Yannis Pappas Hour - Paraphilias, Gender & Stockings with Dr. Debra Soh

Episode Date: September 19, 2021

Yanni welcomes Dr. Debra Soh, Canadian author, science columnist, political commentator, podcaster and former academic sex researcher for a long day. They discuss fetishes, Trans athletes, feminism, trans activism, childhood gender transitions and what parents are going thru, paraphilia, gynandromorphophilia, transvestitism, activist science, how sexuality is hard wired in the womb and other non controversial topics! The human brain and sexuality is wild and there should be no shame or judgement on anyone, just edification. Wild episode, enjoy!Debra Soh podcast: https://www.drdebrasoh.com/podcastSponsors:Manscaped:https://www.manscaped.comPromo code: fumesTalk spacehttps://www.talkspace.comPromo code: fumesRayconhttps://rayconglobal.com/pages/longdays?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=influencer&utm_campaign=/longdaysBox of awesomehttps://www.bespokepost.comPromo code: fumesFor an additional bonus episode every week and more Yantent, click here and support the show: https://www.patreon.com/yannilongdaysThe show goes out every Saturday night at 9 PM est. to youtube and podcast audio platforms but while it's being recorded the show goes LIVE on Yannis' Instagram!Come join in on the LONG DAY & Follow Yannis PappasInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/yannispappas/Twitter - https://twitter.com/yannispappasWebsite - https://www.yannispappascomedy.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Down as poppers, yeah. When you all talked up in the day before And the news online going on and on What's lying wrong and there's something up Now here comes a great kid you know you can trust From the true who's who To the news and cameras To the fake politics

And the propaganda Yeah, this kid's screwed in Got a lot to say Aw, shit It's about to be a long day It's a long day It's a long day What's up, everybody? Welcome to say. Aw, shit. It's about to be a long day. It's a long day. It's a long day. What's up, everybody?

Welcome to another episode of Long Days with Giannis Pappas. We have a special guest today. I am very excited to talk to her. Been a fan for a while, and we're going to talk about some controversial stuff and have some fun and do a little tightrope walk and walk the wire because this is an explosive issue right now. This is very explosive i'd like to welcome uh dr deborah so to the podcast all the way from the t dot drake's hometown toronto where she's trapped in prison by justin trudeau i thought you're gonna say justin bieber but. Thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely. It's an honor to have you. Yeah, there are two Justins right there. There are two Justins. Well, thank you for Justin Bieber. Thank you for Shania Twain, Jim Carrey. You guys do produce some talent up there in Canada. We do as well. Celine Dion, I must say.

Yeah. And Drake, of course. Drake's taking over the world. I didn't know you could really do Degrassi high and then become a rapper, but he made it happen. He's breaking boundaries. Yeah.

Are you a rap fan or no? I am. I am. I do. But I generally don't talk too much about the bands I like or people I admire because I don't want them to get canceled. So thank you very much for having me on and taking that risk.

That's right. You're kind of, you're like dynamite right now. Having you on is like, I'll get some trolls probably for this episode. Probably. Yeah, but it's worth it. It's worth it because you speak about this stuff so intelligently you've become a voice uh i guess on the other side because it seems like it's become um it's become the right thing to say to not say anything about uh this trans issue and i'm having

you on on an interesting time because we just had a uh m an mma fight and you're a fan of mma which i also find great because i'm a fan um where we just had that mma fight where there was a trans woman who transitioned i guess semi-recently because i saw pictures of him when he was he and he he was buff and he'd only trained MMA for like a year and then he fought a woman I guess in Portland in some ancillary pro league and she won I'm gonna you know you got to really dance around with these pronouns so I wanted to ask what your opinion is of trans athletes in combat sports. Right. So I did see that new story as well. And I do think sport can be about more than just competition. It can be about a sense of community.

It can be about belonging. And I totally understand that aspect. And I do support transitioning adults. I'm critical of this narrative that children should transition. And we can talk about that as well if you'd like. But with regard to elite sports and especially sports in which there is a chance that someone's going to be badly injured and especially with combat fighting, potentially killed, we need to be able to talk about this in a very rational and scientific way.

But instead, what we see is ideology continues to dominate in the conversation around sports. I mean, pretty much any area that has to do with gender and who's allowed to call themselves a woman. So I mean, when you look at the guidelines of the Association of Boxing Commissions, they require a fighter who has transitioned to female, who wants to fight in the female or the Association of Boxing Commissions, they require a fighter who has transitioned to female who wants to fight in the female or the women's division to have had their testes removed, removed and to be on cross sex hormones for at least two years. The question is, does that override any advantages that have potentially come along with undergoing male puberty. So male athletes are on average larger, stronger, faster. In this particular case, I thought it was quite poetic

that the fighter, she was wearing a t-shirt that says, end trans genocide. And she rear naked choked the other female competitor into submission, I believe. So I just, you know, I'm, I understand why people are very much adamant that trans people should be able to compete in the division that they like to compete in. I am in favor of trans, you know, equal rights and protections for trans people. But again, I don't think women should have to be subjugated to a lack of fairness or in some cases potentially bodily harm because people are afraid to speak honestly about this. Yeah, it's interesting because the controversy seems to be only in women's sports with trans women uh competing against women at a pro level

you never hear about trans men trying to compete with men uh in pro men's sports does that him is that because trans men would have a hard time competing with men like i just try to picture elliot page trying to cover odell beckham jr in the open field and it just seems like it would be a lot harder and does that thus prove that there are some advantages in competition especially you know at the pro level where it's relevant uh where it's most relevant. Doesn't that prove that there are some advantages to being born biologically a male? Absolutely. But what's wild is you will see in the media coverage, they will say, why is it that critics of trans athletes competing in the sex category that they want to compete in? Why is it critics like say Debra So are so fixated on trans women and they don't care so much about trans men? How come there's so much stigma against trans women? And they seem actually dumbfounded by it.

And I don't know what to say at that point, because I just think if you are that far removed from the conversation, I don't know that we can even have a proper discussion about it if you're so ideological about it, but definitely because a trans male athlete, there are some cases in which trans male athletes will beat male athletes who are not transgender, but they are definitely outliers. And that's because even if they are taking testosterone, they don't have that structural foundation that the average male athlete has. They don't have that structural foundation that the average male athlete has. Right. So this is an interesting point that I am learning about, and I think you can illuminate it further for me and for everybody else. So they test for, and again, we're only, it's funny, we're only talking about trans women and women's sports. They test for testosterone levels, and that seems to be the

only criteria if their testosterone levels are at a certain low level there can that's considered to be an equal playing field but you're saying there's that's kind of you're saying that's cherry picking one area whereas there's a lot of areas, like you said, with bone density, etc. Right, muscle mass, muscle strength, I mean, even being on cross sex hormones, it doesn't override that advantage. And even in terms of the cut off with say, testosterone, in many cases, trans athletes, trans female athletes are being allowed to compete with a testosterone level that is much, much higher than what's typically seen in elite female competitors. So in my book, The End of Gender, I go through the research showing this and the various guidelines.

So it's still not a fair playing ground. And I think people are just so terrified of potentially being called transphobic or bigoted. But you do see this narrative a lot that people will say, well, they're on cross-sex hormones, so that eliminates all advantages. But I mean, you can see if you physically look at some of these competitors and I'm not, I'm always very clear, I am not in favor of people mocking someone for their appearance or saying things that really, I mean, I think we can talk about this honestly and openly while also being sensitive to the fact that just because there are differences between trans women and women who are born women, that's not a reason to

add to the discrimination that trans people can face because they are different in that way. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I agree with absolutely absolutely and i agree with that i absolutely agree with that this is sort of a different conversation about this is almost uh would seem like a feminist cause and that that uh that sort of sets up my next question how do you feel like most women feel about this like are they silent are they being bullied? Is it split half and half? What's your sense about what the majority of women feel about trans women competing against women in pro sports? It probably depends on their political ideology more so than sex, because I do see men also very upset about the fact that trans female athletes are being allowed

to compete against non-transgender female athletes. But I would say most women are furious about this. And especially among female athletes, you have some woke female athletes who are saying, oh, we're totally fine with this. But my sense is they're fine with it because they've already made it and it doesn't affect them. So this is not just in the realm of sport. You see this with regard to women's spaces, things like locker rooms and bathrooms and prisons. And when women do speak up about this, they get called all kinds of names. I mean, in my book, I talk about how I used to really identify as feminist. I'm critical of feminism because there's an element of science denial to me that comes along with modern day feminism

that I'm not a fan of. But I do think it's quite ironic that you see women speaking up about women's rights and women's physical safety. And then you have these individuals shouting them down and calling them all kinds of horrible misogynistic names. And these individuals doing that are individuals who were born male. Is there, has ideology kind of creeped into the science? Because I've seen some scientists saying there are no differences. I've seen studies saying that now they're saying the brains are the brains of men and women are the same. Is this scientific or is this ideology or a fear of backlash? These are activist scientists who are pushing a very specific agenda, a very specific political agenda, and they have weaponized legitimate scientific journals as a way to legitimize their views. So something like talking about biologically based sex differences

in the brain, on average, they do exist. I've written extensively about this. This is also my book. And nowadays, when you look at the scientific papers that are coming out, and also the way that journalism reports on it, people just say that gender is a social construct when it's not. It absolutely isn't. If you know anything about the scientific research, you cannot say that with a straight face. So people who do say this, they know it's because it's going to help their careers. Maybe they think that they're doing something good for society by saying that gender is a social construct because that way maybe they could argue more so for treating men and women as equal but i would argue it's actually sexist to say that men women have to be the same as men in order to be given equal treatment i don't see why we can't say yes there are these on average differences

again that don't say anything about any individual person but that's not to say just because someone is stereotypically feminine or has more female typical interests that doesn't make her lesser than a man yeah and this issue of gender and sex this is the this is what they hang their hat on, right? So that part I get. They're saying, okay, your sex is what you're born, and then your gender is how you feel, and therefore when you transition, you're fulfilling what your gender is. But I can't help but notice that when they transition, they transition to the opposite sex,

and there's two of those, and they act like one of the two. So can you just explain, what's the difference between gender and sex from their standpoint? What are they claiming? Well, I'll start from a scientific perspective, and then I'll go to what's the various interpretations

that activists have taken. So from a scientific perspective, sex, biological sex is determined by gametes. So these are mature reproductive cells. So you have eggs, and you have sperm. So sex is binary. It is not a spectrum, it is not socially constructed. And then from their gender, gender identity refers to how someone feels about their sex. So for most people, their gender identity is in alignment with their birth sex. But for some people, including trans people and some intersex people, so intersex means that someone has a combination of both male and female characteristics or anatomy. So some people will identify as the opposite sex. So

someone might be born male and identify as female or vice versa. You see this broadening of the term transgender to refer to people who identify as a third gender now. So people who are non-binary, so they say that they identify as either both male and female or neither, or a little bit of one or the other. Sometimes they'll go by them pronouns. There's a whole other big long list, potential pronouns that they can go by or how they identify when they say that they're a third gender. But for most, I mean, historically trans people are people who identify and want to live as and transition to the opposite sex right so yeah sometimes it just seems like bad grammar when you say hey refer to me as them

you're like i only see one of you yeah i'm from new york so i probably call you use anyway can i use can i use use instead of them you might have to ask them first, honestly. But what's even more, I mean, it's just bizarre to me. Now in journalism, you will see this because some people identify as multiple pronouns. So they identify as she, they. So they'll be referred to as she at one part in the article and then they to a different part of the article. And you're reading it and you're thinking, wait a minute, who is this? And it takes a second to realize this is the same person as before, but there's no, there's no explicit explanation. And I'm also thinking, why can't you just, if you want to go by they, I will use, I will use the pronoun someone wants me to use, but it's just confusing.

Like you said, it's grammatically nonsensical. Is it, do you think it's also a good option just if they say to call me them just to walk away and say, okay, I'm not going to deal with that or I'm going to leave this party because it's not lit? Well, I think it can be a signal of, in some cases, it's people who are legitimately struggling with their gender and I do think they deserve compassion. But in a lot of cases, especially when it's older people, say who are not teenagers and who have developed in their identity they know who they are it's a way to signal that they are extreme left progressive and I'm a liberal um I feel that being on the left has really been co-opted by these fringe crazy people and they will use their gender identity or multiple pronouns as a way to signal

their politics and to signal that they're somehow really open-minded but it's really about I think narcissism and too much time on their hands yeah just for me as a comic it's just a little confusing if I'm doing crowd work and I say hey where are you from and they go who's you are you referring to us and I'm like you're sitting at a table alone and then it just becomes confusing and I feel like maybe we could do a modern day who's on first with that I said you know it's them but I'm talking to you what um so you're saying if I'm watching Real Housewives with my wife and I start to get into it and say, Erica knew about her husband stealing all that money. And I start to talk like that. I shouldn't transition. I should just wait. I'm just having a feminine moment.

I mean, you're free to do as you like. And if you'd like to transition, I fully support you in that. But I do find a lot of this ideology very regressive and sexist because just because a man has female typical interests, say, although I'm sure there'll be some women who will get mad. I personally love the Real Housewives franchise. But if there are, there might be some women who find that say, well, not all women like that. That's true. But anything that a stereotypically feminine or that women on average like or find interesting or the majority of people who like something are female if a man likes it doesn't mean that he's not a man he can still be a man and just happen to have this interest

right it's uh the human brain is definitely uh more complicated um than other species. We're obviously more advanced. It runs the gamut. The intelligence within the species, you're barely sliding into human kind of humans. You're just like, man, you just made it out of chimp. And then you got your genius. It's a long spectrum. It's definitely complicated.

Throughout history, we've seen this right like transgender people definitely have always been there like is that true is it because like you see with unix and i know that uh that wasn't a choice for a lot of the unix especially during nero's era um he he made you a unic but there are feminized men who thought of themselves always more as women, right? This isn't just a product of modernity. Right. I mean, this goes back eons. But I would say the more recent real spike in terms of the number of people who are identifying this way is due to something different. And some people might say that this is due to greater social acceptance. But what we're seeing is there is a segment of the population,

which is predominantly young women who are adolescent age women who have no previous history of gender dysphoria, who are very suddenly coming out as transgender, wanting to transition to the opposite sex or a third gender. In some cases, they are undergoing medical interventions, like taking testosterone, having double mastectomies, and they're not getting the support that they need. Clinicians are not able to do their work. I don't do clinical work anymore, I always want to say that, but clinicians in the field, they're not able to do a with their bodies having gone through puberty, which is very normal and especially normal going through puberty. I think everyone feels a little bit awkward and uncomfortable. And I mean, we, you can't say any of that that's considered

transphobic. And especially with clinicians, you have so-called conversion therapy bands. So conversion therapy for sexual orientation, I always want to be very clear, I don't support because sexual orientation can't be changed. So if someone is gay or bisexual, they can't be made to be straight. But what activists have done is they've managed to lump gender identity into these conversion therapy bans. And so now they're saying that gender identity is the same as sexual orientation when it's not, because someone who feels a certain way about their gender can change their mind. And we see this, especially with children. So again, clinicians now they can't do the work they need to do to determine what's best for their patients. So I think that's also

part of why we see this explosive number. I think it's something like one or 2% of high schoolers identify as transgender now, which is a lot of people. And I've heard in cases, some people, the classroom, teachers, parents will say in a given classroom, there'll be multiple trans boys. So in the adult population in the US, approximately 6,000 people are transgender. So the fact that in a given classroom, there's so many trans kids is just statistically so unlikely that it's more likely there's something else. There's a social contagion aspect that's happening. You will hear when you talk to, especially detransitioners, they will say a lot of this

is peer influenced. It's due to social media. Usually one child will come out as a trans boy, and then multiple friends within that friend group will also come out as transgender. And no one can say that. I mean, well, you can say it, but then when you do, you face a lot of backlash for it. I imagine there's a lot of parents out there that are that are struggling with this. I mean, I have a friend who was telling me that they have a friend who's going through this with their child. And he believes that it's social media and sort of trying to fit in. And because that's where their child learned of it by watching videos of people transitioning. So what you're saying is essentially that this is like a style it's like a fad it's like a

impress you know we all go through when we're when we're in at that impressionable age i mean i used to have three earrings and one over here i was in hip-hop um i used to wear nautica jackets is transitioning like wearing is it like the new nautica jacket? It probably. Yeah. Is it cool right now? Yeah, it is, unfortunately. And the thing is, with other trends in the past, I mean, you can get an ear piercing and you take it out as you get older when you change your mind. But if you are removing your breasts, if you are taking hormones, if you are even going as far as, say, getting a hysterectomy, having your ovaries removed or having genital surgery.

These are really serious medical interventions that are permanent. quickly is very concerning to me because children, I would say even into early adulthood, it takes a while to know who you are. And especially when young people are getting so much attention and validation for these decisions. And in many cases, if it's say someone who's struggling with other mental health issues, in many cases, these young people are on the autism spectrum. They have a history of sexual trauma. Some cases for those born female, they don't like being sexualized by society. Those are issues that are still going to be there after transitioning. And they're not going to feel better about those issues because transitioning doesn't really target the root cause. So it's not going to essentially help them feel better, which should be the goal of transition i

don't think people should transition just for the sake of it and i would i would think most trans people everyday trans people agree with me because i've received so much positive feedback from trans people in the community for my book which has been has been very relieving for me. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's just, I really feel for them because I think in a couple of years, it's really going to be devastating in terms of the number of young people we're going to see detransitioning from this. Um, what is, what are the things that are irreversible? and how young does that start is it the hormone blockers like what what can a person not recover if they start going involving science in their transition well even a social a social transition is being sold to parents as reversible because there are

no medical invention interventions involved so social transition is just when a child takes on a new name, new pronouns, maybe they will, they'll start to live as the opposite sex. So if you have a little boy who wants to live as a girl or identifies as female, she may grow her hair long, start wearing dresses, say have a new name and everyone in the child's life will refer to them as that new name and as female. But that social transition is associated, from a research perspective, it's associated with going on down the line and taking medical interventions. And it's also very difficult for a child who, as I said, is getting so much attention and praise for this decision to live as the opposite sex. In some cases, I mean, schools will throw, they'll have parties, they'll have assemblies to talk about this new gender identity of the child.

Some cases, these kids are very awkward and socially isolated, and now they're welcomed and celebrated by their peers. It's very difficult for a child to say, I've made a mistake, and actually I want to go back to living as, in this case, male, and you're going to call me by my original name and use male pronouns again. So, I mean, the detransitioners I've talked to, they've told me it's very, very shameful to have to detransition and people really underestimate the pressure that's on a child to continue on along this path. So, in terms of the guidelines, in terms of the interventions, puberty blockers are not supposed to be started until puberty. And then cross-sex hormones are supposed to be at the age of medical consent, which is typically 15 or 16 in the U S it can be sooner depending on

how the parents feel, if they can get doctors to agree to it, then top surgery. So double mastectomy is not supposed to be for two years. It's not supposed to be until two years post hormones, but again, it can be less than that. I've heard some people getting it in a year, under a year. So, I mean, when you have your breasts removed, that's, to me, that's a very huge decision. And it's very, very normal for young women to hate their bodies after going through puberty. I remember when I was a teenager, a lot of my female friends hated their breasts. That's unfortunately part of growing into your body. legal adulthood, age of legal adulthood. But again, it can be younger depending on if you can get parental consent and a doctor's note. So there's a lot of, I mean, parents are being told that if their child does not transition, they're at high risk of suicide, which is not true. And so understandably, parents are terrified. They think that if they don't facilitate this,

their child is at a high risk of suicide. And you hear this narrative, would you rather have a happy daughter or dead son? So or vice versa, would you rather have a happy son or dead daughter? So parents will think, of course, I want a happy child, not a dead child. So they will support the transition. But from a research perspective, all of the studies we have show that the vast majority of children with gender dysphoria. So this is a bit of a different population because you have kids who have gender dysphoria from pretty much from birth. So when they're very, very young versus rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is the group I was telling you

about previous, which is these young women who have this sudden onset of gender dysphoria, and that doesn't typically come until they've already gone through puberty. But for the early onset kids, so these are kids from a very, very young age, all the toys they want to play with tend to be the opposite sex toys. Their friends are of the opposite sex. Those kids are more likely to desist by puberty. So they go through puberty, their body starts changing, and they're actually become comfortable. And they're more likely to be gay when they grow up. Gentlemen, it is fall. Okay. For women, that means boots, weather, pumpkins, cinnamon, spice candles. For dudes, that means we're starting to head indoors a little bit. You know what that means when we head indoors? Means we're

subject to the heat of heaters, which means your crotch area is going to get fumed up. So you know what you got to do. You know the deal. This is a battle against fumes that I've partnered up with Manscaped for, and you must get yourself your Manscaped Lawnmower 4.0, brother. You get the whole package, the performance package 4.0. It's such a manly package. You get a nice little travel kit, so you can throw your toiletries in there, okay? Inside the travel kit, you'll find your Lawnmower 4.0. You'll find your Weed Whacker ear and nose hair trimmer. For Greeks, very important. Romanians, the like.

Okay, we're hairy kids. So you got to trim up. I use Manscaped to trim the ear hairs, nose hairs, okay? And I also, I Manscaped my dick is what I do. So here's what you got to do, bro. Go get yourself the Performance Package 4.0, which includes all this great stuff. The Weed Whacker, get your nose and ear trimmer. It has a 9,000 RPM motor powered 360 degree rotary dual blade system to provide proprietary skin safe technology which helps prevents nicks it helps prevent snags and tugs

in those delicate holes baby if you want to fuck if you want to manscape your asshole your business okay i never i never travel that side of town i'm good with just having the front manscape so i can mow down the fumes because when i have a nice, and I go hip hop, I go nice, clean fade on my piece. Okay. We're talking about a nice number one buzz. So there's no hair. And I, when I swap the balls, there's nothing butterscotch. But if I got a goddamn bush down there, smells like dead animals, my friend. So you have to manscape. It's the right thing to do for your lady to keep your balls and dick presentable. So with the performance package 4.0, you also get some nice free gifts. They throw in some nice manscape boxers, which I like to dance around in. And I told you about the travel bag. So here's what you do, my fans, fans of long days, to get 20% off and free shipping, you use the code FUMES at

manscaped.com. That's 20% off and free shipping with the code FUMES, manscaped.com. I mean, go take care of your fumare. As you guys know, I'm an anxious kid. I've been through a lot of trauma and I am always in need of therapy as we all are. It is the best way to deal with your problems to talk to a professional. The problem has always been setting up appointments, finding one. If you don't connect with that one, finding another one. That's where the internet has really helped and that is where the best in the business, the internet has really helped. And that is where the best in the business, Talkspace, have really taken it to a next level. I use Talkspace and I started using them when I had a lot of anxiety and some trauma from my experience with COVID, where I had it bad. And to be honest with you, I wish I had started before COVID so I was already going because it really got me over the hump.

It makes things so convenient and easy. When you're going through something, you just sign on to Talkspace.com. They match you up with a licensed therapist and you do your sessions right there on your phone, whatever your device, your computer, whatever. You do a FaceTime face-to-face with your therapist. They'd match you with a good one. If you don't like that person, you can switch.

It's absolutely amazing and helpful. So don't wait until you absolutely need a therapist. Go to therapy. This is affordable. You go to therapy in the privacy of your own home it can't be more convenient than that my friends so you're going all right yanni tell me what the deal is what's the dollars the deal is very easy guys go to talkspace.com and use the promo code FUMES and you will be matched with a licensed therapist and you will get $100 off. Okay, that's 100. That's three figures if you use the promo code

FUMES for my fans especially. It's an amazing experience. You get to send messages, receive messages from your therapist, talk person to person. It's just an absolute, incredible apparatus for you to deal with your mental health and to improve it. And that's something that we all need to do. And that's something you need to stay on top of to have a healthier, happier life. And I mean that. Talkspace.com promo code FUMES for $100 off with that promo code FUMES.

We're also brought to you today by Raycon. Now, these are high-tech, very fashionable, affordable earbuds. They are so comfortable. They fit in your ear. They look beautiful. You can't go wrong with a pair of Raycons. You Bluetooth it to your phone. You listen to your favorite podcast.

If you're not listening to long days with yannis pappas on your ray cons i mean what's the dollars really you know what i'm saying you want to just tune out the world and hear some tunes i'm not judging you maybe you like taylor swift okay i like a lot of good songs from taylor swift i hate to say it but it just is what it is. They have a new improved rubber look and feel and optimized gel tips for that perfect in-ear fit. They really do. They go right in there and the sound is absolutely amazing. You can do pure mode, balance mode, bass mode. If you listen to hip hop and you like a little thump, they're very high tech. So Raycons offer eight hours of playtime and a 32 hour battery life. You know what I'm saying? Eight hours of playtime is all

you need, bubba. If you're listening for 32 hours, God bless you. You got a job that you can listen to podcasts all day or you can listen to music all day. So either way, Raycons got you covered. And it comes with a 45-day happiness guarantee. So if you don't like your Raycons, yeah, within 45 days, send them back. But you will like your Raycons. They're amazing. They're great earbuds. So here's what you got to do, my friends and long days followers. You go to buyraycon.com slash fumes. That is buyraycon.com slash fumes to get 15% off your pair of Raycons. Very simple, guys. Go get yourself some affordable, fashionable earbuds right now. Box of Awesome, the perfect gift for you or a loved one, a friend, an acquaintance, someone you're buying a gift. It's a very unique and cool way to give somebody things that they'll

like. Instead of getting them one thing, get them a box of awesome. Do something different for a change. You know, box of awesome is brought to you by their partner bespoke post. They partnered up together to showcase emerging brands and you get to check all of the brands and their products and put them in a box of awesome as a gift for yourself or for other people. It's a fun, cool way to select things that you want and put them in your box of awesome. So it's very easy. It makes it fun too. You start out by taking a quiz. So if you know somebody and what they like, fill out the quiz based on the person you're getting the gift for. If you're getting it for yourself, which is what I did, okay, you fill out the things that you like. So you, it's very easy. You start, you go

to boxofawesome.com, you take this quiz, all right, and your answers will help them pick the right box of awesome for you. Very simple. They release new boxes every month across a ton of different categories and it's free to sign up. And you can skip a month or cancel any time. The cool thing is if you're on recurring every month, you get a new box of awesome. And each box only costs 45 bucks. That is takeout sushi one night, big fricking deal. Um, but with that $45 worth of box of awesome stuff, it's $70 worth of gear. So, you know, the more you get, it's like, that's what's so cool about box of awesome. You're getting a, uh, you're buying a bunch of things. So it's cheaper. You get 70 bucks worth of stuff for 45 bucks. No matter what you are into, my friends,

Box of Awesome has you covered from travel and outdoor gear to breezy summer styles, grooming goods, etc. Go see for yourself by going to Box of Awesome. And here's the deal. To get 20% off your first monthly box when you sign up at boxofawesome.com, all you got to do, all you got to do is enter the promo code FUMES. You know the deal. When you get to checkout, just put the code FUMES in.

That's boxofawesome.com, promo code FUMES for 20% off your first box. Go enjoy Box of awesome it's a great gift for you or for someone else wow this is you know it's a comedy podcast but i just want to just say earnestly that uh that's what makes your your work so important uh probably to parents who need to hear some of this stuff to make them feel better, especially on that point of, you know, would you rather have a dead kid or a transition kid? I mean, that's harsh.

Why are trans activists doing that? Why is it so important to trans activists that somebody else's kid transition? is it because of their own experience is it an overreach like i'm just trying to get behind what you may feel is the psychology and or the will for that why um why are they trying to push that message out there across the board for every kid and i have to say that trans activists do not speak for the majority of trans people. Everyday trans people are lovely people. They just want to transition and get on with their life and not be bothered about it. They don't want their transition

to be the single most important defining factor of who they are. So the activists are a very select segment of trans people and even among activists not all of them are totally unhinged and aggressive but of the ones who are let me just say but that that's where the message is coming from right the suicide or transition okay yeah yeah well it's also coming from you know medical professionals they will say this. They may genuinely believe it in some cases, but I think especially with the activism, the activism has just gone so extreme at this point that I do think for those activists who are really pushing this, they are probably operating from, I mean,

they will speak about their personal experiences and the discrimination they faced and how if they had transitioned at a younger age, that that would have made life easier for them. And I don't doubt that. But the thing is, when it comes to say trans individuals who were born male identifies female, there are two subtypes. So I go about this and go, I talk about this in greater detail in the end of gender, but you have one subset who are the early onset gender dysphoric kids. So like I said, they're from birth, they are gender atypical.

So they've been like girls pretty much since the day they were born. And then you have this other subset who are actually, they find it sexually arousing, the idea of becoming a woman, and they don't start really feeling that way until the onset of puberty. And the contrast between these two subtypes is very, very stark. So the second subtype is referred to as autogynephilia, which is a paraphilia. So my research expertise, one of my areas of expertise when I was in academia was paraphilias, which are unusual sexual interests. And so autogynephilia is a paraphilia that refers to love of oneself as a woman. So this idea, they find it sexually arousing to have a woman's body or to do things that women

do. And I say, listen, power to you, no judgment there. And for people with autogynephilia who, if they decide to transition, that's their business. And I support them in that decision as well. But what you will see with the activists is you will have activists of this second subtype who claim that they were, they project themselves onto the first subtype and say they were like these kids when they're quite different. And so the way that clinicians should approach treatment is very different because again, most of these kids are going to outgrow it. They are not the same as these individuals who don't experience their gender disorder until puberty and who are now adults and are looking back on their

childhood with probably a bit of a revisionistic lens, if that makes sense. It does make sense. Wow. What's the solution? It does make sense. Wow. What's the solution? What is the solution? Is it a standard law that you can't do these things until you're a certain age or you have to be of this subset? Like, how can you tell someone which subset they are. I mean, is there a solution to this or is it just important for people to hear your side, for parents to read your books and sort of understand it so they can help their kid who's going through it on an individual basis? Ideally, I think everyone should just be allowed to, not everyone should be allowed to have a voice, but people who know what they're talking about should be allowed to have a voice and let parents make that determination. Although in an ideal world, I think scientific and medical organizations should be driven by science as opposed to ideology and activism. ideology and activism. And so parents could place more faith in those organizations in terms of the decisions they make for their child. But we're definitely not there

right now. Everything is basically activist driven. So I know that there are some laws coming into place. I believe Arkansas was the first state to ban transitioning for minors under 18. At this stage, I think that's really what it's going to take in order to protect these kids. And I understand because for kids who would benefit from transition 18 may seem like it's too late, but there needs to be some sort of formal pushback because the activism has just gone so far at this point that all good clinicians either just avoid this topic altogether. They just don't want anything to do with it. In Canada, we have a bill that's about to go into law that criminalizes so-called conversion therapy for gender identity. So you can face up to five years in prison if you question someone's gender. So it's gotten really bad. How has this happened? How has activism

become such a part and in some way usurp the science? Well, because the activists are so aggressive, I think a lot of people are understandably afraid of them and they're they feel that intimidation it's real and people have faced serious repercussions to their professional reputations um in terms of their personal lives also i mean there are no boundaries in terms of when the activists go after you they will attack you any way possible. Most people obviously don't want to go through that. They don't want to get fired.

They don't want to. I mean, cancel culture, I do think, is a real thing. It happens. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're talking to a comedian, so yeah. You know. I know, yeah. And I mean, I say with my book, so The End of Gender came out a year ago. My paperback just came out. I'm very proud of that. And it's wild to me how hard the activists have pushed to

have my book censored. I mean, in some cases, retailers have stopped selling it because of that. They've just permanently pulled it because they said, oh, I guess this is hateful because people say it's hateful. Anyone who's actually read my book tells me, wow, it's so compassionate. I don't understand why people are upset with you. And I mean, I think that's where we are. The activists could not be bothered to actually listen to or read any of the things that people like me say. I feel in some ways happy to demonize anyone who wants to interject with any amount of nuance into this conversation because we are just inconvenient to their narrative and to their activism. And we're going to stand in the way, even if it's very, I mean, I feel I'm very empathic on this issue, but what it comes down to at the end of the day is them pushing their agenda. The way that they've pushed us into education, I have to say they've been really savvy and doing that because kids don't know any better. In a lot of cases, parents have

no idea this is what their kids are being taught in school, and they're being taught this nonsense. So it's partially that and then also that legitimate scientific experts because they're afraid and they're also really busy doing their research because being a research scientist is extremely competitive. And if you're in a university setting, you also have all this other nonsense going on in terms of the administration and all the diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives that are happening. And you don't want to be, you're going to be left to your own devices if you speak up against any of this, the institution is not going to protect you. So that combined is why we are where we are

uh a majority of why you are writing this stuff is because you speak to detransitioners all the time right um and you you are told how they feel by that how they felt looking back retrospect the regret the regrets etc what percentage of transgender people detransition is it a lot the current statistic we have is two percent but this was in adults and this was more than 10 years ago so it doesn't take into account this newer wave that we're seeing of young women or people born female who are very quickly transitioning. I don't doubt it's going to be much higher than that. But what's really infuriating is that the media, and I say this as a journalist, I'm really disappointed in the way that my profession has handled this issue, because for the most part, left-leaning media outlets pretend like detransitioners don't exist,

or they will say, oh, there was that one case of Kirabel. So this one young woman in the UK, she sued the clinic that treated her. She won, though I think that case is currently being appealed. And she's a born male, sorry, born female, identified as male, underwent medical transition, and changed her mind. So now she lives as female again, but she's left with these permanent changes from having undergone those interventions. And she says, I wish that they had challenged me more. I wish that we had talked about what was going on with me psychologically. So they might, they might acknowledge her, thankfully, but they'll pretend that everybody else doesn't exist or that the people who are detransitioning never really had gender dysphoria or that it's such a small percentage of people that it doesn't count. And I understand to some extent, because I think there's a fear that if we acknowledge that people do change their minds about transition, or if we acknowledge that the majority of kids who say they want to live as

the opposite sex actually grew up to not feel that way and just be happy gay adults, that that could be used to say no one should be able to transition at all. But by ignoring this, it's really doing a disservice to people who are struggling. And so you, you have also said that sexuality is innate, right? It's based on the level of testosterone you're exposed to in the womb or something like that. Yes. So higher levels of testosterone are associated with more male typical interests and behaviors and also sexual interest in women. So you'll see this regardless of whether someone is male or female. So the majority of men are exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb and they

are sexually attracted to women. And you will see a similar thing, a similar trend among lesbian women. So studies have shown that for girls who are exposed to higher than usual levels of testosterone, they tend to be gender atypical when they're born. And they're more likely to be lesbian when they grow up. Martina Navratilova. They just become Martina Navratilova. Well, I'm not sure about her specifically, but on average speaking.

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everything is very reasonable. Thank you. All the things that you're saying are very reasonable and also empathetic. I mean, you're sitting here talking about how gay people are who they are and trans people are who they are. You're exploring the nuance in transitioning

as a young person and how regretful that can be and how there needs to be some standard to protect children from, you know, making these decisions that cannot be undone because they're developing. Like, you know, I didn't find myself till I was 40. So I get it. I get it now before you. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know if I'm still there. I mean, I, I may transition tomorrow. Who knows? You know, if I keep watching real house where I might, I may just get a little too curious and be like, you know what? I want to really feel what it's like to really enjoy this show the way my wife does because she gets this like glow over her face

and she's just like, I call it, it's like women's meth. They just kind of look calm. And so, but do you support transitioning if you're a fading, your relevancy is fading as a celebrity and you can have a resurgence in your career in Hollywood. So if you're Caitlyn Jenner and you're Bruce

and you're riding the coattails of all the Kardashians and you're like, you wake up one morning and you're like, you know what, I know how I can supersede all these bitches, become one. Do you support that as a career move also to hide the fact that he killed someone because caitlin didn't kill that person in the car i think bruce did but bruce doesn't exist anymore genius you don't have to comment on that earnestly no no I mean, you're really funny. I will say, you know, I think Caitlin, I have respect for her. I, because this is so trendy. I mean, I would say nowadays non-binary is the thing. It seems like everyone left, right? No matter what arena of entertainment you're in. Everybody's coming out as non-binary. And I remember there was a period of a couple weeks in which it seemed like every single celebrity was coming out as non-binary.

And I thought, what on earth is this? So I think in that case, yeah, probably it's about getting attention and getting people to have a renewed interest in you and whatever project you are promoting. to have a renewed interest in you and whatever project you are promoting. So that I think is really doing, I just, I just wish because they are so influential on young people and you're laughing because of how carefully I'm choosing my words. No, no, no. I'm laughing about my neck, what my next question is going to be. I'm listening to you and thinking of the next question at the same time. I'm sorry because what what's coming? Yeah, you're gonna like what's coming next. Okay. But I just think for young people who look up to them, because it does, it says to them that this is, I hate to say it, but legitimate when it's not legitimate. From a scientific perspective,

I say identify however you want, whatever, however you want to build your brand, that's your business. But when it starts to influence how young people are making decisions in their lives that could affect them permanently, then I, then I need to speak up about it. Right. Um, but let me ask you this question. Robin, they just came out that Robin's gay. Batman's Robin. What do you think about, so Batman being gay, I'm sorry, Robin's gay. When the next Batman comes out, what do you think about Elliot Page playing Robin? I think that's a perfect role for him.

I just always assumed that Batman and Robin were gay. Yeah, like Bert and Ernie. That's a new thing. and Robin were gay was this yeah it's yeah like Bert and Ernie thing um I mean I don't know much about Elliot so I guess if he would like to do that then good for him I don't see why not yeah it would be I think uh he's definitely going to be the front runner if I'm Hollywood I'm thinking how do we get a lot of attention to this movie you know uh what was ellen page was the name before her career kind of went a little you know went a little quiet but now she's elliot page she's got a six-pack superhero robin's gay i think it's perfect

that's what i'm saying um what do you think eventually happens in sports do you think eventually there's an all trans league or um you know what do we do with these trans women who want to compete um compete in sports with women as women um you know it's cruel to say hey you can't compete so do you have an opinion on what maybe a solution would be there like maybe an all trans league or something or yeah i think that would be ideal uh but i have a feeling trans activists would not be in favor of that because that would not be considered true quote-unquote equality in that by differentiating trans athletes from non-trans athletes that would be considered discriminatory but i i don't really know how else we could address it because currently it's based

solely in self-identification so uh there are some cases in which it depends on the state, but competitors can compete in say high school or college sports based purely on self-identification. No medical interventions are necessary at all. So you'll see in some cases, athletes that were competing in male sports and and then deciding the next year, they want to compete in female sports. And then they're just blowing their competition out of the water. So I don't think most trans female athletes are doing that with the goal of having an unfair advantage. But the fact that we can't even talk about that is a problem. Yeah, I mean, that is clearly I mean, I don't know if someone advocates for that. I mean, that's just clearly ridiculous, you know, to just the identification without science,

without modern science, because this is all a consequence of modern science, right? Without modern science, medical technology, whatever you want to call it, hormone blockers, all this stuff, what would, trans people would just be feminized as feminized versions of the sex they were born, right? They would just kind of be, they would live as women, act as women, right? But they wouldn't be able to present as accurately from the outside. I'm trying to figure out the best way to say this.

They wouldn't look like hot chicks, right? As much. They wouldn't have the secondary sex characteristics that would be associated with female if they're born male. So, yeah, I think if none of this technology existed, that you would have individuals who were born male who would be more feminine in their gender expression. So gender expression is how you express the way you feel about your gender. So say for most men who are male typical, they'll express it. And well, being more masculine, I guess wearing more male typical clothes, just as a woman who is more masculine would wear, say, men's clothing. I have a male haircut, short hair. So I guess they would express themselves as best they could as the opposite sex.

And then we wouldn't have this issue. So this is really like a, this is really like a, an issue that has to do with modernity, much like the internet. How do we, how do we deal with this new thing that's possible because of technology? That's very interesting. So now let's have some fun. When I was a kid, when I was a kid, I used to dress up in my mom's stockings and that turned me on. And then I got like attracted to stockings for a while. And then when women would wear stockings, I was into that. And then that left. And then I wasn wasn't as then i got attracted to other stuff am i a paraphalic am i is do i suffer from paraphalilia a paraphilia um usually paraphilia so that's actually very common in terms of um people can have fetishes to specific objects. So stockings is one that's pretty common among men.

So paraphilia, they are biological. So previously they were believed to be learned. So it's very common to hear that people have an experience with an object or a thing or a certain experience when they're very young and that stays with them and that eventually is expressed sexually as when they reach puberty. I think it's a combination of that plus a biological underpinning that is somehow more conducive to finding unusual things sexually interesting. Because when you look at it from an evolutionary perspective,

you would wonder why is it that people find something that they can't procreate with sexually arousing. But paraphilias usually are with someone from a young age and they don't change. So if someone is really into whatever it is they're into, that is the thing that does it for them and it's going to be like that for life and they can't change it. So some of the more common paraphilias, there's a difference also between a paraphilia and a paraphilic disorder because a paraphilic disorder is one that harms people. And so the ones that are recognized, say, when you look at it from a mental health perspective and the ones that are categorized as prominent disorders are something like exhibitionism. So this is flashing, people expose themselves, and they find that sexually gratifying, because obviously, this can be very shocking and unpleasant for people who see this.

But does that answer your question? It's Yeah, it does answer the question. Totally answers the question. Yeah. Totally totally answers it so you're saying like uh there's there's a difference between a fetish uh having different fetishes getting attracted to objects as you develop and having uh it's hard to pronounce periphilia or paraphilia paraphilia is the overarching term yeah and then a fetish is actually a type of paraphilia fetish refers to a sexual preference for a particular object or body part. But people usually say when they say fetish, more generally, people are referring to paraphilias. But technically speaking, the term is paraphilia. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. I guess I have a few of those because I also like to put a foot in my mouth. Yeah. So what can you do? That's very common. Foot fetish. Yeah.

Yeah. I plug it in like a pacifier so yeah i find women's feet attractive not men's feet so that means i'm straight ish right what is it you find attractive about women's feet i always like to hear the rationale behind i miss doing this this is what i would do in my research days yeah no research me i need the help um it's uh it's the there's so much femininity in it i don't know it's uh like i like when they're painted i like when the the the there's a nice manicure there just seems to be so much femininity in the foot i like i i'm a leg guy so i like the way it leads to, like, the leg kind of, and ankle leads

to the foot, not saying that Hillary Clinton, you know, you know, I prefer a little bit more contour, but, you know, I could over, you know, if you got cankles, I can deal with it, I'm just saying it's not my preference, I used to like an ankle bracelet, I've, for some reason, an ankle bracelet. I've saw for some reason, an ankle bracelet on the, um, on the ankle, like it was attractive to me. Um, cause it like, I don't know, brought my attention to that area or it just looked hot. I can't really explain it. I'm trying to convince my wife to get an ankle bracelet, but she says that it's trashy. What can you do? She's the daughter of a doctor. I can't get her to, to trash it down for me. I don't see it as that trashy. Um, but it's the, the, the shape of a woman is so beautiful to me. So as that trashy. Um, but it's the, the, the shape of a

woman is so beautiful to me. So may, I don't know, maybe it's the, the leading to the, to the, to the foot. Like, for example, like I enjoy, I enjoy pus, pus, pus. I enjoyed a pus, pus. I enjoy a vagina, but I also like everything that leads to it. Like, I don't like the porn where they just like open it up and it looks like you're dissecting a frog. I'm not, I'm not into, I don't, I don't need a closeup shot of the whole. I want to see the whole women, the whole femininity. I don't know. It's something about the aura of femininity that maybe is captured in the foot or maybe I should have been a podiatrist.

Maybe. I mean, the foot fetishes are so. And especially, I don't know, well, I'm sure your audience doesn't care if I'm graphic about this, but foot jobs are also very common. I don't want to ask you what you're into, but that's another common thing for people who are into foot fetishes, which I'm very vanilla. And this always shocks people. They say, how could you study sexual kinks and be vanilla? But I am. I just find it super fascinating. So when I talk about, talk about this stuff, I, there's always a part of me that's like, I really, I really want to understand what it is that people like about it. Yeah. I'm not so much into the extreme stuff.

Like I don't sniff pumps and stuff like that. I don't sniff sneakers. Uh, I don't collect them. I don't, I don't steal them. Um, but collect them. I don't steal them. But I do always glance down at the feet, and it is something that's attractive to me. And I will plug it in if I'm having sex. I'll just plug it in sometimes into the mouth. You know, I'll charge up. But it's appealing to me, but it's not extreme there.

My style, I'm a little bit more of a softer lover, which makes me think maybe I have some feminine traits. Cause I like a slower, softer stroke. Maybe it's because my piece isn't huge. So I, I don't know, but I'm not into hard or rough stuff. I'm more of like a romantic sometimes girls. Yeah. Girls have actually told me like, kick it up a notch. They've like been disappointed. Like I've've actually that happens more than slow it down girls are like kick it up a notch you know we just met tonight why are you stroking my face and we you know some you know they want me to kick it up and one girl asked me to hit her and I just was not I just was like I can't do it so that's me I was gonna say that's good for you though especially post me too i mean i've

been critical of me too i think the net benefits of me too are positive overall but definitely consent is such a huge thing and and i hear all kinds of mixed things from especially young people when it comes to their sexual experiences where young and women will say that they will have men being very violent, roughing them up in the bedroom. And so I say the better approach to take is be softer, be more gentle until you know somebody just to be sure. Even if someone says they're into that, you don't really know if they, are they saying that because they're trying to please you and make you happy? Yeah. Yeah. And also foreplay is big, right? Just if you can lick the puss puss for until she's finished and then proceed, which is something that they should really teach in class

more. I mean, if we weren't, if we didn't have this repressed Protestant thing, I think there'd be a lot less problems in society because sex is a healthy thing. We got to be a little bit more like the French. No, I absolutely. yeah. I mean, my wife's Sicilian, so I try to tell her I should be able to have a gumar to respect her culture. She's not a fan of that. You know what a gumar is? I don't. A gumar in Italian culture is a mistress. They call it a gumar. Okay. I had a feeling. Yeah. So I say, look, I'm just trying to respect your culture. And she gets mad and she says, I'm not Italian. But I said, I married Italian.

I'm trying to respect your culture. We live in the 21st century. Everyone has to respect cultures. And I don't want to appropriate it because that may be appropriation. But I like to look at it as paying homage to the Italian culture. But she's not, she doesn't dig it. She's not buying it. to the Italian culture, but she's not, she doesn't dig it. She's not buying it. I would say your point about cunnilingus is a very effective way to increase the likelihood that a woman is going

to have an orgasm. I did do an episode on my podcast. So my podcast is called the Dr. Debra podcast. I talked to renowned sex therapists about ways to increase women's orgasms. And so that's definitely one way in it. And also just overall, more focus on the clitoris, because I think there's a real emphasis, especially with heterosexual sex, for it to be on intercourse. So penis and vagina sex, but the clitoris is a big part in terms of female orgasm. Yeah, it just you got to, you got to strengthen, there should be like uh some sort of way to strengthen the jaw on guys exercise yeah like lesbians should lead a class for guys because they know what they're doing the best i think um and just to like find the clit and then just be

able to keep your mouth open and strengthen the drug because it can get a little tiring. You know, let me ask you this question I find interesting. So, I mean, we could do this for so long. I don't want to keep you all day, but because I have so many questions. You're so intelligent. Most straight women that I talk to, I would say damn near 100% of the women I've been through, you know, not to brag, but I i've been through you know not to brag but i've been

with you know with a few um they all masturbate to lesbian porn but they're straight so what's the deal with that as jerry would say i i think it's because women female sexuality is on average more flexible than male sexuality so men if they are into women they're really into women not to men if they're into men they're really into men not into women whereas women there's a disconnect between what women find um sexually arousing and what their bodies will respond to so women may be subjectively into, say, men, but their body will be turned on by, say, looking at lesbian porn, as you mentioned. So I think part of it is also that, I mean, so the weird thing is I actually don't look at porn myself. For my research, I would look at a lot of porn because this is what I was doing with my fMRI study.

I was showing people pornography in the scanner to look at their brain activation. But so I've, I've seen a lot of I'm just thinking, I think because it is more gentle, and it's not, because a lot of pornography is very, is very much from a male perspective. So that can turn off women a bit because it is very much about more so the the actual active intercourse as opposed to the context and the storyline um but that i mean that's that plays out too in terms of sex differences because for women especially it's important for them to know it's okay if it takes you a little bit longer to get turned on with a male partner like you said foreplay is very important and it's okay to ask for that and to not feel like your your body needs to respond in the way that a man's body responds and that when men are turned on they're instantly

turned on and they're ready to go it would it help if pornography was a little bit more realistic in that way like if every scene didn't treat a woman's face like a construction boot after she was doing sheet rock I mean like there's not many women I've met who've uh enjoyed you know I I hope my wife doesn't get to this point but I tried to do that to my wife once and she cried so I mean I hope she doesn't get to that point. But do you think it would be better if porno was more like a guy just going down on a woman for three hours and then having sex, like just a little bit more realistic

and not as like, you know, violent? And, you know, why does the denouement of every porn scene have to be a guy coming on a girl's face? I mean, that seems like that doesn't happen in real life that much. I mean, it could, but I think for some people, I mean, men also on average are more visual than women, which some people consider that to be stereotype. But I think we can acknowledge these differences. It's not a justification for sexism

or bad behavior, but men, because they are on average more visual and there's a higher interest in sexual novelty. So having many different partners over time, I think that speaks to why pornography is more interesting or on average is consumed more so by men than women. Although it is growing among women. I think that could help. But I think for some people, it's also the context in terms of how porn is made. One of my podcast episodes, actually, I talked to Eva Lovia. I know she was a guest on your show. That was actually my first episode. She was amazing talking about her experiences in the porn industry and what people should

think about before they start selling their nudes. So I think that, I mean, that could help, but I still think there will be this on average difference that pornography will be more, more so interesting to men than women overall. Right. Two more things I'm very interested in. First one, just to get earnest again for a second, do they, have they done brain scans of uh trans individuals and are those are the brains different more similar to the gender of their identity than uh normal heterosexual cisgendered person they have done brain imaging studies but the thing is, the individuals who, so gender identity was conflated with or confounded

with sexual orientation in these studies. So all the people who took part in these studies, so they were transgender, but they were also attracted to people who shared their birth sex. So if it's a, say a study that looks at trans women, so people born male, identify as female, they were attracted to men. So there's a large research literature showing that sexual orientation is very much hardwired in the brain. And so the brain network that is activated when straight people are turned on is the same brain network that's activated when gay people are turned on. And so because there is this difference associated with sexual orientation, when they were scanning these trans people, it's not clear if the differences they're seeing between the trans people and the non-trans people are due to them being transgender, or if it's due to them being

attracted to people who share their birth sex. But people don't talk about that distinction when they talk about the brain imaging studies. They just say, oh, brain imaging studies have shown that there is a neural correlate that's associated with being trans. And that's not true. And then also if you look at autogynephilia, so there was one study that looked at individuals with autogynephilia. So again, born male identifies female and they find it sexually arousing to be the thought of being female. They found brain differences between autogynephilia people and men who do not have autogynephilia, which it feels a bit insensitive to be comparing them to men because some of them are not men. they identify as female or they were born male but they identify as female but anyway the brain regions that are different are not in regions that differ between men and women they're different brain regions so it speaks to the

fact that their feeling of being female is due to something other than gender identity right so you're just you're just stating the facts of what was seen and i I get where that could cause some controversy because what you're, what you're suggesting is there, there may be an element of choice there where a sexuality, there's not an element of choice that's scientifically proven through research. And what you're saying is here, it's not clear whether it's the brain imaging is, uh, is displaying, uh uh sexuality or orientation quote-unquote right right and i think also what was i going to say about that i i think obviously because there's either p either activists hate biology and they hate brain explanations for things because they find them dangerous and threatening or they just don't understand it and couldn't be bothered to read the research. Or they double down and hang on to that as somehow fitting their particular

agenda without talking about the caveats that come along with that and things that we can and can't say about it. There needs to be more research, but in this climate, unfortunately, I don't think it's really going to be possible to do objective research. Every study that is published now is going to have to be in agreement with trans ideology. Otherwise, it's not going to get published. Well, that's why your voice is so important. J. Edgar Hoover, he was a paraphernalia. He was an auto-Migalikuk. He was an auto-Gonellia.

He wore women's underwear. Is that right? was that it yeah he liked to wire tap mlk while he was in pumps and panties okay so he hit it yeah but he was like a cross dresser in private he was probably doing it because it turned him on right right so that's transvestite fetishism so that's and this is the other thing that is very controversial because there is a bit of a common thread between transvestite fetishism for some people and the decision to transition. I love that I can just say this stuff on your podcast and I don't have to. Oh, hell yeah. We're dressed down. No suits here.

You know, you know what comes along with having me on. I know. And I'm, I'm, I i'm i'm welcoming of it the human this is no other species has this right i know that the bonobo chimps are kind of they're fluid with their sexuality meaning they had there's homosexuality there and maybe there's some uh correlation with how peaceful they can be for the most part i know they can get a little violent but they fuck a lot supposedly bonobops, one of our two closest ancestors, not ancestors, but we share an ancestor,

relative, I should say. But we're the only species that has fetishes and autogafillialia and gamacolia, all those things. We're the only species

that we know of, that experiences it. There's no turtles who are're the only species that we know of, right? That experiences like, there's no turtles who are like, I identify as the queen now, right? There's no turtles who just want to transition. Not that I know of, but let me think. I'm thinking something interesting that I can follow up with that because I would say, because we have the frontal lobes, I mean, we have inhibition that animals do not have. And so as a result of it, the way that this is what I find fascinating is that the sexual targets can be so different among people. And yeah, you know, one, one actually paraphilia that

you might find interesting is something called ganandromorphophilia. So this is actually a sexual preference for transgender women. So this I talk about in my book as well. And so this is another one that's totally taboo that you're not supposed to talk about. But it's very, very common. I don't think there should be any shame about it. Same with any paraphernalia. I say as long as it's consensual, it's no one's place to judge. And yeah, I mean, that feeds into our earlier discussion about sexual orientation. And just, again, if someone is attracted to a trans woman, by and large, and you know that's fine my only issue is when

it's say lesbian women who say you know what i'm attracted to women but i don't um don't like penises and because you have some trans women who say well you're attracted to women so you should be into me even though i have a penis and that's not fair. So the trans men that are attracted, I mean, the men, the men that are the straight men that are attracted to trans women, is that a byproduct of the porn industry? Because a lot of those women are uncomfortable with their, with not being post-op, right? They're just doing it because it's become a lucrative genre in porn. So is it, is it an illusion? Because I watched this, I guess they were scientists in Canada, maybe. I watched this video where they were, they did this TED talk where they said, it's the, some evolutionary need where like, actually a hard dick is a little erotic

to a straight man because of it symbolizes competition with another dick or something like that and dicks are shaped this way because they scoop out the sperm of a previous

previous guy who fucked a female yeah yeah I'm putting it in layman's terms, which is just basically trying to, I'm trying to piece this together as a stupid person. So they were saying actually like the most searched for thing

in porn for straight guys is big dicks. Like that's why all the guys have big dicks because guys won't get turned on by a little dicked guy banging a girl because they like to see big dicks subconsciously or something like that. So the trans porn kind of takes all these messages of big dick, hot chick, and just mess like flips them around. And then you have that forbidden thing. And is that why straight guys are in it? Because it's a product of the porn industry's illusion or is it real i i tend not to think that environment or um

cultural cues play that much of a role in terms of influencing sexuality when when there's a more parsimonious or a better evolutionary explanation that makes sense so So when it comes, as you were talking about with the other penis being evident, so it's a sperm competition cue. So evolutionarily speaking, yeah, if a man, historically speaking, if you're competing with other men for a woman, there's something about the penis that triggers in men, you know, that competition and also a higher level of sperm to actually be in the ejaculate when he ejaculates. So and like you're saying, yeah, with the penis, it's believed to be shaped in that way to scoop out previous partners insemination. So in terms of porn, I mean, I don't I don't really think that porn creates this in men. I don't, I don't really think that porn creates this in men. I think that it taps into something that's evolutionarily wired in men. And that's why it is so, uh, I don't know if, I'm not sure if enjoyable is the right word, but it, it, it works. That's why it works. And that's why

men do find it enjoyable. Well, that's, that is such a like very rational and a refreshing thing to hear that you favor things that are like hardwired in us and that have an evolutionary explanation because we are, we are evolved animal, you know, we're evolved chimps. We are animals like the rest of the animals. And so everything has a reason based in, in, uh, biology and science. And,

um, and, uh, it's very progressive to hear that you believe, not believe you're going on the evidence that sexuality is hardwired and all these things are hardwired and people shouldn't have shame. And if people want to transition, uh,

you know, that's their business as long as they're of a certain age. And, and, and what you're concerned about is obviously children and, and things that are irreversible and how they should think that out, et cetera, age of consent for that. This is all very reasonable, rational, and compassionate stuff. So I commend you for being a voice on the other side of what has become cultish. You can't question it. You can't explore. You can't even explore these detransitioners, their stories, like you're saying, they're being erased, especially in the media and things like that. And this is such an emotional and difficult issue for parents and for the people going through

it. And you approach it with such compassion and research-based thought that it's to be commended, especially in this environment where you face such backlash. So you're very courageous to me, and people should go read your books. They should listen to your podcast. And maybe if they've listened to your podcast, they get a better sense of you and find out why you're so vanilla in the bedroom. I mean, you don't even watch porn. I mean, it's crazy.

You're a sex researcher. I mean, is it missionary every single time? I don't generally talk about my personal life, but I will say no. You know what? I would love to ask you if I can actually, how has it been for you? Because I know that you're pretty outspoken about this stuff. I know you have a character who's trans. Have you,

have you experienced any backlash? You know, I, I have not, I've experienced next to no backlash, which is wild. The character was so beloved by gay people, by trans people, by Hispanics. That was the primary audience for it. I know it's crazy, but that's my career. It's like when I go perform,

I used to sell out shows doing her and the audience was all Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban, women, and gays and trans people would come and they'd, yeah, and they loved it. Um, I think some of them, when they see me, you know, they're a little confused because I'm different from her, but you know, I have multiple personality disorder. And so it's like my comedy appeals to so many different people. And I feel like that's why it's so hard to put people, fans to put their finger on who I am, what I am and what they like.

Cause I have fans who like me for one thing and they don't like the other thing. And then fans who like Marisa, but they don't like me as a standup. So it's all over the place, but I've, I've faced next to no backlash. I feel like now I would never be able to create that character.

I feel like it's also an interesting thing because I know there's certain comics who have become activists who would love to have nailed me on it or whatever, but they can't because the people that love it are the people who they would try to advocate on on behalf of. So it's really funny. I'm kind of like an outlier in that way that, you know, if you like, you try to cancel me because of Maurice,

it's like, well, trans people love it. I mean, you know, gay people love it. Hispanics love it. And I'm not gay or Hispanic or anything, but I guess I nailed that character so much, and she was so lovable, that comedy kind of won out, which is, which is refreshing, and it's the way that it should be, because I'm trying to make people laugh, and that was the goal of it, and I've always been fascinated with transgendered people, and people who feel like they're born in the wrong body, and I'm a huge history fan, and I find, like, beautiful trans women attractive, I'm a huge history fan and I find like beautiful trans women attractive. And I also love history and know that trans, like that element has always been there, you know, with eunuchs, et cetera, and people trying to explore the other genders, aura, whatever you want to call it, and sexuality, all that stuff, is very fascinating, and I welcome it

all, so much like you, I feel like nobody should be discriminated against, nobody should be made to feel shame about who they are, and I'm happy that we live in a more progressive society in the first world when it comes to that, it's so funny, because activists often critique the first world when it comes to that. It's so funny because activists often critique the first world for being so repressive and oppressive when we are the most progressive by far. I mean, not even close to a lot of these other cultures out there. So, you know, I have a gay brother as well who I love very much. And, you know, he had a tough time because he's older, much older than me. And, you know, my mother didn't really accept him even though she was

like a human rights lawyer so you know that's that you know that oxymoronic kind of dichotomy you have to deal with with humans

on the one hand she was very progressive on the other hand she did not accept you know she sent my brother to get converted and shit like that

so it's like I love gay people they're so fun trans people the concerns are obviously the ones that you raise and i think any reasonable person uh would want to explore that and learn about it read your books and feel comforted that there's some comforted that there's somebody who is uh you know who's talking about this stuff to help them walk them walk them through it. Because I know I have a daughter now. I mean, she could turn around in four years

and be like, you know, my name's Steve now. Now buy me a dick, daddy. And I just have to, you know. So it's like, it's a new world out there. And, you know, it's a complicated issue. But I, like you, am empathetic and supportive to whatever anyone wants to do. And I too believe that it's all hardwired

and people should be free and people should be accepting. And freedom, to me, it's so funny that the people who advocate freedom a lot always say, but we don't want that. And I'm like, wait, don't you love freedom? I mean, like freedom doesn't mean that everyone lives like you,

you know, going to football games and, you know, shooting guns and waving an American flag. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you truly love freedom, the definition of that is coexisting with people who like different shit. Because that's freedom, right?

It's like, because if everyone's doing the same shit, that's just fascism. Might as well just throw on a fucking uniform and do this. You know what I mean? Which they're probably going to demonetize me on YouTube for doing that. But I'm making a point.

It's like, variation is the spice of life. It's what makes the human condition so intriguing. That's why novels are written. That's why we have drama. We're all trying to coexist as the people we really are and that's a beautiful thing and hopefully that becomes a more accepting thing in the future and we we uh flourish and continue as a species or we're just fucking done

and only jeff bezos and elon musk are living in some fucking oxygen tank uh on Mars or whatever because they they know something that's why they're trying to get off the planet well sorry that was a long that was a harangue uh it's amazing you know I I have a lot of respect for your work and I love that you just say what you think and you don't care what people have to say about it yeah well it hasn't done great for my career, but I, you know, I enjoy doing it. Well, people appreciate that though. I hope so. I hope so.

But, and likewise you. So tell people again, your books that they can pick up. Your podcast is obviously your namesake. It's eponymous, but go ahead, tell them everything in there and you should definitely check out Debra and all she does.

I mean, you're so, so brilliant. Thank you. So you can get The End of Gender, my book, pretty much. Well, I'd say go to my website, drdebrasso.com. I have links to booksellers there. You can also go to Simon & Schuster's website. So it's available in hardcover, ebook. The audiobook is read by me, which you can actually get for free on Audible.

And the paperback just came out, as I mentioned. The Dr. Deborah So podcast is available on all audio platforms. I will be expanding to video eventually. And it's basically a podcast where I talk to intellectuals about sex, mental health, relationships, their personal lives. We also talk about politics and the culture war. And yeah, on social media, I'm on Instagram at Dr. Deborah W. So and on Twitter at Dr. Deborah. So Dr. Deborah. So thank you so much for deigning to do this silly podcast. I appreciate it.

And this was amazing. I had so much fun. So thank you so much for having me on. Of course. Thank you. Now for our small business shout outs, you know, Yanni Longdays likes to support the small businesses out there and you fans, we need you to support these small businesses. That's what it's all about. Networking and you finding out about small businesses that you may need or telling friends who are in need of these services. If it comes up, say, hey, I'm a Yanni Longday's listener. Guess what? I have a freelance digital marketing consultant for you by the name of Nate Linder. Welcome to the Longday's small business shout out crew, my friend Nate. Appreciate you, dog. So Nate Linder is a screwed in kid. He's a freelance digital marketing consultant and manager out there in Denver, but he's originally from Chicago.

And he will definitely crack open and clean out your digital marketing game, my friends. He helps businesses across the world create high performing websites and rank number one on Google. You gotta get that number one spot on Google. He helps you build your brand and profit from social media and much, much more. You got to go see Nate. Nate specializes in

working with construction companies, doctors, and lawyers, but has found success marketing in dozens of industries. So whatever you do, if you need marketing, go with Nate. If your business is not making money from the net, it probably should. So go see natelinder.com. That's N-A-T-E-L-I-N-D-E-R, natelinder.com and get in touch with Nate and he will help you out. Go hire him to be your freelance digital marketing consultant. Welcome, Nate. We love you, Nate. Nate. Nate's the man, bro.

I love that we got such an array of different businesses. As you know, we got ZJammerRealty.com, my boy Andrew Cuomo, secretary. Hold on. Ah, there we go. Pushed out a five. If you're looking for any rental in Brooklyn, commercial or an apartment, residential,

you gotta go to ZJamaRealty.com. Check these kids out. Couple screwed in Jewish kids from Brooklyn will take care of you. ZJamaRealty.com for all your real estate needs in the Brooklyn area. Okay. So that's a simple one then of course. Now, if we got you covered also, if you're going down to South Florida. So we got you covered in Brooklyn. We got you covered in South Florida with Grant Trower. My man Grant will take care of you at Granttrower.theatlanticrealtygroup.com

or you can call him at 954-591-6465 if you're looking for an apartment or anything in the South Florida area. If you're looking to buy your home, sell your home, looking for an apartment rental, whatever you're looking for, Grant is your man. So granttrower.theatlanticrealtygroup.com. Go see Grant. He'll take care of you and get you a nice spot with some outdoor space and maybe even knows a cocaine dealer in South Florida to get you started.

Squeegee, Luigi, brother. We love you. And thank you so much for your service, Squeegee Luigi. So you know Squeegee Luigi's deal, right? His Instagram is getterntco. Getterntco. Go there and buy yourself a cannabis paraphernalia, exotic dab tools, pipes, rolling trays, luxury pens, jewelry, and self-defense gear.

If you want to defend yourself. And he also has tool furniture and everything. So you can even buy furniture to, you can get a chest to put up against the doorknob and defend yourself that way while you were in self-defense gear and you can stab him with a pen. So this kid's got you covered if you want to kill someone in a james bond type of way so go to get turnt co check out his page and check out all the cool stuff he has there that's his most recent project get turnt co that's g-e-t-t-u-r-N-T-C-O. All handcrafted stuff, luxury grade products for your living and smoking pleasures, my friend.

Squeegee Luigi, you are the fucking man. Get turnt too. Chris Manetti, how you doing, cuz? No, seriously, how the fuck you doing out there in Philly? Are you drinking water? Manetti Financial Services. I got to read it like this. Minetti Financial Services. Call Chris if you need to get your business check cashed in the Philly, South Jersey area. 215-750-3730. 215-750-3730 to get your business check cashed

by Minetti Financial Services. No social media, old school, because you just call this motherfucker on the phone. That way the IRS can't track it, capiche? Call Chris and let him take care of you. Then we got our boy Michael Hamlet Jr. I wonder what Michael Hamlet Sr. is like. And I hope he's proud of you.

The Bronx brand. Of course he's proud of you. This is so cool. It's a showcase of Bronx creativity. Go to thebronxbrand.com and buy something from these cool Bronx artists up there. They got all types of art, prints, clothing, things you can buy. It's a stories in the Bronx magazine. So the Bronx brand is just uplifted the home of hip hop.

Go peruse, man, go check it out. There's a lot of cool stuff. It's so cool to find like unique stuff made by artists that you own an original piece that nobody else owns for your house to put on your, your body. So the Bronx brandxbrand.com.

Go and support. Promo code FUMES for 15% off whatever your order is. And the artists get paid. It's revenue sharing with the site. So go support them and get yourself something cool from thebronxbrand.com. Then we go with my boy Reese Ormand. Reesey boy, how are you my friend? Techvera.com. Here is the deal. Okay. You want 24, uh, seven, 365 day a year coverage and unlimited support for all your tech needs. Uh, that's what they offer

to their flat rate partners my friend instead of hiring a whole it department you just hire tech vera and they will take care of you um they'll do anything anything you anything tech they'll take care of cyber crime cyber security whatever it is you need to encrypt your data uh don't let anybody hack your ship. Just go to techvera.com and hire Tech Vera for your IT needs. They're fume-free too, which is also good. Eastside Cheesecakes, the best fucking cheesecakes on the planet in the Los Angeles area.

You can get them at Uncle Paulie's Deli. You can order them straight from eastsidecheesecakes.com. Follow them on the gram. Eastside Cheesecakes, all one word. They got the best, most fresh cheesecakes. If you're having some sort of event in the Los Angeles area, anywhere, maybe they'll send you a cheesecake. Go to eastsidecheesecakes.com.

It's fucking delicious, and there's no other way to slice it. It's the best, freshest cheesecake there is. Shout out, Gregory and Julia. the way to slice it it's the best freshest cheesecake there is shout out gregory and julia aaron leaf my boy down in hawaii oh aloha uh okay for the free for the free is an organization dedicated to providing artists from hawaii a place to develop their craft they host free shows, post music by local artists. So go check out their website, forthefree.us. So that's where you go, forthefree.us. Find out about these local bands out there. Support the Hawaii local scene. Come on, dude. This is cool, fun stuff for you to do and peruse all these creative, talented people

doing good things locally. Rob's Mental Playground. I heard he's selling a little bit of art to long haulers. I want to continue to see that because we want to keep Rob. We want to keep Rob. We want to keep Rob in business, baby. So robsmentalplayground.com.

Go check out his t-shirts, his prints. He's a crazy fucking kid who did this hyena right behind me. We love Rob. So you can follow him on the gram, Rob's Mental Playground, and just get wild with him. Comment, tell him you're a long hauler,

and tell him you love him. Tell him long day sent you. Then, of course, we got Jared Z from the Stinkbox Tallahassee looking for that Harry Yanni P to make me a cuzzy. You know what's the dollars they will move your fucking car no matter where you are brother exclusive auto shipping dot com okay they will

ship anywhere nationwide even alaska puerto rico and hawaii they also can ship internationally so if you need to move your wheels autoshipping.com and get your free quote and uh move your fucking car to your new address i mean what do you want me to tell you we appreciate each and every one of you small business owners now we go on to the appreciation for our Patreon members over at patreon.com slash Yanni Longdice. Guys, all my live touring dates are on my website, yannispapascomedy.com. Richmond, Virginia, this weekend right now. If you're watching this on Saturday, too late. I was there from the 16th to the 18th.

Maybe you can catch a late show if you run out right now. I was there from the 16th to the 18th. Maybe you can catch a late show if you run out right now. Comics Roadhouse at Mohegan Sun Casino, October 14th through the 16th in Connecticut. Magoobies in Maryland, Timonium, Maryland, basically Baltimore or whatever. November 4th, one show, get your tickets.

Then I'm doing Phoenix, Arizona from the 2nd to the 4th of December so check out my dates then let's get to our Patreon members welcome to patreon.com slash Yanni Long

our new long haulers are Karen Wolf Rat Muffin Nate Linder but he's a business owner too Nate Linder

Karen Wolf Rat Muffin Danny Danny Radds, Matthew Hoth, Screwed In Potato Monkey, O'Brien Plumbing LLC. So you got to plug in there. Love you, brother. He's a good Irish kid. Then we got Greg Kinlan, Dimitri Gam, Greek Pubes, an infinite source of biofuel.

The winner. Greek pubes an infinite source of biofuel the winner Austin Burns and Fabio Maselli I mean that kid's been Italian going all the way back to Rome

so join that's our newest members patreon.com slash Yanni Longdays for a weekly bonus episode

and additional content and to have your name read on the podcast appreciate the support from all you tell friends We'll see you next time. It's been a long day.