WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Richard Lewis from 2011

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Richard Lewis was a comedy hero and inspiration to Marc. They spent their first extended time together in 2011 for this conversation about Richard's life and career. Richard died on February 27, 2024 at age 76. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

you want headphones or no yeah do i need them well if you want to hear yourself well this is not live no yeah but you know you can hate myself why should i you can you can regulate your uh voice appropriately if you hear it in the head you're like all of a sudden you're some kind of professor of radio that's good i'm just trying to What's the language? There's no language problems I want Richard Lewis to be the best Richard Lewis he can be I want him to be able to regulate That's what they want every night from both of us

So I'm exhausted Is this rolling? Yeah It's a very lovely house Thank you Are you exhausted? I'm beyond exhausted I had been on the road And I forgot to a break, so it was 41 years in a row.

Jesus Christ. Yeah, you should probably relax a little bit, take a little time off. Not here, not in this house. This house is great. It's unbelievable. It's overlooking the Alamo. Yeah. No, it seems that way.

It seems like people can rush up rush up yeah the last time i saw you i was at lax and i'm a liberal by the way let me just say this and i had this driver who's a native american yeah and he keeps talking about the you know now you're in the barrier i go i don't give a fuck where i am i'm gonna hear it's a new mark show uh-huh and he's out there nervous in the car yeah he's not just shining bows and arrows. I said, you have to protect me and he had a globe with him too.

He didn't even know where he was fucking going. The whole thing was a... Yeah, really? Is that the new thing? No, he didn't want the GPS. He just went old school with a globe.

He's pointing to the boot of Italy this fucking time. This is where we're going. Well, let me ask you something, Richard. You better. Otherwise, it's driving. It's just going to go... No, no, no. I woke something, Richard. You better. Otherwise, it's dry here.

It's just going to go. No, no, no. I woke up at 4 a.m. for this. You did not. What do you do at 4 a.m.? Can you not sleep? No, I've been on the road. I did about 12 shows in 18 days, and I finished the script all in 18 days.

I'm nuts. What's the script for? A television show. And then I'm trying to go out with a bang, man. Yeah, I understand that. 41 years. 41 years. Has it been 41 years?

Yeah. Since you started. 41 years ago. Since you started. Yeah, first time on stage. Where was that? At a club in the village that's no longer there. Which one?

It's called the Champagne Gallery. And where'd you, where did you come from? My mother's vagina. How was that for you? Horrible. Yeah? You never got over it, did you? Well, she wanted to push me back in.

Still? She's dead. They're all dead. But I mean, I was a mistake child. Me too. Jesus Christ. I have about 8,000 billion pages in my computer of premises, so you're not going to be catching me doing routines.

But the truth is, I really was a mistake, baby. There's no way they wanted me. Yeah. My siblings were much older, and my father looked like a Jewish, looked like Michelangelo with a fucking P. I said, wait a minute, what the fuck am I doing here? And then everyone moved out.

My brother moved out to, you know, here. Allen Ginsberg, stand on a corner and do, you know, Howl. He moved to San Francisco? No, I think Ginsberg was in New York. But I, will you do some research before you call me the next time? Sure. It's unbelievable. Everything you've said so far has been wrong.

Well, that's to provoke conversation. I was just saying. I don't need you to be wrong to provoke. You're very hilarious. But Allen Ginsberg is a New Yorker but he read Howl for the first time in City Lights books I take back that whole fucking comment

it was stupid Mark I can't believe we're already here we've been going 10 minutes I think it's going quite well where were you born? I was born in Brooklyn, I'm a New Yorker and then they moved to New Jersey and I was raised there if you want to use that word. Did you do anything else before comedy?

I was in my mother's womb. What could I do? I was in AAA ball. Was there another trajectory? That's my only question. Oh! You know what I mean? Like, I mean, was there like, I'm going to get a job and do this? No. I had a job. I did that. There was. Comedy writing, but it wasn't in my heart of hearts. And my father, after he sent me to college in Europe and all this shit, I just felt like I couldn't. I didn't have the balls to say, you know what? I'm going to give it all up and work for free and see what happens.

Couldn't do it. So what did you end up doing? He died very soon after I graduated college, and it was a real shocker, man. So it catapulted me on stage because I was writing jokes for all these Borscht Belt guys. Like who? Well, I guess the most famous was a guy named Morty Gunty. But there was a handful of them you you wrote uh one-liners for uh for all these guys who were

doing the yeah yeah the borscht so did you go up there to watch your act and everything fucking hey you sat up there at the hotels yeah i wanted to see if they delivered it right uh-huh and did what no and they they gave me back everything. 99% they said, this won't work for me. And I realized why. Because it was about me. Yeah. I said, then suddenly,

when my father dropped dead, I realized that there was such a hole to fill in that. It was pretty horrible for everybody in the family. My mother and brother and sister and everybody else. Anyway, so the truth of the matter is, going on stage did really help fill that hole. In terms of the grief and everything else? Totally. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

The first time we ever met, you actually understood what I said. Yeah, I've understood most of it. Oh, I've been inarticulate. No, I don't think so. You've been in my brain for most of my adult life. I remember the first time I saw you on David Letterman. And I was like, where the fuck did this guy come from? I must have seen.

Really? That's very nice. Compliment? Yeah. It must have been your first appearance. Because it was electric. You spoke to a direct channel in my mind. And I was like, that's the guy. That's the guy.

That's the guy. And people compare me to you. And I don't know what to do with that. But it's not an insult to me. Paul Reiser had that problem, too. Oh, really? But wait, I like the idea of a young Richard Lewis sitting at the- Why do I care what you like?

I know. Sitting at the Concord- I'll be 64. Go on. Sitting at the Concord Hotel at the feet of these fat, sweaty, old Jewish men that do half their act in Yiddish. Come on. There's only a few Jews left.

We've got to be nice to ourselves. There were fat Jewish women there, too. Yeah, their wives. And their children were fat and Jewish. I'll tell you something. In my 30s, I had sold out Carnegie Hall, and it was a great night. I'm a recovered drug addict for like 17 years,

and so I basically showed up pretty all right. And then I hammered my life away. Has it been 17? Yeah, well, it's incredible. I'm coming up on 12. I'm trying to remember. Are you really? Yeah.

Wow. But you hosted the A-list. I was on the A-list when you hosted. If it wasn't for the teleprompter, I'd still be there. And you were still drinking then, right? Oh, yeah. 89? That yeah 89? that was 89

and with a teleprompter it was a piece of cake no no oh yeah I was drinking yeah teleprompter it looked like it was so great

that was my rider teleprompter no but all he does is get on a horse and go over a hill no I need a teleprompter so alright so going back

oh the Concourse so the manager says he says No, I need to teleprompter. So, all right. So going back. Oh, the Concord. So the manager says, he says, listen, it's a lot of bread for an hour. And I said, yeah, but this ain't my kind of gig. He says, yeah, but you're in New York. I said, fine. So I rented a stretch, four great friends, a lot of champagne. I told the limo guy, go on the Concorde, keep the engine running.

So I take a picture with the owners, the older guys who are my age now. They're not old or younger even. And I can't believe how fucking old I am. Anyway, so I take a picture, and and I hear, and it's 3,000 people eating. Yeah. And I hear, ladies and gentlemen, Richard Lewis, not even Citizen Kane, not even that even. So they don't even recognize, they don't even look at the stage. 3,000. Eating Jews.

Well, Jews like to eat, but at the expense of spoken word, it's a murder. Yeah. So I said to them, I looked at my watch and went, look, because I had the check in my wallet. It was a lot of bread for an hour. It was a joke. So I said, look, I got 32 minutes and 18 seconds. I had a stopwatch. Yeah.

I said, and I said that, and then I heard i heard 2 000 people go i didn't get pears lenny and that's really a loud sentence when 2 000 people say and i it was almost mystical so i bombed so dig this the guy he's i don't know peter allen he's passed away he was with one of Liza Minnelli's you know whatever yeah husbands yeah he was on the next night and um he apparently was there and a friend of mine was there for a weekend as was my uncle who's still alive at 97 who was divorced then but he was still I was still his uncle yeah uh his nephew rather and he told the group of people, he said, my nephew, he's in a series with Jamie Lee Curtis and he just did Carnegie Hall

and he's going to be on. He was real proud, right? Yeah. At the end of the show, my uncle Milton said, who's still alive, he's doing great, he's 98, he's cool.

He said to the people after the show, I think he's my nephew. I think he's my nephew. I think he's my nephew. He was so humiliated. Because I absolutely got no laughs. So I go up to the suite, and the suite at the Concord was like being in your grandmother's bathroom. Yeah. It was, you know, it was just, it smelled, it smelled like, I thought the pogrom was going to rush in.

Little rose-shaped hand soaps and things. Yeah, all that shit. I mean, it was all bad. Yeah. It was all negative. And there was a bottle of Dom Perignon, which was great. You know, I'm an alcoholic. And the car was running because I saw it outside the window.

Big white stretch, you know, real grandiose bullshit. So I read this note and it was really, it was from the owner's son. Anyway, the son said, you can't be all things to all people. And that meant a lot to me because, you know, he was a huge fan and obviously these people could care less about what I had to say. They weren't my market, target market, four-year-old kids running around or breastfeeding or throwing pineapple at each other's necks like aborigines you know right with boomerangs yeah so you know i i realized they were right i mean i got hammered on the way home and i kept flaunting the check real grand in the brand new look what i just made for doing nothing yeah but it hurt right oh it's

horrible it's the worst it's the worst fucking feeling but that was oh but dig this a peter allen a friend of mine was there I don't know why he went there for singles weekend if my uncle was there

at 70 what was he even thinking Peter Allen but he's gay too right yeah he was gay he was gay

he's a dead gay man yeah nice guy talented guy but he goes on stage my friend says the next night

and goes boy I hope I do better than Richard Lewis. And I heard that. I went, that son of a bitch. Yeah. We're in the fucking arts. It's murderously hard. All I ever wanted to do was pay the bills

and be a humorist. And that's all I've been doing. So were you able to let that anger go? No. It was seething. I almost became homophobic. I mean, I'm been doing. So were you able to let that anger go? No. It was seething. I almost became homophobic. I mean, I'm a liberal. I almost started building devices and toss them into gay pride parades. I got nuts. So what happened was I was at the Four Seasons. I had to go to

hotels in Hollywood and bring notes with me before a tour, just look at thousands of new premises. You actually check into a room to prepare? No, I go in the lobbies. Oh, you just sit there? Yeah. Seriously? Yeah, actually. Why is that funny? Oh, I'm sorry.

No, no, I want to know why. Mark, seriously. Because you can go anywhere. There's a coffee shop. Well, my house is only, you know. You can walk to the Four Seasons. I don't like coffee. I know.

I like five-star hotel lobbies. And you just sit there? Why should I go leave my home? I'm not going to. Which is built in the 20s, which is a gorgeous house. It's almost like a Frank Lloyd Wright. It's not. I wish it was.

And to go to like a, you know, a motel lobby. So you. Might as well go to like the Chateau Marmont or the Peninsula. You know, or the Four Seasons. So you don't go or you do? I do. All right. Like three, four times. Don't yell at me. I'm not yelling at you. I'm just trying to engage. So you don't go or you do? I do. All right. Like three or four times.

Don't yell at me. I'm not yelling at you. I'm just trying to engage. No, I like you. I like you too. But you engage in a way like, you know, that could provoke an argument. Is that unfamiliar to you?

No, I have an argument even with insects. How does that go? You think you're better than me? Well, that's very funny. No, I crushed a praying mantis ones oh actually i sliced them and i i'm frightened of them and then the other you know it's illegal i think in new jersey i don't give a fuck all right you're a fucking rebel you're killing praying mantises everywhere let me tell you something why mantis killer i hear that because those anyway i saw peter allen

yeah and i said can i talk to you for a minute? Yeah. And he said, Richard, Richard. I don't mean to do a gay voice or anything. That's all right. It wasn't barely. It was sort of, go ahead. I don't do impressions. I'm not asking you to. Who would it sound like?

Like Hal Ender? Maybe. I mean, I would, no. What's his? Elton John? No, it just sounded like a guy going like, Richard, Richard. Yeah, like a guy in third grade. Let's play volleyball. Yeah, going like, Richard, Richard. Yeah, like a guy in third grade. Let's play volleyball.

You didn't go, Richard. I didn't want to do it right on. Is that how he sounded? I don't want to get into any, you know, by doing a gay voice, some people might. Anyway, look, we're getting way off the subject because of you. Okay, go ahead. It's not my fault.

So I wanted an apology. And I said, you know, I've been doing this for the time, 30 years. And I said, I had just sold out Carnegie Hall. I got two standing ovations. I foolishly did something I never do. It's something that I don't feel is right for me for the money. And I did it. And I paid the price.

It was a humiliating hour. I don't need another fucking artist to step on me the next night. Just do your show. Right. Do your fucking show. Yeah. Why the fuck should you put me down? Yeah.

And then he became like screamingly apologetic in a way that was, he almost got tossed out of the lobby. Did he start playing piano? No, he almost started playing me. Yeah. So he got on his knees and was apologizing. Oh, my God, you're right. I was wrong.

But he was sweet about it. Yeah. I got an apology. Hanging on to resentments are really bad in this business because we're fucked over by so many people in the business. Well, it's hard to understand that, and I'll look to you for this because I do respect you and everything,

but, you know, when you are a unique performer and you are an authentic voice and that is what you do, some people don't understand and then some people, you know, take advantage, but it's very hard to get our needs met when we're as crazy as we are. That was your telephone, right? I'm turning it off.

That was so fucking rude. I didn't mean to. I turned my phone off miles before we hit the house to remind myself. And it's your show. It's all a plan. Your popular show. But you're right. No, you're right.

What's your point? My point is that it's hard not to be filled with resentment because on some level we think that Hollywood is our parents or our friends or that we're entitled to something. But you seem remarkably well-adjusted for you lately. Well, let me put it this way. Honestly, I had written a book about a decade ago, about seven years into my sobriety because I wanted to tell the truth because I felt if, if I couldn't, if anything,

if I had any gift other than a way to make people laugh is that I was the same guy on stage. I was off. I thought that was sort of cool. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't actually think it was cool. It just turned out that way. But that's the way you wanted it to be your journey was to be true to yourself right true to myself but i didn't think that by me going on stage and talk about a rash on my ass

which was there yeah would be funny because i would do it on letterman if i wake up and had a rash on my ass i'd come right you know i didn't give a shit what they wanted me to say. What are you going to talk about? I would say, shirts, God, Hawaii, hello, goodbye, and shelves. Don't ask me. But see, they have to write notes down. Now I have so much, they're all so afraid of me. Because they have segment producers.

I used to work with the same guy, Conan, as you did with Frank Smiley. Oh, God. I used to work with the same guy, Conan, as you did with Frank Smiley. Oh, God. I know Frank forever. I had to take Frank by the neck, like the scruff of his neck. Yeah. And drag him before one of my shots with Conan. Yeah. And said, look, Conan.

I said, I've been doing this for almost 40 years. I said, Frank called me at midnight on the road. He says, what are some of the things you're going about let's hear a few I go fuck you I mean I like Frank yeah we're not you know we don't see each other right but he's like very cynical sometimes and in a funny way but still I said I'm not telling you I don't want it you're not my audience it's you're just one person I said if I can't be trusted and I said I just did three shows in four days I got two standing ovations I'll do some of that shit if that makes you feel any better I said but I'm not going to perform in the I was in the

middle of Wisconsin was 10 below zero I got Frank Smiley by a fire in Manhattan going so what are you gonna what are you gonna talk about and? And I went ballistic. On him? Yeah. And then did he go, what else you got? Yeah, well, he's funny. He's funny, Frank. He's really funny. He's a nice guy, too.

It's a risk. So before I went on this, I was on. And between breaks, I signaled to the exec producer, Conan. This is when he was still with NBC, and I said, come over here a minute. I said, look,

if you want me to do this show, and I was very supportive to the guy when he was getting creamed in 94, I was just sober and I was in this

kind of bubble and I couldn't do enough for people and I called the guy, I said, hey man, fuck the critics and just find

your style. And if it's meant to be, it'll happen. Right. Don't listen to all this bullshit. So, you know, and he's been good to me, Conan, in a very fair. But, you know, he still engages in these segment producers. I said, look, I can understand if it's some actor or actress from a soap opera. Yeah.

And you go, what do you want to talk about? I think I saw a picture of Christ on a soap opera. Yeah. And you go, what do you want to talk about? I think I saw a picture of Christ on a stapler. Yeah. So we'll open up with a staple of Christ. That I understand. I said, but I might make that up while I'm sitting there. Right. And I don't want to be, I can't be in jail.

Yeah. Because Frank Smiley called me on the road and traced me down at midnight what am i going to talk about i i i threw the phone out of the fucking 12-story window so i've dragged i grabbed them over and i stood in front of the exec producer and conan i said if you want me to do this show i said i'll i'm telling you ask me what i'm going to do next time. Spirituality, alcoholism, divorces, fear of intimacy. Is that enough? Because I could talk for like 18 days on each one,

and I promise you that a lot of this stuff I've done on stage, and I'll never repeat anything on your show that I've done anywhere. So I cannot do, I will never give you any answers anymore. And they don't ask me anymore. Did you do that with Letterman too at the beginning? I do it now with everybody right after the show. In the beginning? Oh, you have to when you're a kid.

Right, you had to do what they, you had to give them what you were going to say. Yeah, but then, but what I would do is that I, you can, it's actually your life. So when you get up there, you know, you could piss them off. Because I understand this. I mean, look, you go and then there's another, there's like 18 guests a week. I get it. Right, you're just another day at work.

I learned a lot of valuable lessons doing these shows. Once, early in the 80s, I did more Lettermans than almost anybody. And I'm actually the panel guest. You were the guy that was like, I always look forward to you sitting down. To me, it was a respectable thing. Yeah, well, Letterman was the guy who told me,

you'll never do stand-up on my show. You're much better on panel. You're too physical. Right, and you engage, too. You know, he can move you along. And because of him, it set a precedent for me back in 82, and I never, even without a series, I said, no, Lewis doesn't do stand-up.

If you want him, he just sits down and squirms in his seat right and that's because of dave that was a great thing but um two things letterman letterman really gave me my first real break yeah and uh because i was on like every six weeks for years and you know i had endless amounts of material so that wasn't a problem and the thing is uh once i was talking about hawaii and i said to the woman during the day all right he could ask me i understand you were in hawaii i said the whole thing is so fraudulent to me right it just sounds fake you mean when you when you're talking to a segment producer i said what karnak yeah you were in maui yeah yeah it's not a

real question no but he you know dave, they're great at what they do, but still, to me, it was a fake. But that's what happens all the time anyway when they have these categories on paper. So he says, I understand you're in Hawaii, and I cringed when I heard that. Look, I get it. It's show business.

Yeah, it's show business. So I start doing stuff about Hawaii. Right. I wrote thousands of premises, not thousands, hundreds, in that week. Yeah. So during the taping, Dave said, who truly has been incredibly supportive to me for 40 you know, 40 years, 35 years or so.

Yeah. He said on the air, oh, I guess this is your Maui hunk. And I went fucking nuts. It took away all the, you know, like it broke the fourth wall. It made me feel like I was just doing like my bar mitzvah speech. But it's also sandbagged you in a little bit because you were against that anyways, and all of a sudden he put that on you.

Well, I don't know if he did it just, it snuck out. He's probably trying to be funny. He was probably trying to be funny, but I went crazy. What happened? I went nuts in the dressing room. I didn't give a shit anymore about the show, and it was so important to me, that show. I lived for that show.

Were you drunk? No. Is it sober? Well, I don't remember. mean there was sometimes i might have been a little high but i never i never stumbled into it and what happened because of that well he heard me screaming and yelling i get to my hotel room and you know he's a pretty reclusive guy yeah and he wants to be obviously and um i get a call at the hotel, Dave wants you to come over too, after their little rehearsals.

And I went, fine. I figured it was it, like, hey, I dare you and fuck you and scream, my crew is there. And it was just the opposite. He says, boy, that was the most unfair comment to make to another comedian. All of a sudden I was billboarding the fact that you had material right on maui and i asked you about it and then i like you said i did feel sandbag yeah so that was pretty cool of him yeah

and on carson you had to do five minutes and like 31 and a half seconds. It was like psychotic. It's four minutes and 15 now. Is that what it is? On Ferguson, anyway. I dig this, Mark. I had this routine for like 10 years. And I loved getting them on the show and then throwing them out. Yeah.

It's best, unless I was in a place where the audience snuck, I just wanted to get off stage. Right. So I did this routine on the Division of Motor Vehicles, and it really was a strong routine. It was about seven minutes long. Yeah. So I cut it down to about six and a half minutes,

and I remember the week because Rodney was in town, and we both drank and did drugs, and we loved women, and we just went crazy. You and Rodney? Oh, yeah. And he was really very supportive of me and anyway sweet guy in his way right oh god yeah yeah dark the darkest guy i've ever known practically you know he was so miserable unbelievably miserable what he used to call the whole what the humanity was the uh not the dark or maybe the darkness the

oh hey i'll tell you the heaviness you know it's getting the heaviness that's good very so i walk in i had written about this i'll make it brief i walked in they were changing shows all i wanted to do was my two monologues i told at the time bud freeman who was running the joints i said look but i just want to do my monologue and get out. I'll do both shows. He says, fine. So I see Rodney, and he sees me. I said, oh, shit, I'm cooked, man.

Because I usually used to stay around, close the place, look for women, drink, hear rock and roll. Where was this? Anywhere. Anywhere. But certainly at a comedy club. Yeah. And I was making some sort of name for myself,

so it was easy to meet women and all that shit. So I see Rodney, and he says, Hey, Richard, you'll come sit with me after you're set. I don't do impressions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that was closer to Rodney than, say, like Dick Van Dyke, wasn't it? Yeah, no, it was good, yeah.

Good. So, but I'm not lying to you. No, I'm serious. I got it. It had a feel of Rodney. Hey, huh? Yeah, hey, huh. Yeah, it's the attitude.

So I said, Rodney, I feel I can't. I said, I just wanted to go home and hear the tape and time it. That's all I cared about. For Carson. Yeah, I mean, that Carson, because David Brennan once told me when I was 23, he says one five minute spot on Carson is like doing the improv every night full house, three shows a

night for like, he had it all figured out like 18 years. He had the math done? Yeah, he was a maniac like that. So 18 years is right. So you better not walk through any of this shit. Yeah, yeah. And when I see younger comics,

I go, whether it's radio or whatever, I know, if I sound like an old folk, I don't give a shit. I think it's good advice. You never know who's listening. Right.

And once you don't take your art seriously and passionately, you'll never be as good as you can be and then you're going to burn a lot of bridges. So I believe that.

And you learned that from experience? Well, I just had good mentoring early on. You didn't burn bridges ever? No. No, that's good. I mean, there were some people that, you know, I was, you know, there's been a few places, you know, perhaps I couldn't be honest because they didn't like me.

I like when people, I used to always, Cassavetes, i'm a big you know huge fan and he used to see a screening if the audience like it he would make it he would go back and fuck it up some fuck it up so they wouldn't like it i love that he wanted people to be annoyed yeah and i never want you know i want to be bob hope for christ's sake absolutely all right so rodney so so no he so i say i lied i went rodney i feel like shit man yeah and rodney said hey great you're halfway there huh and when he said you're halfway there i froze i mean to me that and i said i'm done i'm done yeah i said i'll be right i'll be let me just

do my monologue i'll be there and we closed the place down as usual. But here's the thing. I had this monologue. Seven minutes. Not even. Five something. But that's how long yours was. You had to cut it down. Yeah, I had to cut it down from the club.

Right. So I go on stage. And, you know, God, it was such torment. People should know. It's like first getting it and then honing it and doing it for years. I don't work that way anymore. I haven't for decades. Now I just free associate half the shows.

It's more like improv. I just can't take it anymore. You can't take structure. I don't have an act. Right. I just don't have. I really don't have an act. I have literally 1,500 pages of premises, i and i scroll them and i print out the last

years and i bring it on the road with me i try to remember some of it and the yellow notebooks i saw you at the bottom line probably no more notes no more notes no more yellow not for a decade i never and it's never been better so dig this so i i'm on i'm on the show like john richard lewis this is before i had a sitcom so i had to do stand-up and um i go on there and and i'm destroying this burbank which is known for notorious for being pretty square yeah and not an easy audience right and my lack of experience made me play it more like a nightclub room than than the camera it's really the camera that matters and that red thing that goes red that's in the bedroom yeah of millions of people you were aware of that well i was not as much as i should have been uh-huh because i got too physical and i was like trying to you know playing the front roll as if they were ordering

two whiskey sours but i learned young enough that I didn't burn any of those bridges. But the thing about this was, it was so amazingly frightening, was that midway through the monologue, and I was so in heaven. I'm killing. This is maybe the strongest shot I've seen anyone do. And you're an unbelievable comedian. You would know when there's laughs, you wait until they peak, and then you move on. Yeah.

So I did that. I waited. And then all of a sudden, underneath the camera, a technician comes, a stage manager, gave me the wrap it up sign. I went, wrap it up? I'm halfway through. It would make no sense.

Right. If I said goodnight right now, I never would get the show again. So you're getting too many laughs. And applause. Yeah. So I had to make a decision. If never would get the show again so you're getting too many laughs and applause yeah so i had to make a decision if i never get the show again which i wouldn't i said if i if i didn't get off i'd have to say i was too good i could live with that it was too funny yeah that i could live with right but um i get off stage and the town coordinator went fucking nuts and the agents were with me.

And they were sort of cluelessly funny. They went, hey, you did two shows in one. I said, no, you don't understand. That's the fucking reason I'm not coming back, you mental cases. I'm done. This guy's screaming at me. Carson is going to be livid after the meeting. So I had a date.

I was dating, well, I dated a lot of waitresses but slash actresses and who are now massage therapists or Christians whatever I don't care anymore

what anyone does I just hope they don't have a painful death but at any rate or your child yeah no that's not happening

okay I'm married now but I had a five year window but I didn't want to have I couldn't you know we don't know me. We don't hang out that much, but my child would be in a horrible.

He'd have a neediness battle. Oh, my God. He'd be sucking my thumb, his thumb, my husband's thumb. Why are you crying? Daddy's hurting. Exactly. That's right. He'd care more about me. I a temperature let me yeah let me take your

temperature richard yeah even you call me richard don't call me dad yeah makes me uncomfortable i get off stage and i go to the palm which i always used to love there used to be a great a legendary guy named gg who is he uh ran it he's dead now he was the greatest and I went there with the two managers some date nice woman and I was crestfallen because I went you know in an hour and a half you close your eyes you go you see all the apartment houses on the East Coast lights will go on in a bedroom and there you are yeah different apartment houses how many on in this apartment are gonna see, how many in this apartment are going to see me? How many in this?

I mean, it was a trip on that. Yeah. But I said, they're going to see me destroy. You know, I didn't think that they could edit. I forgot about that. Sure. So I'm sitting there and all of a sudden, 10 feet away is Carson.

Yeah. Still in his makeup like I was. The odds that he was at the table next to me, you know, was a billion to one shot. Sure, he went home maybe. Anything. Yeah, yeah. I bolt over like Jack Ruby,

ready to shoot him in the head. And I got on my knees. He was there with his lawyer. Like a Jack Ruby that just wanted attention, didn't want to kill a president. Well, I just went, well, that's the way I'm looking at it. But to me, I felt like I was, the the way it looked it looked like i was gonna assassinate what were you what was your first thing in your head like i got to apologize that's it right that's

it and i said look johnny because i had done the show i said johnny look i did this monologue for 10 years i couldn't wait to get over with. It killed. You were there. Yeah. I said, the guy wanted me to get off. I said, I didn't want Johnny Carson to think I didn't know what I was doing. Right. I said, so I made an, I called an automatic. I did the whole routine.

I know it went twice as long, but I'd rather you know that I know what I'm doing and never do the show again than to say, what the fuck was that all about? It made no sense to me. And the next day, I got a call from the talent coordinator.

He said, you're a lucky man that you ran into him. Because had I not, I would have had to have crashed a lot, maybe never gotten in. What did he say to you? He didn't say much. He was scared. I was like, you know. Panicked.

I looked like a guy who was going to kill him. Yeah. Because my eyes were like coyotes. And he just said, get him. He said, don't worry about it, don't worry about it. Something to kill him. Yeah. Because my eyes were like coyotes. And he just said, he says, don't worry about it, don't worry about it. Something to that effect. Uh-huh.

And so he let me, and I never looked back. So if you don't mind, because I... I don't mind about anything. What, you want me to leave? No, no. I identify with this transition you made.

Okay, I think it's interesting that you started doing comedy right after your father's death, you know, to sort of, you know... Fill the void. Yeah, fill the yeah fill the void i'm sorry i mean to speak for you that's all right and then you developed this style which was which was your style you did create a voice through written material but then all of a sudden you detach from the material because i find that that the idea of being exactly the same on and off stage is very compelling and that there's no distance between who you are on stage. I like that.

Because it's emotionally satisfying. You don't feel like you're being a fraud, right? Right. And you feel like you have a connection to the people that are there. Now, one thing I've said about you is that do you think there are moments where, do you feel like you're healthier now? I mean, mentally. I mean, do you think that something has, over the time that you've been expressing yourself, that you've gotten any sort of shit together?

Not much. Really? Why do you think that is? Is that something you commit to, or do you think it's something that just is the way it is? Well, first of all, I got married at 57. Yeah. I met a woman 13 years ago, and she's great.

But I found somebody who has a point of view other than my own yeah and you can't you can't bully an addict so i either was an addict for those who don't know and this is a you know buzzwords crap but it's like we're very grandiose we want what we want we want it and then the flip side that can happen instantaneously is that we feel that we're worthless right so i either was with women and i was no you know easy package but i was either with slaves basically like you're gonna watch every kubrick film this week or it's over i mean it was that that controlling right okay i guess that's better than hitting them is forcing them to sit their eyes wide shut even though you might not even like it that much i didn't like it as much as i wanted to

let me die before we finished and maybe you would have saved it yeah but um or or i would be with the worst women on the planet who tortured me just fight constantly fighting and just sabotaging me and fucking me around and using me for my connections. So I found somebody. I had one or two really good women in my life, but I wasn't ready. I was a drunk, an active drunk. But when I sobered up, I met Joyce about 12 years ago. But she has a point of view. And it's still hard to, I mean,

I did get help from my therapist. But, I mean, and being so, but it had, first I had to stop drinking and doing those kind of recreational drugs or I'd be dead. But, so that's important. Meds? Everything.

Anything that would get me high. Do you do any meds? Meds? Yeah, meds. I mean, are you antidepressants or something? No. No, they wanted me to. I couldn't do it.

I didn't want to do it. On principle? No. I didn't want my brain to be messed with. I wanted to. Yeah, it was more of a dumb creative theory that I wouldn't come up with certain thoughts if I was middled out and calmer.

I agree with you in the same way. I won't do it. Yeah, yeah, because I have this weird persistence. Maybe it's a grandiosity that through behavior we can change our actions a little bit, acting as if and all that shit. Right, right. No, I agree with you. That we can change the way we think and not deaden part of our brain. Right.

I mean, if I'm going to be an asshole, you know, and I can just try to take another action rather than take a pill. So you found a woman that somehow— Got me. Yeah, she got me. She's not an addict, but she was in the record business a long time now. She's in a great charity, urbanfarming.org, I might add. It's a great site, and they grow food in the inner cities for the homeless.

Do you farm? Not only do I not farm, I can't even watch farm documentaries. And I've never put gas in my car or changed a tire. Yeah. You didn't drive over here. You don't like to drive, right? No, I hate driving. But I've never, I don't know how to change a tire.

Come on. No, I don't. But that's a decision, right? You could learn. I could take you. You want me to teach you? No. It would take two minutes.

It's not because I died. Lewis died without changing a tire. Lewis died without filling up his, I go to a gas station near me and it's not full service anymore, except for me. Yeah. You're the guy?

I'm like Elvis. I tip the guy $20 and he does everything. They open the garage for you. We don't use this anymore, but let's get it up on the lift. Yeah, when I drive in there. It has a car. I don't know.

All right, we'll put it up. Go to Greenblatt's and we'll come back in three hours. Because there's part of me that thinks, like with guys like us, and I'm going to compare myself to you, not comedically, obviously, but just in a sort of neurotic, compulsive, addictive, self-involved way. Thanks. Yeah. Isn't that the name of your new one-man show?

I think I might add that to my bio. I thought that was in your bio. Self-absorbed. All bios are now interchangeable, apparently. No, but there was a part of me that thought when Prozac became popular that somehow or another guys like us were going to be moved out of the way because people are going to be like, isn't there medicine for his comedy?

Can't he feel better? But you do, I think, feel better. I think age sometimes does that a bit. Age for sure. I mean, I'm scared now of dying. I never thought I would be. I'm not a religious guy. I'm more of a spiritual guy.

What does that mean? I'm afraid I could drop dead here. Well, that might happen, but, you know, we'd handle it. I'd make sure everything was taken care of. Would you consider this dying on stage? No, I thought that if you dropped dead, I would go tell your driver that we've got a problem.

Call my wife. And I'd call your wife. I'd go through your pockets. And say Richard's dead. And say Richard's dead. And then I'd probably detach from it after that. Then it's not my problem. No, he's finding my wallet.

What? Picture you and Donna Reed. How'd you get that picture so uh but well no the separate Donna Reed and you okay all right so spirituality that means you just have a you know a sense that you're not alone or what yeah I used to come back I live with this really great woman in the middle ages I was a really horrible drunk and I'd come home after embarrassing her and myself and ruining the night yeah and I would look in the mirror and I'd say Richard I pray to myself yeah I'm praying to myself how can I pray to me it was unbelievable yeah and I remember they wanted to take me to rehab and they did and so I walk in there with an ex-girlfriend and who's taking me to a rehab

in Hazelden which I bolted from and I still had two more days isn't that like Minnesota or something yeah it is to see if I could kill myself two more times it's always just booze or blow too crystal meth was the end

a lot of that man that's a I can't even imagine you on meth three days into that did you There's always just booze or blow too? Crystal meth was the end, a lot of that. Man, I can't even imagine you on meth. Three days into that? Did you, I imagine that. Six days, I was like, how would Jews as a rabbi. So that must have been a lot of notebooks then, huh? Oh, you should see me trying to stay on a lot of hanging pictures. It was like a Lowell and Hardy movie.

You would stay up hanging pictures? Yeah, totally loaded. it was like a low and hardy movie hey you what you would stay up hanging pictures yeah totally loaded i mean i got a million horror stories but we don't want to do drug horror stories i just you on meth is just beautiful i can't even well the best meth story i that i have yeah two one was uh loaded and breaking down uh who's a friend of mine uh well i'll call him a good acquaintance yeah who let me use a quote of his in a book I wrote years ago, which I believe in this quote.

It's a lyric from Springsteen. It's a sad man, my friend, who's living in his own, it's a sad man, my friend, who's living in his own skin, but can't stand the company. And that's who I was. Right.

That's what every drunk is. So what was the worst mess thing? Well, Bruce. Yeah. I had never met him. I knew the band. Some of worst mess thing? Well, Bruce. Yeah. I had never met him. I knew the band. Some of the guys even opened up for me.

Yeah. And, and I, and I was very tight with the E Street band. Yeah. But Bruce, I had never met even.

So the cops, they all, they all knew I was loaded. They, you know, they. Where was this? The Meadowlands.

Okay. You were hanging out backstage. No, I, it wasn't that close with Bruce. I just went with a model and four friends and their dates. Good seats, watching the show. Great seats. And I forced myself down into the bowels of the Meadowlands.

Yeah. Because all I really wanted to say basically was, Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylanillon and now you yeah that was it there was some grand stupid little you've been planning it for like an hour to say that hour since kennedy was assassinated yeah i didn't even know springsteen was born that's a your profit i could have written him a note i could have gotten into into any number of guys who I know. Niels Lofgren's a great, anybody. Yeah. So, but I didn't.

I chose to bang on the door. And the cops are going, Richard, please, we'll take you to your seat. They were really trying to save my ass. But I said, no, no, no. I was high. I mean, I couldn't hear anything. Yeah. So Bruce comes out.

And this was his, like, workout phase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big guy. Little guy, but muscular. Yeah. And I said, you know, I was out of my mind high, and I said, Woody Guthrie, Bob, and you. And he looked at me, and he nodded his head

and turned around and went inside. Okay? Now, he could have floored me. I mean, the guy hadn't performed in four years. There's 20,000 people you can hear going, bruise, bruise. And here I am breaking up the band meeting the first night on the road.

Yeah, so that was pretty bad. That was really bad. And then I got the next day, all over the New York papers, Drunken Lewis, this, Drunken Lewis, that. Was there more to the story? Well, I did. I went to a Knick game, and I was drunk during the post-game interview.

Yeah. Then I ran over to Connie Chung, and I was interviewing her on Marlon Brando for no reason. In the middle of a Knick game. Was that a big idea you had too? No, I was drunk. I had no idea what I was doing. I was gone.

No, but the other, the crystal meth thing. Yeah. I'm name dropping, but you know why? It doesn't matter anymore because I don't give a shit. I happen to know a lot of celebrities. I'm really good, and I'm an art collector. So I bought a lot of Ronnie Wood stuff. I like Ronnie Wood.

And he's a sweet guy. I've known him for about 25 years. And so long story short, Ronnie says, I'm going out to dinner tonight with Rod Stewart and probably his third wife, 15th wife,

and his manager of mine, no longer, whatever. He's like 6 and I was dating this 23 year old drop dead killer smart

model sweet although she was into ecstasy and that kind of shit I always remember he's so much nicer on ecstasy

why drink yeah you know that was I mean look but she didn't know any better she should have just thrown me into a fucking lockup place.

But that was her responsibility. But at any rate, we're sitting there, and I said the only way I'll go is if you call your dealer, who had to drive like 90 miles and meet me at the bar of this restaurant with like three grams of crystal meth. That was a lot. Yeah.

Well, I was going to save some, I thought. Oh, God. She sees him an hour later. I go into the bar. I give the guy his bread. I go downstairs to this restaurant on the strip, famous restaurant. In fact, it's no longer there.

It was a little dome. And I never come out And I never come out. I never come out. I lose all sense of time. And I come up. They're all done with their dinner. I didn't spend any time with them talking. They were so angry.

I mean, it's funny because, you know, Rod and those guys are in and out of stuff. And, you know, I think Rod just drinks. And I don't know if he has a problem. I doubt it. But, you know, Ronnie is very publicized. And I think Ron just drinks. And I don't know if he has a problem. I doubt it. But, you know, Ron is very publicized. And I've been trying to help him forever. And he helps me, too. But the truth is, the model was this real, she was so gorgeous and so tough. And a lot of ways, she was just sitting cross-legged like a hippie at Woodstock eating a veal chop.

They wouldn't give her a chair. Because she did a little crystal meth too so she was a little loaded so you left the girl with the guys and you went and disappeared you disappeared for two hours yeah

yeah that's a big faux pas that's a faux pas yeah that's bad and the last one was a couple months ago a year ago actually

in Burbank I ran into this beautiful woman who looked familiar vaguely yeah and we started talking and she had a little girl with her. She says, you know, Richard, you were the last trunk I ever went out with.

I went, thank you. It was very lovely. And you remember her? No. Four months, this woman, lovely woman, actress, was my girlfriend for four months, and I had an entire blackout for the entire dating time. Well, that makes things interesting as you get older.

People showing up going, do you remember? And you're like, oh, fuck. Well, you don't know, though. That's scary. Yeah. Yeah. I'm your grandfather. Yeah, yeah.

You're 10 years old, man. That hasn't happened. But we've gotten to the drug stuff, so. Well, okay. I just read an article on Shecky Green. Did you ever, like in your past past because you know i'm not going to say you're you're you're older but it seems to me 63 but you honor the the legacy of great jewish comedy and those guys and you're right and you know i you know i told you i interviewed jonathan

winters and you love him he's like one of my best friends i talk to him every day for the last six years oh you do that's i go up and visit that's sweet you know why because i remember as a kid hearing how dick van dyke and others would pay homage to Stan Laurel. Had this very modest one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. Stan fucking Laurel. Doesn't get much better than that guy. And they'd go visit him and stuff? Yeah, always.

So when I became closer to Jonathan, I just wanted to be like his standing room only audience friend for his riffs. Let him just riff to me. It's amazing, right? He's Picasso to me. Yeah. I mean, he's different than Lenny and Pryor. Did you ever see Lenny? No, I was too young.

Yeah. How about Richard? You probably knew him. Yeah, Richard I knew and saw. Because you were at the comedy store, right? Well, mainly the improv. Okay. He worked at mainly the comedy store, but i saw him in new york yeah

when in new york i saw him in town hall i saw him in clubs um yeah were you friends with him not great friends we never socialized together but he respected me though i think and um i think arguably he's the greatest because not only does he tell the truth same way yeah but he has more weapons not only did voices and characters, which is always, it's not an easy out, but it's fun. I mean, I do know, but he talked about himself.

He was the same on and off stage, tragically. And he was just drop dead funny. You can't get much funnier and more provocative than that guy. And Lenny opened the door for him. Yeah him yeah well lenny sort of created the template for us yeah yeah it's very interesting you listen to those old richard pryor albums he's almost sounds jewish like when he when he first got once like cosby almost well but they well he started he sounded like cosby but once he started to talk about real shit it was almost as if he took the lenny bruce system and applied it

to how he was going to approach comedy yeah no absolutely it's interesting and free associates what about where does woody allen stand in the richard lewis uh well woody allen first of all you know a lot of these guys like larry david who no one knew was a great comedian albert brooks you know albert's so good i wish he would come on the show. He's a genius, Albert. He's a creative or something. And his book's terrific, too. But the truth of the matter is,

these guys all quit. Well, Larry in his 30s, Albert and Woody in their 20s. Quit doing stand-up. Yeah. So, you know, you know, it's not,

jealousy is the wrong word, but it's like, this is my 41st year, so I never quit. Did you expect that to be the case, though? I mean, you but it's like, I've been, this is my 41st year, so I never quit. Did you expect that to be the case, though? I mean, you've had sitcoms,

you've had TV success. Well, I think the alcoholism and the drug addiction probably prevented me from maybe, by this time, had directed a few movies

and throwing away millions of dollars and giving away, at the height of my career, you know, opportunities because I just wanted to party. But you know what? I know people who hung themselves, you know, opportunities because I just wanted to party. Yeah.

But you know what? I know people who hung themselves, you know what I mean? So is it hang themselves? Yeah. You know, hung themselves. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, it's sort of like I didn't burn as, I'm with you right now.

Yeah. You know, so, I mean, I'm alive. But is there any of that moment, do you ever feel like, fuck, I'm doing stand-up still? No, stand-up to me is one of the great crafts of all time. Yeah. I love it. It's so pure.

Yeah. And the only notes I give are what I get from the audience, if they laugh or not, and what I feel about my show afterwards. Now, with Larry, you guys go, how far back do you go? We go back to when we were 12. And I had mentioned this, and I can do it in 20 seconds or less. I went to this sports camp, which was very famous in New York State and he was there Larry a gangly despicable human being annoying I hated him you hated him and hated him hate hatred but that's why you remember him but he hated me but that's interesting as is uh but that's what bonded you well what

happened was usually when you meet somebody at a camp yeah we say hey maybe our our parental drivers into manhattan will go to radio city and see ben hurr or some shit you know we're 12 you know but he was as my mother would say that's z on my list yeah i would make me laugh because the last thing i would ever do was see this fucking guy. Yeah. He annoyed me that much. Yeah. And vice versa.

Yeah. So I became a comic first and he became, he was a real fan. He liked me. He liked me. Right. Then he became a comic

and I heard about him and I went, whoa, what a fucking brain this guy's got. Yeah. So he helped me move out of my college girlfriend's apartment.

We were inseparable. Yeah. Every day I saw move out of my college girlfriend's apartment. We were inseparable. Every day I saw him. I performed every day, two or three sets a night. At Catch and the Improv? Everywhere. Yeah. I would drive to Long Island for $5, 100 miles round trip. I did not care.

In fact, this guy, George Schultz, who we saw in a club, Pips in Brooklyn, said to me, he says, you got it, but if you don't eat, shit, suck, and fuck this business, you'll never make it. You gotta be ruthlessly passionate about it. I'm paraphrasing the last line, but he did say you have to eat, suck, shit, and fuck this.

He was the owner of Pips. He wasn't like Keith, John Keith. Did he own the place? Was that that guy? Yeah, but they called him the Ear, because he really knew. He really knew. you and larry would go down there no not larry the thing with larry and i worked out the improv yeah and catch mainly the original improv so one night around one o'clock you know he wasn't a drinker or a big drug guy at all yeah at all yeah i was so um i don't know if i was loaded or whatever, but I looked at him.

It's like I'm looking at you, and I went, there's something about you that's scaring the hell out of me, man. And he got spooked really fast. Yeah. I said, stop it. What are you scaring me? He said, no, no. It's like Rosemary's Baby.

It was like half a sheep, half a Jew, comedian, Jewish. Yeah. So he says, what are you talking about? I said, no, no. There's something about you that's scaring me. So somehow we got into retracing our childhood, and I got back to 12, and I went to this camp. You guys didn't remember each other?

Until I said, I went to this Camp All-America. He said, I went to Camp All-America. And then it hit me. I went, wait a minute. You're that Larry David? He says, you're that Richard Lewis? And we came to blows at the bar. No, you didn't. Yeah. Oh, but that Richard Lewis and we came to blows at the bar no you didn't

yeah oh but that well we hated each other but that's like what I was it's a billion to one show we went from hatred best friends

to hatred to inseparable again yeah now I don't see him much anymore you know he's divorced obviously everyone knows he has two beautiful daughters

but you know we don't you know the thing I miss most about New York one of the things. Yeah. Everybody's around. You're around.

You hop a cab. I'll see you in a minute. Yeah, right there, yeah. Here, you know, all right, so is there a, you know. Can we meet halfway somewhere? Yeah, really. It's 80 miles. I don't care what kind of, is it Vietnamese?

I'll eat a dead dog, but I won't. But I can't drive 80 miles. I'll eat a dead dog for 40 won't if but i can't drive 80 miles i'll eat a dead dog for 40 miles yeah it's not really it's horrible yeah so i don't see larry that often you talk to him yeah we email more yeah so but that's interesting to me that you you have a sense of the fact that these guys albert brooks woody allen and larry david on some level are not the same type of warrior that you are in terms of stand-up. Yeah, it sounded like I was boasting. No, no, no, I understand it. A lot of it has to do with...

I'm still out there. I was so judged by my family, particularly my mother, that it makes sense to me now that I would hear the words, ladies and gentlemen, Richard Lewis, not have an act, not knowing what I was going to say and say alright judge me I want to be judged every fucking night but it would turn me into a warrior on the road like

yeah I'm going to fucking I'm going to take this audience and do the and try my best to just destroy them you know because that's your thought yeah did you ever go through that period where you're like defying them to like you like there's part of me that's sort of like I almost want them to not like me so I can win them back. The only thing I can come close to that is that early on in my career, if I was bombing, I would want to bomb on my own terms.

Right. So I would say, look, they're not even laughing at this good shit. Right. At the gold. Yeah. So I'd say, anyway, so I bumped into Kafka

and he's playing Jim with Eddie Cantor. I would just do meaningless bullshit that would really bomb. Right. Then I'd walk off. I'd go,

you know, fuck, you know, in my head, fuck him. Yeah. But you know, it's not their fault.

I know. That's hard to learn though, isn't it? Huh? How long did it take you to learn it's not their fault? Oh, I don't know. But it's a good question. Great question.

You know what I mean? Is there an algebra answer to that? Algebraic? No, but some guy said something interesting to me. This guy, Stuart Lee, British comedian. Yeah. And he quit for two years because he couldn't take it anymore. The fact that how much he was angry at the audience for not fucking getting him.

And then something happened in his soul where he realized that when he sees somebody who's not getting him, he feels bad for them because he knows he is who he is and he's not for everybody. And there's a moment where he's like, I'm sorry you made the wrong entertainment decision, but there's nothing I can do for you.

But I feel bad that this is how you spent your evening. But I actually apologize immediately when I go on stage. I go, half of you were dragged here. You can jerk off. You can go have a drink. But you don't have to stay. What's the best thing that can happen on stage for you on any given show? Like, is there a moment?

Well, I had to live so much. That high is over with now. It used to be really great. Oh, really? That's gone? Jesus Christ. What else is there? Yeah. live so much that's that high is over with now it doesn't it used to be really great oh really that's gone jesus christ what else is there yeah i'll tell you when they rise to their feet okay there's nothing like it okay because for me you know if you say that one thing where you're like where the hell that come from you know but i i really i'm not you do that too much now i've been doing it for like 15 years that way so now i'm used to it yeah I'm used to the I don't that used to be such a high

yeah if you were doing in particular you know the same 40 or 50 minutes and all of a sudden you stink something in right

I laugh now when someone says hey I'm trying a new joke a week from Tuesday you want to come down I go wow what the fuck are you nuts

you know but you know I was just playing in Dallas. Yeah. And this club owner, he's a nice guy. Yeah.

And he might have done this tongue-in-cheek. Right. I remember telling my wife, because this is about the time I engaged, I asked her to marry me about six years ago. And it was one of those nights. There was probably maybe no more than like two or three Jews in the audience. Most of them were right-wing evangelical,

which is fine. I don't give a shit. Yeah. Anyway, so I do this show. Yeah. It's a Sunday night. And when you do nightclubs, Yeah.

and I do some at the nice rooms, the opening night audience, and in particular the Sunday night audience, when they come see you, they really want to see you. That's the best. Thursday and in particular the Sunday night audience when they come see you they really want to see you. That's the best. Thursday and Sunday is the best. The best.

That's because your fans come. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm there Sunday night and it just happened to be jammed. Yeah, 400 people or something. And I was just on fire. It was just one of those good nights.

Yeah. And they rose to their feet and I didn't know what the word was until I called my wife from Dallas. I went,'m walking through they're standing up it's always a thrill to make people rise to their feet why that happened you don't know but and it doesn't but i'm not trying to boast here but it was they kept applauding and this owner said i have never seen anything like this i went well you know i'm i'm grateful for it and take me back to my hotel and pay me yeah I'm gonna get me get me out of here yeah so he takes me back and he's still while he's driving I've never seen anything

like this because before we left the club people would walk over aisles it's called that the stigmata when they wanted to touch the Christ right right right they want they were touching me. Yeah. I went, what's going on? And he says, I've never seen it. He knew. Yeah.

And I asked my wife, and she was back in L.A., and she says, it's like the stigmata. You're like, they wanted to touch you. I went, get out of here. He said, no, no. I said, then this was maybe the greatest show that's ever happened. Yeah. In Dallas.

In Dallas. So I get to the hotel the guy gives me my envelope yeah and this is what show business is basically in a nutshell they want the best acts actors writers

for the least amount of money right so they're never gonna boast too much about you it's a guy giving you an envelope that's what it is that's funny great name for a book

guy giving me an envelope they're clueless that's funny great name for a book god give me an emblem they're clueless about why we're on stage yeah and why shouldn't they yeah but i said and i thought not being arrogant but here's you know 400 texans you know i'm and i've been talking about christ for 20 minutes yeah wanting to touch me yeah feel my shirt yeah my skin i don't know it was weird yeah but but i knew it was a positive thing they weren't going to put me up on a cross not yet you know you spent another day there and had a mediocre show you might end up on the cross that's true well i haven't i had a i rented it i got out of there yeah no matter how i have to get out even if it's by camel

for four weeks first out of fear of drinking no out of fear that they will hang me yeah okay or the client or something so anyway

so I say to the guy he hands me the check and I go well I'll see you next year okay yeah and he said well maybe

he said I said maybe and and had I been drinking He said, well, maybe. I said, maybe? And had I been drinking, I wasn't a mean drunk, but I was a... Rage? No, I said things I didn't mean, but I wasn't a guy going, you know, fisticuffs and shit. But had I been drinking after that show and this guy said maybe, I might have just jumped right into the window and tried. tried I'm not a strong guy but I probably would have punched him yeah because it made me it was so grotesque that the guy couldn't

give me credit and yeah I just feel you feel the heaviness there right just hits you like they're like oh yeah we take that away from me for you little fuck you know my wife again she said to me said when you go to something do some some gigs are really cushy yeah and they pay a lot of money and some gigs don't she's regardless if you're playing dallas there are people that in their 40s or 50s that might have grown up on you yeah and uh watch on letterman when they're in college i said they and there you are and i'm not trying to boast he, they're paying a lot of money. It's a recession.

They want you to, it's do it for them. Fuck the owners. Fuck the promoters. And he said, otherwise you're just sabotaging your own career. Right.

And I really do it that way. You know, just before I go on, I go, just do it for those people. Yeah, do it for the people who love you.

Who paid money to see me. Yeah. Don't do it for the guy who's getting a blowjob by the safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they deserve to make it. So who are your friends

in comedy? Right now, it's you. Just me? This is it? I'm very isolated. Yeah. And what does a day look like?

Do you eat healthy? What do you do? Do you exercise? Yeah, I exercise. I exercise and I don't eat. It's very hard now for me to eat what I used to eat because of my wife. She showed me pictures of cows like fucking. What was your thing?

Did you like, were you brought up on the Jewish food? On the Jewish food. I just picture you because like you were i grew up a jew in new mexico so you were sort of like you were yeah my parents are from jersey and i grew up mostly in new mexico but i go back to i went to school in boston i uh you know i spent a lot of family in jersey but i'd always love to go to part of jersey because i live in pompton lakes which is oh that's by wayne and uh yeah i think it's uh right over the george washington bridge yeah in fort lee and angler yeah by a buddy hackett well my father was a Oh, that's... By Wayne and... Oh, yeah, yeah. I think it's... I lived right over the George Washington Bridge.

Yeah, in Fort Lee. In Englewood, yeah. By Buddy Hackett. Well, my father was a caterer. Yeah. The best one. Yeah. So he catered every star,

and he was booked on my bar mitzvah. Yeah. So I had to have it on a Tuesday. My own father... You had a bar mitzvah on Tuesday? First time in Jewish history. So you grew up in the food business? Yeah. Oh, my God. in the food business? Yeah. Oh, my God.

I'm bearable. Yeah. And my name and my company is one of them, Melon Ball, because he could have brought home great food from the commissary, steaks and chai, but he only brought home honeydew and cantaloupe in tins. That's hilarious.

He shit our brains out for 20 years. I have my grandmother's melon baller I still have it the scoop the scoop but it's got a wooden handle it was hers

that's great I held on to that fucking thing you should those are cool can I just I want to give you anything you want but I gotta tell you this

the only reason I'm a little slow today is because I I'm just getting over this bad cough and I did about 10 shows in the last two weeks it's actually good.

You relaxed. I wrote a book in 2001 called The Jerusalem Syndrome. My Life as a Reluctant Messiah. As a what Messiah? Reluctant Messiah. That's funny. I'll give it to you. You'll like it.

But I just got to point something out to you. Sure. Because I've had to live with this. And it has to do with you. I did a bit. Yeah. I did a bit. Yeah. I did a bit. I used to do this bit about going to the Philip Morris factory.

You know, because I wanted to quit smoking. Right. And then I got there and they had a sign on the desk that said, please feel free to smoke. And I was like, this is tremendous. Right. And then I go to this film strip, right? Did you try to get the job there because you knew you could smoke at a cigarette factory? It was unbelievable.

I could have lived there. Right. So I go into this film presentation not realizing how corporations work they own a lot of other corporations they own craft foods miller beer of course and all this stuff and in the bit i said it looked like the food pyramid in hell in hell not from hell right the editor changed it to from hell and i said From Hell. And I said, you've got to be fucking kidding me. So anytime I have, like, there's only so much I can do, but when I give the book to people, I correct it in the copy, because I'm like, that's not my bit.

Well, when it comes out in paperback, you should put it in the forward. It only came out in paperback. I'm no big star, but I just wanted to tell you that. Well, you know, I really did popularize that thing. Of course you did. I mean, it got to a point where I couldn't say it anymore because they would i i felt them it was a hook was there but it was an unintentional hook it was a metaphor for me yeah for being victimized

right everything it's like i don't get no respect yeah it was hyperbole right but you know the truth of the matter is it's in the yale book of quotations but they still didn't write it properly it was about me feeling of being a victim of any person, place or thing and it was never my fault and the way they wrote it wasn't exactly the way I intended it on stage but

that's okay, I'm flattered that you would even that may be very uncomfortable for a long time and I'm glad we were able to get closure on that did people ever read it and say no doesn't richard lewis say that no no because it's just like it's one little thing in a book but it bothered me because it was it was in hell it was a clear i mean i i was making a a visual i wasn't matt gronick life in hell yeah well i mean i wasn't worried it wasn't the whole book now i'm worried now i'm worried that you ripped two people off the other one yeah how dare you i did but it was just no in hell it's not the whole book. Now I'm worried that you ripped two people off. Oh, God, yeah. How dare you?

But it was just, no, in-house, it's not the same. No, it's not the same. But I'm going to get over it. Yeah, resentment's a bad thing. Did you ever meet Buddy Hackett? Yeah, my father catered to his son's bar mitzvah. Oh, he did? Yeah.

So he had a Saturday party. I had a Tuesday party. When I was in college, some professor brought me over a double album, Lenny Bruce Live at Berkeley. That's a motherfucker, that record. I mean, you gotta listen to that nine times just to get his flow.

But when I heard about it, when I heard it, I was only about 18. Yeah. And he died a year later. Yeah. I said, I didn't know what I wanted to be,

but I knew unconsciously it set a bar like, if you can't even try to be this ferocious and fearless what's the point yeah and well that album's like the fucking rosetta stone because you know there's so many layers man yeah i but i have any i still have at home yeah the quran theater and and at carnegie hall which i haven't heard because i don't like to hear certainly from his head premises because it's too close. You really, you've had to detach yourself from almost all comedy because of fear.

I have. I haven't gone to a comedy club in about 20 years. Was there a situation that provoked that or are you just protecting yourself? No. I was, first of all, protect, I like, I wanted my palate to be clear. Like if I heard, if I heard you do a routine, let's say it was a B+, not even an A. Yeah.

Okay, because you're really very, very funny. But let's say it was a B+, but it was about a cardigan. Yeah. I wouldn't even, the cardigan would be off my brain maybe for years. Yeah. I'd say, oh God, you know, he did it. I don't want to even talk about it.

You got a mental file. I throw that card away. Yeah, but we all know that most people aren't that ethical and they steal. The bad thing about stealing is that when people steal from younger comics who have been working on something and do it on a talk show, they'll side with the famous comedian. The business will and the fans will. And the audiences. can you imagine,

like these guys who go on cruises, they can rent any number of dozens of videos, take, say, 10 minutes out of Eddie Murphy's, 10 minutes, pardon me, stuff from you, from me, and they can do an hour that's fucking drop dead kill and the audience won't know. No. Nor will they care.

No, they're waiting for the buffet. Right. Yeah. Pass the pears, Harvey. Yeah, so it comes all back around. I didn't get pears. I didn't get pears. Did you get pears?

Unbelievable. So, okay, in closing, and be honest with me. Haven't I been? Yeah. Do you have a little peace of mind, a little happiness and be honest with me. Haven't I been? Yeah. Do you have a little peace of mind, a little happiness in your life? Absolutely. That's good. Yeah, no, I do.

The biggest thing is that I was able to stop killing myself. When you go from a day where, when you're sitting across from a doctor in New York, and you know that you're going to have to stop, you're going to have to live the rest of your life without drinking and know that it's entirely impossible to do, to almost 17 years without a drink, it's impossible not to have some sense of gratitude. And what I try to do is not to squander this sobriety

and try to figure out what got me so crazy to begin with that I wanted to medicate myself all the time. Could you find out? Well, there's no, you know, there's still things I do that drive people crazy, but much less so. And I think that the thing I do more, the two things that I think I do better than ever is I apologize immediately when I think I'm wrong. But the other thing that I do, which is really great, and sometimes people mention it on TV and they're not supposed to, but I have helped people help themselves save their lives. Well, that's part of the deal. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the same deal. I mean, I'm not, I mean, there's 12-step programs. I go to therapists. I have like a smorgasbord. But when you take, when you help somebody come out of the darkness, there's nothing better than that. Yeah. And that's the best standing ovation you can get.

Yeah, I agree with you. But in retrospect. That's why I don't drink, by the way. One of the reasons. Not only would my wife just throw me into rehab and call a million people and they'd be in the house waiting for me like a posse. But the truth is, I wouldn't be able to pick up a phone call an hour before I go on

where a guy whacked out of mine and then me getting on the phone. Get over to help me, he's going to die. I couldn't do it because I'm sitting there drinking vodkas out of the refrigerator. I would then lose my sheriff's badge to help other people so that that helps me stay sober now in in in retrospect you know in dealing with where that came from because you know i i struggle with that myself do you do you trace it back to your folks i mean can you feel where the the love was you know missing or or what the the abandonment thing is or what created that yeah yeah i, yeah. I was the youngest.

My sister, I had a niece when I was 12. Yeah. She was gone. My brother was in the village wearing a beret reading Ginsburg poems. What's the age difference? 11 and 9. So, you know, they're in their 70s. And, you know, I have, so I sort of, but my father was a workaholic never home and died

in his 50s yeah never saw me perform never saw me get into show business my mother did but my mother had a lot of problems so so she when my father died she was basically cracked up so I mean it's like she never really she was was maybe jealous of me, which is. So she tried to constantly put you down? Well, I would hear from, oh, your mother loves you. Right. But then I would take her on shows like even on Stern. Yeah.

And she would do things that, you know, Stern loved her. Maybe it had been good radio for him, but I was always trying to get her approval. Right. Until I realized it was sabotaging my career right i did a warm-up before connolly hall in my hometown theater in englewood new jersey yeah and she came two hours before the show and stood in the middle of the lobby and introduced herself as my my mother all about her they all knew that's it look look she had problems i had problems but i mean I mean, so when I would do high, you know, you're you. So I mean, you understand.

So if I, this is not a joke, but if I did, so my father had 12 penises, one out of the skull cap, whatever it would be, some dumb thing, not dumb. My mother would stand up and say, oh, your dad, your father didn't have 12 penises. It was unbearable. Because she had to yeah and then i took her on the on the abc news show in new york eight you know five three million people the plug a date brought her on again for her approval she says you know what my son's best joke is and all of a sudden i got nervous i mean what do you mean my i don't even tell that many jokes. She did a Myron Cohen joke.

A Myron Cohen joke? Like an eight-minute joke. In Yiddish? It ended in Yiddish. And I said, that's your favorite joke of mine? Like, I really would say that. And we're live in New York, and I'm going, yeah, like, I'm really doing that joke. And then the cast, the crew was all nervous.

It was like Rosemary's Baby in the vibe. It was like 10 Below Zero in the fucking studio. Because you actually had a fight with your mother. Well, the bottom line is, and I've said this, but when I got to Tonight Show in the early 70s, I called her right across from the whiskey, and I said, Mother, I'm going to be on with Johnny this week, Johnny Carson.

Took me two and a half years to get on the show, which is pretty fast, yeah think about it and I said I'm gonna be on the tonight show with Johnny Carson and she said quote unquote and respects basically speaks volumes of what it was who else is on with you okay yeah there you go that's it that's the not That's the current. That's why I'm a comic. The missing puzzle. That's my, there's Rosebud. We got it. Thanks for sharing. Okay.