WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 993 - Tony Shalhoub

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

Tony Shalhoub grew up with nine siblings so it’s no surprise he developed a way to stand out. Tony and Marc talk about his upbringing in Green Bay, Wisconsin, worshiping at the Church of Lombardi, aka Lambeau Field, and eventually leaving town to become an actor. Tony explains how tricky it is to separate himself from popular characters, like Antonio from Wings and Detective Monk, how his genealogy research in Lebanon made him realize he might be related to a Hollywood legend, and how the popularity of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is truly global. This episode is sponsored by SimpliSafe and Butcher Box. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast. Today on the show,'ll be talking to tony shalhoub in a bit it was a it was a nice chat he's a great guy and i was excited to talk to him he's very good in in mrs mazel but he's also been great in everything he's ever done my i think my first experience with Tony was probably in Barton Fink, which he was great in Barton Fink. But I would be, you know, I got to tell you what's going on because this is audio. Some of you know me very well from listening to me. And I don't want to sound heavy hearted or fucked up to you in a way where you're like, what's up? But I am heavy hearted today. And I know it's Monday and I don't want to bum anybody out. But, you know, things happen.

You know, obviously the world is out of our control. Sure. You know, there's horror stories every day all around us but uh my little my little kitten buster kitten uh is sick and he's he's very sick and he's in the hospital now i don't know when this stuff happens i i always think about other people with bigger problems with uh you know real illness and family members and themselves a tragedy whatever but this this is my life and this kitten you know i've gotten to love this kitten and and he's you know he's in the hospital he's he's sick you know and uh the i don't know what the fuck is wrong with him, but I do know exactly what's wrong with him.

I don't know really how it happened. You know, a few days ago, he was throwing up and he threw up a few times during the day and he wasn't eating. But these are cats. I've been dealing with cats for years and it happens sometimes. And yeah, I didn't know whether I should take him in I didn't take him in and then that night I got home his energy was okay but he still was not eating and I loaded him up I called the emergency vet in Eagle Rock and I was like you know should I bring him in and of course they're like yeah bring him in and then I looked at him and I said

I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna just do I think I'm going to just do it in the morning. And, you know, cause he had some sort of stomach thing before. And while the next morning I, I got up early and he was, it was, I don't know, you know, so I brought him into my vet and there's a new vet there. Thank God. And, you know, he was really good. This guy, Dr. Ram. Uh, and, uh, you know, know, I told him about the stomach thing. He looked at the past files and then he did blood tests.

And, you know, he comes out, he says, look, this cat, you know, is in kidney failure right now. And I'm like, what the fuck? He's a two and a half year old cat. You know, this is a, you know a little black cat and um and I like what do we do and you know he said well you know it's it's it's Friday I you know we're you know he needs he's gonna need 24 hour care or we got to put him on fluids and antibiotics we don't know what it is and then I started thinking like did he did he eat some of this poison shit you know then I started thinking like wait, did he eat some of this poison shit?

You know, then I started thinking, like, wait a minute. You know, he was kind of licking his dick the other day, you know, last week, on Sunday, last Sunday. And I think there might have been bloody pee in the box. But, you know, sometimes Fonda does that. I didn't know if it was blood. I didn't know if it was, you know, shit. I don't know, man. I got three cats over here.

And I'm not trying to let myself off the hook i think the best apparently that can happen is that it's a that it's an actual infection and it's not toxic and that you know that you hopefully i don't know i'm waiting to hear today so i took him to another vet that has 24-hour care and um you know and we we got him you know on it and he's been over there and you know i don't i don't have children you know i don't have a lot of debt i don't live a big life and you know i i've been critical in my life about people who spend what seems like a lot

of money on cats but you know look i'm 55 i'm you know i'm gonna spend a little money to see if I can save this guy, you know, so I'm waiting to hear, you know. I just, it's weird what you go through when you're a cat owner or a pet owner, like especially one with no kids and not a ton of successful relationships behind you, you know. You know, why, you know, we get very emotionally invested, you know, in these animals. And I try to think about that because people are like, they're like your kids. Well, they're not really like kids. They're very different than kids, obviously. You know, he's sick. Buster is. He's in intensive care.

And I'm not sitting here thinking I had a whole future planned out for that cat. You know, I wanted to get him into a good kindergarten so he could go to a good elementary school or whatever. And I wanted him to win track meets and stuff. I didn't, you know, I had none of those expectations, but that doesn't make it any less upsetting. It does in a sense, because there are plenty of cats out there and you build a relationship with these things. But what I was thinking about this morning is that, you know, some of us who own animals, that's what we can handle emotionally. That that's not sad. It's not weird. You know, sometimes maybe it's just a reflection of what we know about ourselves. You know, some of us are not built for the child rearing in the long haul.

You know, maybe we could adapt to it, but you know, there's something about, you know, having a pet where it, you know, the emotional connection is, is manageable. You know, it's, it's, it's something we can handle that we, you know, it's relatively consistent and it can last a long time and it's deep and it's honest. And, and it's, it doesn't, it doesn't change a whole lot. And, you know, if you're lucky, and it doesn't change a whole lot, and if you're lucky, you get to grow old with your stupid animals. I mean, I got Monkey and Lafonda in there, and those are the longest relationships I've had.

It's been 15 years, and they've changed, but it's just consistency, and you can take care of them, and the thing about cats more than dogs is that it's not always perfect because you realize they don't really need you that much in some ways. They're not loyal. So you have an understanding, an emotional understanding. And I was building one with Buster and, you know, he was a very unique cat is I'm sorry, is I hope I'm waiting to hear. And but, you know, he fetches. He's unique looking.

He's kind of peculiar and smart. And, you know, he's an energetic guy. He is. We went over and visited him yesterday. You know, and then I'm like, am I that guy? But it's like, yeah, I am that guy. I'm going to go visit my fucking cat at the hospital to see how he's doing. So I don't know. Hoping for the best. I'm hoping for the best. I'll know today. And this is just, this is my life. And it's like,

and this is just you know this is my life and it's like it's different but it's weird i i that moment that i had that sense that like you know this is why we have cats because you know it's what we can handle you know in that way so but i i you know i wasn't going to read this email because i don't know really what it says about me or what it is really. But it has some bearing on what's happening right now. How do I transition to an ad? Shit. Maybe, all right, maybe I should read the email after and pull it together a little here. email after and uh pull it together a little here um and i'll tell you like a lot of you people don't even know it's okay but i you know someone came up to me last night and he's like who's

boomer if you listen all the way to the end of this show and you hear me say boomer lives you know people are like some people come up to you and go how's boomer doing and it's like boomer's not around what does that mean and i, how's Boomer doing? And it's like, Boomer's not around. What does that mean? And I realize that we've been doing this so long, you know, over almost a thousand episodes that some people don't know, you know, what Boomer Lives means. And many of you who have been with me the whole time have been through a lot of stuff with these cats and other cats. When I lived at the old house, you know, it was a little more rural and there was a lot

of cats coming and going. And, you know, I had deaf black cat who for years that deaf weird feral cat that i had i used to feed and he was you know he was he he he ended violently you know with another animal he got he was killed by a coyote but it was a decade of of relationship with this cat that i couldn't even touch. And then there was Big Head, you know, is still around out there. He started coming around. And then there was Scaredy Cat who, you know, got hit by a car eventually, another feral. And then Scaredy 2 was around.

And then there was one that came around the house back at the old house from, you know, like a decade ago and then showed up like eight years later just to die under my house. And then there was another one that used to hang out on my porch, a wild cat that was clearly ill that I had to put down. And all through this, I had Monkey and La Fonda. And then earlier, you know, when I was with my second wife, Mishna, she had Moxie, who was a great cat, fat little cat that used to fetch things. And, you know, in my sadness and anger during the divorce, I made her take Moxie away, which was probably a mistake. I probably could have used Moxie. But Boomer, Boomer, for a little backstory, and this is a transition, you know, this Boomer was a cat.

When I moved from New York to Los Angeles in 2002, I went to a shelter with Mishnah and I looked around at all these old cats. Some look like people just left in places. But there was this one skittish, fucked up, crazy ginger cat. And I'm like, that's my guy. The nut. Couldn't even get him in a cage. I now realize he was a feral cat that someone brought in because of my other cats were feral. But Boomer eventually somewhat got socialized.

And he was with me for like, I don't know, almost a decade. We moved him to the other house. He used to pee on everything and then he was outside. So for years, you know, Boomer sort of held up the porch and was out there with the wild things. And he was a very unique cat. He had a very sweet voice. And I kind of regret having put him outside, but he just peed on everything. He peed where we ate, where we, my shoes, everywhere. So he lived outside and he lived out there for years. And at some point he disappeared. And I don't know what happened to him. That's sometimes, I think that's harder. Sometimes it's better. I just assume that maybe he went on to a better

life and that's where Boomer Liv comes from. I guess he disappeared probably like eight years ago, but, uh, but that's where that comes from that's a short history of me and the cats it is what it is and you know this is life so i i didn't know if i was going to read this letter but i will because it's strange for me sometimes being a public personality because i'm not a huge celebrity or anything but i am a public personality and i and people who know me or you know they now know my work from a lot of different areas with acting or whatnot and I don't really know what they're recognizing me from or whatever but uh you know I as I've always tried to be gracious and but it is sort of interesting the world we live in that

we're all pretty accessible and you know things get through to us you know i didn't mean for this to have this impact but but i it when i read this when it came in it it it was it was the first thing that sort of connected me with how i was feeling because you get when you have a sick you know anything and and you're trying to take care of it and you're in that panic of trying to to save something or help something or uh you know anything and and you're trying to take care of it and you're in that panic of trying to to save something or help something or uh you know make it okay you know you're not thinking about really yourself you're not thinking about how you're being seen or others or anything so i got this email and it really connected me with what i was feeling uh because i i stuff things down you know i stuff stuff, I don't, I really try to.

If I'm going to cry, I'm going to do it alone. And that sometimes is here on this microphone. I'm alone right now, believe it or not, I am. So the email, lessons learned at the vet. Hi, Mark, I've been listening since 2010, not in a dramatic 180 kind of way, of course. Radio fandom runs in my family. My dad had Gene Shepard, and I get a lot out of your show. It's a beacon in the dark. Last night,

I was with my daughter at the vet with a little dog we'd adopted from a shelter the day before. That very sweet dog surprised us all and turned out to be very sick. While we were waiting in the lobby to talk with the vet, I knew the dog wasn't going to make it. Anyway, that's when you walked in. You were with your lady, I guess, who seemed real cool. I could tell you were both totally focused on care for your cat, and I could tell it was a tough night for you, too. I'm in show business. You're one of my heroes, but I'm not an approacher, so I felt a little sheepish just sitting there witnessing the scene. But what I saw was a big deal. I struggle with the business.

I struggle with illusions and mistakes, honesty, and yeah, even booze. And you've narrated those struggles for me, giving them context and turn them into gold. I put you on a pedestal for that. If you don't have it all figured out, at least you've reached a level of self-awareness that defines your ultra successful art. I also love to see you on the screen because I identify with you. Just a matter of shared traits. There are lots of us. You are a massive personality. That night at the vet, I saw something different. something different. I saw a man who cared about his pet. Someone expressing unconditional love. I saw someone coping with the bullshit of medical forms and responsibilities, waiting in waiting rooms, just hoping your little buddy wasn't suffering. I think it's a beautiful thing you were doing, just totally human. And it helped me deal with the loss we suffered last night when we knew that our little cricket's short life was over.

I want to say thank you for all that you do, for caring about your cat and everyone else you've spoken to in that intimate space between our ears where your show is piped right in. You've made us all feel better, and that's all the more profound knowing you are a real goddamn human being. Thanks man. A thousand times for being you, Ivan. Well, I do my best buddy. And I'm sorry for your loss, for your new little friend. And, uh, and, uh, you know, I gotta tell you, man, this, this email really kind of, I guess sometimes it takes, it's weird. You know, you have this, you know, an outsider view and, you know, I'm just caught up in it. But, you know, I think I'm feeling more feelings for what you're going through, actually. But it's good.

It's good. Fuck. I don't know. Fuck. Okay. Tony Shalhoub. Great guy. And the second season of Marvelous Miss Maisel is now streaming on Amazon Prime.

And, you know, it was just a pleasure talking to him. This is me and Tony. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you.

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right yeah i watched like i watched the whole first season i've watched like six of the new ones so you've seen the cat skills yes yeah yeah that was fun no i i i i'm i'm surprised i like it because it's a very specific miss mazel is a very specific type of show but it's so specific and it's so they're so attentive to detail and there's such a rhythm to the writing and it's like it and i'm a comic so there i get very moved by the whole thing it it works for me oh good i i really like it and i like your character really has a lot to do this season. Yeah. They really boosted my part.

It's weird because how are you finding people responding to the show in general? Well, the show is blowing up. It's crazy. It is. We did a whole press junket prior to the premiere in early December in New York. Yeah. Right after that and before the premiere hit, we went to Milan. Yeah.

And we did another press junket for all of the European press and outlets. Uh-huh. And when we were there, then it really started to become obvious that it was catching fire around the world. Globally. Crazy.

Yeah. And we actually had people interviewing us you know uh the italian press of course was there people from germany spain france yeah and we were on doing phoners with people in india and no kidding how is this working in india um they seem to really have embraced the show. They dropped these episodes, you know, all at the same time everywhere. Our premiere date was December 5th, I think. And, you know, in the old days

when I did Network and even Cable, you know, you did a season and that aired and then two years later or something, that season would air in Europe. Elsewhere, right. And it would go to Far East. It'd get bought and syndicated. Whatever,

in Russia. But, you know, they were always, I would get letters and things. They were always two or three years behind us.

Right, right. And now it's, everything just goes everywhere at the same moment. Well, I just like the, like, I don't,

like, the reason I say I'm surprised I like the show is because I don't watch a lot of things and it's such a, I don't like the reason i say i'm surprised i like the show because i don't watch a lot of things and it's such a um either it's such a specific sort of world and the the device of it to to sort of put a feminist voice you know in that period you know which i i think is the the device of it as a comic because i know that comics of that ilk were not women then right and they they are now yeah and then to sort of set this in and it's just the writing is so tight how i mean well

i think that's the thing about it too is that it takes place in the late 50s yeah and so i think there's a a need for us to escape you, for viewers to escape the present day madness. But at the same time, it's not just a nostalgia piece. It has a modern sensibility. Right. It sort of bridges the two periods, I think, in a smart way. Yeah. And also, like, and that's the thing.

It's like you're not watching. It's nostalgia in one way, but the sort of attention to detail of the period really goes a long way. I mean, it just seems like every frame, including the dialogue and the look and the pace and the costumes and everything else, they're like jewel boxes. I mean, they're meticulous in terms of their attention to detail. And it's heightened somewhat. It's very heightened. We're not trying to paint an absolutely authentic reproduction of that period. It's more almost people have referred to it kind of more like a musical in a way.

That's right. It's kind of bright and colorful and energy. And there is a lot of music just inherent in it. And it's written in a kind of rhythm. Yeah. It has that heightened feel. Right. You're not sitting there going like, it wasn't really like this.

Comedy. Right. But it's not like, I mean, you've done three camera stuff. It's not a joke to joke thing, really. No. So, like, it's one of these hybrids where you realize that this is not supposed to be realism. Right. And you realize it's heightened, but because of the shininess of it and the pace of it and also the emotional range of the thing.

Right. You love it. The stakes are very high. It is like a musical. It's not a sitcom. No. It is like a musical a little bit. It is like a musical. It's not a sitcom. No. It is like a musical a little bit. It is.

Yeah. I think that's, you know, there's choreographed what almost, they're not actual dance numbers, but they feel like- Oh, were people coming and going? Moving through rooms and turning and spinning. And those are long master shots, long takes without a lot of cuts. And those are rehearsed almost like a play. I mean, they really have to be precise with the steadicam and all of the background.

And that's a very deliberate. But as an actor, I mean, that's, that's one of the, it's like a play. It's like doing a musical that you're, the requirement isn't just like hit your mark, do your line.

No, you've got a dance number to do in a way like that scene, just even in that bit where you guys are rearranging the furniture in the Catskills cabin, the things coming out, things going in there. There's a, and that's just a lead

into the episode. Yeah. The camera lays back and stays in that wide master. Right, but there's all that stuff. It goes on for four minutes. It's fantastic. Does it remind you of doing,

you've done musicals. Well, I did one musical this past year, The Band's Visit, which is not a conventional musical. Oh, you didn't, like when you were starting out, you didn't do any?

Yeah, I mean, maybe when I was in school and you know in theater i did one or two but i was not a musical guy yeah but um but it this does have a this has does have a feel like we're doing a play every week i bet i bet it does and how much i'm curious about this because like i'm on a show yeah it's it's a great show. Simultaneous to yours. Thank you. But I'm just curious in terms of her writing, like Amy Sherman Palladino. Is it Amy Sherman? Amy Sherman, yeah. Yeah, her dad was a comic, right?

He was. It's not Alan, Don Sherman. Don Sherman. Yeah. You can actually see him on YouTube. He's really funny. He was a guy who, what I've seen of him, he was on a cruise ship.

Oh, that kind of guy. But he was a Borscht Belt guy. Sure. He was coming up with Jack Carter and like Cruise Ship. Oh, that kind of guy. But he was a Borscht Belt guy. Sure. He was coming up with, you know, Jack Carter and all those guys. Freddie Roman and Jim Murray. They were all,

Jan Murray, all those guys, when I was a kid, we used to see on Ed Sullivan. Sure. And he was rising, rising, rising. And he just didn't quite,

you know, Don Trim did quite break through like those other guys did. But he was, you can watch him and he's really funny. There's a lot of those guys, man. There's a lot of those.

She grew up in that world. Yeah. Oh, really? So she really knows it. Well, that's what she's kind of writing about. And her mother was, and still is, actually. She's still kicking. A kind of cabaret singer, you know, dancer.

Oh, really? She's amazing. She's in her 80s. She's still doing it? Yeah. So, like, my question is, really? She's amazing. She's in her 80s. She's still doing it? My question is, how much writing is still going on when you shoot? Like, how many times do you read through it? We do a table read for each episode.

There's like a hundred people in the room. Really? Oh, yeah. All the designers are Amazon people. No kidding. It's a big room in Brooklyn, New York. But that's it. We read it. We read it once.

Yeah. There's changes. Some changes are made. Yeah. Not a lot. Doesn't change drastically. Uh-huh. And then we start, you know, there's whatever location scouts they have to do. And then we just hit the ground running.

Yeah. We do them in 10 days. 10 days each episode. Yeah, but they're full hour. You know, there's no commercials or anything, so it's a full 60 minutes of craziness. And everything's on location? Well, we have standing sets on the soundstage

at Steiner Studios near Brooklyn Navy Yard. So what do you got? You got the apartment there, and you got the nightclub there? Mm-hmm. We got B. Altman's, some of got? You got the apartment there and you got the nightclub there? Mm-hmm. We got B. Altman's, some of the interior of B. Altman's there. The basement. Uh-huh.

And, you know, then they build sets for each individual. There's certain, you know, permanent standing sets. Yeah. And then there's some what they call swing sets where they just, you know, build them and tear them down. Right, right. So some of the Catskill stuff, we shot a lot of the Catskills on location, but some of the interiors,

like the breakfast room and all that, was done on the stage. You shot on location in the Catskills, but you had to build one of those camps. They're not around anymore, right? No, no, no. That was there. Really?

They found a place. Yeah. That's still there. It's not, I don't know that we were actually in the catskills that we were a little west of the catskills in a town called deposit new york and um at this resort that's really locked in time i mean it's it's still functioning it's crazy yeah it's beautiful i mean in fact when they visited the uh they visited this this location the year before we shot season two, they discovered they had old bowling alleys.

So they wrote a bowling alley scene. They wrote the episodes to the location. Around the place. Right. Absolutely. It became a character. Absolutely right. And it suited, I mean, this is a place that is just so beautiful. And so it has never been, not to speak disparagingly of it, but it's never been upgraded or, you know, kind of modernized. So it really feels like you're back there.

Really? Uh-huh. So, and you shot in France? We shot in two episodes in Paris. Have you been there a lot? I had not spent that much time in Paris. I'd been to France a number of times, but we were there for three weeks,

and it was heaven. Yeah? Do you speak French? No. No. That was the French no, by the way. Not the English no. Very little, but enough to order the right wine

and the right kind of, you know, foie gras. Yeah, so your character's not that far from you in that way. Right, right. It was great. We were in Paris in March of last year. Yeah. And some of, we had brought some of our crew with us, and there were a lot of French crew too.

And it was just an amazing experience. Oh, that's great. And they were into it. They loved the show from season one. They did? Sure. It's exciting, man. It's exciting to be part of an international phenomenon.

Well, I feel like I was very lucky, and I sort of stepped onto the right bus here. Uh-huh. What was the audition process? Did they pick you? They knew they wanted you? They called me. I didn't read.

They just asked me if I was interested, and I read the pilot. We only had the pilot to go on. And there wasn't much of my character read the pilot. We only had the pilot to go on. And it wasn't much, there wasn't much of my character in the pilot. I mean, there was a few scenes. Yeah. But they assured me

that it was going to be expanded and I love the, I love that period, first of all. And I like the writing and made me laugh and so I figured, you know, how bad could it be? Yeah, I didn't know

what was going to happen like in, in terms of your character. Because the weird thing about the show is that when you first start watching it, you think it's broad. You know, you think the characters are broad. Right. And then, you know, you realize it sort of sneaks up on you that they're not really. That there's a lot of depth and there's a lot of definition. And I imagine a lot of that you guys bring to the roles. But they're not, you know, in the first few episodes, I was like, well, what are they going to do with Tony, you know?

And then like in this season and half of the last season, you really have an emotional depth to the thing. You know, you're not just, you know, this presence. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it definitely, with all of us, I think, the complexity of the characters has expanded. Yeah. Because her life, when her husband leaves her

in the first episode of the first season, you know, her life is impacted and there's all this upheaval of course but as it takes a while for um you know uh for the in the story to see the the ripple effect of that upheaval yeah to the ripple effect to all the other characters everyone's life changes in in this story to a degree especially the family yeah and and joel's family you know the the mazels um you know the people who run the garment kevin pollock oh my god and what's her name caroline aaron genius genius yeah yeah um so so we see

the ripple effect of this one action and even the ripple effect to joel or her ex her husband and how and his regret and his kind of disconnection from from you know from what was his life yeah and he's everyone sort of seems to be kind of landing and he's not landing he's just kind of floating out there doesn't know what to do he's having a gigantic identity crisis yeah so so it's good it's good it's not just about this one character and also like the the jewish middle class of that time is a very specific thing you know there's like right so that's like one generation from immigrants most of them sure and this is the first sort of uh this is the first generation to kind of find their place but you didn't like you didn't grow up jewish no i grew

up in a lebanese american family my father was an immigrant yeah uh but um is there a similarity in the semitic uh like i oh absolutely you know You know, I mean, you're of desert people. Technically, we're Semites. Yeah, I know, right. You know, it's really very close. How'd you grow up? What was your religion? Well, we were Catholic, I guess.

I mean, you know, just sort of, that was the, that we grew up in a, you know, we went to parochial school and all that. Where was this? In Green Bay, Wisconsin. Green Bay, Wisconsin. Yeah. An unlikely place for an enclave of Lebanese people.

Right. I mean, was there a community? Mostly they were my relatives. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, you know, it was a smaller community of Lebanese. How'd your old man end up there? You know,

I asked that question many times. Yeah. Never got a straight answer. You know, it was like all immigrants, you know, the people whatever ethnicity they were of, you know, people came to New York or came to Boston or whatever

or some of them went to South America. And, you know, they just kind of moved west because they were following whatever, wherever the work was. And when a certain area or certain region, you know, the factories or whatever filled up and people had to keep moving and somehow they ended up there.

I don't know. Do you know why he left Lebanon? Oh, sure. He left because, right, it was right after the First World War. His parents had died there. He was the youngest of five. He had four siblings. And it was really, really tough times there.

And the parents had passed away within a year or two of each other. And they were sent for by relatives already living here. Because everybody, you had to be sponsored, of course. You did. But they came through Ellis Island. My dad, you know, they were orphans. How old was he? He was eight.

Oh, wow. The oldest on the boat was only like 17. And they came together. They didn't speak English. They didn't. All five siblings came. Uh, I believe the first one was already here because she had gone to school. Uh, she was the eldest and she had gone to school in France, I guess.

But, and so she had made her way here and, but she couldn't have been maybe even 20 and, you know, but of the ones that were coming over on the boat, the oldest was, I think, 17 or 18. And my dad was eight. And they came and landed at Ellis Island and took, I guess, a train to the relatives that they met there in Wisconsin, well, no one family could have the wherewithal to take them all in. Sure. So they were kind of split up. You know, split up. Well, this one would go with this relative and this one would go this one.

But in the neighborhood? Relatively in the same community, but not in the same household. So it was, and then they had to, you know assimilate and learn english and all that and um it's while trying to hold on to their you know heritage too so yeah like like the immigrant experience yeah so um wow green bay and then it gets cold there and then they my dad bought season tickets and i still have them and it's sort of happy ending are you serious oh yes i've ate if you ever want to go yeah i mean forever you've had them since your father well i i had my they were yeah passed down and my father i think even had 16 but anyway somehow i ended up with eight and um i i try to go to at least a game or two but when i can't go other family members still

live there you grew up with loving football well you had to it was mandatory oh really i mean i grew up in the lombardi years you know that was all right it was right it was like the glory it was like going to church it was fantastic really yeah i'm not i'm not i was never geared towards sports and i think i missed something you never got that gene i did not it has to be it has to be passed down to you behaviorally by a parent or an uncle or a sibling. Well, I think my dad, he was a big guy. And he played football in high school. Yeah.

So that was kind of part of our thing. And he loved going to the games. And it was kind of a thing. Take his friends and his customers and his- How many kids? There were 10 of us. That's crazy. I was number nine of 10.

You were the ninth one? Yeah. So you have- Second youngest. You have siblings that are, how old? Wow. My oldest sister, I think, just turned 79. Wow.

She probably wouldn't want me to say that. Sorry, Sherry. And you know all of them? You get along well? oldest sister i think just turned 79 wow she probably wouldn't want me to say that sorry sherry and you know all of them you're get along well and we all get together you know for a week in the summer we we have family reunions we're all very we still stay close you know i mean we live in some are still in wisconsin but the two sisters in atlanta and a sister in sacramento we're all a brother in denver we're all over the place but But we stayed close and try to, you know. So now our kids, we try to keep them close. It's a lot, huh?

It's a handful. I bet. So 10 kids, that's crazy. That's really Catholic. It was bedlam. Yeah. Total pandemonium. And how did your old man support 10 kids?

Good thing about being a family and family of 10 is you you you have a built-in audience right always right you know you know which is probably why i chose this oh yeah uh how did my dad do it i don't know you know he was a really he was an independent businessman he just figured it out did you know we weren't we were you know very middle class yeah lower middle class, I guess you'd say. But we never really were, it's not like we were wanting for too much. What was the business? He was a meat peddler.

He sold sausage. He bought from this little German sausage company in Sheboygan, which was about 40 miles away. And then he had a route and he built it up and he sold to stores and various places. And he built up his own business. And here's the cool part. The meat business. Well, yeah, meat.

And it was great. You know, it wasn't like commercially made. It was like the Oscar Mayer thing. So he found this German sausage maker who- There were a lot of them in Wisconsin. Sure, I know, yeah. But they were doing the real thing you know not they eventually they all got kind of yeah you know kind of crushed by the larger companies right but at this period you know

you know people were it was kind of he believed it was quality stuff he was a really good salesman i guess and he just here was the cool part, though. He, I remember this when I was growing up. He worked four days a week. He could have built it up and worked six days a week and made a lot more money, probably. But he had a lot of kids, and he was a real, you know, he valued his time and his family and his other relatives and so forth.

So he figured out a way to work just as many hours, worked hard, but had, you know, those three days. It was great. He knew, like he knew what life was supposed to be. Yeah. And he always told us too, he said, you know, he was a big proponent of being your own boss. Yeah. And not having to work for the man. Right.

And he always had sausage. And we always ate. We had a lot of sausage. Yeah. We had it for breakfast. It was just, well, we need something, we just go out to the truck and open a box, boom. Yeah. Was it other meats or just sausage?

You know, it was like all different kinds. Yeah. And then they got into like, he opened a little shop that was like a mail order thing. It was kind of like candies, cheese, and sausage. And it was kind of like one of those things. So he had a cheese guy too. Yeah, he was, well, it was Wisconsin. Yeah, I know, exactly.

It was everywhere. He tripped over it in the street. But it was, yeah, he was a pretty cool guy and your mom did she work she uh well she worked her ass off but she was right thank you mother of 10 and yeah man when i think about what she did i she she was amazing i mean she was just running up and down stairs doing laundry line, you know. She was... She was... She kept it all together.

Yeah. Imagine cooking for 12 people for that many years. It's crazy. Crazy. And she was really exhausted. And then having to love them as well. Yeah. She was loving

and she, you know, I remember these days when I don't know how this woman did it. I mean, my wife and I, we had two kids

and we had help and we couldn't figure it out. You know what I mean? We screwed up everything. But she made our, she made our Halloween costumes and did our school projects and I mean, I just can't even imagine it

yeah and plus that was in the day when you know there was a lot of there wasn't a lot of permanent press okay right so you know there was a she was ironing when she wasn't cooking and doing laundry and she was ironing no help god's sake i mean i don't get it's crazy it's crazy yeah and i think one of my early memories one of my early memories i think i was like in first grade yeah and we were um you know my homework was to um you know to like read aloud to my to my mother for you know 15 minutes or whatever and uh i just i remember sitting on the couch after dinner and i was you know 15 minutes or whatever and uh i just i remember sitting on the couch after dinner and i was you know reading very still stilted thing and reading my book to her and um at one point i looked up and she was just fast asleep she's sitting you know sitting straight up with her

glasses on yeah ow yeah and i just thought of course you know i'm like number nine for god's sake yeah maybe she listened to my older siblings books but and i didn't you know i wasn't like wasn't upsetting it was just like yeah yeah that's all i said jumped off the couch and went about my business let her sleep nine so she had the hang of it by the time you got there well she was over it. Oh, over it. I mean, I think I got away with a lot of things my older siblings didn't. How many was, what's the breakdown between men and boys and girls?

Six girls, four boys. Wow. Yeah. And did anyone else end up in the entertainment industry? Sure. I have a sister, an older sister, Susan, who's actually on Stranger Things. She's Flo. She's the sheriff's you know oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's great she's great she's been a theater actor forever

and done film and stuff and now she lives in atlanta and uh so um you know i guess you two somewhere in the blood yeah just you two though in the show business yeah well there's do i have a couple other siblings that do it kind kind of, you know, community theater stuff. Right. Just for fun. Anybody in the meat business? No.

No. Well, I'm in the meat business, aren't I? I'm a piece of meat. Yeah. You move around. Move the meat around. Yeah. How does it begin, though?

Like, when do you start doing the acting? In high school? Were you a football guy no i wasn't i tried to be a football guy and i got my ass kicked um yeah i did a little in high school and um you know college i guess where'd you go to college i went well i started university of wisconsin in green bay but then i moved uh i transferred to uh portland maine i went to the university of maine in portland which happened to have a really good theater department but you Green Bay but then I moved uh I transferred out to uh Portland Maine I went to the University of Maine in Portland which happened to have a really good theater department but you didn't go for that

no I didn't know what I was doing when I moved why'd you pick that school because I needed to get out of Green Bay yeah and I needed to get I needed to have a little bit of a you know change and shake up and I I was when I first went to college, to be completely honest, I wasn't really pursuing anything. I was, I was just kind of buying time and avoiding getting a job. Right. As many. And what, what, what years were these or were they, what was it?

Crazy times in the country? What year? Like you're what? 10 years older than me. I was, uh, it was in the, I went to college in the seventies, early mid seventies. It was, you know, Watergate was happening in the mid 70s. Yeah. And the war was trying to wind down.

But I was, you know, I was, when I was a senior in high school and I was 18. Yeah. We had to draft, you know, lottery. Yeah. So that was still scary. And what happened with you? Well, I got a, my number wasn't really that high, frankly, but it was, um, this was 72. Yeah.

And my number was, I think it was just like around a hundred or 110. It wasn't high. Yeah. But that year, because things were beginning to draw down. And there was protests, right? I mean, it was. Oh yeah. That all started in the late sixties.

Yeah. And there was protests, right? Oh, yeah. That all started in the late 60s. Yeah. I think my year, they were only going up to 75, and my number was just over 100. But the year before, they were definitely into the 100, into mid-100s. So it was a little bit of a nail-biter.

And none of your siblings had to go? My older brother, Michael, was in Vietnam. He was? In the 60s. Oh, yeah yeah he's about 12 years older than me so that would have been he did not he don't know I think he got drafted or he enlisted whatever but yes sir he was over there luckily it was he he was right in Saigon yeah but it was before Saigon fell so he was not seeing a lot of combat.

But it was, my mother was just, she was a wreck during that whole. I bet. A year period. Yeah. And he fared all right? He came home. Yeah. We did all right.

Yeah. So you got, so you didn't have to go to war. So you went to Maine. Which is kind of like going to war. No. Maine was fantastic. It's pretty. Portland was so happening right then.

And you were just sort of biding your time. But I was, then I just, you know, they just, I did more theater and I just discovered that that was, you know, it might be my strong suit. Were you like a long haired guy? Were you doing experimental stuff? A little fro. Yeah. A Lebanese fro?

Yeah. As opposed to the Jew fro? A Leb fro. A Leb fro. Yeah. You Lebanese fro. Yeah. As opposed to the Jew fro. A Leb fro. A Leb fro. Yeah. You still got it. Oh, please. It was a lot thicker then.

Uh-huh. But yeah, I just, no, we were doing, you know, whatever we could do. And the school, as I said, had a really good theater department. And so I was afforded a lot of opportunities. Yeah. And then I went to the Yale Drama School. From there, I was fortunate enough to get accepted to Yale. Do you remember what you auditioned with?

Oh, sure. Really? What was it? We had to do two pieces of modern contemporary music. Modern and classic, yeah. And they each were two minutes long, which is not long. Yeah. I did Malvolio from Twth night i remember and i did a

piece from a pinter play called the homecoming the homecoming yeah i did a lenny a lenny monologue oh yeah those are good nice and dark dark yeah dark and funny and twisted so um but you know and then i i got in, crazily enough. Was that a two-year program? Three-year master's program. Yeah, I mean, I auditioned for it, but I was not in any way prepared.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I didn't, it was all very last minute and it was ridiculous. Well, mine was ridiculous in the sense that it was the only school I auditioned for,

which was stupid. You should audition for five or 10. Yeah, was it because you're like, if I get in for, which was stupid. You should audition for five or 10. Was it because you're like, if I get in there, it was meant to be? No, it was because I was stupid and didn't even know. I came into it almost by,

it was just a fluke. I didn't know anything about it, but a friend of mine's girlfriend who graduated the year before us had gotten in there. She had graduated the year before us, had gotten in there. She had graduated, you know, the year before us. And she had gotten in, and she told me, you know, this would be a really good place where you should try.

I had no idea where Yale was. I didn't even know where New Haven was. I didn't know anything. I just wasn't. It wasn't that far from where you were at. You're lucky you weren't in Wisconsin. No, no, it was not that far. But I'm telling you, when I was a senior in college,

I was in, even though I was doing plays, I was in a kind of a fog, in a deep fog. I don't know what, I can't even explain it. But you wanted to act. I knew I wanted to act, but to be completely honest, Mark, I didn't know that there was such a thing as a graduate drama program. I just, it didn't,

it was not on my radar. Right. Nothing was on my radar. My radar was a blank screen. Were you lost? I was just, I was an idiot. Ah.

Yes, lost. Yeah. Lost idiot. And so had she not gone there and told me about it and encouraged me. Yeah. I would have,

you know, I don't know where I'd be. Did it have the reputation it has now i mean i guess it was meryl streep had just graduated you know three four years before that and so it was yeah i mean it had a reputation i didn't know what to what i was doing or what to expect what'd you graduate college with what was your degree in it was theater it was yeah i didn't know what i was gonna do i mean you know there were a few opportunities in maine for professional or semi-professional theater but i assumed me you know what would i do teach or right yeah end up working in a bar so did you like when you were acting in college what did you feel like like this you were meant to do that i mean did you like did you relish it? I loved it, but I didn't believe or think that it could be a viable career. Right.

I just thought, well, this is fun and I probably would love to do this as a hobby. Right. That's a reasonable thought to have. Sure. But the fact that you didn't prepare anything else is, you know what I mean? You said, like, this can't be a job, but. I had no plan B. I had no plan A.

Yeah. I had nothing. I was very, very lucky. So you sat there and you auditioned for what? Three people, right? Three or four people. Yeah. And then I left the room.

Yeah. And there were hundreds of kids waiting. No kids. They auditioned people in New Haven. They auditioned people in three other cities. And they take like nine? They took, my year, I think they took 15 or 16. Uh-huh. Out of hundreds.

And now thousands that audition. Really? Oh, yeah. Thousands. That's crazy. But then there was like 700, 800 that auditioned. And we had 16 in my class. Yeah.

But that was a place where we thought when we were going over there that we were going to have a life in the theater. That was what it was geared to, not for... I mean, and then when I left Yale, I went to a regional theater in Cambridge, Massachusetts. How much of what you learned there

sort of defines how you approach the acting now? Or does it all just kind of... No, I think it definitely informs it because it was all about doing characters and doing things that weren't close to yourself and transforming and trying to stretch. And my career has kind of been about doing characters. Yeah.

I guess. And the structure of it was like, that was one of those schools where you had to, you know, do sword fighting and dancing and... Oh, yeah, movement classes. We had stage combat. We had voice classes. We had, you know, scene study and text analysis.

What we didn't have, thank Christ, was actual papers to write and tests to take. We didn't have that. It was all conservatory. And it was the Yale Repertory Theater was there, so it was a conservatory situation. Students were being fed into professional productions at the Rep, and some of those professionals

were teachers at the school. And and that was in some of those professionals were teachers at the school and so what was it and then you started working shortly after or were you working during school were you in the yell rep did you get in i i worked some at the yell rep i mean we were you know we're exactly getting paid but we're right doing plays there and then i after that uh gail i went to cambridge and i worked in a regional theater repertory theater art that ART? That's right. Yeah, that place is, I lived in Boston for years. And I remember- I wonder if we were there at the same time.

Well, I was in college there from like, you know, 81 to 87. I was there 80 to 84. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I saw any productions during that point, but then I went back and started my comedy career there in like 87, 88. And, but I remember, who was there?

Who's the guy from the Mark? What was that show with Malky? You remember? Oh, yeah, Mark Lynn Baker. Yeah, Mark Lynn Baker. Mark was there because Mark was a year ahead of me at Yale, and then a lot of us went up to ART. Mark's still a very dear friend and lives in New York.

I just remember him being in everything when I was seeing him there. He was and is an amazing theater actor. So you were there for three years? I was? Yeah. I was there for four. Four seasons.

At ART. Oh, yeah. Living in Cambridge. Living in Cambridge. I lived in Somerville before it was cool. I spent many, many nights lost in Somerville. Yeah. Do you know where I worked?

I worked at a place called, do you remember the shopping center, the garage? Yeah, of course. The coffee connection where you'd go and you'd get the French press coffee. Yeah, beautiful. I worked there. I remember the garage. Yeah, I was there. I was there.

You probably came in and had coffee. It was over by like St. Over by, what is that? Mount Auburn? Yeah, I was there. I was there. You probably came in and had coffee. It was over by like St. Over by, what is that? Mount Auburn? Yeah, yeah. There were two entrances. There was one next to 40 Dunster Street. Yes.

Yeah, and there was an entrance right there. And you could go in the garage, which used to be a parking garage. And it was all the stores. But I was working at a coffee restaurant before Starbucks. And they'd serve, if you were going to have more than a cup to go,'d serve it in a french press very high-end oh yeah you kind of so very very ahead of its time yeah i because i did stuff at the hasty pudding too you know when yes our our our new play festival was always there every year so and were you doing uh mostly what traditional stuff or did you do any like crazy shit we did a lot of crazy stuff yeah i mean

we did uh well we did everything that was the beauty of of art you know we did some classics and reimagined classics yeah spear and chekhov of course and um but we also did you know lee brewer came up from new york he was part of mabu mines it's a very very avant-garde director yeah and we had directors from england and, you know, from Eastern Europe. Uh-huh. And so it was a real broad, you know, kind of range of approaches and material.

And so you got to experience that. I mean, that's the... And I think that was really good because it didn't get locked into just one kind of school of thought or one way of working. Yeah. All these different demands being made on us.

And you could, you know, you didn't have to be, we were members of a company. And so you didn't have to be afraid of making a fool of yourself. You were, you know, you could really take risks. Yeah. And so like that was your gig. You were a theater actor.

That was what my life was because that's what we were trained for. Even when I moved to New York after Boston, I did, you know, pretty much nothing but theater for another six years. So it was like 10 solid years of doing theater. And once I was in New York, okay,

then I would do like a soap opera, you know, a day player on a soap or a, or I do a episode of such and such. And then I, it was York, okay, then I would do like a soap opera, you know, a day player on a soap or I'd do an episode of such and such. It was pre-procedural though. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Then I went into, you know, like do a little part in a movie here.

What was the first one of those? The first one of those I was completely cut out of. Yeah. That was a fun story. But you still got paid for it. I did, but it was heartburn. It was Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson directed by Mike Nichols. Mike Nich a fun story. But you still got paid for it. I did, but it was heartburn. It was Meryl Streep and Jack Nichols. Sure.

Directed by Mike Nichols. Mike Nichols, yeah. And I had a great little part in it and then was completely cut out of it. But I don't really want to go too far down that rabbit hole. Why? Because it still hurts. It does? No, no. It was a learning experience, character building.

Uh-huh. Then I did a quick change. It was a learning experience, character building. Uh-huh. Then I did a quick change. What was it like working with Nichols, though? I mean, did you have enough of a part to have a relationship with him on set?

Unbelievable. Yeah? And also, he brought me in to do, you know, the few years later. Oh, God, you know, I can't remember

the name of the film. It was with travolta the one about the kind of clinton candidate oh oh yeah yeah yeah yeah what was that called primary primary colors yeah and and i would do readings for mike nichols all the time and what makes a guy like that you know who had done theater and done these amazing movies and was one of those guys that really kind of defined himself in theater and then moved to film and made a mark on film in a very experimental way early on. So what was it about him as a director that was compelling and different

than working with other directors? Well, I think with Mike, you just knew that, first of all, he had all of this body of work behind him. And you have a guy with this sort of mind. He was so intelligent, so sophisticated, so well-read, so well-traveled, so everything. And with Mike, you just always trusted that he has this amazing, gigantic overview

of not of just what he's doing but of the context with in which that all sits yeah and so it's it's there was always you always got the sense that it was about more than just what it was about right right and that his his agenda or his his objective was was much more far-reaching than just that piece of material. So you trusted and respected. Oh, my God.

And he was funny and warm. And, yeah, so it was an honor to be working with him the few times I did. I never got to do a play with him, though I always would have loved to have done that. Do you prefer theater theater you know and it's a weird question but it's so immediate and it's so exciting in a way yeah i get asked that a lot um i don't i i can't i mean it's where i

sort of started a different job it's a different discipline and all of that. But the truth is that I base my decisions and also what I like on the material, not the venue. Right. Because I've been in bad plays, bad productions. Sure. And there's nothing more torturous than that. But you're stuck in it. And that's been true of film and television where you're just in things and just the fit is just not right but you're whereas if you're in a slot you know and you're feeling like you're in the right role in the right material at the right time it doesn't matter

if it's it's tv or or if you're just working on a street corner it's just it's uh it's all about that right but there is a difference when because you know when you're working in film or tv cut oh yeah yeah like like i'm just like in like i haven't done much theater but i do stand-up and now that i'm acting a bit i i realize that you know the trick of of of doing that type of acting is to really make the time on camera you know immersive like how you know, immersive, like how, you know, that there's so much time in between things. Absolutely.

That it must be a whole other discipline to sort of realize like, all right, I'm about to work for two minutes. That's right. And, and when it's a very, you know, when it's a, it's an emotional scene or something where you really have to load up before you do it, it's tricky because, you know, when it's an emotional scene or something where you really have to load up before you do it, it's tricky because, you know, they tell you we're going to do this scene in half an hour.

And so you're gearing yourself up for that moment in 30 minutes. Yeah. And then there's some delay. Right, three hours later. Yeah, if you're lucky. Yeah. Or we're going to do this in an hour

and then, oh, we change it. We're doing it right now. What? I didn't really load up here. Yeah, yeah. So you're always at the mercy of the production. But if it's an emotional scene, that's the challenging thing of movies and television because they're all shot out of sequence.

Yeah, I know. I mean, the worst story imaginable happened to me. Yeah. I was doing a film a number of years ago. It was The Siege with Denzel Washington. And this is a movie about a terrorist attack in New York prior to 9-11. And I'm playing an FBI, a Lebanese-American FBI agent. And I'm Denzel's partner.

And Ed Zwick is the director. And it's really heavy duty, great script and everything. Big Fox, 20th Century Fox movie. Yeah. Annette Bening and everything. I was doing a movie just before that. I was doing Civil Action out in LA

and the Siege was going to shoot in New York and I was supposed to have a break of about two or three weeks between movies. That almost never happens where I get back-to-back jobs. Yeah. This was a rare thing and it happened. So I had this thing. It was all scheduled.

We're going to finish Civil Action and then three weeks later, I was going to go to New York and start on The Siege. Totally different character, totally different everything. Well, we got behind on Civil Action. It just, you know, we lose a day and here and there and then, oh my God, and we're behind a week. Now we're behind on civil action. It just, you know, we lose a day and here and there. And then, oh, my God. And we were behind a week.

Now we're behind two weeks. And then it looked like I wasn't even going to finish by the time they needed me in New York. It was really like right down to the wire. Yeah. And they were almost going to have to recast me in the siege. All that because of the schedule was a nightmare. And then. Anxiety on both levels. And this production is on both levels and this production is freaking out

and this production is freaking out and i'm freaking out my agent's freaking out so finally they just you know a lot of back and forth between the producers and they were they hammered it out and i literally finished a scene on my last scene on civil action six at night LA, they drove me to the airport. I take the red-eye to New York, and I start that next night. Oh, my God. I start the siege, and my first scene, because of the scheduling jumble,

my first scene is my big emotional scene in the movie where I'm at the, this is kind of like an internment camp where all these Arabs have been rounded up and martial law has been declared and all that stuff. And I'm looking for my son who's been rounded up and put in a pen and it's the middle of winter for Christ's sake on Randolph Island or one of these places. And it's like my big peak emotional scene of the movie.

It's my first day. And I've just taken the red eye. You know? And Denzel's there. And there's army trucks. And there's thousands of extras. And I'm like, oh, my God. I haven't even met this kid.

I haven't met the kid who plays my son, who's like a teenager. And what happened? Well, I pulled it out of my bag. I wish we could pull it up right now i wish i could so i don't know you have to watch the movie i i was in a you know i was just i was so because i thought i'm gonna you know well you're frazzled that's for sure i was frazzled man so that helped i suppose but did you then have to like how much thought had you put into that character i mean did you have to sort of retrofit the character from that moment?

Well, I had to. I mean, literally on the plane to New York, I'm reading and trying to, like, you know, make up some backstory for myself. And I sure wish I'd met that actor who plays my son, who I'm so in love with. You know, who I have to, I'm dying to see and save. Right. So I'm walking through this set. The cameras are rolling. I'm dying to see and save right so I'm walking through this set the cameras are rolling

I'm screaming for my son I'm screaming my son's name I don't even know what this guy looks like no oh yeah

we hadn't even you know you hadn't met him when he played it no because I just arrived and it was like night

and they're all in the thing and Denzel's gotta be intimidating Denzel hey Denzel he'd already they've already And Denzel, hey, Denzel, he'd already,

they've already been shooting for a couple of weeks. Right. So other stuff around me. Yeah. Because we're partners. I was in this movie for three months. Oh my God.

And he was great though. He is a force, man. He is. He is the most, the hardest working, most kind of disciplined and really, really serious about his craft and what he brings to it.

So that was kind of an inspiration too, just being at his side and then doing this scene. We'd only met. He and I had only met briefly. Right. And he brought it for me, you know. Yeah.

Cause, cause I think he understood. I was, I was on the hot seat. Anyway, that was, it's never been quite that bad. Right.

That was the peak of bad. So when you did Quick Change, was that the, was that like your second movie? That was my, well, it was my actually, it was my second movie,

but it was my first movie that I actually acted in. And that was a funny little part. It was really fun. The was my, well, it was my actually, it was my second movie, but it was my first movie that I actually acted in. And that was a funny little part. It was really fun. The cab driver, right? Yeah. And then, was that the thing that kind of broke you, you think? That got you visibility?

Yeah, I think in terms of film, sure. I mean, I was doing theater a lot in New York and I, you know, not- But TV too, right? I mean, didn't you pick up Wings after that? That put you on the map a little, that quick change did? I don't know if that did or, because I remember the producers of Wings

who then also went on to do Frasier. Those guys used to come to New York a lot and they were real into theater. Yeah. And they were loved theater actors. Yeah. So I think maybe they had seen me in a play or something. Yeah.

Or maybe it was quick change. And Wings, like that, that's what made you move out here the first time? I didn't. No, I moved out before I had wings. You did? Yeah, I'd been in New York for about six years, and I wanted to see what LA was like. So I came out.

I didn't have anything out here. I got that a number of months after I was here. And that was a hell of a job. That was a sweet gig. I mean, that was a sweet gig. I mean, that was for years, right? I mean, you know, I was on it six years because I came into it late.

You know, it had already been on for a year before I got into it because I came just to do one episode and then they wanted me to, they want to bring me back. I just remember there was a period on television where Wings reruns were everywhere.

Like every station, you were watching Wings somehow. It was a really cool group of people. And you know what was cool about Wings was I had never done sitcom before. I'd never done multi-cam. I hadn't done that much TV really. Yeah. And what was sweet about it was that we did it in front of a live audience. Oh, yeah. So the theater, all the theater that I had done and my background in theater, it was sort of came into play.

Yeah. Because we had immediate feedback. And so it was kind of a hybrid. And also, you know, I was newly married and my kids were young. Where did you meet your wife? I met my wife doing a play on Broadway. We were doing, I was doing heidi chronicles and she came in to replace someone and oh and then it was all i remember her from movies from the dead zone like she's like

invasion of the body yeah days of heaven yeah yeah she's great she's still going and so great and you've been together a long time. We've been together. Well, we've been, we'll be married 27 years in April. That's great. Amazing. So let's talk Barton Fink for a minute. Okay.

Because like I talk to people about the Coens, that character is so fucking memorable. And that movie is literally one of my favorite movies, period. That was maybe my second movie right but that character whether ben geisler which is a stomach problem yeah yeah what was that like because i think that for me like a lot of people hail caesar which i thought was great yeah like that is a double feature i think would be the greatest hollywood double feature oh because it's all the studios yeah it's like the same you know it's it's it's literally the same world but like quite different looks into the tone yeah the tone is the wrestling picture now wallace beery wrestling picture what do you need a roadmap great words yeah that's uh i had seen them i i didn't know them but i had seen

blood simple uh-huh uh and uh whatever was right at was it was it um raising arizona yeah raising arizona great something i don't know where that falls in the lineup but i was mad for blood simple and that was and and then when i got this call to come and audition for them, I was like, oh, my God, I want this. I don't even have to read the script. I just want to do it. Yeah. And so I auditioned in New York.

I was living in New York. And they were very receptive, but they said, hey, you know, listen, we're going out to L.A. to read people. Yeah. So we're just going to, I wasn't going to get an answer. Right. You know, I have to always wait, but I was really impatient with this one. And so they went out to L.A. and weeks passed, three, maybe four weeks passed.

And I just hope that they didn't find another Ben Geisler out there. So they didn't, then they came back. And I don't know, maybe I did a callback. I'm pretty sure I did a callback. And then they went to LA. And then they gave it to me, and it was an unbelievable experience. Yeah, why?

Well, I had never worked with two directors before, you know, in the same picture but but also just their their writing yes i'm sure you can you know as an actor you can see sense it too it's it's written in such a rhythm it it it really almost plays itself It really almost plays itself in a way. Uh-huh. You sort of step on the train and it carries you. Wow. And when I read it, when I read this character for my audition, it just, I can't explain it. explain it but somehow the the the mantle of this character or the voice of the character just it just came to me uh-huh it was a i i read it as as i i sort of heard it in my head as a

cross between jackie mason and yogi bear right remember yogi, yeah, yeah. A boo boo. And I thought, oh my God, it's almost like that's how they were. Of course, I've never had this conversation with them and I'm sure they didn't intend that. Yeah. But that's how it struck me. Uh-huh. And I thought, I wonder if I could do Jackie Mason and Yogi Bear combined. And so I started playing with that. And then... That was it. That was Ben Geisler. It was just this crazy, this crazy thing. Have you gone out for any of their other movies? Oh, I did. A number of years later, I did The Man Who Wasn't There.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a totally different character. I played a lawyer named Freddy Riedenschneider. You know, that was... totally different character i played a lawyer named freddie reiden schneider you know they that was i didn't have to read for that one they just got me for that one but it's been a long time since i've worked for them so yeah i'd love to get back into that i worked with uh michael learner played my mother's husband on my on my show, on Marin, on IFC. Oh, my God. For one episode. Crazy man. That's for sure.

He's a real character, buddy. He's a character. But I got to work with John Turturro and Barton Fink, you know, and I didn't, you know, I had known John just a little bit. He was at Yale after me. But we came out of the same, you know,

program and everything, so it was, we had a blast. And an actor who just died a few years ago, John Pulido. Oh, yeah, he's great. Oh, my God. So funny. One of the funniest, loveliest, best actors.

And they used him a lot. I mean, they just kept pulling him into every movie. Yeah, Big Lebowski. He also was in The Man Who Wasn't There. I actually asked him to come on. When I was doing Monk, I asked him to come on and do a part. Uh-huh.

I can't remember the character's name, but it was like the hot dog king, you know, the guy who runs all the hot dog cart place. Yeah. And we walk into this thing to talk to him, and the place is filthy. People are picking up hot dogs off the floor and putting them in the water. I mean, it was really, and he's always got one in his fist, you know.

I could not look at him. It was so funny. And weirdly, I knew John way before that because when I was at Yale to pull this full circle, I was doing a production at the rep of measure for measure Chris Walken was in it and and that's the first time I met John Pulido he was playing uh Lucio or somebody uh-huh anyway and he's funny what a character yeah what a lovely crazy funny guy yeah you were on Monk a long time. I was eight years, yeah, eight seasons. Do you find

that that's the one that people identify you most with? Yeah, it takes a while for, you know,

that's what I like about Maisel too, it's just starting now to unravel that image of Monk.

Just the way Monk unraveled the image of Antonio Scarpacci from Wings. Yeah, TV's weird

like that. It is. Do you find that? Well, I don't know. I mean, I've just started doing it, and it's a different type of television. I mean, when Wings was on, it was like almost everybody was watching it.

Well, there weren't 400 outlets. That's right. There was like four, three. And then by the time Monk got on, there was a few more, but still not the same as now yeah what was that on USA

USA yeah and now it's just like you know free for all now it's a mile wide and an inch deep as they say

yeah but my dear friend of mine who I love and I work with sometimes we do we do broadcast together

Tom Sharpling wrote for him I love Tom it's the greatest oh my god he's so funny he's one of mine smart guy yeah we do broadcast together. Tom Sharpling wrote for him. I love Tom. It's the greatest. Oh, my God. He's so funny. What a mind.

Smart guy, yeah. I think he probably, we did eight seasons. Tom had to have been on six. Yeah. Minimum. Yeah, great guy. You ever listen to his radio show?

Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. He's so funny, man. He's really got a... We do these things called Mark and Tom shows. We've done three of them. We're about to do another one where we just...

Oh, let me know when you do that. I will, yeah. We got one coming up, I think, in a couple weeks. We'd record three of them. We're about to do another one where we just... Oh, let me know when you do that. I will, yeah. We got one coming up, I think, in a couple weeks. We'd record... Like, when we have time, we'll just sit with Mike, just me and him,

and just talk like the two guys we are, you know, who live on the microphones. And it's usually fun for both of our fans. So when I saw you... When we did that roundtable together last year... Oh, yeah, the Hollywood Reporter. Yeah. You would just... I think you when we did that roundtable together last year. Oh, yeah. The Hollywood Reporter.

Yeah. You would just, I think you would just come back from the genealogy journey to Lebanon, right? Yeah. I think, well, I did that right after we shot Maisel in Paris. Oh, so you were going. You hadn't gone yet? I think I was going. And what happened?

So what drove you? Well, I was wanting to go to Lebanon for my entire life. Yeah. Because hearing and reading so much about it. But I never had the opportunity. And when the opportunity did arise a couple of times, then something bad would happen over there. And it was impossible. Right.

bad would happen over there and it was on it was impossible right so we were going to paris in no and knowing we had a break right after paris to before we had to continue mazel um i asked my wife she said look this would be a great time to go where we're halfway there we're almost there and we have time so so uh yeah we set it up and we went for a week. Wow. In April, early April when the weather was fantastic. And we stayed in Beirut, but we would hire a car every day to take us to different, you know, it's not a very big country. So we would go in a different direction every day. But I got to see the village where my dad was born and even the house where he grew you know grew up really it was incredible how do you

get that information it was not easy it went through and through a number of different channels you know with uh people we were traveling with uh knew this woman who's a lawyer and then she made a call to this other person and then they got in town with the mayor of this little village and then mentioned my name, and would it be possible for him to see the thing? And it was amazing. We met with these people in the village, and then they walked us over to the house.

The man who now owns the house just happened. He doesn't even live there. He just lives in Montreal or something, but he happens to visit there a month a year, so we he let us in it was open arms it was incredibly moving i mean the garden was the you know the almond trees are there and the grape vines and oh my god it was i was trying to you know photograph and video everything i could yeah and i was able to get a lot. I don't speak Arabic, so we always had to have a translator with us.

Did you have people there? I mean, do you have relatives? You know, I didn't find relatives there this time. I wasn't really looking for relatives, to be honest, because we had a limited amount of time. I was really focusing on just seeing as much of the country as I could and the village. And then I thought, if I go back, then I'll get into the whole, because that's a whole time consuming thing.

You can't just- Oh, to track relatives? Yeah, I think it really is. And I would want to spend time. Anyway, our time was limited. So we accomplished what we could. We saw a lot of the country. And it's just an extraordinary place.

Did you feel connected? Very much. Very much so. Was your mom Lebanese? My mom was, well, yes. Her father was Lebanese and her mother was, I think, from Egypt. So, but that was, you know, sort of her mother's, I mean, her family, my mother's family was from the same village that my father was from. Wow.

So they all, you know, it was all. What village? It's a little village called Abla and it's on the edge of a larger city called Zahle. And this is an area where, I don't know if you know this, but Omar Sharif was actually Lebanese. In fact, his name, his real name, is the same as mine. Same last name. Saloub? Uh-huh.

Yeah. And everyone thought he was Egyptian because he grew up in Egypt. Yeah. But he's really, I think his father was from this clan. Uh-huh. And so his family also was from this same area. Yeah. Anyway.

That's a whole movie. Possibly. Yeah. Possibly there's, or even related in some strange fashion. You think so? Well, I was at the Golden Globes last week. Did you fix the gap in your teeth? Yeah, I did.

But I tell you, if I showed you pictures of my dad when he was young. And Omar Sharif? Oh, my God. Didn't he have a gap in his teeth, or am I not remembering correctly? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, you did. Very amazing. But at the Golden Globes last week, I ran into his grandson, Omar, who I had met last year at the Globes.

He's in show business? He must be because he's at the Golden Globes. Yeah, right. But he's really a fine-looking young man. Oh, yeah. And I took a picture with him and everything. And he always said, my grandfather thought that we were related. You're going to have to track it, man. You're going to have to do it someday. I am going to track it. everything and he always said my grandfather thought that we were related he's you know so um

you're gonna have to track it man you're gonna have to do it someday i am gonna track it and i'm i'm really sorry i never got to meet omar sharif but yeah but that's interesting i i can't like it must be like a complete mind-blowing thing to you know to have your history in that defined a place or that unique a place. Yes. And then just to go see it for the first time, it must be mind-blowing. It was. It was incredibly emotional.

And you can't even take it all in. There's just so much going on there, so much to it, complicated the the politics yeah and the economy and the and everything that's going on in the region you know it's uh but you must look around and think like i look like these folks yeah like i absolutely yeah oh there's my cousin so exactly because like as a jew even though there's a semitic connection i mean i get i don't know how many generations i have to go to get back to the desert. I mean, for me to do what you did, I got to go to Poland and Russia.

Yeah. Yeah, and I've often thought about it, but I don't know, Poland doesn't seem that hospitable. Russia seems interesting to me, but I don't know if it's a great time to go, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, yeah, maybe. Well, you know, really in Lebanon,

that's always been an issue. When is a good time to go? Yeah. Because everything right now, or when I was there eight months ago, you know, it was in a relative period of calm. But everyone there is thinking, well, when's the other shoe going to drop? Right. When is the next crisis going to hit? Now the whole world's thinking like that.

We're doing that here now. I'm doing that yeah i'm doing that in los angeles yeah every day what's gonna fucking happen next but you did go that's good for you yeah i'm glad i did it and i really would like to go back well you will it's great talking to you tony oh mark i could talk to you forever thanks and congrats onats on the show. It's really a sweet show. And on yours. Thank you. Wonderfully done. Thank you. What a great conversation.

Genuinely a nice guy. As I said before, the second season of The Marvelous Miss Maisel is now streaming on Amazon Prime. Go watch it. You can also go to podwag.com slash WTF or the merch page at wtfpod.com. There's new signed posters. There's t-shirts. There's signed books.

And later this week, there's going to be some copies of my last special, Too Real on vinyl. I'm going to play a song and just make something up. Just rip the thing for Buster. Okay. Thank you. Buster! Live! Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice?

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