WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 994 - Yeardley Smith / Krusty the Clown

Episode Date: February 14, 2019

Yeardley Smith knows that Lisa Simpson gets people through tough times. She knows because strangers come up to her in public and tell her how much Lisa helped them. And yet, despite portraying this iconic character for 30 years, Yeardley struggled for a long time to see her own life and career as a success. She and Marc talk about her journey, which includes Broadway roles as a teenager, stumbling into voiceover acting, and hosting her own podcast, Small Town Dicks. Plus, Marc himself becomes part of the Simpsons Universe when he welcomes Krusty the Clown to the garage. For real. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and Aspiration.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast, WTF.f welcome to it how's it going i was uh very uh heartbroken and upset uh the last time i spoke to you folks and i'll get into a little more of the buster story though there is a a time issue uh now with it's going to be a little stilted because of how we're doing the next few shows. But before I get into that, I wanted to say that I'm very excited about my guest today in that it's Yardley Smith, who plays Lisa Simpson on The Simpsons. And it was a great interview, a great talk. And I didn't grow up watching The Simpsons. Of course, I love The Simpsons, but I'm not a complete Simpson nerd. But I was always curious to hear about the process and who's on it and her life. She wanted to talk. She is a fan of the show. And it was it was very connected and revealing and interesting to to to

know and learn the life behind Lisa Simpson. But also on the show, we have sort of a big deal. We have a very special preview of an interview I did with a comedy legend. And look, I'll explain it in a minute. Let me get you up to speed on what's happening with my emotional life in relation to my cat, Buster. I have to explain in the next few episodes because my amazing producer and business partner, Brendan McDonald, needs to take a vacation. And God knows he deserves it. It's his wife's birthday present and they're going away. And I'm happy for them.

But because of that, I don't want him to have to think about anything that has to do with me or the show or anything other than relaxation and enjoying the company of his lovely wife. And coincidentally, they're going to be someplace where they can't connect to anything. So good for them. But because of that, I'm going to be recording these intros kind of on top of each other in the next few days. I'll keep you up to speed at least now and for the next episode as best I can, although much time will have passed since you'll hear them. But for right now, we got some good numbers back with Buster. His kidney numbers are going down, but the vet still did not sound that optimistic.

I was thrilled because after three days of antibiotics and fluids, there at least was some results. We did an ultrasound. There was no blocking, but there was something there that implied either an infection, probably not cancer and or maybe some some sort of toxin. But the kidneys are still not functioning properly at all.

Apparently, like the numbers to me sounded like a tremendous progress. But the vet was sort of cautious in getting me excited. So where it's at right now is I'm going to leave him there for a couple more days just to have the constant fluids and take in the antibiotics to see if there if there's a continued decline in the numbers and a continued functionality of his kidneys. All they really found on the ultrasound was that the kidneys were enlarged and that he had some fluid. And the internist did not think it was cancer. But it's weird with medicine, both for humans and animals, apparently. It's all speculative in a way. And you can only learn everything you can learn, but still not know certain things. I don't know what caused it, but whatever the case, there was progress, and I'm hopeful, and I really want to thank all of you for your support and the well-wishing.

It does mean a lot to me because this guy is a good guy, and he's an interesting little cat. He's a genius. All right, I'll say it. Buster Kitten is a fucking genius, and we need genius cats in the world. And I hope his progress continues, and I will keep you in the loop, though it will be a little stilted. That's what I'm telling you. I'm going to go over there after I talk to you here and visit him.

I'm going to go visit my cat at the hospital and try to get him to eat some food. Okay? Okay. Now, here's the deal with this. I had a chance to interview a comedy legend. Seriously, a comedy legend. Someone, you know, that we always wanted to do the interview with him, and we thought it would be a great WTF interview.

The one and only Krusty the Clown. He was here in the garage for a WTF interview, and it was so revealing that everyone knew something big had to happen with this interview. So, this Sunday, February 17th at 8 p.m. Eastern on Fox, you can see my WTF interview with Krusty on The Simpsons. It's the basis for the whole episode. I'm serious. It's called The Clown Stays in the Picture. And you'll see we really broke it wide open. But for now, for right now, I'm going to play an excerpt of that interview.

Basically, they had to cut some stuff for time from the episode on Sunday. So we wanted to let you hear all of it. So this is me with Krusty the Clown here in the garage. So, Krusty, where'd you grow up exactly? I grew up on the lower east side of Springfield. Springfield. It's a very Jewish community. Massachusetts. No, no, no.

Oh. It's in the state that's next to Tennessee, but south of Oregon. Got it. Got it. Right. A lot of Jews down there? Lots of Jews. Uh-huh.

And what kind of business was your dad in? What was his racket? Well, his racket was he was a rabbi. No kidding. Rabbi Hyman Kristofsky. Oh, no kidding. Yes. Big congregation.

Very, very big congregation. Uh-huh. Congregation. Uh-huh. Very conservative. Uh-huh. Brothers, sisters, grew up with a lot of big family? No, no, just me.

That was it? That was it, and my mother, Rachel's her name. And that's it, and that's what they did. My father wanted me to go into the business, you know. Sure, into show business. In those days. Oh, into rabbi or to clowning? To rabbying.

Yeah. But I didn't have the, well, this is a Yiddish made-up word. Yeah. I didn't have the shmaboingi. Oh, sure. Or something like that. So they spoke Yiddish in the home then? They did.

Some of it was nonsense Yiddish. Later on, I'd talk to people, they'd go, well, Yiddish, and they would say, where the hell did you come up with that word? Right, right. So that was sort of a joke they had on you, I guess. Father's joke on me. How did he feel, the rabbi, when he decided to go into clowning? Oh, he was dead set against it. I had to do it on the sly.

Secret clowning. Secret clowning. I would do, you know, a bris, or I would do a bar mitzvah. You would jump out when your dad was doing a rabbi thing in the clown outfit? Oh, God forbid I did that. Oh, never. Oh, it broke his heart when he finally found out i was at an event it was a big rabbi convention i guess yeah and i got hired and

my father was in the audience and one of the rabbis got drunk and hit me in the face with a seltzer bottle sure well with the water not the bottle yeah and it my makeup washed off. Yeah. My father goes, Oi, Gewalt! Sure. Herschel! And then... That was it. That was it. Yeah.

Were you disowned? Did he rip his clothing like he's mortified? Yes, he did. He rented his tuxedo, which was also rented. He rented his rented tuxedo? Oh, yeah.

And then he took ashes that were on the table and he poured them on his head as if they were... I was dead. I was dead to him. It's interesting that were on the table on his head as if they were i was dead i was dead to him it's interesting that uh it was he had the ashes there prepared it was a ash well they were smoking oh okay okay that's a terrible uh terribly sad story it was very sad we were estranged for a long time and then we were reunited oh yeah right before he died? Before he died, yes. Oh, yeah. Yes, not after.

Oh, good. Well, good. I don't want to be reunited. Then I still want to hang around. Yeah, good. I just got to say, Krusty, I've been in this business for like 30 years. But I think about everyone who's been an influence on me. And I got to tell you, you were one of the biggest.

Oh. Yeah, yeah. I used to watch you perform. And then I wrote it all down, and I just wanted to make sure I didn't do a single thing that you did. Yeah, well, that's smart. With me, it was the opposite. I stole from everybody.

Oh, one of those guys, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, who'd you steal from? Oh, I stole from Jack Carter, Corbett Monica, Morty Gunty. Wow. Alan King, Phil Leeds. Yeah? You name it, I stole it.

All the big ones. I stole from people who looked like they were going to be sick and die so they wouldn't sue. Yeah, but you were probably stealing from people that stole from people that stole from people. I probably stole from Burt Williams. I don't know. What about Shecky Green? Oh, did I steal from Shecky? Oh, come on.

I got an ashtray with his name on it. How about in the 70s? Were you stealing in the 70s? Like Lenny Schultz, Billy Braver, Sammy Shores. You steal their stuff? Sammy Shore, yeah. I stole from Sammy Shore. Well, I don't know.

You don't feel bad about it? No, I mean, Sammy was very, very big about it. Very big after I paid him. Who were some of the other people you worked with, Krusty? Well, you see, I worked with... Godfrey Cambridge? No, I stole from him. I did a lot of civil rights stuff, but it didn't go over very well.

How about, was uh lester and willie oh yeah well i did steal willie from he stole the doll yeah it was a kidnapping did you try to do the act was it crusty and lester i don't know if i stole willie or lester well one of them would probably resist yes yeah I guess it was a guy who didn't resist. Just laid there. So, oh, you're talking about Red Fox? Red Fox. Oh, boy, I had stories about...

He was so dirty. Funny. Very funny, but dirty. Yeah. I used to open for him. But, you know... I couldn't... What?

I couldn't say a single joke that he said on this... It's a podcast. Really? Say whatever you want. Oh, yeah, let me whisper it in your ear first. The other day, I was like, and then on there. I said, what? Jesus.

Now that's in my head? I'll never get that out of my head. God, that is filthy. You know, you ruined donuts for me i i you ruined them you ruined them for me too i love donuts and now not never again oh my god crusty i know i'm on blintzes now polluted my brain blintzes how are they they good oh they're great oh it went fast got another dirty story about that oh you want to hear? Yeah. Oh my god! I didn't even eat that many blintzes. Now I'm sorry for the ones I did eat. Do you want me to ruin any other food for you? Oh, with a Red Fox joke? amazing right how amazing was that i sat with crusty the clown and the rest of that interview

is on the simpsons this sunday at 8 p.m eastern on fox i'm not i'm not bullshitting you clearly i mean you heard it you heard Fucking unreal, the life I'm living. It really is. Very grateful. I'm not going to say blessed because it's a little weird. So as you're gleaning with your ears, this is sort of a Simpsons themed interview. I talked to Yardley Smith, who is the voice of Lisa. And it was one of the great WTF conversations. It really was.

And it's all sort of in connection with The Simpsons in its 30th season. This is its 30th season on Fox. And again, I am guest star on The Simpsons this Sunday, February 17th at 8 p.m. Eastern on Fox, interviewing Krusty the Clown right here in the garage. And Yardley was nice enough to come and talk to me. I love talking to her. She's also the co-host of the true crime podcast Small Town Dicks. But you all know her and love her as Lisa on The Simpsons.

So this is me talking to Yardley Smith. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. to Yardley Smith. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. What do you got? I have a present for you. Oh. I knew you had a lot of little things. I have things. I keep building present for you. Oh. I knew you had a lot of little things. I have things. I keep building on my things. So this is a collector's item that you can't get anywhere else.

Oh. About season three of The Simpsons, they put out those little pins. Yeah. Those little stick pins. Yeah. And I found them in a little comic book store in the valley. Yeah. And I bought them in a little, like, comic book store in the valley. Yeah. And I bought them all.

Yeah. And... You didn't have a hookup? Oh, God, no. Are you kidding? No merchandise? Oh, no. I mean, so much stuff.

People go like, hey, look at this. I'm like, where the hell did you get that? Like, don't they send you that? I'm like, no, they send us nothing. Oh. And so, and I was so in love with it and then but there were only about 15 of them it's a pretty great little flying lisa it's a little superman lisa yeah and so i actually did an end run i tried to get the show to make more yeah and they wouldn't

and so i had more made you did did on your own? I did. Which I'm, of course, not supposed to do. So now I still have about. Oh, no. Now you're going to be in trouble. Now I'm in big trouble. So you just got them because you liked them so much and you thought it was a shame that they weren't out there. Yes.

Yeah. There's not a lot of Lisa merchandise out there. It's hard to come by but she's like the probably the most um uh intellectually and uh emotionally important character she is i would think to the young women of the world yes uh you know i hear that a lot you do yeah from people who say you got me through a hard time or right you know you hear that as well yeah and it's i never ever ever take it for granted and i'm always surprised and i'm always enormously grateful a that they would share that with me yeah and b that anything i did could have any that could have that profound an effect

on someone you don't know when you're doing it and that's not why you do it at least i don't think you can reverse engineer it incredibly selfishibly selfish reasons. A hundred percent. That's right. To fill that hole inside. Yeah, exactly. And it turns out you actually helped somebody else fill their hole. Yeah. And you're like, oh, thank God.

Maybe even patch a hole here and there. Maybe. Those are hard to patch, though. There's a lot of triage. Yes. But you know, patches are good. Yes. I'd like to seal a couple.

Sure. Boy, howdy. I'd like to steal a couple. Sure. Boy, howdy. I'm with you. The patching, you know, the problem with patching is if you don't do upkeep, they just come off, they rot away. Yeah, they do. And then the next thing you know, you're- You lose the adhesive.

Yeah, and you're like, why am I here again? It's still jagged. Fucking patch came off. Yeah, fucking patch. Yeah. But I would have to assume that now like i mean what is this the 30th anniversary of the simpsons yes so there are there are probably women who are like 40 who come up to you and go like i grew up with you yes oh all the time and a lot of there's a lot of tears actually

really yeah i mop up a lot of tears and uh where does it they're shaking yeah oh yeah of course shake oh yeah i meet you That's a little wild. It is wild. Yeah. But actually to your point about growing up with The Simpsons, we actually have writers who grew up watching the show hoping that their dream job would be to write on The Simpsons and I'm sure they all thought,

but it won't still be on by the time I'm old enough. Like, yes, we will. It's going to be on forever. And then all the writers who started with us or many of them are still with us because they go out into the real world it's a totally different much more sort of dog-eat-dog scenario out there where you get studio notes and network notes right and james l brooks said when we went to half hour that we would get no studio or network notes. That was one of his caveats. And he kept that promise? Oh, yeah. And Fox kept it, I think,

because, A, they thought the show would never go past the first 13 episodes, and B, it's James L. Brooks. Like, you're not going to say no to that guy. And also, at this point, they're going to fuck with that machine? Well, and now they can't. No, because it's literally in writing. In paper? Yeah.

Yeah. So the writers, they go out into the world, they get, you know, deals at Disney or wherever else, and now they can't. No, because it's literally in writing. Yeah, yeah. So the writers, they go out into the world. They get deals at Disney or wherever else, and it's horrible, and they all come back. So we have a massive staff for a half-hour show. But do they just let them come back and say, sure, and they just throw them on the payroll, and it doesn't matter? They're happy to have everyone back? Yeah. Like Mike Scully, he's been our showrunner. He was our showrunner way back in the day.

I'm not like a full-on Simpsons nerd. I have a little distance. Well, we just have to talk about that. You're going to be on the show. I know. And your episode airs on the 17th of February. It's very exciting. I'm very excited.

I actually got, I heard Matt Selman, who wrote that episode, who's a genius, sent me a fantastic little super secret snippet of you interviewing Krusty the Clown. Right. All because Lisa heard the podcast. That's right. She's a fan of yours. Right. You as you.

As me. Mark Maron. I am Mark Maron on The Simpsons. That's right. Is it funny? It's so good. Does it sound like a WTF? Yeah. It as you. As me, Mark Maron. Yeah, yeah. It's phenomenal. I am Mark Maron on The Simpsons. That's right. Is it funny? It's so good. Does it sound like a WTF? Yeah, it's phenomenal.

I died. And Dan Castellaneta, who plays Krusty, of course, is... It was... What was fun was you were both so up to the task, you know? both so up to the task. You know? Dan is incredibly shy, but you get him to get behind that microphone

or on stage or anything, and he really becomes that person. And I get to stand next to him when we record. We record all together like an old radio play. You do, all the time. Yeah. Except for Harry doesn't record with us anymore and Hank doesn't because they live in other places. Do they pipe in from an ISDN hookup in their house? Harry has it in his house, I believe. Hank goes to a studio. Okay. But they don't pipe in while we're recording. They do their separate sessions. Right. So somebody reads for them during the recording? yeah yeah we have a guy we have a guy for that but i got dan to show it do do you

do much improvising i mean yes oh you and sadly it doesn't make it in usually because we're only a 22 minute show right but i have to say so i stand between dan and i stand and nancy cartwright who does bart right among others nelson kearney and it never gets old and especially Dan who often has pages of dialogue just with himself but different characters and he doesn't even pause no it's remarkable and I could watch that all day

I've done a very limited amount of voice over for animation and when I see these old dudes that come in and they're just doing two or three I'm like that's crazy it's crazy but It's crazy. It's crazy. But you do a few.

I do. I do. Well, I do, Lisa. And then I do an old woman named Mrs. Glick. Yeah. Who they've killed off and brought back to life several times. I think just because I do it so badly, they're like, that's so fucking bad, Yardley. We got to have some more of that.

You're entertaining themselves. Yes. That's your expense. Yes. Because they can. 100%. Yeah. So you've seen a lot of these writers over the years move on.

Like, I know Dana Gould. And he's sort of a genius-y guy. Yes. But I also know Conan, right? People always ask me, you know, what was Conan Light when he was on the show? And I remember him being so quiet. And unassuming. When Lorne Michaels picked him out to host, I was like, that guy?

Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? It was the farthest. He's the last guy in the world I would have chosen. But I gather he was rather different in the world I would have chosen but I gather he was rather different in the writing room I don't know

I think that if you if left to his his real nature he would certainly be a quiet guy sitting there

because like anytime he talks it's a lot of he has to really launch you know what I mean it's not it doesn't come easily

even if he's just responding yes or no it's like yes yes he has to come out of himself sure to do that sure It doesn't come easily. Even if he's just responding yes or no, it's like, yes. Yes. He has to come out of himself to do that. Sure. But I bet you that's true.

But it's funny because his wit, the way he thinks, it almost seems like it was a Simpson character. Like he thinks, you have to think a certain way to write the comedy necessary for that show. I think that's true. To be that smart and that paced and that, you know, I don't understand. I don't. It's a marvel. It is a marvel.

But was this what you were? I guess some people, maybe nobody really sets out to be a voice actor, do they? I guess some do. Nancy did. Nancy. Yeah. Nancy Cartwright did. She studied at UCLA with a guy named Dawes Butler, who was a big voiceover guy.

We also have another woman on the show named Tress McNeil, who's absolutely brilliant. And she only ever did voiceover. And she does Mrs. Skinner. But she's also been on every other cartoon you've ever heard of. Yeah. Like Animaniacs and My Little Pony and Futurama and you name it. So, yeah, there are a few. I think it's, I will say I think it's much harder now because you have celebrities doing all these animated films.

Right. I'm not a big enough name to get a starring role in those animated films. You can't get in one? Oh, no. You haven't gotten in any? No. That's ridiculous. No. I mean, they really want, and I guess, you know, look, Live and Be Well. those animated films you can't get in one no you haven't gone in any no that's ridiculous no i mean

they really want and and i guess you know look live and be well i think my the only thing i truly take exception to is this notion that when you're doing that voiceover job that you're just you're somehow slumming it right as though voiceover isn't as much being an actor as being in front of the camera that's crazy and i and i think that's inaccurate i really do i sweat when i do voiceovers like you i you have to lean in in a way that is is a little weird you know because like you you have to sort of almost amplify yourself very specifically yes uh because it is all audio. But there's no less heart and soul into your delivery than if you were being shot, you know, from the waist up. I think it's more. Because you don't have the advent of body language and stuff.

But I also think the way that voice works for people just by doing it like this without any visual at all, it cuts right into people the you know what i mean like people have a very personal relationship with voice but i i think that it must be odd to be on one of the most popular shows ever made and and and maybe comforting not to and to be able to have a life yes it is the best of both worlds for sure you know you know i get recognized quite a lot um by simpson fanatics i would imagine yes people know you from some tv i've done i did i used to have a pretty robust um on-camera career uh and i look exactly the same as i did back you know 35 years ago so i get recognized for that too um but but to your point, you know, paparazzi is not waiting at the bottom of my driveway. I can go to Ralph's and, you know, although people do hug me in the produce section, there's usually just one.

I don't gather a crowd, you know what I'm saying? The strange person that looks at you for 10 minutes, follows you around the store. Yeah, yeah, that does happen. Sure. But it happens, you know, what's funny is it happens more if i go someplace where they don't expect to see you yeah because they can't place you right right and they often ask me did i you know did i go to school with you yeah yeah yeah if it was college no because it didn't get in so i know that's not true and if i've never been here and if you went to school here then the answer is no i mean there

is certainly you let them go through the, because you feel weird because when you volunteer that information, I'm Lisa. It depends. I'm from the movie thing. Sometimes, what I learned was, the hard way, was that oftentimes it's a rhetorical question. So when they say, or if the comment is, you look like that girl from The Legend of Billie Jean. And if I would say, I know, isn't that funny? They actually already know that I am. Right, right.

And now they're mad that you won't own up to it. So I then. So you used to walk away from it? I mean, you would not own up to it and then just go. Yeah, but it wouldn't always end well. No, yeah. No, but you are that girl. Now you're fucking like you're an idiot.

Now you're an asshole. Now you're caught. Now you're an asshole. So if they say you look like that girl, then I say I am that girl. And that's always fun, too, because then the jaw just drops to the ground. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's lovely. People ask me, what is it like to be recognized you know when you go out in the world and i always say if i particularly if i go to a place that i've never been yeah people i've never met are thrilled to meet me they're so happy to see me who gets to say that it's great like total strangers are like oh my, it's fantastic that you're here. Yeah. And when they stop shaking. Yeah. And sweating and crying. And we can take a picture. It's nice.

No, I agree with you. And it's nice because with what you and I or however, whatever our level of celebrity is, it's probably different. But it's not enough to be annoying. No. It's always very nice. And I know that usually the people that approach me know me very well. Yes. Well, you especially.

Yeah. You know, like they know things about my life. They know like the whole story. What's that like for you? Because I am not, I'm less known in that granular way. Well, I do respect the fact that they do have a legitimate relationship with me. And I think it's genuine. It's just very one-sided.

And they know that as well. But I try to be as gracious as possible and not be a dick. I don't think I'm generally a dick. I mean, sometimes I'm misread because I'm just thinking about myself, which I guess is being a dick. But I'm not being a dick to somebody. If they get me in the middle of something i'm like and i'm rude it's not because i might get away from me it's sort of like sorry i'm panicking well you are allowed to be a person and have a life i mean

right right you know i always feel like if somebody approaches me like if people are waiting for me a baggage claim right um with your name yeah no with pictures to sign and stuff oh right right you know i feel like it's a little it's that but those aren't regular people no that that it freaks me out a little because first of all how'd you know i was coming i'm not this person on social media saying i'm flying from new york to los angeles i'll be there in five hours yeah kind of person um but and i feel like yes okay i'll i can engage to a certain extent, but this isn't actually a public event where I'll engage all day long as long as it takes. I'm happy to do it.

You know, you have to draw boundaries at a certain point, and that can get kind of hinky. But those guys in particular, it's always like three or four doughy dudes of different sizes. And they have stacks of stuff. Oh, yeah. Like they're there all day. I mean, how did you know? And have you signed Lisa pictures? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's the collector's weird. It's very different. I don't know where they're selling it. I don't either. But can I get a cut of that 10 cents? Because, dude. I know, me too. It's my signature, my picture.

But I'm like, are you doing well with this? I know. Who the fuck? a cut of that 10 cents because dude i know me too my signature my picture but like i don't like i always i i'm like are you doing well with this i mean how many how many people are paying top dollar for a mark maron that's what i'm saying same same but have you ever seen it for sale like a single uh once in a while uh i'm again i know i'm not much of an eBay troller, but I have seen my, and it literally is for, you know, $2 or something. Right. It doesn't. Right. I mean, you're not going to make a lot of dough on that, dude.

But how do they know? I don't know. And sometimes they say, oh, somebody, you know, tagged you in a tweet. And then I'll go back through my feed and nobody's tagged me. That's weird. I don't know if they have, or somebody saw you get it, you know, at the gate. I'm like, who? Yeah.

Was it somebody inside from the airline? Right. Was it an actual bystander? Is somebody being paid off? I just. Or sometimes when you're doing something in their city, they know you're coming in somewhere. I don't know how they find out. I don't know either.

But that sometimes I understand that or if it's a festival, or if it's Comic-Con, or whatever. But that's to be expected, right? But not just visiting a friend in Sedona. And you're just coming back from that Thursday to Sunday jag, right? Who are you? What's happening? What's happening? So where did you grow up?

I grew up in Washington, D.C. Really? Were your parents in politics? My father was a journalist for the Washington Post. Thank God for the Washington Post right now. Boy, I mean, there's a whole generation of journalists who thought they were going to be limited to tabloid writing or clickbait. And now they're like, are you guys ready?

Because there's real work to be done. There is some shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. 100%, yeah. So was your dad that kind of journalist? What kind of journalist? First he was City News.

Actually, before that he wrote for the UPI, which is United Press International. United Press International. Which I don't know that exists anymore. Yes, actually in Russia and Poland in the Cold War. Before you were. I was born in 64 and I think they got there in 62. I have an older brother who was born in 63. So you were born in Europe?

Yes, my brother was born in London and I was born in Paris. So your dad was going up to Russia. Yeah, in Moscow and I think he loved it. Yeah. You know, back in the day, you had to run to the phone and call in your story. Sure. And then you had to get an outside line when you're in Russia and you know someone's listening to it. My parents talk about it.

Well, my father's dead and my parents are divorced. But they used to talk about how they knew that in their apartments, both in Moscow and in Poland, in Warsaw, that it was bugged. And so if they ever had anything important to talk about, and they weren't, I'm sure it wasn't super secret politics stuff, but if they wanted any measure of privacy, they would go into the bathroom and turn on the water. And that was, I guess, enough of interference that you couldn't necessarily make out the words. Meanwhile, they got married in Moscow. And they're both American.

And the Russian, because they're both American, the Russian embassy said, we'll let you know when you can get married. And then literally like on a Tuesday, they said, you can get married Friday. So nobody could come over. First of all, you couldn't really just pop over to Russia. Tough invite, yeah. Yeah. So I have only one photo survived from the wedding. All the rest somehow disappeared from their luggage.

Really? Yeah. They were taken? Yeah. Oh, my God. So he had a place in Moscow. Yes. Yes, they had an apartment, both in Warsaw and in Moscow.

And then when my mother, after I was born, so I was born in 64, and my mother says, at that point, she said, I have two babies in two hands. I'm going back to the States. Right. My father traveled quite a bit, I think, when he was working. And I think it was sort of lonely and cold. bit, I think, when he was working. And I think it was sort of lonely and cold. And my mother is extraordinarily bright, but she said she wasn't very good at the Polish language. And so I think my father really was like, rat. So we went back. Both my parents are from New York City, or my father from Brooklyn, rather, and my mother from Manhattan. And so we lived with

my mother's parents for a year until my father found a job, and that was at the Washington Post. Wow, that seems like a very exciting life. So your dad spoke Polish and Russian? Yes, I suppose, a bit. I can't even picture what Polish sounds like. I know a little from Yiddish here and there. It's sort of part of it.

Yeah. But I don't know. So I guess it wasn't necessary to speak it at home, was it? No. That'd be kind of weird. No, yeah. So like you're growing up in Manhattan and like, so I'm a little older than you.

So it must have been kind of exciting. Was it like real Manhattan? Yeah, my grandparents lived at 98th and Madison, 96th and Madison. And I remember- Back when people could have apartments in Manhattan. And they had a 50-foot hall in their apartment. They had an apartment that had an actual dining room and an actual living room.

Now, those rooms weren't huge, but it did have two large bedrooms and then a small bedroom, which I remember was my bedroom when I would go visit. Were they just middle class people? Yes. Well, my grandmother had some money. She was from St. Louis. Her father had been a doctor. But not crazy?

No. No, not crazy. The only person that can live in New York now is Hank Azaria. 100%. Yes. And I'm sure. Yes. And my grandfather was curator of prints at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Your grandfather was curator of prints? Yes. Like acquiring prints and making exhibits. No, they're all very fancy and intellectual. And then there's me who didn't even get into college. Yeah, but you were surrounded by that. I was, yes. What did your mom do? My mom was a paper conservator at the Freer Gallery of Art, which is part of the Smithsonian.

So she would repair books and pictures for exhibit. Huh. And she went to Radcliffe. Such a specific, odd job. It is. And then my father studied history at Harvard. And after he left, when I was about 10, I think, they moved him from City News to be the editor of the obituaries. At the Washington Post.

Yeah. And it was fascinating because my father, I think what he really loved was the long lead obits because he was a history major. And he loved, you know, it was like writing a biography. Yeah. was the long lead obits because he was a history major and he loved you know it's like writing a biography he was not so good with the day-to-day with poor you know jane and john doe his spouse had died and yeah i think survived by yeah yeah joe and jim yeah i used to hear him on the phone and you could just hear him seething disappointed that he didn't have a media bit to write i think and he that he yeah why can't some famous people with a life die more often yeah yeah what's the why is there a glut of normal people what's wrong dying with

with no real life yes so how old are you when they got split up 20 oh so yeah not as devastating as seven no not as devastating but uh messy oh yeah yeah we didn't have to choose who to live with did you no i was gone already i was living in new york myself i had i was on broadway actually well let's go back though so like okay so you're growing up with this fairly you bunch, art and letters. Yes. But you don't want to go to college? Or were you rebelling? Were you like, fuck you guys?

I applied to Vassar Northwestern in Yale. That was it? Yeah. And people would say, why didn't you have a fallback school? I'm like, why would I want to go to a fallback school? Right. Why would I want to do that? Yeah.

That's not how I'm wired. Right. Right. Why would I want to do that? Yeah. That's not how I'm wired. Right. Right. And so I remember, though, from the age of about seven, wanting to be an actress and wanting to be really, really, really famous, like the most successful you could possibly be. A movie star. Yeah.

And I started to plot this plan for world domination. So you are Lisa. And so, yes. Although she is much more- Progressive than you. Well, resilient. You know, like I was fretful. I'm still fretful.

I'm a terrible worrier. I worry. And I was listening to your interview with Jennifer Lawrence. I respect how ambitious she is and unapologetic for it. I'm as ambitious, but much more polite. And I think if I were probably less polite, I'd probably be more successful. How much, what do you mean? How do you judge success? Well, here's the, that's a good question because what I've learned really late in the game and much after a lot of grief and depression is that success is an ever-changing landscape. And my folly was, my true downfall for so many years was I had this very, very specific vision of what my success would look like.

And when it didn't look like that, that must have meant I wasn't successful. That being the most famous person in the world? I think it was a little more like I'll have the pick of whatever jobs I want. I'll win all the awards. I'll be an EGOT by the time I'm 24, and that it would fill up all the holes inside. And I think what I really learned, and I was like, I must not be doing it right because it hasn't filled up the holes inside, made me feel like, well, that must mean you're

not that successful. Because if you were were then that would have worked but of course you can't reverse engineer it you can't fill up the inside from the outside yeah you know i i know this stuff you know and i and i know that i i because i wrestle with that too i i worry i'm a worrier i panic i dread is more yes dread you know like like the last few days i've been very overwhelmed and i don't quite know why not even overwhelmed like you know when all of a sudden you're like um fuck i've lived a long life already and i've been through a lot of stuff and like you start looking

at your hands and like i'm it's my vessels getting older yeah there's a lot of amorphous worry i find yeah but i yeah me too and i i really try to figure out like how to stop that because you know being a person in recovery you know there's a sort of like do what's in front of you you know uh uh you know stay in the present you know because like that idea that most of what you're reacting to is your brain is inventing either intentionally or not it's future dwelling yeah and that's or or or past now right you know if you're a man so there was a there's a few months there you're like i didn't do anything wrong did i so so that but it's also just like uh future but it could be as simple as like, you know, talking to you.

Sure. Like two hours ago, I'd be like, oh, God, what's she going to be like? I was so nervous. You were? Nervous that I would literally be the least interesting person you've had on this iconic podcast. How is that possible? I don't. Everybody's pretty interesting.

I've only had a few duds and even they were okay. You know, because the truth is like whatever I think has no bearing on how people are going to react to it. Right, right. But wait, so let's talk about this whole, how did it manifest? I mean, like what was the illness or the, you know, like throughout your life?

Yeah, I think there was a feeling of never enoughness. I really suffered from and still do to an extent, but less so, you know, perfectionism. Yeah. And somebody told me recently that there's this saying, of course I wouldn't know it because I'm a perfectionist. Right. That perfection is the enemy of good. Uh-huh. And I was like, oh.

Wow. I never heard that one. Oh, right. So that, you know, perfection will prevent you from doing anything, signing off on something that's good enough, right? Sometimes good enough is enough. Yeah, but if you're a perfectionist, your barometer for what perfect is is shifting.

Yes. So there's no real precedent there. It's just that, you know, it isn't it. That's exactly right. And you would set the bar high and then you would touch the bar and then you go,

but was the bar set high enough? And then you'd set it yet higher. So you're just built to beat the shit out of yourself. Yes. It's been tough. I got taken a lot of body hits in my 53, 50. How old am in my 53, 50. How old am I?

54? 54. Yeah. It's come back a little for me, that beating myself up. And there's always a couple of things I could beat myself up about, but I really don't need to be. Right. You don't. And it's a colossal waste of energy.

Yeah. And I've tried meditation. I've tried a lot of things and this sort of self-talk and stuff. And I can't say any of it's been hugely successful for me. But I continue to try. Yeah, I do that. I feel that way too. But also the thing I know about myself is that I know I should do those things and I'll try them, but I don't stick with them.

And then they don't work. And then you're like, well, fuck that. Right. But how are they going to work? Doing it. Right. How are they going to work twice? I don't know.

Exactly. It has to become a practice. Exactly. As much as you beat yourself up, you then have to do the counter. Otherwise, the beat yourself up will always win. That's right. Because then you try things and it doesn't work. Then the beat yourself up will always win that's right because then you try things and it doesn't work then you beat yourself up about that because you didn't do it right yes but but that means only one thing to me though is that there's something

about beating ourselves up and being in that zone that is more comfortable than the possibility of not having it yes i do think for me i have used it as a motivating force as though if but on purpose oh see like i've said that too but is it on purpose i don't think so i think it's so innate but there's this deep-seated fear that if i although nothing in my history suggests that i've ever dropped the ball and let it roll under the couch ever right but maybe today will be that day and then what and then I'll just become like this sloppy couch potato and never do anything ever again really hardly really really no I don't I just don't think no but where's the control thing like was there chaos was there alcoholism in the family yes my father was an alcoholic and then he got he got sober when i was

10 and then he fell off the wagon a few years later and then he got sober again and was sober till the end of his life so that'll do it well you're lucky you didn't end up boozing yeah i am yeah so what um i was bulimic for 25 years that's sort sort of a similar kind of thing. Oh, my God. That's a lot. 25? Yeah, from the time I was 14 until, I remember when I was, I think I was 39 and thinking, I cannot turn 40 and still be doing this. Oh, my God.

So I trotted myself off to an outpatient program at UCLA for 13 months at 39. Okay, 39, yeah. And, you know, basically what it was was group therapy. But one of the things we would do is we had to eat together as a group. And when you have an eating disorder, of course, it's a very private ritual. You are embarrassed about eating you don't want people to watch you eat i would never if i had a meeting with somebody say i would never have it over lunch yeah because i didn't want to eat with a stranger you know there's a lot of stuff

but was there two but were there two modes of eating like eating in public and eating alone right yeah 100 yeah so you kind of learn how how to eat like a person who eats like a regular person? Yes. And then you do whatever it is. And not to be afraid of food. Like food really was the enemy, right? So you basically learn to kind of defuse those landmines. What do you mean?

Well... Oh, you mean in treatment? Yes, yes, yes. Because I grew up with an anorexic mother and and and she's still functioning like i i talk about it because it's her life is is managing what she wouldn't call an eating disorder right you know like uh right but but like i'm it's between me and you and the few times i've talked about this on the show, it's my primary fucking sickness is my relationship with food.

Like right now, I just took off like 20 pounds on purpose, work, diet, and everything else. But now if I put on, now I'm on the scales again. Right. It's horrible. So I'm thinner now than I've been almost ever. And it feels great. Like I love to feel starvy. I like when like, you know.

Me too. And I rarely am. Yeah. And like I'm getting on the scale. And even though I lost 20 pounds, specifically to prepare for being on the set of Glow, because I didn't want to be pudgy because I know I'd eat. But then I just got hooked in the losing of the weight. And now if I put on a half pound, I'm like, oh, fuck.

Yeah. These pants. Absolutely. It's a really vicious, vicious cycle. And by the way, you know, of course, the scale is the worst metric of how your body is doing. But we're attached to it. Well, so tell me about the, like, okay, tell me about this process about the redefining

your relationship with food. Yeah. Well, so one of the things we had to do was eat together as a group, and that was really... Because everyone had a different style of sickness? Yeah, and yes, some were anorexic, some were bulimic, and some

were overeaters. So you binged. And some were overeaters. I was a binger. But I only binged on sweet things. I only binged on cakes, cookies, ice cream, and things that- Are the best. Yeah. And so, and actually I did a one woman show 10, 12 years ago. Oh yeah?

Yeah. And because I wasn't getting any work, right? I still had The Simpsons, but I wasn't getting any work outside of that. But I hadn't been getting any work for a really long time. But you're making a living, you had healthcare. Absolutely. It really was the fact that I had The Simpsons has provided me extraordinary opportunity for choice, right? The ability to say yes or no to whatever I want. You cannot put a price on that. And that really has been the greatest gift of that show.

Plus, I really love my character. But I did this one-woman show. And at the time, I was newly recovering from my eating disorder. I was newly recovering from my eating disorder. And so I did this, I did like a game show where I would teach you how to binge and purge. And pretty much every night somebody would walk out at that point. And my friends who, I don't know if they're trying to make me feel better or what, they're like, but Yardley, that means you moved them. You touched them somehow. You made them uncomfortable. Or I'm like, ugh.

So you were making light of it because you had gone through it. Yes. So there was humor in it for you, but it probably triggered people who were active. I guess. Or they just thought it was disgusting and this is way too personal and what the fuck's wrong with you. But that's what a one-person show is supposed to be. You're supposed to purge yourself at the expense of audiences.

And then you move through it and decide whether it was a good thing to do or not. Right, right. Exactly. There's no future for them, really. No, there's none. 100% not. But you know,

I know I've done several. Yeah. There was one that I did that I was in the middle of divorce and separation that was in three i was in the middle of uh divorce and separation that was happening and i was doing a show about it while it was happening and i really didn't mean anyone to see it it was workshopping which was just sort of like i don't know who else to talk to about this so thanks for coming yeah room full of strangers this is gonna get sad and weird there's no control it's still happening let's do it it was terrible but

how do you know like what what is um because if you you feel like you've come through it yes and so because like when you brought up binging like the like i like i got off all the sugar and everything but like i i like sugar but fortunately like with ice cream and shit i got a little slight cholesterol problem so i'm like i'm afraid to die right but um but like the other night i had like a a relatively healthy cookie yeah and because someone brought him over mandy more brought me fucking cookies wow four of them from amara which are the with those health so like i'm like i can't do it and i put them the freezer. And then the other night I ate one. And I'm like, oh, God damn it.

And then I'm like, I got it. It took everything I had. It took my girlfriend going like, don't eat another one. I'm like, you don't know. You don't understand. How good it would feel. Right? Right.

Well, there were many things. So is it worth five minutes of satisfaction for three days of beating the shit out of yourself? Well, that's a good question for anything or a lifetime of shame. Yes. A hundred percent. Right. And sometimes that works. But, you know, mostly I just learned to, I mean, I think we journaled.

And so you had to write about here's what I feel like when I can't binge and purge. You know, for me, I think it was it really I remember I used to get sort of high. Yeah. It was when you ate. Yeah. It was this there was a catharsis. You get high and then you would sort of level out your flat line so that you didn't feel anything. That was really the MO.

Yeah. Yeah. flat line so that you didn't feel anything that was really the mo right yeah and um and now i just don't like i don't keep ice cream in the freezer because that's a huge trigger for me i really like ice cream but there's other things i can have that i like just as well and that's fine like what um i love cake oh you can have cake i'm a big fan of cake yeah see my mother's style is she buys the ice cream she'll wake up in the middle of the night and eat a bunch of it and then throw it away. Right. And so there was always a situation where it's sort of like, like a family member tells a story about, you know, we had a

party at the house once and they came over the next day and there was a chocolate cake the night before and he was looking forward to having a piece. And when he walked into the house, my mother was jamming it down the garbage disposal so she wouldn't eat it sure she fed the garbage disposal much better than she fed i think her family the garbage disposal got the best stuff right but that's her way you know well there's it's darker than that in a way yeah but she's okay she's healthy but you know it just is what it is, that relationship with food. Well, in food, you have to face food every day, usually multiple times. One of my ex-wives used to say, because we met in recovery, and she was like, look, with food, you have to eat. It's not like, abstinence is not an option.

Right. So you've got to redefine your relationship with that thing. Yes, you do. Yeah. Yeah. option right so you've got to redefine your relationship with that thing yes you do yeah yeah but did you waste did you go to the uh like um oa and stuff or that kind of i just went to that the treatment that was it yeah good yeah that's good that you got over it but i do remember i used to have dreams about binging yeah you know when i was abstaining from it and then and of course it wasn't i went to that program and then I was perfect. And 13 months later, I'm like,

hooray, I'm cured. There would be two steps forward, one back. And then it got out of the program and there would still be two steps forward, one back. Right, right. You look good and you seem well. Yeah, yeah. No, it's been a really,

now it's been a solid, I don't know, five or six years, I think. Yeah. I no longer have the terror of food that I used to. Right. The terror because you can't control yourself around it, basically? Yes, because it sort of became this monster. I felt like I didn't have any power over it i guess right i couldn't control it control right control my reaction to it right and if i was having a bad day i would reward myself with yeah something that would invariably lead to right the bad behavior and

you're a controlly person yeah so that yeah and the only way you could control it was after the fact in a very messy, not socially wonderful way. Not socially wonderful at all. It was not a group activity. Sad private activity. Sad, sad. Because that's what people say, that eating disorders are primarily control things. Yes, yes, absolutely.

Well, I know that anorexia is that, but bulimia, I guess, is too, but it's sort of like an after the fact thing. Yes. Like I can do this and still win. Yeah. Yeah. It is the ultimate. But no one can watch me. The winning is not attractive. It's not.

And I was actually at my heaviest when I was bulimic. Right. Because you can't consume 4,000 calories and then expect that there will be no consequences, even if you barf it all up. It's not going to work that way. Well, I'm glad you're you're better. Thank you. And this always fascinating to me about about about cartoons and animated characters is that, you know, you have this life. It's an emotional life of personal struggle and whatever you are. And that, whether the script implies it or not,

informs Lisa. Yes. And I've always been fascinated with that because I knew a guy years ago who was an out-of-control drug addict monster. But he did voices for cartoons and I'm like, this guy's going into the heads of kids? You know?

You know, like, in my mind, even if it's scripted and it's cute and it's funny and it's a bear, it's still that fucking monster. You know, and I don't know if that plays, but I would assume it was, and you're fortunate that Lisa has gone through her own evolution, you know, with her own morality and political causes and personal habits but it's always been

evolving in a good direction yes but i have to assume that your tenor and your heart connected to how you talk is is part of the appeal of the thing i think so i i i always say i'm actually only 33 and a third percent of the success of that character um the writers really lay a foundation that is just second to none and they actually always often say that lisa is them they work out all of their childhood angst through that character yeah so i'm carrying a pretty heavy load, people. That's a lot of responsibility. It feels just like, you know, generations of aggravated Jewish men. Yes, through this little eight-year-old girl.

I don't mean to... They're not just Jews who write, and they're not just men. You have women, men of all religions. We have a few women, actually. They are mostly men. Yeah? Yeah, which is interesting

that they would connect so easily to lisa simpson but i think you know my theory is anyway that they're all so they're all the smartest guy in the room since the time they were seven right and so anytime you do something that sets you apart from your peer group i think it creates yeah fuck that. He's a weirdo. Exactly. And it can be really isolating. Oh, yeah. And you don't know where you fit in and you feel like an outcast. And so that element of Lisa Simpson, I think, is what's most familiar to them. It's a heavy load.

It is a heavy load, dude. These poor, nerdy, smart guys. Are relying on me. Oh, God. You might want to make sure your life preserver still works. You're a vessel. I'm a vessel. A vessel of the sort of cynical, broken-hearted closet cases.

That's nice. It's good. But where did you, did you train to be an actress? No, I didn't train. No. No. Did you study? No.

Really? You didn't go to college and you just got on Broadway? How did that happen? It's a good story, actually. So I did. I had this great plan. Then I started doing school plays. Although, well, when I was-

In high school. Junior high school. Yeah. But before that, actually, there was a woman in my neighborhood in Washington, D.C. who had a little one, a single car garage that in the summer, she used to turn into a theater and she would get all the kids in the neighborhood and we would, we didn't actually put on plays, but we would, she would gather us all together and dress us up in all these costumes. I don't know where she got them.

And we would lip sync to things like Fiddler on the Roof and Sound of Music. Yeah. And we would also do living portraits. And so, you know, a living portrait is you are, you look like the portrait. Yeah. Right? So I was this painting by Mary Cassatt. Okay.

A little girl in a straw hat. So I wore this gray frock and I had a straw hat. Yeah. And I would stand there and the curtain would come back. I remember my knees were knocking before the curtain was pulled back. Yeah. And then as soon as the light hit me, my knees stopped knocking. the curtain was pulled back. And then as soon as the light hit me, my knees stopped knocking. Yeah. Oh, wow.

And I thought, oh, well, this is clearly where I need to be. And then I started to form this plan, right? You felt seen. Yes. Yeah. I did, and I think I felt there must have been a measure of control. There was, you know, one of the things I loved about, I started out doing theater, was I always knew what was going to happen. So as a future dweller, that was really pleasing.

So even if the ending was sad and bad, I could prepare for it because I knew what was coming. I think maybe one other person has talked about that in that way. That makes such sense. Yeah. For two hours. Exactly. I'm completely safe. And so I did these school plays and I was a huge hit. And while I was doing that, I also would look in the newspaper and go and audition for things around town. One of the things I auditioned for when I was 14 years old was a play. I didn't know it was a plagiarized version of Peter Pan, but it turned out to be that. A plagiarized version?

Yeah. Yeah. At a dinner theater out in Arlington, Virginia, right across the Potomac. And I played Tinkerbell and I was bigger than all of the Lost Boys. Yeah. And I got paid $50 a week, I remember, which was more money I'd ever made in my life. And about the third week, my checks started to bounce. And there was often more people on stage than in the audience, and it wasn't a very big cast. Right. But I remember thinking that it's okay my soon the

checks won't bounce and i don't care about that anyway yeah i was on a wire which uh and i was wearing this really heavy not at all invisible leather harness on this wire and the wire was on a like a chain that you could pull a tractor trailer behind and it would go like like stopping and starting so you're rocking i am singing my solo and then the harness broke one night and i sort of like boink slipped out one side and uh scary yeah no not really i wasn't that far from the ground but it was hilarious I remember, and then one night I showed up, so what I didn't know was they were going under, which is why my paychecks were bouncing. And one night I showed up to do the show,

and actually at that point I had stayed on and I was doing The Three Musketeers, but I was playing a little old Italian man named Conchini in gold lame pants and a red tunic and a little black curly wig. Yeah. Horrible. And anyway, I showed up to work

and the theater was closed and on the door there was a notice from the health department and a notice from the IRS. And nobody called to tell me that my mother didn't have to bring me to work that night. So she had to explain it to you?

I cut on pretty quick. You were like 14. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't. And so, but I do remember thinking I still loved it. And if I still loved it after all that, I probably really loved it. Yeah. And so in the course of the next couple of years, I auditioned at a theater in Washington, D.C. called New Playwrights Theater.

And it was an actual theater, like it was a good, legit theater. I would audition for them once in a while. And of course, I would never get it because I was too young. But right after I graduated, they rang me up, actually. And they said, Yardley, how come you didn't come and audition for this musical comedy review? And I said, I don't know. I was graduating. I just didn't see it.

So they said, please come. So I went and I got it. And it was sketch comedy. And so I played Little Orphan Annie in a sketch about Annie. I played Cheetah in a sketch about Tarzan and Jane. And I got these reviews like your mother would write. Yeah. Your mother.

They loved you. You were hilarious. I mean, unbelievable. And because of that, they literally went on for paragraphs, which hasn't ever happened since, by the way.

These are comedic roles. Yes. Obviously. Yes. I got an audition at Arena Stage. Now, Arena was the best, you know,

theater in town that didn't have bus and truck shows, right? So it wasn't like the Kennedy Center. They book in the Broadway shows or the National Theater does. But Arena had an actual resident company at the time. But they cast everything out of New York. And so it was very unusual that they would dip into the local pool. And they called me up and I went and auditioned for a Tom Stoppard play, and I got the part.

And although I do remember they said to me, the casting director at the time said, you know, really, the reason we hired you is because you're so inexpensive. Uh-huh. Nice. Because I wasn't a member of the union at Equity at that time. How old were you then? 17. Yeah. And so this is actually great.

This will tie back to your world. While I was at Arena, I did a reading of a play by Louis Black. Oh, yeah. Yeah, called Hitchin. And he loved me in that reading. And we ended up doing that production at a theater in Ohio.

It was called Kenyon Festival Theater at Kenyon College. Yeah. And everybody else in that show is from New York. So all their agents came. I got an agent. I moved to New York two weeks after that show closed. And six weeks later, I was auditioning for Mike Nichols to be in The Real Thing. And did you get it?

I did. But what they didn't tell me when I auditioned was that I was actually auditioning to understudy Cynthia Nixon in the role of the daughter. And I remember when I got it, they told me that it was for the understudy. I'm like, what? No, no. Oh, fuck no. I did not come all the way here to be an understudy. And my agent was like, who are you?

You are going to sit down and shut up and pay attention. Learn those lines. Yeah. And so I was like. Did you ever have to step in? I never. Well, I didn't have to step in because she was sick. But Mike Nichols, we opened on Broadway in 1984, January 84.

And Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close were in that play and Peter Gallagher and Christine Baranski and everybody. I mean, it was a big, big deal. And Cynthia. And so Mike Nichols pulled her out of the real thing after only three months in the run and put her in his production of Hurley Burley. Oh, right. She played the teenage girl. Yeah. So I got to take over the role and that was a huge break for me. But what I didn't know was that understudies almost never take over a role you can make an entire career out of being an understudy yeah if you're reliable and you know the lines and and i was if i had known that i've i mean i don't i would have just imploded right right what yeah again like fuck that noise i am not doing that so

to be able to do it with the original cast, and then I actually stayed on and did it with the cast that changed over. Wow. That was huge. It was huge. And I also, in that time, those two and a half years in New York, I did three movies, and I did an after-school special, and I was really successful in the beginning.

Would you stop it? I know. it's terrible. But things were going sort of the way I had planned. And I do remember when I turned 20 years old thinking, you better keep this trajectory up. Yeah. Because in a couple of years, everybody will expect you to have accomplished all that you have accomplished. So you better not slack off. Who's everybody?

You mean everybody in your head? Yeah, I think so. Well, I mean, what were your parents doing? Were they like into their own worlds or were they supportive? Well, my father, so my parents split up when I was on Broadway. My mother was, she came to everything. She was really supportive. My father, he wasn't around much when we were growing up.

Yeah. And so it really wasn't until actually that review in the Washington Post and the Washington Times. His paper. Yeah. When people started coming up to him going, oh, you're Yardley Smith's father. Yeah. That he really sort of went, oh. Oh, yeah.

Are you doing a thing here? Right, right, right. Oh. Yeah, people are complimenting me. Yes, about you. Yeah, yeah. So everything's going great in New York, and then you come out to L.A., and are you kicked in the pants or what? It was funny when I came to L.A.

and are you kicked in the pants or what? It was funny when I came to LA, I had had all this success in New York and there was definitely the attitude of, so fucking what? Now you got to prove yourself in a different way here. Oh, right. You wasn't like, I'm going to go out there and everyone's going to love me.

No, I thought that, of course. And then they said, you got a thing or two to learn. Right. And so, but I was game. I was like, fuck you. All right, I got you. And. And so, but I was game. I was like, fuck you. All right. I got you. And I looked so, so young when I was, if I moved out here in 85-ish, so I was like 21.

Yeah. I looked like I was 12. And so, I could play everybody's daughter, niece, sister, you name it. And I worked like gangbusters. I came out. I got a pilot. The pilot didn't go, but then I did a bunch of guest spots. I did, I continued to do movies.

And in 86, I think, is when we started to do The Simpsons on the Tracy Ullman show. Yeah, Tracy Ullman, yeah. And I remember thinking, I don't know, what the fuck is this job? VoiceOver wasn't part of my plan for world domination so I really had no interest I'd put no eggs in that basket none it probably didn't even seem like a living

at that point in a way and at that time it wasn't you know it was it was you know whatever it was pre cartoon world domination 100% yeah yeah you know it was we got some scale it was you know whatever it was it was pre-cartoon world domination 100% yeah yeah

so you just did the Tracy Ullman bits the sketches and you met with Matt and I did he would write

he wrote all those scripts and we didn't see a lot of James L. Brooks what about Sam Sam would come up but Sam really

became much more a presence when we went to Half Hour I interviewed him before he passed yeah it was wild Sam would come up. But Sam really became much more a presence when we went to half hour. I interviewed him before he passed. Yeah. It was wild. He was such a, I was happy that he became, he found his calling with the animals.

Oh, yeah, sure, yeah. You know, he was, he didn't, at least when I knew him, he didn't seem to enjoy his success as much as he should. Is it? Considering how much success he was having. Yeah. Well, I mean, it seems to be all of our problems. It does. What are we going to do about that, Mark? I've got to find my animals.

Yes. So you have cats. I know. I've got three cats. I have two cats. That's the extent of my philanthropy with the animals. I also donate money to a tiger rescue operation in North Carolina. Oh, fabulous.

It's kind of wild. It's in North Carolina. They're rescuing actual tigers? Yeah, like domestic wild cats. Right. Because people can buy tigers and they think they're cute and then all of a sudden

they're living with a monster. They're 300 pounds or more. Yeah. A thousand pounds. They get them from like zoos, like crappy zoos or roadside attractions or people that...

Yeah. But yeah, you go out there and you can go see them and everything. And they just kind of take care of these cats. I love that. And I don't know. I've been there a few times. How did you find them? Yeah.

North Carolina Tiger Rescue. Well, I was doing a show out there and someone said, you know, you're a cat guy. You should go out there and look at the Carolina Tiger Rescue. What are you talking about? You go out there. There's fucking lions and tigers. Do you get to roam with them? No.

But they have nice environments and they're fed well. And the people there are good hearted. And it's a very, it's a very specific niche. You know what I mean? Finding people call them up and go like, we just, there were two tiger cubs in this shed.

Can you come get them? God, it's crazy. That's brutal. That's horrible all right so okay so omen happens but you did what you were a regular on a few sitcoms right yeah uh well herman's head i was a regular and then i remember that show was one of the first sitcoms on fox right along with married with children and simpsons right and i remember i was doing both at the same time the simpsons and Herman's Head.

I was never happier because I was completely slammed. Yeah. You know, schedule-wise. Right. And I remember, and I was what they would call a breakout character on that show. On Herman's Head. Yeah. Yeah.

Played Louise Fitzger. And Hank was on that show, too. Yeah. Yeah. And so when that show got canceled after three seasons, I remember thinking, well, this is phenomenal. I have some real momentum. I'll be able to, of course, just migrate to another show.

And that didn't happen. And that was really around the time when things started to slow down considerably. Yeah. I did, after that, get a recurring role on Dharma and Greg, where I played Greg's crabby secretary, Marlene. get a recurring role on Dharma and Greg, where I played Greg's crabby secretary, Martin. But the business was changing, and I didn't know how to adapt. I don't know that there is anything I could have done.

So I would say it was sort of the perfect storm where you had, now movie stars were wanting to do television, because television sort of recognized if we do limited series like they do in Britain, for instance, just 10 episodes like you do with Glow, right? Right. 12 episodes. Then we can get these massive names because they'll commit to four months, but they won't commit to nine months, which is a regular 22 episode season. Right. And also the quality, you you know because directors are coming too i think the sopranos changed a lot yes i agree you know like i was like oh wow this is tv yeah it's amazing and it really changed the landscape of it and so i wasn't enough of

as i was just like i was like a really solid working actor right right who you could always count on but i wasn't a name and so if you're going to get a movie star to be the star now the person who used to star on television is going to be the best friend and the person who used to play the best friend who was me is now going to play the friend of the friend if there is a friend of a friend you know what i mean there was a trickle trickle down then all of a sudden you're a clerk and now exactly and i mean literally right where you're reading for a page. Right.

And I always say it really isn't about the size of the part. But if the part is, if it's not the best one page in the script, or if there isn't something that is really special about it. If anybody who's actually fluent in the English language could read these lines. And do it. Yeah. Yeah. Then fuck it. actually fluent in the English language could read these lines, then do it. Yeah. Then fuck it.

Like, how long do you have to be in the business before you acquire enough equity in order to, A, not have to read for one page and B, actually get to do something that you feel like, yes, I've actually I've paid my dues. I work my ass off. I love my job. Let's do this. Right. Well, oddly, from even A-list people,

they got to read too. Yes. I mean, it's not easy. It's weird. There's such an abundance at this point. Like I said, I don't mind reading, but let's make it something worthwhile. Right, right, right.

You just want it to be. So work really, really started to dry up, and I couldn't. The problem was I stopped even getting auditions. And so if I can't get the opportunity, and I didn't know because I'd never had to, I didn't know how to make opportunities for myself. Right. And I didn't want to. At that time, it was really starting to become clear that you had to be I didn't know how to make opportunities for myself. Right. And I didn't want to.

You know, at that time, it was really starting to become clear that you had to be this multi-hyphenate. You had to be actor, writer, director, actor, producer, writer. You had to, couldn't just be an actor anymore. Right. And I didn't want to do those other things. And so I kind of dug my heels in and I was not smart. And a solid six, seven years passed where I was like, what the fuck is happening? I didn't know. And that's when I did my one-woman show, right?

That's usually the arc of that. Where you're like, all right, I will. I'll do it. And then I thought it was directed by Judith Ivey, who's an amazing actress. She's a great actress, yeah. And was a phenomenal director. And I thought, this will get me more work. And, of course, it didn't.

I did get a great review in the New York Times for it, but that it was too late. And so after that, I ended up, a couple years later, I fired my agent who I'd had for 22 years, and then I couldn't get an agent. But the weird thing is, is like you tell this story, but as all this is going on, you're on The Simpsons. Yes, thank God. But the weird thing is, is because I feel it too, is like when I get an animated, when they want me to come do one, like as a guy, I'm not a real actor though, in the sense I didn't spend my life trying to do that, but you still sort of think like, oh, this

is a nice perk. Yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll go do a voice on a thing. Right. So I think that as an actor, there's some part of your brain that always thinks about it like that. Like, you know, yeah, I do the animated thing. But what about the real thing? Well, again, if you don't, if voiceover isn't even part of your plan, right, for world domination and what you will consider successful, when you get the voiceover, of course, it doesn't count. Right.

It doesn't carry the weight that it actually could and should. Well, when did it start to do that? Yesterday. On your way over? Yeah, on my way over. Because like I said earlier, you do have world domination. And you guys, through whatever victories you had with contract disputes, you clearly are set for, you know, a few lifetimes.

Yes. And, you know, what's sad to me about that, and even at the small level that I have made some money as of late in the last decade, is that you never want to believe that money is not going to make it all go be better. Right. You don't want to believe that. When not going to make it all go be better right well you don't want to believe that when you don't have money you're like you're out of your fucking mind sure if i have money you know it is a big thing off the table like to not have to worry about that it gives you freedom of choice right but then you realize that like you know all my well

great i have freedom of choice but how come my choices are still limited to these nine dumb things that i'm always circling and I've never started? Like, how is the inner dialogue? Well, it doesn't fill up the hole. I know, but- It doesn't, I don't think it takes the questioning away. But what is that?

Is it really questioning or is it just sort of this dumb commitment to discomfort? I mean, what the fuck? Life is short. We're both around the same age. Like, I'm forgetting more things than I'm learning. Yeah. And like a lot of things that were so important at another time in my life just don't they're not anymore so like why is it that i can't just like you know sit with myself without feeling guilty about it or wondering uh you know like is this it right like should i be doing something

else and like is this living and i think that's what i mean when i say oftentimes i don't feel successful yeah i know i get it you know but it's something much more internal than the forward-facing yardley who is embodies this iconic character on this extraordinary show right but that was the only barometer yes hooray we took the box i guess what i'm all of a sudden having issue with is the idea that it's we're having a revelation here that that it's actually a hole i don't know if it's a hole i think it's a sad existential realization that you know life is just what it is it's it's it's fleeting and there is as a control freak you know like there is an end you don't know when it's

going to happen and you know is it supposed to feel like this? There's nothing written anywhere that it's not disappointing. Yet for some reason, people in there, you know, in this sort of as we evolve in this culture of narcissism, believe that this entitlement should at least yield us an amazing feeling. Yes. Right. Yes. But but the truth is, is that like if you look at the history of human beings writing things down and doing things, the struggle for meaning and for it not to be sort of a letdown is eternal. Yes. But yet for some reason, we're going to we're going to say we have these holes. I don't know if it's a hole.

I think it's just the nature of being a person. It feels like a hole to me. I guess. But other people. But we're just those kind of people. You know, we're whatever. We're emotionally hobbled for some reason. And we can't find satisfaction. Right. In the things that of people. Yes. You know, we're, whatever, we're emotionally hobbled for some reason and we can't find satisfaction.

Right. In the things that other people find satisfaction. Isn't that, it feels like a massive failing, doesn't it? No. It doesn't? No, like I'm- See, that makes me feel like, well, Yardley, you're fucking obviously not doing it right. You're just not looking at it right, maybe.

Like I'm 55 and I have no children and i've been married twice and now i'm talking to guys my age that have kids who are in their 20s now and they're like dude you dodged a bullet and i'm like you know like you know like i did something right in my life you know like now that whole part of that the idea of what you're supposed to have done i'm sort of like i made it through the tunnel you know i made it through and i'm on the other side of it. And I don't feel any regret about that. Right. Nor do I. So it's a victory. Yes.

We're all alone with our head. That's right. So now we just got to. There's just a lot of noise in the head. That's all. What can you do? I don't know. Accept it.

Right? I do. I know. I do. I mean, do you. I got out of the house, didn't I? Yeah. Yeah.

And you're not secretly throwing up in a bathroom. That's right. Everything's working out. It's all good. And you can buy things. Yes. So, but do you find over the course of doing Lisa that, you know, in dealing with these great writers and sort of watching that character grow,

have you learned from that anything about life? In the sense that like in your relatability to that character. Yes. I mean, were there life lessons that you processed from that other than that had to do with the job? Yes. I am inspired by Lisa Simpson's resilience. I'm inspired by her optimism.

Yeah. And I do think that playing that character has softened some of my sharper edges. Yeah. that comes the responsibility to carry that with graciousness and to your point, to receive people who need to express to you what you've meant to them. I never take that lightly. And it's sort of to whom much is given, much is expected. And I respect that and I accept that.

Well, that's good. That's a good thing in life. Yes, yes. Well, it was great talking to you. Oh, thanks. Can I plug my podcast? Of course. Oh, yeah.

How's that going? How many have you done? We have 49 episodes so far. Oh, my God. So it's been going a long time. It's actually only been 16 months. Oh. So you banked a bunch and you're just kind of dropping it?

Well, we do about 12 or 14 per season. Uh-huh. And we're about to launch season four on March the 15th. What's it called again? It's called Small Town Dicks. It's a true crime podcast. Oh, okay. And I co-host it with my best friend and co-creator, Zibby Allen, and two identical twin detectives, Dan and Dave.

They're real detectives? Yeah. And all of our cases are told by the detectives who investigated them. And is it a scripted thing? No. Oh. It's amazing. And so Zibi and I actually do very little talking. We're the audience. We get to ask all the questions that you would if you had the opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. But it's and our premise was big time crime is happening in small town USA all over. over right and with the same level of depravity and disregard for human life as in big cities but just with less frequency right

but to people that might know each other and there's a real claustrophobia in that aspect of it right you drive down the street and you go oh i went to school with that guy also arrested him and he's you know blah blah. I just had that this morning. I read an article in Albuquerque. Ten years ago, they found like 11 bodies buried on the West Mesa. And I'm like, I probably went to high school with that guy. Oh, my God. I don't know who it is.

But that was my first thought. I was like, I wonder if I knew the guy that killed him. Right. Because it's a cold case, I guess. Yes, it is. So, I'm really, really, really proud of it. That's great. Yeah, it's pretty exciting.

So look, you're doing like your own thing. I always do my own thing. But this is like what I mean by your own thing is like once you get through and you kind of move through the one person show thing that I know that feeling. Like I have to make something happen. And as performers and as me as a comic who was not doing great at comedy at the time I did some of the one man shows, like you're like, this is really going to be my own thing. But the form itself, you know, it has become a redundancy. So it's problematic, but you don't realize it when you're in it. You know, I'm not even sure what you want out of it, you know, other than the recognition and to process this stuff.

And to be to really fuel that creative fire. Right. And then you do that, and it sort of frees you up to know that you can do that, but it's nice to land on something that you have to refill, and it's yours, and you have control over it. Yeah, it's great.

But hopefully some of your listeners will enjoy, if they're true crime fans. It seems to be very popular now. It really is. It always is kind of popular, actually. It is. I feel like for me, what I like about what interests me about true crime is that it's about trust. You know, society can't function if we don't all adhere to a certain set of rules and values that we actually value.

And so who are these people who are willing to throw all that out the window and derail the train? Well, there's that guy. Fucking hell, dude. And so I like to know that there's also a force bigger than me that can put the train back on the track. And for me, that's these detectives. Well, and that as a metaphor is the nature of hope a metaphor is, is, you know, the, the nature of

hope in a democracy. Yeah, it is. Yeah. All right. Great. Great. Great talking to you. Likewise. What a great conversation. I love her. And she gave me that little, a little, uh, Lisa pin, which I'll cherish. So, folks, don't forget, I'm the guest star on The Simpsons this Sunday, February 17th at 8 p.m. Eastern on Fox. The episode is called The Clown Stays in the Picture. And you'll see my full WTF interview with Krusty the Clown on that show in the animated version, of course, of this garage. So I got to play something special on the guitar, don't I? I do. I do.

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