always this assumed luxury afforded to us because we were Americans that, you know,

like this was a country where we could do what we wanted to do. And many of us did. So when it came to sort of like, you know, once people detached from their civic responsibility, you know, even if it's as simple as just voting, right. You know, then it was sort of like, well, you don't have an understanding of how the framework of this thing has to function. Yeah.

And now, like, everybody has an understanding, but it's completely tribalistic. You know, now it's like, oh, fuck. You're like, well, what have you been doing for the last 30 years? You know, they've been mobilized and chipping away at the state governments. And we've been, what, getting our core tighter and being mindful of ourselves and working on me? Being in the now. It is apathy, but I think it's sort of like,

it's still an American thing. Well, it's almost like with atheism, too. I can't brush people who don't vote with one brush. Because I'm sure there's very bright people who don't vote with one with right brush because i'm sure you know there's very bright people who don't vote there's you know so like you can brush them with me i mean what's it what's the analogy to atheism the analogy being that like the caricature of an atheist is that they're like you know um that they don't have some sort of moral core or they haven't thought it through they they don't have some moral center moral core or they haven't thought it through. They don't have some moral center.

Yeah. That they're- Or they're just- They're these godless- Right, right. Heathens or whatever. Right. When in fact, a lot of atheists

are just the most decent people you know. Sure. So people who don't vote, I think it runs the spectrum is what I'm saying. People who don't vote, you could have people that just don't take their civil responsibility seriously. That's right. And's right you could also have people that really think it through to the point where they're like i genuinely don't believe this matters well those people you can brush with

one stroke and they should vote yeah no i i would agree with you personally i would agree with you yeah you know the thing about like atheists is that they think the ones that don't get characterized that often are the people that, like, you know, I've said it on stage before. It's like, it's not that I don't believe in God. I just don't give a shit. Right. It's just not part of my brain. Like, I'm not craving it.

I don't feel an absence necessarily unless I buy into the spiritual dog dogma yes you know i'm not saying my life is perfect and you know i fill my god hole with you know caffeine and nicotine occasionally and whatever is necessary but do worse yeah but who called it a god hole anyways maybe that's just being a person being awake sure but uh but now we're getting uh intellectual about it but when you started so the team bit, and I hope you're not mad that I didn't watch the whole special. No, no, of course not. There's clips online for people that, yeah, there's a little taste of it.

Is this the first big special? Well, you know, it's interesting because I've put out three. This is the third. And I've self-produced all three of them. So I've kind of done this DIY thing. Yeah. But with this one, what came about

was a relationship with Bill Burr and Al Madrigal. They have a company, All Things Comedy, that up until now has primarily been a podcast network.

Right. But in talk... Now they've got the production deal. They're big time now. That's right. Yeah, yeah. I know.

I got a text from Al. It's like, well, Ted's in town. I'm like, wow, Al's a... He's the producer guy. Yes, yes. So yeah yeah so it was kind of like after i shot this you know i had put my own money into it shot it at the village underground the sellers second club and then was kind of wondering where am i gonna distribute this you know like i wanted it obviously to be seen by

more people right uh so just coinc I had a conversation with Al, and he said, we're starting to distribute specials. So for me, it was like comedian-owned company, you know, like supporting the artist directly. Yeah. You know, that whole thing, it all jibed with...

Your sensibility. Yeah. So when you started doing comedy, what was the team thing? The team thing was just, I think it was in that period of okay i'm not a jazz pianist i'm an education major uh what am i gonna i still want to be in the arts what what am i gonna do creatively so i was trying out for the plays that they had there

just started hanging out with the theater department at queen's college yeah met this guy hollis j. Really funny guy. He was putting up shows every semester, kind of SNL style. Yeah. Monty Python stuff. Sketch stuff. Sketch stuff. And showed him some stuff that I had written.

And he was like, yeah, this is really great. We're going to put this in the show. And that, for me, was the epiphany of, wow, he likes something I wrote and we put it up. Yeah. So that was like the spark of seeing the seed of writing and then putting it up. Yeah. You know, so that was like the spark of like seeing the seed of, you know, writing and then putting it up. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's like, hey, they're laughing at the thing I did. Yes. Yes. So then he and I just started to go to open mics around Brooklyn, Queens. With a bit. Yeah. A couple of sketches. Some sketches, yeah.

We actually got passed at the comic strip for like a second and third audition, but then didn't, we didn't. As a team. As a team. Because I started in a team too in college. Oh then we didn't. As a team. As a team. Because I started in a team too in college. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, Steve Brill, who's now a director, who I just saw recently.

We had put something together to audition for something, but then we went out and we did it a few times. So it didn't really stick. But it was really, it wasn't like a team, team thing. It was more like sketches. Like for the teams that do exist and they're rare, there's usually a dynamic. And they do sketch a little bit, but there's usually the goof. You know, there's a thing.

Yeah. You know, it's not always, like, I don't know, were you doing characters? I think the only thing we had was that he was shorter than me. Oh, yeah. That's a bit. That was our thing. Yeah. So it's good for five minutes.

Right, right. But it was, you know, it was a good yeah so it's good for five minutes right right but it was you know it was a good entree into the stand-up world yeah and uh i don't know about you but for me being in a team was like the drive home was just or the train ride home was just a cooler thing to talk about how sure sure that worked yeah yeah as opposed to just being on the train by yourself going fuck fuck. Yes. Looking at your notebook. What the fuck exactly happened with that? Yes.

And you know it's your fault because there's nobody sitting next to you. Yeah. And it's just like sad. And you're like, ugh. It's the worst, man. Oh, yeah. You remember when I get, like, I don't know, like, bad sets still fuck with me. Well, they should, right? Like, bad sets still fuck with me.

Well, they should, right? I feel at this point like a bad set is a gift because they're in the minority at this point, right? So if something goes wrong, it's like an opportunity because a good set you don't really give a second thought to, right? You don't think about it. You don't analyze it. But a bad set, you're like, whoa, what did I do there? Well, sometimes I know it's like I'm off off but i also know that audiences can be off but like you know but also it's just weird like because i've been starting to talk about certain things like i i don't have any problem you know attacking lately i you know i've got sort back into a sort of an older format that

i used to do where i'm just doing these sort of like operatic attacks on, you know, Republicans and Jesus and like, you know, but there's like I do a big, you know, end of the world scenario that involves Mike Pence. And like, you know, I'm thrilled about that. Yes. But then when I have to sort of personally approach as an older guy who's now in a shifting cultural awareness. Yeah. You know, what does that mean mean to me how is my mind changing right you know because you know i was an old school dude you know and you know there was a language to things and that's changing so i'm changing and i can feel it yeah so how do i

approach that right and you know you step into that like you must have felt that when you're talking about lou too with louis is like you know this is, you know, it's not just like, it's not a bit that you can detach from. It's like, you're all in. You're all in. And you're on it and you feel like,

you start to like, there was a couple of attempts I made at things and it's like, oh, it's not there yet. Right. And this is dicey shit

and you don't want to be misunderstood. Right, right. So that feeling of like, when you do a set and that doesn't work, you're like, I got, you know,

when we were younger, we might have bailed. That's right. But now you're sort of like, I got to figure it out. Got to figure that doesn't work, you're like, when we were younger, we might have bailed. That's right. But now you're sort of like, I got to figure it out. Got to figure it out. Yeah, you have to sit in that kind of not knowing. Own the mistake. Yep.

Because you mean it. It's like when you mean what you're saying, the audience knows it, right? Even if you're not landing everything, they know like, oh oh this guy's you know you feel it you feel an audience go like what's going yeah yeah but it demands more of you right like because after those sets yeah like it like i remember gary goldman saying to me after one of the sets uh he's like are you doing this like every every night he's like that's gotta

it's gotta be like exhausting i'm like i certain sets i don't do it just because if i had like two or three sets in the night it's like right and you can also feel the room it's sort of like i want to yeah do i want to fight for the next 10 minutes and the thing is like do i you have to assess do i have the energy to do this i just did it one time tonight or two times tonight i there's really no need to do it a third time because it's scary and it's depleting you know yeah yeah it's it it requires a level of concentration i guess i never think in those terms i just think sort of like do i have the courage this one you know like because like i know it's good i don't think in terms of depleting but i know i'm going to be in that insanely vibrant present. You know, like, you know, like it does require all of you.

I guess I don't think in terms of like, I'm exhausted. I just think in terms of like, do I have the fight in me, you know, to, to put the room back together if the bottom falls out. And what I'm saying is that I guess it's the same thing. It's the same thing. You have to assess that like from, from show to show, right? Because there's nothing wrong with doing a show where it's just fun for you and you're not... Because we have a lot of material, right? Well, that's the other thing.

That's the other thing is depending on who's been on, there's the idea of do I want to ruin the fun? Because there's a real chance that I'm going to ruin the fun for about a third of these people. That's right. And do I... Yeah. I apologize in advance. because there's a real chance that like i'm gonna ruin the fun for about a third of these people that's right and do i yeah i apologize in advance i'm gonna ruin some people's fun right now yeah but you know i'll pull it back after you know yeah well you know what's funny too is like the last few years i've been opening for jim gaffigan yeah so like wow and that's a pretty uh that's a pretty uh you know there it, it's a safe zone.

Well, yeah, no. Like, yeah, when I open for Jim, I do stuff that I would do probably for a TV set or, you know. Right. I mean, there's literally families there. There's for everything from kids to grandparents. Right. So, and I'm also opening for Jim.

And you know that. Did Jim lay it down for you? He's like, could you not? No, no. No, he pretty much says, you know, do what you want. But, you know, I'm aware of who his audience is and what his brand is. Yeah. So when you're opening for someone, you're aware of that.

But it's almost like this dual life now of like, you know, obviously I would never do any of the stuff that was like in that cellar clip. Yeah. When I'm opening for Jim or the political stuff. Right. So stuff that like, you know, delves into issues that could be polarizing so it is weird to have a foot in both to me like they're equally compelling things to explore but and i'm sure you you have to do i mean you've made you've made your decision you know it's not even a decision but what i'm saying is uh like there are people who see me when i open for gym

yeah that's great. And then if they see like something that's more political. We didn't think you were. That's right. Well, no, that happens to me because like now people either they know me from the podcast or they know me from glow, which means they don't know my comedy or they don't know my comedy at all or they've made assumptions about, you know, but I mean, anyone who knows me on some level knows that I can get political, but I had made a choice for years to sort

of keep the focus on me and run everything through me. Like, you know, what's going on with me in relation to this. And I think we all do that to a certain degree, but to sort of step outside of that and say like, this is what's happening.

So we have, can I, can I ask, cause that's interesting to me. Was that that, so that was a conscious decision. Cause that's something that like is on my mind too of like – It was about appearing self-righteous.

Okay. Because I had to own that. That if I'm coming on top, if I'm coming over them and I'm saying like, you don't understand. Right, right, right. Then that is not a human – I don't have that really. It's not really how I feel. that is not a human you know i don't have that really it's not really how i feel but sometimes in order to deliver that kind of stuff you want that distance which is somewhat condescending and a little self-righteous and i don't want to be that guy yes so like most of the time now

like outside of like larger sort of kind of like elaborate satirical attacks on you know the vice president and christianity right which i i still try to be diplomatic about sure by saying like well i don't believe this and i understand that some people do and whatever or i say like look i'm not i'm not saying i i don't i'm not part of this right i'm part of this yeah when i say we're all complicit i mean me i'm not being condescending right you know we all fucked up that's right right. So that's how I'm starting to accommodate, you know, what I think is our artistic responsibility, which is to address this shit. You can't, you know, for someone like me, I can't go on stage and not being the neurotic,

you know, kind of like aggravated person I am. I'm not going to detach from what's causing me a tremendous amount of anxiety and fear and try to address it from that point of view. Because I think most people are stifled and they do feel, everybody feels a little bit of shame somewhere in there. The people that are going like, fuck you, fuck you, their shame has turned into something else. They've allowed themselves to become monsters.

But those of us who just feel guilt for not doing enough or not knowing what to do or not being informed, I can understand that. So then I kind of play with that zone. But I was in Denver a couple weeks ago, and I realized a half hour in that I had basically depressed everybody in the room. I'd gotten to that point the room. Yeah, yeah. I'd gotten to that point where they're like,

well, this is not hopeful at all. Yes. And I'm like, oh. And then I had to, because I felt it. Yeah. It was a dig, but it was sort of like, okay, I know what I did. Yes.

Yes. We're all sad now, and I just made it, not worse, but I don't assume that you all came here to avoid everything, but I sort of like, you know, there's a difference between saying, we're fucked, but it's okay to acknowledge it. And maybe it'll be okay as opposed to just be, we're fucked. Yeah, yeah. And it's delicate. And yeah, it is delicate.

And I think that dynamic is present on so many things on stage in life yeah engagement versus detachment sure right am i going to engage with it and really mine it comedically or detach from it because maybe i don't have the energy or the audience like you said came to escape this yeah or depending on the gig, it's not appropriate. So yeah, there's so many like ways and it is ever present. Like getting back to that we just got this alert

on our phones. It's ever present. So you can't detach from it on some level. It's always there. But, you know, I think comedically

we do have the obligation, especially guys who this is what we talk about. Yeah, yeah like you have to figure out that way of making it entertaining and also i think people are afraid and i always address the fact that there may be people like i'll say like you know there may be you know trump

vote supporters in here but but then i'll say but i think at this point if you were apologizing or blindly supporting this guy you're probably a shitty person. Yeah. I mean, at some level, you're a little shitty. Well, I have a thing. Oh, here we go. Not to trade bits. On the special, I say, you know, a lot of people said, I wish my grandparents had lived to see Obama get elected as his first black president.

And, you know, I wish my grandparents had lived to see Trump get elected because they were racist and they would have been very excited about this. I'm not saying that everyone who voted for Trump is racist. I'm saying my grandparents were. Yeah, right. If you voted for Trump, you probably would have liked them. Yeah. Exactly. So it's like finding ways to say things. The most difficult part about it is you start to realize that, and I did it on my last special, that we do have more in common than we, 20, 30% of the people that are going to blindly follow him anywhere

without, you know, really kind of, you know, weighing his immorality or his pathology or what he's really doing to the government. And you just got to cut them loose. Yeah. And hope that they don't get violent or weird during your set. That's right.

That's right. Well, what's fascinating for us as stand-ups is I think we're kind of among the last spaces where these things are discussed publicly. We don't go into a room knowing those numbers. We don't have any analysis of who's in front of us. I mean, we might have some guests, like we do what we do right so it's one of the last spaces where ideas just go out into a room full of people but but that but but also it's weird is that that's become threatened by our own self-censorship and also by the the cultural reality that depending on what

your public profile is you know they can you know create a shit storm for you sure you know like you know if i was a more popular public figure and somebody you know recorded this pence bit i'm doing i would be fucking pummeled sure you know for a lot of different reasons but because i don't have you know that type of traction you know i'm not holding up the bloody head of donald trump right but but uh but it's interesting that we are afraid of not a a true sort of fascist um imperative which is like we will arrest people that do this but there there is, because of social media platforms. The minions will be sick. Sure.

There is a momentum that can be unleashed that is pretty terrifying. Sure. So we're up against that possibility. Yeah. But then there's the idea that you're a comic. What about the both sides thing? It's like, well, I can do that. But the other side is thing it's like well i can do that but but the other side

is what it is right you know i'm not saying that my politics are you know are deeper right in my stand-up but i can't assess you know what we're missing all of us yeah in this situation right yeah well and i also think that with the backlash, we also have the option of just not reading it. I don't have to read the comments section on YouTube. I don't have to read the comments in Twitter. I put work out that I'm proud of. I thought it through. So you don't read it?

No. For the most part, I really don't. Yeah, I tried it. Yeah, I don't. Even if there is the odd thing about you libtard, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. I just kind of scroll i don't like because yeah yeah that doesn't bother me i don't i don't want to know in a comedy

club i don't want to know what everyone thinks we're having this collective i don't need it's a collective i don't need to know what every person thinks they're experiencing it all very in that moment right yeah but it's a collective but then a hundred thousand other people can experience like now this guy shit on Louie. That's right, yeah. And they're just watching it at their computer. Maybe not even watching it. They're just reading the fucking headlines.

Exactly, yeah. It's a different thing. Yeah, but it's like cancer. It's like a very quick-spreading virus. I had an interesting moment with that with my producer where I retweeted something, and it got shit from both sides. And I said to him, I said,

it's a real fucking shitstorm on Twitter. twitter he's like he's like no it's not if not it's it's a shit storm if a reporter calls you right right yeah yeah and everything is so fleeting now that yeah even if it's a couple days of that oh wow people seem to be responding to this yeah everything so it's so weird that people are just like sharks, you know, consuming, you know, information. You know, they just sort of like swim away from self. You know what I mean? Yes. No moment.

Yeah. So, okay. So when you were out of the team, Lucian passed you? Lucian passed me. At the comic strip? At the strip. Yeah. Which was, that was a big deal.

That was probably the first, you know, because strip? At the strip, yeah, which was, that was a big deal. That was probably the first, you know, because at that time the strip was, maybe, I guess, maybe even, correct me if I'm wrong,

might have been even a little ahead of the Cellar at that point as like an iconic, because the Cellar kind of came. Cellar was always its own world.

Yeah. The strip was an old timey club that, you know, like a lot of people started in, but it's sort of like there was a lot of comics

there at a certain point where they were all working, but a lot of them were, you know, but it's sort of like, there was a lot of comics there at a certain point where they were all working, but a lot of them were, you know, like it was sort of, um, it became sort of a regional thing.

I think that like, you know, I didn't go up there much. He passed me, but I, I, I, for me,

it always becomes like, and then I got to go up there and then come back, you know, but in like, you know, stand up New York, same thing. I was like,

I can't, I just can't. All the way uptown. Right. Right. But I mean, I did all of them at some point, but the strip had a different type of audience. It was definitely, I think't, I just can't. All the way uptown. Right, right. But I mean, I did all of them at some point. But the strip had a different type of audience.

It was definitely, I think, you know, the seller was always sort of international and local. And the strip was kind of bridge and tunnel-y. And then the stand-up New York was, you know, weird contest people. Yeah. They were there to see for the funniest plumber thing. Yeah. It was an audience thing. But yeah, yeah.

The strip for me was like the first kind of stamp of approval of feeling like, oh, I'm a New York comic now. Right. Then there was Dangerfields. I'm like, I've never set foot in that place. I did probably if you were 10. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

Those nights. Remember when all the clubs in New York did like prom shows? So you had those prom shows. Like there's a prom show at 5 p.m. I'm like, I can't. I'm not doing that. Yeah. And you just walk in and be like a whole bunch of kids and there's tuxes from the same fucking school yeah it was a fucking night 5 p.m or 2 a.m right right and that was run all night worst yeah yeah you want to do prom shows no do you want to do new year's

not really i don't know why wait what is it that much money? Are you going to pay me a million dollars to do the 1130 on New Year's? I'm not doing it. Yeah, for 17-year-olds? Yeah, I can't do it. But so you just kind of, you know, jumped through the hoops. You did the thing. Yeah, you got it, right? Yeah.

And things that initially, like I remember the first time I got asked to do a prom show, like you're excited because you hear about them and you're like, oh. Yeah, and they pay. They pay a couple hundred bucks. That's right. They pay more. Yeah. So, so yeah all those things that you kind of take as a little badge of honor like yeah i did that i did that yeah yeah but yeah i don't need to do it again no there's one thing you learned oh i used to dread the palm shows because

i was always sort of aggravated angry hyper political back in the day it's sort of like what am i gonna do like it took me a while to realize like i'm not for them that's right you know it's like vegas do you ever go to Vegas? No, really. I don't love Vegas, and, you know, I don't. Well, that's the thing that I think you get better at as a comic is realizing anything that you say yes to, you don't have to say yes to it a second time. Yeah, right. Like, Vegas was that for me. Like, I did it a lot.

For years, I would do, like, the Riviera or whatever. But then you realize, like, oh, I don't like this. You know, I don't like being here for a week, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Eating and like, remember, did you ever do the catch out in Princeton? Yes. Where you'd have to, you'd go downstairs and eat in the employee's, you know, kitchen.

Yes. And the first time you go, it's like, this is pretty good. They got a little buffet. And then you're like, this is bad. This is awful. I can't do this. Where they had the fish swimming out front in front of the club. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. And that weird atrium. Yes. Yes. Oh,'t do this. Where they had the fish swimming out front in front of the club. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. And that weird atrium. Yes. Yes. Oh, man. Yeah. Good times.

Good times. But then there were good clubs. But so you like, it was weird that, you know, you worked, like I always saw you as like a Queens guy, New York guy, you know, and I never really saw you out here, but you know, you did all the things. You did Letterman when he was there. You did like, and all that started happening. Yeah, it's funny, you know, because some people, especially of late, like with the special coming out, you know, being more visible.

People say, like, I haven't heard of you or the clip that came out. Like, why haven't I heard of you? I was like, well, if I have been hiding, it's been on Letterman, on Conan. Well, that's the weirdest thing. It's like, I've learned you've got to look at that as a good thing. Yeah, of course. Because, like, you know, it just means you're still discoverable. I mean, I still, at this point, almost 10 years in, or nine years and change, Roy, nine

years in with the podcast, you know, I still see people going like, I just found Mark Maron's podcast. It's like, what do we expect? Look, if you're not fucking Kanye. Right. Right. Right. Or Kevin Hart. Sure. people going like i just found mark maron's podcast it's like what do we expect look if you're not fucking kanye right right right or or kevin hart sure you know you're it's like you know you're the how do people watch anything that's right you know like that's the weird thing is like you think like i put all this stuff out there for years you're sort of like i can't do that because like i've already done it i did it you know four years ago on conan it's like no one saw it dude nobody saw it right dude. Nobody saw it, right?

You know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe your fans did, but that's the other thing, is that you don't want to disappoint the people that have been with you by doing old material or whatever. Sure. So for the four people that are like, I saw that bit, and I'm like, all right. Yes. What do you want from me? Yeah.

Everybody loves Freebird. Leave me alone. Yes. Can you be patient while the others catch on to it? Or enjoy it again. Yes. How about that? Comedy's comedy's not quite like that though because they know what's coming and it's not like music where you're like i can just sway and i can't remember what it was like when i was a kid you know but i want i don't know if that's necessarily true if it's a longer piece like the one you're describing um i think like there is there is something something to, to seeing it again live.

Sure. You know, no, no, I think that's true. You know, like, because people are too quick to say like,

oh no, there's the element of surprises. Some people get disappointed. I was in Denver. I'm doing these hour and a half sets that are all new shit. And then there's some lady going like, what about the kitten? I know I did a cat bit and I'm like,

really? We got to, and the weird thing is sometimes I don't even remember bits that are even a year old like once I when I shelve it it's sort of like I gotta

you know drop the needle in yes and hopefully it'll pick up my wife says that to me all the time she has like a really like photographic memory

she'll be like why don't you do that bit about this anymore I'm like I I totally I don't even know if I remember that that's right

you know it's weird right yeah and then some bits on like some of my specials I did it twice yes like because I always leave room in my specials to like have a little kind of like you know it's weird right yeah and then some bits on like some of my specials i did it twice yeah like because i always leave room in my specials to like have a little kind of like you know throw something in there yes and then it like even if it works i'm like oh yeah i think

that was the only time i did that bit yeah yeah you know i did conan recently and uh i threw in a line that i'd never done before and yeah there was something cool about like in that moment where it's supposed to be like locked to like just leave in that little space to be scared, you know?

And even in stand-up shows, sometimes I'll walk off of doing an hour plus and the only thing that hung with me is that like I did that one thing that was the best moment

and I don't think it'll ever happen again. Yes. It's like, I can't add it in. It was something that happened there. Yeah.

And it's, that's it. Right. And that's supposed. Yeah. And it said, that's it. Right. And that's supposed to be, that's like the beauty of it. But then there's parts where it's like, I wish I could fix it and make that happen every time. Right. Well, I think it gets back to what we're saying about that requires a level of, you also have to do some work prior to getting on stage, I think, for me anyway, with certain parts of those. Sometimes they'll happen organically in the moment.

And then, great, you know. But there has, to me, there has to be the work put in prior, which for me is like maybe just sitting, writing, almost journaling, so that the stuff is germinating. Right. And it's not hatched yet. Right. Maybe it's not even comedic yet. Right, exactly. That's what I do.

You look at my notebooks, there's not one funny thing in there. Right. Right. Yeah. That's what I do. You look at my notebooks, there's not one funny thing in there. Right, right. Yeah, for sure. Just these weird ideas and sayings and observations. But that's, I think, the act of writing it, even if you never look at it occasionally. I agree. It's how your brain works. And at least you have some physical evidence of the thought process, because you might not get that back.

Yeah. You know what I mean? You made it real. It went from, yeah, just dancing around in your head to it's on paper. Yeah. And it's usually part of a larger idea that you might not have had yet. But if you can re-spark it by making a note and be like, oh, yeah, that's still sort of in there doing something.

How am I going to get that out? So I met your wife. I didn't know you'd have a wife. There's a new thing. Yeah, yeah. We're married about a year now. And so I know it's weird. You're just one of the New York guys that I never knew a lot about.

I assume that you led an ascetic life, like a monk of some kind, where you're just in an apartment, perhaps meditating or thinking about how you can help the world. But no, it seems like you have a very nice wife, and you seem happy, and you live in a regular life. How'd you meet her? I think my monastic years have been rewarded. I put in my time. have been rewarded. Yes. You know, I put in my time. Yeah, you're not far off.

I was kind of, I was, I think, wholly committed to the comedic life. So I wasn't in a whole lot of like long-term relationships, you know. It kind of wasn't on my radar of like, I was just so, yeah, I was focused on comedy. I met Madeline like 10 years ago. Wow. And yeah, kind of fell in love back then and we dated yeah we dated for a year and a half two years 10 years ago yeah but she was uh like in college you know so a friend had the same friend that i mentioned earlier hollis entered who i

started comedy with he introduced us yeah you know i met this girl i think you would hit it off with and we did we hit it off immediately dated but she was young so then 10 years went by you know she broke it off with me and i was kind of like heartbroken for a while but then moved on dated other people 10 years went by and uh she reached out to me a few years back and uh said she was back in new york she had lived uh in la puerto rico she'd been around she was was in Italy for a while. So yeah, we just kind of picked right up and it was like this amazing thing of like 10 years went by, but it might as well have been a minute and still loved her and we just picked up and yeah, it's just a great thing. That's great. What's the age difference? 18 years. 17, yeah. It was a little 17 and a half. difference 18 years 17 yeah it was a little 17 and a half i i'm at 15 but i think once you get in your 50s and they're approaching 40 it's like that's okay it's not it's not the same as yeah

yeah like 40 and 20 she's a woman yeah yeah exactly you know well congratulations on the special on the marriage and you know you seem great thanks buddy congratulations to you as well i told you how happy i am oh thank. Oh, thank you. That's very nice. Good seeing you, man. You too, pal. All right. That was great. I love Ted.

Great guy. Funny guy. His special Senior Class of Earth available through all things comedy. Go to ATCspecials.com to buy or rent it. And don't forget, it's 30% off all merch at podswag.com. Just enter WTF at checkout. Dig it. I'm just going to play three chords over and over again now with some effects. guitar solo Thank you. Boomer lives! So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

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