You Be Trippin' - Gabon and South Africa w/ Hamilton Morris | You Be Trippin' with Ari Shaffir

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

Follow Hamilton on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hamiltonmorris/ Subscribe to his Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/HamiltonMorris SPONSORS:-For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off FOR LIFE, Free Shipping, AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men at http://Mengotomars.com .-The Everyday Earbuds Classics are a great option for everyday listening. Go to https://buyraycon.com/TRIPPIN to get 20% off. Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring! On this week's episode of You Be Trippin', Ari Shaffir sits back down with the trippiest tripper of them all, Hamilton Morris. This time Hamilton takes us the South Africa where he researches iboga, or as we know it - ibogaine. He explains the evil history of drugs in South Africa, as well as shedding some light on the American history as well. Hamilton also exposes some very real facts on a couple prior conspiracies like Project MKUltra. Lastly, Ari has Hamilton walk us through what a traditional ritual looks like in Africa for iboga. You Be Trippin' Ep. 129 https://www.instagram.com/arishaffirhttps://www.instagram.com/youbetrippinpodhttps://arishaffir.com Chapters00:00:00 - Intro00:02:04 - Ibogaine00:11:08 - African Worship of Iboga00:13:16 - Ayahuasca00:20:13 - DEA00:32:59 - Hamilton Goes to South Africa00:55:08 - Back 2 South Africa01:08:26 - Segregation01:16:24 - Back 2 Quaaludes01:37:13 - Tribal Iboga Ritual02:07:51 - Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Why don't you just be step out in the backyard or the nearby heroin park and make these people move away so we can smoke some nice cigars? Hello and welcome back, everybody, to an exciting new episode of UB Tripp, and we got a banger today. Hamilton Morris makes his return to the podcast fresh off his award for 2025 Trippy for Best Drugs.

His nomination for best episode, both for his trip to China that you can get right now on the UBTripping podcast channel. You can subscribe wherever you're watching and listen. Please do that. hit subscribe button right now. Hamilton Morris is a great guest. He's an exciting guy. He's a journalist

and a chemist. You might know him originally from Hamilton's Pharmacopia that was on Vice for many years. And now he's got his own Patreon. He's just kind of doing independent journalism based on like chemical, like psychedelic and drug research. And today is no exception. We got a great episode on South Africa

and Gabon. Kind of went back and forth. It went from jungles to deviant. deceit governmental levels. Sit back and welcome to an exciting episode of you be tripping. No, I love New York. I'm really sad to leave.

In New York. I know. I know. It was just like, I don't know. I moved here. All right, you can start. We'll start whatever, but I want it just time to freeze. You ever have that? You can be off doing something

and then like nothing changes while you're gone. Yeah. I mean, it's not realistic. but it's kind of what I want. Yeah. I don't know. Do you hear about the, I guess you did with Rogan and the Ibrahimagane stuff? Do you want to talk about recording?

Yeah, this will be like a teaser or something, but. I want to. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I heard about it. I'm curious if you have additional insight into what happened. Okay, yeah. Where you've been and where you're going. This is our race travel show, yeah.

We're going to talk about travel today. It's you'll be in you. So I guess back up before Rogan even, there's the leader who's very divisive in this country. I've heard about him. Yeah, and everyone hears about him. So when I went backpacking, everybody was like, what about Trump?

We have the number one most well-known bad guy or whatever, you know. So I would always be like, I don't want to talk about this, but tell him about your guy. And they'd always be like, my guy's so crooked. Like, thank you for seeing me. And then all the L.A. people in the, in the comedy world, if they ever came in contact with Trump,

they would see it as like a photo op. So you have like high level comics wives, like give him the finger as he walked by. And it's like, all right, well, you haven't done anything. You've just gotten a lot of likes from your friends. Right. And then, you know, Rogan, like, I don't know. I hate when comics get into politics,

but he kind of did. But he's like respectful of the president. So he doesn't like some of the war stuff, you know, and I think he doesn't like hold that back. But then like, I don't know how crooked the guy is, but like, if this doesn't affect anybody's pockets of his friends, you know, and this guy who's always been nice to him, Joe Rogan, who's always respectful, he was like, so we had this guy named Ed Clay, this friend of ours who was telling him about I began like 15, 18 years ago. He goes, you should do it. It'll like stop your drug habits, addiction. and I was like, I'm not addicted, I enjoy it. But he goes, it's just really good, you should do it.

It's not a fun drug. But he goes, all these jiu-jitsu guys have massive pain, and they have PTSD, and they get addicted to opioids. Opioids? Opioids, whatever pain pills are. To make up for it. And then, this is, I mean, probably 18 years ago, this guy was telling us about it.

This guy in Nashville. And then, I guess Rogan had an audience with Trump, and he was like, hey, dude. I think the guy probably mentioned it again. He was like, hey, this stuff is helping, like, veterans also. Stuff I think would get in Trump's head. We're like, yeah, let's do that. He doesn't seem like he cares about.

You know, they were asking about, like, Israel, Palestine. And he was like, we got to do whatever. And they were like, no, it's a two-state solution. And Trump just goes, I mean, does that seem like that's working? You tell me, does the two things, has that been working great? So he has, like, that way of talking about it. So he was like, all right, let me look into this. And I think he called him back the next day.

I think he got pushed back from the drug. companies because they were like, this is, you know, this is stepping on our. Trump did. Yeah. Do you know for a fact that that happened? No. Okay. But that's what I can kind of gather.

He got some pushback from the drug companies and he was like, you're doing it. And then they were like, oh yeah, no, totally, you know. That was the thing. It seemed so casual. I mean, even in the Oval Office meeting. Yeah. He's like, I texted the president and said, you've got to make Ibegain legal. and now we're doing it.

And was it truly that casual? I mean, do you know to what extent It's going to be legal? Or no, to what extent this is calculated, like a calculated play for Joe? No, I don't think it was that at all. Not that I mean, in terms of calculated plays, this is one that I entirely agree with.

He's been a psychedelic guy, you know, for forever. Yeah, that's why I ask. Yeah, so he's always, and he's always very publicly going like, this is really great, Nobody gets addicted to mushrooms, you know. All that stuff. He's been very open about it, DMT and stuff, before everyone knew what it was.

I think he saw an in on a conversation. And he was like, hey, let me tell you something. I mean, I was talking, I was doing my, so like in terms of ins, I had two knee surgeries, one in each knee years apart. And it started to get worse, menisical. And I got back from backpacking and it was like really painful. I got a cortisone shot and I got back and I was talking to, it's so funny when people, after COVID came up.

people like, I would never listen to Joe Rogan on health stuff. And he's like, I'm like, he's my number one guy I listen to. Like fish oil for joints. All that, I've always gone to him for that. He's the, he's the health guy in our group. So anyway, and I was like, hey, I'm going to get another surgery. I talked to my doctor. My doctor was like, and he's stem cell shit.

And he goes, maybe pan them up. I don't know. And Joe's like, no, fuck that. I know a guy that can, that we do stem cells here already. And I was like, really? He goes, yeah, your doctor doesn't know shit. And so then I got stem cell shots. And I was like, okay, we'll see if it works.

It takes like a year. But like, my point is, it works. It's starting to, but he said it takes about a year because they, like, rebuild your muscles or the injuries. But he wasn't offering me that until I brought up, I'm going to have surgery again. You know what I mean? The conversation was like he saw an in. I bet it was something like that. Somebody, maybe Ed Clay talked to him again.

And then he goes, you know what, actually, I've become, since I talked to you last, it's become, text buddies with the sitting president. You know, let me see here. Yeah, because people have been trying to do this for a very long time. I mean, this goes back to the 60s. This has been a long road to get to the point of medical recognition of Ibegin. So I'm very pleased if this is moving forward. I really do think it will help a lot of people.

There's always controversies where people say, oh, addiction's more complicated than just a Sure, whatever. Yeah, yeah, sure, but it does, I mean, I've seen it. It's the antidepressants. They're overprescribed. I'm like, I don't know, they help me. Maybe they do overprescribe them, but I was ready to fucking end it. Which ones do you take?

It was, I tried a few, and none of them worked, or the side effects were too great. It was making my life worse. It was an 80s drug that kind of went out of style, my doctor told me. I forgot which one it was. Amipramine? What? Eipramine? No.

Decipromin, decip. Decipromin, maybe? I forget. I'll tell you later, I guess. I'll have to look at it. I'm off them. Okay. But like,

this helped me. Yeah. So you can say it's over prescribed, but also like, doesn't mean it's always wrong. Right. They're tools like anything else. And I began as like,

from whatever he says, it's like, no one's doing this recreationally. They said it's like an awful drug. I don't think it's an awful drug. I've used it. I think it's a, not only do I not think it's awful.

I think it is like one of the most amazing things. Wait, during? You have fun with it? It depends on how you define fun. I mean, there are people that, yeah, not conventional fun, not like take this and go to a party type of fun. Right, right, right. Okay. Okay.

Not take this and go to a party. You're doing great, hooray. You just got out of Nicaragua, where they let him free. His mom was a dissident. Not like that. That's what I mean by fun. recreational use. Yeah, but it's not

it's not necessarily painful. I mean, one of the weird things about Ibegain is you have a skewed user base because most of the people that are taking it are dealing with some kind of really severe addiction problem, which is going to, in the same way that like, skew it. People taking cancer chemotherapy

are probably predisposed to really not enjoy it, although I think chemotherapy wouldn't be enjoyable for anyone, but you have an entire patient population that definitionally are not in good shape. Dude, let's try recreational chemo. Yeah, that's the point of us. Until you've tried it with someone with no pain, you wouldn't know. Yeah, yeah, it could be amazing.

It's like those, whatever those pills are that makes you clean your apartment, but then if you take it, if you have like ADD, it just calms you down. Baderal. You know, the opposites. Yeah, I wonder about that. Yeah. Yeah. Chemo is probably not the best example.

But, yeah, a lot of the people taking Ibogaine are really in the throes of a intractable, addiction struggle and they have to face their demons and whatever they've been avoiding and it can be really psychologically. That was it, Decypramine. Dezipramine? Yeah. Oh, that is a classic. Yeah.

That's interesting. They got you on one of the old fashion. It's crazy also. The weed used. I can remember that name. I haven't taken in about a decade. That's more crazy than they got me on that. Yeah, I'm not a hater when it comes.

I mean, that's not like technically necessary, but it's similar enough. And I'm not a hater when it comes to those drugs. I agree that they're overprescribed, but I think they're valuable tools. I could feel while Butrin was like, it's not working. And they, you know, I got the dosages right. And then I was like, and then I couldn't come, which was like quite annoying. And I didn't know about that side effect until it started happening. Yeah.

And I was like, I don't know what's going on. And then my chick by the back of the box. She's like, oh, this. With the decipermine. No, with Welbutrin. Oh. Or one of those. That's unusual, because it's usually considered decipermine wouldn't surprise me.

Well,butrin usually doesn't have sexopermine. sexual side effects. Yeah, it might have been another one too. Okay. We tried like four and nothing was and then this one was like boom, there it is. I'm back. It was like, oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there wasn't like a question of like, yeah, maybe this is working, maybe not. But anyway, what were you saying about? I think that it's painful for people that are using it in the context of a life or death struggle with substance use disorder because they've got a lot of stuff going on psychologically. So what do you get off it? Well, I was really interested in the traditional use of it because, you know, it's a West African traditional medicine.

There's a religion in West Africa that worships Iboga as, and it's like a syncretic Christian religion where they've integrated these, this West African mythology into Christianity. So there's this very strange hybridization where the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Iboga. and they have created a truly spectacular way of using this drug that's like it's basically everything that is missing from Western medicine where like the way that the drug is administered is almost as important if not more important than the drug itself like there's a huge fasting endurance ritual there's dance there's music there's community community, they emphasize all these symbolic processes that force you to. Community.

Yeah, community is a huge part of it. Yeah, it's like a giant celebration. So, you know, when you think about addiction treatment, it's like you're taken away from your community, you're put in some kind of sterile place where you can access drugs or a bunch of other drug addicts and, and, you know, it can potentially be very isolating. It does help some people, but this is like you're thrown into the this massive ritual and kept in it for days and days that keep administering the aboga. In some instances, they'll bury you alive so that your head is sticking out of the soil

facing the sky and you spend the night tripping with your head sticking out of the ground looking at the stars to contemplate your own mortality. And they do this to children and elderly. Yeah. Yeah, that's the ayahuasca thing that kind of impressed me is that is, you know, how it's treated here among the whites. But there it was just like talking to like tribes members, whatever, running lodges, they were like, oh, we've all done.

Like there was no stigma. Like, yeah, I've done it. It's no big deal. Yeah. That was like, staying in a lodge. I was like, I don't know if I got to have pork today because I'm doing something in like a week. And I was like, what? I was like, I was like, yeah.

And I was like, yeah, you're fine. It's a week out, you're fine. And I was like, you've done it. He goes, yeah, like 10 times. He goes, it would be like a principal calling you in. It's like, hey, next Monday, I need to talk to you in my office. So tell your mom fish only for the next week and I'll follow up, but I'm going to need to talk to you. Yeah, it's really cool to see how these cultures just haven't.

It's a guidance counselor thing. And they've just integrated it so it's not a big deal. And you can see how all of this insane baggage that we have in the United States surrounding drugs is ridiculous when you go and it's, you know, doctors and lawyers in the entire community. They're all tripping together. and it's just the thing that they do. It's part of their religion. It's part of their traditional medical practice. Why wouldn't you do this?

It doesn't need to be justified. You don't need to make some claims about how it heals this or that percent of people with this or that disorder to what degree. It's just, of course, of course you do this. We all agree. It's a beautiful, beneficial part of our lives. And if for some reason you didn't wish to participate in it, presumably you wouldn't have to. Yeah. It's like going to the dentist every year.

Yeah. You're not like, well, what's the research? You're just like, I don't know, you go in there And let them, Dr. Fishman tell you what to do. Yeah, it really felt like there was a town When I did it in Ecuador And there was like a few borderline Amazonian towns Like the Amazon with like the river,

whatever the mountains come in here And the Amazon kind of starts. So there's all these towns that are borders for different rivers And this one guy who worked in the The like tourism board And he goes, we should separate ourselves We're the towns will be the one that offers like ayahuasca and he said the rest of the tourism board was like zero chance we're not getting a

bunch of drug addicts in here to like fuck up our town and he's like it's not it's not that they're not going to be here but then one by one he goes can i get you a like a like a trip and they're like yeah i'll do it but i'm not going to fuck up the city and then one by one he wore him down and afterwards they were like oh this isn't going to be they were all like well i'm done for a year at least this is no one's going to be living here doing iawaska every day so like this actually isn't the problem I thought. It seems like that probably again. Oh, yeah, in West Africa, it's definitely not much of a tourist industry.

Hi, everybody. I'm stand-up comedian Ari Shafir. And there's one thing you know about me, so I love to travel. Salute from Klusna Boko, Romania. Iasu. In Greece, I got burnt fat off, Saginaaki and Uzo, and I got attacked by a herd of wild cats. I danced for 14 hours in a warehouse

in Berlin on some of the finest lab-made chemicals known to man. I pissed on that. I also like hearing about other people and their adventures. There was a few moments we'd be out at sea and be like, we are in literally the middle of fuck off nowhere. Wow. What is it, a coca, so people don't know? It's basically like a little marsupial.

See there, I gave him a chip. You're going 90 miles an hour. I'm doing 90. He passes you like you're not even moving. Wow. So, I decided to start a new podcast called U.B. Trippin. It's a travel podcast. Every episode, myself and a guest are going to take it to an exciting new place in the world. It's a new podcast from YMH.

Subscribe right now on YouTube to U.B. Trippin'N. and on all audio podcast platforms at UB. Tripping. You get ready for a brand new travel podcast. Hold on. That's stale. I'll see you out there. Historically in Mexico, there was a little bit of that. With Ibogaine?

No, with mushrooms. Yeah. With specifically in Wahaka. Because it's so easy to forget that we didn't know that psychedelic mushrooms grew in the United States. Yeah. It's such a crazy thing because they grow everywhere. But some, and people knew that these species existed, but they didn't know about psilocybin.

And so nobody had really connected the dots. It's actually kind of mind blowing to think that no one in the entire country, as far as I can tell, I've seen some not had ever tripped on mushrooms. Like, it's when they're, when they're newer. Well, they were, they were everywhere. Yeah. And just, I guess. Nobody ate them or if they did, it wasn't documented. There was like one dairy farmer in Florida named Silva Caperton.

Wait, people weren't doing mushrooms. What do you mean? Mushrooms was huge. Is that more recent? I mean, up until like R. Gordon Wassen went to Wahaka and wrote about psychedelic mushrooms and Life magazine in the 1950s, like before that, before this kind of psychedelic revolution, there was no one that had just noticed, hey, don't eat those mushrooms off the cow Patty, they make you go crazy.

Right. This was like very much could have been discovered. It was surrounding everyone and no one appears to have noticed or if they did, it's not documented. Anyway, hold on. We're supposed to talk about travel. I mean, that's what I gather with Rogan and Trump that he just said it. And then he goes, and I'm like, you think mushrooms will be next? He goes, it's part of it.

Russia was part of this, psilocybin. So I don't know when it's supposed to. to happen. But like, I think mushrooms are going to be legalized to a degree. There's definitely a lot of movement in terms of pharmaceutical, medical approval of psilocybin. That's probably going to happen next year. It's kind of lucky that he's going to be in office for not just like six more months. So the next guy can't go. We're stopping that. Like, if enough time, I was hooking up with this chick from Florida State during Trump's first election. And I asked her how she feels,

like, you know, what's the college vibe of Trump getting elected the first time? And she goes, I mean, you know, we're all like, we're in college, we're all pretty liberal, so we don't like it. But we got legalized. So we figured this got to be gone in eight years, but we're here to stay now. So we're all like, nice. Yeah, it's weird, too, because it's not really part of his platform. No, it seems like he'd be against it, right? It's entirely due to influence from outside parties that he is just more open to.

I bet he texts Joe and go, what do you think of that fight? Joe's like, oh, dude, yeah, he fucking nailed. I think, I mean, that's how we all text with him, you know? Or like, have you ever heard of this, Joe? I mean, I don't know what he would text Trump about, but like, Joe's cool. Donald Trump can recognize that. I bet he texts him about fights. Yeah, it's good.

I mean, it's good that it's happening. Whatever administration does it, it's kind of shameful that it didn't happen sooner, that it took this long it's I mean I've I've seen firsthand what it's like in the DEA and it's just a bad situation like there was a I don't think we talked about this last time but there was a big move to prohibit these two psychedelic drugs that are very valuable in scientific research and it was it was kind of like the opposite of Ibegain where you have all this evidence that it's medically valuable and so you can make this argument like it's helping addicts and there are people that use it and they have these benefits. With these drugs, there was barely any evidence that a human being had ever used them.

They were incredibly obscure drugs. Why do they illegalize them? That was the question. Just Reagan sweeping like all of it. Well, people don't know how bad it is. Like people know that cannabis is illegal and the LSD is illegal and that mushrooms are illegal. But if you actually go through the full list of controlled substances, it's like 450 drugs. And that's just the listed ones.

Then if you start going into other interpretations of the law, it can easily jump into tens of thousands of substances. So this got so far out of control. Look at all this. What are you supposed to? Oh, my God. Wait, freeze for a second. Let me just read one of them. Methylidoxa.

MDA. Okay. Love drug. MDMA, I know those. Methyl, China, white fentanyl, dihoxy, five, and, oh my God. How many of these have you tried? Hamilton? One or two.

But, I mean, but this, this list is absurd. There's not a pharmacologist alive. 24 pages of that. 24 pages. Yeah, yeah. It's a long, it's in an absurdly long list. There's not a pharmacologist in the world that could list all of these drugs or explain all of their structures and pharmacology.

We called you with some Thebicon. You're going to prison for a long time. Yes. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah, this is like, and the list is absurd. It includes things that aren't even drugs, things that shouldn't be on the list, but no one is pushed back historically.

They've just been able to get away with this for a half century. Just keep throwing more drugs on the list. Who's going to stand up for Thebicon? That's the problem. There's no, because this is one of the problems with, like, democracy, is that if you have, some thing that's a problem but it might look like something else no candidate's gonna be like I'm out if I defend this like there was some study that said like the there's not a very big instance of recidivism it's like once and then they're done

yeah for the most part but anyway okay but you're a child predator forever right so you have to register as a sex offender and then like okay but now you're back in society you got out after seven years or ten years and now you have to get a job But I feel like a line cook, and then they hire some 17-year-old front greeter. They're like, you can't work here anymore. You got to go. And it's like, well, how are they going to be part of society anymore? And then it's like, they don't really do it again is what the studies have shown.

I do it all the time. But like, but I'm in the minority. But like, they don't really do it again. And they have to be part of our society or they'll just be like homeless and that won't be great. But no candidate's going to go, we have to rehabilitate pedophiles. They're done. They'll never win again. It seems like this too.

It's like you're pro-legalizing a drug that are like your guy, your opponent's going to use that against you. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They absolutely will. I mean, this happens with harm reduction as well where it's like, oh, Biden wants to distribute crack pipes to people. This is absurd. And it's like, well, harm reduction, needle exchanges, things like that are good. They prevent the spread of diseases.

They prevent overdose deaths. This is like an absolutely beneficial thing. And yeah, this is just one of these issues where I think the DEA got very spoiled by decades and decades of doing this with almost no pushback. And in the small number of instances where there was pushback, it was unsuccessful. It's good that people tried. I mean, with MDMA, they really tried in 1986. And they tried with cannabis as well to such an extent that the DEA's own administrative law judge ruled that both of those substances should not be scheduled. and the DA ignored that recommendation.

It's created so many people smoke wheat. That was the number one, like legalize it, you know, for so long. And it creates this really absurd scenario where part of the definition of something being a schedule one substance is that it has no medical use, but cannabis does have a medical use. So what do you do? How do you allow the medical use of a drug that has no medical use? And what they do is they then bifurcate the scheduling so that one substance,

simultaneously occupies multiple legal schedules, which is ridiculous. But again, this whole thing is so ridiculous and they've become so accustomed to ridiculousness that it's just like part of the, in fact, with THC, it's trifricated. It occupies three different schedules. What, schedule one? One, two, and three. And what's three? Ugly clothing?

By the way, it's nice that marijuana is legalized now because weed fashion was disgusted. thing for so long. Yeah. It's just all fucking pot leaves. What? You seem to have sort of weed adjacent fashion. No, no. Weed inspired, but not, no.

For funny suits. I'm wearing weed leaves all over them. So yeah, but I think you got psilocybin and MDMA on this thing. There's going to be accelerated development, it would seem, yeah, which is good in the case of psilocybin and in the case of MDMA, a lot of the heavy lifting had already been. done. I mean, it was a, it was like a very arduous process that took an extremely long time, because going up against this apparatus is nuts. And just any bureaucracy, trying to explain the DMV that, like, I have a license. I just lost it, you know, and have, it's just, they'll

never go, oh, I see your problem here. Okay, let's get you another one. This is worse, though. I think this is actually one of the worst things in terms of, yeah, yeah, because it's like, there's so many issues in politics that are complicated where there's like different sides to something. Whereas with this, I really think it is serving no social purpose that is constructive. If the idea is that prevents people from using drugs, it doesn't. It demonstrably fails at that goal. I always thought the the weed thing was the alcohol companies saying, no, don't take our market. So they were fighting it. And also then the wardens and the prisons were like, no, that's half our business. So you can't make that legal. We lose a bunch of our business. With prisons, definitely, with the alcohol,

The question is if they're concerned about profit, they could just buy cannabis companies. They could just sell cannabis. That's what Philip Morris did with their babe companies. Why fight them, join them? Right, right, right. So they're like, either way, it's us or them. We'll get them both. Hi, everybody.

Breaking into today's episode, oh, it's already great. To let you know a little bit about the guest, Hamilton Morris. He's a super cool guy. I mean, legitimately, one of the coolest people I know. He's a chemist. But kind of like black scientists, you know? He's like a different breed of the chemist. He's somewhere between black scientists and the guy who dresses up like with a question

marks all over his jacket. He's got his own Patreon that you should subscribe to. Patreon.com slash Hamilton Morris where he does new research on stuff like this that he's talking about today. Brings him to places like Gabon to do research with junglers. That's the wrong word. That's probably an offensive word. But he's getting to the bottom of all these sorts of things.

all these laws associated with these drugs, all these, um, the roots of them and just kind of like, he's wild, man. He's a journalist and a chemist. You don't see that connection very much. You can find him on YouTube at Hamilton Morris or on Instagram, also at Hamilton Morris. If you're on Instagram, please reach out to him. Send him a DM, you know, and tell him like, hey, man, I love you on Ari's podcast on you be tripping. Please come back and do another episode.

And next time in the United States, I will reach out to him. We'll do another episode. I got to say, this is another nominee for Best Trippy for Best Drugs and maybe Best Episode. I mean, the stuff we're going to get to is wild. I hope you'll enjoy it. Also, wherever you're subscribing or wherever you're watching, please subscribe. Why not?

Do me a favor. Click that like button, subscribe, just leave a dumb comment for the algorithm. Tell me about the craziest drug you've done. That'll help. Push this into the masses and get more better guests so you guys can have. more fun time. You know, comics are fun, but also I like to reach out. The more views I get, you know, that money's the same regardless, because Wymanage is a great job. But the more views I get, the more guests I can get, like this guy, Rob Lowe, trying to get that climber dude.

It's a bunch of people. It's a wide world out there, and people have gone. So please subscribe. Wherever you're watching and listening, there's also a, I have a special on YouTube called Jew. You should watch right now if you don't know about it. And I think that's it. I have a storytelling show called The End. Oh, well, we're doing a giveaway. I'll make an announcement at the end. We're doing a giveaway. YMH is giving away all episodes of YMH live if you get all episodes of the end right now.

If you've already bought it, you will also get those episodes. YMH Live. For the one year anniversary of YMH Live, we're packaging them into the end. Go get the end right now at aureeshafir.com. Seven episodes. Plus a prequel of the greatest storytelling ever recorded. Second best storytelling ever recorded. It's up there.

It's pretty good. R.Sufir.com right now. $6 an episode. If you buy five, you get two more for free. So that ends up being about $4 an episode. What a bargain for guys like Napar Gargazzi, Tom Sigour, Shane Gillis, Robert Kelly, Joe List, Mark Norman, Chris DeStefano, Miss Pat, Ali Sadiek, Big J. O'Crison.

Oh, my God. Who am I forget? Jordan Jensen, Steph Tollev. me, column Terrell, Duncan Trussell, I don't know, Shane Gillis, I say, I'm Dan Soder. Anyway, please get that. Let's get back to the episode. Guys, this is a wild one. Right. The same argument was being made with MDMA when it was rejected by the FDA. People as a sort of knee-jerk reaction were like, of course, big pharma interfered with the approval. When I don't think that there's particularly strong evidence for that. And what we've seen with

the development of psychedelic medicines over the last few years is that big farmer just gets involved if they they don't need to right have an adversarial position our product or nothing they're like let's just get more products like ab v has acquired billions of dollars worth of psychedelics in the last years what is one of the major pharmaceutical companies so they're not against it so what is it's just the DEA fighting all this stuff there's a a long story that I always get threatened legally whenever I talk about it on a podcast, but there was a very... It's crazy. Yeah, you can look at my...

I did a thing with Andrew Callahan about some of the factors that were at play. There was a legitimate conspiracy that was at play that had nothing to do with Big Pharma. Really weird story. Yes again or no? No, no, no, no, none of those guys. No? Oh, actually, no. Well, interestingly, kind of.

It all leads back. It all leads back to the nose. It always leads back. There's always an angle on. It was Israel. All right, wait, we got to talk about travel. We're not doing it. We're supposed to go somewhere.

Your last one was about China. What a weird fucking way to go to China. It's to go to drug lab tourism. Yeah. This is your award, by the way, your Trippy Award. Oh, wow. Yeah, we do an awards show every year. Well, yeah, but that's nice.

You figure out the box right away. Okay. Let's see what we've got. And it was for, yeah, best drug experience. Oh, wow. Legit award. An actual statuette. Yeah, and you can't smoke out of it.

I didn't realize until later I should have put a carb in there for you. So that's my mistake. I apologize. It's beautiful. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for doing the episode. Everybody loved it.

So where do you want to talk about? I was thinking we could talk about South Africa a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay, sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've been? No.

It's interesting. I bet. Yeah. It's one of the, it's a bit scary to me. It seems like a powder keg that never remember to go off. There's different types of scary depending on, you have different flavors that you can taste, depending on what you're into. But I find the drug history in South Africa just totally, totally fascinating. And I'm very familiar with Gary Webb and Dark Alliance.

He's like, I'm sure you've encountered this. He was a journalist who wrote a famous story for the San Jose Mercury News that in its most compressed, sensationalized form, was that the CIA, created the crack of it. I've heard of that. That's from him? Yeah, yeah. Wow. And then after publishing this, he, uh, Clinton shot himself twice in the back of the head. So that, that's the... Here's the problem. Everyone always says that's, um, clearly murders when that happens, but also, sometimes like, if you're taking away talent from someone, to be able to shoot yourself twice the back of head, it's high, it's a high level suicide. And for this guy to nail it that hard, I feel like it's... I think it was a,

a suicide. Really? Yeah, because I Choms off this way twice? I think so. I think so because... I was joking. Oh, okay.

You really think it was a suicide at the back of it? I do think it was a suicide. Who doesn't do it this way? Because he was very depressed about the reception of this article. Yeah. It was, he was very widely criticized for it. I think it was in part because people leaned too hard on the most sensational interpretation of what he was saying, and this is related to South Africa.

Okay. So, you know, his basic claim was that the CIA was funding this anti-Santanista, anti-communist, contras in Nicaragua. And... Jorge. Yeah, maybe he knows about this. Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah. Yeah, because it's a very politically complicated story that I haven't read this book in a little while. So I may butcher some of the nuances of the narrative, but that the CIA could not directly fund the Contras.

And there was this guy named Blandon who was selling cocaine in L.A. to Freeway Ricky Ross, who was converting it to crack. and some of that money was going back to Nicaragua to fund the Contras. So they had to do like, you know, like lemonade stand shit to raise the money to pay for it? I mean, this is one of many functions that drugs can serve in a society

is a source of massive quantities of undocumented money. Damn. That exists entirely outside of any. Crazy you would go to, I mean, crazy but not crazy. It was like, well, let's raise the money here. here. Let's have a, you know, a yard sale here. You would think like, well, I guess sell it somewhere else.

But yeah, you know how to sell it here or give it. Just seems kind of wild. So he makes a pretty strong case that there was, if not complicity, that there was negligence. I mean, you can debate whether or not the CIA should have been involved in international trafficking or counter trafficking efforts, I think that. We're not supposed to be in Nicaragua. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, they're already like, we're operating under the radar.

Right, right. So from my perspective, there's a little bit of, like, I don't necessarily want our government to be interfering with drugs in other countries or really our own. So that, so, but the claim is that there was negligence in terms of preventing the trafficking and that some money did. go back to the Contras and that some of that cocaine was converted to crack that became part of the so-called crack epidemic. He makes the argument a bit more carefully when you actually read what he's saying, but people jump to the CIA created the crack epidemic conclusion, and then he got attacked for characterizing it that way. But it's a very interesting idea, and there was something sort of analogous that was happening in,

South Africa, which I had found really fascinating. That's even less known, but arguably a better example of this. Because I feel like people in the United States don't really even talk about the apartheid government. It's not like a really widely, like the history of all of that is not something that you're... I barely remember it ending when I was pretty young. Yeah. I remember being confusing with Africans and Afrikaans. But it was like, you guys need better marketing.

It's crazy to be that close to each other. Yeah, we didn't really talk about it much, huh? No, it was big when it happened, but we don't talk about it at all anymore. Yeah, it's kind of, it's a really remarkable and horrifying history that is not discussed as much as you might think. And so like, you know, you have white minority rule in South Africa. And there's obviously a lot of anti-apartheid political activists that they're trying to prevent from overthrowing the apartheid government. This is going on for people in power and money. Yeah.

Yeah, that want to maintain apartheid and white minority rule of the country. And so the apartheid government developed a chemical and biological. weapons program called Project Coast. And it was headed by a South African cardiologist named Votr Bisson. And he was like... Project Coast. Wow. It's a top secret. It's so funny when Wikipedia has a top secret program. Not top secret anymore. Not top secret because the apartheid government fell and there was a truth and reconciliation commission where many of these documents were made public and the documents are horrifying. And I think that like MK Ultra and like many of these things, what is publicly known

likely only scratches the surface. Was it, was it, I just remember Chappelle talking about the Me Too movement in one of his specials and then comparing it to apartheid, the end of apartheid. And he's like, look when you look at it once the whites gave back power, they're like, it should have just been a massacre. They should have just been like, yeah, let's kill all of them. But like it wasn't because they had to learn how to live with each other. And he was pretty much going like, women, please. You got to, we can be your ally, but you can't kill us all for our past, our past advances. I have not seen that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, maybe with this, it were like, you've got to come clean about all of it. But you're saying that it didn't even come clean about all of it, just like somewhat. So there was this guy voter Besson, and he was doing huge amounts of research on the weaponization of psychoactive drugs. Okay. And that's something that different world governments have been doing for a long time.

It's always been a kind of interesting possibility. Like, you know, maybe instead of shooting people or using missiles, maybe we can use psychoactive drugs. Maybe that would even be more humane. It actually probably would be. Just make them go a little crazy, convince them they should declare peace. Right. You know? Or whatever.

Hi, everybody. Today's episode of UB. Trip is brought to you by Mars Men. As you get older, your testosterone starts to go down. I know. If you're like me, I used to guerrilla fuck for hours. And now, I can only fuck for about maybe an hour and 10 minutes. Guerrilla style, the rest is soft and sultry,

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It's got a picture, if you don't know. It's got a picture of this statue with a blue head. And man, I take these trains and they're so loud. But Raycon earbuds just knock all that out. I've been using pretty much every day since I got them. Whether I'm running errands or just working from home, they're the ones I actually use over all my own. the ones. Yeah, honestly, they've become part of my routine. But I will tell you, they're

amazing. They stick in your ear and can shake them back and forth and they don't move. Noise cancellation is great. Oh, I love them. The everyday earbuds classics are a great option for everyday listening. Go to buy raycon.com slash tripping to get 20% off. Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring. And thanks for making my, you know, walks around London actually more pleasurable. All right, let's get back to the episode. So people have very extensively explored that. It was done in the United States, through Camp Ultra. And what is it? Is that all the people getting prostitutes?

They would, like, lace them up and then follow up. You have a project midnight climax, yeah. Midnight climax? Yeah, yeah. And they're like, they're not going to talk because they're going to prostitutes. There's almost no documentation of that, but it does appear to have happened. But there was also Edgewood Arsenal in the United States, which is pretty extensively documented. And they were doing tons of this with weaponization of cannabinoids.

Same idea. If we aerosolize a cannabinoid spray it onto. some kind of combat situation. We can incapacitate everybody by making them totally, totally stoned. Wow. Also, yeah, way more human, unless you start slaughtering all of them, but like way more humane. Right, right.

So the idea. Like chill them all out for a second. It's a, in terms of an idea, it's a decent idea. The problem was the practical application of it always ended up being more challenging than anyone expected. They also tried to do this with psychedelics. And the issue is like, once you're really. trying to do this. Like if the task is actually like, all right, we got to get Hamilton and Ari

in this room, like where you have like a nozzle with a vapor, like does it disperse evenly, do I end up getting way more and you for some reason don't because of some microcurrent in the air? And then the guy comes in afterwards and he gets the biggest dose when he's adjusting one of the microphones and he'd never even wanted to get that guy. Right. Oh, yeah. So like the actual practical application of this ended up being a surprisingly difficult. Another example of this would be there was a infamous hostage crisis in Moscow where they had another one of these sounds good on paper ideas of pumping a fentanyl analog into the movie theater because their idea was, oh, we'll just anesthetize everyone in the room and free the hostages and arrest the people who are holding them hostage and everything will be fine. But enormous numbers of people died because they slumped forward in their seats in such a way that their airway was compromised. and they asphyxiated. Oh, fuck.

That's the... Whoa, what? And they died just like that, not from the drug, just from, like, sleeping gas. That's what appears to have happened. So... It's absolutely stormed at killing

all 40 hostage takers. 132 hostages died larger due to the effects of the gas. I mean, this also happened with Shnrichio on the Tokyo subway when they tried to do the sarin bombing. It didn't work well. Like, they were...

I think it was, like, one of them tried to stab a package with an umbrella or something. something and it didn't leak appropriately, you know, the logistical practical aspects of pulling this sort of thing off end up being a bigger deal than people anticipate. So the apartheid government was trying to do this. And the way they were going about it was really suspicious. They were like one of the things that you see typically in these past instances like the

hostage crisis is you use a super potent. drug like a fentanyl analog or at Edgewood Arsenal in the United States, these super potent synthetic cannabinoids or super potent anticholinergics or LSD or something like that, something that's active in the microgram range, because if you're trying to coat something within aerosol, it needs to be active in a very small quantity. It's like if you required a tablespoon of a drug, it would be really hard to ensure that everyone got this dose. So that's what made Project Coast particularly weird was they were not choosing drugs that lent themselves to practical weaponization. It was MDMA, which is active at like 120 milligrams. That would be the typical dose. It's a huge amount of

material to aerosolize on a crowd. It would require kilos and kilos and kilos. And if you're right by the AC, you're gone. Someone else like further away is like, I'm not getting enough of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? It's, it's impractical. It doesn't make a lot of sense. And then the other one they were looking at was quagletude. We've all taken not quite enough, Molly. Like, dude, there's nothing happening to me. I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. So they tried this with quaylude and or they claim to have tried this with quailude. So this is the thing is their claim is that they were manufacturing vast quantities of these drugs for crowd control as chemical weapons. But these were the worst.

suited imaginable drugs for weaponization. So what were they doing it for then? Are they just fucking up? Or are they trying for some other reason? So that's the question. And I think this is why the Project Coastory almost meets the Gary Webb Dark Alliance narrative better than Gary Webb's story

because they almost certainly were not really using these as chemical weapons. They were almost certainly selling them to have, a source of dark money for the apartheid government. And if there were any ambiguity, I mean, okay, so the first thing is they were tableting them. So that's weird. Why would you press them into dosage units if the point is creating aerosols?

That doesn't really make any sense at all. And I was investigating this and making a documentary about it for the first season of my show, which you can see it on The Vice show? Yeah, Hamilton's Pharmacopio. You can see it on my, some people can't access it, but all the episodes are on my Patreon.

Fucking Vice. Yeah. I'm gonna say this every time you come in. What happened to you guys? It was so cool. Anyway. It's sad, yeah. I guess people bought it and sold up the name.

That's what happened to order tochoke pizza too. I don't know. It was good. And then once there was lines around the block, they're like slash the ingredients. People are coming to matter what. They'll be, they'll just say it was good. because they waited so long in line.

Oh. And then you just get new owners and they go cut the, cut the ingredients to all profit, sell it all off. Yeah. It's sad that, because it's hard to make these sorts of documentaries. It was so independent. It was such an independent news and entertainment source. Yeah. And nobody could do a show like that.

No one's fucking paying for that now. Maybe, maybe Netflix of like seven years ago. Yeah. I mean, Patreon. That's the only way is to self-fund this stuff pretty much. Here's on Patreon now. That's the only way that I'm able to fund making. Hamilton Morris.

Patreon.com slash Hamilton Morris. And you can watch the old episodes as well. Cool. But so I was making this project for my show about this and going to South Africa in an effort to, I actually went three times, and it was an effort to interview this, the head of this weapons program, because he had become. a motivational speaker after the fall of the apartheid government. So he would tour South Africa giving motivational talks to like...

Head of a chemical weapons group? And this dude, I mean, they called him Dr. Death. Some of the stuff that they were doing was shockingly. I mean, the whole thing is really bad. But even in the context of a really bad thing, they were, I mean, they were trying to develop, trying to develop drugs that would selectively This guy rules. He looks like a teacher's fucking yoga

In Lake Atitlan. Is he wearing a Dishiki in there? Yeah. Yeah, that's him. I mean, I guess I don't know. But that's the same one as wearing Dachiki. There's a show about it? Yeah.

With the guy from Dahlhaus or whatever it was. Not Dahlhaus. Oh, is there a show? Is there like a... What was the Dr. Death one before? Go back. Go back a couple. What did you see before?

Dr. Death. Yeah, that guy. Who's that guy? You think that was the same one? I think it's a different. I think it's a doctor's death. Christopher Dunch? That's a different person.

Oh, okay. Forget it. It was also an interesting story. But Doc Ellis, entry. Yeah. Doc Ellis is also an interesting story. Yeah. You think I was real?

Doc Ellis? I assume it's real. I assume it's real too, but I'm always looking for you for answers. Yeah. I think, I mean, the idea of using psychedelics's performance-enhancing drugs, is not as crazy as it sounds, particularly for a trained athlete who has the physical ability

where there's actually more of a psychological dimension to performance in some of these domains. When I'm smoking weed, when it was like really hitting me and I would play poker, I mean, there's not enough case evidence, but like I could see through people.

I would just be like, I would just be like in the zone, they would like throw a blow, like, oh, I call. Just like fast, I could just see, it was a performance answer for sure. I wouldn't get so nervous. you know, if I'm throwing a bluff

or somebody's coming at me and just be like, I was just calm, which helped. Right. Actually, I was just somewhat recently at these steroid Olympics event.

You know about this? No, breaking every record. Well, that was the enhanced games. Yeah, wow. That's fun.

Yeah. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. It was, and there was one record broken. Only one? Well,

here's the thing. and most major athletes aren't doing this. Yeah, because you're pretty much, once you participate in this event, you're done. You're done. So they have to create these huge financial incentives. I think at the next one,

they're giving athletes $100 million to break a world record. That's worth it. Especially for some swimmer? How much you make as a swimmer? Nothing. Yeah. But many of the athletes were retired at this event because somebody that's at the prime of their career,

who's a potential Olympian, is not going to want to ruin their chances of getting a gold medal to participate in this event. So same as like Messi playing for Miami. I don't know what that is. Messi's a soccer player. He plays for Argentina, their club teams and their national teams. And it's the end of his career.

He goes, let me take a shitload of money to play into Who Cares League in America. I see. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. So it was, and then there's also the issue that by some estimates, like over 40% of Olympians are already doping. So then if this is the like enhanced games versus the enhanced games, then there's not really going to be much of an edge necessarily.

But they were doing other things. They were taking amphetamine. Some of the athletes were taking amphetamine. Really? Yes. Yeah. And it's all open. So it made me wonder once psychedelics are approved,

the only stipulation was that it has to be FDA approved. So once psychedelics are approved, it would be really interesting if that ended up having some. kind of performance enhancing effect. That's so funny. My friends are like borderline Hasidic Jew and also he does a lot of farming. It's just like natural stuff. And then as soon as marijuana became legalized, like, I'm growing.

And I'm like, what's the, there's nothing. There's no, what's the problem with it? It's legal and it's like fun. We all drink wine. Who cares? I'm like, yeah, I guess you're right. But so it's like, yeah, if something's legalized, it like, do it. Yeah, because they didn't want, I think the reason that they required FDA approval is

they didn't want to encourage the athletes to take totally experimental substances that had no medical validation whatsoever. But testosterone, amphetamine. I talked to a UFC fighter once, and I was like, have you ever about UFC fighting? I was like, have you ever done steroids? And it's like, I'm like, what? He goes, dude, we all do it. Because some get caught, some don't.

Everyone's on it. And I was like, really? There's like a few that aren't. But it's like, yeah, they're just one step ahead. So, right, this idea that's like the enhanced games when it's like, also the unenhanced games are pretty enhanced. Almost certainly, yeah. I mean, especially with these peptides, some of them have a half-life that's like five minutes. Like, it would be so long.

Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, wait, let's get to South Africa. Okay. Right, right, right. Okay, so I was really interested in investigating this, getting a little bit more into this specific question, because there really was a tremendous amount of evidence that, that the stated claim that this was chemical weapons research. It's weird to think of saying you're making chemical weapons as like the good explanation.

Wow. But like that was that was kind of the thing. It's like no, no, no, no, no. We were just, we were just making chemical weapons. What's the other alternative? Trying to control the black, the axe. Well, okay. There's two versions of it.

There's the slightly less nefarious, slightly less conspiratorial version, which is just selling drugs to make money. Okay. But then there's the, you know, slightly more conspiratorial, like selling drugs to make money with the additional intention of interfering with anti-apartheid political movements by promoting addiction among black people in South Africa. Right. And it could be like, hey, as you're doing this, make sure it helps us also do this. Yeah. If you're like whoever's telling them what to do. You know how the bridges were built in New York by, I forget his name.

He's building's named after him everywhere. Robert Moses. Okay. Is that a guy maybe? But he does build them just low enough that the double-decker buses from Harlem can't get downtown. You have to get out and transfer to keep the blacks uptown and keep the white, the downtown more white. Right. It's not like unthinkable that something like this would have been done, especially because they were also explicitly in their own records trying to

develop a method for preventing black births with a, wow, it's true. Yeah. And a black specific disease, like, that they would have administered under the pretense of a vaccination. So this is like one of these things where it's like, Jesus, there's some really dark. So everyone's doing the COVID vaccine.

Every black guy was like, you go first. It's like this really, they really were trying to do that. To do what to the black. population figure it out later or just to harm to weaken them to maintain control it must be interesting when you're like the supreme minority and then you're like our control is just based on right now control like power and money but like if they all decided to storm us we're done yeah oh yeah yeah and then you have to yeah they're killing enormous numbers of activists i mean they're doing everything in their power wow to to prevent this from going forward and that's right

happened Haiti and then everyone in America and all the all the islands too were like don't let what happened in Haiti happen where the slaves just go like no there's like a hundred of us to every one of you yeah let's just take over yeah and then everybody got scared in the south here yeah yeah so so the apartheid government was terrified and they invested tremendous amounts of money and they what makes it really pretty damn clear that they were selling these drugs and that it was not the stated chemical weapon is that Basin was caught selling MDMA himself. What?

The head of the program was caught selling MDMA, as I recall, in a park and then dived into a river to like evade arrest. And he had something like maybe even a hundred thousand. The fuck's he doing selling himself? It's... How fucking retarded do you have to be to sell it yourself?

It's so crazy. There's a line of command of like secrecy. Yeah, yeah. I'm not even telling the guy to sell it. You have to tell the guy to sell it. Yeah, it would be like if the head of the CIA was found selling cocaine themselves. It's really, really nuts. And so these MDMA dosage units that were supposed to have been destroyed, of course, were not destroyed. And they were being sold by Besson. So at that point, it's very clear that they were selling these drugs. I also tracked down.

This is the motivational speaker now? Yeah, the motivational speaker. Okay. Yeah. I went to one of his motivational talk. So you met him? I did meet him, yeah. Okay.

I also went to his office and got kicked out. And they took the SD card out of the camera and made us erase it and all this stuff. Yeah. And found the person, the pharmacist who was preparing these tablets and called him and he threatened to kill the pharmacist's threat. to kill someone on my production team. It was, yeah, I mean, it's kind of amazing how many of these people are just kicking around South Africa. And I mean, it's almost like, yeah, like, post-war Germany, like, where there's a kind

of, uh, post-war Argentina. Yeah. There's like a, yeah. Yeah. Where there's just a kind of acceptance that a lot of the elders were involved in something nefarious. I'm so intrigued by people who didn't get their comeuppance You know

Like oh well get hired by the American like NASA team or like pole pot We're like I just live in the north the next 30 years Yeah Or doctor or general butt naked It's like still alive kicking it They just like gave immunity or whatever like All right we're done Yeah

But they didn't get like strung up It's like pretty It's like no way do you get out of power and maintain your life but it sounds like all these guys were. Yeah. So what? You went there to just try to find them all, do a doc? Yeah.

I mean, I was also interested because similarly to the Gary Webb crack claim, some of this did coincide with an apparent increase in use of what they called mandrax. That's the South African term for Kualud as they were doing this research. But similarly to crack, it predated Project Coast. in the same way that crack predated any of the CIA involvement with the Contras. It was something that Gary Webb himself acknowledges. Yeah, I guess so. Like, you would need to like, well, there's got to be a market.

I can create a market. There's got to be a market. And then we can flood the market for profit. Right. If no one's buying something, there'd be such a long setup process. Right. There's no need to go from scratch. So you went there and what'd you find or how, like, what was interesting?

When was, how long it was this? This was a wild. I was 2016, something like that, yeah. And I was interested because quailude has disappeared pretty much everywhere. I only hear about it from Joey Dios. He's the only one that talks about the good quailude times and concerts in the 70s and 80s. It's like. And this is one of the weird things.

It's somewhat, where are they? It's a somewhat trivial drug to synthesize. I mean, it's totally, it's totally within the abilities of. That's the same thing. Man, Jackson. Yeah, they call it white pipe. What does it do? They smoke it.

I mean, when you smoke it, it makes you really relax. I thought quailudes were pills. They are, they smoke pills. They smoke pills. You just put the pill, you break it up and put it in there? Yeah. Like a meal topper for dogs? Yeah, it's a broken bottleneck, and then they put a filter in that they call it diamond, and then...

Smoke quailudes. And then you smoke these. Quailudes, they often have swastikas stamped into them. Why? It's the right way or the wrong way? The right way. Oh. I mean, the wrong way, it depends on it depends on it.

No, the ones in India are like the wrong way. Not the, uh, oh right, the wrong way. Yeah, good point. I guess the Nazi one is the wrong way. Wait, what does it do to you? I've never, I've always been interested here and Joey's talking about it, but I'm always like, I want to, I mean, I'm not going to, yeah. It's very relaxing. It's very nice.

It's very disinhibiting. It makes you feel very noodily. There's a lot of muscle. relaxation. You feel good. It's nice. Joey, let's get some quailudes. He can find out if anyone can. Or actually, you probably. Sorry. Sorry. It's not disrespect. So, okay. So you go there to try to what, meet this guy and just or just to meet the guy, but also to learn about how the Mandrax market in South Africa continued after Project

Coast and what was fueling it because there were these other really, weird factors that helped it remain in South Africa longer than anywhere else. And one of the things that I'd seen this had been documented in passing in some, I think it was like some article about conservation of abalone. And they were, it's illegal now in most places. Yeah. And it was about abalone poaching. And they noted that there was a tremendous demand for abalone in China and that there was sometimes a direct exchange of this precursor chemical and acetyl ancillanthoric acid that's used to make quailude for abalone because you can get all these precursor chemicals from China because chemicals are coming from China in general and this would allow people to poach

this rare organism trade it for precursors that could then be converted into quailude. Interesting. Yeah. So I was also very interested in that bizarre little ecosystem and just how people were making the quailude in general because that's almost entirely undocumented and really wanted to get into a quailude lab and observe the process, which was extremely difficult. Because of how legal it was? Yeah, because people don't usually want to invite outsiders into an operator. It's very benefit of this. It's saying like, oh, I'm really, I'm on your side and I'm really interested in chemistry.

It's true. I am on their side and I am really interested in chemistry and do wish to do this from an educational perspective. And obviously, I'm not going to fuck them over in any way. But at the same time, even then, there's almost nothing to gain. Actually, the person who eventually, there were two main leads. The first one was this catastrophic miscommunication where we traveled. I can't even remember where we were. It was like somewhere around Cape Town.

But we met with this guy who had an operation. And at some point, I had told these people like, yeah, you know, I've done a lot of this related chemistry and I'm very familiar with how all the stuff works. And it had maybe got lost in translation that I was not applying for a job to work in this lab. Yeah. So we met with this guy and he was like, okay, all right, we're willing to. to pay you like, I think it was like 40,000, you know, 40,000 a month to do this. I mean, it would be a good way to observe. And I was thinking like, oh, this is not really my intention.

It is tempting. But, uh, pay for your documentary. You're in there observing. You get a paycheck. Yeah, yeah. It's actually might be the best way in the most access. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, very good access. I mean, if you're trying to do a documentary on the, the White House, get a janitor job there would be all access. Yeah. job as a politician. Yeah, sure. That's harder, but yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So I was like, oh, you know, well, I'm really trying to film, film this process. And he was like, film it for what? And I was like, oh, I'm making a documentary about this. And it was clear. It was the first time anyone had ever mentioned this. And so both of us were thinking like, oh, this is really not what we thought was happening. And I was able to find another guy who had a friend who is a musician who is willing to trade us making a music video for him in exchange for observing.

I remember this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's actually something like that has happened to me twice at least. Oh, maybe it's a different one. Yeah, yeah. This also happened in the cannabinoid lab where there was a like this. It's a weird thing how that tends to work. But, but.

But is you make another video? Yeah, yeah. How many rock videos you've made in. As a part of making a different video. Yeah, it's a, it's a technique. And then we got access to this lab and filmed the process. And it was really cool. I mean, these are things that have never really been documented before.

A lot of this stuff, when you think about it, it's like the amount of rigorous documentation of all these things that are so important for public health and our economy, like how drugs are manufactured. It's almost never rigorously documented. And when it is, it's done in such a negative light that you don't really learn anything. Yeah, weird, when they talk about keeping, like, deforestation going. They're like, a lot of logging jobs will help the community. Right, right, right. Drugs feed a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you went to South Africa. Who'd you go with your team? Yeah. You scared it all? Because with me, South Africa, I'm like, I haven't learned enough which city is fine, between Jonestown and Cape Town,

which city's like, you'll definitely get kidnapped. You're too airheaded. You'll definitely get kidnapped. Yeah, I was not super scared. I mean, some of the chemical weapon stuff is a little, just because there's a little bit of a freakiness

in how unresolved it all feels when you see someone like that giving motivational talks. I mean, I guess. Who does he give in talks to, whites? Yeah, Afrikaners and at a high. high school actually. Really?

Yeah. Is it still super segregated? It depends on where you are. Okay. It depends on where you are or who you are. What did you say? Where you are. Were there ghettos that you saw?

Yeah. How were those compared to the NYCHA housing on Avenue D? Uh, I mean, probably not so different. I mean, it's, you know, if you're hanging out with people that are really in the throes of intense polysubstance use, it's usually like a somewhat grimy situation where it's like it doesn't need to be I suppose there are exceptions but when people are really like you know just going at it with meth and heroin and and everything else I mean there's also a lot of just very unusual drug use like the discovery is another separate documentary that I made a while ago that was like there there was

a habit of smoking this anti-retroviral drug called Favarins or Favirins. Anti-retroviral. Yeah. What does that mean? It's like an HIV treatment. Okay. Reverse transcriptase inhibitor if I. To give you?

What's, no, no, this is like a sanctioned medical intervention. I thought retroviral is to make AIDS go away. Yeah, that's, that's the point. And what's anti-retroviral? Well, HIV is a retrovirus. so it's preventing. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah.

Yeah. But you could also say, yeah. Severely limits the life extending benefits of HIV. Smoking while on Antroval. Okay, I get it. They were actually smoking and using this drug that was used as an HIV treatment. And in doing that, discovered that this drug had classical psychedelic effects, which was something It was totally...

Is it in South Africa or here? In South Africa. Okay. Yeah. Had psychedaleal effects. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. Like it acts as an agonist at the serotonin-2A receptor, which is the same... Can you get him a glass of water too? No other way. Okay. Which is the same pharmacological target as psilocybin or DMT. So, but much weaker, much, much weaker. But it was just another kind of interesting...

There's a lot of interesting... drug trends, also the discovery that Ambien could wake people up out of comas was discovered in South Africa. So for whatever weird combination of region, thank you. Whoa. There's just tons. It was always a place where I felt like there was this massive well of pharmacologically interesting stories. You talk to the guy, water. Briefly, yeah, very briefly.

What did he say? Do you tell him what you wanted to talk about? Yeah. And he was receptive or probably not at all? Not particularly receptive. He has done some interviews. About it? Yeah. Do you think they're really careful about like, hey, this is what the government decided to release. So that's what I'll also talk about and everything we have not released.

I've got to be very careful what to mention. Yeah, I mean, he still practices medicine. He's a cardiologist. So it could even be without. Dr. Death? Yeah. Dr. Death is a practice. He was last time.

He checked. Yeah. Motivational speaker, cardiologist, and death doctor. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. It's a wild story.

Where'd you stay while you were there? Different places. Nowhere particularly interesting or memorable. Not like. Shanghai. Yeah. And you just went for this stuff. Do you party at all while you're there?

Not party, but I mean like go try some local meals. Or you just work all the time? Yeah. Usually when I go somewhere weird, I'm usually there to research something or document something. It's kind of, I actually enjoy that. Like, it's my favorite way to interact with a place is to go and investigate some weird thing that I can only learn about in that location. So you're not looking to go to like, or here's a Michelin restaurant while we're here. Yeah.

You're like, let me see what they're smoking on the streets. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you guys, my friend Rolf was like, he's like, real travel writer, but he's like, I went to Houston for something. But he goes, I was a huge bushwhackers fan, some rap group. And he goes, so all my tourism of Houston was all like where the bushwhackers would rap about. Yeah.

And I was like, okay, that's a specific way to go see a place. Yours is also very specific. It's not like the top ten things are doing in whatever. South Africa. Yeah, because it's often, I mean, also even in the United States, it's not necessarily well documented. You know, you go to Japan or something and you wonder, like, do they sell weird synthetic cannabinoids in the smoke shops?

Like, does anyone even know? Is there any? Yeah, lonely planet's never in there. Yeah. Even how to get weed in places, it's like, you really got to ask. Yeah. You really got to have boots on the ground for that. There's a website for that.

I can't remember what it's. Not Arawan, right? No, not Aeroon. Aeroon. Arrowwood. No, wait. What's the one? Aros? No, that's for hookers.

What's the one? What's the drug one? Arrowwood. Arrowwood? Yeah, but there's a weed one that's like, I think it's called Wee B. High or something. And just like how to find weed in every place? I think so. I used to work with a guy who had Crohn's disease who really needed to be stoned all the time. So I think that was what he would use. I think it was called Weebe High. You ask also if you get somewhere, like where, like the town square, see who's making jewelry, who's not old.

Ask them. Yeah, yeah. Or like, go to a hostel. If it's for weed, go to a hostel and like ask around. Yeah, yeah, it would be the first thing. Whenever we landed anywhere, you would start with the cab driver or whoever. Like, oh, so what is it like, what is the, like, do people use weed here? Is weed a thing?

Like, what are your thoughts on that? You can't get it in, so you get to find it every time. Medically, you got to find it fast. That's such a weird way to travel too. So you talked to the guy or you went to one of his motivational speaks. So what did you find? How did you like it overall? I found it very mysterious and I still am not.

I think that there's still deeply mysterious aspects of what happened. It's similarly to MK Ultra. I mean, similarly to Cointel Pro. Like, you know, there's a lot of these things that we just get to see small snippets of whatever happened. And when you see something like that, it's very provocative. You want to find more. I hope that more is discovered. There's a great book about it called Secrets and Lies by Chandra Gould that is worth reading.

It has been pretty extensively researched, but I think there's still many aspects of this that don't have a satisfactory explanation. Yeah. Did you find any mandrax when you were there? Do you take any? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was huge, huge amounts. I collected some samples and did analysis on them. I've tried Kualud, like, before.

Before, after. I'm an enjoy. So I'm like more of a pothead, but like, but like, even more like mushrooms in different places like a little bit like with weed I'm like I owe it to the country to do a proper analysis of what the weed strength is like here you know so I could actually like mention like

Amsterdam wheat is generally not as good as Denmark weed and people like what I'm like it's just not as readily available but like you know and then Spain I haven't tested enough but I've heard that it's pretty good there yeah you know or it's like getting a slice of cheese bezo so you could actually say what's better slice Yeah I'd want to try it in each place

Yeah Like the powder in Germany is the best Of any kind Powder Any kind of powder What do you mean? What powder? Ecstasy, Mali

Coke Interesting Any sort of powder there is so pure It's just is the thing That it's supposed to be Yeah Versus here where it's like It's like finding out the healthcare system

In another country versus here And you're like I thought ours was good Ours sucks. Yeah. That's how our powder is compared to, like, other places. And the infrastructure for testing is not great in the United States, so it's harder. I mean, the whole, there's so many things that cause a drug market to be destabilized and dangerous.

And one of them is inadequate testing facilities. Yeah. So I'd want to know that the Kualoids there stronger than the ones here. Or are they exactly the same? Is it just like? I mean, they're, they're custom. made for that market. So they're pressed into these really thick tablets. They don't look like an American pharmaceutical quailude tablet in addition to the swastika or other things that

were sometimes stamped onto them. And they are probably, I mean, one issue with the synthesis of the chemical and quailude metacualone is that when you're synthesizing it, you use this chemical called orthotoliuadine that's carcinogenic. It's a pretty well-established carcinogen, and it is possible to remove it entirely from the product, and it's not terribly difficult, but when you're doing it at a huge scale and maybe you don't care that much, it's pretty easy for there to be residual orthoteliodean left in the material. That's a little scary. If it's a one-off thing being exposed to it, it's probably not a big deal, but if it were a drug that you were using daily, which meant a of these people do it starts to get you so that was that would be one difference is that

the pharmaceutical quaylid tablets were definitely not contaminated with orthotolioidian that's the when ecstasy was i guess the tail end of it was big when i when i moved to l.a in 99 so like 99 2000 it was like it was a party drug for sure used a lot but like the difference in people used it twice a week like every friday and saturday versus people use like once every couple months was like you could see it start to affect people. You know, when they weren't on it. There's always say it shoots holes in your nervous system, which I never understood what that meant.

But like, habitual use of it was like, oh, this is fucking with you. Yeah, I think people that do it all the time can destabilize themselves a bit. I guess it's like that with alcohol and weed too. Yeah. It's like, chill, dude, you're not the same guy. Yeah. So first of all, why were there swastikas on there?

And then, and then what were they putting it into the, how are they controlling the population? it I don't know they were I think it's maybe you know the the hand-wavy explanation would be to promote addiction and weaken the community something that was sort of the reason that people found the Gary Webb Dark Alliance reporting so compelling was a similar idea that the CIA would be complicit in destabilizing impoverished black communities what but I don't think that in either their instance, there's evidence of that specific intent.

If anything, the operative concern was money in both instances. Right. So like in the God, I think the Godfather, it was like that fight of like, we're not selling Coke. It might have been something else too, but we don't sell coke to our own. But we'll sell it to the, to the, to the, whatever, blacks. Yeah. Like let them fuck over their community.

But they're not trying to keep the black community in the movie anyway down. They're just like, it's a shitty drug. We're not going to give it to Italians. Right, right. Or in China, they were like, don't seem to care about weed because Chinese people don't smoke weed. But they're like, if you have opium here, we're going to fucking hang you. Because that's our population is being affected by it.

Yeah, and there's a long history there. Yeah. Yeah. So like, so like, yeah, I could see it being, every time there's a conspiracy, I'm like, look at the stupidity possibility and then the very devious possibility and then anything and just money making. Yeah. So it was like, I could see it maybe, maybe either.

being let's control the black population keep from getting smarter and rising up i can see just like just make some cash we're not going to give this to the white community because we care about ourselves and they're they're like benitos kind of vibes or like or just like i don't know let's just test and see what happens we'll figure out later yeah and it will probably never be known with certainty because it's not the sort of thing that people typically come out and say yeah like oh yeah yeah That's what we were trying. We wanted to just really harm black people as much as possible and destabilize them in any way that they could. I mean, Cointel Pro, I don't know if you've ever looked through that stuff,

but the FBI was really seriously trying to prevent any black power movements in the United States and were really seriously interfering. You know, it's actually pretty shocking. And that was only all that documentation was only released not through FOIA or anything. like that through a robbery. The documents were stolen. So they never really revealed any of this? Yeah, they never intended to reveal anything related to Cointel Pro, and it's pretty shocking.

I mean, they were trying to convince Martin Luther King to kill himself. I don't know if you've ever seen that. Have you seen that? No, so it didn't have to look like a, like a assassination? Yeah. No, really? Through psychedelics? No, no, no.

They sent him this really kind of horrifying letter to, in an effort to try to blackmail him and convince him to kill himself. What do you mean? Like what kind of letter? It's like we we have the documentation that shows you're a fraud and your wicked deeds are about to be released to the public. Why don't you just save? Why don't you just do what you know? Like what wicked deeds?

Fucking white chicks? I think they had some evidence and maybe he'd had sex with the had an affair or something like that. I can't remember. It was, you know, some stupid. Oh, I heard some like unconsensual stuff maybe. I don't know about that. I don't know. But yeah, just finding.

They were tapping his phones. They were, I mean, they did the same thing to Malcolm X as well. So there was, uh. You ever see the Martin Luther King Photoshop's of like that they put in and try to convince people he was a bad guy? No. In the 60s, it was like, look at him with like, I don't know, all these white people or whatever. But they didn't have Photoshop back then, so it's just really bad. But back then it was like, I see what I see.

Yeah. Like an early AI. We're like, that doesn't look like, my head doesn't, isn't this long. But for the first time you see it, you're like, oh, it's definitely, definitely true. What are these lines around him? You're like, that's cut and paste. Yeah, you can read it online. You can read the letter that he was sent.

It's publicly available now. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And you should just kill yourself? Yeah. If you, yeah. It's, um, if you type in MLK.

Yeah, I put in some of those, those, those photoshopps later. But, uh, wait, put in this. I want to see that. I want to read this. Um, this may have just been the FBI pre-cointel pro. I need to. Cointel pro. Uh, right?

The suicide letter. Yeah. The FBI said an anonymous manipulated with Dr. King and his wife urging to get suicide before fabricated expose was released to the public. Wow.

Because they didn't want him, I mean, obviously making twerking gang. And that's what our government was doing. I mean, so it's like when you see stuff like that, like the taxpayers were funding the FBI trying to convince MLK to kill him.

Like you start to Understand why the Gary Webb Hypothesis is Attractive to people and doesn't feel so far-fetched Hey, I'm breaking in real quick So I was wrong The billboards were to make Martin Luther King seem I just want to get it right

To make Martin Luther King Because Nehna looked that you couldn't find it The billboards were to make Martin Luther King Seem like a communist So they doctored those images And those are the ones you've shown Show them again right now real quick Okay

And then in surveillance, they had Martin Luther King alongside photos of men and women eating together interracial. Surveillance photos showed Dr. King and other activists sitting at dining hall tables next to white female civil rights organizers. And then they put text along with that to make it seem like it was something that wasn't. And here's the text. Social integration is a primary objective of the school. Here, I've got to be real careful with this. white and negro patrons are shown mixing at dining tables, breaking down the natural barriers between the races.

The agent captured, oh, so this is surveillance. The agent captured frames of black men and white women laughing, chatting, and square dancing during a recreational evening in the campus barn. The text printed directly beneath these images read, the photos above illustrate the mixing of the races in social events at Montego, under the guise of labor education and civil rights. White women and Negroes are encouraged to intermingle freely demonstrating the ultimate goal of the integration movement,

the total destruction of segregation and the traditional southern way of life. And then alongside photos of Dr. King talking in public spaces, there's pamphlets that included images of Dr. King standing in the hallways and outside on the grass, speaking with integrated groups of students and teachers, including white women. Texts printed directly beneath these images, so they put text below an image to make it seem, and they're still doing this now with memes, you know. Famously that Donald Trump one was like, you could say anything, you could fool anybody,

say you're a Republican, they'll believe anything. And it was like, I don't think not even a quote. Jerry Seinfeld had, what's the deal with? And it's like, did you even ever say that? That's less of an example, because I don't think it was a meme. put an image with words and people just naturally put them together. Trevor Noah's racist tweets and then you show the tweets, now you go into it thinking these are racist and they're not. They were anti-Semitic. The text printed directly

beneath these images read, so this is him standing on the hallways outside of grass, speaking with, you know, white women and other people. Pictures of social events showing black and white patrons dining together, a plot to stir up racial strife and community unrest. So that's what they were doing. So there was a pamphlet they were handing out. The billboards was something else. The pamphlets was that.

And, you know, that's the way to get people to think, just through adding your own tax, whatever you want, that they were doing kind of whatever they wanted, something they weren't doing. Civil unrest. It's crazy. It's crazy. A plot to stir up racial strife and community unrest.

And it works on everybody. It's worked on people that are really unbiased. They're like, I know what I saw. It happens again and again. I've seen it happen. Then you get more context. You're like, oh, maybe it's not that. So this is before even Photoshop, like really good Photoshop.

I guess not really bad Photoshop. And like AI for sure. So anyway, that's the reality. Back to the episode. Sorry to break in, but I wanted to get that right. Wow. You know all through when I was in Latin America, look at all the redactants.

Why release something if you're obviously, not showing it. Also, just re-type it without the fucking blanked-out stuff. I don't understand why they just have a marker. All through Latin America, Coca-Cola is responsible for, like, deaths of, like, political candidates. They're, like, left-wing because they might eventually unionize their population and charge of nickel more per hour for their employees. Right. So they're, like, get rid of that guy. Right. Before he gets in power. I want to read this letter It was all redacted

No, no, I think that's it I think that link is in That? Make that big No way my fucking two eyes I'll read that Oh come on Vox Fuck it

I think that pre There we go In view of your low grade Oh man I'll go away in a second right Yeah Low grade abnormal personal behavior I will not dignify your name

With either a mister or a rist or a rome Reverend or a doctor. And your last name calls to mine only the type of king, such as King Henry, the eighth, and his countless acts of adultery and immoral conduct lower than that of a beast. Who's writing this? Oh, they just write King. I look into your heart, your complete fraud and a great liability to all of us Negroes. White people in this country have enough frauds of their own.

But I am sure you don't have one at this time that is anywhere near your equal. You are no clergyman. Jesus. I want to get to the part. No person can overcome facts. Lend yourself sexually psychotic ear to the enclosure. You will find yourself in all your dirt, filth, and evil moronic talk exposed. I mean, this is just a YouTube comment.

This is basic YouTube comment at the time. But if you're not exposed to those, you're like, oh, remember your first anti-Hamilton comment? And you're like, what the fuck? Someone thinks would be that way. And now it's like, it's fine. King, there's only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is. You have just 34 days in we should do this.

The exact number has been selected for a specific reason, but it has definite practical significant. You are done. There is but one way out for you. You better take it before your filthy, abnormal, fraudulent self is bared to the nation. Oh, wait, Jews. The American public, the church organization that have been helping, Protestant, Catholic, and Jews will know for what you are.

An evil abnormal piece. Oh, it's not about the Jews. So will others who have backed you? Were they just hoping he did something? Your sexual orgies. Whoa. Incredible. Wow.

So they tried to get into commit suicide. It didn't work, and then they just killed him. Or someone did. Yeah. I think, yeah, wasn't his, wasn't, well, his, I think his bodyguard was an informant, but the person that killed him was not, a government person.

I need to double check that. Every time there's like, so the government has an option to like, people are going to do stuff. We're aware of a lot of it because your intelligence is pretty good. Do you let it happen? Some people say that with maybe with October 7th

in Israel. They're like, hey, I'm about to be out of power. I'm in charge. They're coming after me for taking too much power. And then I heard this possible thing from the Palestinians, like, let it happen. Or the 9-11, you know, that theory that I knew about it,

but like, let it happen. Yeah. And then we'll go from there. Not James Earl Ray, but his bodyguard. If you type in MLK, bodyguard, FBI informant, I think I might be confusing the details here. It may actually have been Malcolm X. But let me. Oh, yeah, they say maybe he, Bernard Lee.

Lee began his civil rights. Okay. Oh, yeah. Directly privy to FBI targeting of King under Coyntil Pro. That's the one. Okay. Having been present when King received a letter from the FBI urging him to commit suicide, Lee sue the FBI in 1977 in an effort to force the destruction of surveillance recordings of King collected as after he was dead.

1963, what do you see in? I'm not seeing. You received a master's degree from Harvard. Yeah, nice. Yeah, maybe see if Bernard Lee was an informant. I mean, it sounds like he was. It was heavily infreling by both the FBI and my PDs undercover cops and security team. Gene Roberts stepped on Malcolm X security team was even one of the first people to administer CPR to the civil rights leader as he lay dying.

Interesting. And this is just like, so they're capable of trying to get into suicide. Maybe then murdering. I mean, when you hear Hillary Clinton go, like, talking about what's his name from WikiLeaks? Like, can't we just drone him? Right. They're like, no government's first thought is like, let's do this nicely. I mean, even what you said about the, you're like, oh, this is a YouTube comment, which is like a funny, but it's like also.

At the time, we've never seen one. Well, but also, you know, this is kind of the thing. You have bought farms. you have somebody that you don't like, have 100,000 people descend upon them, telling them that they're worthless every day on everything that they do, and it's all being orchestrated by some bot farm somewhere. I mean...

Remember that who killed cats documentary or whatever? They're trying to figure out who killed this cat. They thought they had a suspect. This is just like housewives organizing. And then it wasn't that guy, but that guy killed himself because of all the pressure on him. And they go, oh, shit, actually wasn't him. Let's go somewhere else.

I'm like, wait, you just killed this guy. Right. Right, right, right. Yeah, bot farms trying to come after you, but like everyone seems to be talking. About how bad you are. But just to get rid of him, I could see it.

If you're the government, you're like, this guy's trouble for us. And Biggie, Tupac, all the people who might, a lot of people died in weird circumstances who were leading. Yeah, it's hard because I'm sort of, I'm not really like, conspiracy guy, but at the same time, you look at Cointel Pro and you think, okay, well, there's

definitely stuff going on. Project host, MK Ultra. I mean, these are interesting examples because there's something horrible happening, but as we started the conversation with Ibegain and Joe Rogan, this is like, there's like weird behind the scenes stuff happening, although he acknowledged it, but it just happens to be a good thing. Right, and it might not be devious, but it might be Also, it might be that guy fucked my wife You know, or fuck my, you know, his son, fuck my daughter Get rid of him It might be shit like that even that you don't even know, you know

Whenever they're like, well, he hired his friend It's like, well, yeah, people hire friends all the time In non-devious ways. Right. It's just called looking out for people you know. Yeah. And so then it's like, is it a big conspiracy Or is it just like regular shit?

You know? Like if I was up for a contract for a fucking documentary About drugs and you and somebody else were applying, I'm like, well, how are you know, Hamilton? Yeah. I'll give it to him. And the other guy's like, but my, my application was better. It's like, yeah, I just don't know you.

Yeah. Or is it devious? Wow, it's so interesting. So they're doing the same shit in South Africa. Yeah, you should read secrets and lies. Yeah. There's probably other, that's the, I think, the most authoritative book about it. It's really amazing how little is known about South Africa's nuclear weapon program, their chemical weapon program, all this stuff that was happening.

It's like, it's just not really disgust. Yeah. Damn. So how'd you like it overall? What were the toilets like? I don't have any strong toilet memories. I like it a lot. Yeah.

I'm into, I mean, I've liked everywhere I've been in Africa. I like places where there's something that feels genuinely different where you're like, wow, this is, there's really stuff going on here that I've never seen before. Did you do the Ibegain ceremony up there in West Africa? Yeah. You did? Yeah. It was so beautiful and good.

It wasn't like a violent upheaval of purging everything. I mean, when I was ayahuasca, I was so worried about projectile diarrhea that I couldn't fully enjoy it. It didn't happen, but like, I was so worried about that. And I was like, no, nobody has that. No, it was, it was perfect. It was wonderful. It was, arguably, it was somewhat difficult at times, but it was really my vibe.

It was, for me, it almost. felt like I was tripping less than I had ever tripped before. It was like this hyper-rational understanding of my own personality and problems that almost felt like an external observer where it's like you can have a friend who's doing something that's stupid and you think like if only they knew that they just need to do this one thing differently and their life would be so much better if they just started exercising or they just stopped drinking or just stopped smoking weed or whatever, but they can't see it themselves. They can't, they're stuck in some loop of self-deception. And then to have this moment of reflection where you can kind of not even brutally, just sort of dispassionately, uh, look at yourself and say like, oh, okay. Oh,

that's stupid to, to feel that way. That's a really, like, don't you understand that you think you you hate this person, but you don't hate them. You're just protecting your own feelings. And that's, you're actually hurting yourself by thinking that you hate them. And you need to move past that. Like just as kind of anything you think, oh yeah, okay, very good. Ego destruction where it's like, you can see it. I feel like that with ayahuasca and mushrooms too, where it's like you, you know yourself better than anyone knows you. You've been there for all of you.

Other people are there for a short time. Yeah. You know, about like even your best friends. You're like, I'm not there with him 100% of the time. Yeah. But he is with him 100% of time. And then if you have that thing where you can look at yourself clearly, knowing everything about yourself.

Yeah, it's that like, well, Yeah, it's kind of like what you just described. And with mushrooms and with ayahuasca, I find that there's a greater emphasis in my experiences on things of sort of cosmic significance, like life and death and ancestry and time and, you know, all these like love, all these kind of big, profound components of your consciousness. Whereas with Iboga, in my experience, it was very practical. It was very grounded in reality. It wasn't like time doesn't exist, therefore you have no reason to worry or some kind of, you know, like that sort of thing or like there is no such thing as life and death or anything.

It was much more like this is what you should do in three months in order to like improve your life. It just felt very, very constructive. Were you with a tribe or like a group of people doing it? Yeah, it was with this great group of witty practice. also made a piece about it in the third season of my show. Was there dancing? There was incredible dancing, yeah. Did you participate?

A little, yeah. Did your best? I did, right good, yeah. I mean, I went to a Bob Marley birthday party at Howard night. It was the same one. I was like, guys, I'm going to try to join in here. But obviously, it won't connect. How many days in a road you do it, or how long?

I attended the ceremony for at least four days. I think they do it for even longer than that. And you take stuff, maybe it's five or six days. Some of it, they give you some, give other people some. How does it work? They have different doses for different people, for different purposes, people that are there to treat some kind of medical problem might get a certain dose. That's part of, there's a word for it, posology, the study of dosage. They use this themselves.

So it's, you know, they're very thoughtful about sort of assessing you and deciding how much you should take and when. and they redosed periodically and decide. Do they ask you about other drugs you've taken to, like, see how, what your tolerance might be like? No. That's what my shama did? It was like, what have you taken just in the past? It was so non-judgmental.

You know, like, it's some weed. It goes, what else? Like, I don't know, Coke twice a year. He's like, okay, how much weed? Mushrooms, acid? And you're like, yeah, you know, when it presents stuff, like, how often does it present itself? And he's almost like, cool, all right, I'll give you,

all right, I'm about a note. It's like when you're at a festival and somebody needs mushrooms. Like, you've ever done any? They're like, no, I'm like, all right, you're less. Yeah. Yeah, they, with the ayahuasca, you have a greater potential for drug interactions because of the MAOI activity of the vine.

That's why they're asking. I think that's one of the reasons is that there's potential interactions. With Iboga, there are also dangers because it causes this thing called QT interval prolongation, where it's like an arrhythmia. It kind of interferes with. with the electrical activity in the heart. And certain drugs could exacerbate that. Like one example would even be this very widely used antiemetic zophran.

So like that has a similar effect to Ibegain. And conceivably, if you were to combine the two, it could exacerbate it. And they're aware of that. They're not aware of that specific drug interaction, but they're aware that some people have a toxic response to evoga. Where did you take it? What country did you take it in? Gabon.

Gabon. But I also observed the traditions in Cameroon, but didn't take it there. And it's similar because it's like spreads. Some of these, this, it's like grows on one side of the Andes, Mathe, Yerba, excuse me, on just some trees. But then the cowboys would take it and kind of herd over. So the tradition spread there. But it's like predates borders like that. Yeah.

It sounds like wherever this plant grew. Yeah. They're just like, it's part of our tradition. Yeah. And the borders came later. Yeah. The history of it is not particularly well documented. It's usually attributed to pygmy people as the origin, but that is almost totally anthropologically undocumented as far as I know.

The mythology surrounding it is amazing. It's really fascinating. Do you feel clear afterwards? Clean? Yeah. Clean. Yeah. I do think it was very good for me.

Everything about it felt incredibly beneficial. So I'm delighted that people are pursuing this medically. I think it really does have the potential to help a lot of people. And if it turns out it doesn't, then we can, you know, stop using it or figure out a different alternative. But the, I mean, this Ed Clay guy was so into it 15, 18 years ago, whatever it was. He was like, you got to try it. I'll take you to a place to try it. I just like, I don't have money to go on a trip.

You can take it in Mexico. It is, I mean, there are dangers associated with it. I don't want to say that indiscriminately everybody should try it, but it's a pretty wonderful experience. And it's an West African tradition. So everyone's around? They got like drums that describe it a little bit. They've got drums.

They have dancing. They have a sort of theatrical. dimension where people assume different roles in the ceremony. So there's like, there's like a bogus soldiers who have like Iboga guns. What? And, and like army camouflage.

And they're this spirit, but the guns are props. And they're the soldiers spiritually protecting the area. So it's like they've really taken on all these symbolic, features and you have mermaids and you have kings and queens and all these different sort of archetypes that play into different elements of the ceremonies different drugs that are sometimes introduced as well tobacco colonut um yeah it's got to be some sort of this seems so similar different but similar to like and so andy and the shaman is like their words for their

is like similar to like the um kind of the warriors um in the linguistic like how they describe a shaman it's like it's a spiritual warrior like they're the general pretty much yeah same thing and then when they're like you're tripping out they're like get back in there and fight it's like i'll be your your general for this for this fight it sounds like that too where it's like it's so weird though because these those two drugs are i mean so far apart and there must be similar ones up like in like in in another area too yeah and there's different traditions some of the older ones are much more brutal and involve ritual scarification there's huge amounts of animal sacrifice as well a lot of chicken beheading you know against

stuff yeah a lot of blood uh mirror mirrors are sometimes used interestingly uh which was also observed more recently in a psychedelic mushroom tradition in lisotho by mirrors yeah mirrors yeah that's a fun one that's interesting yeah it's not a naturally growing thing unless you're out of pond you presumably this is a more recent introduction but and these rituals evolve and have regional differences it was actually even filming it was really difficult because in one of the areas they have a line down the center of the ceremonial room that divides men and women and you can't walk across the room. There's two doors for men and women and they're just a line in the middle.

And a line in the middle. And then even if there was a circumstance where you could cross, you can't cross directly. You have to go out the door and then through the other door to walk across the room, exit the building, walk around. And so things like that where the people who were filming it were expected to observe all this. made everything really very exhausting and difficult to. Were they on it while they were filming?

I don't think so. In some instances they would, during the San Pedro episode, I think most of it was filmed while the people that were filming it were on San Pedro. When you're being filmed, do you think that holds you back? From fully. Yeah, knowing you're kind of like, quote unquote, on the record. Your reactions are on the record. All the influencers trying to propose while they're holding a selfie, selfie stick.

It's like, this isn't your... Yeah, and for that reason, I was usually attempting to document the rituals more than my own experience. I actually didn't even want to be part of the Iboga episode, and it was a huge point of contention at Vice at that time because I, you know, I knew that I would there would be, I wanted to do an episode where it wasn't about me taking a psychedelic. I wanted to document just the tradition. And they didn't, they put, they were very permissive and allowed me to do a lot of things, but this had become a thing where they were saying, you can't not be in the episode. Not even that I need to be on the drug, but that I have to be in the episode. And so we kind of compromised them in it for maybe a couple of seconds, but I'm largely absent from that episode because I wanted to focus on the documentation.

So it takes me, it sometimes takes me out of it insofar as I am. You know, if I'm on camera, it makes it that much more difficult to manage the coverage of everything that's being shot and exactly how we're constructing things. I wanted to do when I was doing stuff like this. It just got the idea of like, I want to just embed myself there for like a month and just talk to people when they're going in and when they're coming out. Just like a book, but like you can't film them because they would know it being filmed, but just like beforehand like, what are you expecting to get out of this? And then afterwards, like, how do you feel? and then can I check in with you in a month? Yeah.

You know? And just one after, because everyone's going to have a different reaction to all this. That idea you had that ego death or whatever destruction of like, you can see myself. I want to, that would be different for different people. Yeah.

You know, just like I should call my dad more or like, should I abandon my daughter? I got to reach out and try to get her out of adoption. You know, would be a different experience. Yeah. It depends.

Yeah, I think it's very much dependent on the person and what they're going through. I mean, you even hear of people who take psychedelics and they decide like oh I need to get a divorce because you know everyone like and and that actually could be a very positive outcome that was one of the ones I told me there was this man a woman they always had fights every five to 10 months about kids one wanted it one didn't um but they're like I put in the backboard we're in love whatever and then it would come up again and they were just like we can't we can't get this out in jews

like do you want to move to Israel do you not you know or do you want to have 10 kids you know two. So this was kids or no kids. And then they're both on ayahuasca. And they both realize like, oh yeah, we're not meant for each other. Yeah. And they're very cool. And I was like, how are they now? The guy was like, he's friends with her kids now. Like she went on, had children. They're still friendly. They love each other in a different way. Yeah, but it's a positive divorce. Yeah. So how many days did you take it for? Or how many times? I only did, I may have done a very low dose on one of the days, but I only did one moderate dose. And it was somewhat mild.

I didn't go super deep into it. But barfing? I was sick at the height of it, but I didn't ever actually vomit. I dropped my phone into a pail of vomit. And while I was tripping, I dropped my phone into a pale of vomit and then had like a very symbolic. moment of like oh there's my phone beneath a pool of strangers vomit let me reach into the vomit of so many strangers to retrieve this device to entrance myself and thinking like oh this is this is the way

it always is it's all i'm always reaching through this pool of strangers vomit to access my phone like maybe i should just leave it in the pool of vomit it's wow yeah yeah everything's like symbolic like wow this really is metaphorical i had it we went to a music festival and this guy um day one we all camping and day one his phone pretty much died and then um we got there on wednesday and he's like whatever he took mushrooms for the first time and then four straight days of mushrooms lost his shoes early on had just a good festival experience and then on on my Monday morning, he plugged his phone back in. Somebody gave him a charger.

He plugged in to tell his boss, like, hey, I said I'd be there Monday, but I probably won't be. And she goes, well, this is not very ideal. You know, and just like, he was living music festival life with those shoes for that many days. And he was like, just saw it for what it was. And he goes, fuck this thing. I just chucked it.

And then his friend was like, no, stay. And she went out to go get it. She's like, you can get it later. You're not doing this. But just seeing something's that clear. Yeah, yeah. I'm reaching to be this drug vomit to fucking find this thing is going to take me out of it.

Did you have any things? I don't want to ask a typical question, but it's not like, what did you realize? What did you realize? How are you different afterwards? I felt a huge amount of clarity in terms of what I wanted to do in the coming years that I wanted to focus on chemistry and then did for years afterwards.

So it kind of helped me put my priorities in order for a period. and I think in general it also just had a mood improving effect. I think it's good stuff. I think they'll every, and it's not just Iboga or Ibegain. I think in that instance, the ritual was a big part of it because it also had a very community driven dimension where it's exhausting. It's just endless, endless dancing.

And they give you, you know something everyone's participating you ever rattle or something and there's this feeling of well like do I really need to be the 50th person to be rattling a rattle and you're but you're so connected to everybody else that you have this sense of like oh but I do because if I I'm rattling because the guy next to me is rattling and if he slows down and puts down his rattle then I might think oh well he's taking a break so I should stop rattling and it will ruin the momentum of this entire group because everybody has to be reinforcing each other's momentum and enthusiasm and engagement in this process and everybody is totally interconnected.

And if one person were to falter, it could have this butterfly effect that would diminish the power of the entire group. And it was good. It was like I really felt how connected everybody was. And then of course, this is the case all the time, but you feel it. powerfully in that moment. It's funny, it makes you do it. Like, you're actually doing one of these

or, like, bit in a drum or something like that. You can hear it, so you're like, yeah, you're like part of it. Yeah. Damn, it's interesting. Temescal's do that, too. You get in there sweating. Oh, okay. And they're, like, take an instrument before you get in there.

And, like, say, like, why? I don't need to do this. I'm like, what do you mean? Why? Everyone's doing it. Yeah. How long did it last for it before you start jogging back into your old ways? I think there was like a effect that lasted for a few days probably, maybe a little longer.

Yeah, it's usually with psychedelics you have an immediate effect and then you have maybe some afterglow that might last a week or maybe a little longer. And then you do have to integrate the experience and try to maintain whatever constructive insights you might have had and bring those with you into. normal life. There's a different type of psychedelic that there's got to be other ones. So it's like Ibegain where there's a ceremony days at a time, ayahuasca in like the Amazon I guess area. Yeah. And that is like Western Africa.

There's got to be more. There's got to be other like long ceremonies like where it's different than just taking mushrooms. You know what I mean? It's like a different thing than like some an adornashire. Oh, the sweet chal peyote and the Native American church, which has its own relatively recent tradition, but also involves very long, um, all night ceremonies. And more recently, there is a, a healer named Betsy Sathonti, who published a paper

documenting a tradition in Lesotho of mushroom use that is a bit different, maybe a little bit closer to a micro dosing type situation, but that was, nobody knows exactly how long that tradition has existed. But it was undocumented, not just in terms of the tradition, but even in terms of the species of fungus they were using. It was a new species of salosobi, Solosobi, Maluti is what it's called. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the way more powerful.

There must be something in Asia. There must be. If it's any sort of like God or nature of planting these things for like, what? I don't know, because Ibegain and ayahuasca are different, but the process seems so overlapy. And then, of course, you have San Pedro in Peru. That's a huge, huge tradition. Yeah, there's probably other smaller ones.

There's probably many that have emerged and disappeared. You know, people endlessly debate whether there was any Sonoran desert toad venom-associated traditions or isn't strong evidence for it, but it's not out of the question that's something like that, could have been discovered and maybe hidden, maybe forgotten. Forgotten. Yeah. You also have anadanthra seed traditions in Argentina.

Yeah, especially if you get attacked by another tribe and you're not writing the shit down. You're just passed by orally. And everyone gets taken captivity or killed. Like, Trisha's done. No one knows about the one drug anymore. The entire languages disappear. Yeah. It's certain that medical practices could very, very easily disappear.

or that we would have inadequate tools for even understanding some of these medical practices because something could be operating on principles or chemistry that is unanticipated and it takes a long time to even figure out what was going on. Yeah. Did you, okay, two more questions. Did you sleep there and stay with them in Gabon? I didn't. I don't think anyone was maybe some of the-

How many days were you there? Do you go back to a hotel or do you go? I went back to a hotel. Every night. Yeah. This is daytime shit or nighttime shit? Nighttime. And then at some point, 2 a.m. or whatever, you would like,

all right, let's get out of here. Yeah. But it was, it appeared to go almost continuously. It was like, they would be going when we got there. It would keep going when we left. The main thing was that it was so unbelievably exhausting for the two DPs that were filming it. One of them actually collapsed from exhaustion while filming. I mean, it was because it was unending.

Wow. You know, with a normal. You need to like, hey, take the camera. a bit, I'll come back and relieve you. Yeah, I mean, you would need like 10 people. Because it just stuff never stopped happening. It wasn't like, okay, breaking for lunch, like, uh, you know, put down your, your gear. We're going to start back at three.

It was, it was like it's happening spectacularly nonstop and all around you all the time. And there's plumes of fire and there's people improvising drums and there's new costumes. And, whoa, because they're playing roles. That's so interesting. That's so like Guatemalan, too, where they, they, oh, their saint, their saint day, whatever comes in and they're all, they all have these different, like, the animal costumes or, like, even colonizer costumes playing these roles to help them along. And I don't know how much drugs are associated with it, but, like, you have the replays of stuff.

Did you have anything? Damn, it's so fucking cool. Did you have anything later where you're like, I'm changed, but I don't really love that. Yeah, I mean, not all psychedelics are necessarily good. I think it was never just about the drug. I was sort of, or it was never about just having a good drug experience. It was about documenting these things.

So with bufotinine, for example, that's a drug that's pretty, I don't think people have really figured out a great way to harness whatever benefits. Boffet, obviously, it's there in the word. So the tradition is boofing bufotin. Yeah. Is that where it comes from? It's not where it comes from. I wish. I so wish.

Okay. Yeah, I wish. But yeah, I mean, there's tremendous archaeological evidence of ancient rectal use of bufotin containing seeds in South America. Tremendous amounts of use. Well, I mean, like when I was. So, like, after ayahuasca, I'm like, I had no appetite anymore for, like, comedy fights. We were always fighting with each other.

Oh, like being mean, like actually being mean to each other? Yeah, like, that guy did this and like, and like someone snaps at you online and going back and forth, like, you know, shitting on each other. Right. It wasn't on like, we shouldn't be doing this. I just have no. It's just like I used to be in golf and not be like, I want to go golf and you go, not really. There's no real desire there. I don't hate golf.

I'm just having no desire for it. Yeah. That's how I feel about those comedy fights now. Yeah. And I'm like, it's a little bit too bad. It's better for me not to, but every once in a while, I would love to just, instead of ignoring something, to be like, all right, let me make a funny retort and do this publicly. There's probably drugs for that, so you could, you know, start. Get back in.

Shooting testosterone. Yeah. I'll get in there in a second. Let me find a dealer. Yeah. I'm saying, are there anything like that? We're like, I'm changed, but I do miss that. Does that make sense?

It makes sense. yeah that you want to be a little fucked up not so much with psychedelics i i mean with other drugs definitely you know with like ambian or something the changes are like explicitly bad where it's like great now it's hard for me to fall asleep without this drug that's a terrible change um that so bad change you know i i'm aware that psychedelics can have negative effects for some people some of the time but my own experience with them has been extremely positive and constructive and the like the worst of it is like a few experiences that weren't good or constructive but even that was nothing compared to like all the positive being dependent on ambient

or something like that or nicotine yeah bad trips i try to explain it to someone like a bad mushroom trip it's like it's it's not as bad as sit next to a fucking crying two-year-old on a cross-country flight you know like keeping in perspective so did you how did you get in we're going to wrap this out how did you get in Gabon how did you get in with them just money Yeah, well, it's They're very proud of their tradition We actually Are they like protective of it?

No, no, no, no, no, very much the opposite Which is cool. It's a really good vibe. There was a local guy who went to a bunch of the different groups And filmed pre-interviews with them And I then went through them with the producers that I was working with And we selected the church, the Bui-T group that seemed most interesting.

And then met with them in person. And they were super delighted. They watched the documentary before it went out and approved it and were. Really? They were like, no, no, no, no, they were happy. They were really happy with it. Because they think it's amazing. It's like, you know, it's like.

What do you mean they improved it then? Approved it. Oh, okay, okay. They may have, I mean, they also improved the documentary by being in it. But, but yeah, they, they, they, they were. were like for them it was like they put on this amazing performance and this is a beautiful documentation of this thing that they're very proud of and not at all um possessive of a part of the thing was sort of during the peak of my trip she gives me this handful of iboga fruit and she's

like you have to plant these you have them you have to take this back and you have to grow this you have to propagate to take it back where to the u.s They want you to plant it, grow it, and then run a ceremony? Yeah, they want it to propagate the sacrament to make it available to as many people as possible. It wasn't a possessive, secretive. Right, take this to your land, grow it there. It'll be great. It'll be sick.

Make this available to as many people as possible. Wow. Damn, interesting. Gabon. Where's Gabon in them at? Western? Middle. It's central.

Central. But it's on the Western Central. other country yeah oh right under Cameroon so he was in Cameroon too yeah like back out a little bit oh no maybe it wow and so this grows what do you think everywhere there in that in that little um yeah i think it extends into Congo and um the exact distribution i'm not even sure exactly how well it's been characterized are different tribes we gotta get out of here are different tribes doing it differently the ceremonies differently yeah yeah yeah when i had when i had that one these You know what I'm talking about with like the ayahuasca and Ibrahimagane?

It seems like the ceremonial type. That's a different type of psychedelic, but in another category. Does that make sense? You're going to sit here with me for days. Yeah. Do this is a different thing than like. Smoking DMT. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not as ceremonially based, you know? So there's like, I don't know where they are, but anyway. But when that, I was like, I was someone who was like, why aren't you fasting? You're still two days out. You're supposed to not eat at all. And then this botanist's wife, who was a shaman, she was like, it's different tribes do it differently. And he was like, all right, fair.

And some are like, just skip breakfast that day. You're fine. And you just got to listen to each, each, I guess. It's also mystical. Yeah. Anyway, buddy. All right. Well, thank you very much.

Guys, you can see all this stuff at patreon.com slash Hamilton Morris. Yeah, it sounds like a good one. I got to get on there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You should watch the Booker document. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Okay. Kind of mind that for pictures for this? Yeah. Okay. Hell yeah. Okay. But yeah, everybody get on there and watch it. Bro, thank you.

Thank you. Congratulations on your Trippi Award. Thank you so much. Yeah. There's only like six different categories. Best drugs is one of them. So way to go. Yeah.

The last one with somebody who did, yeah, or something like that in Cambodia. Got toast with something. Anyway. All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody. Go sign up for his Patreon.

I don't know, man. I don't know. We were supposed to bring it home this year. I don't know. That's the episode, anyway. Hope you had a good time. It was supposed to be coming home. Everything about this season lined up for an England win.

And it didn't happen. What? Wait. Wrong. Tushal? More like Tushy. I can do better than that. Terrible.

Fucking terrible. Well, great episode anyway. Thank you very much. Hamilton Morris for coming in. Guys, please check him out. Subscribe. I don't tell many people to subscribe to someone's Patreon. The Yuba Tripp and Patreon has begun research on the trip around the world.

I know I spoke about this. I mean, well over a year ago. It's finally happening. I'm also looking into a way to get all the episodes of, would this be something you guys would want? I put all the episodes of an old podcast called Skeptic Tank up there. I'm not really going to, I don't really, I don't make Shang Gillis money on these patrons.

So I'm not really looking to like do more work. But I could house those up there. Send someone on a trip around the world. That's successful. Do it again, maybe every year. do very little and then an occasional well we'll get into it

anyway there's a ubi chip in patreon if you want to subscribe but don't subscribe to hamilton morris's patreon because he actually uses that money to do crazy psychedelic research where he goes to places like gabbon and fucking does it with the junglers that's not the right word

I know that's not the right word tribesman in gabon dude I didn't know what gabon was a country I legitimately didn't know as a country find him on Instagram at Instagram.com slash Hamilton Morris. Find him on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at Hamilton Morris.

He just released two weeks ago an episode, 45-minute little documentary that he always does, these crazy cool documentaries called synthetic ibogaine dash natural tremidol that I'm about to watch as soon as I'm done with his outro

because it relates perfectly to this episode. Gotta be a Trippy Award nominee. By the way, anytime you see a trippy nominee, even if it's not a category we've had, best drugs, for sure. Even the last one, you didn't even do drugs, just the researching Chinese drug labs,

was worthy of not just a nomination, but a win for best drugs on an episode. Best meals, and I don't mean best food. I mean best meals. So, like, Rolf Potts got nominated for eating at a monastery in the fucking mountains of Syria. Afghanistan? I think Syria.

You got to get Rolf on. I'll go take a ganner to his class in Paris. He'll stop by for a couple days. Do another episode with him outside. But anyway, Patreon.com slash Hamilton Morris. That's it. I've got no dates. Please get the end.

If you get the end right now until the end of August, I believe, maybe the end of July. You want to jump on it. you're going to get every YMH live. For the one-year anniversary of YMH, they're kind of done because they're live things. They're passionate them all together. So if you've already bought the end, Rishafir.com right now,

$2,99 for every episode, that's just over $4.4 per episode, four, if you count the prelude, prequel, prelude, that costs a ton of money and was done by a crazy cool acclamation artist named Will Child, then you just get two for free.

So it ends up big about $4. Each for a crazy lineup, guys. Support the show and support me in my crazy ways. You want to do Hamilton Morris. That's fine. You got like four pounds a, four pounds a month for the Mench category. And here, let me read it.

I have it in here. But me too. It's like, you do that for five, seven months and you've already got seven episodes of the end. I can just not this is not happening but it's pretty close I am now releasing a podcast that consists of interviews with chemists, pharmacologists and other people

I find interesting at this tier it's four pounds a month probably five bucks you'll be able to access all podcast videos and other materials each month I will release a Q&A podcast questions asked by Patreon's patrons at higher tiers receive priority and Discord access Hey is there a UB tripping Discord

there should be someone commented that there is, there should be get in there and start it up. It should be free for everybody. Eight bucks to Uber Mench. At this tier, any messages or questions you have will be prioritized for response to the monthly Q&A podcast. The added support you provide helps fund more ambitious video projects. Yeah, Duncorner's podcast, it goes back to you. 1950, Luftmensch. Response is guaranteed. Just make sure to specify the same message and questions you sent, wow. Making new documentary projects, expensive, money of this tier will greatly facilitate the

filming of new doc projects. Go ahead, guys. If you like psychedelic research, go support him. That's it. What a fucking episode. So now I got to get to this. I got to get to the problems at hand. No, this way.

They lost. We were up 1-0 in the 55th minute. We're up 1-0 in the 82nd minute. that means with about 18 minutes left to play there would have been 17 minutes left to play if they didn't fucking let up any goals England's going to the finals

and they didn't they didn't do it they played defensive in a way it was like they were all over it they were a England was up 1-0 and it felt like they were down 10 to 1 Argentina was all over us you could feel at the bar two shots at the cross bar we got lucky

you gotta survive but it's like there's no attack. They just stopped attack. I heard Messy say, we could tell England didn't want it. I've been waiting since 1966 for this. 60 years I've been waiting. And I thought this was the year that it's coming home. Well, it wasn't. It wasn't at all. It's a disappointment. But man, I'll tell you this, pub culture for World Cup games. I got to do it. I'm done. Done as a fan. if I had my shit out of the storage I would put my Tottenham jersey on. Personalized Tottenham jersey with

Shafir in the back. I'm a Hotspur Plus member now. I can't wait for the season. We're making some moves. I am still going to call it soccer. My plan is to anger the British people by mocking their accents and calling things like soccer

instead of the lift, the elevator. This guy ordered at a pub, I was like, can we get a brat worst? And he goes, Do you mean the sausage and chips? I go, no, broadwurst and French fries. They know what I mean. We're the dominant culture.

We're the dominant colonized. Isn't that funny? We colonized the United States, but we broke off. We were the colonies. No, that means we're the colonizers. Yeah, the U.S. is the colonizers. Damn, damn.

But then we were like, hey, you can't colonize us. It's like Taiwan. Am I right about this in Taiwan? They were like, hey, we're out of here. want some political freedom. We're going to leave where we don't get persecuted. Then they went to this area of Taiwan where they just decimated the local population. And they go, okay, we got to eradicate them. But leave us alone, China. We're the good guys. Everyone's the bad guys. Anyway, guys, that's the episode. I really have nothing left to say. Go get the end right now.

Ari Shapir.com. You will receive all the YMH lies for free right now as a bonus for the one-year anniversary of YMH Live, but only until, I think, ought to be mid-August at the latest. Why don't you just do it right now? If you're new to this podcast, please subscribe. If you're here for Hamilton Morris, guys, I do episodes every week about travel to different places. They are, in fairness, not as exciting as this one usually, but they are pretty exciting

from people who have gone over to crazy places, had to hunt crocodiles for food in the jungles of Congo, to people who are. were taking their very first trip abroad in Greece and had to work up the courage to get themselves a dune buggy because they're afraid of getting cheated. I get both of them. I relate more to the duneboggy one. That was an H. Foley episode. We've got a great backlog, and we've got a whole bunch, and I do want to do this, by the way, anyone who hasn't guessed yet, give it away two free tickets to a show. I will leave a comment. You should know this. I mean, I do a travel podcast, so you should kind of know I've talked about probably all these countries.

Look at the Tom Segura episode when I got back from traveling in South America. That should do it. 24 of the 48 countries in World Cup I've been to. 20 of the 32 that advanced, I've been to. And then what else was there? Let me go to the U.B. Trippin podcast, YouTube, to see my comment where I left a hint.

If you guessed the 24, two free tickets to any show. let me do this here okay come on load up please load up please this is wales with joe lice and saraholamash really good episode intrigue and sexual relations okay nobody got this okay 24 of the 48 participatory countries 20 of the 32 in the knockouts teams 13 of the 16 round of 16 teams so i mean actually pretty much get it seven out of eight quarterfinal countries and four of four countries in the semis i also left more hints where in that

comment, I started telling people how many they got wrong. That should narrow it down. I mean, you know it's not breaking anything. America, you know it's England. You don't know. I mean, you've got to listen to the podcast a little more. God, I want you to get it. If not, then on next week's episode, we'll be Big J. O'Kerson, Amsterdam. Very fun episode. Like J. Zare. It's rarely about the place and more about his trip.

Um, love Blue J. Oakeson. Um, if not, I'm just going to tell you on that episode. If you don't get it on this, I'm going to tell you on that. How's that? How's that? How about that? How about that? Catch me outside. All right, guys. That's it. Thank you very much for tuning in. There was something I was going to say, but I don't remember what it was. Oh, pub culture. Yeah, whatever. Fuck off. All right. Thank you, Hamilton. I appreciate it. Dude, you rule. You really rule. And I'm going to take you up on that. offer you gave me next time I come back to the United States because I'm interested. Also, how do you get, I haven't really tried that hard yet, but where's the, how do you buy smoke here? Like, I smell it in the streets. It's everywhere. They don't, cops don't seem to care, but like, where do you get it? Does anyone know? Not like some hookup where I got to call you over. I mean, like, where would one get it if they don't know you? Leave a comment for the algorithm. Okay, bye.