WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - The Friday Show Special

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

For New Year’s Day, Marc introduces you to The Friday Show, a weekly episode available to Full Maron subscribers, hosted by WTF producer Brendan McDonald and Kris Lo Presto, a friend of theirs from back in the Air America Radio days. You’ll hear Marc, Brendan and Kris discuss the movie Air, a conversation with film critic Matt Singer about Siskel & Ebert, a celebration of the 30th anniversary of the film The Fugitive, and more. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks happy new year to you good morning happy new year this is. This is the new year. Happy New Year. We'll see what happens. You know, we'll hope for the best. We'll expect not that. And we'll see what we get. I mean, look, just try to have as good a day as you can every day, right? Happy New Year is a lot of pressure. And I think it's a false expectation, but what do I know about anything? Have a good day.

Have a good year. If this is you looking at the beginning of it, I've lost all sense of time post-COVID. COVID destroyed my sense of time. Every day feels like a week. Every week feels like a month. Every month feels like a year. Maybe that's just my age. So every

year, calendar year has about 12 years for me. Maybe that's just, that's old people time. Maybe that's what happens post 60. But I hope you did have a fun night last night and a safe night. And I hope that if you are looking at this as day one, as some great adventure or some tremendous shift in the way you approach life and your perception of the world, congratulations. Good luck with that. Happy New Year. So today's show is interesting. We have a subscription tier called The Full Marin, and we do bonus episodes every week. Movie talk.

We talk about episodes in the WTF archive. Ask Mark anything episodes with listener questions. Lots of stuff. We do this stuff. But also, at the end of every week, Full Marin subscribers get the Friday show, an end of the week wrap-up show. And it's hosted by WTF producer, Brendan McDonald and Chris Lopresto, who worked with us at Air America back in the day. We started doing the Friday show because we got a bunch of new Full Marin subscribers when we did the Wrestling with Mark series about a year ago. A lot of them joined just for the

wrestling episodes. So to keep giving them what they wanted, Brendan and Chris started talking about wrestling stuff every week. This is WTF's, this is our big secret. This is the secret show hidden in the WTF universe. But the show evolved into a weekly look behind the scenes of WTF with recaps of the latest episodes, questions from listeners, stories about guests, and whatever else Brendan and Chris feel like talking about, movies, sports, TV shows, and they take topic suggestions from Full Marin

subscribers too. So today, you all get a taste of the Friday show with this special compilation. If you want to hear all our bonus episodes, we do two every week, sign up for the full Marin by clicking the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. My rescheduled show at Dynasty Typewriter, because I had some sort of bug last week, is this Thursday, January 3rd. Then I'm at Largo on Tuesday, January 9th, San Diego. I'm at the Observatory North Park, Saturday, January 27th, for two shows.

San Francisco at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd. Portland, Maine, I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts, outside Boston at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Atlanta, Georgia. I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd. I'll be in Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets. And there's a lot of other shows up there that I'll announce as we get closer to them. But if you're curious, if I'll be in proximity to you, wtTFpod.com slash tour is where you need to go. Okay, so look, in this collection of Friday show segments, you'll hear Chris and Brendan talk with Matt Singer, author of the book Opposable Thumbs, How Siskel and Ebert Changed Movies Forever. There's also a celebration of the 30th anniversary of The Fugitive, a story of Chris being banned for life

from a grocery store, and a moment when the real world turned into pro wrestling. But the first thing you'll hear is me. From time to time, I join Brendan and Chris on The Friday Show to hang out, and this is right after we all saw the movie Air. Some of the music you'll hear in this special

was created by DJ Copley, a.k.a. Web Puppy 45, and his production label, Bat Cave Bumpers. Enjoy the Friday show, friends, and happy new year again. I mean that. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month.

So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business death is in our air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. How are you, man? How's your brain? My brain? I don't know, man. It seems to be a little janky. Well, yeah, I'm interested to know exactly what was behind this text I received at 1258 today. It just says, wonder if this vegan trip is fucking with my brain, like I'm not getting enough brain food. Well, that makes sense.

How is that not a weird? How is that not? How is that a weird text? That makes sense. How is that not a weird, how is that a weird text? I want to know what food you think is specifically, A, giving you better intelligence or more connected neuropathways and which ones are harming. Oh, I heard that the bad cholesterol, you need some of it for your brain. Okay.

So what, are you going to have some eggs? Right, the meat cholesterol. It it for your brain. Okay. So what, are you going to have some eggs? Right. The meat cholesterol. Oh. It goes to your brain. It's brain food. And that if you get too low on that, you know, you get loopy. I'm pretty sure a carrot counts.

Like, I think that counts. I don't know. Sure. I mean, if you want to believe Bugs Bunny. Yeah, and spinach is good, too. That's for strength. That's not for brain. That's for the muscle. Bugs Bunny was very crafty, though.

He could, like, just talk you into putting your head in an oven. So I kind of believe in the carrot. No, I think that's probably true. I just, I don't know, man. I'm going to go get those blood tests tomorrow, and we'll hammer it out that was not your doctor today today was a the yearly or semi-yearly uh skin check oh okay where they just look at your body uh the guy and he says things like that you don't understand to a nurse like a subcutaneous stinker the cutaneous and then like you know just counted little things

on my body nothing bad I always like when they're behind you and you hear them go like I'm like wait what's that good or bad sure sure it's worse when they when they're giving a prostate exam I haven't done that yet

you're one of those guys what are you a fucking idiot no i'm only like 43 when are you supposed to get them 45 right all right well yeah i think there is different like insurance like prostate exams different though than colonoscopy right but you can get a finger up your ass anytime yeah yeah i'll be in the city tomorrow for my end yeah just ask it's not gonna be a professional opinion but i mean you don't know baby i know a guy yeah tompkins square park there's a lot of barter that goes on there oh you want to might want to go to a lobby of a hotel somewhere the other thing Mark that we could talk about here briefly is that you saw the movie Air which now the three of us have all seen and I think is a great example for you know especially for

people listening to this the idea that this movie, is about the creation of Nike sneakers, specifically around the mid-'80s NBA, and it was still such a compelling, interesting movie, fun movie to watch. Like, that is a great proof of concept that you can make a movie out of anything. Well, yeah, but I could see the story, but it is true. I don't know why they chose that story. It's my feeling that they're probably going to do in five different uh sport movies like this you know they're going to do one about running shorts about rackets about golf balls i'm sure you can find the story anywhere about clubs golf clubs yeah yeah i i think we might have been in a new era of movie making. It's now brands.

I want to know how our brand came to be. I think that's kind of universally beloved as a worldwide global IP, the way comic books are and Star Wars and that. So yeah, they're going to go to brands. Heinz Ketchup would be a good one. Yeah, what is it? 57.

You double that up, you got a whole movie. No, no, no, we're talking television series. That's the number of episodes. I'd like to see a miniseries on the history of Jägermeister. Yeah, I would love to come back. Oh, but you know what is actually a really good one? They should definitely do this. Stroh's Beer.

There's apparently some story about the family got in a war with each other over Stroh's. Oh, really? Eventually wound up selling it to Pabst, and everyone lost all their money. Yeah, like they should definitely make the Stroh's Brewing War movie. Yeah, I think this is a more uplifting movie than the OxyContin family thing. The Sackler one?

Oh, yeah, the Sackler thing. Not an uplifting brand movie. No, actually, I think there's a new Tetris movie. I think we really are living in this brand reality. Yes. Brands are going to be the next movie. They're making one about the making of the Blackberry, too. From the point of view of the Blackberry.

That's going to be the weirdest thing. Stop touching me! I don't know what that one's for, either. Oh, my God. You used to have a whole thing in your act about blackberries about how if you hit the T it went up to the top remember that? yeah yeah sure it was like oh you're a genius come back

wizard lady oh yeah that's right I remember you were like one of these days I'm just going to see a kid flying and would be like dude how do you do that i don't know my phone does it that still could happen oh more so than ever yeah absolutely i don't know my phone does it one thing i thought was uh was interesting about air was was literally the complete lack

of villains. There's no, like I guess, other than like Adidas or Converse, there's no villains in the movie. It's just like, is this guy going to make this crazy deal happen? Yeah, and, well, you know, the guy Phil Knight,

is that his name? He comes off as kind of a dick a bit. But totally in the end, they convert him, right? That's like the whole third act thing is that he comes around. I thought what was great was just seeing how all those guys handled the job of acting. Like, you know, all of them. Yes. Ben, Matt, Jason, Chris Tucker, and well, Viola Davis is Viola Davis,

but they all are very different actors. Yeah. And Matt Damon's the best. Yeah. Especially when he's fat Damon. Fat Damon. Fat Matt. Yeah.

Yeah. He's great. Yeah, because he's just like, he's let himself go. He's egoless. He plays a great schlump. And yeah, because he's a schl he's just he plays a great schlump and yeah because he he's he's a schlub with megawatt charm still like he can he's never going to be able to hide what's appealing about him yeah i thought it was great because um i i don't know like i don't really know anything

about basketball and nor did you have to yeah no exactly and it was a good story and you know it was of a time i really i really thought that, you know, it was of a time. I really thought that the, you know, it can get kind of annoying when they've obviously dug up and had the set deck find all the equipment from the period. Like, I'd never seen it showcased quite so specifically. It was literally just a shameless montage here and there of things that people had. Oh, but I didn't think, I thought that was a 1 million percent story intentional. Sure. No, it was no problem.

Yeah, that it was like they were, he was trying to show how important brands are in this emerging culture. What was it, a Game Boy there? There was a Game Boy. There was just a scene where he goes into a 7-Eleven and you just get every logo that you know on the shelves. Hustler.

Yeah, Hustler. There was a Wonder Bread. And it was deliberately showing you the kind of color of the logos. And I felt like it all wound up paying off that when you finally see that Jordan silhouette logo, you're like, oh, that's as important as the Ghostbusters logo or whatever it was they showed earlier on in the movie that you're like oh that's as important as the ghostbusters logo or whatever it was they

showed earlier on in the movie that you're like yeah this guy earned his money like it absolutely it becomes a story about personal worth that like yeah and viola davis you know as as jordan's mom is like yeah you will not undervalue my son he is is worth this. God, he certainly was, it seems. I mean, 400 million a year in passive income. Isn't that wild? It's crazy. By the way, the fact that you don't know anything about basketball, I guess the very last moment of that movie really resonated for you because you got to find out that Michael Jordan happened

to become one of the best professional basketball players of all time. Wow, look at this. I was so excited for him. Where you're like, I don't know if he's going to do it. I don't know. Yeah, it turned out to be true.

Everything his mom said. It's like the end of Walk Hard where they're like the real Dewey Cox. Oh, the real dewey cox oh the real michael jordan huh he was a real guy after all well yeah i pulled one of those horrible old man things with my my girlfriend the other night where i'm like it's too bad about the helicopter thing and she's like um that that was kobe bryant yeah well that was i felt like sent you on this brain spiral that you like you're concerned about because and it's like that's just a normal thing to do when you don't follow this stuff and i said michael jordan's still alive and she's like yeah oh my god that's good

yeah knock on fucking wood but man that was close that was close could happen to anybody tell me what you think chris i bet mark would like the last dance oh absolutely you would yeah what's that i like most things if they're yeah this was like it was it was like peak covid right like right at the time where no one could go anywhere that uh espPN had this eight part, is it? I think it's eight. I think it's eight or 10. I think it's 10.

A documentary about the Chicago Bulls, the Jordan era Chicago Bulls. And it was the first major documentary produced with the cooperation of everyone involved. So that's Jordan and Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson, Dennis Rodman, everybody associated with that team. And it's really

entertaining and you and and probably the best so far the best actual look at michael jordan and his like the psychology of that guy and he's not just a one-of-a-kind basketball player he's a one-of-a-kind human being you're like oh yeah they don't make people like this but what was he uh was he a good baseball player? No, no, no, no, terrible. I mean, he didn't, he won three championships and then he retired, which is still shrouded in like mystery and controversy,

mostly because people couldn't understand. It's like JFK getting shot. Like people were like, this had to be a conspiracy, right? It wouldn't just happen. So there's all this conspiracy about he was forced to because of a gambling problem or something. But nobody ever knows. And it's at this point now, if there was a conspiracy, it probably would have come out.

And Occam's razor is probably where you go with this, that he just burned out. His dad had been murdered. And so he was just like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. And I'm so great. I'm going to go approach something else and he tried to make it in major league baseball uh he never made it past like double a baseball in chicago in the minors he was bad at that too um and why did they kill his dad it's it was a

carjacking that uh you know was was a robbery and dad got killed. And that's also been fed into this conspiracy about like why he, oh, well maybe that was a gambling debt or something, but it looks like it was just a robbery. But yeah, he winds up coming back. What kind of debt could that guy not have paid? Well, exactly. He's huge gambling.

You know, he loves poker and stuff, you know. Yeah, but he makes 400 million a year in his in his sleep right you're right yeah what kind of what kind of debt would michael jordan have to say god give me another week fellas well my guess is if there was any kind of if there was ever anything like that it wouldn't be because he couldn't pay it was just because he probably didn't right like like that that could definitely be the kind of guy who gets in a situation and goes, no, fuck you. I'm not giving you your money.

And somebody feels like they got to teach him a lesson. But I want to reiterate, I don't think that's true. I think he just quit basketball and went to play baseball and then came back and he won three more championships. Yeah. Amazing. It sounds like he was really a great player and I enjoyed learning about his shoe. Yeah.

It's a very special episode for us today. Matt Singer. Matt Singer is a film critic and a writer and historian on film who now has a great book. It's called Opposable Thumbs, How Siskel and Ebert Changed Movies Forever. And Chris, I mean, I don't know that there's much more that we have to say that we don't say

in our actual conversation with Matt. But I mean, like, suffice it to say, as much as we've talked about wrestling or sports or anything that we don't say in our actual conversation with Matt, but I mean, like, suffice it to say, as much as we've talked about wrestling or sports or anything that we talk about here, like, Siskel and Ebert are as formative to our lives as any other element of culture. Would you say that's fair? Absolutely, that's fair.

I mean, this was a show I would thumb through my TV guide to make sure it was on when it was on last week. Because sometimes it would change. It got moved around. Yes, it got moved around. So I had to literally appointment television this. And it's something I sought out. And it is just something near and dear to my heart. Because these two guys were in my life for so long.

And like, yes, they were, you know, talking about movies, but they also showed clips of movies, which was super important because in those days it wasn't a thing. Yeah. You saw commercials on TV and that was it. You didn't get to see other movie clips unless you went to the movie. And this was just like, oh my God, i get to watch part of the movie on this show sign me up and then these guys would talk and they would bicker and they would debate and it was glorious it was funny it was it was sometimes just like holy shit i can't believe he just said that

to this guy and he's still just sitting there but yeah it was just part of my childhood and i love these two men yeah well i i got brought to it by my dad who was watching it when it was just part of my childhood. And I love these two men. Yeah. Well, I got brought to it by my dad who was watching it when it was still on PBS. And no way that early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like a family thing. Like we'd put it on the same way you put on like the news, like, oh, it's time for sneak previews.

And we'd watch the movie show, you know. And so I had it fully ingrained in my mind. And then when they went to syndication, so I was seeking it out wherever it was. Cause that was like already my show. Like I, it was a show I watched with my family and there was a great period of time where it was on after wrestling on the, on Saturday afternoon. Like I would watch wrestling and then Siskel and Ebert. I remember that vividly, but yeah, it couldn't have shaped my life more. Roger Ebert still continues to be a kind of lodestone for me, like someone who I consider a spiritual and mental guidepost for like how I should live my life. He's really one of the last great humanists, I believe. them mean a lot to me they both have meaning to me individually obviously roger moore because he lived longer and he as work output went on for a longer period of time but uh yeah i'm right there with you very important show for me so i devoured this book when i got it and i definitely wanted

to talk to matt singer who is as much a fan as we are and uh but actually wound up going on and doing something with his life related to Siskel and Ebert, related to reviewing movies. So this is Matt Singer, who, like I said, just wrote the book Opposable Thumbs. Get it wherever you get books. If you're a Siskel and Ebert fan, I guarantee you're going to like it. If you're not a Siskel and Ebert fan, I guarantee you're going to learn from it. And I hope you learn something right now as Chris and I talk to Matt Singer. We've crossed paths with you before, but I'm not sure that you have any idea that we did because it was digital and conceivably anonymous, but we knew that you were there

and it was part of Nighthawk movie trivia, which we do regularly. And so there was one night where we were, I think you might've mentioned of it like on your Twitter or something. And we're like, oh, oh, Matt Singer, we're up against him tonight. And you always like crushed us.

In person or? No, it was pandemic time yeah right right right yeah i haven't i i went once in person recently but yeah no yes did you have a regular team name or did you change yours so that we were fairly regularly for for the initial days like initial weeks of the quarantine we were quarantine wolf too oh yeah yeah yeah i remember awesome like i was doing that with all my friends from grad school basically all my movie nerd friends yeah so that yeah i used to love doing it um it was one of the few enjoyable things one could do at that time exactly it's like a salvation it we we like looked forward to it was like our one night out even though it was in yeah exactly yeah exactly exactly and it gave me an excuse to hang out with you know most of those those people don't live in

new york anymore so it was like the most i had talked to those people for years so well i'm i'm not surprised that we uh found ourselves in that similar circle um not just because we we know similar people we have you know common friends and we have common interests. But like, obviously, I think we're all from like the same age cohort. And, you know, you have written this book that where I'd have any talent as a writer, it probably would have been the first thing I would have tried to write to was a book about Siskel and Ebert. And in fact, when I started reading it, I sent Chris a text. It was maybe about 10 pages in. And I just said,

I'm going to cry reading this fucking book. I love these guys with all my heart. And sure enough, we both cried. Spoiler alert. Did I do it? Oh, of course. I mean,

I would be very disappointed if you didn't. And it'd be hard pressed not to cry about any retelling of the final days of Gene and Roger. But what I was also thinking about when I sent that to Chris was like, why? Like, why? Why? And why?

Like, we're in our 40s now. I constantly re-watch these clips, re-watch entire shows of Siskel and Ebert. I reread Rod. Chris and I were just talking about this like two weeks ago. We're talking about how, you know, we watched a bunch of Arnold movies. And then when we read all the Roger reviews of these movies, and it was so fulfilling, right? And I seek out things like your book, like The Ringer did a podcast on Gene and Roger and obviously read and seen life itself. And so, like, I come up with this question, why do I love these guys so much? And I guess the first thing to ask you is, did you already have a solid answer to that? Or is part of writing the book you trying to answer that question, too?

Well, first of all, I just we got to, I want to hear about the Arnold movies. Can we put a pin in that for later? I want to know, because you're talking to, you're talking to maybe the only, I sometimes call myself a Schwarzeneggerologist, perhaps the only one on earth. And, you know, if I could write a book about that, I probably would. So we got to talk about that at some point, not to not answer your question. The second way I'm going to avoid answering your question You know, if I could write a book about that, I probably would. So we got to talk about that at some point. Not to not answer your question. The second way I'm going to avoid answering your question is just to say my wife. The only person who read this book while I was working on it is my wife. And I would give her chapters and say, how is this?

How is this? And she is not a movie nerd. You know, she likes movies, but she's not pathetic like I and perhaps you guys are. And when I gave her that part like i walked in and she was like when she finished it she was like crying and she's like you son of a like how could you make me read this it's really upsetting are you talking specifically about the chapter of of gene's death or yeah the stuff about about about gene and um you know i i got to do the audiobook myself for for the book which I wanted to do and was super fun for the most part.

But then reading that part, yeah, it can get a little heavy. In terms of your actual question of why I like these guys, yeah, I did think a lot about that. Because the show hit me at an age where I never never I was too young to intellectualize the why. Because I'm talking I'm 12, I'm 13. And most of the stuff I'm I'm liking is not two dudes, two middle aged, you know, dudes in blazers and sweaters sitting in a movie theater talking about movies. And I was at that time, I was not the biggest movie nerd. You know, I went to movies. I watched what was playing.

I grew up in suburban New Jersey. So it's like, you know, if something I was playing, a dumb comedy was playing at the Freehold Metroplex or Movie City 5, you know, I would ask, you know, like, Weird Al Yankovic has a movie, Mom. Can you please take me to see UHF? You know, Spaceballs. You know, I liked Spaceballs more than Star Wars, frankly, when I was a kid. I'm going to be honest. I think a lot of people don't want to admit that, but I definitely did.

And really, until I discovered Siskel and Ebert, that was the kind of movies that I was into. And it really was this show that was like the lightning bulb of like, oh, there are more movies out there than dumb, silly comedies, which I still love, don't get me wrong. And the why is an internal question. I don't know. I think I do wonder to some extent now whether it was in some ways because I was joking about the sweater vests and the blazers. And the fact that, frankly, let's be honest, these were not the coolest dudes in the universe. But I think in some way that appealed to me because even at that age, I knew I was not cool. I was not going to be the star football player. I was not going to be a movie star. I think I understood that innately, even at that age. And I think there

was something appealing about the ordinariness of these guys, at least the way they presented themselves on TV. They were amazing talkers and they were great TV presences, but there was something attainable about what they were doing. They were watching movies and they were talking about them. And I think that really grabbed me and hooked me at that young age. I kind of have the same feeling you did about, you know, they don't seem cool. But then when you got into them, to me anyway, they were like these were like if I were you've met Roger Ebert later in his life. If I ever had been in that guy him. I wouldn't have been able to say anything. I was paralyzed with fear to ever send anything to the movie Answer Man page. I was always afraid of that, you know? Yeah, no, I did that. I got in twice, I think, to the movie Answer Man. Oh, really? You know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can find them. I think if you, I mean, now it

might be tougher, but I think, I mean, I'm, I don't know if I was ever in one – I mean, first of all, I had the Questions for the Movie Answer Man book. That was one of my favorite Roger Ebert books as a kid. Yes, I did write in several times and I believe – definitely once, maybe twice I got a question answered. And I think they may have been reprinted in like – you know, like he always put out the movie yearbook every year. Right, and he'd have a few questions in it. And they would he would he would compile some of those movie Answer Man columns in there. And I believe one of them might have been one of those books somewhere, maybe in my parents house somewhere. I think I have that that book.

But that was very thrilling for sure. But I would have been completely envious of you if I knew that. I will say this. for sure. But I would have been completely envious of you if I knew that. I will say this. You mentioned, you know, that I did meet him and I did get to work with him when I was when he was older and I was, you know, sort of starting out and stuff. But I had met him before that. Oh, I had met him at a at a book signing in like 2005. And you talk about not being able to uh you think you would not be able to speak i that was me it was and i can remember he did a book signing for the great movies too another one of his books here in new york it was at the it doesn't exist anymore was the barnes and

noble by lincoln center oh yeah he did a talk he did he did a talk and then you got your book signed and i remember waiting and going on the line and uh being like it was the full chris farley show moment you know you know you remember when you did this good hebert i like that show a lot and i i really wanted to be a folk critic and i say and i just remember i feel like the response i got was something you know he's very smiley and friendly and nodding and saying something along the lines of, well, good luck to you, you know, something like that. But it really was that sort of vibe. When I met him again professionally, it did go a little better than that, thankfully.

But yes, I can completely relate to that feeling of, of uh absolutely they were they were inspirational figures um in my life i don't know if i ever thought if i could be them i could be cool because i i i i mean you know this was not the show for me that i would talk like you know sure when i was that age i also watched seinfeld and the simpsons and you would have friends that you would like quote those things with you know like did like the day after the new simpsons episode you know you'd be at lunchtime you'd be quoting did you remember that line you know that was a great part didn't do that with cisco and ebert i yeah this was i kind of kept this one close to my vest i wasn't really like going did you guys see the uh the review of independence day could you believe

that that was wild i don't you know that i did not do this was kind of like this is one of those things that was kind of kind of my secret you know what i mean and it's but what's great now is getting to talk to guys like you and writing the book it's like i'm realizing that this secret thing that i was obsessed with is something that a lot of people of our age share. Now, were you always consistently one guy over the other? Like, did you like were you like, you know, people are either like a John guy or a Paul guy? Were you a Roger guy?

Like, I mean, I can say just personally, there were different times in my life where I was a different one of them or like a related more to one over the other. Whereas now in my like, you know, I would say the last maybe 20 years of life, I think I've pretty consistently been a Roger guy. And that might owe more to his longer body of work as he lived on. But there were definitely points in my life where I was like, man, Gene's always right. Roger's always wrong. Like, did you have a similar thing? That's a good question. I, you know, I definitely what you're saying about, you know, being a Roger guy later is true. And it was certainly true for me because, you know, after being obsessed with the show and then, you know, buying some of those books, which you could get um then in the late 90s i go to go to college and that's you know the internet finally really hits and roger's reviews start going up weekly on chicago sun times.com or whatever the website was and now every friday i'm reading his reviews and unfortunately gene's already passed away by this point so that's really when i become like a mega the pathetic roger fan who goes to the book signing and is that guy.

Because I was, you know, now fanatically, you know, I had already been a fan of the show, but now is really becoming a fan of his, his writing. During the time when I was a kid watching the show, I, you know, I, I don't know that I necessarily had a favorite. I, I really, what I liked about it was that neither they felt like equals to me um they never felt like one was getting the better of the other it always felt to me like this epic struggle between these two titans you know what i mean and they never it wasn't like one ever said you got me there raj i i feel you you make a good point you never heard the phrase you make a good point on siskel and ebert even when both of them often did make good points they refused to concede that at any point anyone but them made a good point right in all the years

of the show i think there's one example of gene changing his mind on the air for a movie the john travolta action movie broken arrow you know he gave it like a very mild positive review roger rebuts and says yeah i think pretty much what you said is true except i don't think it's very good and you know this was even worse than you said and i didn't really care for this and gene goes like you know what i've never done this and he never had And he never would again. He's like, I'm going to twist the thumb down. You're right. What am I praising here?

It's not really that good. Thumbs down. It's so funny because reading it in the book, it was like somebody writing about the helmet catch in the Super Bowl. I was like, I remember when that happened. the helmet catch in the Superbowl. Like I was like, I remember when that happened. Like I,

I had like this vivid memory of the, the graphic of the thumb being turned downward on screen. Like, like sitting there with my dad watching it, like, Whoa, did you see what just happened? It was, it was like,

it was almost as if a Hulk Hogan had just picked up Andre the giant, honestly. And then of course, because Gene could not, because, I mean, theoretically, this is a victory for Roger and has never happened, and he could not let that stand. He tried in that moment. He was like, now, okay, now, do me a favor.

Admit that you were wrong about Cop and a Half, which was a movie that famously Roger had given thumbs up to and liked and he wouldn't do it roger was like no no no no no i i saw things and cop and a half the burt reynolds comedy cop and a half that other people didn't see so and so there you go yeah so yeah they they would they fought and argued but it was it was this neither one would budge you know what i mean and i think that's what i really loved about it is that they were so so dogged in their opinions and it it you never knew who you were going to agree with i guess to your point is that maybe sometimes you would be

like yeah i kind of feel gene is right or sometimes you might go yeah i think roger has a good point there not that they would ever admit that the other had a good point. But yeah, I think that's what I really responded to when I was watching it, was that they always felt like they were so evenly matched and neither one would give an inch to the other. That was part of the appeal. Well, we started this out by talking about this trivia league that we were playing in over the pandemic. And you were saying how you were teamed up with people you were friends with from grad school. And there was a line that jumped out at me in the book. It was specifically around you talking about the debate over what they were doing to

critical discourse, right? Specifically, the TV show and the famous Richard Corliss article likening them to a sitcom and saying it was degrading film discourse. And you have a very simple kind of rebuttal. I don't know if you intended to be a rebuttal, but it's like a one line rebuttal to all that. And it's like, this was people's first taste of film school. And that got as close, I think, as I'd ever gotten to the question of the why in there. It's like, this is the only non-real-life relationship I have with people, parasocial, whatever you want to call it, but the only relationship with people that I have not met flesh and blood that I feel the way I do about a kind of noble and life-changing teacher.

They did the hard work of educating me to a point where I could change my viewpoint on things or I could adjust the prism by which I was seeing the world in a way that helped, that I thought that the best teachers can do. If they say, just don't try to think about acing the test. Just listen. Listen to what I'm saying. And I have to imagine, you know, feeling that way and then going to grad school and being a film scholar and now a person who makes his living writing about film and enjoying

film, you have to even more explicitly than I do draw the line to them in that way of almost being, you know, an entry point into the, you know, discovery of film as an intellectual pursuit. Oh, 100%. I totally thought of them later in life. And, you know, now think of them as, yeah, I'm like my first film teachers, you know, not that they certainly didn't know it at the time. But yeah, I mean, when you're, you know, when you're young, it's so easy to be like a gatekeeper and pushing people out of things. And they were the gateway, not the gatekeepers. You know, I think they had this way of making films that could be very inaccessible, especially to like a 13-year-old who doesn't know anything feel very accessible. They made you want to go out and see these movies and they never made you feel like,

because you hadn't seen something by Fellini or Kurosawa or Renoir, whoever it was that you were, you were somehow lesser than they might think you're missing out and encourage you to go check it out. But they, they made you want to do that. They made you want to learn more. They made these very potentially obtuse things

seem within your grasp. And, you know, I think they both were good at doing this, but Roger, especially as a writer is something I always, especially later when I got into his writing, it's sort of the thing that I'm always trying. I don't know how often I succeed, but always trying to capture is the way that he could write about these movies in a way that made them feel so accessible. And he was, that was really one of his great gifts as a writer was he was so good at that. One of my favorite chapters, I think is chapter five, where you basically chronicle Gene and Roger making the rounds of various late-night talk shows. I knew of them on Letterman, but I actually never knew the story of them being on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show. And the behind-the-scenes story of what happened there is honestly probably my favorite story in your entire book.

But, you know, I know from the book that you used to stay up and watch Siskel and Ebert, the show, once your family fell asleep when you were a kid. But did you ever watch or even know about them doing these late night shows? Or is that something that was revealed later on in your life? No, I definitely were watching because around this age was also when I discovered, yeah, like late night TV. Letterman was always my favorite and Conan they did Conan too although I think their most memorable appearances are more like Letterman and uh uh Carson but I was a huge uh Conan O'Brien fan growing up um and which is you know that's right around that same time that early 90s period is where I would you know stay up and watch

uh Letterman and then and then Conan but um yeah yeah, I would I would say that it all kind of coincided. And I would always get excited when they were on those shows. Establishing them beyond the boundaries of the community of dweebs like me who are watching the show because it was it was bringing them to a more mainstream, a broader audience. It was it was having them sit next to the people that they were reviewing these these movies of, you know, and kind of putting them on equal star footing in a way. equal star footing in a way because, you know, Chevy Chase would come out and promote three amigos and then Cisco and Ebert would come out and they would bash three amigos while Chevy Chase is still sitting there. And I think that was a huge boon to them and to the show because, you know, that talk show world,

while it can be very entertaining and amusing, there's a certain amount of like phoniness or like just smiliness that's baked into that world where everyone is happy. Everyone's cracking jokes, having a good time. Isn't it fun to be here? And isn't the movie I just made the best movie ever made? Let's show the clip. And it looks great.

And it's coming out on Friday. Thanks for coming, Chevy. That kind of atmosphere. And then they would come out next and be like, actually, Three Amigos is not a good movie. You should not go see it. Sorry, Chevy. You've made good movies before. You'll make good movies again. But this one isn't one of them. And they were one of the few people who would do that on these shows. They were honest. They cut through the BS. They told it like it was. And it reinforced that idea that I certainly believed then and now that whenever you heard their opinion, they were going to tell you what they thought.

And they weren't going to say anything because they wanted to make a star happy or a studio happy or a publicist asked them to be nice. They didn't care what anyone thought. They were going to give you their opinion. And if that meant saying it to the face of the star, you know, I think Gene especially kind of relished that. He he was a he could be a confrontational guy at times, and he didn't mind saying to someone's face, you know, your new movie isn't so great. Why aren't you making movies as good as you used to make? Yeah, it seemed almost pathological for him that he could not say something that was dishonest, or he couldn't, you know, be diplomatic. He had to say exactly what he felt, whether that was to a movie star or to his boss or anybody. You point out at one

point in the book that Roger says, like, yeah, Gene doesn't care if people like him or not, I think to his detriment. Right, right. And, you know, that is a, now, again, in some situations, maybe that's not a good thing. For a film critic, that's one of the best qualities you can have. Exactly. Because, and I say this from experience, you know, people, you want people to like you. That's like a natural thing for most people is you don't, you know, you're not, you know, you want to have your opinion, but you're also, I mean, you're not necessarily looking to make people angry or dislike you and he didn't care and he you know and it didn't matter who it was it could be his favorite director if he thought martin scorsese made a bad movie he would say that they gave two thumbs down to the color of money which i think is a great movie but they were

unimpressed and they didn't like it even even though they thought, you know, they later gave Raging Bull, you know, they call that the best movie of the 80s and they loved Goodfellas and so many other Scorsese movies. I think I think Gene didn't like Casino. He didn't. He gave that. You're right. He gave thumbs up. Another amazing movie. Yeah. But but I think that speaks to the fact that he didn't he didn't grade on a curve. You know, if it didn't matter that he loved Scorsese and maybe he socialized with him or they wrote a book that the proceeds went to Scorsese's Film Foundation,

the only book that they ever wrote together, in fact. But if Scorsese's new movie is a stinker, according to him, he's going to say that. And I think that that was, it was great to do that as a film critic. It was great for the show. And again, it was amazing to see on talk shows because again, talk shows, like I said, I was a huge Conan fan and Letterman fan. Those shows were great. But what they brought to those shows that they didn't always otherwise have was drama and tension. People are there to have fun

and smile and be happy. And when they showed up, you didn't know what was going to happen. Maybe they were going to insult someone to their face. Maybe they were going to piss someone off. And just that little bit of suspense and edge gave a little zing to those shows when they were on them. Well, and you also did answer something I've always wondered because I have saved in my my photo stream a picture of uh roger and gene doing the double thumbs up with hulk hogan right between them and i've always wondered where did this come from like they definitely hate hulk hogan movies like this wasn't like on a junket or something and there's a brief mention in the book that they were at the NatP convention, the television syndication convention, and WWF was there putting on matches. So I have to believe that was the meeting of Hulk Hogan

and Siskel and Ebert. 100%. And I don't, I'd have to look in my notes, but somewhere I found a video, like a news report from NatP, this,P, this syndication convention, which I think actually just within this year was maybe canceled permanently, possibly. Oh, wow. But until a few years ago, when cable syndication was big, this was like, yeah, the big industry event. Anyone who syndicated a TV show or wanted to you show up here you sell your wares like a trade show and for siskel and ebert this was a huge thing and they would go and they would promote the show and yes uh uh the wwf because their product then was all syndicated saturday morning syndicated tv they would set up a ring and i found a clip of them like like doing like wrestling matches at one of these conventions.

And the audience of like 12 guys in suits is a little bewildered. I can't remember any of the wrestlers that were in the clip, but for sure, I guarantee you that is where that picture you're talking about of Hulk and Siskel and Ebert, which I think I have seen. And it's definitely a weird, for me too, like a moment of my childhood icons, like merging and meeting in this very strange and surreal way. Spider-Man could have wandered through the background. It would have been like, you know, if someone had taken my brain and put it in a blender

and poured it out onto a picture, it could have been like the ultimate like, here's your personality in one picture. Enjoy. Yeah. I posted every New Year's like as a be good to each other message. Yes. That's my visual representation. The spirit of the holidays. Yes.

If they could get along and with that man appearing in no holds barred and mr nanny and suburban commando there's hope for all of us isn't there all right well listen before we lose you let's let's wrap up with this arnold thing because you know we had arnold on wtf uh last week and before that to lead up to it chris and i were talking about uh our favorite arnold movies and we did our favorite five and so to put you on the spot as the like arnold schwarzenegger colleges uh that you are just give us your your top line what what's the best arnold movie that's a that's an impossible to answer question and you know that oh is there's so many good ones and they're good there are but

i will say it came pretty easy to me to get my best. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I said Total Recall was was my best. That's a great movie. I mean, that's definitely in the conversation. I mean, to me, that's up there. The Terminator Terminator two is up there. But what I love about Schwarzenegger and that it was an awesome podcast and I have gotten to interview him now a few times. uh and i have gotten to interview him now a few times and it's uh that's another one where you're fighting back the uh for me anyway the whole the chris farley urge of you know you made that was a good movie and like in that case i'm like actually interviewing him about about predator uh that was maybe chris's number one by the way fabulous. Fabulous movie. But yeah, I mean, to me, what's so interesting about Arnold is that, you know, and I've written

pathetically at length about this, is that to me, Arnold is like an unappreciated auteur of his movies. I think now he gets his due as an action star who made very entertaining movies. I think at this point, that's pretty much agreed on. And we all love Terminator 2 and we love Predator and Commando and all those movies. But what I love is that you watch his movies and you see this guy talking about his life in these ways that maybe people didn't really notice at the time. You look at how many movies are about husbands who are screwing up their marriages or that are feeling guilty about having failed their wives or their children, especially in that later period, right after things are happening in his personal life that might reflect that. Almost every movie he made after that like period is about that in some way and and and and maybe they're the quote-unquote bad movies you know like batman

and robin is about a dad a husband who's trying to help his wife and has failed repeatedly and now he's this cold icy figure no pun intended except i've definitely intended it there were lots of puns exactly exactly every pun was intended or or end of days he's a husband who's lost his family and he's like grappling with the guilt around that or collateral damage where he's a guy whose family has been killed by a terrorist and he's seeking revenge or maggie which is about a guy who is debating how to deal with his daughter and feels guilty about it. And I could go on and I have gone on. I mean, if you Google my name and Arnold Schwarzenegger, you will find the pieces I've written about this.

So, yeah, I mean, like, yeah, if I had to pick one movie, I probably would pick Terminator two or maybe Total Recall. But I just think that, you know, and Stallone is kind of this way, too. And I've written about that as well. You know, we talk about auteurs. To me, they're like the actors. You know, these are the guys who had so much power. They were the ones in, you know, picking the scripts. And they were the ones often picking the directors and, you know, producing their movies or at least had the, you know, the juice to what they decided was going with these movies.

So these aren't like coincidences. You know what I mean? Right. So that's what I love about Arnold is that if you know his biography, that makes his movies even more interesting. Total Recall is a good example, too. I mean, Last Action Hero is another good example. True Lies. I mean, if that's not a movie about secrets in a marriage, then there's never been a movie made about secrets in a marriage ever. So that's the stuff that I really, really love about Arnold.

Well, I do hope that people who, well, obviously people who are fans of Siskel and Ebert and have kind of loved movies and loved the way movies have been reviewed since Siskel and Ebert was a show are going to find, you know, innumerable things about your book to enjoy. But I really do hope people who like are younger than that era or maybe just, you know, didn't pay it much mind. I really hope they get a hold of your book. maybe just, you know, didn't pay it much mind. I really hope they get a hold of your book. And I think it will open their eyes to something and, you know, it becomes the gateway in itself. Like, I'm envious of someone who gets to come to Siskel and Ebert with fresh eyes and kind of start on their own path with them. So, you know, on that level, I think the book would be a tremendous success just for newbies as well. But obviously, for someone like me, someone like Chris, and obviously someone like yourself, Matt, this is right in the wheelhouse.

Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you so much for doing this with us. Thank you. No, it was a pleasure. It was nice to talk about Siskel and Ebert with some fans, wrestling fans. I feel like we probably could just keep talking. I have this feeling. We speak the same language. It's very clear here.

In many ways. It's like a duolingo of a very certain type of media consumer. Yes. All right. Well, next time we're facing each other in trivia, we won't take it easy on you. There was something that came up a few weeks ago. Chris was asking me, I believe you were asking me about,

did I ever have any impulses to be a comedian or get into comedy? And I went through my whole rigmarole with that, my whole shtick. And you said, no no you never had that not not even anything close but that uh you did have the desire to once just once tell a story that you say is your your like your one story that was how you categorized it this is my one story i have one story and you said i would like to tell it on The Moth or This American Life. Yes. Meanwhile, you're on a show right now. You have a show that you have access to every week.

And you can do this story at any time. But I would not let you. I said it had to be built up. Right? So we ended last week's show with a little bit of a cliffhanger and said that we will do this story and right here i'm not going to make anybody wait any longer the anticipation is killing everyone and so we're just going to go right into it this is your stage chris lapresto the story your one story and now the floor is yours. What is the story you have to tell?

My story is about being banned for life from a grocery store. So I met a girl, now my wife, and at the time she was a member of the Park Slope Food Co-op. Ever heard of it? I have heard of it. Yeah, this is a member-only grocery store in Park Slope, Brooklyn. It's legendary in its strife that is caused by the members of the Park Slope Food Co-op. Yes. Infamous, I would say. So to be a member of this food co-op, you have to agree to work once every six weeks. Now, my wife at the time, she cuts cheese in the basement, which sounds hilarious.

It also seemed to be a genuinely fun gig to have like a big- Wait, wait, wait. That's her thing? Yes. Like her one job there, every week she has to go, it was always the same, cut cheese in the basement? Always cutting cheese in the basement? Always cutting cheese in the basement every six

weeks, yes. And what does that entail? It entails getting the cheeses from various regions of the world and cutting them in an appropriate amount of weight so that you can then bag it and then put a little

scanner on it so that people can buy it for and then put a little scanner on it so that people can buy it for X amount of dollars. Okay, okay. Yeah. Now I'm up to speed on this cheese cutting. So once we moved in together, she told me that I should join the food co-op because it would be considered stealing

if I'm benefiting from her grocery runs to this exclusive grocery store. And let me tell you, I was not into it. I begrudgingly accepted. I am, you know, just someone who wants to make someone else happy. So I figured I'd do something interesting like cutting cheese or working the register or something, right? So I filled out my application, got assigned a job and a day and a time.

Well, I was assigned custodian at 7 p.m. on Mondays. Did they look at you first when they, was it totally visually judgmental? They looked at you, they're like, you look like you need to have a giant ring of keys. A mop. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was blind. I mean, I did ask, like, is there anything?

Like, nah, this is all we got. It's like, okay. So my job was to empty wastebaskets, clean the bathrooms, break down tables and stack chairs, mop the floors, all kinds of great stuff. Not exactly what I had in mind. And this is so you could get like some fig spread or something, right? This is so I can actually go and shop and give this place money so I can get food. Like this is, I mean, I could go to Key Food right down the street, but no, this food is better. Apparently I digress. Uh, so for two whole years, every six weeks, I had to stop what I was doing and go to the food co-op and be a janitor for a night.

Every shift, there was a checklist of things to do. There would be like a few of us each shift. was a checklist of things to do. There would be like a few of us each shift. We would split the chores and divide and conquer. As time went on, I actually became like a crew manager. I was like the manager. I would tell people, okay, do this, do that. I'll do this. And we'll, you know, that, you know, that's what we'll do. So I would listen to podcasts and empty the trash can and clean the toilets. I would actually have to clean the toilets at this place until every single item was checked off, right? So we had a checklist, checked everything off. And once everything was done, I would just leave. I would also tell my staff, like, hey, you know, get it done quick.

We can get out of here before the second half of Monday Night Football or Monday Night Raw, that sort of thing. Well, apparently, it's not just the items to do on the list that are important. It's the amount of time you spend at the grocery store. Because I would do all my tasks in about an hour and then leave. Apparently, this is frowned upon. Apparently, I'm supposed to do all these tasks in two hours and 45 minutes, no less. So I was expected to be a janitor and leisurely do these tasks starting at 7 p.m. and leave at 9.45. So one day I get a letter in the mail saying that I've been accused of time theft

and I will have a chance to bleed my case next week. First of all, I'm mortified because this is my wife's thing. I don't give a shit about this grocery store. And here I am just fucking it up and like embarrassing her to her peers, right? So I plot out what I'm gonna say. I write it down that I, you know, I legit

never missed a shift in two whole years, right? And I didn't understand that I was required to be there for that long. And, you know, just, you know, sort of just beg for forgiveness and like hope for just a warning, right? Well, I get to the co-op and I go to the admin office. Now, this is the same room that I used to go and dismantle tables and stack chairs, right? Well, I get to the co-op and I go to the admin office. Now, this is the same room that I used to go and dismantle tables and stack chairs, right? Well, now I see why these tables were set up. It was set up to be a trial. I was the defendant. I sat on one table. Across from me, on another table, were three people, the plaintiffs, and between us was another table with three judges. Across from the judges sat a fucking grocery store reporter.

I shit you not, a grocery store reporter. I felt like Joe Pesci walking into the basement room thinking he was about to get made in Goodfellas. Also, upon reflection, the scene is basically the same exact scene from Oppenheimer, the third hour of Oppenheimer, where he's on trial. It's that scene. Oh, so it's a total kangaroo court? Yes, a total kangaroo court, okay? So the plaintiffs hand out a thick packet of documents. I'm waving it right now. Oh my God. This thick packet of documents and the judges allow me a few minutes to look it over.

Now, Brendan, this document is about 50 pages. Yeah. 50 pages long. And in it are the list of my time theft occurrences and color screenshots of video they have of me entering and leaving the grocery store like i'm jason fucking bull i i i swear i'm look you you can say i know it's a i know it's a podcast. Look, there's fucking video surveillance. Yeah, yeah. You see these for Al-Qaeda. Like, these are from, like, Zero Dark Thirty. They show, like, look, I think Bin Laden was coming in and out of the compound here. Yes.

So they alleged that I tried to hide my identity by switching shirts or removing a hat. They're opening remarks by the plaintiff. And I'm asked if I have any open remarks. And I honestly felt like saying, again, just like Joe Pesci, except this time from my cousin Vinny, that yeah, everything they said was bullshit. However, I tried to stay professional, let them know that no ill intent was happening. Again, hoping for a slap on the wrist, right? They called witnesses to the stand. An administrative worker who saw me leave multiple times, and I knew this motherfucker

was clocking me because he was giving me just the evil eye, just like this bald, white bearded motherfucker. Anyway, he would say that, you know, he would see me every, every shift and I would leave before the, the amount of time. They also called the fucking video guy who was hired to, to look at the surveillance and, and, you know, mark and take pictures of the video of me actually. If you had only given to Calico Cut Pants, that guy would have been on your side. Because he gives. So when they asked me to testify, I threw myself on the mercy of the court.

And explained that I didn't know about the time stipulation. And explained that I wasn't hiding my identity. I simply got sweaty walking up and down stairs and cleaning toilets that I wanted to change. So there's a mountain of evidence at this point piling up against me. They called recess to talk amongst themselves. And by the way, these fucking judges, there was like a nice judge who was like, don't worry, it's going to be fine judges there was like a nice judge who was like don't worry it's gonna be fine and then like a serious judge who would just just be shaking his head uh the entire time and then just like another judge who was just kind of like fine like you know i don't know we'll see what happens five minutes later they call us back in and told me

that i was found guilty and banned for life from the Park Slope Co-op. Now, it's at this point that they told me that every member of my household was also banned for life from the grocery store. So I am now panicked. I am begging them to spare my wife as she has nothing to do with these crimes. Also, slap on the wrist, warning, nothing. They told me, oh, that's a great idea. We may think about doing warnings in the future, but because previously there were no warnings, you're banned for life from this place.

So they also told me that since we're living together, my wife and I, there's no way for them to reconsider. I then started to lie and say that we were on rocky ground and going to separate any day. Nope. Their decision is final. And that is how I got us banned for life from the Park Slope Co-op. Wow. That's my story. I mean, it's a great story because I have so many questions.

Shoot, what do you got? All right. So the first thing is, with all these witnesses, where were the motherfuckers from your staff who you also got to finish their work so quickly? So I didn't realize that this was going to be such a serious crime. Again, I thought it was going to be a slap on the wrist, like a warning. But I told them,

I was like, guys, I'm the crew manager. Like, you could ask anyone that works with me. They're like, well, we're not asking them. We're asking you. And I was just,

I was fucked, man. I was just completely fucked. But what did they say to the idea that you were like, but my whole thing was I thought I needed to was fucked, man. I was just completely fucked. But what did they say to the idea that you were like, but my whole thing was I thought I needed to get everything just done. They said no. In the contract that you signed, there's a two hour, 45 minute time allowance.

And did they ever say what you were supposed to do if you got done in 45 minutes? No, they said you're just supposed to do your job and be there for two hours and 45 minutes. Wow. Yeah, no way around it. You know whose story this matches up with perfectly? Who's that?

You are Larry David when he worked at SNL. Oh, really? Yes, when he was a writer at SNL. He tells this story that like he came in and you know it was like okay the show you know it's tuesday or whatever shows on saturday and uh here's some of the things we're working on he pitched things whatever and it's like tuesday he comes into work nobody's there whatever he doesn't give a shit he't like anybody. So he just sits down and he writes all his scripts. Right.

And then it's like midnight and he's going home. He's like waiting at the elevator. And one of the producers is like, where are you going? And he's like, home? I worked all day. I've been here like all day long. And they were like, oh, like oh you know but we do like an all-nighter on tuesday like this is uh this is how we've always done it and he's like yeah it

ain't how i'm gonna do it like and and he contends that that like basically got him like put on the outs with the the snl trust. Of course. Wow. Yeah. Looks good on you, though. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. So, yeah.

All right. The other thing I have to say, and this is going to come out a little harsh. Oh, boy. And so I hope you forgive me. I hope she forgives me. But this is to your lovely wife, Erin, who I'm very fond of. I was in your wedding party. Erin is a great, wonderful, lovely person lovely person bring it you can bring it she brought this on herself yes 100 all she had to do

was keep going to the grocery store she could have cut cheese in the basement for the rest of her life. Yes. One hundred percent, Brandon. I did not have to be there. What was she thinking? She knows who I am. Like, why would she think this is a good idea? Like, I don't. But also beyond that, it's like, not only was it not a good idea, you then went and did like an extra good job. The job you did was so good, you got both of you kicked out of this place.

Also, can I just say, this place sucks, okay? I actually went to this co-op. Like the third date I had with my wife, we went to like the park. We actually met up with her sister and her boyfriend at the time. Had a lovely time. We actually met up with her sister and her boyfriend at the time. Had a lovely time. We went to dinner. We came to the Park Slope Food Co-op. And can I tell you, I went in there as a visitor and I was just like, all right, well, this place is weird. I'm going to leave now. I'm going to leave all of you here. I'm just going to go home. So bye. And like her boyfriend at the time

was like, well, that's the last time we're seeing that guy. Cause this place is fucking nuts. Yeah. Well, uh, I mean a great story. I'm very glad you did it here. I think if you did it on this American life or the moth, those, uh, shows are listened to, I think by 97% of the membership of the Park Slope food co-op. That's right. And you would have probably hurt their listenership because there would have been a war would have been created

amongst the listeners of those shows who had been so angry that you did this. And then there would be another group that were going to like tear up their membership cards in solidarity. Which might've been part of my plan. I'll be honest with you. Honestly, no, i can't i

you're a better man than i because i would have left there and i would have been like i'm gonna spend every waking moment of my life figuring out how to shut this place down like i would like vengeance would be mine food inspectors yeah oh yeah. You are done. By the way, did I ever tell you that story? No, you never told me that. Amazing. I can't believe I never told you that story. No, I figured it was some like deep shame as you were starting the story out. But no, it's more like a comedy of errors.

Yes, it was. Yeah, it's my one story. I feel like I've told it a bunch. And I just, yeah, it's quite indicative of who I am and my wife, who's like a Girl Scout or Boy Scout. Yeah. Like, yeah. And she married just the worst person imaginable

to ruin her time at the grocery store. I hope you guys are enjoying Trader Joe's, where everyone can go without having to be a fucking janitor. Why do I have to be a janitor? Come on. Hey, Chris.

Brendan, last night there was a man in my house. I fought with this man. He had a mechanical arm. You find that man. Happy anniversary, buddy. Thank you, dude. Holy cow. It is 30 years since the glorious, glorious film, The Fugitive, entered our lives. Yeah.

And I did celebrate. I celebrated as though it was like a celebration of my own ilk, my own people. Totally. And how did you celebrate? Well, for one, I read that awesome Rolling Stone piece that was like an oral history of the fugitive, which was sent around on a text chain that we were on. Did you read that?

Oh, yeah, I gobbled that up. And I really just made it a meal because I didn't want it to go too fast. But man, I read it like over the course of a day. Yeah, same. I started it and then I stopped it because I wanted to watch The Fugitive. So I fired up Max and watched it and then I continued on and it was just delicious. Yeah, well, I mean, I've known a lot about the movie since it came out.

It's one of my favorite movies ever. And there was still so much in that piece that I never knew. There was insight about the making of the movie that was amazing. Tommy Lee Jones was participating in the interview, so it was great. He was saying exactly what was going through his mind with the thing. It was fantastic. It was just what I've always hoped about The Fugitive. For sure. I mean, I don't know. Let's tell people. We have a history with this movie, not just our own enjoyment of it. But I mean, I love the movie since it came out. I saw it in theaters. Oh, you did?

Oh, yeah. I saw it in theaters, and then I had it on VHS and watched it all the time. And then I think when I got to college, I met like-minded people who were also like, oh, that's one of your favorite movies. One of my favorite movies too. And, you know, we just put it on all the time. Just why I could possibly be the movie I've watched the most in my life. Yeah, for sure. For me, I watched it on HBO back in the day. I didn't go to the theaters to see it. It was on HBO.

Saw it there. Loved it. Bought it on VHS. My brother worked at Blockbuster Video, so I was able to buy it. And my brother had like an early version of the DVD. And it was one of those DVDs. I believe it had like a little folder or a little pocket. The plastic clip. Yeah, the plastic clip that was so stupid. He had it under it had like a little folder or a little pocket. The plastic clip.

Yeah, the plastic clip that was so stupid. Yeah, the plastic clip. And it was a cardboard box. Yes. This was one of the biggest blockbusters of all time. And it came out in this thing that was a cardboard box with a plastic flap. Yes. Which just instantly, I'm like, what is this?

If it gets wet, it's just ruined. Yes, right. But yeah, so I burned out the DVD. I used to put this movie on when I wanted to go to bed. Like, okay, it's bedtime. I'm going to put something on that I know. I just pop in The Fugitive and let that music and the score drift me off to sleep. Yeah, it's like a nice blanket.

It's a perfect thing to put on at bedtime i think yeah uh and and all your friends are there all your your u.s marshall's crew that you've come to know and love uh no it's the greatest i remember i saw it in the movie theater with my parents and we left buzzing like we were like as a family we were like that was so great there was so and we were like quoting dialogue to each other the whole time i i remember seeing my grandfather who was like you know a jaded old new york union man like but he went to the movies all the time and theater and everything and you know i remember seeing him say grandpa did you see any movies lately and he was like oh yeah i yeah, I saw that Fugitive. You got your money's worth with that one.

And I always remember that. Then I was like, yeah, that was the thing. You paid your money and every minute delivered of that movie. Yeah, absolutely. And then Rolling Stone oral history is great. First of all, it starts off with talking about all these Oscar-bait movies, like The Piano, Age of Innocence, and The Joy Luck Club. Guess what?

I still haven't seen any of those movies. But you know what I have seen is The Fugitive 50,000 times. Yes. Yeah, I mean, the other great thing in that Rolling Stone piece was about how big of a disaster they thought the movie was like while they were making it it had no script it was like the pages were being done in in real time and then they were improvving so much of the movie which it feels like like that's one of the great joys of the movie is that it's like has this like lived in feeling where you're like oh these people

all know each other tommy lee j Jones has this great insight about the character building at the time that he said, you know, he was hanging out with a deputy U.S. Marshal and he said the one thing he noticed was how much this dude loved his job. He like loved it. It was a joy to him to be a U.S. Marshal and he told all the guys and the woman

who were playing U.S. Marshals, hey, we just have to have fun. Like, that's what this guy, he has fun at his job and we got to do the same thing. And you feel it immediately. As soon as that crew shows up, you're like, oh, these people, A, know what they're doing. B, they're awesome. And C, can I join the U.S. Marshals? Totally.

Totally. Totally. Also, I love that Harrison Ford watches the movie Under Siege, a movie that was a guilty pleasure for me as a kid. Great movie. And I love that he sees Under Siege and is like, oh, yeah, the guy that directed this should be totally me making The Fugitive. And I just, I can't believe those two movies are connected that way i can't believe harrison ford watched under siege honestly i i can tell you this i have watched a double feature of under siege and then the fugitive and it makes total sense like they are compatible movies there are tons of people from the fugitive who are in under siege first of all like that guy that director clearly was like i liked working with that guy

put him in the fugitive and so you see fugitive people all over under siege it is one million percent tommy lee jones's movie despite the fact that stephen seagal is on the poster like these the people making Undersea 2, and somebody in that Rolling Stone piece says it. Like, yeah, we knew we had the worst actor in the world, so instead we just relied on Tommy Lee Jones for everything. Which is wonderful. Yeah, well, the other thing that is part of our shared history

with this movie is that we went to an epically failed screening of The Fugitive. We did. So let me tell this story, if you don't mind. So we go to what is billed as The Fugitive 35 millimeter screening at the Alamo Drafthouse in Brooklyn. So we meet up for drinks at their House of Wax bar.

And I mention it because I think it's going to become relevant, honestly, later on, that we had a couple of drinks in us. So it's time to go to the movie. We make with our drinks into the theater. The movie begins and it's humming along. Richard's on the bus going to prison. The bus tips over onto the train tracks. The train's coming.

The other prisoner says, the hell with you, doc. Richard pushes the injured guard to safety. Richard's about to jump off the bus. Very iconic scene coming up. All of a sudden, we cut to wreckage. Someone cut out of the 35 millimeter print the iconic bus jump scene. And the crowd is murmuring,

we personally shriek out like we just saw a dead body but the movie like somehow continues on like we're befuddled we're we're talking we're just like what the fuck but but fine we'll press on i'll tell you at the time i thought it was a accidental real skip you know like like how sometimes uh when you're when you're switching from real to real there's a little overlap. I thought because, okay, it's 35 millimeter, they're inexperienced here. They've skipped too soon. Right. And so we just, but they accidentally skipped at the most vital part. So, but, but I, you know, you're right. We were like freaked out

and then you're right. We just were like, okay, all right, we'll settle down. The rest of the movie's coming. Let's just watch the rest of the movie. It's still an hour and a half to go. Yeah, that's right. So, we get to the scene where Tommy Lee Jones calls for a hard target search and as he's about to say the famous monologue, the scene cuts to the next day, the tow truck

driver getting out of his truck and we all freak the fuck out. At this point, the movie stops and someone from the the fuck out. At this point, the movie stops and someone from the theater apologizes. Apparently the print had been altered to which I yell out, and by the way,

we're in the back of the theater, right? We're at the very last row. Very last row, far corner. I'm yelling top of my lungs, you switched the samples. And as if I'm Richard Kimball at the end of the lungs, you switch the samples. And as if I'm Richard Kimball at the end of the movie, the guy looks over to me, confused,

to which I say again, you switch the samples. And as I was like, he picks up what I'm saying and then just continues on addressing the rest of the theater. And then you say, did you kill Lens 2? As loud as you can. This person is now rattled.

All right. As if we're accusing this person of murder. We're somehow the only people yelling in the theater. I didn't really ever register or understand why no one else was. Exactly. Why wasn't everyone yelling? Make your own movie up at that point. Yeah.

So they offer everyone free movie tickets, free food, I think, and hope that the rest of the movie is intact. Well, it's not. Every famous scene from The Fugitive is cut out. We're watching the low lights version of The Fugitive. I didn't kill my wife. I don't care. Cut. The jump from the fugitive. I didn't kill my wife, I don't care. Cut. The jump from the dam? Gone. Tommy Lee Jones shooting at Kimball on St. Patrick's

Day? Vanished. We heckled the shit out of this movie the entire time. The ending was void of any the entire roof sequence. Gone from the movie. After the movie, and after the booing of the movie, and after the booing

of the screen, the lights come up, and again, the guy apologizes and says, hey, we can't leave until we see the bus crash sequence. Right? So, they pulled a digital copy and queued it up, and first of all... Like a Blu-ray in the projector booth.

They bought it from iTunes, and then just showed it. Yeah, I think they literally said, we're going to pop in the Blu-ray. exactly the projector yeah or they bought it up from itunes and then just showed it yeah i think they literally said we're gonna pop in the blu-ray yeah so so first of all the the screen shows up and it's much louder than the shitty 35 millimeter we were just sitting and it looked immaculate it looked so good incredibly rich and so we're screaming why didn't you just play this the entire time? We had to sit through this garbage. And just as a coda for this start, all this happened with the two of us. And one of my brand new coworkers that I had recently met for the first time told him that, you know, I had an extra ticket to this screening.

He was in town from like Mississippi or something like that. He was very polite and quiet. And here we are, these two New Yorkers yelling at the screen. Yes. Accusing them of switching samples and killing Leds. Needless to say, we gave that guy a very good story to go home with. Also, never saw that guy ever again in my entire life. Are you serious? Yes. I have never saw that guy ever again in my entire life. Are you serious?

Yes. I have never seen that man before in my life. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's even better. So this guy just showed up. You invite him to the lowlights version of The Fugitive and then never see or hear from him again. And then never see or hear from him again.

It's like Homer going to New York City and just being behind the trash, you know, the garbage truck on the way home. He just never doing this again. Never go in there. That place is fucked up. Now I want to go to Mississippi just to see if this story has made it through the wild, like in lore. Yes. Don't fuck with New Yorkers in The Fugitive, apparently. They get mad.

And then I wound up having a second failed screening experience of The Fugitive. How is this possible? Again, a 35 millimeter print. It wasn't as egregious as this situation because it wasn't that someone vandalized the print. It was that the projector kept dying. And I don't know if that's because they, you know, you got to use something different for film than you use

for a digital projection, right? And these things get old and then they don't, you know, change the bulbs or whatever. And this thing just kept failing. Like it would, you'd be watching it and then all of a sudden and then the light would go out and then the theater lights would come up and it did it like three times.

And this was a gift from my son for Christmas. He said, dad, I want to take you to your favorite movie. And so he took me to the fugitive and we sat there and uh had that happen three times and then i turned to him and i said it's okay we can go home and watch it it's on hbo that is still pretty furious so sad what a sad story that is your son's christmas gift to you the thing that you love to do the most go to to the movies, watch this movie, and it was

ruined by a 35mm projector. It does bring us to Dr. Nichols, who we should talk about for a second. First of all, the fact that this Dutch guy, who's a great actor, I love this guy, of course he would have gotten selected, because

if you look at his IMDB, he was just always popping up in the late 80s, early 90s. And so they had an actor who then had a fatal brain tumor, and he had to leave the set after he'd already shot a bunch of scenes. But they go and they get this guy, Jeroen Krabbe, I think is how he says his name, although I'm not entirely sure. I just call him Dr. Nichols whenever I see him. We also, I used to call him, even before he was known as Dr. Nichols, when he would pop up in things,

I would call him the model because he reminded me of Rick the Model Martel. So I would see him in movies. He'd be like, oh, look, it's the model. But yeah, so Dr. Nichols is, this guy jumps into the role he's great he you know he plays the part great he's slimy enough and uh but but you know and insincere enough but the thing that i can never get over about dr nichols what's that this guy is a sick fuck. He is a sicker fuck than Hannibal Lecter,

than Leatherface. And you know why? Why? Because if you go watch that scene when Tommy Lee Jones and Joey Pants come to interrogate him, Dr. Nichols is sitting there and on the desk behind him

is a picture of him and Dr. Richard Kimball taking the night when Dr. Nichols arranged to have Richard Kimball's wife killed and Richard Kimball framed for murder. So he knows he did that. He is pretending that he didn't. And meanwhile, every day he goes into his office

and he looks at that picture and he's like yeah i know i fucking did right there 100 was the orb that crusher skull not available like just unbelievable well it's also i think basically too he was probably planning to have richard killed right like that's like that's he didn't't know that Richard was going to get a phone call and go back to the place. So they thought they were going to kill Richard just like he was going to kill Lentz. Instead, the wife is brutally murdered

and Richard is going to be put to death. That's like, and his entire legacy is that he's a wife killer now, right? Not a vascular surgeon. The actual thing that Dr. Nichols planned to do to kill these two doctors, now it's way worse. Like it was a much more horrible thing that happened. And he's still like, you know what I'd like? I'd like to be reminded that I did that shit every single day when I go to my office.

I'm going to sit at my swivel desk and I'm just going to look at that picture. I ruined a guy's life and just murdered a woman. I mean, that is... And now he's going to be put to death. Yes. Like, he's on death row. That guy is a psychopath.

Yes, you're totally right. He has a picture, a framed picture of that night. Oh, chilling, honestly. Really chilling stuff. Okay, so on to the best thing we saw in wrestling this week. And now, you should know something about me and Chris doing this show. We don't talk about this ahead of time.

Like, we want to kind of surprise each other with what our best thing in wrestling is. And we really don't, like, talk about, like, what we're going to do on the show other than topic-wise. Hey, we'll talk about the Fugitive a little bit. We'll talk about the Montreal Screwjob. Okay, got it. Like, we don't want to burn our ideas talking to each other. And this week, we both said,

oh, we've got to talk about this one thing. And I said, well, yeah, I'm going to talk about it. But here's the thing. It's my best thing in wrestling this week. Shirt brother. I believe, Chris, your response was that I was your shirt brother and that you had it as your best thing in wrestling this week, too. Which is important for us to note,

because it's not actually something that was produced by any wrestling company no but the best thing in wrestling that i saw this past week was the alabama waterfront brawl and if you don't know what i'm talking about just google those three words uh it also means you have not been on social media for a week and god bless you but uh the the reality is this was basically wrestling at its core at its most fundamental the alabama waterfront brawl was professional wrestling uh and i'm interested for you chris why it to you was your best thing in wrestling you saw this week oh my god well first of all the version that i saw initially of the brawl had a shit ton of wrestling commentary and music there was there was someone uh doing commentary i i want to say his name i i don't it's like uh

uh mike or mick tyson so i watched his commentary and there were nation domination references, survivor and Royal rumble, rep callouts, alternate warrior and stone cold Steve Austin music. The person doing commentary, you are just fantastic. I need you to do commentary on more stuff. I'm following them on,

on, on Twitter. Now I, following them on Twitter now. I love him. He is just fantastic. But what it is is just a bunch of white people on a dock in Alabama, and they're jumping a black person. And then heroic black people who jumped and swam to save this person. And it's quite literally as good as the fugitive train scene. And it is most definitely the best thing I saw this week.

Well, here's the thing, all that, everything you said is true. And I also did wind up seeing that same thing, a guy named Corey who did the commentary over this and it is hilarious. And he definitely made a lot of allusions to wrestling, but I think it's more than he definitely made a lot of allusions to wrestling but i i think it's

more than those surface level connections with wrestling sure i think it explains wrestling tell me here's why because okay the reality of what happened in this here let me let me let me start it by saying this the first thing i saw about this waterfront brawl was somebody clipped out a video. And it was like the part where everyone is brawling right in front of the big boat, the river boat. And it just looks terrible, like a terrible brawl. And every now and then you see this kind of stuff on social media where people are like luxuriating and terrible violence. And I fucking hate it like the worst of humanity getting summed up and like you know then then it gets put on fox news and it's like i i had no

patience for this scrolling past right what just looked like a terrible brawl to me and i i want to know part of it then i saw somebody put up a video that was just the first five minutes before any punch was thrown and you see everything that happens with these boats and what happened was this riverboat was trying to dock it could not for like multiple minutes it was trying to dock exactly and this crew member on the riverboat takes a small vessel to the dock and is trying. Apparently, they had told these white people that were in these pontoons that they had to move the boats and the white people were just ignoring them. Now they're drunk. They look all sunburnt.

They've been out for the day on the water. Like these are these are people who are not going to be agreeable. Forget about the racial dynamics in Alabama. They were not going to be agreeable. Forget about the racial dynamics in Alabama. They were not going to be agreeable probably to anyone. But then this black crew member goes over there and he's trying to move the boat himself. And that is apparently what starts the ruckus. And you're watching this guy and he's like defending himself. But he's clearly just pointing to the boats, telling them to move them.

Never once do you watch this guy posture in any way that he's threatening to these people. Like he is 1 million percent in the right. Just trying to do his job. Just trying to do his job. That's right. You know, just trying to do his job. So if you're watching this, I don't care what color you are, unless you're a stone cold racist.

You're like, well, this guy's right. And these people are already wrong. Yes. Right. Before a single punch is thrown. Then some fucking dude runs from the pontoon and sucker punches this guy, this crew member. And then multiple other dudes who were with that guy come and jump the crew guy as well to the point where you can count heads it's six on one whether they're all six throwing punches

at the guy or not it's six on one and at that point you start to see a black dude come down the ramp you start to see the guy jump in the water and swim after him and somehow it gets evened up there are at least six black dudes suddenly on that pier and i thought to myself this is what war games is like the whole premise of war games is that the baby faces are at a disadvantage until the time interval ends. And then when they have the evened odds, the baby faces can win. And that is wrestling in a nutshell. Because the whole idea is like people have been watching fights since the moment you could clench a fist. Right? The whole idea is like people have been watching fights since the moment you could clench a fist. Right.

Since the moment evolution occurred where you could make a fist and punch a person. Everyone wanted to watch that. Right. And that's a human impulse. It's not going to go away. And one of the things that happened was like combat sports were invented because people like to watch that. Right. Goes back to primitive cultures.

They were doing that. And then in modern culture, we had sports around combat, boxing and martial arts, all of that kind of stuff. Somewhere along the line, somebody figured out, if we manipulate these combats,

we can make it so people are watching and paying us money because their emotions get invested in this. It's not just a random thing where a guy fights another guy. It has to have an emotional reason behind it. Well, you watch this video of these white guys in Alabama jump a black guy who's just doing his job. You know who the good guy and who the bad guys are totally right away and you also know that with this guy being outnumbered well he's in trouble yeah but as soon as the odds are even the bad guys flee yes they run away and you know what happens when they

run away they still get their asses beat. Yes. And that is what would happen if Bobby the Brain Heenan started running up the aisle because all of his cheating backfired, then some guy would grab him and throw him back in and Hulk Hogan would kick his ass. That's right.

That is the core of wrestling. The core of wrestling is when it's an unfair fight, the bad guys win because they're bad. But when the an unfair fight, the bad guys win because they're bad. But when the fight is even, the good guys win because they're good. And I have never seen something so clearly represented in the wild as this, where you're like, well, I am pissed right now because I'm watching bad guys be bad. And they are outnumbering this dude and winning

and wait a minute oh hang on the fight is now even game on good guys win right like so clear that this was wrestling Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think

you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5pm start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. What was that, Sarsaparilla? Sioux City Sarsaparilla? Oh, wow.

No. It's just water. Oh, all right. Sorry. With a little WTF thing on it. The outline made it look like a beer bottle. So I was like, oh, it must be a sarsaparilla. That's a big beer bottle.

Wait a minute. What? Why, if it looks like a beer bottle, must it be sarsaparilla? A, it's 130 well it's fine but there's like five things before sarsaparilla i would think also sarsaparilla is just a delightful thing it's a nice thing to say and to drink yes but it tickles the tongue you know uh i i always loved sarsaparilla when i was a kid sarsaparilla gets so much play right now it's so fun i was partial to cream soda myself oh me too yes but sarsaparilla was rare like you didn't get it very often yeah

yeah you get it at like a restaurant well or when i when i grew up you'd go into a general store like yes that's where that's where they had them what a strange name for a store like general yeah i don't know do you have a specialty not really just just general stuff the general store weren't very inventive or like just specific back then just like it's just generally a good store but no no no there's no value judgment either. It's the general store. Could be good or bad. It doesn't matter.

It just generally has what you need. Yeah, they weren't admin. Yeah. Well, what's funny is there must have been other stores around the general store that were not general. And so the general store was like, whoa, go to that one. They're more likely to have it. Yeah, also, like, I see an opening. There's no general store.

There's a specialty store for, like, hardware. Oh, so many of those. There's one for your horse's shoes. There's one for a guy who makes tombstones. But general... I also like the idea that, you know, it's just a store for generals.

Right. Like, are you a private? No, there's another one. It's a private store down the street. Why is this so stupid and funny? All right. Well, that was recorded at least so that's good yeah sure there you go the friday show is available exclusively for full marin subscribers

every week to hear all the full marin bonus episodes and get every WTF episode ad-free, subscribe by clicking the link in the episode description. Just click on it in whatever podcast player you're using right now, or sign up at WTFpod.com by clicking WTF+. See you on Thursday for episode 1500 of WTF. We'll be right back. Thank you.