WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Remembering Fred Willard

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Marc revisits his 2012 conversation with comedic actor Fred Willard, in which they discuss Fred’s career in improv-heavy films and beloved television projects. Fred passed away at age 86 on May 15, 2020. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, it's me, it's Mark. I'm checking in. I talked to you Monday, you know what's going on. It's been a horrible few days, but I think I'm beginning to come out of at least the shock part of it. And it's up and down. It's waves. You know, I've been very busy because so many people have reached out.

I mean, thousands of people have reached out. And I got to tell you, all you people who listen to the show, who reached out, it helps me. And her family appreciates it. The people that love her appreciate it. The outpouring of love and support, sadness, it's helping, and I really want to thank you. I know this is going to be a long haul. I know there's going to be a lot of ups and downs,

but I've been trying to keep busy. I've been trying to make myself available for the family and for whatever needs to be done. Friends have come over to do some social distance sitting with me. And I've gone to one person's house. A couple and another couple came over, friends of mine, and we were out back outside doing the grieving sort of food thing, socially distanced. So there is human connection happening.

There's just several people that I talk to on the phone every day, friends. And then just the outpouring of love from everybody in my business, people who I had no idea would know me or know Lynn. But I just wanted to check in. I can't go on too long. It's been a long day here. It's going to be up and down, but I'm going to try to stay engaged here. be up and down, but I'm going to try to stay engaged here. I have a bunch of shows I recorded before Lynn passed away that we'll get to, but today I actually have another repost, a posthumous

repost for Fred Willard, who died a few days ago on the 15th. He's one of the great comic geniuses, one of the great comedy actors, just a genius. And we had him on the show.. He's one of the great comic geniuses, one of the great comedy actors, just a genius. And we had him on the show, I think we did the interview in early 2012. And it was put up, it was posted on March 15th, 2012.

And it's interesting, I remember doing it, because this is fairly early on in the process of the podcast, and I remember I learned some lesson from him i i couldn't identify it we were listening to the conversation again but there was a a question i'd asked fred that it was a personal question but it wasn't the nature of the question it was you know i can't remember what it was but i just realized in asking it that he had never thought about it the way that I was asking. And I can't remember what it was, but it was just this moment of a gentleman that was already a bit older who was sort of set in his way of thinking and just never thought about what I asked him,

the way I asked him to think about it, and it kind of threw him. And I realized that there's no reason to push this because he can't process it. And it was a moment of boundary and a moment of respect that I really made note of and integrated into how my sensitivity to people evolved. I just remember that. He's a sweet guy, a very funny guy. He talks about his wife a lot. And she passed away in 2018. And I'll be in touch, you guys. I'm going to keep doing this stuff. And thank you for all the support. Thanks for being there. I'll check back with you on Monday.

And this is my conversation with Fred Willard from 2012. Have you done many podcasts, Fred? I have done a few, yeah. It's always a little strange. You never know. Are you being heard? Or when are you being heard? Or what?

It's going into space? But, well, we're recording it. But it must be fascinating that this is part of show business now. Yeah, yeah. This is not streaming. I remember I did something with it. Streaming means it's going out live. No, this is not streaming. I remember I did something with it. Streaming means it's going out live. No, this is not streaming.

But it's pretty close to it. So you're one of the funniest people alive. That's what I tell people, and people kind of look at me funny. I don't know. There's a lot of funny people. But was this always the direction? Was this always the big plan? You know, I was kind of the class clown, as most comics were, as a kid, kind of growing up.

And for some reason, I guess, I don't know if they'd make kind of funny remarks in school. But I didn't know what I wanted to be. I always loved comedy. I think it's just nice to release, to hear a comic and go someplace and laugh. Where'd you come from now? Well, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. When Cleveland was great? It was at the time called the best location in the nation.

You know, they had steamships coming in, and it was a steel town. Because I was just there, and I'll tell you, it's a little sad. It seems to be bouncing back a bit. There's a couple good restaurants, but I could tell it was a great city. At to be bouncing back a bit there's a couple good restaurants but I could tell it was a great city at one time it was pretty booming I think it was like the fourth or fifth largest city in the country

it was right on the Great Lakes we had the Indians and we had the Browns we had big vibrant downtown I don't know what happened I think all the industries kind of folded and everyone moved to the suburbs and now downtown there's the center which used to be called the terminal tower yeah it's now a terminal uh tower city right and then you go about 18

blocks east and there's a lot of theaters some of them that i used to go to as a kid they'd have live shows they'd have a movie and then dannye would be there, or Bob Hope. You saw Bob Hope? I did see Bob Hope. I remember I saw Jack Benny, Danny Kaye. Really? How old were you? I was just a little kid, just old enough to go downtown. I'd always have to have a friend take me.

My mother would say, you're not going downtown by yourself. Parents never realize these great moments. I'd hang out by the Cleveland Stadium if I go to a ballgame. Even if I didn't go to the ballgame, I'd hang out by the visitor's exit, get all the visiting players' autographs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of great... Do you remember seeing comedy? I can't imagine.

So they'd have a movie and a comedian or shorts? Well, it wasn't even the comedians. Well, Danny Kaye, Jack Benny. Yeah. But I don't remember seeing stand-up comics. Was even that a form yet? It was more... I don't...

I think it was for the older crowd. Right. If you go to Miami or Grosingers. Yeah. These older comics always with the tux. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of jewelry on their hands. And I was going to dinner or going to Miami.

I was just in Miami. But I remember what impressed me the most, I don't know if you remember Spike Jonze, the musical act. Well, he was huge. He was huge and very good musically. And I went, I'd heard his records, and his show came through Cleveland. And I went down to see it, and I'd never seen,

it was a comedy review, but it was based on music, and he did takeoffs on songs, Cocktails for Two with sound effects. Right. And he had funny characters, Frederick Gass, and he had a harpist who just sat on the stage, and you'd never, they made a big thing of it, after you noticed the harpist, the woman had never played the harp, she just sat on the stage. And they made a big thing of it. After you noticed that the woman had never played the harp, she just sat there. And I was just amazed. This is comedy I'd never seen before.

And they were doing it for radio, so you were watching a stage play almost? Well, I think he was doing his radio show, but I think he also did a stage performance. Because I remember he had a joke. He had a dwarf who came running across the stage pulling a rope yeah and you watch the dwarf pull the rope and you kept watching the rope kept moving and here comes the dwarf again in the back end and as a kid you'd never seen it was like a

another dimension of comedy that was your first dwarf experience yeah well and cleveland you didn't know i mean you didn't know dwarfs you didn't know what but uh up until then the jokes were the uh my mother-in-law drove my cadillac off a cliff mixed emotions and which was funny to me it's all mixed emotions i see clever yeah but i always wanted uh i always liked comedy it's kind of a release i guess i was always kind of a a worried kid and i still worry a lot about things. So it gave you some relief. Relief. And my parents were not very, it was not a laugh-filled household.

No. But I had aunts and uncles who were funny. Thank God. Oh, they'd come over, and my mother was very, calm down, my father. What did you mean? I heard from school today that you had a lot of panic around yeah

but I had these wonderful aunts and uncles that would come over my one uncle would pretend to steal silverware so I've always laughed at that what kind of racket was your father in

I'm not sure he worked for something called Morris Plan Bank. It was something about automobile financing. But he passed away when I was fairly young, which is always very emotional. I was like 11 or 12 years old, and he died. And that was a really tough age. It's like a big dose of reality, because you don't know.

No one's going to die. Great-grandma died. She was really old. She was 75. Right, right. Nowadays, 75 doesn't seem that old. Right. Well, she's a kid.

Yeah. So that was a big void. Yeah. Yeah. So then I wanted even more laughs than anything that would be funny. Right, right. So when you left Cleveland, I mean, you grew up there, and then what was the next

step for you next step let's see i went off to uh i was sent away my mother remarried uh to the wicked stepfather and they decided that send me away to a prep school military school and i went away to a little one my last two years in in high school which turned out to be a lot of fun it was in kentucky it's no longer there yeah but in the winter the selling point is they moved the whole school down to venice florida oh okay for three months yeah and that was so great to be in florida and then um so then i i decided to go i said this is kind of fun and i took some kind of iq test i turned out or some test i had the highest grades or the highest iq of anyone in the school because these were a lot of times the kind of kids that are sent there because they're not doing well.

Sure. And I'd gone to a very tough high school in Cleveland. Keep them out of jail. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they were quite on the brink of jail, but it was either that or go in the Army or go get a job delivering groceries. Yeah.

So I was one of the brightest students. So I went to a place called Virginia Military Institute. Wow. Which was a lot tougher than I thought it would be. Was that like West Point? Yeah. So everyone was in uniform? Yeah, yeah.

But I played sports there. Which sport? Baseball. And I got into cross country, which is a tough sport. Running? Running. Yeah. About five miles.

That was a tough sport. Yeah. Indoor tracks. Well, you look like you're in pretty good shape now. I still am. I still try to be, and I'm still hoping to maybe if they have a couple of more expansion teams. I've given up hopes of playing in the big leagues, but a couple of years in the minors

maybe. Why not? There's never too late for that kind of thing. Double A or something. Live that dream. Yeah, I don't want to be a DH, but first base, maybe play five or six innings and take the rest of the day off. That would be fun. But then, you know, I always wanted to be a baseball player, but then you go out.

First you see all these terrible injuries. Yeah. Then you realize there's guys that aren't on the first string, and they come out to the ballpark every day and sit on that bench for nine innings. Yeah. And then they're going to be sent down. Then they're sent down. Then they're hitting 170. I said, I don't know.

That wouldn't have been, I don't think I would have liked to have done that. I'm kind of glad I never got wrapped. You know, as a kid, you always think you'll hit 350 and be a big star. Be a hero. How hard can it be? Yeah. You throw the ball over the plate. Yeah.

Yeah. So did you end up going in the military or how did that pan out? Which branch? Army? Navy? It was the Army. Oh, yeah. And I think it was artillery. Because at the time there was a draft.

So I'm taking it you didn't have to do anything if you think it was artillery. No, I didn't. There was no firing guns or anything. I got in some special thing. But I got to play. I was sent to Germany, and I went out for the baseball team. And I made the baseball team. So it paid off. And the good thing is we were stationed in Germany and went all around all these different cities playing baseball.

You know, Berlin and Hamburg. What year was that, you think? Oh, it was in the early 60s. Okay. And I don't think there's any military in Germany anymore. I'm sure the Germans hated us. Well, they all used to be, it seemed like a lot of people spent time there. Elvis was there.

Germany was a big base for us, right? Yeah, we occupied Germany. So it was a little pre-Vietnam. You didn't end up going anywhere? No, I didn't go. And then I came back, and I said, now what will I do?

Yeah. I think I'll be an actor. That can't be too hard. Because you'll see him in the movies. I can act, and I went to an acting school. You did? I did, an acting school.

And when you go around to New York at the time, everyone had scene study. We're going to do scene study and mime. And I said, well, do you ever put on a show and invite agents? Oh, no, no, no. We just study. Yeah. So I finally found a place called Showcase Theater. And I said, what do you do?

They said, well, every 10 weeks. Yeah. They were very theatrical. Yeah. And we put on a show. The show He said, well, every 10 weeks. Yeah. They were very theatrical. Yeah. And we put on a show. The show was in their apartment. It was in their, they had up a stage in their living room. A salon.

Yeah. Yeah. It was like a salon. Yeah. And we invite, you know, professional people. So I said, this is for me. So I got in there and I did. And I find that you can't really teach acting with the best tool

is to just get up and do scenes and you can kind of tell yeah if you're doing good or not sure our acting teacher would drive me nuts he was a he was you'd get up you'd memorize a scene and you get up on stage and you get one line out and he'd stop you oh god all right now I want some business do something I want to say Jesus let me just go through the scene once and um business twitching what are you doing what is your intent here um so but i i met another guy who had a good sense of humor we started joking around and we saw an ad in in the trade paper you know the trades and the new york uh off-broadway show uh is in development like backstage or something like

that yeah the casting office says please do not come in person do not send pictures do not phone why do they why are they what's what he's supposed to do yeah there was a ad we're doing a show comedy actors wanted so we went in it was on 45th street the rehearsal hall no longer there and the guy said uh do you have your own material? We said, no. He said, well, come back with a sketch. So every week we'd write a sketch and come back, and they never put on the show, but finally we had so many sketches,

the guy said, let's put on a show with just you guys. So we did a show. Who was the other guy? His name was Vic Greco. Still in the game? No, I don't think so. He's in New jersey or new york huh and um but a very funny man and he made me laugh and we was he was uh they said he was like ned sparks if you remember that a guy with a cigar he was right sour face and um

it made me laugh and eventually we got an agent and we you know just developed from there we got to do the show? The show? They never did it. We did our own show. Yeah. And then we started working the coffee houses in the village. Together. Which was the big thing.

Yeah. We'd get up and do, we'd just do sketches, which was, I guess it was unusual. We never talked to the audience. So like the bottom line and the, what else was down the village? The village gate or anything like that? Oh, the village gate. We played the gaslight. Oh, yeah. Sure. Pop Dylan played. Yeah, yeah. down the village uh uh the the village gate or anything like the village gate we played uh the gaslight oh yeah sure dylan played yeah yeah who was around the scene then so well i thought bob

dylan was working there peter paul and mary you saw them uh no uh who did i a lot of folk singers and not many comedians was woody allen walking i'm trying to think yeah he was but i think we're a little after him. Yeah. So was this like 69? Oh, no, no. Earlier than that. It was the early, wait, middle 60s.

So it must have been pretty crazy down there. It was great. It was just a great time. We played in a little club called the Cafe Chino, which I thought was named after Cappuccino or something. The guy's name was Joe Chino. And every week he'd do an original little one-act play. And now it's a restaurant.

You go and it's a little tiny place, but they did one-act plays, or we'd do our sketches. Get a good response? Oh, great. We had very kind of offbeat stuff, new stuff. Do you remember any of it? Oh, yeah. I'm still pulling some of it out and doing it places.

Really? Well, we had one that's easy to describe. I would come out and say to the audience, or I'd just say, I've put my wristwatch on my ankle. And I'm going to wait to have someone come by and get them to ask me what time it is. So I'll pull up my pant leg and say, oh, look, it's 4.30. And here comes a guy now. And the guy came by. He's waiting for a bus. I leg and say oh look it's 4 30 and here comes a guy now and the guy came by he's waiting for a bus i'd say gee it's a nice time of day it's getting darker yeah yeah i said i'm waiting for this bus is it late uh yeah i don't know i said what time

is the bus supposed to i'm supposed to be here at five and finally i said look do you have any idea what time it is now and he pulled up his pant leg and his watch was it's 4 15 and that was the blackout. Yeah. And we did some stuff in clubs. I remember one club owner, we auditioned, and afterwards he said to our manager, it's obscure humor. They're doing obscure humor. Because also at the time, the popular was after Martin and Lewis.

So there were a lot of acts where the guy played a trumpet, and then the other guy did the comedy. Hey, hold on there. What are you doing? So you've got a wacky guy and a trumpet, and then the other guy did the comedy. Hey, hold on there. What are you doing? So you've got a wacky guy and a straight guy. So I think one of our problems was neither one of us was the wacky guy. They're just little sketches. Right, right. It wasn't a team dynamic.

It was just vignettes. In one sketch, I'd be the dumb guy in the other sketch. Sure. So it was hard to sell that act as a nightclub act in some ways. It was. And we would go into a club and bomb and go to the next club and just be great. We went into the old Hungry Eye in San Francisco. So you really toured with this. Yeah, yeah.

And at the time, there were only about six comedy clubs. There was the Hungry Eye in San Francisco, the Gate of Horn in Chicago. All those places are gone now. The Bitter End in New York was still there. Still there, kind of. And there were five or six others, and we'd make that tour. And the two of you, you did what?

You had like about an hour or what? Yeah. And they have an opener? We didn't improvise at all. We'd open for some acts. Other times, other acts would open for us. Huh, and you don't like who was around or any of those opening acts or miriam makiba does that mean yeah yeah sure she's very pretty kind of african

yeah she's a folk singer right yeah yeah she passed away yeah and one day uh this is not a censored show as i just want to tell you what some we were in in washington dc in a club we were rehearsing and we were very ambitious. We go into a club, and we opened one night. And the next day, we're in the club coming up with new material. And a guy came in, and he was watching us. He kept watching us. And he said, I loved your show last night.

I said, oh, yeah, it was pretty funny. He said, I love that Miriam Akiba. I said, oh, yeah, she was good. He said, I'd really like to fuck her. We said, oh, yeah, well, she was very. He said, I'd really like to fuck her. We said, oh yeah, well she was very good. We thought he was there to watch our show. So anyway... Like you were going to say,

okay, let me go get her. Yeah, yeah, we'll put in a word for you. But we'd go in a club that the Smothers Brothers had played in and I'd seen their act and they were so good with music and I thought, geez, all we did is these sketches.

But people still will come up to me and remember we had a sketch where two mathematicians were having coffee and talking about Bernoulli's theory of physics and talking about the big convention of mathematicians. And the last year was wonderful because Professor So-and-so requested once, twice, three times a lady. But then it turns out we're trying to pay the check. Let's split the check. And it was $24.50 and we couldn't figure out what half of $24.50 was.

So we left a tip. We'll leave 10% and we walked out and the waitress comes out and says, Professors! Oh dear, they left me $100. Yeah, dumb guys. And I'd forgotten that, but someone reminded me of it. And, you know, I'm still part of a sketch troupe. My wife and I run it.

We just did a show last night at the Second City Theater in Hollywood. And about once a month we have a group of about 40 people, and at any one time there's 15, 20, and we do an evening of sketches. And every once in a while someone will remind me and say, you know, I saw you in the village. Remember that thing you did about the mathematicians? Really? No, I don't remember.

Then I'd think about it, and then I'd rewrite it, and we'll do it, and then they go over very well. We did one last night that I pulled out of the thing. It's a ship, you know, one of those ships where they're all rowing, heaving. There's a guy whipping them. Yeah, it's a slave ship, I think. A slave ship. And the guy's like, heave, heave.

So we say, it's time to mutiny. Are you ready? Are you with me? We're going to take over the ship. So mutiny, we grab the slave driver. We tie him up, and we get back to the horse, and everyone's out of focus. You know, heave, ho. No, you've got to pull together.

Land is one mile north by nor'ease so i said well no we need someone to lead us i cannot do it who can and someone says let's set him to it the guy who was whipping us let him free and he starts whipping us and i say ah free we're free at last but it's a good audience you know it's a a strong piece sure and this was something that was something you wrote with Greco? Actually, it was something I did in the next group. I went to Second City in Chicago for a year. So you toured, you started in New York. We toured for a couple of years, and it's tough when you're working with one guy.

Now, you work alone. Yeah. So when you go off the stage, if you bomb, I don't know, you probably very seldom bomb, but if you do, you probably hopefully say, oh, it was the audience, or screw it, you have friends. If it's a two-man team, you kind of think the other guy screwed up. Why did you screw up? So it gets tense. So you needed more people to blame.

Yeah. So eventually we broke up. Now, I wrote all the material. Oh, there you go. I wrote all the material, and we never wrote it down, and we did it. But he was unhappy. He had a wife and kids, and he had a lot of responsibilities. We broke up. I got hired to go to second city it's a long story we we went in i went

in an audition with robert klein when that was how big was second city then it was it wasn't as big as it is today it had opened on broadway it got a big acclaim alan arkin barbara harris severin darden was ed asner involved or that was before that shelly berman and ed asmers calls the compass players okay um i did not know them but the in the early 60s they came to broadway with a review with a review and it was the smartest stuff you'd ever seen you saw it oh my god alan arkin was in it alan arkin barbara harris smart they all had beards and they were talking about uh but it was all comedy all All comedy. Because Alan Arkin is hilarious. Oh, yeah. And so eventually they were casting...

And one year they... I teamed up with another guy and another guy to try to get the old act going. It just wasn't working the same. Same bits? Yeah. And they'd... Was there moments where you're like, I miss Greco? Oh, my God, yeah.

Yeah? No one else was as funny, but... Because he kind of built the groove with him. He just didn't want to work with him. So I went down to audition for Second City. They'd seen us when we'd been in Chicago. So they went, and I said, I told my agent, I can't do that stuff. It's very bright.

It's talking about Kierkegaard. Too smart. So I went down. Luckily, I just hit a vein there where I got up. They get two of us up. We improvised. And they offered me a job. And, of course, well, I'm not sure.

I don't know. I'm doing something else. So they gave me a week to think about it. And I went begrudgingly and had the greatest time of my life. I went for six months, and then they extended me for another six months with Robert Klein. So this was the crew? Bob Klein, yeah. David Steinberg.

Wow. From Canada? Yeah. He's a director now. Yeah. And Bob Klein's still doing comedy. You talk to Robert Klein still? Not as much as I'd like to.

He lives in New York. I'm a big fan. I love him. Who else was in that crew? No one you'd know. Sandra Karen, who's living in England. Judy Grobart. Wonderful.

She was like an Elaine May. Very goofy, funny. And she married a guy named Bob Dishy, a former Second City guy. Then I went back to New York. What year was that now? Where were we at? This was 70. Okay.

So Klein had not done stand-up yet. No. And I influenced him he he would in the dressing room he would do these funny bits he'd always do it get to be christmas and he'd lean up against the wall and say what is christmas to me i got no mother i got no father you know do james dean yeah and he'd make me laugh and and i'd and every night i come in and bob christmas are you looking forward to christmas it's like a kid. Yeah, you're setting him up. Christmas, what is Christmas to me? And no one had even expanded.

So one day I said, Bob. He was Bob then. I guess it was another Bob Klein. Oh. So he had to change his name eventually to Robert. And he told a very funny story. He was an actor, a struggling actor's story. Got a call.

Bob, you've got to come in. I've been looking for you. Where are you where have you been so he said oh okay so he went to the agent's office she looked at me she's oh no i i meant bob klein the other yeah the other bob klein um and i would say bob you must do this on stage because i i couldn't do stand-up i'm very easy in sketch i'm awkward instead i said you got to do stand-up yeah he says i tried it. So about a year or two later, I went back, and he was in a play called The Apple Tree. And I went out with him to the Stage Deli.

Yeah. And I said, Bob, what have you ever done about your stand-up? He said, funny you ask. Jack Rollins, the manager, is managing me, and he wants me to do stand-up. In fact, I'm going down to the Improv tonight to do it. Come on down to the street. On 44th Street, the original Improv. Bud Friedman.

So where, not Ethel Merman, Bette Midler was a waitress. Sure, sure. Andy Kaufman was probably there at that time, or maybe a little before him, huh? Because they still had a cabaret sort of feel, right? Yeah. At that time, were there singers? Yeah, waitresses would get up and sing.

Oh, boy. And I don't know if Andy... I think it was before his time. I'm more aware of Andy Kaufman in L.A. in improv. It's amazing how much you've seen. So you sort of influenced Robert Klein a little bit to do stand-up. Yeah. And at Second City.

Now, before you went to Second City, you were primarily working from script and material, and now you're sort of known as one of the great improvisers. So where did that happen? Well, at Second City, everyone was improvising. So then I got a call. They were putting together a comedy group, and I was in an off-Broadway play now in the village, Little Murders, which was directed by Alan Arkin.

So you worked with him. I worked with him. As a director, he was such a great director. He'd sit there. He's very noncommittal. He'd look at the stuff. He said,

this is a great show. He said, I don't care what the... He says, fuck the critics. It's a great show. And about three weeks in rehearsal, he says,

I don't know what to do. We're ready to open. And someone had to leave to do something. Go, go. We're all ready. And I loved him. He was so supportive. And one night at a preview, Mike Nichols came in.

Now, this was the peak of Mike Nichols. It was now directing. Oh, so the graduate? Yeah. I think he'd just done Catch-22. So it was like 1971 or something? 71 is when it was. Okay.

And he came to see me. We were at a party afterwards, and Mike Nichols came up to me. And he said, hey, I really enjoyed your stuff. Where have you been? And I said, well, I've been doing sketch stuff. He said, yeah, I really enjoyed your performance. In this one scene, have you thought of being more something like concise? And I said, that's a good idea. i'll think about i didn't know what he

meant so the next day i i said to alan was rehearsal i said mike nichols said should i be more uh concise thinking alan would know of course he's how dare mike nichols give you a direction i'm the director you're doing it just right. So I said, boy, does he have confidence. So anyway, I got into a group call. They were getting together down at the Bitter End called the Ace Trucking Company. I said, yeah, that would be fun. We're going to do sketches after the show at midnight.

I said, that's great because I'm doing this play right down the street. I still have some sketch ideas from Second City. So we get up and we do these sketches that I would come up with the sketches. But the guys in the group were so funny, they'd flesh them out. And then we'd improvise. And I guess that's how I... But then we started getting jobs. And the guy who...

I'm failing with names here. Dave Fry. Remember Dave Fry? I don't know if I... He was right there. Nixon. guy who, I'm failing with names here, Dave Fry. Remember Dave Fry? I don't know if I. He was right for Nixon. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was famous for the Nixon. Right.

His manager came to see us. Yeah. And we were thrilled. And he took us over. Managers got us on the Sullivan Show. We didn't even have a name. How many were there of you? There were four guys and a girl.

Isn't that amazing that that happened on late night television night television yeah because you would never see that now that that ed sullivan would say now here's a group of kids yeah they're doing a little thing and whatever they yeah there were no but we started then there were a whole bunch of improv sketch groups i know with funny names oh my god new york stickball coming uh outer space baseball i had no no idea. And we did it. We did very well. We did Sullivan. We got on the Tom Jones show. And this went on for several... We would do a show.

It would be like 40 minutes of set material. Then we'd open up for improvs. We'd ask for... We'd find the best thing. What are your pet peeves? And people would say, my pet peeves are the... We'd do a little improv about it and it was a fail-safe thing because if the improv wasn't going well one of the guys put on a little uh tiara and he had a wand and he walked out he said i'm the bad improv fairy and i claim this improv is over and i get a huge laugh and then we close

with a set piece and uh the next thing i know, I was being asked, I did a lot of things and I got a call from Christopher Guest once to come down. And my manager, you've got to go down right away. I said, well, I'm doing something. Well, he wants to put you in a movie. I said, well, what's the hurry? Well, no, he wants to see you today. So I knew Christopher Guest.

I knew who he was. I'd been in Spinal Tap with Christopher Guest. Right. But what happened to Fernwood Tonight in that period? That was late 70s, so that must have come later. Yeah, Fernwood Tonight. I mean, like, because that... Martin Mull.

That's right. I skipped about six years there. Yeah, but that's like... The prison years, which... Because that sort of set a new standard for television comedy. Yeah. Because I have vague memories of that, because I was about 13 or 14, and it was on late, right?

Wasn't it? Yes, it was. It was syndicated. So it was on 11 o'clock here, 7 o'clock somewhere else. And I was still a kid. But I just remembered that there was this buzz around something different, that something different was happening. What was the premise of it?

It was, if you remember... A local talk show? A local show in a little town called Fernwood, which was the home of Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. And that became a spinoff, correct? Someone said, wouldn't it be funny if they had a cable TV show in this town? What would it be like? Now, three or four people have talked to me and said it was their idea.

I don't know whose idea it was. But they called me to come in and do it. And you were the sidekick to Martin Maul. I was the sidekick. Who was a hilarious guy. Oh, my God. I didn't know him, but I'd gone to see him in a club. And I said, boy, this guy is very sharp.

You know, he didn't take easy, he didn't make easy references. Yeah, yeah. And they said, you'll be the Ed McMahon. I said, why do I? I don't want to be. That would be a cliche. Really? Did you? And I went in.

I said, you know, I started naming people that would do better than me. And they said, no, no. Everyone says you'll be right. Look, if you don't want to do it, just come in for a week during the rehearsals, the warm-up rehearsals, until we get someone else. I said, okay. So sit in. So I sat in, and we laughed so hard, and it was so funny.

How did you develop that character? Because with Fernwood Tonight, at some point, this always fascinates me with improv actors and guys who do character work, is that there's something. I don't know if I've been able to get anyone to really define it, but there's something you do that you know is funny. That there's a... I mean, I guess it's just something happens from...

But when you improvise, you've just got this tone. Like, I think in Ferdinand Tonight, you kind of played it a little, like, dumber than you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I play a clueless... kind of a clueless guy who has no... It's almost like the what? Me worry guy.

Right. Which I love to do because I'm just the opposite. I worry about everything. Right. Things are... Oh, God, what happened? Like today, I just had such a day. I've changed my accountant.

My first accountant retired unexpectedly. Tax period last year was a nightmare. The new people... Yeah. I got a new accountant. I'm suddenly getting a call from some uh some company uh that i've got to have some kind of tax thing in by october 16th so i had to rush in i got this new accountant i said what we're just going to leave to go out of town for three weeks i said what's the worst if i don't get this thing in

there's no tax oh yeah he's well the penalty is a hundred dollars a day i said oh god we're going to be gone 21 days i don't't want to pay $2,100. So I had to rush over to that. I got home. My wife can't find her passport. Oh, geez. What did you do with my passport? So then I came here.

I got lost coming here. So I worry about everything. So I'd love to be the kind of guy who just, you know, I don't have a passport. I'll go through customs, and I'll tell them who I am. I don't have a driver's license. Hi, I'm Fred. I'd love to be that kind of guy. You're not. I'm not. You hide it very well.

I would never have assumed that about you. That you're just toiling in panic all the time. I'm constantly expected to be T-boned. I was coming home. It was quite a rainy day. Constantly expecting a truck to come out and get T-boned. I worry about that, but I worry about that when I walk into my house.

For some reason, I have this concern that I'm going to walk into my house, I'm going to open the door, and someone's just going to push me or just run into me. But it's crazy. Do you ever have that panic where you're sleeping and you're going to get hit in the head? Sleeping? Yeah. There's a new one for you where I'm just laying in bed and someone's going to come and hit me in the head. Now you've put that in my mind. No. But you know what i'm nervous when when my wife is is away yeah i'm

never nervous at home but when your wife is gone it's just me and i'll then i'll start locking the front door no guns in the house no gun no no no guns no i got a knife or what am i gonna do it and i don't think i'd use it on some i think i'd reason with with them. Look, I could never be a cop, I don't think. I watch these cop shows. And the poor guys, they're always finding someone with a little marijuana. And the poor guy's saying, oh, man. I think I'd say, oh, go ahead. You know, when they beg the cop, no, no, please.

I'd say, oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I think what I'd arrest are the guys that don't signal. I give them a ticket. The guys that don't signal a turn. And you're sitting behind them, and then they put on the turn. Then I might give them a ticket to guys that don't signal a turn. And you're sitting behind them, and then they put on the turn. Then I might give them a ticket. But the poor guy with a little marijuana.

Is marijuana legal? It seems to be legal. It's not legal. You can buy some down the street. You need some? No, no, thanks. That was never your bag? But they're always arresting someone for marijuana.

I don't know. I don't know if it happens as much as it used to, not with these dispensaries everywhere. But like back in the 60s, it wasn't your thing either, hanging around? No, I never really did. No, I never. I took marijuana once. I didn't like inhaling because I'm not a smoker. I'll smoke an occasional cigar.

But inhaling marijuana, it hurt my lungs. Yeah. I took Coke once. Yeah. Doc Severinsen, we were doing the tonight show he came home he gave us a little bit everyone a little bit of coke in the hallway and i sniffed sniffed it up my nose and everything swelled up and it felt like a lot i get a lot of respiratory problems i said no i don't need this you didn't get the good part i did not like it

uh that's so funny so back in the day in the 70s like was everyone was hopped up everyone was hopped up but me no how many situations were you in where everybody was and a lot of times i didn't know it i thought i was having a good time and having fun i was having a good time i will i will uh i'll have a drink or two you know i like a drink and uh occasional cigar. Now, what concerns me, because we're flying. Yeah. Where are you going?

Well, we're actually going. I'm doing a job in London, which should be very exciting. It's with the people who did Whose Line Is It Anyway? What it is, they're going to have a celebrity. I'm going to be the host interviewing the celebrity. And there's going to be four or five improvisers. And, you know, well, I went to, my first day I went to high school and I forgot, my pants fell down. I'd say, hey, guys, let's reenact that scene where Tom Hanks walked into high school.

He didn't have a belt on. Oh, I get it. And then they'd act it out. It's like what they call ASCAT over at the UCB is where they have somebody do a short monologue, and then the improvisers sort of take off from there. It's like that, yes. Interesting. And I hope they don't hear about that because then they'll get – I'm so surprised they asked me.

And I said, gee, this is great. I did a show like it a couple of years ago in New York. Yeah. And the improvisers, you have such respect for the guys. I mean, they just get up and improvise. Some of them are very quick. Oh, my God. So anyway, we're going over to do it.

I'll be there two weeks. But my wife and I are going to go to Berlin for a few days beforehand because we were there a year ago, two years ago, and we're only there a couple of days and really loved it. It's a very unique city. It's almost all demolished. I'm a big fan of World War II. I love all the history of World War II.

Yeah. And there's a few buildings left, and the Brandenburg Gate is there. And now you can go to both sides without any problem. You can, yeah. And all they talk about now is where the wall used to be, the wall. And I think that's, Sonon asked, well, where was Hitler? They don't want to talk about him, but they'll talk about the wall. Oh, so look at that.

The wall coming down erased Hitler. But I've got to go by, and I didn't get the chance to see where his bunker used to be. They built apartments over it. Really? That's got to be a weird place to live. It must be. If you believe in that kind of stuff. I think, I have a feeling that people who live there know, and it's kind of weird.

It would have been better if it was like a Jewish retirement hospital. Something of significance. Look, there's some history to this. A lot. I'll give you a good price. Well, what could possibly be? No. The bunker was right.

Well, if that's where he ended, then this is where we start. That's right. That's where they won. All right. So Fernwood Tonight was really, because I remember that it just felt like at that time, things were changing in comedy. There was a little more freedom. It was a little because I remember that it just felt like at that time, things were changing in comedy. There was a little more freedom. It was a little weirder.

And there seemed to be a new crew in town, because SNL started not long after that. Right about that time, yes. And it just seemed like the whole thing was busting open in the mid to late 70s. Yes. And you were part of that crew. That's right. And then along came Monty Python.

We were in London. We got to go to london to do uh the tom jones show and one night we're all sitting around i had a dinner party what was he like tom jones could have been greater i loved his voice i love his music he loves these old 50s songs yeah pixies also and they bring him over he's just a blue collar guy yeah and they put him in one of our sketches and he'd stand there and he we'd do it for him once. He'd get in, and he'd play along. He knew his lines. Complete gentleman.

I just love him. And I'm always a big fan. We were on the show once. Little Richard was on the show. And there we were, five Americans sitting in this rehearsal room. There's Little Richard, and we were all trying to be cool. And Little Richard is up playing, please send me some loving and tom jones gets up to sing a duet with him the only one i could think of who could hold his own next to little yeah yeah and at the end of the the rehearsal

uh richard could we have a photo with you oh sure everyone won't want to have a photo with me he was just a great guy yeah and then a funny story uh My wife and I went out for dinner, and I'm still kicking myself. The next day they said, you should have stuck around. Little Richard invited us up to his hotel room. I said, I can't believe it. We were up there. We had drinks. Little Richard went in the other room and brought out a book of just pictures of women's vaginas.

And you met Little Richard. They said it was so weird. and he showed us these pictures. So then he said, maybe I shouldn't have been there. But just to sit in a room with Little Richard. Little Richard looking at vaginas. With him probably saying, like, why can't I like these? Trying to get myself to like these. Yeah, yeah.

It's not what you assumed about him, but maybe he had a fascination. But it's just weird when they're just separate from the body, just vaginas. Yeah, that was the weird thing. That's quite a party. That little Richard, huh? He throws a party. And then the guys, then we were coming back to L.A., and the guys were going to Stockholm. And I couldn't go.

My wife wanted me to come, and we just had a baby. So I flew home. And I said, get me some of that pornography. Is it Stockholm or Sweden? Sweden. Sweden where they have. Yeah, the Swedish. So they brought me a pornographic magazine.

My wife didn't like that. Next thing I said, what happened to it? I threw it out the window. Yeah. I said, oh, no, my pornography. One pornography I had. I should have gone to Little Richard's room. So Monty Python was popular at that time?

Well, oh, we tuned on, and here's this Monty Python. Right. We'd never seen anything like it. Because they were only in England at that time. Yeah. Yeah. And then we decided, we said, you know what we should do? We should get hold of their material and do some of their material and our material on

an American TV show. So we got our agent. We tried to talk in American. And then we took it down to some network to buy it. And we showed them a Monty Python. And they looked at it. They didn't laugh. They said, oh, it's like Laugh-In.

And we said, oh, they just didn't get Monty Python. How could they compare Monty Python to Laugh-In? So a year later, we heard that Time Life bought Monty Python and then the rest is history. Did you ever meet those guys? I met Eric Idle through doing Best In Show. I worked at, my partner

in that show, judging the dog show, was Jim Piddick, a wonderful English actor. You were hilarious in that. Thanks, yeah. And we were at a party and he knows Eric Idle. He knows all these guys. So I met Eric Idle and I'll sit and I don't know whether it's more exciting to sit with Little Richard or Eric Idle.

When you realize what Eric Idle, he wrote, not only was with Monty Python, but wrote the nudge, nudge, wink, wink. He was the guy who did it. And he's just a regular, just a bridge. We sit and talk for a long time and he tried to get me to do Sp just a bridge. We sit and talk for a long time. And he tried to get me to do Spamalot.

He wanted me to be Spamalot. And I couldn't do it. And I would not have been as good. Who did they use the guy from Rocky Horror Show? Tim Curry? Tim Curry was it. And then they wanted me to replace him. And I said, I just can't. I was so flattered they wanted me to do it.

I couldn't do that. Tim Curry had a great voice. It's interesting that throughout your career and as you talk about it, that you always sort of – because in my mind, working with Alan Arkin, even for a little while, to me it's like, that must have been fucking mind-blowing. It was great, yeah. And then to see where he went and then where you went, and you both did all right. You're both very respected. But you still had this thing where it's like with comedians, like someone like Eric Idle,

you're like, oh, my God, it's Eric Idle. And you feel that. You're a fan of his work. Yeah. And you joke for a minute or two, and he jokes. And then afterwards, let me just have a serious conversation with this guy. Yeah, yeah. He's probably heard all the jokes.

Right. Nothing I can say can make him laugh. He's very nice. If I say something, he'll laugh. But then I get off on another subject we talk about people in england and you know now was the real people thing because i i definitely have conscious memories from that real people was interesting i got a call one day from george schlotter sure who had done speaking of laughing and everything else george schlotter what yeah i'm doing the show called real people i saw you on fernwood tonight and you you talk to crazies like they're normal,

and that's what I want to do. And I said, well, okay. But he wanted real crazies. Yeah, he got real crazies. And I've always wanted to talk. You know, if you find someone on the street who's nuts, I try to make a real conversation to see what they're – I always have a feeling they have something in their mind that they're trying to express.

I found out that most of them don't. But he told me about the show. If they had a little more focus, they probably wouldn't be talking to the wall. So he told me about the show. And it was NBC. And it was going to be six. And I said, well, okay. So I did six of them and it wasn't

quite as cutting edge as i thought yeah because it seemed like for you uh to it didn't really weren't able to use your chops yeah and then i found out i was going to doing a lot of stories and he was editing the i had a friend who was an editor on the show and he said i saw the funniest stories come in and when they came out they cut you so much and then the show, and he said, I saw the funniest stories come in, and when they came out, they cut you so much. And then the show would always end up with, it's time has come to say goodnight. We want to do,

and God bless. And it was a little too American Pie, and American, and my wife said, you don't want to do that show. Don't do that. So you only did six? No, I did six,

and after a couple of years, then of course the show skyrocketed. It was you, Skip Stevenson, Byron Allen, and who a couple of years, then of course the show skyrocketed. It was you, Skip Stevenson, Byron Allen, and who else? Wasn't Byron Allen? Not at first. I think Byron did come on. Bill Rafferty.

Yeah, Bill Rafferty. Bill Rafferty. From San Francisco. From San Francisco. Oh, yeah. And you know who else was on? The little guy from... Sarah Purcell. Sarah Purcell.

Yeah. The little guy from The Christmas Story, who's now a big producer-director. Peter Billingsley. Okay. He's the cutest little kid, the most precocious little kid. And, of course, I left it, and the show skyrocketed. After you left? Yeah, of course.

And about three years in, I'm a big baseball fan, and I read an article about this ball player. He played in the major leagues with one arm. His name was Pete Gray. And I read a story that he still lived in this little town in Pennsylvania and played golf. He was in his 70s. I called George Schlatter. I said, George, I would love to come back to just do a story on this guy.

He played for the St. Louis Browns in 1945. He's a one-armed player. He played, he had like 240, 250. It was wartime, but he held his own. And George said, that's a great story. I used to be a member of the Knothole Gang in St. Louis. He said, we'll line up the story. So then he called me a few days later, and he says, this guy doesn't want to do the story.

He doesn't want to. They're doing an old story of his life, and he's a curmudgeon. He hangs out in a bar. But come on in. I'd like to talk to you about doing a few shows. So I went in, and I did about 10 or 11 shows that year. Oh, good. For very good money.

And I didn't know what was wrong with me. It was good money, and I enjoyed myself. And then the next year, I said, you know, I'm going to do it the whole year. Really make good money. But good money, it was like, at the time, like $14,000 a week, which is probably like $30,000, $40,000 a week now. Good money to me. And I said, yeah, let me do it.

I'll do it every year. I mean, I'll do the whole show. Suddenly, when I wanted to do it, then he told my agent, he says, I want Fred to sign a three-year contract. So I said to my agent, well, let's just do one year at a time, like I've been doing. My agent came back my agent, well, let's just do one year at a time. Look what I've been doing. My agent came back. She says, no, George wants three years.

I said, well, I don't know. What should I do? Should I go back? She said, no, no, he's withdrawn the offer. That was it? Yeah. I think he wanted to teach me a lesson because I wanted to do a year. He got some other guy.

Then he fired Bill Rafferty. He fired everyone on the show at one time. I was not aware of this, except Sarah Purcell. And NBC, she wanted more money, and NBC said, you have to pay her more money because she was really great, very pretty. And George says, if you want her, you pay her the extra money. Now I'm assuming you don't have a relationship with him anymore. I actually do.

Sarah Purcell and her husband invited me and my wife george and his wife down to their their club in santa monica i said what am i going to talk to about george george with george schlotter did you ever ask him whether or not he screwed you to teach you i think he knows but to me you know we went down and george had a drink or two oh fred you're my favorite comic this is my favorite guy and i think he sincerely means that he didn't someone once described george he says he'll love you for six months and then turn on you and fire you but he's a big he's a big guy in the industry and we had dinner and his wife is so pretty former showgirl and um we had a nice evening and a great

thing we've got to get together fred yeah damn we kept recalling one one story i did for him which was not the funniest story i did i used to laugh at that a perpetual motion machine i said well i had funnier stories but he's um he's he's a legendary guy and he he really started all this reality that was the first reality show sure now do you but like in talking about that i mean you've been in show business a long time and you've got you've done a lot of episodic work you've done hosting work you've done movie work now like in in talking about swatter and talking about these decisions that you made during your career is there part of you that thinks like ah fuck i should have done i always make the wrong i would I'm offered something, I find there's a reason I can't do it.

But I've done some things. I loved... I fought to get on SCTV. Remember that show? Sure. It was Eugene Levy. Eugene Levy. Marty Short.

Right. John Candy. I saw them in Canada. Rick Moranis. Rick Moranis. He joined it. Those were later. They came from the Second City stage.

Rick Moranis came in like a year or two into it. I loved the show, and I'd run into Joe Flaherty. And I'd say, Joe, I love that show. You've got to get me on that show. You've got to. And I was on Real People at the time, so they thought I was the big, because I was on Real People. So I did two or three of the shows, and it was great. Most of them were Canadian?

I think they're all Canadian. Catherine O'Hara, Eugene, Marty Short. So funny. Yeah. And I just did Martin Short. He just did a new special up in Toronto, and he had me do a part, and I went up to do that. So that's how you got in with them? Got in with that.

How much did you do on Second City? I did two or three episodes. But I sincerely loved it, so it wasn't like, oh, hey, you I really, but I sincerely loved it. So it wasn't like, oh, hey, you're the greatest. I really loved it, and I wanted to be on it. I just loved every character, and I could quote their lines back to them. Oh, yeah. You were a fan of this guy.

I really was, and I still am. I still have their two Christmas episodes, and I quote lines to Eugene Levy, and he doesn't know what I'm talking about. I said, Eugene, you did that on the Christmas episode. Oh, yeah. Is that where you met Christopher Guest? Because it seems like he uses a lot of them, too. Christopher, I met when they did... Spinal Tap?

Spinal Tap. Yeah. And I'd known him. I think he was an understudy when I did Little Murders in New York. He was just probably a young actor. And I didn't really know him, but I think Eugene Levy was more instrumental in getting me, because Eugene writes with Christopher. Where did he come from,

Christopher Guest? I mean, like, what was his background? He was an actor? You knew him in New York? As I found out, he was at a folk group in New York. He was a folk singer. He was an actor. He was in the, what's the thing they did down, what were those rising stars what

are those animals that go off the uh runoff follow each other oh lemmings right the lemmings it was in that lampoon's lemmings and uh oh that's right so he was there with all those guys she was in that everybody was in so he was part of that crew and i should have known that and christopher guest at saturday night live and i always heard a rumor when we were doing A Mighty Wind, someone told me that Christopher Guest is very special about who he wants in his... And I heard that Mary Travers from Peter, Paul, and Mary had called him and wanted to be in it, and he said no. So I asked him one time, I said,

Christopher, I've got to ask you did mary travers call you and he says no that's not true he says but she did babysit for me when he was a kid he was a kid in that in that interesting i mean he knows he grew up in it yeah um because he's created this i don't know what the word for it is uvra or like christopher guest has created this he seems to invented this modern like it's it's a mockumentary with spinal tap but but some sort of amazing cinematic space for genius improv improvisers yeah and i think and he's he did his first one waiting for guffman well the first one he was in but it was rob reiners with spinal tap then he did waiting for guffman you were in spinal tap i was in spinal play the military guy yeah yeah well that was easy for you it was Rob Reiner's with Spinal Tap. Then he did Waiting for Guffman. You were in Spinal Tap. I was in Spinal Tap. You played the military guy.

Yeah, yeah. That was easy for you? It was very easy because I had a military background. And I thought no one's going to watch this movie. And I knew Michael McKean and Harry Shearer and Christopher. And we took a few, it was kind of, we knew what the lines were. So you guys are all friends too? Harry and Michael McKean I I didn't know, and David Lander,

they were in a group called the Credibility Gap. Right, that was a big one. They played at the Improv, and my group was the Ace Trucking Company. And I thought their group, by our standards, they were so bright. And we had a job in the Midwest in Chicago and Indiana. We had about 11 dates. and two of our guys, one guy was off doing a movie and another guy was doing, and we needed replacements.

We had to cancel the group. I said, why don't the two of us combine with Harry Shearer, Michael McKeon, and David Lander? Yeah. Combine our material. So I got to work with them and know them. And that was in the 70s? It was in the, let's see, 70s, yeah.

Yeah. And so I've remained very good friends with all of them. I had no idea that there was this big sort of sketch comedy improv scene that was really kind of thriving in a way in the 70s. Yeah. That there were several different groups in there. Yeah, they didn't improvise. They were very scripted, but they did very political stuff.

And they did a version of Who's On First that, to me, is so much funnier than Abbott and Costello because it's a promoter who comes into a newspaper to promote his rock. He's doing a rock show down at an auditorium. And the guy says, okay, let's start. Who's on first? And the guy says, oh, you already know because the first group was who. Yeah. Who's on first? Oh, that's right. No, who? Yeah, who? Who's on first? Right, right. And they say, okay know that because the first group was who yeah who's on first

oh that's right no who yeah who who's on right right and there's okay who it's the second group guess who i don't know who it no guess who and the third group was yes will you tell me the name of the closing act yes and it's the brightest sketch yeah um you always thought you always seem to think that your sketches were not as smart as these other guys. No, not smart. But strangely, when we combined our sketches, our sketches went funnier than theirs because theirs was a little more thoughtful than ours. Ours were more cartoons, people running on and off the stage and silly stuff. But I've remained very good friends with all of Michael McKeon, David Lander, Harry Shearer, and I'm such a fan of all of theirs.

So anyway, Christopher Guest started doing these movies, Waiting for Guffman. The company, Castle Rock, wasn't quite sure what they had. Then it got kind of an inside movie. Then they did Best in Show, which was very popular. Mighty Wind. Mighty Wind. You were hilarious in that.

Now, I've got to ask you i because to me like the there was a genius in the haircut yeah i mean was whose choice was that my wife said she showed me a group a picture of an old group i don't know if it's poison one of those 70s rock groups these guys that were a little too old to look like that like that right and he says you should she said you should dye your hair blonde yeah with dark roots yeah so i said okay i think i'll ask chris and i said no i better not ask chris because if it's not his idea yeah he won't like it right so i got my hair dyed yeah my guy who does my hair yeah and i went in and chris was oh god that's awful light yeah and the hair people were very supportive oh no we can bring the color down.

Right. And it's funny. I came in with some suits I'd bought, some zoot suits. And you had that little faux hawk thing. That was for the next movie, which was For Your Consideration. At that time, in Mighty Wind, I said, you know, I'd like to wear a little earring. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little earring.

Yeah, I remember. And he said, no, no, no earring. So so the next movie the final movie was for your consideration he said i think i'd like to dye your hair blonde give you a faux hawk and he said i think add a little earring oh that's funny because then that was his idea but that was so hilarious because this that character to me the the whole the the the washed up comic element of him. That was, yeah, that's what I thought. My character was supposed to be just a manager of a musical group. I said, it might be funny if he had a sitcom. He was an ex-comic.

Right, right. Had one year on a sitcom, 30 years ago, and thought everyone remembered his catchphrases. And that was all you? Yeah, it was all, yeah. You came up with that? Yeah, yeah. What happened?

What happened? What happened? Like no one remembered it. But there was that time in that period with all those catchphrases on those shows. I know, it was so genius. Yeah, yeah. What happened? And actually, I... Weird confidence of repeating it.

Oh, yeah. No one had any idea. And I think I started by saying, let's get it out of the way. What happened? Like everyone knew. So Guest creates an environment to where you can do that? Yes, very much so. And he's very, you know, he tells you exactly what you have to get out, what information.

Yeah. He gives you your character. And then I added a little to it with a background. And then the first scene, he sets the camera, and this is the interview. And it went for 20 minutes. And he just walked through the room. the camera, and this is the interview. It went for 20 minutes, and he just walked through the room. He says, well, that's half our movie right there. But he won't say it's funny.

Was that funny? Yeah. Now it's a – then he'll cut it down to maybe a minute, but, you know, get what you want. And Bob Bowman's amazing. Bob is so wonderful. What a comedic wizard he is too, right? Well, he is the perfection. He fits everything of improv. He't try to top you he doesn't try to stay you know he just becomes the character and if he gets a laugh if not he just becomes that character and that's the perfect example of of

of improv is that the trick to it when you're doing like because you know i know that a lot of people a lot there's a lot of improv groups and this and that and even back in the day, you guys were playing improv games. But that stage, that's club improv. So when you do improvisational acting, what are some of the tools you bring to the table? What you've got to do, there's different times, as you say, club.

And I cheat a little. I try to be funny. Hey, let's get a laugh here. But the ideal is to get in the scene and listen to the partner. And I often tell people, if you don't think you can improvise if you're starting out, get into a scene and don't try to be funny. Just talk to the person.

You're going to the grocery store. Oh, I need milk. Then if something funny happens, oh, by the way, the last time you brought milk, it was sour. But actually, I liked it. so see if they got sour milk but don't try to be funny some people can take to it and be very funny some people are just

funny being serious so there's all different ways I don't know if you really can teach because you're the kind of guy you've probably worked with a lot of cats in your life where with improv actors they're they're they're there's almost a different set of personalities for each one like there's the brash guy who's yeah very young and but there's always the guy that underplays it yeah and sort of kind of is a little stilted and comes with his own timing like yeah this stuff in best of show when you're sitting there i was just

talking about this with my friend, that the whole, like you seem to build a pretty solid sense of past for these guys. Like, you know, you could just read into that guy that, you know, he was sort of a TV hack. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But everyone's familiar with that guy. Yeah. And you have a very sort of familiar kind of uniquely American disposition. Yeah, yeah.

That when you see the darker elements of this guy's character, and he doesn't even know it's coming out. Yeah. He's just trying to make conversation in an awkward situation. It's fucking hilarious. Yeah. But do you make certain choices about their life? You just have a couple of things to hang it on?

Yeah. And I think if someone asked me about them, you know, a lot of actors, you say they'll write a whole biopic. Right. I never did that. But if someone asked me about my character, what did a lot of actors, you say, they'll write a whole biopic. Right. I never did that. But if someone asked me about my character, what did he do three years ago, I could tell you. Yeah. You know, was he married?

Yeah, he was married once, and then he got a divorce. It kind of fits into the background. You set yourself in this situation. I guess that's how you do it. And Christopher, I guess, will give you the, you know, here's what you did. You did this, you did that. You're up against this guy. And Bob Balaban is a perfect foil because he's so serious.

I remember him from Seinfeld where he played the head of NBC, and he scared me. When I'm waiting for Guffman, there was a scene where Catherine O'Hara and I had to come in the room and audition for the play, and I didn't know Bob Balaban was going to be in the room. Then he has that look on his face like, who the hell is this?

So I think it was best in show. I had to go up and interview him. So immediately I got a brass side to me. He was Dr. So-and-so. Doctor, listen, I got a little pain in my upper, up in the left-hand side. Is that bursitis? Is it cold? And he just looked at me and says, well, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Now, he could have tried to top me. He said, what have you been doing with him? But I said, no, I'm not that kind of doctor. Now, he could have tried to top me. He said, what have you been doing with him? But I said, no, I'm just kidding with you here. But he was so perfect. He's a perfect father. Eugene Levy is that kind, too. Good for Will? Oh, he's like, you can just take advantage.

I said to him in the scene, you look like the kind of guy who spends a lot of time in the bathroom. But it just led. No, I wouldn't say that to Christopher Guest. Say it to Eugene Levy's character. Not to Eugene, but to his character. Yeah. They're fun people to work with. It's so funny because Bob Balaban's been around since the late 60s, too.

And he does everything. Man, you see movies, he produces. Yeah, he's a terrific guy. Well, it comes from the Balaban, the RKO or whatever. Yeah, it's a theater family, right? Yeah, that shouldn't hurt. My dad, I didn't know what he did. He went away and came home at 5 o'clock in a tie and sat with his tie and jacket and dad loosen your tie

um so in the big picture of things like you know after you got back from the army you made this choice i mean what how'd your family react to that do you mean i could not i didn't want to tell i got a job my i had a stepfather yeah and you know you got to go into business businesses and uh so i got a job in New York in an office, but it was the kind of job where it was a credit company. You could go out on the street and go to different companies, get credit reports. So if there was ever an audition, I could get up and leave.

But at night, we were doing this comedy act with my partner, and so it was really tough. I couldn't do it. Now, you'd leave a club at midnight, and you'd get home at 1, you'd have to be up at 8 and be in work at 9, and my partner had lost his job, and I said, boy, you're lucky you can sleep late. But he had a wife and a kid, and it was tough, and I said, oh, you're lucky, I envy you. And I was making like 85 bucks a week, but we finally auditioned for a company uh upstate new york you heard about

the cat skills this was not the cat skills this was like like the uh the uh the goy uh uh cat skills it was more white bread dinner theater ish it was dinner theater was repertory yeah and we auditioned there was a first banana a comic named larry wilde i don't know he's written he wrote he wrote all these books about um Jewish joke book, the Polish joke book. Oh, he did those? Yeah, yeah. Sure, I remember those. Yeah.

Very, very funny man. Not that funny on stage. He was like Alan King, kind of that corny humor. But in person, he was the funniest guy. And he was the first banana, and they needed a second banana, so they hired my partner and I as second banana. Well, the good thing, we got to, we gave my partner a job. I got to quit my office job. I had to go home and tell my parents, I'm going to be in show business.

And my stepfather, being very supportive, he says, there's a lot more unemployed actors than there are credit reporters. Well, you know, I know that. Did you never get along with that guy? No. I look back, he had a tough, you know, your stepfather, your mother marries another guy. And he didn't care for anything I did. Anyway, it's a long story.

But he died. And I look back and I said, maybe he was not that bad. He had a tough. It was just a matter of their approval of it. Yeah. Your mom was okay? She lived to be a good old, a good ripe age, 93. And she was, so she was able to see some of your success?

She saw some of my stuff, yeah, and she was amazed. She'd come out and see the house we live in, which is not that great. It's a nice house, but oh, she had to take pictures and show her friends. She was great. She didn't quite get, I mean, she had a pretty good sense of humor. Yeah. You know, from Cleveland, you have a good sense of humor in Cleveland, even though she was the least funny of all her brothers and sisters.

Well, you know, Jonathan Winters comes from Cleveland. Dayton, just a little west. Yeah, there's that Ohio Bob Hope. Yeah. Jack Riley. A lot of guys I've met out here. There's a Cleveland, Drew Carey, I think, is from Cleveland. Yeah, Cleveland rocks.

Have you spent time with Jonathan Winters? A little bit. He's a Cleveland, Drew Carey, I think, is from Cleveland. Yeah, Cleveland Rocks. Have you spent time with Jonathan Winters? A little bit. He's a little tough to be with. Yeah, a little. And if you're with him long enough, he'll come down and just you can get a conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I spent an hour talking to him.

For a half hour, he's characters, right? Sure. Yeah, yeah. As he gets older, I think that he's right in there. But he's got a hell of a memory. I think so. He was in his 80s. Oh, yeah. He can do his first radio bits.

Do you remember ever hearing him on the radio? Because I think some of his first bits were on the radio in Cleveland. The first I saw him, I was in a room, and there was a Colgate Comedy Hour or something. Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Winters. And he came out, and he was a Colgate comedy hour or something. Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Winters. And he came out and he did a thing about a sword fight. I don't know if he was making up. And he went and in the closing he put the

sword in his sheath. Oh, like he stabbed himself. Bam, Jonathan Winters. And they went to commercial and the audience laughed. And they died down. Then they started to laugh again. I'd never seen a response. the laughter just built and that no one had ever seen anything like this and he came along in that same wave shelly berman bob newhart uh lenny bruce um did you ever get to see any of those guys i saw shelly berman many times in person uh mort saul i tried to see Lenny Bruce I was at his famous Carnegie Hall concert

And you couldn't wait I Because he didn't show up until midnight I think Well it was a midnight show And it was a huge snowstorm And he came out And you could hardly It wouldn't be wild if they didn't know we were in here

But then people from the balcony Started to yell We can't hear you. Well, screw you. You should have got better seats. He was on a good long time, but it was very hard to hear him. Then I came out to L.A., and he was appearing in the Hollywood Canteen, which is a little place that's no longer there.

And they reviewed his show, and I said, I'll go down to see him. It was a small place. There he came in late, walked in with a raincoat, walked up on stage, talked about 10 minutes. He was mad about something. He said, well, go down to see him. It was a small place. There he came in late. Walked in with a raincoat. Walked up on stage. Talked about 10 minutes. He was mad about something. He said, well, I've got to split. And I went, whoa, wait a minute. So we did another 10 minutes and split.

So I never got to really see his act. But I got a bunch of CDs. That's interesting. So you saw him and you couldn't hear him at the peak of his career. And then you saw him and he was too fucked up to deal at the end of his career. But there's a book of about six of his CDs, and he did some great. Oh, yeah, yeah. Half of it was just genius.

The other half was just blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. Who else? Bob Newhart. I've become a bit friendly with him. I did his show. Sweet guy. Just a real.

Oh, I'd love to talk to him. Nice guy, huh? Yeah, just the sweetest. Still works, right? Yeah, yeah. Now, when you work with younger guys, like you did something with Tim and Eric, right? Yeah, I did. I never saw what I did.

I'd never heard of their show. And young people would come up to me and say, man, you were on Tim and Eric. Yeah. I said, yes, I was. Oh, great. So I called my agent. I said, if Tim and Eric ever call, tell them I'll be on their show because young people like it. And I did a second. A second, I did not understand what I was doing.

They pieced it together. I was looking through a phone book for restaurants or doing something, and they said, we'll piece it. I said, but what's the point? We'll piece it together. And you never saw it. I think I finally saw it. I remember something.

I was feeding people out of a pig trough. You just went along with it. I went along with it. And I said, is this right? Is this what you want? But they're very popular. I haven't really got into that. But comedy has changed a lot.

It became very open with Lenny Bruce. You could talk about more. Monty Python came along. It opened up sketch material, all comedy material, because someone could stand up in the middle of a sketch and say, oh, sorry, I'm in the wrong sketch. I'd never seen that. Can you do that?

Sorry, I'm in the wrong sketch. Saturday Night Live has done that. And then comedy got very blue, which I love. Blue comedy, if it's funny, Dave Attell. I've got a CD of Dave Attell that I listen to. And I won't let my wife listen to it because it's so graphic. But I'll listen to it every once in a while. He's funny.

And very dirty and funny. But if it's dirty and funny. And then now comedy seems to be a lot of it. Dumb comedy. There's no joke. Well, that's the joke. There's no joke. Does that bother you?

I feel so old. I said, I'm not getting this. Sometimes on Saturday Night. Well, that's the joke. There's no joke. Does that bother you? I feel so old. I said, I'm not getting this. Sometimes on Saturday Night Live, I'll watch a sketch. I say, where's the joke? Other times are so funny. They're so bright. I love Saturday Night Live. I never miss it.

But we TiVo it. And I love their cast. They're just great. Great. Fred Armisen. Sure. He's good, huh? Yeah.

And I love it when he does. They do a sketch like the old Halloween party, Vincent Price. And you know, half the crowd doesn't know who the hell he's talking about. Bill Hader was in that. Yeah, Bill Hader. I met him, I was on the Jimmy Fallon show with Bill Hader. I met him, I said, Jesus, you're so young. He looks like he's 14 years old and he plays these great characters. He's a funny guy.

Yeah, they're all funny. So how often do you do your improv stuff? It's a sketch group. We started doing it at a little theater on Fairfax called Bang. Yeah. And we got this group of people who write sketches, and we started doing these shows. We did them for about six months, once every month, every two months. Then Second City got in touch with us and said, why don't you do it at our theater?

It's on Hollywood Boulevard. They have workshops there and a very nice theater. And it's fun. You guys, every month you do a couple new sketches or what? Good new sketches.

It's just great. They come in with new sketches and we've got some great people. And it started out, I would write most of the sketches. And now, I'll do maybe one sketch because everyone else is so funny.

And you'll act another one? Yeah, I'll do a couple. yeah well it's great talking here fred thank you for yeah thank you and thanks for coming on and it's a pleasure they said my wife said boy i'm glad you're doing mark show it's very hip everyone everyone on the internet everyone's talking about yeah i said well yeah this is great i know mark and uh this for some reason i thought i'd done your show but i don't i might have done by phone a year or so ago. Did you do some phoners? I think we did maybe something for Air America. I don't know.

Yeah, that might have been it. Yeah, yeah. I was talking for a minute or two. Watch your latest project, Fred. Well, right now I'm in. Thank you so much. And now let's go to, wait, we have Tom Cruise. That was Fred Willard.

Fred Willard. Was that Fred? And you're still sitting there going, did I do it? Am I in? Well, it's certainly great. I'm a big fan. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Rest in peace, Fred Willard. That was Fred Willard from 2012. Rest in peace, Lynn Shelton. Boomer lives!