WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - WTF Uncovered - Jerry Lewis

Episode Date: December 9, 2016

In September 2016, Marc recorded a conversation with the legendary Jerry Lewis. Until now, no one has heard it other than those in the room. This was supposed to be a full-length episode of WTF, but the interview was compromised and there were no plans to release it. Marc explains what happened as we present this never-before-heard conversation. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, how are you? Welcome to another edition. Is this an edition? Another episode of WTF Uncovered. This is actually supposed to be a regular WTF episode and we didn't air it and I'll tell you why. We did this interview in September, just this last September, with Jerry Lewis. He was promoting a return to movies. He had a small independent film out called Max Rose. He's in it. He did a very fine job, old Jerry. And we usually take these opportunities where certain people only are available during junkets for specific things, whether they be

records or TV shows or movies, but sometimes that's our window to get a full WTF interview. So we agreed to do the interview at the hotel Jerry was staying in, but we specifically asked the publicist that no other interviews be scheduled before ours, okay? Because we're going to be going for an hour at least and we know from experience that that's not easy for a 90 year old and they agreed to this all right so when i got there they'd rented a small space a ballroom space and i got there and the publicists were there and his handler was there and he was in the room doing an hour-long interview you know with the usa today and based on some comments he made later on we suspect that there was even more was there and he was in the room doing an hour-long interview you know with the USA Today

and based on some comments he made later on we suspect that there was even more interviews lined up earlier so right out of the gate I was like this is going to be difficult you know Jerry needs to be moved around in a wheelchair he's got a cane uh he's lucid but it's exhausting it's exhausting for a person half his age and that would be 45. So we started talking and after a half an hour, like on the dot a half an hour, he was done. He was just done. He ended the interview and they wheeled him out. It wasn't like it was really rude. He wasn't rude about it and I couldn't blame him. He's 90 and he was tired, but it was really rude he wasn't rude about it and i couldn't blame him he's 90 and he was tired but it was an awkward moment it was an awkward moment for me where you know someone just

stops in the middle of an interview for whatever reason you know it was just starting to go we did we just barely gotten through uh his early career and you, and he's a fairly provocative guy sometimes. And I was looking forward to really having the conversation get deeper, whatever. So we had this incomplete interview that really couldn't be justified as a satisfying episode of WTF. We never had any intention of airing it. And then we were at the Now Hear This Festival. Then Brendan, my producer and my business partner and myself, that's not three people. Brendan's both of those. We were doing a show at the Now Hear This Podcast Festival. We played a bit of this interview during the live WTF we did.

And it seemed worthwhile for people to hear it, even though it's not a full episode. So in that context, here it is. This is a, for me, and I don't know that Jerry would remember it or it was just another blip on an incredibly long show business career. But for me, this is a very partial interview with Jerry Lewis, though there is about, there's about a half hour here. So take it in. Me and Jerry Lewis almost having a full conversation. For somebody,

a performer like yourself to do a restrained performance must take a lot of focus. It does. In the sense that the impulse is to be funny, I imagine. Oh, of course. That's how you make your living, and that's how you make your life. And then they ask you not to do it.

Turn it off! It's a really incredible feeling, and it's wonderful. It's like taking a vacation. So it's a good thing yes they now in in life do you ever are you wait do you ever find reason to turn that off the funny yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it doesn't belong everywhere i know well how long did it take you to learn that one i think probably 15 or 20 years oh really yeah right takes a long time to get that as part of your everyday thought process well especially because if you're a naturally funny person and on top of that a performer and you have to bury it right

or put it on hold is always a strange feeling. And yet when you do it, you get great satisfaction out of it working. Right, in life and on screen. Right. Because I know that, you know, because I do stand-up myself, and I actually saw Jeff Ross last night. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah.

He's so good. Isn't he? Old style. He's one of the only guys that does it like that anymore. Yeah, he's wonderful. Because I told him I was going to talk to you today, and I go, how is Jerry? He goes, he's great. He's great the last time we had him.

He said he had a birthday for you. Yeah. Was that fun? We had a great time. Who came? Everybody. Yeah? Jesus Christ.

I wouldn't even begin to tell you who was there. Jesus Christ was there? No, he meant to come, but I think he had another engagement. And did they roast you, or did they just? No, it was a straight, wonderful tribute. And one of those tributes that you remember the rest of your life. Oh, that's sweet. You know, in watching the film about, you know,

your life oh that's sweet you know in watching the film about you know yeah i i found it uh horrifying and compelling the idea of uh of a man of your age finding this horrible thing out and and then having that fester uh do you in your life uh yeah how far back do you do your memories go you know in terms of like i'm from new jersey do you remember newark when you were a kid oh sure yeah yeah did you ever go back there clinton avenue clinton avenue newark my grandfather's from elizabeth uh-huh which is i think down the street basically elizabeth was to the right and then Newark is to the left. And when you were there you know what what was the neighborhood like? What were your parents from? Where were they from? Yeah were they were they immigrants or no? No they came straight from Brooklyn. Uh-huh and what kind of business were they in? My dad and my mom were both show people. And did you, how young were you

when you started getting involved? Five. Five? Yep. You were doing stage work? Yep. What were you doing? I was doing a sketch with my dad

and a song. Yeah. And I have great recollection of that night. It was a Saturday night. It was at the Swan Lake Hotel. Is that in the Catskills? Yep. Yeah.

And I went on stage and did a song. And the song was, it was the theme song of depression. It was called Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? Right. I did it, and the audience loved it how do you not love a five-year-old in a tuxedo how do you not be a hit for christ's sakes i was a hit before i went on and the wonderful part about that was that it is the only recollection I have of that period. Because most people forget stuff. Right.

Of being five. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I don't understand how I remember that. And most people tell me it was because it was so emotionally. because it was so emotionally, it was emotionally, what's the word I'm looking for? Satisfying.

Yeah, satisfying. And at the same time, you have to be careful. Yeah. To put a kid out on stage, it comes with a couple of negative thought processes that go on in the audience right sure like why are they working the kid well my mom and dad got 40 for the show and 10 extra if the kid went on well there you go there's your answer you bet what was your dad's what was their act without you? Everything. Just a variety show? He was everything.

He was my mentor, my teacher. And every time he went on, I learned something. Yeah. And how long did he stay in show business? His whole life? His whole life. Oh, yeah. How old were you when he passed away?

Oh, Jesus. My dad was 83 when he passed away. Oh, that's a good run. And my mom was 82. I don't remember. I don't know. Have you had success yet? Were you already working? Oh, yeah. So they saw you. Oh, God, yes. So they lived long enough to see you with Dean and everything?

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, that was great. I loved that they made it. Yeah, to see that. In 1946, I think that was the last time my folks performed. Oh, really? Yeah.

So were they doing the big sort of theaters in New York after? No, no, no, no. They were Borscht-style performers. Right. They were in line with Red Skelton and so many other performers. Did they do Yiddish? They did when necessary, yeah. If they had to.

Oh, yeah, of course. You get to 1,, yeah, of course. You get to 1,000 Jews, you got to do something to let them know you appreciate it. And when did you sort of start, you know, do you remember the other acts that were your parents' contemporaries that had an impact on you? Like doing the borscht belt, like who were the other acts that you don't remember? I have no idea. All I can talk to you about is my mom and dad. Right. That's all I saw.

That's all I allowed into my brain. And if I saw another performer who was really good, I just saw him at that moment and would not take anything from him because it didn't compare to what my folks did. Yeah, there's a double thing there, the emotional connection with your parents. Right. They were the best.

Oh, God, yes. Oh, God. When did you start doing your own acts? How old were you? Oh, 14. And what was it? A record act. I did mime two recordings. Popular records of the day. Yeah. And you just, that's where you developed the Swapstick Act.

That's where I developed mime. Mime. Yeah. I worked very hard on learning the beauty of pantomime. Really? Yeah. How did you study that? You just, on your own?

You just see all those that did it. Yeah. And you did your own version of what you saw them do. And where were you performing at 14? In the Boer Circuit. Oh, really? Yeah. Up in the Catskills?

Right. On your own? Were you an opening act? Were you a headliner? No, I was with my mom and dad. Okay. So you were part of the show. Yeah, of course.

When did it start to sort of take off? I mean, what were the rooms you were working? Were you doing the dinner clubs? I was doing dinner clubs, yeah. The Glass Hat in New York at the Belmont Plaza. The Culinary Room at the Copley Plaza in Boston. Right. All of the good places, I made sure that I didn't get into the necessary work,

where you did it because it was necessary versus doing it because you loved it. Right. And did you have to deal with, like, did you do, like, some of those larger dinner clubs, the kind of mob-owned circuit at the time, like in Florida and all those rooms in Ohio and those kind of things? Wasn't there a whole circuit of dinner clubs? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't play them all, but I did play some of them.

Uh-huh. Do you remember those being good experiences? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Every time I went on stage, it. Uh-huh. Do you remember those being good experiences? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Every time I went on stage was a great experience. Really? No matter what happened out there, I was taught by my dad,

be grateful that they let you go there. Uh-huh. And be grateful that they applaud for you. Yeah. And be grateful that you're going to do it again. Those are recollections I get from my dad that those are lessons in show business yep and when did you start like when did it act like when were you getting notoriety on your own outside of your uh working with your mom and dad when were you sort of uh you know that jerry lewis he's something not until it was martin and lewis yeah i you know i sometimes uh you know i watch uh you know they they do that

offer on television with the roast and the d martin show yeah and i didn't i don't remember that when i was a kid i'm 52 and i watched uh i watched a lot of them you're 52 i'm 52 you look every fucking day i appreciate it and you look every day of 80. 80? I know. I know. Give me a compliment. Give me 10 more years. Alright. 90. Right. You don't look 90. I don't feel 90. Well, the one thing that, like,

was, I think that you guys, you and Dean, you know, did something with comedy that had never been done before. Right. I mean, you're, like, big as the fucking Beatles. Well, we had something going for us. Yeah. That I doubt there were people in the business that ever went for the same reasons.

Dean and I loved one another with a kind of love that is very difficult to describe. And we were rooting performers. When he was on, I was rooting like I never even saw him before, and vice versa. And we had great respect for one another's information, what he knew versus what I knew. And he knew very little about Chopin's. And he called me the preacher. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Because you grew up in it. Huh? You grew up in it. You knew. Oh, of course. Yeah. And anything to do with sets, lights, performing, the elements, what it takes, before you even include the material. And Dean loved all of it and loved learning it. Uh-huh.

And he loved showing me he had it. Right. And vice versa. We had the greatest relationship of any two men that ever lived, and we took it and turned it into gold. Do you miss them sometimes? A lot. Yeah? A lot. There must be a lot of people that are no longer with us that you think about sometimes, huh? Sure, sure i i just think it's so sad that we lose people that still have stuff to teach us right you know that's one of the things i'm very selfish about the loss of an individual yeah because i think i'm not going to get stuff that he could have taught me. Right. But that's a very emotional place.

Sure. And I imagine that it's wonderful when people live long enough to share the wisdom. Yeah. Oh, of course. If they share it. Yeah, yeah. Now, when you were performing with Dean,

did you guys, I mean, because you improvise fairly freely. Oh, yeah. And I imagine that the symbiotic timing of you two like it had to be like a one mind thing oh yes it was like you know you'd go and he'd wait and then he'd nail his line and then you just most of it happened spontaneously and most of the great stuff was unprepared. Uh-huh. And we had such fun getting it to work.

Right. I mean, he used to do something that broke me up so badly, I couldn't give him the next line. And he had the best fun. He would tell me probably three times after a show how good I was. He was wonderful for your psyche and for your ego and your vanity and all that stuff. He was brilliant in how he handled me. And he thought I was pretty smart how I handled him.

And we cared desperately for one another and and in terms of the dynamic we did were you insecure I mean no Christ Almighty I had more guts than than Jimmy Doolittle so what about what about Dean was he insecure insecure? No. So you guys, I always found him to be a very gracious entertainer when I watch him. I don't know him. He was because he was happy to be there. Yeah. And he was there because he loved to be there. Yeah.

So you spent almost a decade working with him? Ten years, yeah. And when that ended, you guys did several movies right and they yeah they were popular that it seemed like movies just came out every year then you just kind of knock them out yeah and it was a system to it the studio system was different then right they churn them out and they get them out as quickly as possible to just follow the success that's why you become independent uh-huhhuh. And which is what you did. Yeah.

So when you and Dean split, for whatever reason... The reasons that we split were very, very sensible. Yeah. They made great sense. I wanted to do more. Right. Dean wanted to do more. Right.

He wanted to be more than a straight man. Right. He sang from his gut yeah and loved it i love doing comedy and the two of us with the two gloves that we had is what made us work right right and at the time you you guys felt like, well, we did it. Of course. And you, good luck. We made two and a quarter for the team in Atlantic City. That's a hundred and... Twelve thousand five hundred. And we'd split the two and a quarter.

Yeah. And 11 months later, we were making $12,000. And then the next figure was $50,000. Yeah. And then the next figure after that was $150,000. And before you knew it, we were making $3.5 million, $4 million a year. Separately? Together. Together.

Together. Yeah. And you guys left at the top, right? Separately, I made $9. But you were passionate. Oh, yeah. But I gave the audience the same energy for the nine bucks that I got for $400,000. When you guys stopped working together, you were at the top of your game, right?

It wasn't diminishing, so that's a smart thing to do. No, it was the top of both of our games. Uh-huh. And then you had some imitators. They just tried to fill the void. I talked to Marty Allen a couple years ago. He was about 93. Was he then?

Well, it was like a year or so ago. he's probably 94 really yeah and he'll still throw out a hello there a funny kid funny very funny kid he could dance yeah he could he could it wasn't good but it looked interesting he was such a nice guy too he seems he seems to like to still be a nice guy yeah so the shift out of the out of the team thing where you where you knew exactly what you wanted to do oh yeah make movies yep and do stand-up live yep and the first movies you made were not written by you. No. You had a studio deal. Yes. Cy Howard wrote My Friend Irma, which was a radio program. Yeah. And we took it and put it into a film, which was My Friend Irma was our first film yeah did well it did well but not because of us we were just beginning yeah but we had a lot of fun learning yeah and and when how many so you worked with him for a few

movies with dean no not after dean on your own with that studio deal oh on my own yeah jesus christ i made 45 films. I know. But at the beginning, you were... I got the money on me. Good. Good, because I could use a couple... You play it right and you can get a good gratuity. I work for TIFFs. That's what I do.

That's all I was hoping for. You pay the valet for me. That's funny. I work for TIFFs. Okay, so you pay the valet for me that's funny I work for tips so but okay so when you started doing the movies on your own I don't know how the system worked because you were involved with you signed a deal with a studio I imagine Paramount and you did what a dozen movies

with Paramount for Paramount Dean and I did 16 I did 37 of your own yeah that's that's incredible so you had this relationship with what was still the old guard i imagine of uh of hollywood barney ballaban was asked by the press how do you get along with jerry lewis he said if he wants to burn the studio, I'll give him a match. So you were still hitting on all cylinders after you and Dean broke. absolutely.

Now, when did you first start directing yourself and your film? 1960. And was that the Bellboy? Yeah. Now,

what, you know, how did that happen? Was your contract done with the studio, or you just said, I'm going to do it? I had a deal with Paramount that was verbal. The contract that we had was Martin and Lewis and nothing on a single basis. And I went forward with that and took full advantage of it. And we became very strong friends.

Barney Balbin was a master of showmanship and he and I really hit it off. He was the head of the studio? Yep he ran the whole Paramount organization and anytime I wanted anything I'd call Barney and it was done now when he when he spent time on the lot on the lot on the Paramount lot if you went down there down the street yeah who would you see hanging around who was around like you know what were the other stars a lot of a lot of movie stars Grace Kelly yeah Kirk Douglas Burt Lancasteraster. Oh, my God. My dressing room was right next door to Bing Crosby, and on the other side was Ginger Rogers. Really? I mean, it was really a movie studio.

Right, and that was the community. You bet. Right next to Bing Crosby. Yeah. Did he ever say to you, you know, Dean stole my thing? No. Oh, good. I never talked to him.

No? He was an independent son of a bitch. Not a nice guy. Well, I wouldn't say that. I can only say I did not enjoy his company. Uh-huh. And he did not enjoy mine. No kidding.

He feared I would take his tube off. That's a big fear. Now, we went on and did a telethon for needy children. I walk on stage and Bing ran the other way. No kidding. I never talked to him again. But he did that maliciously. No, I think he did it out of fear.

Huh. He really feared that I was going to do something... Crazy. ...nuts to him. Right. Never would. Right. But he was just a little nervous, control freak guy.

Didn't want to be the guy who was the brunt of the joke. He had five sons that thought he was a schmuck. What does that tell you? Right. And he was in a team for years, too, with Bob Hope. Did you know Bob? Yeah, I knew Bob. He's a good guy?

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's good. The best at what he did. Right? That one line of stuff, right? Well, his entire career was predicated on what was happening in the world. And I think he was the best at that. Well, I noticed that in the film, you got Mort Sahl sitting there. Yeah. And he's a difficult man. I have not interviewed Mort Sahl.

And I wanted to interview Mort Sahl. Well, he's nuts. I guess that's another way to put it. He's not as nuts as I am because my nuts is to give people pleasure. His nuts is because he was an annoyed man. Yeah. Annoyed by the process and annoyed by life in itself.

Yeah, he's also one of those guys, not to be rude or anything, he seems to think that he's responsible for a great deal of things. Well, that's okay. Yeah. As long as he lives his life and doesn't step on anybody, it's fine.

He's not stepping too hard right now. No. Yeah. But it was nice to see him. It's nice to see people working. Right. Because I interviewed Shelly Berman a while back before he got ill. Some of these guys carry things with them for a long time.

Yeah. A lot of anger for a long time. I think we're all guilty of that. Yeah? What do you got? Hmm? Who are you mad at? Whom I'm mad at?

Yeah. Hitler. That's a good one. Tojo. Uh-huh. What do I want to talk about negative for? It's not negative. I just, you know, you're a long time in show business, you know.

I mean, I'm in show business half, you know, like 25 years, and, you know, I've got some things I can't let go of already. But I guess it's the nature of it. Sophie Tucker was 56 years old, and she just wanted to fuck Dean. Yeah. That's it? That's it. That's all I can give you about it.

So now after you do The Bellboy, what was the story with that? You just pulled the cameras in. How was the first independent film made for you? I was booked to play at the Fontainebleau in Miami. When I got there and I started to perform, I had a four-week engagement there. And at the same time, I ran into some static from some of the creative people at Paramount.

So I said, let me write my own movie. And I did. And in nine days, I wrote 163 page script. Was it something in your mind before you just said, what am I going to do? And you were sitting at the hotel, you saw a bellboy or what? I looked at the hotel and said, I'll shoot everything here. And I did. And the movie made $200 million. So now you're a genius. Of course. They were scared to death at what I was doing.

Why? Because they thought I was making a silent movie. I said, it's not a silent movie. Right. Because Jerry doesn't talk doesn't mean it's a silent movie. Right. Which it wasn't. But then when it went out and made all the money,

they thought I was very smart. And this sort of defined you as a solo performer on screen. Right. Which it wasn't. But then when it went out and made all the money, they thought I was very smart. And this sort of defined you as a solo performer on screen. Right. That, you know, you could carry a movie. You had a way of managing yourself on there. Your comedy was tight. You all right? Right.

You got to go? Sure. Can we talk for a few more minutes? Get up to the current? No, you went everywhere there is to go. Yeah. Without today. Uh-huh.

Well, we're almost. Yeah, I don't want to, you know, I want to know more about the building of what you became as a comedic performer. You got 20 hours? Yeah, I do. You? No. Well, you want to move up to uh teaching i was

curious i know you taught at usc i don't want to move anywhere i've been sitting here a half hour yeah and that's it we're done yep okay well it was good talking to you and i like the new movie chris if i thank you if i didn't have the rundown i've got to work today i'd stay with you and i like the new movie chris if i thank you if i didn't have the rundown i've got to work today i'd stay with you but i can't okay mr lewis i appreciate your time and i like the new film thank you i appreciate that and i hope all of your your gigs are great oh you too okay all right thank you see that we could have gone more obviously. Right. And it was an awkward moment. You know, I was just sitting there like in metaphorically with my dick hanging out

because you know, he just made a decision. His handler wheeled him off. The publicist comes up to me and I was like, what was that? And she was like, yeah, I don't know what happened. Do you want me to go try to get him back? And I'm like, what you really, really, you think you're going to you're gonna get him back you know just forget it there's nothing we can do now you can't talk him back into it so it was odd because a guy they were videotaping it for some reason and one of the guys who was working a camera or a mic is a fan of wtf and he was like that's a bummer that was going good and i'm like tell me, man. So I just sadly packed up my equipment and left knowing that I couldn't really air it as a full episode. But I'm grateful that we got to do that with this episode.

I don't know if I'll get another opportunity to interview Jerry Lewis. So I hope you enjoyed that. Next week, we'll have something else that no one has ever heard before. It was going to be an episode or a thing that people had to pay to listen to, but we're releasing it next week for everyone to hear on these Uncovered WTF episodes.

Alright. Boomer lives! Thank you.