Y Combinator Startup Podcast - #8 - Rick and Morty Writer - Ryan Ridley

Episode Date: June 7, 2017

Ryan Ridley is a writer on Rick and Morty. Before that he was a writer on Community.Read the transcript and show notes on the YC blog.

Hey, this is Craig Cannon, and you're listening to Y Combinators podcast. So today's episode is with Ryan Ridley, who's a writer for the TV show Rick and Morty, and before Rick and Morty, he worked on community. Ryan and I had an awesome time talking about how the show works, so we covered a bunch of the sci-fi references in season one and two. We talked a little bit about season three, which is coming out. And we also talked about their new VR game, which is called Virtual Rickality. And you can download that now. And before we get started, I just want to say thanks to Dan Guterman, who I used to work with at The Onion, and he was the one who introduced us to Ryan. Okay, here we go.

All right, man, we should probably jump into Rick and Morty at some point. Before we do that, how about you just, like, give your background up until Rick and Morty? So I didn't really know what I was doing with my life. I was a terrible student. I just, I didn't do anything. I didn't, like, it was before the era of even making any kind of videos or so, you know, I didn't really know how to channel my creativity. I mean, I would make like camcorder videos when I was a younger kid.

And then in high school, it was just getting high and skipping school and, you know, goofing off with my friends. And I didn't really know I wanted to get into comedy. I thought I wanted to maybe because I was drawing, getting to cartoons or comic books or something like that. And then I just didn't have the discipline for that. And so it was after high school, I was barely graduated, barely gotten to community. college, which turned out to serve me well for being a writer on community. So, but I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. And then it somehow had an epiphany, which I'm going to reveal some biographical information.

And I go, that's not really an epiphany. I decided to do stand-up. Now, my dad owned a stand-up comedy club. So I was going to stand-up comedy clubs my whole life. And he was a huge, it's a huge comedy club. It's considered one of the premier clubs in the country. And so growing up, I got to see. you know, Gary Shanling and Drew Carey, Alan DeGeneres, Jim Carrey, I saw my 16th birthday

with all my friends. And that was still one of the most mind-blowing experiences because it was pre-Ais Ventura post in living color. Wow. So he was big, but he wasn't, you know, as big as he would be coming the next 10 years after that. And so, and he was so quick. And so I remember we were all there and I had one friend.

We were like 16. So, of course, you've got friends of different ages. I had a 14-year-old friend who's very small, and it's an adult club, but I'm the owner's kid. So he gets up and he walks across to go to the bathroom, and Jim Carrey mid-bit just stops. He goes, hey, Mr. That fake mustache won't fool me. And it was just like the middle of his bit. He just like saw that kid and just like me. And then we all like, my dad brought us back to the green room, shuffled us back there and, you know, opened the door.

And he was just like, just like sitting there, like just emanating energy. And he's like, hey, so it's your birthday? I'm like, yeah. It's like, cool. You want to come back to my hotel room and watch some porno? I was like, it was what you'd want from a meeting Jim Carrey. So anyway, so then I was like, I want to get involved in comedy.

But this is pre any kind of internet video, YouTube or anything. And even, like, I didn't know. All I knew how to do is edit camcorder to VCR style. Oh, like dual VCR thing. Yeah. So I wasn't really doing this. I'm like, well, stand up is something. you can write comedy and then you can perform it and you get an immediate reaction.

So I started doing that and doing the open mics. And then eventually I was like, okay, Detroit is not for me the place I want to find my comedy voice. So I moved to Chicago, which is a great transition city. And immediately I was watching these people on stage in Chicago and just everyone was blowing my mind just comedically. And so got involved in that scene and I met a lot of people there who were like, I probably should stop name dropping, but my, my comedy class at that time was like Kumail Langiani, T.J. Miller, Pete Holmes, Kyle Keney and Matt Bronger. These are all guys who I did open mics with. They started, you know, so we all kind of became friends. And that was really my college

because I didn't go to college, really. I went to community college or two years and a transfer to Michigan State where all I did is watch TV constantly and say, I just want to write a TV show. And specifically, I wanted to write. animated sci-fi comedy show. Okay. And this is before a featureama. Dude. So there's really nothing that existed in any, yeah.

As far as that particular. As far as like something you, like aspired to. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're watching, I watched Cohen and I watched old sitcoms at Seinfeld. And I'm like, I like this stuff. But I knew that I wanted something that was sci-fi because I like sci-fi or genre, fantasy, something. But also comedy.

It was like, I had no clue I'd ever be involved in a show like that. Like, Rick and Morty is literally the exact show that I was fantasizing about at 20 years old. And on top of it, to be able to do it with friends, as opposed to, let's say, I got hired on Futurama, I'd be like, I'm getting hired on a Fox show because I, you know, who knows? Either they loved my script and they hired me or I worked my way up from my writer's assistant. but but Rick and Morty is like it's sci-fi fantasy comedy and it's dark as dark as my sensibility is which featureama never really was as dark as I think ultimately I like to write and then just doing it with your friends yeah which you have a rapport you have an understanding it's like being in a band I hate using that metaphor that's just I actually like using that metaphor

but I feel like I need to say I hate it because it's like it might be perceived as pretentious but it is because you have a rapport with people as opposed to being a man hired and thrown into a staff where it's like, hey, I, where I assume we're all funny, professionally funny enough to be on the show, but I don't know what your sensibility is. So anyway, I think that's a long way of getting to how I got to Rick and Morty, which was Yeah. Oh, well, you got to, you got to part. Yeah.

So, yeah. Skipped how you actually got to. So then I was doing stand-up in Chicago for four years. And towards the end of it, I was like, like, I want to make videos. And I'm so, Guterman and I, I referenced him now twice, Dan Guterman, a writer, producer on Rick and Morty and one of the biggest ingredients of making that show great in the last two seasons. We were talking about how we're both driven by proving to the world that we know what we're doing,

but also being terrified of being exposed to frauds at the same time. And so we're angry. We're like, people are going to respect us and validate that we know what we're doing. We're funny. And so, yeah, so I saw this guy make a comedy video on the stand-up scene, like a video video, which was relatively infrequent back then. And I watched it. I was just so angry. I was like, I'm going to make a video ten times better than that guy.

And so I met, I was waiting tables with a guy named Danny Jelinek who's now a big comedy director. He directed like Children's Hospital. And, I mean, he directs on last week tonight. Is that what John Oliver show is called? That sounds right. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So he just directs tons of comedy.

By the time we were waiting tables together and we just hit it off, you know, just joking around and riffing like waiting tables together. And so I found out he's in film school. And like I said, up until that point, I'd only done VCR editing. So when he showed me how to edit on a computer, my mind was blown. I was like, you can just drag a song underneath this. And then we don't, I don't have to record a song in the background in a boombox. And so we made a couple of comedy videos together with a lot of these standups.

I gave Kumail Nanjiani his first role. In fact, I confirmed that. I hung out with him a couple weeks ago. And I was like, was Vive this video of Danny and I made? Was that your first acting role? Is it? Yeah. Wow.

So you can look that up. Anyway, we start making videos together. And then I found out about Channel 101, which is this, should I explain what that is for your audience? Yeah, people won't know what that is. Okay. So it's still going after 15 years. So Channel 101 was started by Dan Harmon and Rob Shrob. Dan's the creative community and Rick and Morty and Rob is a director who's directed a lot of

stuff also on TV, comedy stuff, and Sarah Silverman Show co-creator. At the time, they were writing partners and they were really feeling the futility of selling stuff. They'd made a show called Heat Vision to Jack Pilot with Jack Black, the Benziller directed, but Fox didn't pick it up. And I think it was crushing. And they were selling, crushingly disappointing. They were selling all these shows and movies, but they weren't getting made.

And they're like, what are we doing? We're just writing and nothing is being seen by anybody. So they started Channel 101 just to make stuff, videos in 2003 with their friends. And the framing device essentially is a film festival, but it was set up like it was a competitive TV network. So they would, you'd make stuff, you'd submit it to the primetime panel. The primetime panel was the creators of shows that were currently in the screening. So that gave them the credibility to be just. judging over, but it's purely democratic. So what would happen is the creator, the five returning

shows would be put up against five pilots and the audience would vote for their top five favorite shows among those 10. So you could get canceled and you could be off the prime time panel and then a new person could get on. So it always was, you know, people would say it's a conspiracy that they're going to put in shitty shows so that they don't have any competition. But no, because anyone with a pure heart and soul, which Dan and Rob do have creatively, and most of us who became their peers, that sort of came to Channel 101 and had this too. You want the show to be good. You actually want to put stuff in there

that's going to make you work harder. That's what made me better. When I moved to Chicago, I worked, you know, the people in Detroit were comedy people in Detroit who were, you know, if you're really serious, you move to Chicago, L.A. or New York. So once I moved to Chicago, is around people who were that much more serious.

They pushed me harder. L.A., you know, same thing. And then you're in Channel 101, and you're like, you're watching, you know, Justin Royaland's early stuff. You know, a guy named J.D. Rizner did Yacht Rock. These people, they were, everyone who's getting better and they were making you have to get better. And Dan and Justin at the time, and Rob, and at the time, the Lonely Island guy has had a show in there,

who now Sarah Chalk was in their early stuff. And I was like, the girl from scrubs. And now she's the voice of Beth, which is weird. So, um, okay, I got to turn this off. This is Rob Shrob texting. Oh, whoa. So, uh, I, I moved out there. because a friend of mine said, hey, you know, you like that heat vision jackpilot.

These guys, they created the Tinkill Channel 101. And so I moved to L.A. specifically just to get on the radar and make stuff for that thing. Because I watched the videos. I was like, this is exactly my kind of comedy. And so the first video I made, I submitted it and was rejected. And it was the most heartbreaking experience. And then I submitted another one and it got in, but it didn't get voted back.

Okay. And so that's what happens. it just made you work harder. You go, I've got to make something even better now. And you have to just, it forces you to just keep working harder until you make something that the audience can't deny, you know. And then when you do that, your peers will go, oh, hey man, at the screening. You know, nice video.

It's pretty funny. And then eventually you're getting so good. They're like, you want to hang out? And then eventually you're getting so good. They're like, hey, we just got a TV show. You want to work on it? And that's basically how it all fade out. So that's how you're employed and you have friends.

basically. Congrats. It all. And you know, listen, it's a curse and a blessing to have your employers also be your friends. Yeah, no, I know the feeling. Um, so I think that like, you've done a bunch of interviews on Rick and Morty. And like Dan and Justin have also done a bunch of interviews on Rick and Morty. I think what people listening to this will probably be most interested in is like, just the sci-fi elements, the random tech elements of it all. Um, I was wondering if you could just like explain where you get your ideas for stuff or like, is it coming from like, you know, sci-fi, like fiction of the past? Are you just making stuff up?

Where does it come from? Definitely a big helping of fiction from the past. We, you know, are all well-versed in every iconic sci-fi genre, movie, and television show of the past 50 years. Okay, fine, maybe not 50 years. I've never seen a loss in the space episode. 25. Yeah. And on top of that, one of our writers, Mike McMahon,

And seems to read every sci-fi book and graphic novel. And I mean, you know, I watch a lot of TV and movies and I read occasional sci-fi books. But I just, he's like an encyclopedia of that stuff. So we'll be talking about all these ideas like, oh, what if it's something like this? What if it's like this plot from this book combined with this episode of, you know, I always give the example of the total recall episode from season two where the parasites are in the house with them. I think I think McMahon pitched that as oh and Buffy the Vampire Slayer season five they introduced his character Dawn as her sister and everyone's pretending. I mean, they're not pretending.

They're treating her like she's always been there. And you know that it is a viewer that she hasn't had a sister for the first four seasons. And so you find out the supernatural explanation for why that is. So I think that's where it started and then we built on top of that a thing element like, oh, they're all trapped in the house and they're all suspicious. and then it was like, oh, what if we do the dang, I think Gooderman pitched the idea of, well, what if this is a way to do a clip show? So you're actually throwing a clips, but the clips themselves are not memories in the sense of like a traditional clip show. They're actually part of the sci-fi. And so it ends up being a patchwork of different references that are hopefully combined enough so we're not doing a spoof of any one thing.

What I would never want to do, not that we haven't. I mean, Anatomy Park is, you know, is considered maybe one of the weaker episodes, at least by us because it's just a a Jurassic Park spoof meets a fantastic voyage trope's boof. That's been done a thousand times. And, you know, we try to do a darker, weirder version of it. But that's not the most ideal episode. We want to, like, really make it feel that the references are, if anything, hidden. But then, okay, so for like in the total recall episode, right?

Like, they ended up getting spotted because it's something like they only have positive memories. Something like that? Was that something you guys made up or are you just like? Yeah, that was, you know, that was one of those moments that. that, you know, when you get to so far in a script and you're trying to figure out what that, I can't remember, that was like the third act twist, I assume.

You're like, okay, what is going to solve this problem? And then that's just when good old fashion writing ingenuity comes in, you know? And I don't remember who pitched it, but it was, you know, yeah, the idea of you can identify the parasites because you only have positive memories of them, unlike your family, you've had all the complicated emotional experiences with that we all have. But, you know, that's that example. That's the anatomy of that episode.

But, you know, sometimes it's more like, like, Morty Night Run was like, oh, let's do like a midnight run kind of road adventure. And that's, we're not referencing Midnight Run. There's no, you know, like, oh, that's clearly the Riafut Koto character, but he's green wearing sunglasses with three eye lenses. But it's like it's that the essence of that, you know. So, oh, well, yeah. Go on. I don't want to ramble on too much. I forget that, no, no, you're doing great.

What's the title of the episode where it's like, World Within World, Within World, Within World. The title is called, God, we don't have any consistent naming formula. A lot of times it's puns with their names of famous movie titles, and sometimes just completely, oh, I think it's the Ricks must be crazy. That sounds right. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The microverse and the minivers. Yes. Where did that come from? That Justin had this idea of that Rick had some machine that it would, he would liquefy an entire civilization because it was the only way to create this incredibly delicious dipping sauce he loved. Oh, the Moulon. Not the Moulon sauce. This was, this was way before the Moulon sauce. But it was something similar. It was like, you know, which obviously the common theme is that Justin is obsessed with these kind of random things. and then we just want to like capture that energy and put it in there. So it was just the idea of what could illustrate Rick's character better than he just,

he would sacrifice an entire civilization. One of the greatest inventions is creating life, complex life, just to, because once you liquefied it, it just happens to be the most delicious recipe. So I can't remember it was always the character, they go in and a character comes out. I think we actually, for the final version, the character never leaves, but there's a version where they sort of, the characters go in, whatever combination in the earliest version. And then one of the people kind of comes out. So from the point of view, the character coming out, it's like this is where the world of the gods, you know? Yeah, I don't think they did.

We didn't do that. Yeah. But that was a big element. But at some point in early on in the writing of that, it felt a little too much like the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa's tooth becomes. It's a treehouse of horror where her tooth, I think Bart touches some petriotus that her tooth is in, and then the static electricity creates life, and then it has a little civilization,

and it's a point where they get to the future, and now there's, like, nukes or spaceships flying around and attacking Bart. And it felt like it was a little too much like that, and so I think also because we were doing the beats where Rick and Morty were traveling repeatedly throughout, time period so they'd get to the medieval period and it just sort of felt a little too like oh i get it this is like our medieval period but it's aliens and a jar and you know it's just it's trying to

figure out how to get it so we've just we're doing something that hasn't been done by either simpsons or south park or featureama which is not an easy uh cone path you know whatever those those highway cone paths when you're doing uh driver's training i mean i've heard you guys mentioned that before but like do you have someone who has whether it's like encyclopedic knowledge or is there some website where you're like plugging in the references you're using? Because it seems like impossible to avoid. I think it is impossible to avoid. And we haven't done a good job all the time because I remember we were doing the episode,

Lawmore Dog, which had the Inception thing. And there's Scary Terry, who's the Freddie Cooger character. And we were way too far down the road. And Mike McMahon said, oh, you know, South Park did, you know, their inception episode had Freddy Cooger. and we're like, uh, thanks. That would have been good to mention yesterday. Adam Sandler, everybody.

Adam Sandler impression. Uh, yeah, but it's like great. Now we're too far down the line to change it. And, you know, then you just feel like a hack. And none of us had seen it. And the thing is, I love South Park, but I can't watch every episode of that show. They think there's so many. Well, I mean, let alone remember everything.

Yeah. I think it's just like, oftentimes when I'm working on creative projects, I'm just like, is this new or a, like, faintly. remember it? Like, is it an exposure to something? By the way, there's a,

there's a feeling that I get that's a combination of, of self-loathing and self, what's the opposite of self-loathing? Confidence. But I'm trying to still make it negative, like self-glorifying. Where I, if I think I've come up with a really particularly brilliant idea,

I immediately go, this had to have been done before, you know, and so, but there is, there are actual websites. have TV tropes and movie tropes you can look up. But it's, I think it's almost, sometimes it's just too nuanced.

Like, how do you even describe this particular bit? You know, it's just so, and, you know, the fact is, it's like, it's sort of like when they do these videos every now and then of comedians getting busted, like, did Amy Schumer steal, Louis Cske's bit? I don't know, because there's so much stand-up comedy being generated and there's only so many ideas in the world. And I don't even mean there's only so many jokes. I mean, like, like people are always kind of landing on the same.

human thoughts about a life, you know? Yeah. So, you know, I, I could say we have never consciously ripped anything off. And, you know, sometimes maybe it's to a fault where you're like, you're trying so hard to stay away from something that you're like, you're not having any fun. Well, I was wondering about that with like, I mean, maybe, maybe not South Park or Simpsons or something, but like, you know, an older, you know, piece of fiction where it's just like, let's do something almost identical to it,

but like basically add the Rick and Morty spin on top of it, and like that opens it up in a new way. Like I guess you've sort of done that with a bunch of episodes that are like throwbacks, but I wonder if it like goes more nuance than that with like obscure stuff. God, what was it? It was the one with the first introduced the console of Ricks,

and it was called a Rick for every season or something like that. But that episode is, I think that it's sort of, it's one of the few episodes where, oh, you, you know, actually ironically, people did say, did you guys rip off the Council of Reeds, which is a storyline from the Fantastic Four, which is a bunch of Reed Richards from different parallel realities in the Marvel universe formed a Council of Reeds? No, we didn't know about that. But it's also an obvious place to go with Rick. But more importantly, the story itself around it just felt like a movie compressed in a 22-minute episode. It was more like a not really a familiar story, but like, oh, this would be, this is like kind of a classic. This is a mystery. It was a mystery episode.

It was like who they were investigating, you know, Rick was trying to clear his name. So that was a Rick and Morty take on a mystery, a, you know, trying to think of examples of movies. I mean, the fugitive. You know what I mean? That's a movie or a show before that about a guy who's trying to hunt the real killer of his wife while he's being pursued by the authorities. So that was the Rick and Morty take on that trope, or genre or subgenre. And I think that's because I didn't even think of that as being a fugitive spoof because it wasn't. It's just, it's like you said, it's like the Rick and Morty take on a classic.

Yeah, I mean, it's like how many movies are just like, you know, recomposed Greek myths, right? And just like, well, it's sort of the same thing, but not really at all. Yeah. We do a episode in season three that's, it's not a spoof of anything in particular, but we started referencing very specific movies and we're like, well, this is, okay, and I'm going to try to weave through this without spoiling anything. It's like, you know, 127 hours is, I think I might even talk about this Comic-Con. So it's actually probably okay to talk about.

But there's an episode where Rick turns himself into a pickle. And it's the only other footage that's shown. They showed it after the premiere of season of episode one and season three. So that's not a spoiler. Rick turns himself into a pickle. But what the episode's really about is he turns himself to a pickle. And then he sort of gets trapped. And he ends up involved in a situation, one thing, one twist.

leads to another, and he's totally screwed. And he doesn't have the, he doesn't have the same resources that he usually has access to. He's a pickle. He's not himself. He can't reach into his lab coat and pull out his portal gun or any of his other infinite inventions he has hidden in there. And yet he's in the most mundane of circumstances. He's just on earth. He's, he's a few hundred feet from the house.

He's not, but he's a pickle. So he has to figure out how to get himself out of that with, with really, basic ingenuity. And so we kept talking about 127 hours or gravity, like these movies about characters that are just in these situations that they are alone and they have to figure out, you know, what do I do to get out of this? And so that was a great, once again, to do the Rick and Morty version of what that subgenre is.

I don't even know what that subgenre is called survivalist subgenre? Room escape type deal. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so then, so all the gadgets. You talked about the portal gun and stuff. Like, you know, the aliens have random gadgets. When they go to a different world, everyone's got different, like, weapons that they attack them with.

Where does all that stuff come from? Well, that, I know, I mean, you know, like the first example that pops my head is I think that Justin wanted to base the citadel of Ricks off of something from Halo. I'm not a huge video game person. He is. So there's some big spaceship citadel thing in the game Halo. And so a lot of times the elements. of the planets or the technology will be, you know, straight up visual references. Like, oh, this is, you know, this is like a gun from this movie.

I'm not as, I'm not a big tech person. I never thought about this until just now, but I've never really cared that much about what the tech looks like. As long as it, you know, you want to make sure kind of everything feels and looks different and there's a flavor to it. But I like the, I'm pretty into the alien design. So I've gotten involved. I've talked to art directors and, you know, character designers and been like,

all right, this alien has to look like this. If it looks like this, it's not going to work. It's not going to be as funny. If it looks like this, it's got to look like, you know, it's got to be like, you got to take it seriously. Or it's from this kind of planet. So it's got to have these specific anatomical features. And it's true. Like you, you, I mean, it's so funny, though, because there's been so many times when, you know, I don't,

the Meseeks is a perfect example. I feel like I've talked about this. I'm so sorry if anyone who's watching this. Don't worry. I have already heard this anecdote. Anyone who's heard this before is going to want more. Like they want it again. But the Meseeks,

I wrote that episode. And when I say I wrote, you know, it's such a collaborative effort. My name was on that script. But, you know, we all sort of write a little bit of everything. So,

um, and Dan does so much of the final dialogue passes and stuff. So the Meseeks start out as, you know, this voice, this concept that Justin pitched. And then I, I wrote the episode and I wrote the episode script and I still in my head pictured them as tiny little, tiny little for you at home.

Creatures like the size of Smurfs or something. And Justin, it was, I'm not kidding, it was the blue dress, gold dress of the writer's room because half the people reading the same script and crew imagine them life size and half imagine them as tiny little gremlin things or smaller than gremlins. And so, and I don't, I just, I guess the script was written in a way we never really thought about their scale, you know? So there's a scene where Jerry and Beth are in the restaurant and they all bust in. And I remember thinking like, oh, that it'd be funny if they're like on the table like, you know, three apples high like in Jerry's face with a gun. Yeah. And everyone's like, no, no, no.

It's like a life size, human size, six foot person with a gun. I was like, that's going to be terrifying. So anyway, it's those conversations, though, that are important because you're like, it's a very different concept if they were Smurfs versus. what they ended up being, you know? And then on top of that, you have just what do they look like? Are they complex? Are they simple? Are they blue? Are they monochromatic? How do you decide for, you know, the six foot Misiq versus the little, you know, the little munchkin version? Lots of debate. Yeah? Lots of debate. Yeah, you got to discuss it, you know. And like I said, it was so evenly divided that it wasn't like just me fighting for them being small. It was like other

people too. And then, you know, eventually you figure out what's the best way. And like, every other argument we've ever had, eventually the episode gets finished and made and it comes out and then you just kind of forget about all the problems. Like, that would have been better if they were two feet high. But then you're like years goodbye. You're like, who cares? Well, it's the thing that like someone watching it can't know. I mean, maybe not they can know.

But yeah. Have you ever done like a, I don't know if it's like a director's cut animation where you're like, I kind of wanted him to look like this. So can you, you know, edit that in? and throw it in as an extra. Like a, yeah. Well, there's been lots of storyboarding that we've, we've redone and, and, you know, revised.

And that's what, that ends up getting us in troubles. We'll just, well, because it's animation, we'll be like, we're going to rewrite the script and you can redraw. You know, it's not a good thing to do because we're not a Fox show with unlimited, or at least near unlimited funds. So there's lots of stuff that we've, we've had this, like, totally, uh, alternate versions of scenes. And the premiere of season two,

which is really just soul-crushing, heartbreaking episode to break that no one has ever been ultimately satisfied with its final result, that we kept revising, changing. And we could never really land in what the logic of that episode was. It was the one where the things keep splitting.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, and so it's like a split-screen episode. And we just could never figure out what the logic was. Because at the end of the day, admittedly, unlike Futurama, none of us on the staff have,

we are barely educated. We're not mathematicians. We don't really know that much about science. We're writing from the point of view of tropes and genre stuff. We want to tell good stories. We're more scientists of story, if you will, as opposed to like,

we don't really know how any of this shit works. We should get a science advisor. So that episode, at one point it was so, there's a whole running thing where Morty had gone and gotten some point short shorts. And no one calls attention to it because, you know, the world has been frozen between season one and season two. And so you find out that they've just been running around having fun, looting department stores, and Morty at some point grabbed short shorts.

And he's walking around. And at one point Rick starts leaning into him, berating him. And he points out the short shorts and starts roasting him about the short shorts. Like, what is this the new look for season two? And he starts breaking the fourth wall. You're hoping that you get one of these limited edition alternative action figure with short shorts, Morty? Which I love, by the way. I think that's one of the funniest parts of the show is that you can weave in and out of the fourth wall.

But still, you're still invested in the story. But anyway, not that that scene end up being in the air, but it's on the DVD, I think. And yeah, and by the way, even more of that in season three, there's like, we rewrote some episodes so much that there's animatics that are like so different than the final product. Yeah, well, that's what I was wondering. I mean, like, season three isn't out yet, but except for the first episode. I was wondering if you could jump into that. Like, what can we expect? Like, what kind of weird things are coming up without revealing everything? What I like about the show, and from a broad point of view personally, is that people seem to be invested in the reality of the show. In other words, you know, people are wondering about certain characters. Oh, when is that person going to come back? What's happening with that character? And the fact that anybody cares about characters that were introduced once in season one and like intriguing ideas like

the eyepatch morty who's the evil morty you know what it was that character going to come back in season three i think that we stay true to the idea of of those the world is real there are consequences at the same time we're going to have lots of one-off things but there's consequences both i mean you know you saw in the first episode that they they get divorced that that's that has consequences that play out through the whole season. But there's also consequences that are outside of, you know, some of the stuff that you've seen already is going to play out more in season three. Okay.

Yeah. So along those lines then of like random things that like maybe get addressed, maybe don't get addressed. I have a question from another YC person, Kat, Manialloch. Her question is, can you make Roy the game? Can we make it? Will you make it? Will we the writers of an animated comedy show

Create a virtual reality simulation? Can we get funding for it? I think is the question. I don't know. I mean, maybe we can figure it out. Maybe we already have, and that's what this is. Oh, shit. We're in Roy.

Uh-huh. Oh, we're in Ryan. Oh, okay. Yeah, what was the second one called? I think I might have pitched that joke, the whatever the Roy sequel is thought. I think it was Dave or David or something like that. Yeah.

So the answer is no, because we're incapable of that. But also, maybe we already have. Yeah. I think in the virtual reality game, virtual rickality, I think it's called, I think Justin told me there's a scene, there's an Easter egg where you play a knockoff version of Roy. Oh. It sounded hilarious. I played some of that game, but I didn't get this far.

You find like a bootleg Roy. And then you, so you're playing a virtual reality game within a virtual reality game. Because it's the virtual reality Rick and Morty game. Yeah, I get just like, we should step back and explain what the actual Rick and Morty virtual reality game. Oh, because it just came out, right? Yeah, yesterday. Yeah. That's, that's a game where you're, it's a virtual reality game where you're, you're, you're a clone of Morty.

So when you appear in the game, you're in the garage. And Rick and Morty are standing there and yelling at you. And then you do different things. And you, you know, obviously it's somewhat limited to where you can go. It's virtual reality. And you can't just run around. But you go to like different worlds. I think you can teleport to three or four different worlds.

You can go in the house, which is pretty mind-blowing. Because I, it's weird. I remember I played the level or I was just, Justin put me into the scene in the house. And I'm like, this is the house? Like, this is the living room. This feels so weird. Like I'm not used to experiencing it from that perspective. That's so funny.

Was there like any like disconnect between like the house? you imagined writing and the virtual reality house that's been created? Well, the disconnect is pretty great because I, you know, Justin pointed out something because you're standing in front of the TV and so the couch is behind you and then to your, let's say the TV's this way, to my left was the sliding glass door, which I know we've used a lot, you know, the party episode takes place in the house, but never really thought about it. And Justin says, that's Mike Chilion's, this is Mike Chilion's parents' house. Like that, that sliding glass door and the way it looks outdoors, I never would have thought

That's a friend of ours. He also happened to be the character designer, the pilots. He actually designed a lot of the original characters. But I never would have thought that until I was physically in the space. And I looked over, I'm like, oh, my God, that is Mike Chilion's parents' house. Like, this is, I totally see it now. But I never would have thought of that watching it. I mean, I forget that, I forget what color hair Beth has.

Like, in my mind, for some reason, she's a brunette. And I always forget that she's a blonde because most of my experience of the show is in my head. I don't consume it as much as some people do because I don't, sometimes I don't even watch the final episodes. Yeah, no, I believe it. And, you know, and if anything, I'm watching most of them when they're in the animatic stage, when they're all black and white. So sometimes I actually forget what the characters look like, like what their outfit, you know,

Rick's color palette. Like there's a joke in the first episode where he says, I used to wear blue pants. And then to write that joke, which McMahon did, like, I think we had to look at Rick and Morty a sheet of paper and be like, oh, okay, so he has brown pants, I think, a blue shirt, a white lab coat. And then even, like, when Rick takes his shirt off, like, what he looks like underneath blew my mind once. It's like, oh, God, what is he? Yeah. I hadn't thought about that. That's a good point. So, okay, so, so the Roy thing is an Easter egg in virtual reality, so virtual Rickality. I think that's what it's called. Okay. If I know how we name our property,

our titles, yeah. I think so, because then there's like the Instagram thing that it, Rick Stiverse. What about the other games? Like, I played some of the other ones, the other games. Like, what has this, like, caused you guys to, like, jump into all these random digital property things? Well, that's not us. Is this a adult swim?

Yeah, I think they're driving it. I mean, I certainly, you know, I don't, um, I was sort of involved. I consulted a little bit on the, some of the web content that bridged season two and season three, which is out, you know, the thing where, um, it's like a, a website that's in theory, it's the Galactic Federation's website. Okay. These guys, Carrot, I think the company's called, they did a bunch of content for that. I think they also designed the Ricks Diverse.

But that's like driven by Adult Swim and whoever they accept contract. Yeah. We've had more direct say on the DVD special features and a little bit, Justin oversees some of the merchandise, you know, like what the figures are going to be or look like or the toys or pitches for ideas for what they could do, you know, for different kinds of stuff that I may or may not be able to talk about. But I had a lot to say personally on the, on like some of the DVD stuff. Like I remember for the season two, there's a lot of debate about what the little thing that we're going to have. In the season one, it was the Jack Chick-Trick track, which is from the Council of Rick's episode, or there's a, the Good Morty Jack-Chick track.

So we just printed up real ones and put it in. And then for the second one, we really had a long conversation about, what should it be and we finally landed and well it should be a plumbus instruction manual and then we should do the joke should be in some alien language first and then this then we're usually Spanish or French would be is the English translation so yeah but nothing I haven't had a lot of say about other stuff or certainly I can't speak for what Justin Danavit's saying and that's true for the VR game too because I figured like you just have this room of nerds and they're like oh we should make a VR get like the accounting game too with that was like alchemy yeah yeah oh no wait that was just a job It was Justin's accounting thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was getting confused because the guys who created the Rick and Morty VR game did a job simulator. So I was getting...

But accounting was Justin's project with the guy who said the Stanley Parable. Okay. Yeah. I think they did that in like a week, the initial build of that. But anyway, I wish I was more involved in the Rick and Morty virtual reality because I do have one knit to pick with it. And I think I maybe I'm being a dick, because the guys did. did a great job, the alchemy guys. And I think they kind of just created that from scratch.

Like, you know, Justin, I'm sure, rift a lot of the dialogue because that's what he does and he's great at it. But I think they conceived the whole game and they did such a great job, but maybe I shouldn't even say this. But my one beef with it, it was like, because you're a clone Morty that keeps dying and then you go to a limbo and then you can push a button and get respawned, I was like, dude, why wasn't it a me-seek's? because then he could be destroyed or whatever fulfill his purpose and therefore die.

And then you're instead of limbo or hell or whatever, you're in the Meseeks box. And we could actually depict what that would look like, which could be, I would have loved to have pitched that. Because that could have been so cool. It could have been like a Doctor Who thing or like a Hellraiser, like, you know, just bizarre imagery of what a Meseeks box looks like, you know. But that's just me as a writer. of your episode. Yeah. I don't know, like, what, you know, what makes the most sense from a video game point of view, you know.

I mean, I imagine people want to be Morty, right? Like when they're playing a game. Well, but you're not, you know, you're still interacting with Rick and Morty. That's true. You're a clone, Morty, so you don't actually even talk, you know. Oh, yeah. And, but they did incorporate these things called you seeks, which are these me seeks that are involved. So me seeks are in the game, but I was just, that's just me putting my writer hat on, you know.

And I don't want to tell. anyone how to do their job, certainly. And I think those guys did a great job. But that was my one thing. I'm like, that would have been so cool. Because I think that what's fun about anytime you do content, like a video game, is being able to actually show other aspects that the show might not show. You know, the show is more, we've talked about how we'd bring back MISC.

And if we were, we do probably, we want to really, if we're going to bother you, we want to really explore a different aspect of it. But that's one way to do it right there, is show what the, inside of the music spots look like that would have been really cool fair enough um so uh so what else are you working on now that like rick and morty season three is all all written squared away um what's coming up for you just developing some stuff trying to get out get my own show you know that expression it's better to rain in hell than serve in heaven nope oh that's one of my favorite expressions it means that would you rather be a servant and

one of the best shows on TV, or would you rather be the charge of a show that nobody cared about? Oh. So what show that nobody cares about are you working? You know, I've got a few different ideas, you know, I'm trying to crack. Writing is hard, man. It's, it's, you know, it's, writing a pilot is, it's hard because it's just nothing, and then you have to figure out how to make it something, you know?

Coming aboard any TV show, I came aboard Rick and Morty after the pilot. So at least I sort of understood, we're still figuring out those characters, by the way, even to the, to the three season three. But there's something that you can start playing with, which means, oh, you know, like I love writing Morty when he's angry because it's just so funny to write him like really angry and pissed off at Rick. And, you know, that's because a lot of times he's not. He's early on, he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, sort of low status, you know, and now to actually put him in a high status position where he's like, give it reading Rick the Riot Act is fun. But you only, that's only fun because you're twisting the convention around. When you're trying to come up with something from scratch, it's like, what's the convention,

let alone how do you twist it? So, yeah, so that's a long way of saying that I'm just, you know, I'm developing a few different shows and seeing what sticks. Wow, that's a metaphor I have heard before. What's that? Yeah. That's a metaphor I have heard. Throwing a lot at the wall and seeing what sticks.

That's based on spaghetti. Oh, thanks, man. That's what sticks. if I learned one thing today. What about all your YouTube ideas? Oh, boy. Okay, so I want to start a YouTube channel. Well, honestly, here's the sincere answer,

because I don't have any ambitions to make a career out of YouTube. But what would be nice is that, you know, I'm starting to get those email requests about, hey, I'm right or what can I do? I'm like, I don't, I can't really give any advice because as I already laid out, It's so hyper-specific and right place, right time, and it is for everybody. But, you know, I don't know.

I was thinking about making videos, just sort of talking about different things. I like to live stream. And so just sort of just kind of having fun and not worrying about something being good enough to make money off of, which is that's what happens when you're developing a TV show from my perspective is like, is this going to sell? Is this going to make money? It's like, what if you just were creative and didn't have to worry about that? So, but the other thing I want to make videos is about climate change because I want to really figure out how I can like like a serious, well, maybe comedy, but like with a real purpose. Is that what we're saying?

To finally expose the myth that is climate change of that. It's a hoax and that the government is just trying to tax us all until, oh, sorry, I'm a climate change denier. No, that's good. I'm a flat earth guy. So go for it. Yeah, here's your pedestal. Well, you know, I, so I'm totally, that's my big issue.

I'm obsessed with it. And to be clear, I was joking. I'm obsessed with finding a solution to climate change, which starts with acknowledging that it's real. And so, but I'm like, I'll join these organizations and I'll go and I'll be like, you know, this is great. And I love to, you know, I love to table and volunteer in March. But like, is that really the most impactful use of my skill set? So I'll like watch some videos online that are anti-climate change. And I'm like, the ones that are pro climate change are usually pretty dry.

And I'm like, maybe I can make something somewhat entertaining. I don't know. You know, that's my little dream I have. All right. Using my communication skills and comedic abilities to do my little part to save this little blue dot. Well, this has been awesome. It was really great. You got everything you needed?

I think so. I mean, is there, like, are there any words of wisdom you want to share for people who aspire to be Rick and Morty type writers? But, like, or do you just not reply to those emails? You know, I'm not great at it. But I have said, I have replied to him a couple of times and said, because the problem is that, you know, like, I'll get a Facebook message or an Instagram message or a Twitter DM. And I'm like, I just forget and lose track of everything. But, you know, it's funny because I will say that I think now is such a weird time because Dan and Justin and I are all within the same sort of age range. And man, we grew up in a world where, you know, all we want.

wanted was superhero movies and sci-fi shows. And they were so few and far between when we were teenagers. And so now we're living in a world where like that's everything. And we're able to do a show where we can take all of that and just like run it through a filter and put it on TV. So if you're a genre fan, I can't tell if this is like the best time to be a genre writer, creator, aspiring or the worst time because it's like you could say it's the best time because people are more open to that now, but it almost might be the worst time because it's so saturated. Well, I think the core idea is actually really interesting, which is like make the stuff that you really want.

Because like, I mean, it's like basically your generation that's allowed that to happen, right? So it's like if you're- Thank you. We are pioneers. You're amazing, man. But you know what I mean, right? So it's like if you're 15 now, like you just make the stuff that like you really want to make and like, hopefully eventually people are into it.

Yeah, and that's, that really is that that's the number one advice, is just make the stuff that you want to watch. And you really, you have to just make it for an audience of one. And of course, hope that that ends up resonating with an audience of millions, because that's how you make money. But, but, but, you know, like, you know, and it's hard because it's like I, there's, there's ideas I have for shows. I'm like, this is the kind of show that I've never seen before, which is, means it's

terrifying because you're like, how do I explain this to somebody? But if I can execute it properly, then it's a show that's never been seen before. And that could be great. It could also be a total failure, but it could be great. At least it's a risk. I could pay off. So yeah, I think that that's the important thing is just making stuff just for yourself. And when we made season one of Rick and Morty, no one knew what the show was or cared

what the show was. So we're just like making ourselves laugh, you know. And then we had no clues. going to be, we're like, well, it's an adult swim show, so like it'll be as popular as an adult swim show it's going to be, you know, and somehow it's really struck a chord that I've, I'm just shocked by because, you know, the fact that the McNugget sauce became a thing, that was like ridiculous. The fact that, you know, I see, you know, like celebrities wearing Rick and Morty T-shirts.

I'm just like, what is going on? This is, it still feels like just, you know, a group of friends who have been doing this stuff. like I said, we've made stuff for just for free for ourselves. Yeah. You made a podcast, made a web series that nobody paid for that we're just like whatever. And, you know, and to actually make something that people see and, you know, we're making a living off of is pretty crazy. Have you been able to like discern why it has such an outsized impact for like just this random show? Yeah.

I, well, no, I've really tried to figure it out because I thought, well, I mean, I think Dan's vision. brilliant creator and writer. And so I think it's no surprise that anything he writes is going to resonate. At the same time, I thought, well, but clearly it's the combination of that and Justin's voice, which I remember from the second I saw Justin on camera, which was live action, not even animation back in 2004 at Channel 101. I was like, that guy's hilarious. His voice is hilarious.

I want to work with that guy. And so I thought, well, it's that combination of that Genesee of his voice, if I may, with Dan's writing. But then again, it's popular internationally in Russia and all these other countries where it's just dubbed over with not Justin the Boys. So, you know, it's like, is that? It's, it's, it's, it's, the Rick character is just one of those characters like, I don't know, like a Cartman or a can't think of other examples where you're just like,

that guy just, that guy fucking says the shit. I want to, I want to say it. I'm not smart enough or ballsy enough to say it. So it's really just a cathartic kind of character. and then it's a family show, so that appeals to people because I think it feels somewhat like a real family as opposed to maybe a family guy,

which you're like, I don't know, they're just characters bouncing off each other. This actually plays in real family dynamics, and then it's just also pretty to look at because the animators and the artists and the crew, finally I'm stopping, focusing on what the writers do. They do such a good job. The directors and everybody,

it just so, I watched the first episode of season three like so many times, not because I was so in love with the writing or the jokes, but I was like, man, this is just so visually beautiful. So it's just, it kind of covers a lot of demographic voting blocks, if you will. It was a candidate. It would do really well in the polls. I guess the last question then I have about that is, what's the deal with the peoples?

Like the hand-drawn, not circular? That's, that's absolutely just in the signature aesthetic. Because he, I think from the early days of his cartoons, he did. that. Oh, I haven't seen those. You never seen House of Cosbys? No. Oh, my God. Sorry. House of Cosby's was what put Justin Royland on the map. I'll never forget. It was January 2005, Channel 101. When that thing debuted, it blew the roof off the place, which is the opposite reaction of my show, Jack Everlasting, which kept the roof firmly on. In fact, you might even say it sucked the air out of the room.

But, but yeah, it's a, it's a show where a guy clones Bill Cosby and it's hilarious. All right.

So if people want to like pay attention to what you're up to, how can they follow you on the internet? Hit up at Ryan Ridley at Twitter. Ryan Ridley at Instagram.

I do do live streams pretty regularly. Oh, yeah. What is the comparison? Hold on. I bring to myself Chuck Lori of live streaming because I have about

10 to 15 live streaming shows I do. I do a show called I don't feel like writing today, which is a show that I do whenever I don't feel like writing. I do a show called Law and Abed, where my friend, Abed Gaith, who is the basis of the Abed Nadar character and community, talks to me about some of his legal situations, and I learn about the law that way. I do a show called Late Night with Ryan Ridley, which when I just can't sleep,

I just start, you know, live streaming. So anyway, that's a real fun time. And also I'll answer questions about Rick and Morty or your writing or whatever. I don't know. That's perfect. We shouldn't have even done this podcast. I should have just gotten you on a live stream. All right, man. Cool.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Done. All right. All right, thanks for listening. So if you want to learn more about Ryan or read a transcript to the show, you can check out blog.org.combinator.com, where we have posts for every episode of the podcast. And as always, please remember to subscribe and rate the show, which definitely helps us out. All right.

See you next week.