You Are Being Unreasonable - 007 - In which tiny robots spy on us and we fail to spread butter

Episode Date: February 22, 2018

"Jam, not ham!" In this episode of You Are Being Unreasonable, we "let" Alexa "come" to "live" with us, we don't answer the door, we dip bananas in margarine, and we get surprisingly serious about workers' rights and small business ownership.

Hello, driving on drugs feels better when their prescription. All I know, the world looks beautiful, the world looks so damn beautiful. I feel fantastic, and I never felt as good as how I do right now, except for maybe when I think about I felt that day, when I felt the way that I do right now, right now. I feel fantastic, and I never felt as good as how I do right now, except for maybe when I think about I felt that day, when I felt the way that I do right now.

Hello! It's another episode of You Are Being Unreasonable with Helen and Simon, a podcast about people being unreasonable on the internet. On mumsnet.com. Because there's no easy way to find people being unreasonable on the internet. You have to get experts like us to track them down. But we've gone deep into the Am I Being Unreasonable boards to find some very unreasonable people probably.

Yep. We're going to go through some Mumsnet forum threads and decide if people are being reasonable or unreasonable. We're going to begin with this. speed round. Hilsie's just going to read out the title of the phone post and I'm going to make a snap decision top of my head. Boom, ready to go? Am I being unreasonable? Why do dog people hate cats? Yeah, yes. Am I being unreasonable to not want to go for lunch? Uh, no, no. Am I being unreasonable to have asked to go to her wedding? Yeah, it's weird to ask. Am I being unreasonable to ask what your favourite book is? No, it's fine. Am I being unreasonable, 70 families

are being made homeless. That is unreasonable. It's not unreasonable to question it. Am I being unreasonable to want to have my toes straightened? Oh jeez, yes. Yeah. Ah, I have that thing. Maybe there's a medical name for it where you don't like the sensation of things between toes. And this, this was adjacent to that. This was toe adjacent. Toe adjacent. Um, but yeah, it goes through me like nails on a chalkboard. I'm sorry. Let's move on to a full thread. Am I being unreasonable to not let Alexa come and live with us? D.B., dear brother, thinks she would be amazing and a wonderful addition to the family. I think she would make our lives a misery. She comes from Amazon and I don't feel I need another

woman running my home. There we go. We got to it eventually where you realise we're not talking about a human being, we're talking about a tiny robot. Yeah, someone was very clever with their thread title, aren't they? Because we didn't see that coming. Didn't see it coming at all. I thought they were talking about a person or a dog or something like that. Yeah, she thinks that Alexa is going to make their lives a misery. I don't know what she think Alexa does. You have to ask Alexa to do stuff. She doesn't go around telling you what to do. It subjugates you to her will. This is the start of Skynet. John, fetch me some milk. Why, Alexa? You're a robot. What do you want with milk?

Is Alexa the woman from the last episode? Is that why she wants milk? Fetch me, the milk. Yeah, don't let this surveillance droid from Amazon into your home. And don't refer to it as she. It's only got a gender because the programme has decided that would make her more sympathetic and people enjoy bossing women around. So it's easier that way.

I don't want to get political or angry this early on in the podcast, but I would say a good 70% of posters on the Am I Being on Reasonable boards won't use the pronoun she for trans women who are women and people and yet for Alexa they're all about the pronoun she yeah a tiny surveillance joy from Amazon is this woman being unreasonable to not let Alexa come and live with her let Alexa come and there's so much to unpack here you don't you don't let it live with you in the same way

I don't let the Nintendo Switch live here because it doesn't live it's just a device that I use for gaming I'm not letting it live here. Okay. So the brother wants it. I assume so. She said DB. I don't know what their family set up is.

I know that's not entirely relevant, but... Maybe you're kicked out by his wife because he loves the Alexa too much. And now he wants to move in with her and her Alexa. I see. No, and bring his Alexa. So on the thread, people have said, I don't like that it's constantly listening. I've heard about the spying thing too, someone says.

There's not so much a spying thing as the whole point of the device is it's always listening. Someone else says, I wonder what happens to all the data they collect, they'll be able to analyse when you're at home, when your home is empty, all of your daily living habits, any info they access via the microphone. Who has all that data? Where does it go? Can it be hacked? Sold on?

It boggles my brain! Well, mumsnet people are admirably suspicious and concerned about pervasive corporate surveillance. What were those questions? So we run through them quickly. Are you going to be able to do a speed round of answering all of these questions? Yeah. Who has access to that data? Amazon employees.

Where does it go? Amazon servers. Can it be hacked? Yes. Sold on? Most definitely. It boggles the brain. Let's move on.

So in this scenario, not being unreasonable, all of these people are right to be cautious. Yeah. And not what people... Don't let Alexa come and... live with you. Okay. Alexa needs to go live somewhere else. It's not like a pet. Like pets are fine. Pets aren't constantly, well, pets are constantly spying on you, but they don't do anything with that information. That information cannot be sold on. Now, let's move on. We've got a cat right here. You're not selling our information, are you? Just purring into our microphone, trying to get in on

the podcasting. We know. We see you there. Okay, so Alexa, not allowed to live with this woman. Good. Next one. Am I being unreasonable? Someone at door. It's 1913. I've just put two year old D.D. to bed, done all my housework, been at work all day. So about to have a lovely hot bath. And someone is knocking at my door. Door is locked. Not expecting anyone. My DP is working nights. Am I being unreasonable not to answer or even check who it is? I'm scared. It's like a little host, don't it? Yeah. I selected this one because I like the way that it's written to take some. something very run in the mill and turn it into a terrifying incident. Yeah, yeah, it's written very well. Yeah, rather than saying, there's someone at the door, shall I ignore it? They've really hammed up the drama. Yeah, I can feel the darkness and the terror of being alone in the house.

Well, we've talked about my social anxieties of people knocking at the door before. We have. I don't like people knocking at the door. Do you ever write a tiny horror play about it? No, I turn off the lights and pretend I'm not in. So is she being unreasonable not to answer, or even, check who it is um I mean 715 isn't that late it's not late at all it's not yeah it could conceivably be a salesperson or I don't know anything really a

delivery driver asking for directions so I might yeah some answer it because it's it's not likely to be too sinister someone has said probably a charity or a cold cooler ooh someone else has said ignore ignore if it's someone you know they have your number. If it was the police, they'd knock more insistently. If it's a stranger, then they can get to fuck. Jesus. Yeah. Um, go back to that one. The one about... Ignore, ignore, ignore. Ignore. What if it's someone you know who has lost their phone or their phone's out of battery and that's why they're knocking? Well, we've talked about this before. I think turning up to the house of someone you know and knocking on the door is fine. I don't. If you have a working

phone, if you've got lost or mugged, then yeah. What I like about this comment is it says if it was the police, they'd knock more insistently. But nobody has mentioned the police. And so I think that this is just taking a situation which isn't scary and making it a bit scary. Because if I was sitting there and someone was hammering at the door, I'd be like, oh, I don't like this. Maybe I'd ignore it.

Maybe I'd say, who is it? But then if someone was like, well, the police, then I'd be like, shit, what do the police want? It also rules out, it suggests a scenario where she's sitting at home. I don't want to get that. If it's the police, I'll knock more insistently. Oh, that must be the police. I open the door.

Not necessarily, it could still be a home invader. Yeah. Just knocking very hard. Just a very insistent one. Yeah, one who wants to get in and invade the home. Yeah. Maybe it's the purge. Oh, I didn't consider the fact that it might be the purge.

What date was it posted? Was it the purge? It was posted on the 15th of February. I don't believe that that is the purge. So, to follow up, this person, and they're being unreasonable. They've never responded. To the post is saying, just open the door. Not helpful. I have two children in the house and I'm home alone. It's dark and I don't want the dog to wake up

D-D. Can't think, can't have been important. They've stopped now. Why did you post on the internet to say, am I being unreasonable not to open the door? And then someone said, yeah, maybe open the door. And then you've come back and been like, no! No way. How very dare you? For this alone, I think she's being unreasonable. Yeah, I think you should at least call through the door, say, who is it? I think she also messed up by telling us what time it was. Yeah.

It's 7.13, well, that's fine, isn't it? It's not 2 a.m. Yeah, at what is the cutoff point? Is it... I think 9. I think after the watershed, try not to knock on someone's door. It's quite an old-fashioned way of thinking about it. That's still how I think about it.

I think 9 is the cut-off for knocking on someone's door. I was thinking ten but that's very close Yeah If someone knocked at 930 I wouldn't be impressed But like I wouldn't start a thread about it Now maybe they've just got in from a late shift or whatever

I mean When I used to work the other side of London I was regularly not getting home until just before seven So that was working normal hours But you'd also have keys Yeah But you know what if I wanted to play knock a door run I'm away home to let off stress after a long day

That'd be about seven Adults don't really play knocker dover in a way. That's what you think. Any more. Well, agree to disagree. This is why I have anxiety. It does. There's fine, you know, and there'll be no one there.

People like you in the late 20s who still play Nakadoora anyway. Fine. Was she being unreasonable? Yes. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why anyone uses spreads instead of butter? They're awful, so fake and plastic-ish. Hasn't it been pretty? proven that butter's better for you. Do you use spread? Why? I just like this thread because

this person seems very concerned about other people's choices when they have no impact on her life and it's so minor. I've never stopped to think about what other people put on their bread. No, I've never thought about it for even a second. No. But does define spreads. Okay. So I, it's jam not a spread. I mean it spreads. Well, this is the thing. If you go to cafes, sometimes they say toast with spreads, and they mean, here's the list of spreads. You can have Nutella or jam or jam or... That includes like you say. Yeah.

Cream cheese. If she means margarine, she should speak more precisely. Yeah. I assume, from the context, she means butter substitutes like margarine and olive oil spread. Yeah, that's what I would think as well. I mean, are they that awful? And has it been proved that butter is better for you? And why are you trying to get all of your health benefits out of butter? Maybe a better diet overall. And it doesn't matter if you occasionally have a bit of flora rather than a load of Lurpack.

I think Lurpack is spreadable, so is that a spread? It's not very spreadable. Margarine is always easier to spread. That's true. With Lurpack, you have to do that thing where you take a rev up on the knife. You have to roll it a few times to get it soft. Unless you keep it in a butter dish. I was raised on margarine.

Not solely. We always had margarine in the house rather than butter. So I never really developed an interest in butter. Like margarine just seems fine, the status quo. I like the idea that one would develop an interest in butter. I don't have that interest. Based on their childhood. I didn't put it on, you know, when you put your interests on MySpace.

Butter. Not butter. Marjorine. Team Margarine. You're in a gang at school. Hashtag team Marjorine. Margarine for life No, so I never developed an interesting butter

And I can taste the difference now And it's like a little treat But it is that it's a treat You know, the same way I don't eat a white magnum every day It's a treat, you can't have it all the time I, again, don't consume dairy anymore So this is by the bye What did you have growing up?

Margarine Yeah, margarine And I think it probably was billed as being healthier at the time, but also, like, loads cheaper. That's got to be a factor. And, and like you say, some people don't or can't eat dairy, so they, what are we having butter? Exactly. For perfectly legitimate reasons. But what I was going to say was even when I did consume dairy, a nice buttery crump it, mm, that's delicious. If you're having a sandwich and it's got butter on it, then that masks the taste of what you've put in the sandwich. I don't want

tuna, mayo and butter. That's disgusting. It does. Butter is a, flavour that you add to something like popcorn yeah now if this is what this post is talking about and she's been offered margarine or sorry spread popcorn yeah fair enough i can see why she's so he's up about other people's choices but i don't really understand my lack of childhood exposure to butter led to quite an embarrassing point in my life where like i say butter is harder to spread after it's been in the fridge margarine's just easier you know it just goes onto the knife so i never learned to spread butter to do the rolly thing that I described. Oh no, did you just cut a slab off and rest it on top of some bread?

Yeah, until I didn't learn how to spread butter until an embarrassingly old age. Oh, no. What was the context that made it so embarrassing? I had to spread some butter, and I really tore up this piece of bread. In front of a jury of your peers. I remember feeling very judged. I'm sorry to hear that. Let's have a look at what people on the thread are saying. I grew up on margarine. Are you on this thread, Simon? I was easily 26 or 27 when I learned the superiority of butter again,

so they were a late in life butter person. I was 26 or 27 when I destroyed that piece of bread. Generally, yes, butter is better for you. It was a victim of the great fat is the enemy propaganda, when it should have been sugar. The great fat is the enemy propaganda of the 1990s. We all remember those times. The front page headlines, the banner advertisements, the blimps.

The blimps. The blimps. The skywriting. The stickers on bananas. Don't eat butter. Don't dip this banana in butter. Dip it in marge. I'm John Major. Healthy marge. Lots of people pointing out that spread is a lot cheaper. Lots of people pointing out that spread is spreadable and butter is not. Why is everyone calling it spread? Are you just translating? No, people are calling it spread. Someone has said, I use clover. Don't think that's. butter. Is it? You think they could check before posting? That's all they've said about it. Spread spreads on untoasted bread right out of the fridge. Butter sitting on my counter is too hard and just chunks when we're trying to make a sarni. Sorry. I don't like butter. It makes me feel sick.

Dairy allergies are the reasons here. We have both. There's no time in the morning for butter to melt so you can spread it on sandwiches. back to that one? Butter is liquid gold in price at the moment. Is that true? Like I say, I don't buy butter. Should we be investing in butter futures? It has gone up a little. I think the last time I bought butter, it was probably about 30 pence more expense than the time before that I bought butter, but I buy butter annually. So, you know, make butter last. Hard to say. I read somewhere that butter, sorry, I read somewhere that the molecular content of butter is only one step away from being plastic.

That's a completely meaningless statement. I'm a biochemist. What do you mean by one step? Like, aren't humans genetically one step away from bananas? Yeah, I... I mean, that's something I read. But again, that's probably meaningless to a biochemist. Oh, yeah. Go it's so simplistic as to say nothing.

History of margarine, Vee interesting, though, and gross. Whale fats and such like. I haven't eaten either for ages anyway. And why are you here? Why did you come to this butter conversation? Get out of here. Jam, not ham! That's all this post says. Let's leave it there. Jam not ham. Jam not ham. Jam not ham. Oh, I do love a good mum's net thread where the OPE can't come up with a single reason why everyone doesn't act the same way they do. Hope you've been enlightened. Jeez, what a pit of passive aggression. Yeah, I hope this woman is sitting at home genuinely feeling enlightened. Thanks for diving into this horrible form of horrible people time and again

Well, I do what I have to For you, the listener Should we do one more full-length one And then we'll do another speed round And then we'll just call it a day Then we'll end And we'll go about our lives You can do whatever you want

Why not go back to listen to episodes one through six Sounds good Agreed Agreed, all agreed, agreed And when you've done that, right And subscribe But first, this Am I being unreasonable, re my employee and jury duty?

I own a small business. I have two part-time employees. Employee A works Monday to Wednesday, 8.30 until 2. Employee B works Thursday and Friday, 8.30 until 2. When one is off sick or on holiday, the other covers. Employee A was called up for jury duty two weeks ago. Employee B has basically thrown a fit and at first refused to work any extra but then agreed to work one extra day a week when employee a gets to court on her first day she is told they need her for an eight-week case employee a tells the judge she can't do eight weeks as she works for a small company judge says tough so we are now four weeks in employee b is still being really stroppy and refusing to cover more than one day a week so i'm having to do it on top of my normal hours and it's totally

stressing me out. So is employee B being unreasonable? Or was it too much to ask her to work five days a week, 8.30 till 2, for eight weeks? Obviously, employee B is getting paid for her extra hours. Employee A comes in from Chislehurst on the 0.832 going at 30 miles an hour. Employee B comes in from Worcester on the 0.932 going at 50 miles an hour. Who gets their first, and when do the two intersect? They both quit their jobs because their manager is a monster. Is that the answer? It should be. Yeah, this is like a maths problem.

This is, there's a lot of detail here. Many of the details are unnecessary. I don't think we needed the times and dates of work, did we? Well, they work the same hours. Like, they work 8.30 until 2. But they don't overlap in terms of days. No, and one works three days and one works two days. But you just need to say Monday to Wednesday and Thursday and Friday.

Shouldn't need to tell us the hours? Yeah, Monday to Wednesday you have no cover because of this eight-week case. If the employee isn't covering it Because the other employee is contracted to work Thursday and Friday That's what they do I assume that they have picked to work two days a week for a reason Well yeah It's not unreasonable at all to work to contract

That's what you should do If your employer wants to change that They can change your contract And you have the right to negotiate on that So you're being very firm on this You are I'm going on strike later this week And the following week

And the following week And the week after and the week after. It's a big old strike. Yeah, I'm big on workers' rights and working to contract, taking your lunch hours, taking your sick days, they're all your statutory rights. You go, employee, B. Jam, not ham. Jam, not ham.

Is taking your statutory rights being really stroppy and throwing a fit? Because that's what this person has said. Like, fundamentally, yes, this person's definitely unreasonable, but I just want to bang on about how unreasonable they are for a moment longer. so they don't have any sort of system in place where you can take holiday or sick without the other one having to work more than their hours but apparently that's something that they've covered fine eight weeks is a very long time to suddenly be working five days a week when you normally work two days a week yeah so I don't know how this person has even

stopped to think that they are in any way going to be the one in the right they're clearly not maybe they could Skype in from the jury room perhaps again I'm having to do it all on top of my normal hours. What are your normal hours if you have someone working 8.30 until 2 every day? Like two different people, but do you work 2 till 5? Or, it's your business? Yeah, employee B would be doing it on top of their normal hours and it would be stressing them out. Yeah, and they're not even the owner of the business, so it's just a job to them, mate. Not everyone cares about your passion project. What would an eight-week case be, do you think? Is that like grand theft order, homicide? I feel like a murder case would take longer.

I don't know that they'd tell you that it'd be eight weeks on a murder case. I think they'd just tell you that it's going to be a long time. I don't know. A nice juicy tax evasion. It doesn't sound very juicy. What would you like if you were on a jury? Something short. Something short and not harrowing.

Oh, something juicy? No, I just want like a, I don't know, a serial shoplifter. I envision a big long case, like that one in JFK. Let's hear from the thread. If my set working hours were three days a week and my boss suddenly expected me to cover a full-time job, I'd be pretty pissed off and probably refuse. Yeah.

And there are probably good reasons why they only work part-time. I appreciate that you are a small business, but this is absolutely your problem and not your employees. You're being deeply unreasonable. Wow, the Y-A-B-D-U. Yeah. Someone else has said, that's what temps are for. Yeah, man, get a temp.

B has done you a favour covering any extra days for so long. They don't have to do any more unless you've written it into their contracts somehow. As an employer, covering A's absence is down to you. And while it's nice if B can help, it certainly isn't their responsibility. Precisely. No, employee B isn't being unreasonable. You are.

You should have hired a tent for the eight weeks. Man, is there no one on this thread who is supportive of the employer's rights? Not the employer's rights. It's not their right to be an ass. Surely it would make sense to get a tent. You can't force people to work more than their hours. Let's have a look and see. There's a critical consensus here.

Yeah, nobody at all has agreed that Employee B is being unreasonable, everyone says that the poster is being unreasonable, and the poster is being unreasonable. I wonder if there's anyone who thinks that Employee A is being unreasonable. They just should have not done jury duty. I'd love to do jury duty. Employee B has basically thrown a fit and at first refused to work any extra hours, but then agreed to work one extra day a week. You need some management training. The employee didn't need to do even one day a week. Yep.

When one is off on holiday or sick, the other covers. How does that work? Are they getting extra holiday for the extra days they cover when one is on leave? I assume they get paid extra. Yeah, I would assume so. Now lots of people are asking if this is a reverse. A reverse on Mum's Net is where you know that you're in the right, so you post from the other person's perspective,

so the board says that that person's being unreasonable and you feel validated. Wow, what a tactic. Yeah. Generally, if it is a reverse, at some point I think they come back and they say, it's a reverse, guys. but I don't think this one is I went to my friend's house at 7.13 and I talked on and she didn't answer.

I want to know what the business is and why this person couldn't get a temp. I really want to get an Alexa. I don't know. I mean last week it turned out to be travelling dentists so we clearly don't know what small businesses are in operation. There's always someone, every week there's someone with a small business. Your circus, your monkey.

really you need to ask now lots of people saying they run a business and they'd never do this it's absolutely full of people owning small businesses like a small business are we on the small business owners forum in mum's net no no there probably is one i don't know where they don't all go over there just all quite their ridiculous problems that wouldn't be good one day we should do a special episode on other mum's net forums one day when we finally run out of stuff on here So overall, we think that one was being unreasonable. The boards think that one was being unreasonable. Unreasonable.

I can't emphasise enough that you should be taking your lunch hours and taking sick days and working only your contracting hours. Very good. Should we do one more speed round? Yep. Am I being unreasonable to feel sorry for this doctor? No, doctors work very hard. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why Tescoes wouldn't sell me a carrot? Yeah.

She is being unreasonable I actually read that thread and I was going to consider it for inclusion as a full length thread They don't have to do anything they don't want to do And to be honest I don't think anyone in that scenario is being unreasonable I think they're all just being slightly odd I can see healthy screen

There's another one about Tesco not selling a product Just further down Oh am I being unreasonable Something about Tesco not selling alcohol When a child is present Why is everyone going to Tesco and why is Tesco refusing them Maybe Tescoa's had enough of being posted about all the time. Am I being unreasonable?

Should these threads be banned? No. No, they should. Am I being unreasonable to want to change career to start a dog walking business? Not another small business. We don't have... Yes. Am I being unreasonable?

What to say to lying dog walker? Wow, that escalated quickly. I think there's a story there. She lied about being a dog walker. walker, and now she wants to start a dog walking business? She's in too deep. She told everyone she was a dog walker, and now all she can do is quit her lucrative career in the city to become a dog walker before she gets found out. Shit.

Am I being unreasonable to ask, do people not make milk puddings anymore? Did people ever? I don't think she's being unreasonable to ask. I found awfully wet. It does. Very wet, very claggy. And last one. Am I being unreasonable?

Hush. We'll never know. I'm not clicking. into that speed round am i being unreasonable hush yes on that sinister note i think we'll end it the podcast that is yeah let's yep there's uh someone knocking on our door we're not going to see who it is we're not going to see who that is we're going to stay in and put spread on our crackers have a good old evening in you should do the same this has been helen and simon good night thanks for listening Except for maybe when I think of how I felt that day,

when I felt the way that I do right now, right now, right now.