Yet Another Star Trek Podcast - Ep 040: (PIC S03E03-E04) Seventeen Seconds & No Win Scenario (Dual Review)

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Star Trek: Picard Season 3 blasts forward at warp speed, and the adventures of Jean-Luc Picard continue with familiar faces. How do episodes 3 and 4 hold up? Do we need more than Seventeen Seconds to come to a conclusion, or is this season a No Win Scenario? Listen in to find out! Be sure to check out our website, social media, and join our Discord! Links for all are listed below: Website | Discord | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | TikTok | YouTube Drop us an email at [e-mail]! “Warp Speed” and "To the Stars" was written and performed by William Grobbelaar Music: https://soundcloud.com/williamgrobbelaarmusic Additional artwork by George Rateau: https://www.fiverr.com/georgerateau

Hey everybody welcome to yet another Star Trek podcast My name is Drew. I'll be house today. I'm joined by Brad I just did I just walk into some sort of like the Star Trek slash Russell media crossover Did it work? Yeah, man, like it was like I felt like right there We have the rock coming out soon and he's gonna be playing this Smackdown and you have, you know, Ryker going there to do the legover stomp right there, you know? The Ryker legover stomp. Oh man.

I'm glad you got that. I, so, so, I don't know what happened. I'm glad you got that. I so so I don't know what happened. I just kind of came up with that on the fly as most of the things that come out of my mouth tend to be just very little planning on this side of the the podcast, but I'm so tired. Brad, I am so tired and I was, as I was doing this guttural, you know, announcement, I was hoping that maybe it would give me some energy, kind of like how the Klingons warn the dead. And I think it may have worked. Oh, that's good.

Man, just see what it is. You just gotta scream at the top of your lungs. Yeah. Hopefully that doesn't bother your cats or wife. I mean, they're kind of used to it at this point. How are you doing, man? You know what? It's funny. I'm the one with the the newborn baby or at least I say close to newborn baby and I probably got more sleep than you did last night than I've had probably in like so long. You know what man I'm not gonna compare sleep. I'm not gonna sleep, shame you. I'm happy for you. I am. I'm really glad because you deserve it man. You've

you've had a rough go in the sleep department in these past few months and I'm really happy to hear that you got a good nice rest. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. It's been so long since you and I have chatted to a whole 24 hours apparently. Yeah, it's kind of cool. I like it. We should do this more often. I know, I know.

It's so much fun. You know, to just give the dear listeners an inside scoop, Majid has rejoined us from Starfleet Academy. He was temporarily held in the break for leaving in Upper Decker in the Admiral's office. We'll talk more about that and our other show with him. Yeah, you'll hear about that a few weeks from now because Brad and I have decided about that a few weeks from now because Brad and I have decided to veto all other episodes until season three of Picard comes to an end and we'll be bringing you these short synopsis. That's not that too much longer though. I mean, if you think about it, you know, it's

some two episodes per episode for us. It's only five episodes for for our show. Yeah, so so the loyal listeners don't worry. You'll you'll get your beloved sexy brown sugar back any day now. Oh my god. So Brad, we got two episodes of a card that we're going to talk about. 17 seconds is a record that we're going to talk about 17 seconds and no win scenario. No win scenario just came out yesterday. So that's the one that's hot off the presses. But before we talk about no win scenario, what do you say we rewind the clock a little bit?

Talk about 17 seconds. 17 seconds ago was, that was the WrestleMania thing, right? If yes, mail. ago was that was the WrestleMania thing, right? If yes, male. So, so you know, I actually didn't watch 17 seconds last week. I watched it, you know, on on Wednesday in anticipation of watching it or watching the fourth one on Thursday, just so I can have back to back coverage. And you know what, I'm quite frankly glad I did that. I was not as disheartened as I was. I think after watching 17 seconds that I could have been knowing that I would

only have to wait a few hours before I can watch the next one. Where you, did you walk away from this episode feeling disappointed in any way? You know, I'm not gonna lie to you. And yeah, there is a lot of points that really let me down in this episode. And I'll be honest, I was kind of surprised. Like we were at a steady pace, where things were going and

just 17 seconds and things kind of drop the ball. It only takes 17 seconds to screw up an entire series apparently. Yeah, man, like I walked away. I watched this episode last week when it aired and I walked away, I watched this episode last week when it aired, and I walked away feeling almost defeated because I had given so much hope to this show, and it just let me down in ways that I think most people would not anticipate. And then I started to think about some of the storyline possibilities. And I tried to put some pieces together and I was able to salvage, in my mind,

the possibility that maybe I just wasn't seeing a bigger picture. And then I was wrong. Everything was exactly as I thought it was. But then the next episode essentially just wiped the slate clean and just, it didn't erase erase my fears to just ignore them Yeah, I can I can say that like it it changed the direction there were I do have to say there were some points in 17 seconds I actually enjoyed

Well, let's dive into it. Let's let's hash this episode out So so we start with Let's hash this episode out. So we start with in the past, actually, with this episode. We start, I don't remember how long ago it was, but it was the bar 10 forward, guidance bar on Earth, I believe. And it's a Picard and a Riker kind of toasting each other, congratulating on everything that's going on. And it's, I guess the,

if I'm understanding correctly, it's the birth of Riker's son. Yes, and it's also the birth of a horrible de-aging CG. My God. You know, see, honestly, like I, My god, you know see honestly like I I It's not did you know it's not the D aging that there really shows for me honestly It's the the sound of bookards voice

Now I know you mentioned that you recently did a rewatch from TNG and like I think about how Patrick Stewart has aged over the years. And even from the last movie we saw him in for Star Trek, he definitely has a much more tired old man type of vibe for his voice in the Picard series. And honestly, in that, that going back in time sequence, it just basically didn't change anything with his voice. They just tried to mask it with the makeup.

I, the thing that I think frustrates me is that like, Picard is, Patrick Stewart is clearly playing an old man. Now Patrick Stewart's not a spring chicken, right? He's older than, or as old as William Shatner, I believe, right? He's up there. But I feel like, like, if you listen to Patrick Stewart in a interview, I don't feel like he speaks like an old man.

He talks normal and I feel like Picard is being played like an old man. Like this is an acting choice that Patrick Stewart has made. I'm not a fan of it. You know, I agree, because it just, you know, I think I texted you today and I was like, this is another episode of Grumpy Olds, men, the next generation.

Crumpy old men, the next generation. Yeah, that's accurate. That's accurate. Cause it's just, you know, the old boys kind of going around and you know, it's like, oh my back, or my back kind of attitude, or oh man, my knee is giving out. Yeah. But thankfully we don't last too long on that background scene of yesterday's and we go back to present

day Titan where the chip is getting the lack of the better word chip beat out of it. The ship is getting the ship beat out of it. You know, Frank's would love that crap, man. Well Frank's is not here and he's probably not listening to this because he doesn't want to show. So yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, that's true. That's fair. That's fair. But the, you know, the whole tit for tat type of attitude, they're getting their crap beat out of them. You have the Titan kind of going downhill, and then you have Jack Crusher being like the noble, hey, just just just give me up type of attitude the entire episode. Man, you know what I appreciate it. I'll be fully honest. I watched this episode, like less than probably two days ago, and it's a blur. I don't remember much of it.

Honestly, that's how how much a resonated. There's only like a few points in this episode that really kind of stuck with me. Yeah. Well, there were, there were a couple of scenes that I think were really prominent, you know, There's only like a few points in this episode that really kind of stuck with me. Yeah. Well, there were a couple of scenes that I think were really prominent, you know. And while the action scenes were cool, you know, they all basically led to, you know, they were all means to an end. The, this is where things kind of go worse.

The, I don't remember the enemy ships name at the moment But the end of the ship is just the strike strike strike the strike just is destroying them They have the portal gun technology we find out in this this episode and they're playing a good game of portal They're they're playing like hey, you know what let's let's suck suck the ship back into the nebula. Let's not let them leave You know to to be fully honest it was a whole lot of nothing actually gets accomplished in this episode right and What what in truly turn ends this part is that it's just The ship gets damaged the the actual ship's captain gets in capacity,

and he kind of gives the command to Riker. Yeah, so the Titan gets a crap kicked out of it. Captain Shaw smacks his head on a bulkhead or on the deck or something. It ends up ending up going to sick bay with, you know, he's got like a bone protruding from his leg as well too. Let's not forget and gives command to the ship to riker like out of spite. Right. Get me out of this mess. Yeah, he's like, you got me into this. Get us out of it. Right.

And now meanwhile, Picard does approach Beverly and they finally have a conversation. And boy, was this an uncomfortable one, wasn't it? Yeah, you know, it did not. I had mixed feelings about it. I'm not sure about you like I was torn between like I liked it and hated the exact same time I I felt like the the conversation was a legitimate conversation between Picard and Beverly where the cards like widened should tell me and Beverly It was like I made attempts but realized that that's life that you live is no life that I want to raise my son in. You know, I appreciated her attempts, right?

She gave a whole laundry list of attempts that she had made to talk to Sean Luke about this child. It wasn't like, oh, you know, I tried to call you or I tried to speak to you once or twice. It was like seven, eight, nine times. It was exhausting. And how many times she listed? And each time she listed it, she listed a reason why she didn't tell him. And it was like he got captured where he got called away for some sort of thing. Right.

And it was like, they were all valid reasons. Like I cannot falter one bit for just being like, and it's funny. Like when, you know, Picard has at this point of, hey, you know, if you told me I would have changed my life, I would have pushed my life, I would have pushed my life to be different. That was his argument. He claims, you know, Beverly made the choice for him. He didn't actually have that opportunity. And from her defense is that he always gets sucked

in. It's not necessarily if it was about one thing it's gonna be something else that will stick him in and he Would not be able to say no Yeah, she was arguing that whether or not he made the choice to have Jack in his life somebody else would make the choice for him Which is a valid concern, you know I I was not expecting her reasoning to add up. And I think it really did. You know, that's kind of why I actually liked it.

I think because the logic behind it actually made sense the way she described it. I was like, okay, that's an acceptable answer. The reason why I didn't really like it is because it was just such painful to watch for me. That just it felt... It did feel a little bit... The chemistry wasn't there is what I once thought there would be between Beverly and Picard. It just didn't feel like the same chemistry from what I remember. And that's kind of why I felt a little awkward for me.

Do you think that the chemistry was awkward because the characters themselves were in an awkward situation? Do you think that the actors were coming through or do you think that they just lost the chemistry that they had when they were filming TNG? I think they lost the chemistry from TNG. I kind of felt like the chemistry was there a little bit more prominently in the following episode.

Yes. So, I'm kind of inclined to believe that it was just an acting choice, and one that I think they succeeded at. Like, I know, you know, you and I have talked about like film studies and some of our shows that we like in the past. And like, think back to that scene in the sick bay, when the two of them are starting their conversation, they are so far apart from each other. And it's, it's, it's representing the distance that they've put between them. There's all these sick beds in between them. And eventually they start to move closer and closer as they talk and start to bond over

the situation. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. I didn't think about it that way, where it's more of a choice. But I guess, yeah, thinking about the following episode, there was a lot, the chemistry was there compared to that one. Yeah, I guess you're right. Maybe it was just the difficult conversation they have and they purposely made it a very awkward because it made me feel uncomfortable. And I guess that was the point is to make the

audience feel uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, I think it worked. Yeah, definitely. So not not all the fun is happening on the Titan though. I mean, we are having some fun on the Lasarena, right? Yeah. Rafi is in the cabin and she hears music playing from down the hallway and it's Warf practicing sword drills. He's using his his curleth and it's listening to some some opera. You know I feel I felt like they they could have handled that introduction for war for a little better.

And that's another area that I was kind of very met about. So, so you're saying he was doing sordrels, right? Yeah. What is one of the things that he first says to Raffi is like, I've changed. I've changed my ways as to how I handle myself. And to me, I think it would have been more appropriate if it went to him doing meditation. I could agree with that because this is the same wharf that we know doing those drills, right? This is very familiar wharf. Whurf in the Hollow Suite of Devis 9, you know, doing his coddits. But his introduction of I am Wurf, son of Mogue, son of, oh, that gave me a chance to go in.

That was a little down. House of Mar-Tak. He was just like listing the credentials and it's all families that he is a part of and I loved it. Oh that that part was great. I just It was just that one thing I was like I felt like it was a missed opportunity Yeah, I was just like oh man because you you I think it was more of like those hindsight 2020 where it's like oh tell me afterwards

I think that would have been a better approach to it Did you um have you seen the memes where they take the warf son of Mogue, house of Rojenko stuff and put it on a Starbucks cup? No, no, if that's his, that's his order. Like, you know, how when you order from Starbucks, you give him your name. And that's the name he gives them and somebody scribbles all of that. I have not, I have not seen that as hollyers. It is delightful. I have not, I have not seen that as hilarious. I'll do it. It is delightful.

I will send it to you. Man, carry on. But I think I'm a little bit disappointed overall with the story arc for Rafi and Worf. Okay. And I'm not disappointed with like, they're acting. I'm not disappointed with like,

how, how thing, like what their path is. But to me, it felt like the writers were taking a very simplistic approach towards getting to the point where they wanted to get because they know that they need to find some guy and they need to grab them for more information. And you know what, as soon as they cut to them trying to go get this guy, I was like, man, this is the exact same scenes they were just reusing. They just went down the street and changed the camera angle. And I was disappointed that they didn't try to take more effort to build up the environment, maybe make it in

like a bar or something, or some location that they had to go to. It just felt like they didn't really care too much as far as the budgetary stuff And so they're like oh, we're gonna use that somewhere else So this part doesn't really matter so we're just not gonna put too much effort in that Yeah, the whole of seed where they're hunting down the what we later find out is a changeling when they're hunting him down It just felt very rushed and very quick and You know they keep going back to the same planet, Mattalus Prime.

And yeah, it felt like the whole thing with them was just not fast forward so that they can introduce the plot point of the changeling over on the Titan. Yeah. And so I do want to talk about the changeling part. But to me, it was a bit of a disappointment that they didn't go, I don't know, a little more detail, a little bit more driving, you know, to drag me into that environment. It was just more of like a, hey, I got to get the story along.

Let's just do this type of approach. Yeah. I mean, for all I know, it's like the exact same location where Worf chopped the Faringie's head off. Like, that's it was pretty close. Yeah, so to me, like then what's the driving motivation is to why we're not going to a different place where probably people know that you've chopped

somebody's head off. Well, I think I'm a talist prime nobody cares. That's a vibe that I'm getting. That's a fair, that's fair. You know, but so so drew you mentioned the the alpha in the room for me. Change things. Yeah. So what you think?

What you think, man? Um, I'm I'm I'm I'm board for it. I'm not sure if the execution was quite where I wanted it to be. Um, it does feel a little pigeonholed, but I'm not opposed to it because the Dominion War was, I would say, my favorite thing of Star Trek may be ever. Right? Like it's a high bar. Like we've got we've got Khan, we've got Star Trek 6 and discovered country. We've got best of both worlds and the Dominion War. Those are like my four four out of my five top favorite things in Star Trek ever. And granted

like you can't really compare them all because you know the Dominion War spanned like four seasons but whatever. I got did you did you know immediately as soon as you for saw that first like ripple of the character. I called it. I totally I totally called that one. I don't know if I wasn't I don't know if I wasn't paying attention fully or if I just wasn't thinking in those terms. I'm trying to remember the circumstances and when I watched the episode. But no, I was not thinking along those lines. So once they started really drilling into them and then obviously he turned into goo. I was kind of caught off guard by that, but I really didn't see it coming. I called it because I saw the ripple when they were

on the Titan and we see the guy, Jack is fighting the guy and something happened. It was like, was that a changeling? And then I was like, no, that can't be a change-ling. That doesn't make much sense. And then the end scene where the guy turns the goo, I kind of want to talk a little bit like the next episode. We see more of the change-ling in the episode that I just was released on Thursday. So thinking about DS9, the wonderful, wonderful special effects and how we, how we see it today, what are your thoughts on how they, they differ?

Um, I mean, I'm kind of over, I'm kind of over it. Like, like, here's, here's the thing, man. They got so much more money now. And they've gotten so good with the CG, the CG in DS9 was the same CG that they used in Terminator, but with a fraction of the budget. You know, like we're talking Terminator to the T1000, the morphing technology. So I think, like, I think we knew deep down inside like it wasn't the greatest, but we accepted it. And as being lifelong Star Trek fans, when we accept something, we accept it for life. So, so if you think about deep space nine, the morph, I don't, I don't really know how to describe it, the more The way they morph was more of like a metallic type of approach, more fluid, liquid,

like that. This one is, how can I properly describe it? It's more like fleshy, organic-looking. Yeah. Have you ever played the game, Carian? Yes. It kind of looked at you. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean Do you like it? Um, I liked it better in the second episode. Okay.

And it made more sense to me. Okay. But before we get into the second episode, let's go back to how the first one ends with them trying to escape. The strike strike. Is it strike you said? Yeah. Strike just like not to destroy them, but like basically beat some beats deliver living heck out of them.

And it gets to a point where Picard goes to Rikers like we need to attack. We can't just run away. Riker listens to him. Yeah. So they don't, like we talked briefly about the portal gun, but they didn't bust that out until almost the end of the episode if I recall, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So like that's kind of a big deal. They are just literally opening up a wormhole in space with two points and just the ship goes into one, comes out the other. And if the listeners have played the game portal, they'll know exactly what we're talking about. It's exactly like that. But if you're not, like, just imagine, like, looking across the room and there's a hole in the wall, and you could see in the hole in the wall, another wall from within the room. And there's another portal like that's connecting it. If you walk through point A, you come out of point B

no matter where they place it. And they started using this to their advantage. Like they were essentially ensnaring the Titan. You know, they're dropping a portal right in front of the thing, so it has no way of stopping. It goes through the portal, and it comes back out again, right in front of their own weapons.

And then eventually the Titan shoots itself. Yep. That's what I was gonna say is like, they just basically shoot off, like I don't remember how many missiles out is like five or something like that. And they they open the portal and automatically hits the tie-in in the back. Yeah. It's uh it's pretty sick. It was it was it was a much better um uh attack than throwing a ship at them. Yeah, I would agree.

I would agree. But at that point, that's after Prokard convinces Reiker to attack. And they end the episode with them sinking further and further into the nebula. And Reiker's just like, Prokard, get off the bridge, like, you just killed us. This is where I lost my shit. This is the part that pissed me off. Really, really. That was so uncharacteristic of Riker.

And the way he behaved was just absolutely childish. Like he is a professional officer and he's never said anything like that that I recall to somebody, especially somebody of a higher rank. I think I disagree with you only because what Picard said before they attacked, which was like, it's time, like no time to be afraid.

And it was like a blame reference to Riker losing his son kind of. So you're saying that Picard hit a low blow? Yeah, okay. And that's why he kicked him off is because it's based upon that. I mean, obviously, I would need to like rewatch it to kind of keep that in the back of my mind. If that's the case, then, then sure, I would agree with you.

But the thing that bothered me the most is just, I don't know, these two have, they've spent so much time on this show establishing how close of a relationship that they have, which I can buy into because although the bridge of the Enterprise was very professional, those two served together so long and saved each other's lives for so many times that like it's plausible that they would have a very warm and friendly outside of work relationship, right? Yeah. So for Riker to behave in that context, let's just assume that like, you know, you and I haven't just discussed it.

To me, like that was just infuriating. And it wasn't, it took me like 24 to 48 hours to kind of sit on it. And then I started wondering, well, maybe one of them is a changeling. And that would explain the behavior. OK. I don't... So you can imagine my disappointment

when that was all dressed. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I get it. I see what you're saying. Yeah, and then, see, episode four, they don't really bring it up. I really think though it's it was related towards Picard's comments about the 17 seconds and that's a reference to like the sun that he lost. And I think that was the low blow that that hurt. I could I could get behind that. I could get behind that. Because I mean after the after episode four,

the characters that we're following are exactly what they seem, right? I don't think with any credible speculation that anybody from Picard to Riker to Shaw, I don't think any of them were changed links at this point. But leaving episode three, that was something that I was concerned about. And it could have been either one of them based on that behavior and really could have been. It could have been Picard insisting that he attacked a Shrike knowing it was going to get them killed. It could have been Riker trying to run.

Or it could have been both of them knowing that there's a saboteur on the ship and trying to outst the saboteur by behaving in that manner, leaving an opening for somebody to quote, quote, gain the trust of the captain. Meanwhile, like, oh, it's all, it's all ruse, like to them fighting like they were in it, right? And none of those things. None of those came to fruition. None of those were true. None of those were true. So episode 4, no wind scenario. We again start in the past.

They love these flashbacks, don't they? So what? Fibers before? Yeah, it's like fibres prior. Yeah. Um, Picard is sitting down for his lunch dinner or something. I assume he's eating like a Ron Swanson steak. Yeah, that's appropriate.

But I think he was missing was a log of ooland. Yeah, I know. But this was also, I think, in 10 forward again, because that's their, their favorite go to prebuilt set. And Starfleet cadets approach, Picard, me like, oh my God, Picard, tell us about, you know, the stories, tell us about all these things. And they kind of go through this whole thing. And they, they, they revisit, the stories, tell us about all these things. And they kind of go through this whole thing and they they revisit once or twice again in the episode. But at least at the moment, it's it's not really too important.

Right. Then we cut back to the future or sorry, the present day and the Titans continually getting sucked into the actual gravity well. It's just getting deeper and deeper and deeper. All their systems are losing power. At this point, it seems like Rikers just saying, we're done. We need to make our preparations for our last will and testament type of attitude. And's kind of where where the tone is for everybody is that they're going to die right Now a seven of nine tells Riker that there's a change link on on the on the, sorry, a changeling that attacked Jack, and there's one that's on the Titan. Riker doesn't want her to make any announcements or tell anybody. And the whole reasoning is that he wants her to try and identify and find who, like,

who the changeling is. The, they do quickly show that the person, the changeling was impersonating, was found dead. And so that's, you know, obviously something that, like, they don't need to necessarily look but they do need to find, you know, find where that changeling is though. Right. Then Jack is in sick bay with his mother because he was exposed

to some sort of gas and you know we can see Beverly counting down before the waves of some sort of resonant hit the ship from the gravity well. And she's trying to do her best and I have to admit I don't think we touched on the first, sorry, episode three, but she really still knows her shit in the show. Yeah, I feel like out of all the characters, Beverly is the only one so far that hasn't lost a step. Like that feels like Beverly Crusher

from season seven to TNG. I feel, you know, I don't think so. I think it's the evolution that we saw in the movies even. Yes, yeah, you're correct, right? Like clearly, like she's had some stuff go down, right? Obviously she has a son now that is with her estranged former lover, Jean-Luc. But so like, her character has changed,

but not fundamentally. And that's a problem that I've had with a lot of Picard so far, is I feel like they've lost who these characters are fundamentally. I don't think, like people change, yes, I agree. I acknowledge that. I'm not the same person. I was five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. But I'm still true. Like, I mean, I haven't like become this radically different version of myself. I think I to me, but cars even changed. Yeah, I think he's the one that's that's changed the most. And I don't think that it's been a logical progression because it felt if you think about before during the movies and then TNG, he was so decisive. And this is how things are.

movies and TNG. He was so decisive. This is how things are. And when you see where he's at, it's just an old man who's just kind of unsure of certain things. And I don't feel the same same direction from from where they used to have him. Yeah. I agree. But going back to the episode, Riker talks to Picard and kind of gives him an encouragement to talk to Jack, take the time and actually have a conversation with them. And so they go, you know, what anybody would do and go to the holodeck and run a holodeck program of I was I was so pissed about this and then they dropped one line to like have hazardly explain how they're running a holodeck program while there's no power on the ship. So yeah, the Jack actually comments is like why do we have a working holodeck and Pic Picard's like, oh, holodecks are important for exactly times like these because they have their own dedicated power source and Yada yada. And you know what? Honestly, man, like to me that answer is kind of BS

and I think about I could think of like a better reason why? Thinking about like all those holodeck issue Why? Thinking about like all those holodeck issue episodes from all the TNG, they could have been like, oh, there's an emergency battery backup for this place, just in case like the ship loses power and there's some sort of catastrophe in the holodeck so people don't die. That's a perfect explanation, Brad. Like, that's me. Perfect. Because I think that would be great because like you can think about like some of those other things like the, they're like oh we're we're we're we're trend doing was a photonic light in these other things that you know for person like if

you just a may just shuts off the person could fall and they could injure themselves and they could be falling 10 20 feet that that would have been an acceptable answer more so than the oh you know we need to make sure people de-stress themselves. Well I think what he was trying to say without using the words is that this crew is under the belief that they're going to die and some of them may choose to die in a fantasy. Fair. That's fair. And like if that was, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, which I believe I am, it sounds like it's Starfleet trying to be humane

about, you know, eminent death, certain death. It's a kin to giving these folks like a pill that they could take, so they have control over how and when they go, you know. Yeah. And that's the vibe that I got. But I agree that your explanation makes infinitely more sense.

Yeah. Because you would think that like even in a life or death situation, the crew should probably be at their stations. Yeah, pretty much trying to do repairs, trying to figure something out, right, being curious and would have. That's something else that like I kinda like

got a little frustrated with about this episode because these crew like basically just gave up, they didn't really try to get out. They're just like, oh, well, everything is draining power. I guess we're just going to die now. Yeah, I think that was one of the, if you think about other episodes of all the Star Trek series, it's never the only to give up. Let's work down to the wire till like the very end type of attitude.

Right. So that was a, it was a frustration point, but I just didn't, I didn't let it bother me too much. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was just there. It was, it was a thing that happened. So we cut to seven to nine. She goes to Captain Shaw and she's like,

hey, this is a situation we have a change really on board. You know, this is what's going on, this is what's happening. And he gives her the idea of, you know, we need to find like goo, like their goo bucket or something. I'm, that's what it was. That's why he was calling. like goo, like they're goo bucket or something?

I remember. Goo, that's what he was calling it. This is Shah being like clever, you know? Like trying to be clever. So in other words, they wanted to go find the thing that they go into their liquid form, they just mail out for. So they can regenerate. They go into their liquid form, they just mail out for.

So they can regenerate. And it was funny, like, there was a line that Shaud did, I can't remember exactly what it was. It was him giving seven advice of like, hey, how do you go about telling who's a changeling? And he's like blah, blah, blah, you got to look for abnormal behaviors and all this stuff. And he's like, you know, all said and done, you know, through and through,

you're doing a good job and, you know, I truly appreciate you. And then he's like, that is what I would say if I was a changeling. Right. So the quote is memory of those come to through the rescue here. Look, you and I got off on the wrong foot. I underestimated you.

You have great instincts. You're a natural leader. Make a great captain one day, which is something I would totally say if you were a changeling and not just a dick. That's what seven said. And you know what? Honestly, man, like that was spot on perfect for the character.

Oh yeah, that, you know, I think I said in the last one is that I love to hate this guy. Oh, he's great. And, you know, this, this episode though does change me. My opinion a little bit. We'll get to that in a little bit more. But, you going back into 10 forward, Jack and Picard are trying to talk through their thing, trying to get to know each other. And more crews are showing up there because like, hey, we kind of give up over my breaks over or whatever. Right. Right. or whatever. Right, right. They're taking the emergency holograms

to the next level. They're like, yep, we don't wanna be on duty anymore. We're gonna die. So let's enjoy it while we can. And we watched seven. She actually finds the bucket, right? And I wanna comment on that part. So she goes to the crewman who died.

She is in the quarters and she finds the bucket in a little wall light console where it's clearly something is there. There's like zero effort in trying to hide this thing. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of things in this episode that moved along at the speed of plot. Yeah. That's one of them. And to me, it's, and I think they also determined that the guy who died, that the changeling was on the ship before any this ever, like any this started. Yeah. So they had, they, they come to the realization that like this, this is bigger than Jack

Crusher. And also Jack Crusher, they're starting to see these strange things, like something's going on with it. We don't really know what something's happening to them. But anyways, seven finds the, the, the, the, the, the residue. And she, she, she calls down to the bio chemistry lab, being like, Hey, we're going to need to scan this. And you're just so happens to crewmen are walking on on by and this one crewman shoots the other crewman in the back and then merely turns around and tries to kill seven. Yeah. But of course, you know, it was a changeling. She blows off one of his arms and he escapes into some sort of wall vents. sort of wall vents, yep, as the flesh goo like creature he is. That grossed me out.

I, you know, it makes more sense. I definitely understand the direction more so than the metallic. I think the metallic would have been just too cheesy. So I kind of wonder though, like did they try multiple different versions of that before they settled on this? That's a good question. I mean, I'm sure we'll find out eventually, you know, if that information isn't already out there from some interviews or something, it just like, I just wonder what they, what choices they would have made back in 1995, you know. I just wonder what choices they would have made back in 1995, you know, because like the technology just wasn't there. Yeah.

And I kind of feel like at least in the beginning, they're like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had a character that used the morphing technology from Terminator 2? And then they wrote Odo in to be that thing. Yeah, without having any sort of a plan for the dominion, right? Little did we know that you know three years later they would become like one of the most feared and favorite villains of the franchise. Yeah, but they actually felt yeah, I think they're only second to the board. See like I'm gonna go down this travel hole too much. The board were number one until Voyager for me. I really believe that Voyager just cut the, cut the balls out from the board. Fair, fair. So is the number one, the change links for you?

The dominion as a whole, not the change links specifically, but that whole triad of the change links, the Vorta and the Gemadar, and then how they were able to bring in the brain and the cardacians, like that whole alliance. Oh, yeah, that was that was that was rough. Yeah. I think I think it's to me, it's the board still is number one, then, then the minion and then Q. But, but anyways, we going back to to the Titan and we're go back to the 10 forward holodeck Picard and Jack are doing their bonding session with other people there and and Jack asked Picard about, you know, has he been in tougher spots? And so Picard starts to tell

on the story of when his namesake Jack Crusher, how Picard and him, you know, Commodir, the Shuttlecraft and things went awry and they kind of had to find the way back to the ship of like a very heroing adventure. Now this is where things get a little dicey with Shaw. Shaw has clearly disdain for Picard. Right. clearly Distain for Picard right he he is no no fan of Picard He's he's always been this way since since the introduction this series and Now we know why because Shaw was at the battle of Wolf 359 for the listeners who may not be aware wolf battle wolf 359 is a very famous star trek battle between the

Borg and Starfleet. I think I think it was something around the east of around 11,000 people died. Yeah, that's the first time I had a number put to it. So I wasn't really familiar with that, but I did know that a lot of Starfleet ships were destroyed during that battle. That was one of their first experiences or first major experiences with the board. And that was also the time when Picard was assimilated into the collective as Lecudus. And Charles was on one of the ships. He wasn't a captain. He was an engineer. And he was saying how, like, they, they ordered to abandon ship and they, you know, 50 of them made it down to the life pods. And only one life pod was functional, which could only hold 10 people.

and only one life pod was functional, which could only hold 10 people. And so the 50 people that were down there, they didn't fight, they didn't do anything. They just kind of waited for orders. And somebody of authority came down and apparently just started pointing at people, be like, you, you, you, you, go. And Shaw was one of them.

And so he, you know, just left, just completely dumbfounded by the sheer luck of it that he escaped with his life. And he is hovering that guilt. Clearly, it's clearly guilt and anger towards Picard. And you know what, it's funny, Drew. Like we always talk about Picard being like the hero and he's the guy, the man to take care of things.

And honestly, after you put it to like that type of light, I kind of have like a level of respect for that character now. For sure, yeah. And to under, I have a better understanding. I don't necessarily agree with his frustration in his sense because, you know, we all know of the Borg, but I have a better understanding and respect to him. Yeah. I mean, I do too. He doesn't just come off as just like a guy who's being a dick,

just be a dick, you know, it's, it's similar to the way that Cisco felt about Picard when they first met because, you know, Cisco's wife was killed during the battle of Wolf 359. That is, Wolf 359 is there 9.11. You feel, you know, minus, well, I mean, yeah, you know, there were 40 ships, they got destroyed. And all of these ships were on other missions. So they had families on board. They were not expecting to go to war. So imagine like you're in the middle of like, you know, scanning some plants, checking for like, you know, bees pollinating plants on a planet. And all of a sudden you get a phone call from your captain. And it's like, beam up. We got to go fight the Borg.

And then the battle lasts like 20 minutes. And so it's, it's kind of understanding to where Shaw has this like anger towards uh, Picard. And you know what? Shaw has this anger towards Picard. You know what? Also, it gave me an understanding as to why he didn't give control to Picard. And it also explains why he doesn't refer to seven as seven. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, like, Shaw is clearly harboring some guilt about being one of those ten that's picked as well too. This isn't just hatred to Picard. Like, this guy's got some internal issues. You know, that he's hiding behind sarcasm. Mm-hmm. And I think at this point, we can't necessarily blame him for that.

I don't. And so, around this point, Beverly is meeting, I believe, with Picard and Riker. And they have this, or I believe no, no, it was Picard and Jack. I think Beverly was mentioning to that the waves that they're feeling that are coming in is kind of like labor. Is some sort of, I don't know, she's a doctor, she could count them, I guess. Well, she was counting the time between the waves and counting them down and noticing

that they were getting to be closer and closer together, kind of like contractions, I guess. Yeah. And yeah, there was a little bit out there, have some sort of giant space species in a nebula, but they do it before, and I'll give them a pass. But they devise a plan, they go to Riker, and they devise a plan on how to use that to their advantage.

Riker then becomes a little bit more friendly and on board with it and they like, oh man, things are not lost. And let's go ahead and try to start gearing up for that final push. Right. That was a joke, a labor joke. Oh, I'm tired, man.

I can tell. I'm sorry. I'm tired, man. I can tell. I'm sorry. So they are doing their preparations for it. The thing is though, the Titan has very old, I guess, engines and they end up needing Shaw to help out with that final, yeah, repair.

And so he kind of comes in through as the engineer that could. So there was this offhanded comment in like episode one where they're talking about this ship being a refit and how it's been refitted multiple times. And I guess the only thing that's still original to the ship are the in the cells. Yeah, yeah. And then you do the in the cells to do is. And apparently like, you know, none of the new engineers would know how to do what, what needed to be done because they've never had to do it. And it's, it's outside of their scope, you know, it's like you got to get the old guard

to come in with the wrench and the grease and get it done, you know. And it's, it's kind of got to get the old guard to come in with the wrench and the grease and get it done, you know. And it's kind of funny. And that's uns... But the... It gave shot purpose. It did. It did. And the rest of the crew sorts,

you know, fitting things and getting things ready for this, this change. I, I, I remember correctly, there was really not much else in this act right here. We just move on to act four of the episode. Mm-hmm. Pretty much. And this is where everybody gets prepared to actually go through the plan. I think, you know, actually one thing I did miss is that back on the strike, what was the villain's name? Vatic, Vatic, it turns out Vatic is a changeling. Yeah, so I wasn't really sure how to read this when I saw it,

because I wasn't sure if Vatic was a changeling or if she just had like changeling tech. Well, it seems like she cut her hand off. Yeah. And she purposely did it so that she can put into some sort of like saucepan that resonates and does like a communication system. I wasn't sure if she cut her hand off or if she cut off something that was attached to her hand like a glove. That's fair. But I think I'm pretty sure she actually cut her hand off.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she cut her hand off and I'm pretty sure she's a changeling. If not future episodes will correct me. I guess so, yeah. But that was a, now that we're, we know we're dealing with changelings, that didn't really turn out to be a surprise to me. It just was like, okay, cool, more plot. And then the, it turns out though, whoever she's communicating with really wants Jack, like, so much to a point where everything is expendable. And Vatic says, if we go after them,

we were gonna have to ditch the portal technology because it's gonna be unstable in that type of environment. And so they end up just detaching the portal technology from their ship so they can't use it and they go after the Titan. And so when the crew of the Titan are trying to go through with the whole plot or with everything, they are making it away so that only seven and Shaw are in the

are in the the the the the the Nassel's room. So and then nobody else is to to come down like they are clearly make that clear to um to Riker. Right. And while they're working on it, uh, who does show up a LeForge? Yeah. Um, she, she shows up and says, uh, you know, I was sent down by the captain, I'm here to help my father. He was a famous engineer. So I picked up a thing or two. And Sean's kind of looking at her and she's kind of asking, I can't remember what exactly was, she was asking like some weird question

that was kind of like, I don't know. And seven shows up with a gun against her head. And it's like, you know, what are you doing here? And she's like, I'm here to help. And I think it was, uh, is like, you know, you're here to help what? They could kind of like, you know, use a sur or ma'am. And she was, I'm here to help. Um, Hanaka, I think it was. Well, yeah, so she says, she calls her commander. She's like, commander what? She says, commander Hansen. Yes.

And she shoots her like immediately. And she's like, you know, LaForge doesn't call me commander Hansen. She calls me commander seven out of respect. And she puts, she puts a little bit on extra on that respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just for sure. of course, LaForge was a changeling. That was the changeling era. And they, they, I guess, changed how they die. And so the changeling just went back into LaForge's body, like frozen in that way, I guess. Yeah, I guess.

That's what it seemed like. It did. It did, didn't it? But anyways, the seven and Shaw get things fit up in time for that final push. They use it to kind of escape the nebula. I think they also see some squids around that are being birthed from the nebula, I guess. And they make it way to leave

and the shrike is kind of in their way, but you know what they do? They like to say, hey, you know what goes around comes around and they tractor being a giant freaking rock and smashes it into face. Rikers like, yeah, do you want an asteroid? Cause here's an asteroid. Pretty much, pretty much.

That was fun. Oh, it was. It was. That was fun. And then I think, I don't know, I'm probably saying this out of order, but they end up escape. But the one thing that I want to leave us on is going back to that 10 to forward, like five years prior.

And we see the Kedetsard's kind of like Schum away But like hey, I'm trying to to eat my lunch here. He has like leave me alone finally Yeah, and one guy sitting at the bar Turns out to be Jack is like did you know Did you miss having a family or something like the long those lines and he's like star star fleets my family. That was his answer. And I think at one point, like it cuts into the Picard and Picard realizes what that that had happened in the past. Yeah, it's like at that moment, he remembered having that conversation. Yep. And that's why Jack never, never really

wanted to talk to him. Oh, you know, I almost, almost forgot, though, one last thing before we get into talk on this is that the episode ends with Jack splash your water on his face. And then he starts hallucinating or something, starting to hear voices, saying, find me together soon, is some like version of an apocalypse in a door opening. So I'm not entirely sure what that's about. But I do have a theory in the theory I have is that Jack and Beverly are change links. Really? Yes. And that's the only reason why they want Jack.

I mean, Beverly may not be a change link. She may just be like trying to help Jack, but is, maybe she believes that he's her son because of some sort of mind control. But I don't, I think it's going to be one of those things where they don't actually know their changelings until the very end where they're like, oh, we're changelings, we're doing this because we're trying to prevent a war or something like that. So you think they're like sleeper agents, not sleeper agents, but they're,

they're people that they were changelings and they don't like the direction where the dominion was trying this the splinter solve the dominion trying to go I think it's more of them trying to like protect We'll obviously see in about a few more episodes of any of that holds water. I gotta be honest with you, man. I'm not feeling that theory. I'm okay with, you know, theorizing, but that was a little weird. Hey, man, I'm that picture of that thing from Always Not Even Field of Alphew,

where it's like pointing at the wall and all the strings are connected, that's me right here. Carol! Carol! Pretty much. Pretty much. Oh, God. That's funny.

What do you think of these two episodes? So I like the second one a lot better. Episode four felt like it actually had purpose. Episode three, it just felt like nothing really happened. Well, three I feel like was a setup for four. Yeah, I don't think you can have one without the other. Oh, no, no, no, you definitely couldn't, but I think it's the whole point of three was just to have four. Right.

And to me, like, you know, it's kind of stupid to say that, of course, you know, three is two four, but like to me, I'd rather have a self-contained episode to a point where there's a reason for this episode, not to build up the next episode. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that we're going to, we're going to get those self-contained episodes in this show. I'm afraid. I'm afraid. Well, at this point, though, it does feel like we've reached a point where we're out of like chapter one, we're out of part one of the season because part one felt like them finding

Beverly and Jack and then trying to save them. Part two, unless they continue on the Titan, which I don't think they're going to, I think we're going to probably either see some sort of separation from the Titan. At this point, maybe them going separate ways or maybe going to another ship, but I think that's where things are going to change into the next section going forward. Well, I mean, we still have other characters to to to remete, you know, we haven't encountered Jordi yet We've only spoken to Diana through video calls And then Warp is not even like a part of

Like I've met the crew yet, so right right and I mean, is there anybody else that I'm missing? I mean you have all the was a Tasha Yard, her, her Romulan grandchild. Oh, Cila, yeah, I suppose I suppose Cila could show up. And then there was the other. I remember, I remember early promo show and Moriarty showing up in some capacity. Wait, really? You know, yeah, no way, that would be freaking cool, man. promo show and Moriarty showing up in some capacity. Wait, really?

Yeah. No way, that would be freaking cool, man. They announced him as, he was one of the first announcements. They made one say announce that they were doing an X-Gen. Is it the actual actor or is it going to be their... I believe so. No, I believe it's the same actor. That is, that is trippy, man.

And I was expecting him to show up on the Titan like in that scene and 10 forward. I was expecting Picard to be like, oh I have a friend who can help me. Yeah. But yeah. But then like now I'm thinking about it too. Like let's let's talk theories here is Moriarty what did Dominion Stoll from Daystrom because they were going to bring Moriarty, what did Dominion stole from Daystrum? Because they were going to bring Moriarty to the Daystrum Institute so that he can be studied. That's true. I also remember hearing that that lore is on this season too. Well Brent Spiner is.

We don't know who he's playing. I heard a rumor is there. That's what I heard. It's a rumor. I don't know if it's true, but I mean Brent is like he plays 20 different characters of fuels Yeah, but they're all they're all soons like Maybe this is another one You know, it's it's funny like I hope for other

Cameos that are not expected like I do kind of hope Odo shows up that would be really cool. Yeah, it would be. But I'm pretty sure he's not going to. But it would be nice to see other cast members. You know, it's funny, though, Drew. Like we always like we kind of fanboy out with having all these, you know, old characters from the previous series.

And it's kind of reached the point where I'm kind of like I'm torn, where I love it, but hate it the exact same time. Because I would like to see more stories that are new and fresh. While these still are new stories, it doesn't feel as fresh like strange new worlds. I would agree. Yeah. You know, I think strange new worlds hit that nice balance between having

quote familiar characters and a bunch of new characters, you know. Most of the characters that they brought in from previous episodes with the exception of Spock were largely undeveloped. You know, Nurse Chapel was only in a handful of episodes to Star Trek. He had Dr. Mbenga, who I think was in one or two episodes. And Ujara, man. Like, yeah, she, she, even though she was in like the most of the TOS, like the from we were almost

done with the first season. And she has almost no airtime when you think about it. I was talking about that yesterday. And I love having her as a character on on Strangest and Worlds. But, but with Picard though, I think the direction we're going is good. I hope it's not just fanboy homage to the entire rest of the season. I hope there's actual points in logical plot points to continue. But if it progresses in the direction that's going, I am confident I will enjoy the rest of the season. However, the episode three I think is an example of, you got to be careful because it's not a guarantee.

Yeah, I think episode three is probably the weakest one thus far. And like again, that's okay. You know, the use is a setup for episode four. Like, that's fine, the uses a setup for episode four, like that's fine. I do think there was a lot of good in there. I think they just kind of jumped the shark a little bit towards the end. But, you know, like I'm still into the show, like I'm still on board for it. I haven't found myself, you know, being too infuriated.

So, so they're doing something right, you know? Yeah, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next in the upcoming episodes. Yeah, me as well. Me as well. If the else you want to cover, sir, no, I'm tired. I'm ready to go to bed. It's 8, 10. It is, it is almost my bedtime. What I want to close to, I wish I was joking. Want to close this out, buddy? Yeah, I'll do that. Folks, really appreciate you listening. We'll be back again in two weeks with some more Star Trek

Procards season three coverage and stick around because after that, we're going to be jumping back into the original series with a good friend, Majid. Brad, as always, it is wonderful to chat with you. You as well, sir. And you hold on, hold on. Can we talk about the hesitation in your voice there? You know, I was just trying to make sure the words I say is appropriate to your attitude. I don't like your attitude, Brad. Get some sleep, my friend. You deserve it. I will. Good night, everybody. Take care. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to yet another Star Trek podcast. We are a part of the retrocessions network.

This episode was recorded on March 10, 2023. It's hosted by myself Drew and I was joined by Brad. Special thanks to Majeed, who wasn't able to be here today, but he is responsible for taking care of all of our social media. Thanks buddy, we miss you. Brad writes the synopsis for the episodes, and I take care of all the editing. Of course, we also have some help from two very good friends

of ours, First, George or Tau, for taking the time to make us look like lower-decks characters. And William Grobalar for composing our wonderful music, Warp Speed, and two of the stars. Both of them are available on the web. Check them out, we have links in the show notes. You know what other kind of links we have in the show notes? Social media links and Discord links.

Social media like Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and Discord like Discord. So you can go chat with us about Star Trek or video games or maybe show us pictures of your cats and dogs and hamsters or whatever. I don't know, people have hamsters still, right? That's pretty cool. Of course, all of this information is available on our website at www.yetanotherstepod.com. We'd love for you to check out the site and listen to all of our past episodes, including our coverage of Strangely Worlds and our ongoing coverage of Star Trek, the original series.

Thanks for listening, we'll see you next time. you