WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 986 - Linda Cardellini

Episode Date: January 17, 2019

For Linda Cardellini, a person whose spiritual crisis took her all the way to the Vatican, it's appropriate that the pivotal moment in her career happened when she took a leap of faith on a little TV pilot called Freaks and Geeks. Linda and Marc talk about that seminal show, the initial failure of which was hard to accept, along with the other projects that make her so recognizable to audiences, like ER, Mad Men and the new movie Green Book. They also try to figure out why Linda is still so hard on herself and why she avoids a lot of trappings of celebrity. This episode is sponsored by Black Monday on Showtime, Deadly Class on SYFY, and Stamps.com. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. How's it going? What's happening? Everything okay? You all right? I'm all right, I guess. I don't think my cap buster likes me.

but I don't know if you've had that experience where you have a pet and then a friend of yours comes over and they they seem to want to go home with them and I can't resent the guy I can't resent the cat I cannot resent Buster Kitten he's an odd cat he's he fetches things he thinks sometimes he looks like a human in the face but uh you know I do everything I can for the guy but he's sort of like he'll he'll hang out with me when i'm doing things but when i'm not it just you know i think he likes other people better than me and uh what do i do about that right do i keep trying i mean how much like i'm feed this cat like better than some humans eat you know maybe that's it maybe it. Maybe we got to toughen up a little bit. Or maybe it's just, I don't know, he's used to me.

You know, we have a certain thing we do, and then when other people come over, he loves them, and they go away. You know what I just realized? It's exactly like me. The cat is exactly like me. Today on the show, I talked to Linda Cardellini, who is in the new film Green Book. You might have known her.

You remember her from Freaks and Geeks. She had a part in Mad Men. She's done a lot of ER. She's done a lot of things. She's a very, very fine actress. And I had an opportunity to talk to her, so I took it and I dug it. And you'll hear that in a few minutes. I promise you.

That's going to happen for you. You're going to hear me and Linda Cardellini talking. Let's read a couple emails. I got a good one. I thought it was a good one because this guy is very attentive. There was something about, I like this email. Subject line, hands down the funniest moment. Hey Mark, been listening since God knows when at 220, I think. A few thoughts. That's episode 220. One, some of us are fans of the superhero movies because we grew up on comics and never thought we'd see them on screen as dynamic as they are and are meant to be. An old crusty bartender I know saw the very first Spider-Man when it came out and he muttered, I've been waiting for that movie since I was five. Anyway, I fucking love

him. Okay, pal. Noted. I get it. That makes sense to me. I respect that. Two, Michael Clayton is one of the finest films ever to grace a screen. I love when you talk about it. Die Hard is on at the theater every Christmas, but I'd go see Michael Clayton on the big screen for multiple viewings. Quote, I'm not the enemy. Then who are you? Unquote. It's a couplet from Michael Clayton on the big screen for multiple viewings. Quote, I'm not the enemy. Then who are you? Unquote. It's a couplet from Michael Clayton, by the way. Three, this is the meat of it.

Your talk with Howie was fantastic. You run the gamut with guests and the interviews always shine. That snappy patois that surfaces when you have a comic on is golden. I've got a pretty good job and i work in construction with contractors sometimes i'm at the job site out in the rain and they joke must be nice to cruise around and chill in an office i usually respond this is the job i chose you have the job you chose and here we are my shit ain't without its hang-ups bullshit last minute changes and putting out fires sometimes the whole company seems like a rudderless ship with no one at the helm when you guys were talking about bombing

and how he's all quote nobody knows unquote and you said because you can't leave it brought tears of laughter to my eyes i rewound it at least 15 times hands down the funniest thing i've heard on your wonderful show the pain in that moment about those moments coupled with the knowledge that this is what you signed on for the love you have for your craft even what might be the worst part about it is just something you deal with i imagine it's not even a clause or a fine print for a comic it's ironclad guaranteed that at some point this is gonna happen soldier on thanks for the show man you are a constant source of laughter inspiration and wisdom keep up the phenomenal work boomer lives sincerely anthony that that to me because

he picked up on that moment you know when we're talking about bombing and how he's talking about no one really understands it but then he brought up his own life it's just and i never really thought about it either it made me reflect on you know when you're younger in comedy or whatever you do i mean the worst fucking thing that can happen is the shit doesn't go over and when you're, you're only doing it for five minutes, three minutes. And it's an eternity. And then all of a sudden, as life goes on and you stack up these experiences where it gets as bad as it's going to get in terms of occupational problems in this particular field or whatever fields you're working in, you know, if you've been doing something for a decade or more, you know, you're you're going to have a pretty good resume of things getting fucked up, of things going really wrong, of things like teetering on the edge of complete chaos and failure or quitting or losing your job. And after you get a bunch of them and they get a little behind you, you're like, nah.

Yeah, it wasn't great when that happened, but it's a long time ago. Fuck it. I don't give a fuck. Nothing fucking matters. Nothing nothing is true everything is permitted where did that come from hassan isaba let's do a little business i should have done this at the beginning but i'm doing it now i'm going to do sort of a residency at the dynasty typewriter that's a space down uh sort of downtown Koreatown here in Los Angeles. There's going to be a series of dates through February and the beginning of

March, Sundays. I'll be doing a workshopping an hour or two, trying to work some stuff out. They're usually fun shows. I'll bring feature acts with me of all different sorts. Hopefully, I got to ask some people, but you can go to WTFpod.com slash tour to get the links for the tickets to all those shows. I believe there's five of them coming up. The first one is this Sunday, January 20th. So that's happening. If you live in Los Angeles, you're going to be in town. Come see me one of those Sundays at Dynasty Typewriter. It's a nice little space.

So this is me talking to a Linda Cardellini. She can be seen in Green Book, which is in theaters now, and she's in the upcoming Netflix comedy series, Dead to Me. And I'm sure a lot of you fell in love with her on Freaks and Geek. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. you fell in love with her on Freaks and Geek. you need insurance. Don't let the I'm too small for this mindset hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance, mind your business. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling

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T's and C's apply. You told me you've never talked for an hour. I talked for an hour once before. In public? In public, yeah. And why? What happened? Was it a bad hour?

No, it was great. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it was great. So it worked out? Yeah, it worked out. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it was great. So it worked out? Yeah, it worked out. But you grew up in California? Yes, Northern California. That's the best.

Yeah. Where'd you grow up? Around San Francisco, like 30 minutes south. What was your family doing up there? My family's been in San Francisco for generations. For generations? The Cardellinis of San Francisco? Yeah, I mean, well, they were different names. Yeah, but seriously. My father's grandmother

was born there. Uh-huh. And so my great-grandmother, my grandmother, my father, my sister, her son have all been born

in San Francisco. In San Francisco? And then on my mom's side, it's one generation less. Yeah. So they've been there forever? They've been there for a long time. But where did they come from originally?

Like New York? No. No. They all checked in at Ellis Island. I mean, according? No. No. They all like checked in at Ellis Island and I mean, according to family lore. Yeah. They all checked in at Ellis Island

and kept going. From Italy? My dad's side from Italy, my mom's side from Ireland. Some other pieces of the puzzle I think came from Germany. But Irish, Italian.

Yeah. Full on Catholic, genetically Catholic. Yes. For hundreds of years. Yes. Yes. Lots of children, big families. Yeah. Have-on Catholic, genetically Catholic. Yes. For hundreds of years. Yes. Yes. Lots of children, big families.

Yeah. Have you visited those places? I've been to Italy. I've never been to Ireland. Ireland's beautiful. I know. I'm dying to go. I really would love to go.

I was just there. I've only been to Dublin, though, and Kilkenny. But it's beautiful. That's more than I've got. Yeah, I know. But where'd you go in Italy? I've been, well, the first time I went there, I played soccer there. I played a lot of soccer when I was a kid.

Really? You're a little jockey. Yeah, I went to different countries playing soccer. Was it because you were great at it or because it was just a high school thing? I was good enough. Yeah. And there was a team that was going and I could go and we were young. So you played against the Italians?

So the first time I went, I went to Denmark and Holland. And the second, and we stayed with families when I was 13. Yeah. And the second time I went, I went to Italy, Austria, France the second, and we stayed with families when I was 13. Yeah. And the second time I went, I went to Italy, Austria, France, and Germany. Oh, man. And so I went to Verona. And we got our, you know, we got our asses handed to us, but we had a great time.

But, so that was the first time I went. I did a play, I've done a play there in Italy. As a grown up? As a college student, yeah. Uh-huh, weird. And, which I was leaving to do right after Freaks and Geeks. And I was like, why would you go do some ancient play? What was the ancient play?

It was a version of Lancelot. Uh-huh. But it was like- You're saying it like a question. You know, because now, I mean, I have an interesting memory. It's sort of like I can hold on to things for a short period of time, but my long-term is a little bit, and it doesn't matter how important it is to me.

I'm sort of the opposite. Yeah. Oh, really? No. No matter what. Everyone's like, well, that's because it's not so important to you,

and it's absolutely not true. It's just gone. Yeah, it goes somewhere else. Yeah. But my short-term works well, so I can always cram. Get through the day. I can memorize my lines.

Breathe. Read a book, and then read it again a year later. Lancelot. Lancelot, yes. But it was like one of the first non-secular plays and it was being performed with this medieval play festival. And so this teacher of ours took us and we went and did that.

So I remember that's after the pilot of Freaks and Geeks. That's what I went to. You went to it. Well, you didn't have a huge career in show businesseks. That's what I, I went to it and did that. Well, you, I, you didn't have a huge career in show business yet, so you can just go.

I mean, I've been trying. Freaks and Geeks wasn't my first show. People always think it was, but. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions about growing up in San Francisco. Did any of your family actually live in the city of SF,

San Francisco itself? Uh, when I was growing up? Yeah. Yeah. But they sort of, they started there and then kind of spread. Yeah.

I mean, my brother moved there and, you know, people always lived, you know, did you like go when you was growing up, no. Yeah, but they sort of, they started there and then kind of spread out? Yeah, I mean, my brother moved there and, you know, people always lived, you know. Did you like go, when you were growing up, is that where you used to hang out? Like go to San Francisco sometimes? Oh, we would go there all the time. Yeah. It's great, right? Yeah, my birthday party there or what, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

But it wasn't, it was more of like an adventure. Yeah. You sort of had a more suburban life. Right. Yeah, because it's like such a freak show, San Francisco. I lived there for a couple of years and I was like, what is going on here? Where did you live? I lived in the Mission. Yeah, because it's like such a freak show, San Francisco. I lived there for a couple of years and I was like, what is going on here? Where did you live? I lived in the Mission for a year on South Van Ness.

That's where my grandmother grew up. Really? On the Mission, yeah. Yeah, see, I never got a, and then I moved to the Panhandle, like Clayton and fell. But when I got there, I could never, like I've lived in New York, I've lived here, I could never quite get a handle on how that city was sort of put together like who's in charge what what's the history of it just seemed like this uh like uh uh like a circus like it was just embraced freaks of all kinds for generations yeah it's uh it's it's great yes it is it's rich yeah i guess when you get into it

it's very creative too. Like over time in history and even like back in the 60s to now with Silicon Valley, there's a lot of creative energy that happens there. That's right. The creative energy now is very much more profit oriented.

But it didn't maybe perhaps start that way. I don't know. The Silicon Valley thing. Subversion, some kind of like. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe the original computer nerds. I don't know. But you Valley thing. A version? Some kind of like. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe the original computer nerds. I don't know. But, you know, it's different, though.

Have you been there lately? Yes. It's like, I mean, it's completely, the mission is, it's like, there's no grit to it. Maybe one corner, like on, where's that, Mission and 16th at that BART station is still nuts. Well, I feel like in some ways, you know, change is always going to come. Sure. But I think that that, it's a difficult change because in one hand, there's progress and there's like, you know, things that get changed for the better. And on the other hand, the thing that I've seen the most is it drives the generations out.

Like where I grew up, it was like grandmothers and aunts and uncles and parents. And it was a place where families went to raise their children. You know, they maybe moved from San Francisco because it was warmer. Right. And you were able to like, you know, wear a bathing suit in the summer and swim. It wasn't foggy and cold. And you were able to grow up with your grandmother around the corner. You were able to grow up with your grandmother around the corner and your grandmother had

their friends. And then I think what I've seen, because it's happened to areas that I've lived in where sort of this new tech money comes in and industry comes in. And I think what happens is the generations get moved out because suddenly this house that you bought for $30,000 20 years ago is now worth a million or above. Yeah. 20 years ago is now worth a million or above. Yeah. And you can have a different sort of lifestyle. Sure. But you're moved out of the neighborhood.

Right. So then in the neighborhood is younger, more sort of. Yeah, no history. Moneyed. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like a different feel to the neighborhood. Yeah. Or in the event of like some of my friends, their parents have houses, but when they have

grown up and have a normal job, they can no longer afford to live near their parents right so then they have to move sort of two hours away and and so it's it's it's um that's what it does to where your folks in northern california but not in the same neighborhood they moved a couple hours away but that's not too far and you got a kid now right i do yeah so they have a good relationship with the grandparents yeah yeah and and then my my daughter's father and I have known each other since we were kids. So his folks are up there too? So his folks, but everybody's moved sort of hours away. Oh, right.

So they're a couple hours from each other. Oh. But everybody's still up there. Our friends are still up there. It's so pretty up there. It is. It's beautiful. So how Catholic were you brought up?

Very. Really? I mean, we didn't go to church every weekend, but my parents were brought up Catholic. Yeah. And they were told you had to go to church every weekend, but my parents were brought up Catholic. Yeah. And they were told you had to go to confession every week. Did you go? I went, well, I went when I was little because my mom was like, you should go to confession every week.

And I was very young. Yeah. And I was the youngest of four. Yeah. But my parents were protective. Right, right, right. And I went to confession. It was a really old Irish priest.

And I didn't, you know, I was scared. I was like, bless me scared like bless me father i have sinned and i was going to say like one sin they said you could save up one and then go sell it so i said you know i missed mass and he yelled at me no because he was you know kind of an old cranky yeah irish yeah you know and he yelled at me and i was hysterically crying and And I came out of there and he said, why didn't you go to church? Do you have a bike? And I said, yeah, I have a bike. I got one last Christmas or whatever it was. He's like, you should ride your bike to that. Oh, my God.

I came out of there and I was hysterically crying. My mom felt terrible, terrible about it. The old man scared you. Yeah. And I was like, I'm never going again. You know, I was a very sensitive child, of course. Right. I mean, obviously, I'm still a very sensitive adult, too.

And I didn't really even have any sins. Right. But that scared you away forever? Scared me away. And so here's the thing. This is a funny story, actually. So then my mom, one of my good friends, her mom was always like the most wonderful person. She always had everybody to her house.

And if there was a new priest, she would invite them in and feed them because priests like to be fed and runs you know that's part of the racket yeah and they had a swimming pool so everybody always went to their house your parents my friend genie oh you're genie okay and so her mom had the new priest over which was like this young irish priest who everybody liked he was funny and he was fun and everybody was swimming. Yeah. And unbeknownst to me, my mom had told that I had been scared away from confession. She told the young new priest.

Yes. But I didn't know that. So I was swimming. Everybody was swimming in the pool. It was a pool party. Yeah. And he swam up to me. And I remember thinking like,

oh my God, here's like, I saw a priest in shorts. Yeah. And he swam up to me. And I remember thinking like, oh, my God, here's like I saw a priest in shorts. Yeah. With no shirt on, which was, you know, normally you saw them in their whole garb. And I was like, this is odd. And I remember just clocking that he had. And I was, you know, I was like 11. And there was nothing lascivious about it at all. He was a very wonderful, kind human.

There was nothing like it was not that dirty. No, nothing at all. Because when you say that and then you say the priest, people get scared. But, and he came up to me and he had a very earnest talk with me. He's like,

your mother said that you are scared of going to confession and that somebody yelled at you and, you know, and he gave this whole explanation of how like, that's not really how it is if I ever wanted to talk.

And the whole time, all I could think of was that you had hair on his nipples. You know what I mean? Because I'd never seen a priest with his shirt off, which as a kid, you're thinking like they're different than you somehow. And like, I don't know. I was prepubescent.

And he was very kind when I came home. I was like, how could you do that? But she was trying to help me. That was the first time you saw hair on nipples? I mean, probably not. Like my dad or something. But you registered it because but i'm a priest sure yeah it's weird to see people who aren't supposed to be half dressed

half dressed right which is the funny thing about swimming yeah it's like suddenly it's totally okay yeah i mean it should be okay but it is odd yeah especially if it's it should be okay absolutely of course so uh all right so you didn't stick though the catholicism uh no not in that way no and you have how big is your family uh my mom is one of seven wow and they all have a lot of children yeah and so i had at one point i mean people have passed away now and you know whatever but i had at one point like over 20 first 20 around 21st cousin 21 yeah and they were all in the area yeah that's wild yeah so that's nice and my Irish side is much bigger than my Italian side really yeah that's your dad's side yeah my dad's

side's Italian Italian so your mom's side's the Irish yeah uh-huh like what like where like that's bigger yeah and they stayed together they still yeah very very close yeah I mean now people have moved away but up and until I was a full-grown adult, nobody had really necessarily—I had one cousin who moved away. Right, but your folks are still together? Yeah, they met when they were seven. They lived around the corner from each other. They started dating when they were in high school, and they have been together ever since. Wow.

My sister, the same thing. Like, she buried her neighbor, and they were together. And then you did it. Yeah, he wasn't my— he was the neighbor of two of my very close friends but he was around he was around yeah and you ended up together after but how did that happen after so many years because you were not always together no no no no um we were always friends oh never not friends but not like best friends sure never not friends and then he was working he lived in la and worked in la and show business kind of peripherally he does makeup but it wasn't necessarily on set right you know and uh

where else do you make you know he was always like fun yeah he always had fun so i was like hey you're here we ran into each other and i was like do my makeup sometimes and you know so we would do it and we would hang out we we would go home for holidays, drive in the same car. And then you just realized, oh, we love each other? Yeah. Yeah. It's like sort of like once you cross a line with a person in that way,

there's so much history there that you're like, oh. And there's something really interesting about it because it's somebody who knows you, especially when you come to Los Angeles where everybody sort of comes for industry. Knows you from before. interesting about it because it's somebody who knows you especially when you come to los angeles where everybody sort of comes for industry knows you from before yeah and somebody who knows me from before knows my family i know his family are my aunt was friends with his mom oh and they were kids have all that and um yeah my aunt used to tell the story about this uh this boy she knew

who got killed in vietnam was her first friend that got killed in vietnam and when i went to the to the memorial when i was a kid in eighth grade, she said, could you scratch this name off for me? And it turns out that that's Steve's uncle. Oh, really? Yeah. So it was her friend. And we didn't even put it together until much later. You went to the wall?

When I was a kid in eighth grade, we went to the Washington, D.C. Memorial. It's heavy, right? Yeah. I've been there a couple times. Beautiful. It's really something. Yeah. Because it just sort of sneaks up on you.

You're like, where is it? And then it's like, oh, there it is. And it's really something yeah because it just sort of sneaks up on you you're like where is it and then it's like oh there yes and you kind of quiet down yeah over there and you inevitably see somebody who you know is there yeah feeling it and oh always oh it's like it's i just yeah it's devastating i just read some story about springsteen or like uh he's been like some story i just read about springsteen has been talking about a guy who was in a band when he was a kid in asbury park who was the first guy who really impressed him as a singer and he ended up he's a local kid went to vietnam and was you know killed and he's it was just a story about him bringing it up on stage and one of that guy's kids you know heard about it and him and bruce connected and he took you know and he was able

to get stories about his dad because his dad got killed when he was just a baby but he was able to get you know bruce tell him about his old man and stuff it was kind of sweet yeah yeah it's heavy man yeah so where's so young too like it takes you to be sort of beyond that age to realize how young 18 is to be sent there and to that that fucking and everywhere i mean nowadays and back then but then you didn't have a choice no you know and like did you watch that ken bernstock you got about 20 hours no you should watch it that sounds sounds like maybe i should the vietnam war why terrible well no there's just so much i didn't know about it you know like you kind of know about it but like really the the whole history of it we don't have to talk about vietnam yeah i don't know about it. You kind of know about it, but really the whole history of it.

We don't have to talk about Vietnam. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know enough about it to really talk about it. Well, I didn't either. And then I watched Ken Burns talk. Well, now you know everything. Yeah, I think I know everything. But my short-term memory is not great. My long-term is better.

So I didn't retain a lot. You were a nice pair. Oh, you didn't tell me how many brothers and sisters you have. I'm the youngest of four. Oh, okay. What did they all end up doing? Oh, you didn't tell me how many brothers and sisters you have. I'm the youngest of four.

Oh, okay. What'd they all end up doing? My sisters, I'm the youngest by far. My sister's 13 years older than me. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm closer in age to her son than she is, but we were always in the house together. Were you in an accident? That, you know, somebody once said that to me, and my parents were like, that's not true.

Because my brother and sister, my oldest brother and my sister my parents were like that's not true because my brother and sister my oldest brother and my sister they were like Irish twins and I think my parents were like well we're going to just take it easy now and space these kids out. Yeah.

But yeah. No. They said you're not an accident. Why would they tell you you were? I know. Yeah. But you know it's like

13 years. It's pretty. Yeah. It's bad. They started young though. But you're a happy accident.- 13 years. It's pretty. Yeah. It's bad. They started young though. But you're a happy accident. That's good. Maybe you're not.

I'm pretty. I think I'm, I don't know. You're doing good. I think they like me. Yeah. But I started acting when I was a kid. I liked it. I wanted to do it.

I always was performing in like- Elementary school kind of stuff? Front room. But you know what? They didn't let me though. Like you had to be like picked to do a part. Were you a Catholic school person? Mm-hmm.

Then I went to Catholic high school. Then I went to Catholic college. Which Catholic college? Loyola Marymount in Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But you got a good education, right? I did.

I did. The Jesuits, they're pretty good thinkers and educators. Did you ever sort of have to wrestle with telling them? I mean, if you didn't stay Catholics other than in sort of like have to wrestle with telling them? I mean, if you didn't stay Catholics other than in sort of tradition, did you have belief? I did for a long time. I had ultra belief, I think, when I was young. I think I was very, I believed wholeheartedly. I was,

I, I believed wholeheartedly. Yeah. And then when I realized that some of those things were allegory or, you know what I mean? Or, or parable or what? Then I was like, sort of exploded my mind.

Maybe none of it's true. Right. So I had that moment. Yeah. And then I studied world, you know, the good thing about going to Jesuit schools. Yeah.

Um, you study other religions. And then I started to see the commonality in other religions and appreciate the commonality in other religions and belief. And I think that, you know, if I were to go back to school, I would love to study that further. I think it's really beautiful what motivates people. The threads of belief.

Yeah. And, and so, yeah, so I sort of, it sort of broke apart like that for me. Yeah. Did you ever have to sit down with a Jesuit and go like, I'm having a spiritual crisis? Yes. Funny enough, it was a long time that I was having sort of a spiritual crisis. You felt bad about it? Yeah, sure.

Sure. I think when I wholeheartedly was into it, I think it was easier. Right. When did it start to crumble? College? No, no. Way before oh yeah way before but you know i was used to sort of like the the i think in early high school yeah you know right right but i wasn't mad at it right you know i was i was like oh okay there are other things yeah not everybody is wrong right right and if you really believe like in the idea of of who the person is at the center of the religion,

it was about not judging people and loving your neighbor and all of that. So I sort of, and then I went to, I believe in everything. I believe in nothing. I don't know what I believe in. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I still don't.

I don't know. But when you talk to a Jesuit, how do they frame you? So the first time I ever went to the Vatican. Oh, you went to that i went to the vatican this was long after i had had the crisis but i thought well if i'm gonna go to the vatican i'm gonna go to confession because i have confession there and i'm gonna say i'm having a crisis of faith i used to really believe and i don't really believe it how old are you when this happened this was i was older i was like you know like i think I was in college at this point. But I was like, I still, you know, still felt like, oh, maybe somebody will say something.

Yeah, yeah. You know, like, maybe somebody will get me into something. So I went there and I said, you know, they have these confessions that you can go to. And I went in and I said, and they have different languages because some of the priests speak multiple languages. It's a big business, the Catholic Church. Yeah. International.

Yeah. And I went in and it's beautiful. Beautiful, moving. The Vatican's incredible. Like, you know, I went to a lot of those cathedrals and I'm a Jew, but I was just fascinated with it. But if you go to a lot of the other ones around the country and then go to the Vatican, you're like, this is clearly the main one.

Well, and religious artwork throughout time crazy or religious theater throughout time or all of that stuff it really it blends in with art

but the Vatican one is so it's so it's not it's a little more stripped down than the other ones and a lot more kind of gold

as I remember and like because some of the other ones look old and dusty and weird and there's dead popes everywhere there's probably a couple dead popes around there.

There's hundreds of dead popes everywhere in Italy. There are dead wizards everywhere. Pieces of people, relics of kinds. Right. But I remember when I went to the Vatican, I'm like, this is clearly the headquarters. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite a building.

It's amazing. And did you go to Sistine Chapel? I did. Beautiful. Yes. So, okay, so you quite a building it's amazing and did you go to sistine chapel i did beautiful yes so okay so you go to confession at the vatican so go to the confession of the vatican and i say you know i'm really having a problem i used to really believe and i'm i'm having an issue yeah and uh the guy who took you know he didn't really speak a lot of english i think he had english was probably like Third or fourth On the list of things That he spoke It was a shorter line Italian guy

I don't know It's in Portuguese Some other language And English I can't remember exactly now It was a long time ago And I went in And I said

You know Bless me father And I get so nervous Because I don't really Know the lines You know what I mean So I was like Oh god

Is it For I have sinned You know And then that first experience With like you know The father The ride your bike oh God is it for I have sinned you know and then that first experience with like you know the father the ride your bike to church and so I go in there

and I say you know I don't really know how to do this but I just want to say I am having you know I've had a crisis of faith

for a long time and I'm just hoping you can help me out wow and he says you gotta have a faith you say you say like I think it was like eight Hail Marys and a three Our Fathers. Okay.

And I was like, oh no. That guy, that poor guy, he has no idea. He just like blew it for me. Like that was it. It was my final straw. He could have like really wrote me back in somehow. And that was it. You got to have a faith.

You got to have a faith. And that's it. Yeah. So it's a funny experience so oh yeah of course yeah it all comes from within anyways i think so yeah it would have been amazing though if someone just kind of blew your mind somehow yeah it would have presented some philosophical uh quandary and i think it's there somehow somebody probably has one of those things in every religion that can turn somebody like oh yeah turn you on on the inside you gotta

gotta have the right moment though. You got to like, you got to see it in their eyes. Yeah. Yeah. To do the missionary thing. Yeah. But you know, now it's just sort of like a,

just try to be a good person as I can. Yeah. And hope that it. Be a good mom. Yeah. Yeah. And hope that it all works out. Sure.

When did you start getting on stage, not in the non-professional way? I was, but well, you know, like in kindergarten, we did Noah's Ark. Of course, yeah. That was the big, everybody remembers. My parent and my best friend's mom, my mom and her mom, were like, wouldn't it be cute if our kids were skunks? Which is an adorable concept, but we got called stinky for the next 10 years of our life. And so we were skunks. That was my first performance.

And I knocked over the waves, and that was a problem. And so I didn't know that I would have a stage career necessarily. But then I always liked it. I just always sort of, I, to be honest, I think I had a lot of emotions that I didn't know what to do with. And I would often find myself like I had a cat. I would go outside and like sing to my cat, cry to my cat, like as a kid, you know, like tell these stories or do this dress up thing.

And like, they always had this emotional commitment to them that I think was. Yeah. Well, you're kind of an only child. Kind of. Yes. Yeah. I mean, they were all in the house. Nobody moved far away.

Yeah. And we had a house that was always filled with people. Yeah. So. And food. And yeah, food for sure. But I mean, like mostly like people. People hanging around.

So if somebody didn't have a place to go, they came to our house and we'd always joke around like who's going to be on the couch and we'd look and see like one of our cousins or some stranger we don't know. But my parents were always very open with people. And my dad can play like all kinds of instruments

and my dad's like really like a secret artist in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What kind of, he played guitar and stuff? My dad can play the guitar, the accordion, the banjo, the- Does he bring it out at family gatherings? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Not anymore.

He won't do it anymore. And my dad's actually, my parents are actually shy in that way. Like they can never believe that this is what I do for a living. Really? Yeah. But my parents are a little shy that way, but yeah. Oh. There was always music at my house.

My brothers played, my sister played. Bands? There was always music at my house. My brothers played. My sister played. Bands? I would play music all the time. Like what kind? Was anyone into crazy music? A lot of Creedence Clearwater. Yeah. Loved a lot of Creedence Clearwater, which is, you know, there's only a few chords there,

so it's not too complicated. Yeah. But yeah, it was fun. We always had instruments and drums and neighbors complaining about it. So it was a creative house. Yeah, of sorts. Yeah. But no one was in a band?

No, and nobody thought that you know no i mean maybe my brothers yeah my brothers were in bands i think probably yeah rock bands yeah yeah but no one thought this was i'm gonna make a living at this no no just you well my brother my oldest brother went to like a modeling contest with his girlfriend one time when he was young. And then he ended up winning. And so he traveled around modeling for a while and then did a little bit of like acting and stuff. And yeah. And I remember he helped me get one of my first jobs, which was I worked at a casting agency in San Francisco. Whose?

God, it was called like 48 Bonneau. How many could there be in San Francisco? Yeah. And they cast commercials. And I would be the person at the desk. And I, I mean, I was so excited. I wanted to be an actress in show business.

I did my first play at 11 and I wanted to be an actress ever since then. And I was like, Oh my God, which play the music man played an old lady at 11. Yeah. Is there any videotape of that? Yeah. Oh,

I'm sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. My father videoed everything. You gotta go with it. It would be like somebody else's wedding, and it would be a picture of like, it would just be a video of us. Right.

Doing something. Yeah. Yeah. He had always had like, he was a photographer at one point, so he has always had all this equipment. Yeah. So you're working at a casting agency, so how do you, did you study acting at Loyola? I did.

You did? Mm-hmm. For undergrad? Yeah. And for all four years you were doing it? casting agency so how do you did you study acting at loyola i did you did for undergrad yeah and for all four years you were doing it yeah and then i didn't totally finish and so i had to go back i went back i didn't know if i would have my goal was sort of never to finish i was like i'm just gonna go my parents like please go to college and i was the first of all of us to go away to a four year college oh yeah and uh and so i went away to loyola marymount which wasn't that far i wanted to go to either new york or la and yeah la seemed like not so far from my family

sure and i had actually a little scholarship to another school theater scholarship closer to home so you went for you got a scholarship at loyola no no i had another at another place i might have got i don't know if i got one there or not it was just so you auditioned for it no you didn't have to audition oh which I was I didn't want to have to audition yeah um and uh and I went to Loyola and it was

you know from coming from my high school it was like people who that I liked at my high school who I thought were good went there

so I thought well it's you know small it didn't feel so foreign to to go to a giant school sure but you had built-in friends?

No. Well, I had one girl who came with me, Jeannie, who had the pool party. But then she left. And then I made friends. But that was the great thing, I think. For me, going to school in Los Angeles and trying to become an actress was great for me because it actually gave me like a good group of friends when we had gone through moving away from home together.

And I have this wonderful group of people that I met through school. I didn't have to meet them going out at bars because I just moved to L.A. to be an actress. So I had a nice support system. Avoided the pratfalls of getting lost in the city right away. As much as possible. As much as possible. Yeah. But, you know, I think that's hard.

I think it's really hard when people move out here to become an actor. With the dream. Because you have to make friends. You have to, like, there's a lot of pressure to begin with. And then not to have a support system and stuff. And also figure out how to get in, you know, to, like, because it seems like most of show business is built on those kind of relationships where you meet people and you kind of maintain friendships with casting agents and this and that. I was never the best at that. No, I was terrible at it.

Well, you did all right. Yeah, it took 40 years. But see, I think that's what you learn. It wasn't about like- 35. But I think that's the real relationship. I think people can smell it if it's not real. Right.

I guess. So I think there are people that like have sort of an undeniable talent that if they get seen in the right situation, they'll probably be OK if they don't destroy themselves. And then there are people that work very hard and kind of find their way as well. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I don't know. I've never I never was great at maintaining relationships

or even being that pleasant when I was younger. You seem pleasant now. It took a long time. Just because I'm sitting in Obama's chair. Oh, yes. No, I mean,

it just, it take, you know, I had to get beat up and, you know, handed my ass a few times. I think it's hard when you come to be an actor, actress, or anything in this business. Yeah, I came to get beat up and handed my ass a few times. I think it's hard when you come to be an actor, actress. Yeah, I came to do comedy. So acting, I never understood.

That's extraordinarily hard. But at the very least, I just had no choice in it. It was something, it's just what I was meant to do. But the one thing about comedy is you really call your own shots. You're your own guy. Once you figure it out, you're not auditioning, you're doing your own shit from the beginning. You're not kind of going in pretending. I don't know how actors handle auditioning.

It seems so horrendous. It's still horrendous. I don't know that I necessarily have a handle on it still. It's fucking heartbreaking, really. I mean, you've got gotta really be pretty tough which is interesting because you have to be tough and at the same time be vulnerable enough to be able to do all the things that you need to do well i guess what you do is you frame it in your head as part of the job and eventually that just you know it has to right i mean you just have to be like well

you don't you you might not get it you maybe you won't it's just it's just part of it right yeah and i think for me sometimes when i figure it out like oh well i'm gonna get through this because i have this mechanism of coping with it then it doesn't work the next time you know what i mean and you get depressed about it right you know you feel like right if you really want something yeah but it's you know it's it's part of it but i think there are people who are good auditioners who right you know i mean some people are really good at auditioning. Some people are not as good at auditioning. Doesn't mean, can mean different things on set. But at this point, people know you.

I still audition. I auditioned for Green Book. Yeah? Twice. Twice? You're very good in it. Thank you. Did you like working with those guys?

I did. I did. And you know, the audition part was actually really nice because it was me and Vigo and Peter. And they waited for me like I was working. What were you doing? I was doing a movie, a horror movie, which was the first one I've really ever done. Which one?

It's called La Llorona. And so I didn't even have any clothes to wear. I borrowed something and I ran. And that's like one of three things that I really was so excited to get that I was like, this is probably never going to happen. So I'm just going to show up and try whatever I can do, which then that actually helps me in terms of auditioning. I was like, well, I just can show up and do my best. Right. This is what I got.

So maybe they'll like it. I don't know. And so I went in there and we did it. And I thought it was just going to be sort of like a casual. They're like, oh, it'll be casual kind of reading. And I got there and there was like props. Oh, yeah. And a camera and Vigo.

And I was like, oh, oh, shit. Okay. You got two choices here, Linda. You step up or step back. So I was like, all right, here we go. Yeah. And when I read it, I felt like she was somebody that I would have known. Sure.

In my family. School or something. Like she seemed very much like some friends of mine's mom. Yeah. You know, feeding everybody and loving everybody and welcoming everybody. Right. And taking care of everybody and supporting everybody. She really supported everybody.

Yeah. So we went in there and we just sort of did it and it was fun and i was like i feel like i could you know i have this problem i have this like curse where i'm like i feel like i could do a different yeah yeah so i walked out and then i was like you know it was like a little 10 o'clock at night yeah i went back another day and we sat in there and we talked and read and sort of improv and then and. And then I was on the drive home and, you know, you have this whole audition thing where you're like,

oh God, did I just, did I do it? Yeah. I can never tell if I did a good job or a bad job. You can't?

No. No, no. I mean, sometimes you know when you're not feeling it. Yeah. But just because you're feeling it doesn't mean other people are feeling,

you know what I mean? Sure. So I don't know. And then also, you just never know. I actually feel like you So I don't know. And then also, you just never know. I actually feel like you don't really ever know. It's hard to know because I've been acting for the first time really in the last few years. Is that true?

Yeah. That seems so crazy. Yeah. Well, I mean, I did my own show on IFC for a few years, but the GLOW thing was the first time I've ever really done it regularly as a job. And there's definitely times where you're like, am I in it? Am I doing it? Like when you do a scene and then the director will move on. You're like, I guess I was there. You can't just sit there and go like, I don't know if I was quite.

I mean, you can. You can, but then that's me. You can ask for another take. You annoy everybody. Right. But I've done that before. But sometimes I don't. Like, I think there's me. You can ask for another take. You annoy everybody. Right, but I've done that before. But sometimes I don't, like I think there's some, I don't know what the hell I'm judging myself against. You've been doing it your whole life.

But that doesn't mean I've gotten, you know, it doesn't mean you've gotten a handle. It changes, you know? Yeah, yeah. You change, it changes. But I think about submersion. Like, you know, how far in are you supposed to be? You know, like I can be present and stuff but like then you watch people and you read about people and you're like god they transform their whole

being how do you do that i think you just i don't know i mean i try to do that yeah you know if i'm lucky i'm doing that but i you know i think you just i i like to be in the story and just try to think with the thoughts of people and not just I don't want to sound so self-serious sure I see what you're saying like you know

actually put memories in place put a bunch of stuff in there yeah yeah yeah that even it doesn't matter right and then just listen

to the other person right yeah and I've been really lucky I mean sitting there working with Vigo's amazing did he put on weight

for that thing oh yeah I mean he ate like a champ the whole time and my job was to bring out these like plates and plates of food

like giant plates of sausage he got big yeah yeah he would actually like eat it eat it every take

like a whole sausage in his mouth and I was like how is he how is he doing that number one and number two how is he gonna lose that

yeah cause it was 40-50 pounds ugh but he lost it he did yeah I guess that's another thing I don't understand yeah me either eating on camera is terrifying

the continuity don't love watching people eat on camera I don't love it even watching a movie I don't really love watching other people eat but they all right but but they don't realize like you know what's really going on most of the time is they're spitting it out after each take yeah and they're trying to figure out you know when they they ate. You're asking scripty, like, when did I take the bite? Yeah. Or smoke the cigarette. Oh, cigarettes.

And he's doing both of those things at the same time. There was one day where it was like multiple meats and a fish. It was like this Christmas feast and those fake cigarettes. And it was a small room and it was a disastrous amount of smells. Oh, that fucking, those fake cigarettes really stink. They're terrible. Yeah. I don't know how that could be better for you than, I mean, I guess, you know.

Well, I don't smoke anymore, you know, so I smoke them, you know, I know how to smoke because I did smoke when you smoke the fake ones. You don't get, you don't feel like having like having another one no but it feels like paper is burning it's like something it's like some sort of herb or i don't know what's in there yeah no you're definitely inhaling shit yeah it's not can't be good no no um but you smoke did you smoke in mad men yeah yeah cigarettes oh yeah yeah did you ever smoke for real? You know, dabbled. Dabbled. Dabbled?

That's where you're going to clam up? No. That's the line? That's the line. All right. Okay. You dabbled. Fine.

So when you went to college, so that's where you got your primary training? Primary training in dabbling? Yeah, in dabbling with cigarettes and acting? No, I, let's see. Yeah, I guess. I studied a little bit. I did class at ACT. I studied at the National Theater in London for a summer. I studied around. When you were younger? Yeah. National Theater in London. Yeah. They had a summer program over there.. When you were younger? Yeah. National Theater in London. Yeah.

They had a summer program over there. It was really great. Yeah? And maybe I was in, I was over 18 at that time. But I studied around. I liked to study.

Yeah. I like it. Doing scene work and that kind of stuff? Scene work or body work, Alexander Grotowski. You know, all that kind of stuff.

You did all that. Yeah. I liked it. Yeah. I did. And it made a difference. Which is funny, I don't think,

you know, I don't think it's obvious in me necessarily. What?. I liked it. Yeah. I did. And it made it different. Which is funny, I don't think, you know, I don't think it's obvious in me necessarily, but I liked it. I did a lot. You know, like I just, the more I talk to actors

and as somebody who's doing it now because I'm always poking around trying to figure things out, you know, whatever you put together for yourself is what it is. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. There are some real nerds about it and some real arrogant people about process, but like ultimately you're going to take it from wherever you, whatever works for you. Yeah. And I also, I never really liked to exhibit my process so much. But I did used to do a lot of stuff.

And I do some of it now. Some of it is stuck. Some of it hasn't. Some of it would come in weird ways. Yeah. Like I remember somebody once gave me, as a joke, the Tony Robbins series, right? And there's a workbook in there. And I remember being like, you know what?

I'm going to use this workbook. I wish I could recall which characters I did it on. But there's this whole workbook about like where do you see yourself in five years? Where do you see yourself? Like what is your biggest fear? What would happen if you got over that biggest fear? And it actually worked really great. great as like a character workbook. Oh, really?

Yeah. When I was, I wanted to do that kind of work. Oh, so it helped you. I would keep journals. I would do, you know what I mean? All that kind of stuff. Oh, it's sort of like your version of backstory. Yeah.

Oh, so you used a template of Tony Robbins. There's a Tony Robbins workbook that I got. And I was like, this is kind of perfect. It's good for character building. And of course, I didn't do it for my real life and get any. No, of course not. Well, no, I should have. I should have.

No, maybe not. The quote unquote joke gift that I got. You might have quit acting and just started going to Tony Robbins concerts. They look like they might be fun. Really? Well, people hyped up. Sure, yeah. Feel good for a few days.

Why not? Spend a couple grand. I'll take any of it. Leave thinking you can win. That would be great. If I could get convinced of that, that would be amazing. My life would be different. You are winning.

Yes. Knock on wood. So Freaks and Geeks wasn't the first one. No. I had done a couple years at least. I had my 21st birthday on my first set and i was playing a freshman in high school in tv uh-huh on a saturday morning kids show and i remember having that birthday and i and i thought to myself if i could have every single birthday on a set yeah i'll be

the luckiest person in the world you know how did How did that work out? How many did you get? Actually on set? Yeah, probably a lot. Not that many. No? I mean, you know. ER, like three, must have three birthdays or four birthdays on set.

A hundred. No. But I'm in June, so sometimes you're not really feeling it. Oh, yeah, not shooting. Yeah. You could just go over there.

You mind if I just go into the studio? Well, then that changes after like 20 years. You're like, I just would like to have my birthday off. Yeah, exactly.

No, I should still be so lucky. So you did like just TV stuff first? I did. I did. I got my first job. Well, when I worked at that commercial agency. In San Francisco? In San Francisco for like the summer. Yeah. I would, I got to be an extra in a commercial.

Oh, exciting. Which is not a glamorous job for me at the time. But you were on camera. I mean, it was glamorous for me at the time, but you know. And then I came to LA

and I tore down a thing on a post and I was an extra in a movie. It was a not great experience. And then I was in a play and I kept sending out invitations for like

actors and managers. I got that book. I can't remember the name of the book now but it was like you have all the actors managers and agents and addresses and did anyone come a friend of a friend had a manager and he was coming to see it and he was like I'll send one to them and I'll bring him and he came and he saw me and of course I was playing hunchback because I know I got a choice to audition for like the ingenue or the hunchback. And I was like, the hunchback. And so he came and saw the play.

And afterwards, like, I'd love to represent you. Come meet with me. And so I met with him. And the first audition he sent me on was a kid's Saturday morning show called Bone Chillers. Yeah. And I went in called Bone Chillers. Yeah. And I went in and I auditioned. Yeah. And I got the part.

And you're off and running. And I was like, oh my God, this is incredible. I had been working scooping ice cream at my college. Yeah. $4.25 an hour. And the idea of like making scale was like, it was just unbelievable to me. It was unbelievable to me that I could make a living as an actor. It just didn't really seem like a real possibility.

Yeah. I didn't know anybody who had actually done it. Right. And as a job. But by the time I'd go into college, I was like, that's what I want to do. Yeah. And it happened. You were 21.

I'm not going to do that. Yeah. You know, I don't know how I'm going to do it. And then I played very, very young. Yeah. For a long time. I looked very young.'s i was a late bloomer i hit puberty really late that's good though well it's good for you high school okay but i mean for the job for hollywood it was great it's good because if you can find somebody that can act and also play 15 it's like you can get a lot of you know mileage out of that yes and i knew people who were sort

of in my similar situation who were like oh i hate it i can only play a kid and i was like please this is gonna run out yeah the sands are going through the hourglass so you might as well enjoy it you're not gonna be able to play young forever right so you played a kid for the first few years oh yeah long yeah i mean all the way freaks and geeks you were 18 right freaks and geeks yeah so you could really do it you could really yeah it. Yeah. And then you're also getting all that experience. Yeah. And I loved it.

I was excited. I mean, I wanted to play characters, so not playing something that was me was fun. Yeah. I always wanted to, that was sort of what I thought you were supposed to do. But you were doing like, it seemed like, well, you did a few one-offs, but then you had arcs and things, it looks like. It was after my first i booked the series yeah like the bone chillers right yeah which was a big deal yeah to book a

series sure yeah hell yeah deal everybody was excited your new manager must have been thrilled oh yeah how long did you stay with that guy uh for as long as i could and then he said to me he actually said to me i don't know how much more i can do for you it might be time for you to move on like he was very kind about it oh really yeah yeah because he thought i had outgrown bigger representation yeah uh-huh so um that's a nice story yeah it is so yeah so you got a series and then you did like i did guest spots but there was like a there was a year where i feel like i didn't work for a whole year. Yeah.

And then I think I got a part on Third Rock from the Sun. John Lithgow, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Who was the nicest person. I remember him being the nicest person back then. Yeah.

That was a really nice cast. Yeah. And then we worked again on Daddy's Home, too. Oh, yeah? He was like, all this time. Did he play your father-in-law? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how does, we might as well tell the story. What story? Well, just about like how, because I've talked to Judd, I've talked to Paul, but that seemed to be a very cathartic thing for everybody involved. And, you know, what was the process of Freaks and Geeks? Because it's such a special and, you know, kind of isolated show. Yeah. And I think everybody has it, you know know nobody really knew who any of us were at all and some of us had not worked at all right and even if we had worked people maybe didn't notice of course you know like i

had been working but yeah nobody yeah you're in a lot of tv stuff notice right you know right i mean my story is i remember i kept auditioning for pilot season you know this whole pilot season you get like a bunch of scripts you read the first episode and everybody goes in on auditions and I mean, my story is I remember I kept auditioning for pilot season, you know, this whole pilot season thing. What was that, like February? You get like a bunch of scripts. When was that? You read the first episode and everybody goes in on auditions. And back then it was only network television. Right.

So you would, if you got to the point where it was you and a few other people. Where you test. You would test. You would have to sign the agreement. Like I will be in this show for the next six or seven years. This is my pay. And, you know, you know how it works. Right.

And then you would go in and if two of you didn't get cast and one did, they'd rip up two contracts and the one person would go on to become the person in the show. Right. So the year before it had happened to me and I had tested for a bunch of stuff where it's like sign the contract, negotiate the contract and then get there and then heartbreak. Well, yeah. And you go in for all those executives. Yeah. You have to go in like a hundred times too it's i mean a hundred but like literally one time i went in like eight times for something you know because you go into the casting director and you go into the other person the other person it just keeps getting scarier and scarier as the group gets bigger and the people who are judging you is more and then

it needs to go through more people and then you know yeah and so the year before i had like almost gotten a bunch of things. So the next year came and I think people were casting directors were aware that I was maybe somebody who could potentially be hired. And I was up for three things on NBC at that time. And I read Freaks and Geeks and I was like, this isn't like anything else. It really wasn't. You know, it was like that was sort of what killed it in its own way. It wasn't like anything else. What was it exactly that't you know it was like that was sort of what killed it in its own way it wasn't like anything else what was it exactly that made you know that because it was it seemed more vulnerable or more real or that it was funny in a way that wasn't a one-liner funny

right right yeah um it was in between a sitcom and a drama which wasn't happening a lot at all at that point like that just really wasn't. It didn't seem heightened. It seemed like bittersweet, heartbreaking. And it also seemed to me that the girl was smart and not sexualized. You know what I mean? It was just like an interesting character to me. It was a person who seemed to be going through

what I felt like I sort of went through as a kid. It was like you really love your parents but you need to separate right you like your friends but you kind of out you know you just the idea of outgrowing who you once were right right and it just felt there was a heart to it that didn't seem to be the other thing i was reading was like girl like battling with like how to like, rebellious and sexual. And the other one was, like, I can't even remember what the other one was. And I remember getting a phone call because there were three things on the table. And I said, I want to wait for this one. And so I had to negate the other two. So it was like, if I didn't get that one, then I wasn't going to probably have a job that year.

Because those were my three things that I had gone all the way to the end with. I took a chance. It was like a gamble. And they said, and I got a phone call from someone from the network because the other two things were on the same network on NBC. And they said, you know, these other two are probably more of a sure thing. This other one especially, it's so-and-so and such-and-such and it's in-house and I just want you to know. And I said, you know, I really appreciate the phone call, which I don't know where I got the guts for this. But I was like, I really appreciate the phone call, but I really believe in this and I'm going to try to do,

I'm going to go for this one and hopefully this will be the one. Right. Which was a big deal. Yeah, it was a big deal. Because I didn't know that those phone calls weren't always made

and I didn't, I don't think I realized what that meant at the time. Right. But you loved the material and it had depth. I absolutely loved it. I was like committed

to how much I loved it. That's great. And then I heard that they didn't want to see me. Somebody wasn't a fan. I don't know what was true and what isn't, you know, because you get filtered these things through representation at the time. You never found out later? You know, I don't.

They could have been trying to dupe you into doing the other thing. Who knows? Right. Right. Yeah. So, but they were pretty supportive. I have to say, like they just, they were supportive. I think everybody who read it knew it was good material. Yeah. Yeah. So, but they were pretty supportive. I have to say, like, they just, they were supportive. I think everybody who read it knew it was good material.

Special. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I auditioned, and then I auditioned again, and then I auditioned with the real people that, like, I auditioned with, God, Jason, who I had been in a movie with before. Oh, yeah. So, he was the only person I'd ever really known. Yeah.

And then, I remember franco being there i remember a couple of people being there that ended up being in the show um john daly wasn't there yet because i think he got cast out of out of new york but there was a thing where they brought us all together and we did mixes and matches and then we read for like several parts yeah and then i then I got the part. And it was always pretty fun, that process? Yeah. I mean. That process was. I mean, if you look at the group of people themselves, I mean, like I'm sure you know,

like working with, when you work with a group of people who are really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes every day really fun. Sure, yeah. So, and then, you know, and those were really funny kids. Yeah, yeah. And then there was this special thing to it too, where a lot of them were very young. So, you had people's parents on set all the time. Oh, right. So, like Seth has wonderful kids. Yeah, yeah. And then there was this special thing to it too where a lot of them were very young

so you had people's parents on set all the time. Oh, right. So like Seth has wonderful parents and they were on set all the time and you grow to love

people's family. It's like going to school or like community center with people because you end up knowing just more than the actor next to you. Sure, sure.

You get to know them as people, see where they come from. Yeah, you see people's parents, you see what they, you know what I mean? And and it was a you know relative to your life you mean canadians yeah sure several yeah but you know so you it was um and i think everybody was green enough at the time to be completely optimistic and so that there was nobody was really jaded yet oh right and so there was that going into it with the group of people that they had chosen.

They chose people that weren't the usual suspects. Yeah. Which is nice because, you know, I think the more you get there's like always a list of usual suspects that come in. I've talked to Martin, too. Like Martin. Love Martin. Yeah, he's something. He's so talented.

And what you didn't realize, too, when he was a kid was you would sit there and you would talk to him and his posture would be one way. And then he would go to play Bill. And it was almost like he had Estelle Getty's posture from the Golden Girls. Like it was like a total, there was a metamorphosis there that people just assumed, oh, that's just him. Yeah. It wasn't. It wasn't. No, everybody was really, you know, and I was older. I was kind of pitching up my voice. I was kind of like pushing things down. You know, everybody was really, you know, and I was older. I was kind of pitching up my voice. I was kind of like pushing things down. You know, I was like, you know, we were all doing character work, which was really fun. And we were all watching each other and encouraging each other to do it.

And then Busy and I had, we both went to Loyola. I just talked to her. She's great. Yeah. Are you guys friends? Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I don't see, it's hard to see everybody anymore. Sure, of course. You have a family and then you're working and, you know. Yeah, yeah. But. And you guys got along right away? Yes, we knew we went to the same college. I mean I don't see it's hard to see everybody anymore especially when you have a family and then you're working and you know but and you guys got along right away yes we knew

we went to the same college we'd kind of like known each other peripherally and she tells this story about like how I saw her and I was like

you should do the show and then we end up doing the show together you know it's just yeah we end up being on ER together later and it's you know

it's a it's a a lot somebody once told me it's a long life in this business if you're lucky and I feel like I hope that that's true know it's a it's a a lot somebody once told me it's a long life in this business if you're lucky and i feel like i hope that that's true because there's a lot of a lot of good things that come back around yeah and and working and you just did that that last paul feig movie too yeah and that was fun huh yeah i didn't get to see it i have this thing you want

to come for for two days like yes whatever you say, yes, I'll go. Those relationships stayed strong? Yeah, Paul's a sweet person. He is a great guy. You know, a lot of that Freaks and Geeks, like a lot of that bittersweet heartbreak stuff. It's all him? Well, not all him. I mean, it's a collaboration.

The writer's room there was amazing too. There was so many people on that show who brought their whole selves to it because they sort of asked them to like, hey, what's the worst thing that happened to you? it in the show oh really people would yeah and people really delved into like that crappy time of being a kid where you feel terrible about yeah everything but hopeful about everything too yeah well so that was that that was the life changer that series no i mean i don't i'm still waiting for the life changers oh yeah maybe it'll happen

uh keep trying i mean it seems like i'm trying i just worked a foreign morning last night um no i think uh that changed things in some ways yeah but then the show died yeah yeah and at that point when a show died it meant things to people it wasn't like oh well somebody else will pick it up and i'll just run forever yeah when a show died it meant things to people it wasn't like oh well somebody else will pick it up and i'll just run forever yeah when a show died back then you were considered a failure uh you know there was not me personally i don't think there's a little bit of a stink on you there just was like uh what do you do next right you know yeah and what do you do next that kind of compares to that yeah and why didn't people like that right and why didn't that work and you know because i had this thing where like i was in these magazines as like you know yeah we were in all

these different things like critics choices and you know won an emmy for casting or all these different things happened but then the success didn't match up and it got canceled and then all of us were out of a job yeah for real yeah and the guys didn't feel great they wanted it to go like everybody of course you know the guys in charge they put a lot into it succeed so there was a feeling of back to the back to the trying devastating yeah and how long were you out of work you were doing movies too a bit right yeah looks like you did some weird movies i did well you know i didn't what am i gonna i don't know i'm not judging you but i was a little judgy well no i just like it

so i was looking at things and there's i think your first movie was like or maybe not your first one's a d snyder project strange land yes which that was coming off the heels of sling blade it was the same studio so like they're doing this horror movie which is the only other horror movie they're in this horror movie and it's like the same studio as sling like you know it's all that's not sure that was we had fun yeah that's the first time i ever went away on location and we had fun. But it seems like, what was it about? It was about a guy who was into body modification and sort of body torturing. Him stalking this girl and her father. Terrifying idea.

So it was a good experience. Oh, making that movie was so much fun. I have very rarely had bad experiences. Yeah. Very, very rarely. Yeah. You know, you work with some very funny people. Yes.

And amazing people. Yes. Martin Short. Yes. Well, that was fun too. I bet. That was a whole improv movie. We had fun.

And Reese. Yes. Which I love. I remember at the time, I was like, I don't know if you want it. Because I think it was after Feast. She's like, I don't know if you want it. Because I think it was after Free Skies. She's like, I don't know if you want to do this part. I was like, I think that part is hilarious. I want to do that part.

I didn't know that the movie would become, Legally Blonde became this thing. I had no idea it would become that. She's kind of a thing. Reese is kind of an amazing person. She can do both. She can do comedy. She's really, and producing now. She can do both. She can do comedy. She's really, she's in producing now.

Powerhouse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, so you never had any really bad experiences. Well, I mean,

I wouldn't say I've never had a bad experience, but I think the majority of my career, I mean, I, I've had good experiences. I like people. I like being on set. Well,

it seems like you were also aware at a young age of the possibilities of bad things that can happen to actresses and making bad choices. My grandfather used to always tell me, don't be an actress. It's a dirty business. And I was like, what are you talking about? I think I was oblivious enough not to understand when things like that were happening to me in some ways and to deflect them. And I think there are definitely times when things could have gone other ways. Yeah. But I was just lucky enough for that not to happen.

But also it seemed like the choices you make, you don't seem to exude the kind of strange insecurity or desperation. You seem pretty earnest and together for the most part. Thank you. I appreciate that. I have a lot of um inner anxiety about stuff i have to say like and i question things because there are i feel infinite possibilities when i try to do a character or a piece right and then at the same time on the other side of that i feel like there's like some perfect way of doing it so i'm never quite satisfied yeah i know that one but i I know what I like for the most part.

But it seems like you were able to not get used up. I tried not to, yeah. And I tried to stay out of any of the tabloidy things. I tried not to get drawn into that kind of stuff early on. And I think also- That was a conscious choice? Yeah, I think there were opportunities where I could have made different choices to invite certain things. Right.

But I'm not that, I'm, contrary to what I do, I'm not sure I like to be totally looked at. In a way, in a way. Yeah. I'm very open with my friends. Right. I'm very open with people that I meet and I love meeting people. Yeah. Which is the reason why I like being on sets.

Yeah. It's just an incredible pop-up community. Well, it seems like even with something like ER, which you were on for a long time, I mean, out of all the shows that people love, that seemed to be a real family somehow that evolved. Absolutely. You know, like as the cast changed and you know there was a history to it and like it seemed pretty dug in like it must have been a pretty good life for a few years i it was i actually was only intending on staying a year a year and a half you know i'd had like a bunch of stuff personally happen that i just wanted to be close to home

and i just wanted to you know like work and dive into work and be close to home and I just wanted to, you know, like work and dive into work and be close to home. And they said, you know, they want to meet with you. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I'm interested in doing a television show at the moment. Like, you know, I just went and I went and I met with them. And I remember seeing Jonathan Kaplan, who had directed The Accused, talking about the show and like all these people. And then I remember watching an episode where a lot of the characters went over in Africa and I watched the act and I was like, this is different than anything I've seen on television.

They said, you know, you can come on for a year and a half. I thought, well, that's good. I can stay close to my family. I can sort of like dig in here. Right. And then after a year and a half, I'll just go do other stuff. Yeah. You know?

Because I never like to stay in one place long enough. Like I really, I like to change it up. Yeah. In terms of work. Yes. Yeah. As much as I can. Yeah. I don't always have those opportunities to it up. Yeah. In terms of work. Yes. Yeah. As much as I can. I don't always have those opportunities to choose everything.

Right. I don't get the first crop of choices. Yeah. But whenever I can, I try to choose things that are sort of different from the last. And so after the first year and a half, it was such a wonderfully supportive, hilarious group of people. We laughed so much on that show, which is surprising because it's so serious, but I think that's what keeps it sort of alive for you. That I couldn't imagine choosing to leave the community of it.

Yeah. And the work was always really fun. We always had people, for me, when other actors come in who you admire or who are great, who challenged you, like we always had incredible guest stars on it. Sure.

Yeah. So it was, and the actual cast was all, they were fantastic actors. So we had fun working together and we had fun off screen together and there's some of my close friends still. Yeah.

Yeah, and so the community of it was really a beautiful thing and I stayed. And it got you through whatever you were going through? Yeah, it got me through a lot of things. And it got a lot of, you know, and if you spend, it was the longer than I'd spent, it was longer than I'd spent in high school, longer than I spent in college.

So that community of people is like a support system. It's so weird because I came to Freaks and Geeks later, and because I don't keep up with things, I don't watch enough things. When I saw you on Mad Men, I'm like, oh, look, she's back. But you never went anywhere. But the funny thing about ER is that industry-wise, people didn't really watch it so much anymore. Like if I go travel somewhere outside of America, people are like, emergency room,

emergency room, emergency room. But within the industry, people just thought I disappeared. Right. But you were working like a lot? I was working and enjoying myself. So, you know. And also like

honing certain skills. Oh, I can't imagine. But then after that, my skills had been honed in such a way that I felt like I needed to take a break. Uh-huh.

And so. You left on your own will? I waited till the show ended. I ended with the show. Okay. And then when I left, I just sort of took a break and I was like okay i'm gonna wait

and i'm gonna find something that i because i love to work yeah and that can be a wonderful thing and that can also be like hey you gotta chill out for a second and just like wait for something we have some money saved you could think about things yeah and also i just i like i like i like the process sure so um but, but anyways, and so I waited, and then I got the script called Return, which is one of my favorite things that I had done, and it was a small film with Liza Johnson, who at the time was a first-time director.

Oh, you played a soldier, right? Yeah, a soldier returning. And I was in, it was the first movie I was in nearly every frame. Uh-huh. And so that was really, Michael Shannon and John Slattery and Paul Sparks. It was really a great experience.

So the whole, the ER thing really gave you like a whole sort of toolbox of chops and confidence. Yes, but you worked in one way. Like there's a way of working in television when it's procedural that is like, you know,

you learn how to like get it done every single day. And you, for me that's, but it also helped me to learn to like really listen to other people in a different way because that's what keeps it interesting for you is what the people bringing in have to offer you. So when we'd get like Stanley Tucci or Forrest Whitaker or any of these people who came in to play their roles, it added a different dynamic. And you were able to, I don't know, it honed a listening skill for me in a way. That's great. Just changing the performance.

That's important. I know. But everything's different. Doing that show is 100 times different than doing Bloodline. It's a totally different experience even though it's a series. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah but but but for you personally as a person who can do what you do every experience adds to you know the confidence and to the ability like you don't show up places anymore where you're like what the fuck's happening

here no i do absolutely absolutely a hundred percent i definitely show up and i can also feel like i know what i do and then the next next day I'll be like, what am I doing? But that's good. You know, I feel like once you get too convinced of what you're doing, you're maybe not discovering enough. Did you like doing Mad Men? Yes. That's kind of interesting universe, huh? Yes.

Yes. Yes. And there's a very, you know, it's like, you know, I didn't join the show not knowing what the show was. I knew what the show was and I liked the show so being part of it was fun. Yeah. And then you have the ability to trust what's happening there.

You know, when you do a new show you're sort of like trying to feel out like how it's going to work and what it's going to be. Does this person know what they're doing?

Well, sometimes. Yeah, yeah. But, and you can do, it seems like you can do anything. You can do comedy. You can, you know, you're a good foil. You can do anything. You can do comedy. You can,

you know, you're, you're a good foil. You can do drama. You can do everything. Thank you. And they still, everybody still, uh,

puts you in the funny movies. You're in big, funny movies. Yeah. And they're also in kids movies. Yeah. You do, you do everything.

What is this thing? You're that is at the end of the, uh, resume here. What's this Al Capone movie? Oh, that I'm doing a show right now called dead to me. Yeah. That's a dramedy. Okay. What's this Al Capone movie? Oh, that. I'm doing a show right now called Dead to Me.

Yeah. That's a dramedy. Okay. With Christina Applegate. Oh, okay. How's she doing? She's great. Great.

She's so good. Good. Is that on? Not yet. No, we just, we finished shooting on next week. We have three more days. How many did you do?

10. Wow. I just finished last night at 4 a.m. My mind's a little crazy. But that's been really fun. And then the Al Capone movie, it is Fonzo.

Tom Hardy plays Al Capone. That's crazy. You're working with Tom Hardy. Yeah. What the fuck? That's like a well of like, what the hell's going on there? With him or with me?

With him. Just not with him. He's such an odd actor. He's so good. Oh With him or with me? Yeah, with him. Just not with him. Like he's so, like he's such an odd actor. He's so good. Oh, he's so good. Yeah, I can't. He's so good.

And you play his wife? Yes, I play May Capone and it's about, and the director's Josh Trank and he wrote it and directed it and he'll cut it all together and it'll be totally his vision

and he's got like a really specific and really cool vision. It's about Al Capone in his last years and his syphilitic dementia. Wild. Yeah. When you do movies like, and you've done so many of them. I mean, I don't know if it's about that.

But that's the period. That's what it is. That's the time in Al's life. Yeah. But when you do movies like that, when you read a script, isn't it sort of like mind-blowing to like who would commit to this story why this story it's just amazing to me that people choose what they choose yeah you know that's the whole thing i know i know that's the vision yeah do you ever think about writing or doing that yes do you do it do right i write with a partner and he and i have sold two things that never got made okay but we went down the road yeah sure um and i always hesitate to say that because i hesitate to say you're a writer

because everybody's like oh i'm all right you know well was it projects for that you wanted to be in or one was not and one was and then we're working on a few other things and oh that's cool i like it i really like and you've been doing you've done so much tv and stuff did you ever direct no not yet you want to do that too? Eventually. Am I saying things where you're like, why is he bringing this up? He knows I want to do it and I just haven't fucking done it yet

and I don't know why. Oh no, not at all. No, I actually had an opportunity to do it but at this point, I feel like I need to sort of take a little breather for a moment and sort of have my real, because I'm just coming off the series

that's been a long haul and I was on a movie right before that. So I'm just going to take a little break. Yeah. And recollect myself. All right.

But no, I do want to do those things. I know that sounds way too serious for. What? I don't know. I sounded very serious about collecting myself.

About recollecting yourself? Yeah, that is not even a word. But I'm so serious about it. You just want to reground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Regroup. Relive my life.

Regroup. Relive your life? No. Sometimes. You're awfully hard on yourself. Yeah. What is that about? Annoying.

It's annoying. To you? To me. I'm hard on myself about being hard on myself. You ever tried to figure out why? I think it's rooted in, well, do we really want to go? I think it's anxiety, to be honest. I think if you have anxiety, it'll go in any way.

It's like water. It'll find a chance. No, I have it. I have it. But mine manifests in dread. Yes. I start thinking, and then i'm like it but over nothing like you know like today i've gotta i gotta eat lunch you know like just like ridiculous shit

is how my anxiety works that's why i'm saying it'll find something i know but i don't beat the shit out of myself as much as i used to how did you stop by i i didn't know what purpose it was serving on some level and that doesn't always stop it. You know what I mean? It's not serving any purpose. No, it's the worst. But I also feel like I'm going to, I think I can flip it sometimes. Yeah.

Sometimes it goes negative. And I think at that same, I think it also goes positive sometimes too. Right. Like flip it. So I'm going to practice that. Flipping it? Flipping it. Because I think a negative imagination, you can also flip it to being, imagining the worst.

And I do feel like that is part of why I do it. I mean, I also feel like I might win the lottery. Yeah. And I also feel like there might be an earthquake. You know what I mean? It's the same. Do you play the lottery? I do.

But then I don't check my ticket, so I don't know what that means. More anxiety. Yeah, maybe. Like what happens if I win or don't win? Did I throw away a ticket? Did I throw away a winning ticket? Yeah, that's true too.

I didn't, right? I don't know. We're kidding. It's good talking to you. I do have some in my wallet if you want. You do? Yeah. Thanks for coming in.

Thank you for having me. That was nice. She's intense, but very charming. There's a lot going on there. I enjoyed that. That was Linda Cardellini and me. And she can be seen currently in the movie Green Book, which she's great in. It's in theaters now.

And she's in the upcoming Netflix comedy series, Dead to Me. Now I'm going to play some haunting, echo-ridden guitar. © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you. Boomer lives! Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.