Yet Another Star Trek Podcast - Ep 002: (TOS S00E01) The Cage

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Welcome to Yet Another Star Trek Podcast, a show where two Trekkies and a nerd decided to watch the entire TOS run of Star Trek for some reason. In this episode we review and discuss the original pilot episode, "The Cage". Brad leads the crew through the discussion on how this episode holds up after 50 years. Listen in to hear what shined and felt a little awkward on this episode. What did you think of "The Cage"? Drop us an email at [e-mail] and we'll discuss it on the air! Be sure to check out our website, social media, and join our Discord! Links for all are listed below: Website | Discord | Instagram | Twitter | TikTok| YouTube “Warp Speed” and "To the Stars" was written and performed by William Grobbelaar Music. Check out his Soundcloud for more music: https://soundcloud.com/williamgrobbelaarmusic

Good day listeners, welcome to yet another Star Trek podcast, I'm Brad, your host for tonight's episode. Someone that has less personality than data himself. I'm joined tonight with Michael Doran's stunt double on TNG. Hey, Mjie, how's it going over there, buddy? That's going great. How are you less personality than data? I'm doing fantastic, sir. Thank you so much for asking.

Hope everything's good and you're next to the woods. But you know what? We have our buddy over there. A Will Riker inspiration? Drew, how's it going there, buddy? You know, I have been cultivating this beard for quite some time. I can tell, I can tell.

You truly hit the epitome of Will Riker. Will Riker has significantly more hair than I have though. But I am flattered to be even in, it's not specified where. You just like have the lower half going for you there. Look, I just know that when we get to Angel 1 and he wears that nice like chest piece the V, like me and him, we're like stunt doubles of our own. I'll tell you what, just send me a selfie of you wearing one of those deep v's and I'll be the judge of it.

You got it, buddy. So, Majeed, how's everything been going? It's been a bit of time since I've last talked with you. Seven days to be exact. So, no, not even seven days, no, listen. No, no, if you want to be technical, I talked to you like two hours ago, we had discord, but you know.

We, we, we, listen, we talk every single day, every single morning, you know, obviously not in, in person because, you know, we're not, we're not together in the same state. But it's also been seven days since the listeners actually had a chance to hear from you. That's fair. In the seven days, I've actually had a chance to hear from you. That's fair. In the seven days, I've been well.

I nail down a routine. I'm up at what, five in the morning and so is Kylo, the dog. I don't know. I'm missing out on sleep, man, because even when I know are those brisk walks in the morning you're going for. I don't take brisk walks in the morning. I'm getting my butt up and I'm taking pre-workout and karate chopping stuff at the gym. So, let me ask you this, man, like you mentioned that you're having a little bit trouble with sleep. What time are you going to bed? So you're doing that thing that Brad did last week where you're basically exposing my My my my my my weak points

insecurities I go to bed at like 11 30 and some nights I'm able to pass out at 11 like literally. I'll have the phone on my hand and I'm knocked out See that's the problem man. You got to stop looking at the mobile devices in our before sleep. That's what they say, but nobody ever does that. Brad, are you reading that off of somewhere? Did you just read that off of a paper? Web MD. Brad is like a, um, Brad, like a cordon to Buzzfeed. Yes, I get all my news from Buzzfeed.

Do you can use like that, that light filter on the phone too, like have it turn red Yeah, so get all my news from BuzzFeed. You can use that light filter on the phone too. Have it turned red at sunset. Do you know about that? So I do something like that, but every single time that it goes on, I'm like, shit, I'm still up. I gotta turn this off because I can't see anything. Oh, buddy.

Oh, man, there's these turn lights on in your house, man. Well, if you have it in my wife's way, every single light in my house will be on. We'll be just sucking down electricity. Well, I'm the one walking around behind her, being like, okay, cool. You're done with that room. I'm turning that light off. All right. Here's what here's what's going to happen. I'm going to get you a set of night vision goggles. I think that's where we start. Night vision infrared goggles. And whenever they turn on, they make that loud beeping noise from us but Right time clansies right

I can actually see what the heck my cat is doing in the middle of the night. You don't want to know that No, nobody nobody wants to know what their cat is doing at two o'clock in the morning Honestly, either she's looking at some sort of demon in the corner or she's playing with the mouse that we utter for her toy. Let's go with a ladder and not the former. Speaking of weird things that cats do, Drew has two of them. And how you doing, buddy?

You and your fancy cats. Every night when I go to bed, Metro, he, he starts meowing very rapidly. And it's like one of those meows that like if you're not like in tune with it, you might think something is wrong, right? So you start going, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm running up and down the hallway. Like, like, you just got shot in the ass with buck shot. And then all of a sudden he's like, Ralph, Ralph, Ralph, Ralph. And he has this mouse toy that we gave him. And he'll bring it into the bedroom and drop it on the floor.

I'll just hear, Ralph, Ralph, Ralph. And I hear this toy hitting the floor every single time. It's like he's bringing it to me. He's killing this thing and bringing it to me. He's a lunatic. Is it like he wants to play fetch or something? He doesn't like, he'll never let you see this toy in his mouth.

He refuses to show that, but he will like go crazy, like knocking it around. He picks it up and throws it in the air. It's insane. You know what you got to do Drew is get him on your sleep cycle. That's it. Well, he does do Drew is get him on your sleep cycle. That's it. Well, he does.

Well, he can't even on your sleep cycle. He is because he does that. And then he jumps in the bed and makes it impossible for me to sleep. That's what's happened to me with my cat. She just curls up to the right of me and then my wife is like the hog of the covers and like needs to wrap herself in this cocoon like state.

So I'm like trapped between my wife who doesn't budge an inch in my cat who's like, oh, you're so adorable. I don't want to wake you. I kick Stella out of the room at night. I'm forced to kick Stella out of the room. Listen, I don't want to. It was up to me. I'd have Stella at the foot of my bed the same way Snowball was, but I'm forced to kick Stella out the room. So when I'm up at 5.30, I leave my bed at 5.30. There she is, sanding right there by the door.

And she wants to keep me company until I leave to go to the gym in the morning. But then she gets upset immediately when I have to open the door to get Kylo out of my daughter's room. She's not a fan of that. But they get along. They're getting along a bit. Yeah, except now that Kylo is bigger than Stella,

he tends to treat her like a chute toy. Yeah, it's the worst thing because remember when Stella and Kylo first met, they were almost the same size. Now the tables have turned. And I feel so bad for Stella. She is now the... If she has claws though.

If she was really concerned. She could defend herself. Kylo has bare teeth. Yeah, but dogs just get a cat. I wish that were true. I'll have to record this for you. I've never had a dog. So I can't really comment on that one. Get yourself a dog.

It's fun. I'll give you one. Maybe, maybe when I buy a house, I'll consider that who knows. Yep. That's a, uh, that's a's a written contract you are you're a hell to it Yeah, and then off the enjoy the absolute five-am walks with the dog and rain Sleep or whatever it is and I'm I'm okay with not doing that You're not a male man I can enjoy the fact that my cat. I put her aside and be like, Hey, you take care of yourself. I'll give you some food and water occasionally. You're good. Yeah. Look at you, Mr. Man who has a cat that listens to him. Yeah, right. Seriously.

Oh, I'm a huge role or what are you talking about? I may talk this way, but in truth, my cat really tells me what's going on. It's her world, not my death truth. This week we watched The Cage. It's the original pilot episode that wasn't released until 1986 via VHS. The episode starts with Captain Christopher Pike in the crew of the Enterprise as they receive a distress call from Talos 5. Initially, Pike decides not to investigate, but after a martini and a pep doc from his doctor, Pike changes his mind. Upon arrival, Pike and the away team are greeted by the survivors of the crash ship, all

being old men, except for one very attractive young beautiful woman. Which we later find out her name is Vina. Almost immediately, Pike is deceived by the female survivor and quickly captured by a race of telepathic aliens living beneath the planet's surface. Pike shortly awakens, finding himself in a lock cell with multiple other alien races in adjacent around him. Here we find out the captors are the talosians, they start to mess with Pike's mind, and they make Pike and the viewer question what is real. During this time, the crew of the Enterprise make several

attempt to free Pike from his captors but fail to do so. After the disappearance of two female crew members, number one and Yomon Cult, Spock clearly emotionally distraught, makes the decision to leave the planet, but due to theologians, they are unable to do so. We find out that number one in Yomon Cult were transported into the same cell as Pike. It is also discovered that the female survivor is actually real and not a figment of Pike's imagination in that the Tolotians are looking to create their own Adam and Eve for the planets.

However, Pike discovers that the Tolotians are unable to read his mind while he is outburst with anger. Because of this, he quickly finds a way to escape to the surface, along with Vina and the missing crewmembers. Once there, they are confronted by the Tolozians, but ultimately advised that they are free to go due to humanity's unique hatred of captivity, making them too dangerous for their needs.

Before Pike leaves, it is explained that Vina was horribly disfigured when her ship crashed and the Tologians made her look beautiful with their mind control powers. Vina decides to stay because of this and the Tologians create an imaginary Pike to stay with her forever so she is never alone. To sum up the episode, the ship's doctors is also your bartender, spot that's emotional, and the race of telepathic aliens can make it easy to date yourself. Fellas, thoughts, comments, concerns, questions, what is going on in this episode? What are your thoughts, Drew?

Let me start with you, buddy. How did this episode resonate with you? Well, I mean, this wasn't the first time I had seen this episode, but it has been a while since I've watched it. And, uh, boy, I'm not entirely sure what to think. There are certainly elements I like, but quite a few elements that didn't really sit too well with me, I think, as well too. They went over the top, I think, with the cerebral kind of stance that they were trying to get across with the episode.

I know for me that when I first watched it, I remember thinking to myself, this is some kind of episode. It definitely had a Star Trek feel, but I was quite surprised with why they would choose this story for a pilot episode when they were trying to push something through the execs. And that kind of threw me off a bit. Yeah, and I would agree with that as well too, because, you know, if you think about it, they ultimately decided not to go with this as the pilot. It was enough to sell the series, but it wasn't enough to make it to air. And I think, you know, these executives were basically

looking at the potential of what could be rather than what was laid before them. So as a pilot, I think there are some some pretty interesting ideas going on here, namely, if you know, everything with the enterprise itself, the idea of being able to beam down to all these different worlds. But, you know, Roddenberry didn't really have the character styled in at that point, like Spock, you know, clearly a very different character than the one that we come to know over time. For example, and just a lot of details that I think weren't quite honed in yet. Thinking about from the pile episode into what I know of Spock, I definitely agree. He has changed the characteristics. Obviously, as the series progressed the character spot evolved through the the actions and the Ventures that the Enterprise crew had during that now. Mjee, what were your thoughts? Is it this being

somewhat probably a very different experience than what you've been used to on like the lower decks discovery How did this episode come across to you? It was It was interesting There was so much There wasn't as much use of the lens flare as I as I hoped so that was kind of disappointing I'm sure that that probably didn't get really invented for a few more years after this So I think partway through the episode, I said to myself, man, this is, there are,

see, one, two, there are four actors now to play Pike. So in my mind, in my head cannon, I've referred to the Pike from this episode as Proto Pike. So every time you hear me refer to, you know, Pike in this episode is proto-pike, all right? Be clear? I guess I will somewhat accept that as a reference point. All right, right, because I'm not changing.

In my opinion, this is original Pike. No, because this is like the true original version of Pike, whereas everything else came afterwards. Right, so proto-Pike, right? We'll call him proto-Pike. Can we get a book definition on what proto means for the listeners? It's called Pike Prime.

Ooh, I don't know, Pike, uh, Pike Prime for me. I edit that, edit that, edit that. Tung, tongue twister a bit. A little bit. edit that edit that. Tongue twister bit. A little bit. So Pike Prime was the one inside of the Morse Code wheelchair, right? That's Pike Prime.

That's the first one to appear within the episode, then the lore of Star Wars. Ooh, Star Trek. Ooh, that's Strike One. Is that Strike One? I'm sorry. That is Strike One. That's Strike One. I'm sorry. I gave myself a strike. Oh, that's one Demarance. I think we need to make sure we keep that clip and we we basically posted everywhere. Oh my god, I'm not ashamed. You're on your first

episode review and you've already broken the cardinal rule. Listen, we still have our safe word which is what you just know that if we say what you say for it. So again, proto-pike, I didn't like him. I did not like him at a product of its time. So a pilot shot in the 60s. The fabric used on their uniforms, the hairstyles, and the way that Pike treated the Ensign. The female Ensign. the female Ensign. That was so bad.

I think that's, yeah, I think that was like one of the things that like immediately stood out to me. Not in the good way. It was, I can't get used to a woman on the bridge. I can't use to have a woman having a woman on the bridge. And then he qualifies number one as being a woman exception, but as soon as he said that, my eyes lit up and I was like,

what did he just say? Yeah, I had to put down- How was that acceptable? Yeah, I had to put it down. And then, and note, not five minutes after that, a party of six men beamed down to the planet. Yeah. Yeah, you know.

Now, who saved them in the end? Like, I mean, number one came down with, and she led the party and, and, you know, blew the door open. I mean, she didn't know that they did, but, but they did. And, you know, ultimately, her presence is what got Pike Freed, her and the arm. The official captain's log that Pike writes, I guarantee you mentioned nothing of that. It's just gonna say that he did it. Do you think, I have a question for you guys. Do you think that Captain Pike

is the original Zap Brannigan? No, God no. Obviously Captain Kirk is the original satbrat again. Yeah, Kirk has so much inspiration for that character, I feel. To me, it's like overflowing with the mannerisms of Kirk. But I don't remember, and granted, we still have three seasons to find out together, but I don't remember Kirk ever speaking like that about women. That is a fair point.

We do have three seasons. So I guess once we finish all three seasons, we can better answer that question. But wasn't Kirk a known womanizer though? Well, he's like known for sleeping with every green alien. But that doesn't mean he's sexist. By the way, Pike also has fantasies of green women. True. We did get our, we got our first Orion Slade girl in this one.

We did our first one in this episode. And I couldn't, I couldn't help but notice in that scene where Vina is painted green. Only some spots of her are painted green. Like she moved aside her wig and you see like still her white skin. She turned around and you still see like blotches of white skin on her back. I said, oh okay. Uh, I mean, you know, again, it's always saddened on us. Still did it first and did it better. I think the thing that to keep in mind is like, yeah, those things always stand out, but in a lot of pilot episodes and of course, one of this, this was filmed in 1966.

66. No, no, maybe 65. Yeah. Filmed in the 65. So it was, it was filmed in the 1960s and of course, like with, with that type of stuff, like think about what else was on, on error that time. You have like the monsters that on on error that time you have Like the monsters that were probably around that time period. You have like

Gilligan's Island and stuff like that. It wasn't like a super driven high-tech type of You know society that we have like today, and so it's yeah, they're gonna not going to really care as much, because they just need to get it done and then move on to the next story. Well, something else to consider too is, you know, it's 2022 and we have televisions that are displaying things that were originally filmed in standard definition in, you know, 1080p or 4K. So when this was made, if you were watching this on your TV set at home,

first of all, you probably didn't have a color TV. And if you did, you certainly weren't gonna pick out those splotches in her makeup because you couldn't see them. Yeah, that's a very good point. Speaking of which, didn't Wikipedia say that the episode was colorized before it's released on VHS Yes parts parts of it parts of it. So was this filmed and mostly black and white? From what I understand is actually it could have been colorized in this entirety

Because it a I think around that time period, most of the early colorized ones, it was filmed in black and white and then later colorized. But only think parts of it was colorized because parts of that episode was used for another episode of the first season. And so that's why that's why it was a difference between some of the clips when I think when I first found a copy of it, it was part colored and then part black and white. The good news is you'll get to see that episode pretty soon. Spoiler. I think it's what episode eight or something. the the good news is you'll get to see that episode pretty soon spoiler, I think it's what episode eight or something Spoiler so of of the entire episode. Magi. What would you say your favorite part of the episode was?

I have a few I have a few I do have a few You gotta eat he put me on a spot You gotta, he put me on a spot. You put me on a spot. I can't just, I believed you watched it. I watched it last night. Like more reason than I did. I watched it like a week ago,

where you watched the last night. This should be a lot more fraction of your memory, buddy. So, again, I had a few favorite parts of the episode because, so the zoo, their quote unquote, Mnashere, it invoked memories of the zoo, their quote unquote, Ben Asheret, it invoked memories of the zoo that Superman kept on his fortress's solitude. It invoked memories of that for me, you know, with the glass and the sea through.

And I really enjoyed the battle that Pike had inside, I guess, in his own mind when he was fighting that big giant, what they said was a monster. Oh, the guy who growled like an animal. Right, and they were like, oh man, it's monsters, there's animals coming. And I'm expecting like this guy in a costume.

No, it's just a really tall guy. He looked like a bonfire. For the monkey zoo would have been more like acceptable as what I expected as opposed to a guy like wearing like some sort of like loincloth type of a mongoli head up. He was a mongoli. Yeah. Drew, the voices that that creature made. Oh, yeah. It It was it was phenomenal. And and and

top of that like it was so corny and how that played out where where he ended up falling on the sword. It was just so it was so cheesy. I feel like I could take some nachos and just dip it in there. Yeah, that's a good, that's good. That was a good dad joke. That was a good dad joke. Sure. What about you, man?

What was your favorite part of the episode? Um, I feel like it's kind of like a mixture of my favorite part and wishful thinking. I really enjoyed the early interaction with Dr. Boyce, who wasn't, and Pike. And, you know, when he's like having that conversation with him over the martinis, I feel like we did get enough of an opportunity to learn about anybody other than Pike in this. And I think I kind of wanted to be a fly in the wall for more of their conversations. Is I kind of enjoyed that banter that they had going back

and forth between each other. I thought that was particularly fun. If a little forced, you know, the whole line about, you know, sometimes you'll tell your bartender things you won't tell your bartender things you won't tell your doctor. Like that was clever, but it was also a little much at the same time, but I enjoyed it. I think that was probably my one of my favorite parts in the episode because it's so ridiculous.

And like I can understand maybe at that time period there is a level of truth to it. And maybe even today there's a little level of truth for it. But to me, I like it only because of how ridiculous it actually sounds where he's like, what's this? Martini, it's like, okay, cool. You're a doctor and you're just gonna give a milk all. All right. That's how the future is. And can we also address the fact that

Protopike flopped onto his bed like who's a teenage girl? Yes. Yes, and he was all like, you know, laying there like he had his head up on his hand, elbow on the pillow. Right. You know, like you could you could splice in scenes from mean girls and proto pike lying on the bed. It would fit in right right there. Hmm. I just picture, um, Jurassic Park, that meme of what's the guy's name, Malcolm.

Goblory's like sitting back with the shirt with the shirt off and everything and like Pike right next to him. Like, oh, that that's the couple. Right. I can get behind that. By the way, so when Pike is, where Proto Pike is walking, I think either to the bridge or away from the bridge, there were these, there was this couple, these two people wearing Hawaiian shirts and shorts.

Yes. What was that? What was that? No. I thought, I thought, I thought it was a mistake. lion shirts and shorts. Yes. What was that? What was that? Nope. I thought it was a mistake. That was one. And I said, okay, well, it could also be the simulation machine.

Oh, the holiday deck. Holiday didn't exist yet. Right. So what the heck were they doing? What was happening? So I vote right now, though, forever now, we're gonna call the holodeck the simulation machine Just just in order you machine. I really I really like that. I hate you so much. We gotta write this I gotta write this down I'm like one for you Brad

That's right one for you So so Drew I'm gonna put you on the spot now. So what was your least? Before you put me on the spot? What was your favorite moment? Oh, do I really have to know? Yes, it was probably the The interaction with number one and and how she was directing the crew As far as trying to save Pike, taking like that ownership responsibility. I think I'm in the same boat, same camp with you, is that I was really disappointed that it was the Pike show, as opposed to it was the entire crew of the Enterprise. It was all about Pike.

entire crew of the Enterprise. It was all about Pike. And I was hoping to have more understanding to like number one. We got a really good glimpse of her in Star Trek Discovery season two. And the glimpse of her from that, I absolutely adored the character. The character was phenomenal. And then I found, like I when I actually guess I never really realized that she was from this pilot episode. And then when I found out she was, I was really hoping to get more information. And then of course reading up on it, she never

makes an appearance. Again, really the actress plays, I think, another character in a later episode. plays I think another character in a later episode. And also fun fact, she is the computer voice for Enterprise Star Trek, Next Generation Enterprise. No, no, not Enterprise. DS9. So she's responsible for all the starfleet ships. Yeah, up until a certain point. So you'll hear her voice on DS9. And you'll hear it on Voyager next gen. Luxon a Troy. I mean, you know, she's, she's done, you know, she's Star Trek royalty. She's also runberry's wife. Yes.

By the way, you are interested in her character in discovery because she was played by Rebecca Romaine Stamos or just I guess Rebecca Romaine. Yeah, just Rebecca Romaine. Yeah, right, listen, I was too. But I'll be honest, I actually don't even know as Rebecca Romaine. Guys, no, I didn't even realize it was

until he just told me right now. And so I was like, oh shit. By the way, her husband, I guess they're both like these big nerds. I mean, in my mind, they are. Cause in DC, they were the voice of Lois Lane and, and, and Superman. Uh, Jeremy O'Connell. Jerry O'Connell. I was close.

Jerry O'Connell. Well, did you know that Jerry O'Connell's also in Star Trek? Right. He's, uh, he's on, um, uh, lower decks. I like my lower decks. Yeah. He's, Yeah. What's which was the character's name? Jack Ransom. Jack Ransom. Yeah. So thank you for joining us on this week's edition of Access Hollywood. Star Trek. No, that wasn't, no, that was football. That wasn't, that was the Access Hollywood.

My name is Monday night football. Okay, cool. Well, it's technically Tuesday when we're recording this. So, I mean, you're only a day off and we're in February, but, you know, whatever. You should date us like that. Although, Super Bowl Sunday is coming out. So, super excited for that. So what was your least favorite part of the episode guys? I'll go first. The least favorite part was the part where Pike gets poised into the cage and the Tolosians start to mess with his mind.

And I'm at that point in the episode and I'm just kind of like so confused is like any of this real is this just like in his head and even gets to a point it's like is that woman real like are any of those other aliens real like what the heck is real in the episodes and I think There was not enough Baseline for me to understand what really is real Because they they go into like up something that happened last week and And he did like a for the fight for that that monster thing and it just, it was so confusing at that point that I felt was not a good story arc.

In my view, and I think that was probably one of the major, major least favorite parts for me. So if I have this correctly, your favorite, your least favorite part of the episode was the fact that it made you question reality. No, it made me question what the hell is going on? So it made you question reality. It's like, what was real? What's not real?

Am I real? Am I watching this? What's happening? That's what I'm getting from you. You know what? I'll just, I'll just go with it, man. Yeah. I question what's real.

I always, I always, how about you? What was your least favorite part? I my least favorite part is knowing that the talotians are are totally into voyeurism. Like that was very apparent. They're like, Hey, we're going to put you in here with this, this, this, this, this very attractive female. Go do stuff. Nobody watch. There were also, there were also like, if you cooperate, you get pleasure. If you disobey,

you get pain. But we have to watch. Exactly. It's in some level of kingp right there. Hey, by the way, did you happen to notice that the to logians look like Peter Capaldi from the suicide spot? No, yes, but but apparently the to logians making appearance and discovery. That's good. Yeah, I didn't realize that. I they they did in the episode that Pike went back to the planet.

I didn't too. I didn't realize it was the same creatures. I had to rewind that episode. They looked a bit different if you think it was. That's because they had about 50 years of, you know, special effects improvement. Also, I mean, they aged. Hey, hey, don't do that.

That's right. Hey, hey, Drew, hey. Stop it. Yes. Drew, what was Hey, stop it. Yes. Drew, what was Drew the least favorite part of the episode? I mean, the sexism. How is that not anybody's answer? That's a big one.

That's a big one. No. It's a tough one for me to get a... See, like to me, I was kind of debating on saying that, but I felt like that's just such a broad statement across the entire episode. I mean, it's tough to not have that stereo in the face, but I mean, I understand that was a project of its time.

So I'm willing to, I guess give it a pass, not that I'm condoning it, obviously, but it's just how things were. So I don't think any of us are'm condoning it, obviously, but like, it's just how things were. So I don't think any of us are gonna condone it by saying that's not specifically pointing that out as our least favorite part of the episode. I think that's quite obvious, based upon the conversations.

We started off with saying, like that was one of the most shocking moments when it starts off with him saying, I'm not used to having a woman on the bridge. But other than that aspect of it, like when you think about the other characteristics of how they did the story, how they did the scenes, what really stood out to you as far as like your least favorite. I don't know. There were just the way the the Tolozion spoke to Pike and tried to explain things to him. I think it's just so... I don't know. The writing was bad. Yes. I really, I don't think their dialogue was well done. I don't know. The writing was bad. Yes.

I really, I don't think their dialogue was well done. I don't think, the whole thing was just a very abstract approach to a good idea. I think at its core, the idea of the episode is solid, but I think the execution is kind of poor. And particularly when it comes to the tolosions and what they're trying to explain. And maybe it's like, I guess you could kind of stretch it out and look at it at from point of view where perhaps, you know, they don't know how to talk to humans, which is what's causing this conflict

in the first place. But it's just, I don't know, you think if they have brains that big, they'd figure it out. One of the things that I was thinking about as to how the episode really felt, it felt very much like an outer limits episode. Thinking about the elements from that time period, it felt very similar to that and I kind of feel in some sense that's the direction they were they were kind of taking it. There were a lot of parts of the episode that I felt were overly cheesy, overly acted and didn't quite make sense and it was only in there just to progress the story like the the story like the how Pike escapes. They allow number one and a Yoman cult to beam into the cell with their weapons and in reality they

were like a Pike uses their weapon to shoot at the wall being like it doesn't do anything. Nothing works. When in reality it was actually destroying the wall, they just couldn't see it. And to me that kind of showed a huge lack of foresight on the aliens because quite frankly they could have just beamed the two crew members to the surface Disable them there and then bring them into the the cage, but but no they didn't they Had to go directly there and they basically set themselves up for their own demise Well, they had to make a point look like the hero in the end, right? They beam the two women down Pike has an idea and now he has the tools and they're able to enable to say the day. That's why I thought it was set up.

Do you guys have any moments that you felt were just completely ridiculous and hilarious? The slave girl scene. Oh yeah, that was totally ridiculous. That was bad. I think my favorite moment was when the back on the Enterprise are getting ready to beam down to rescue pike and the transporter kicks in, but only beams down yeoman and number one in Spock yells, the women.

Yeah. It's like, what are we doing now? Man one of the most ridiculous parts was when they left the weapons They the tologe when they woman beamed down into the cage They had the weapons with them and they just dumped the weapons near the Was the food where they put the food in. And then like the Toulosion that goes to get them, you know, they, they, uh, Pike realized they're going to grab it and so he captures the guy.

And to me, thinking about if you can control their minds, why don't you just make them their minds. Why don't you just make them throw the weapons out of the cage? And there were so many nonsensical plot holes for the whole situation. I felt like they had an idea, but they didn't really have a good way of getting out of it. I would agree with that. Yeah, that's a really good observation. Now, moving on to back to a favorite topic, Drew, of all the characters, who was your favorite character and why? I mean, there weren't any other characters other than Pike. I mean, it's hard to really say because, you know, this, the

cast doesn't really developed enough. I mean, you got a glimpse of number one as being the strong independent woman that was able to do everything that a man could do, which is a big deal in 1960s. But I don't feel like they developed her personality fully enough to take advantage of that, you know? And I guess maybe they had limited time. I mean, the episode was, you know, probably only a 90 minute runtime with the commercials and whatnot. So, I just didn't find Pike likeable in this. There wasn't anything about him pike likeable in this. There wasn't anything about him that I found redeeming, especially from what we know of the character as Anson Mount portrayed it. And even the one from the movies too that was portrayed by what the name comes worth. No, no, greenwood, right?

Bruce Greenwood. Bruce Greenwood. Thank you. Thank you. You know, both of them, I think, had more likable portrayals of Pike than Jeffrey Hunter did here. So I guess, I guess that's a long way of saying number one. Would you say that Pike would have been your least favorite character then? would have been your least favorite character then? It's, yeah. Does that change or, now that you've gone this experience, does that change your perspective of how you view the character pike? Not really, because I can separate that

and recognize that that's a script problem and actor problem, a time period problem. All of the things that I love about Pike in the modern day, I don't think any of those were even grazed upon in this episode. Having that like mentor kind of role or, you know, being a good leader, you know, in this episode, he doubts himself, he's burnt out, he wants to go home, he doesn't want to be in charge of the enterprise anymore. He's sick of ordering people to their death.

And, you know, maybe that is something that weighs heavily on Anson Mounds Pike, but you never get that from him because he is the leader that everybody needs at all times, you know, it kind of feels as if the pilot episode is in its own world, its own universe, so to speak, it compares into how The other start from what we know of other Star Trek franchises and it feels very distant in that sense Well something that Star Trek has always historically done for better or for worse is to try to shoehorn its previous history into modern day things. So whether it's the next

generation acknowledging the original series, DS9 acknowledging everything before it, or all the way up to discovery where they're in the past, technically discovery starts before you know, in the past, during, you know, technically discovery starts before, you know, or concurrent with this episode, right? So they're shoe-horning these things in to make it all canon, so it works. And sometimes they do a good job of that, sometimes they don't. I think Pike is a character that I'm interested in learning more about. But I think if Gene Roddenberry were writing the script, it probably wouldn't really be that interested. Fair point. Majeed, how about you?

Who would you say your favorite character was in the episode and what? Yeah, I don't have a favorite character. I mean, again, like Drew said, there was only pike, right? We spent the majority of the episode focused, you know, solely on proto pike. And I did not like proto pike. He complained. I don't think I don't think anyone's really liked him. Yeah. I mean, NBC certainly didn't like Proto Pike, right? Yeah, it's sitting there and they got rid of him. He was not rejoining the crew for the next episode.

Right, and the doctor, for some reason, just had alcohol in his bag. I've kind of nonsense as that. I would like to see more Spock, right? Letter and D-Moy in the episode was not the Spock that we all know and love throughout the years. He was not the beloved character. So I am sorry about it, I don't have a favorite character.

What about you? I'm going to have to disagree with both of you in the sense that you can't get attached with a character in such a short period of time and I truly liked number one. Even though she had very limited screen time, very limited lines, interaction, the amount of time that I saw the character in the episode, I was able to get a, I felt a very good feel for how she was, a very strong, dedicated woman that I really wanted to see more of. And I think that's what the episode to me really shined at, whereas I really wanted to just find out more about her, find out who she was, how she is, and really give her my attention.

Well, yeah, Pike definitely quite honestly kind of ruined the episode, so to speak for me. Um, his, the way he treated the, the women, the way he treated, the crew, it was a very different start track from what I'm used to. But I, I really do feel that the amount of time with number one was able to get to a, a good feeling and a good place with her. Do we know how long Pike had been capped in prior to this episode? I'm sure there's some information about somewhere off the top of my head. and a good place with her. Do we know how long Pike had been Captain prior to this episode? I'm sure there's some information about somewhere off the top of my head. I don't have that answer, but if you give me a few minutes and you can probably find that out.

Yeah, because I mean, in the Star Trek movies, right? Bruce Greenwood, it was years. He was the captain of that ship for years. And I think even Pike, more Pike you know current pike ants and mount has also been captain for a while because he has his crew assembled It wasn't really clear how long you know proto pike had been captain So maybe if we knew how long he had been doing this how long he had been out in space and not docked or not been home, I might be able to sympathize with him a little more. But man, like Drew said, he just came off like a baby, like a whiny child. This is this is very loose information, but from what I could tell, he took command of the enterprise in 2250.

From what I could tell he took command of the enterprise in 2250 and it looks like Kirk took command 2265 So he had commanded the ship maybe for about 15 years Pike was not the first commander of the not the first captain of the Enterprise. That was actually Robert April, who never got officially filmed, but there's, I think there's an episode of the animated series where he shows up. He had it for about five years. So, Pike, we're looking at about 15 years.

What year did Enterprise, like, when did that? What was that taking place? You're talking about Scott Bacula. Yeah, Jonathan Archer. Yeah, Archer. Geez. It had been 23rd century. So I'm sorry, 22nd century. So 2150s. Okay. So it's like 100 years prior to even that. Okay. Yeah. So he took command of the enterprise in 2021. Okay. So it's a bit of a jump between that. It does feel the character pike, you could get a sense of being tired from him or from

his role as captain. And it's funny when you think about the other experiences we have, we've never really gathered that much weight on his shoulders comparison to. So I guess I wonder if the discovery, when discovery takes place and he's on that, if that's supposed to take place a lot before. Well, we know his days are numbered, release now that. Yeah. Yeah. Release now that yeah, yeah, well, so so the issues on talus for happened in

I think it was 20 22 54 all right, so four years into compa pikes command right With discovery He ends up taking over the ship in like 2257 So seven years into his command three or four years after the events of Talos 4, just to kind of give you a loose timeline of a wrap. Okay. Yeah. And I, by the way, Paramount Plus, they tricked me. As soon as the episode was over, it jumped right into the next one. So I'm about seven or eight minutes into the William Shatner, uh, Kirk roll and

man look I I don't want to ruin anything but it's a completely different feel. And eight that that doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, it just it just feels different. It just feels like a show that had already been on the air. And, um, well, that's really hard with the first, I believe the first episode is not the pilot episode. It's not. And so I think that was maybe like the third or fourth episode that they filmed. Well, we'll get into that a little bit more when we start talking about those episodes, but the order of the Paramount Plus releases is not the production order. So like as we get further into the season, you'll see characters wearing uniforms that they weren't supposed to and

you know like Spock for example, there's one episode where he's wearing gold instead of blue and You know that the uniforms were completely different It's just it's just a matter of the production order of the show and what they ended up airing Difers quite a bit so So I guess with with that understanding we'll just have to kind of take you with a little understanding Make sure that we're not too judgmental again, this is probably a show that some people probably didn't think it was going to last. You're asking me a lot of me. We're not going to have the same quality assurance production value as we do from a 2020 show. So just keep that

in mind in that sense. I think that's I think that's fair to expect enough. So I guess to round out the questions and the discussion portion is, is how well do we feel that this episode really holds up in modern day? As we've talked about it, there's plenty of problems. There's a lot of issues with it. In, I dare to say, there's not really many redeeming characteristics either, which is very unfortunate. If you were a show, if you were trying to get your friend or family into Star Trek, this would not be the episode you show them to convince them, hey, you should watch this show. No, it would be a very simple, hey, you can skip this episode

and go to the next one. Yeah. Yeah. If I were to ever do a rewatch of this show, like I've done for others, I would absolutely skip this episode. Pretend it does not even exist. And quite frankly, in most cases, you don't even need to watch this episode because it's so serialized that we can miss this episode and we will still truly understand what's going on in the next one. No, that's not true because now with this episode, I understand that discovery episode a lot more like I get it. You know, Anton Mounts' pipe was tortured, you know, and he... You can actually gather that from one of the future episodes. If I'm understanding correctly, it's that the...

That is based upon the menagerie. Right, fun fact, the original title for this was the menagerie. And it wasn't changed to the cage until much later on after they actually had the menagerie. Uh-huh. And it wasn't it wasn't changed to the cage until much later on after they actually had the menagerie filmed and aired. When you edit this back, can you do sound effects when you say fun fact? Like just some kind of sound effect just so that it's a fun thing to do. No, oh, I tried. Yeah, I mean, this is hard to recommend, you know, quite frankly. It's, I think, I think as a, as a fan of the series and somebody who's kept up with modern trick from a historical standpoint, a context standpoint, I think that this is a good watch.

Just so you have some better understanding of what's going on at Talos 4. But if you are going into this as like, oh boy, I'm gonna watch an episode of Star Trek today, maybe you might not wanna watch this one unless you're doing like a full watch of the series. Oh boy, I'm going to watch an episode of Star Trek today. Maybe you might not want to watch this one, unless you're doing like a full watch of the series. I think for what their goals were,

from a production standpoint, to show that the show was feasible, could be done and kind of give an idea to producers what they could do. I think it was successful, but I don't know. I feel like I was a bit let down by the quality of writing mostly. So according to Drew. I tend to care to your development. So according to Drew,

the only reason you would watch this episode is if you are doing a full watch through or you're doing a podcast based on the original series. accurate. I feel like this is a good example of how how a Star Trek has progressed over the years. If when I think of Star Trek, I think of it being a groundbreaking series

that pushes the limits of equality, pushing the understanding of gender, race, sexuality. And I think about what I am familiar with. It shows that it's not necessarily always going to be that way, and it shows a good progression of how the transition went for. To me, it's a lesson of its time in a sense,

where you said Drew, where it really shows how that time period was. I agree completely is definitely not a good episode of Star Trek. Yeah, to me, it's a complete just pass entirely. I, to me, don't feel like you're getting much out of it. Even if you want to refer or understand references from other series that are later on the future, it's not even worth to me in that sense.

I kind of feel, if you wanna understand history, that's a definite good way to get a grasp of what's going on at that period. Yeah, I think that's well said. Yeah, I don't really have too much else to add. I can tell we are all somewhat let down by this episode. Yeah, honestly, I was. I was really hoping to be blown away by some hidden gem. And that's just not what we experienced, unfortunately.

And it's a little disappointing. disappointing, you know. So on a scale of one to ten, ten being, you know, the best, one being the worst and zero being off the scale. What would you rate it? I look at all the episodes that I've experienced in a Star Trek verse of, you know, that one to ten kind of spectrum. Thinking about like the best of the best and the worst of the worst, I honestly would have to give this a one. Because I think this is by far the worst Star Trek episode I can recall. I can't think of anything that that was worse in any type of scale towards any of the series I've ever watched really. That's, uh, that's rough, man. Yeah, it is. Um, and I don't want, I don't say like, I was thinking about that and I was thinking about like, do I want to give it a five? Because like, you know, I, I always, I always hate giving like the lowest possible reading.

And, and, I mean, if I want to be true to myself and what I find important, what the messages that I find important. Honestly, like that whole aspect of the way, they treated the women the way they overcentralized they desire to breed humans. It just, it went so low for me because to me this wasn't Star Trek. Look man, big, big router's a horn dog. You gotta go into it man.

I felt like I was really watching a episode of the Outer Limits. Like to me, this is why, you know what, maybe I'm being a little too harsh with the other limits from like the the early years But think about the one that was on showtime where there would be sex in every single episode like that's kind of how it felt Oh god no what what what show was that what show was that? That's horrible. I was like it was like showtime or something. Yeah, where can you find that show? That sounds terrible. That's horrible. Who would watch?

Where would we be able to watch this for educational purposes? Where would somebody download that from? Is that just a showtime anywhere, rap? We'll talk later about it. Let me ask you this, though, Brad, because one out of 10 is damning. And like when I'm not saying like you have to posture this episode in a scale that has yet to be determined, but like are you honestly going to put this at the very worst possible when you haven't seen the rest of the series yet? Like I don't think this is a great episode, but I don't think it's a one because I know

there are ones that are coming up and they're gonna be worse than this. That's a fair point. I don't know, can we have a moving scale where I can just say, hey, you know what, this that becomes my five? Nope, this is set in stone now. This is it, you're locked in, bro.

Yeah, I gotta have to chart this. You could change your number now, but whatever you change it to that's that's where it's at They'll be an asterisk there. I mean they would be an asterisk making me feel like this point where I'm like shit I should probably choose choose a higher number then what well, I mean you can still you should you could give it like a three So what I'll go with a three. I would just I would just leave some room at the bottom. That's all I'm saying. All right, all right. I'll go with a three.

I'll change it to a three. Okay. What I will. And you know what I think I think to me, the the only reason why I'm allowing you to talk me into it is because in the future, your doctor is all to your bartender. That's not you can get a physical

and a scotch at the same risk. No, that's, no, you're thinking of back in the 40s, where they're like, oh, you got a gunshot wound, put some heroin on it, you'll be fine. That's what you're thinking of. I don't know, we'll see. And if you, if I do not find a worst episode, Drew, I am totally gonna hold that against that against what I will recommend. And I think we should do this is there are 29 episodes in the first season of of the show.

Keep a running log, whether it be written down or not. And at the end of the season, we'll come back and say, okay, well, these are my top 10. Sure. I will set up a spreadsheet tonight. Yeah. And at the end of it, we'll also say, okay, well, this is the worst episode of the season. We'll have our top and we'll have our very bottom. I like it.

All right. So with that said, Drew will keep the record. Yep. And he will let me know of how much I regret my words that I said. It is decided. Drew, how about you, man? What was yours? One to ten.

Well, I came into this thinking it was going to be a six, but then the more I talked about it with you guys, the more I hated it. So I think I'm out of four. I think there was some stuff here that I did enjoy. You know, number one, I thought was compelling. I kind of dug Dr. Boyce, even though, you know, he really was more of a, a PhD in alcoholism. But, uh, yeah, I, I, I wouldn't go out of my way to watch this. If it were on TV and I was channel surfing,

I might not stick with it. I might skip it. But I know it's not the worst thing I've ever seen. So I feel comfortable with a four. Fair enough. But gee, back to you, buddy. All right, so, one to ten, I would give this a five. And the reason for that is, at midway through the episode, I put my phone down, and I was fully invested. It takes a lot for a show to do that to me. If you know anything about me, I have my phone in my hand hand and I'm browsing TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, whatever.

But if something grabs me violently or otherwise, I'm gonna give all my attention to it. So when Venus started to disappear and reappear and she was being tortured and all that, I said, I'm totally there for this. I said, this is great. Give me more. Is she real? Is she not real?

Why are they trying to have this guy mate with a potential hologram? Why are they trying to Get new humans, but if they are trying to get new humans. Why is she? You know why is she somewhat an illusion I I Look, I had all these questions and for a show to do that for me and Have me put my phone down. I give it a better score. So a five and it would have been better if Pike weren't a baby. Protopike. This is not my pike. Hashtag not my pike. Hashtag not my pike. Andson Mount is my pike. And again, it's a lot to do that because again, Bruce Greenwood absolutely killed it. I love Bruce Greenwood.

He's the voice of Batman and Bruce Wayne and, you know, arguably the best animated Batman movie under the red hood. And he's just an all-around great actor. So when he came in and he played Pike in one and a half movies, you know, I was there for it. I loved it. And then Anson Mountain came in and killed it. And this proto-Pike is the worst pike. Even the pike that was on... I kind of feel like your answer is being washed out by your previous experience with pike.

Yeah. Like, to me, it sounds kind of like you're giving him a pass only because you're like, I know this character, and this character could be this, but we got this. Yes. No, totally. It kind of feels like that's how you're approaching it. Yeah, totally, because in my mind, this is all lower. It feels like a cop-o.

No. It feels like you're facing all the way. Like the other side. No, this is all lower. Like in the end, this episode's canon, right? Yeah. Okay. So this is all lower. This is all Star Trek lore. So you have to understand that this Pike is the same Pike

that shows up in the Menagerie episode where he's hooked up to a motor roller pager. And later on in discovery played by Ansem out, this is the same character different interpretations. So yeah, you have to chart that progress. So that's another strike for you, Brad. I mean, I think I took a few things from that what you said, and you know, one obviously is like, you got to give it the benefit of the doubt, and two, you're into SNM, so it's okay.

It's voyeurism. What's wrong with you? How dare you confuse the two? Correction, correction, please, please, do I make note? I have a strike. How many strikes do we get in this show? I will add it to the log right Listen at a certain point. I'm gonna run out of strikes to give you so I'm just gonna give you Demerats

And we're gonna see how many to marries you get at the end of our season 10 points for Griffindor, right? Okay, don't do that don't act like you're a hot Harry Potter nerd. Oh I totally got don't I read all the books and everything. Nobody cares. I know how to read, right? Like I read things. Prove it. You say you can't. You can't read. I can go. I can go grab the books from my closet and I can show you and everything. Look right into the camera as you do it. Do not break eye contact. No, all right, what done? I wasn't this app. Brandy can said, I don't need to know how to read in order to lead. No, no, that was

that was Arnold Schwarzenegger from a distance movie. Oh, that's a sense. I was elected to lead not to read. Right, right, right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyway, so I can tell we gave Anyway, so I can tell we gave very, very low reviews overall for this episode. And as the listeners can probably hear, it was not a most thrilling adventure for us. No. With that said, though, if you want to learn, you want to learn about history, you want to see how well the show progress from there, it is worth getting an understanding of, but can quite easily be passed upon.

So just keep that in mind. So what are we going to look towards next week? Going to the man trap, right? It's called the man trap. Original air date was September 8, 1966. This is the actual premiere of the series, which is pretty cool. Oh my god, there's an episode called Naked Time. I am totally looking forward to that. Uh, yeah.

That's where my one is going to land. Naked time. Isn't that the one where they go crazy? Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. You... Stop it. You want more strikes? You want more demarrants? Stop spoiling stuff for me.

Let, let, let, listen, let me live for the episode called naked time. Let it disappoint. Let's talk, let's, let's talk about the band trap. The enterprise visits Planet M113 for routine medical examinations of the husband and wife archaeological team station there, but the woman has been replaced by a shape-shifting creature. Ooh, forced to survive by extracting the salt from the bodies of the crew, killing them. You know what?

I'm going to watch that one the lights on. It's probably not a terrible idea. I love how in the Star Trek universe, there's so few shape shifting species yet for some reason they come across a lot of them. Right, there's more shape shifting Pokemon than there are aliens. Hmm, true story. Majid, I know you haven't seen this episode, Brad, have you seen this one before?

Uh, no, I'm pretty certain. I think I may have seen parts because like I saw, like the picture of the alien looks familiar, but I'm pretty sure I did not. This one's not so bad, at least I don't remember it being terrible. So I'm kind of looking forward to this. So apparently it was the first to be released, but number six to be produced. Right. Interesting. So keep that in mind as you're watching it, because the next episode, things are all different.

Yeah, that probably explains the first five minutes for me, where I just kind of felt like everybody was very comfortable with each other. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to. We actually get to see a lot of like we get to see Star Trek. To me, this is the true you know, cast crew of the original series so we can get to see them.

Yeah. All right. It's gonna be fun. Yeah. I can't wait for that. What was nice about watching the episode last night was Kylo. Kylo was nice enough to hang out with me while I was watching the episode. So I'm hoping that could be our thing. Stalo. That's cool. Yes. Stalo and I we watch like it's always sunny and Philadelphia together. So Kylo and I can have Star Trek. Still has a big fan of the bird, huh? Hey.

She is. She is. She is. She is. All right. You guys have anything else about the episode? You want to get a few chests? We'd like to thank all of our listeners

for tuning in this week for yet another Star Trek podcast and hope you enjoyed the episode. Tune in next week for more shenanigans and fun. Everybody have a go on, take care. Thanks for listening to yet another Star Trek Podcast. We're a part of the Retro Sessions Network. This episode was recorded on February 8th, 2022 and is hosted by myself Brad Drew Amigee. Additionally, Drew edits all

episodes except for when he doesn't, and then we don't have one. Our music warps speed and to the stars was written and performed by William Grubelar Music. Be sure to check him out on SoundCloud. We'll have the link in the show's notes. Want to chat with us on social media? We're just about everywhere. At yet another ST pod, want to drop us a line, email us at yet another ST pod at gmail.com. Next week we'll be watching the Man Trap. Watch along with us on Paramount Plus and let us know what you think of the episode. Want to support the show? The best way is to write a review and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts from. Don't forget

to subscribe too! That's pretty important. Remember, your doctor is just your doctor, except in Star Trek he's also your bartender. Thanks again, and we'll see you next week. you