You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Heavy Weather – Weather Report

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

Weather Report's Heavy Weather became one of the best-selling jazz albums of all time. But there's so much more to it than "Birdland", Heavy Weather's radio hit. In fact, Peter makes the case that it might just be the weakest moment of the entire record.Jazz pianists Adam Maness and Peter Martin break it down track-by-track: From Jaco Pastorius's fiery fretless bass, to Joe Zawinul's beautiful piano, to the less-than-perfect production. You'll never hear Heavy Weather the same way again.0:00 Heavy Weather - Weather Report2:55 The Origins of Weather Report6:29 Jaco Pastorius Joins the Band10:40 "Birdland"14:46 Birdland is the most popular. Is it the best?20:38 "A Remark You Made"25:17 "Teen Town"30:49 "Harlequin"36:22 "Rumba Mama"38:38 "Palladium"41:33 Production issues on Heavy Weather45:11 "The Juggler"50:59 "Havona"58:13 The Best Moments on Heavy Weather1:01:47 Is This Weather Report's Best Album?1:02:43 Up Next1:03:23 Open Studio plays "Teen Town" (with upright bass!)

I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Barton. And you're listening to The You'll Hear at Podcast. Music, Explored. Explored, brought today by Open Studio. Go to OpenSudiojazz.com for, oh, your jazz lesson needs. Peter, things are popping off over at Open Studio. I don't know if you know this, but we've got a bunch of new courses in the camera.

We've got a new course coming from legend Larry Goldings. Yes. So anybody who's interested in those beautiful triads that Larry Goldings likes to play, we have a course coming on that. We've got a new course featuring you and I called Jazz Piano for the Bandstand, where we teach you how to play with other people on the bandstand from our two beautiful pianos over here. I prefer to use the alternate title for that course. Two bad MFs teach you how to live a musical life.

But we didn't go with that. Marketing, can we change it, please? And then last but not least, you know, we introduce our pathways. Yes. To Open Studio just a couple months ago. So we have our Jazz Foundations pathway where I teach you the very beginnings of jazz piano. The Jazz Piano Expans pathway where we talk to intermediate players about how to expand their skills. and then of course you're the host of the jazz piano method

which is our ongoing crown jewel pathway for advanced players that's a very nice way of just saying that I only know how to do the advanced stuff because I somehow forgot everything on the way there so I brought in smart cats like you but yeah it's great and you're bearing the lead as we say we have a brand new platform we do have a brand new which is like a platter

it's like a digital platter in which the courses and pathways are stacked up yeah that thing is so fast it actually loaded a page before I clicked on it how didn't know what I was about to click It's intuitive. Go to openstudiojazz.com. That's open studio jazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs. Peter, it's a big day today.

It is a big day. This is one of our most requested albums on the show. Does our audience skew fusion? Because if so, they're going to be happy. There's a pocket of our audience that is the fusion pocket. Yes. And they are there. They've got pockets on their pants.

Whoa. He's coming in hot. I like it. But they want more pocket. They want more fusion pocket. And this is a classic jazz fusion album. I think, I know that, the guys in weather report don't like that term.

But I mean, when you think of Jazz Fusion, you think a weather report. Yeah. And I am very excited because, like I said, we've had a lot of comments, a lot of angry comments about... That we haven't done this. Why haven't you guys done heavy weather?

And so today we're doing it, 1977's heavy weather. But before we get into heavy weather, people... Yeah, yes. Start at the beginning. Just do it. So this band... Louis Armstrong, 1928, beginning of the recording industry.

So it's New Orleans, 1916. No. A young Joe Zavinole gets off the boat. So the beginning of weather report, start with a very familiar name around here at the You'll Hear podcast, Miles Davis. Right. So just before this was happening, Joe Zolvinol and Wayne Shorter, who had known each other for years, but they had just played on together in a silent way and Bitches Brew. Two enormous albums in the grand scheme of jazz history. And I think you could say fusion history, too, although they aren't exactly fusion albums for sure.

But they get together with some, a few other. musicians and they start this band, this project called Weather Report, and they record a self-titled album in 1971. And it's not like the album we're about to listen to. It sounds more like this. That's Miroslav on the bass. Yeah. Czechoslovakian at that time. Bassmaster. So you could hear how this is straight out of bitches brew. I mean, it's not exactly.

And in a silent way. And in the silent way. It has more of that tone to it than what Weather Report would eventually become. Whether Report would eventually lean in to the funk a little bit more. And just a few years later, in 1974, they released an album that you and I agree is one of our favorites. Yeah.

And we should redo this album. I don't know if you remember. We did Mysterious Traveler from 1974 from Weather Report. We did it during the pandemic. Right. Which pandemic? The COVID pandemic. I don't know if you remember because your brain is fried now.

COVID-19. I think it was COVID-19. Right. Didn't hit us until 20. Till 20-21. We're a little behind things. But we did in that Tuesday night series, we listened to Mysterious Traveler. And you could tell that something is changing by this point.

Right. Well, it's not mirrors a lot anymore. That's one thing. yeah it's a rotating cast of bass players drummers and percussionists Alphonse Johnson Alphonse Johnson This is Cucumber Slumber from Mysterious Traveler Damn

That bass is high up in the mix It's like the bass is above Wayne But it works Yeah right And that's not... What are you doing? This is a great song. The way they come out of it.

You know what? That'll be good. We'll come back and do that record. We should do Mysterious Traveler at some point. I think that might be artistically weather reports peak, but it was not their commercial peak. Right. So like I said, up until this point,

you know, it's mostly been Joe and Wayne and this rotating cast of drummers, bass players, and percussionists. And it happens again. They find a kid from Florida named Jaco Pestro. Shout off Florida. I'm a kid from Florida. Fun fact. This is keyboardists and founder Joe Zavental talking about

when Jocko joined the band. It was July 1975, exactly. We just came back from Boston. Cannibal Adelaide had died. It was a very hard thing for me. And I wrote a song was called Canaanball. I had this little melody in the beginning,

which I thought this guy's tone would be perfect for this kind of thing, you know. So we started right with this particular tune. And in the beginning, he was busy, you know. So it just stopped the band for a minute. And they said, you know what? We already know you can play. Forget about that.

You are here with us now, you know, with the veterans. They have a beautiful tone. Use that tone. And what happened at that point is on the record. Yeah. So he's talking about Jaco Pestorius, the bassist, who would make his debut with the band on a couple of tracks of their 1976 album, Black Market.

when he was just 24 years old, everybody else is in their 40s or 30s. Yeah. Jocco. And Joe Zavino and Wayne were like, they were the same generation. They were almost exactly the same age. And a generation before, Jock.

Here's that track. That track Cannonball with Black Market with Jocko taking the lead. Oh, yeah. Oh. Perfect percussion. Oh. Jaco famously plays a fretless bass.

Yeah. Fretless electric. That he fredded, that he de-fretted, I believe. Is that true? Yeah, I think it's a, I believe it's, we're not journalists.

Fender Jazz bass. Oh, yeah, he took the different frets off. Shout out Scott's bass lessons. I think I watched the video on that. This is, so this is the first Jocko recording, right? I mean, first time he recorded with it. Exactly, yeah.

Oh, man. Man, whether you report, I forget, so like, from the first album, Cucumber slumber, black market, what we're about to get into today, heavy weather. And then I'm going forward, like, I'm skipping over some stuff,

but I got to see them live at 85. We'll talk about that a little bit later. But I'm remembering now, and that was the final band, actually. Omar Hakeem on drums, great. Powell Hall, two blocks from here. Beautiful. Crazy.

They had crazy lights and stuff, you know, brought. It was a rock show. Yeah. But they really were a band. I mean, the thing that held, held the band together. The only constant was Joe and Wayne, right?

Through that whole period. I mean, we associate, especially what we're about to listen to with heavy weather as am I allowed to say it, almost a Jocko record, right? Jocko kind of takes over the band for a couple years here. Right, but that's a huge personality. I mean, listen, Joe and Wayne are

giants. There's no doubt about it. I mean, they let him. He wasn't a hostile takeover. But he's 25 years old. Yeah. He's bringing some energy that I think is, you know, how it is when you get to your 40s, like, whoa, This kid is like on fire. It seems like a bolt of light and energy. Let him cook, right?

Weather Report had never had a hit, though, Peter. We've skipped over some albums. After six-hour albums, they've never had a hit. And then when Jocko came fully on board with heavy weather, the band recorded this album in a matter of weeks, and the result was one of the best-selling jazz albums of all time. It went on to become a crossover hit reaching, get this, number 30 on the Billboard 200.

That's not the Billboard Jazz 200. No, that's the album. That is the Hot 100. the, well, I don't know. It's the two, it's the albums. Hot 200. No, cold, is it the mild 200? It's the Billboard 200.

The Tepid 200. All right, the charts people are really pissed off now. But it reached number 30, which is insane. Specifically, this first track. And like number 35 or something on R&B. I don't know why it was lower. But, I mean, the fact that it made both those charts. It's insane.

But, yeah, the Billboard 200 is. So the first track is the hit of the album. It's one of the biggest jazz crossover hits ever. Legend has it, according to, and everybody with Jaco, and according to a few other sources, that there was recorded a single take, one take. Yeah.

And it's Birdland. And apparently that wasn't true, but it was close to one. Well, I don't know. I've heard both ways, but. I set it up all nice and then you knocked it down. I'm sorry, sorry. It was possibly recorded. It was a minimum of one take.

We know that. No less than. It's Birdland. That's Joe. I always thought that was Jocko when I was a little cat. I was like, man, how was he doing that? And then the next one. Let me shut up.

So sick. Harmonics. Yeah, that's harmonics on the bass. Yeah. On a fretless. Which is crazy. Yeah. I mean, he was the Stanley Jordan of the bass.

Man, I messed up that baseline and stage band. Every high school jazz band in the 80s and 90s played this song. Alex Ocuna. Yeah. Interesting story about him by this. Joe Zavinal, the master of the suspended fourth, resolving. Boom, boom, boom.

Boobo and then bad I used this too close That's the four That's the third And zabinal with the sound Older or something I always thought A little bit of BGs or something

I don't know There comes a little later I don't know maybe Hear that? Early sampler Okay whenever you're ready I have a hot take on this Go for it

Are we ready for this? We're ready I think this is one of the weakest songs On the album Hot take indeed Scorching hot And I mean I really love The playing on this

And I mean, there's so much cool stuff And I played it in middle school jazz band Badly, you know And then when Manhattan Transfer came back With the, you know, in 1980 or 70 Late 70s, that was huge That was, I mean, because of my age I didn't remember this record, but by that time I started to hear it

And stuff, Quincy At the, you know, the night, early 80s I feel like this song is just a bunch of amps Played so well in grooving But like, what's the melody to Birdlands? This? No, what about? This is the melody.

There's like four different melodies, each section. This is the weakest of all the melodies. You think this is the weakest of all the ball. I mean, it's fine. It's no mercy, mercy me. That's all I'm saying. Which was a bigger hit also. Mercy, mercy, mercy, mercy.

Mercy, mercy. Mercy, mercy. Mercy. Mercy, mercy. Mercy. Mercy, mercy. Mercy me. It's 11 p.m. You got me contracted here all day long. It's a full eclipse out here. I, okay. Did I get too hot for you too early?

No, restate your hot take because I want to make sure that I get all these points. I think this is the weakest composition on this album. I understand why it was the biggest. No, Jocco is incredible. Wayne is overrated? Is that what you're saying? Wayne just doesn't play a lot on this record.

Like this is not a, I mean, what he plays is great. There's a couple really cool solos, but this is not a big Wayne record. No, actually, a lot of the weather. This is not on the Apex Mountain of Wayne Shortish solo. I think a lot of the Weather Report records are not like Wayne Show. No, but he's got some moments. He's got some moments.

But you're right. Black market. I kind of agree with you. I feel like Birdland is, I mean, for lack of a better phrase, like it can't get out of its own way in a sense. And it's become so ubiquitous for musicians learning how to play this music that it's almost like it's hard to separate the middle school, high school jazz band versions. Especially if like I didn't hear this. The first time I heard it was my high school jazz band. person, right? And then they were like, go check out the album.

Me too. But it feels just as a concept, maybe a little bit more dated than some of the other weather report things. And I think that's due to its own success. I think even more dated than anything on this record in a way. That's what I'm saying. But I think it's because it was so popular,

right? It's there's so many, it became kind of like its own genre, Birdland. People did so many different ripoffs of it. It's hard to not associate those watered down versions of this. with Birdland. So I see what you're saying. The connotations I have the same kind of thing. I don't

need to listen to Birdland a lot. Yeah. Anymore. And I always think too, like a great composition means not just the performance. And the performance is stunning. Especially Jaco. It's awesome. Jocco is... Jocco on here. Alex Acuna. But I mean, Zavinal sounds that's probably the Arp 26-Hen. Right.

But that Oberheim, you know. But it's not... I always feel like a great composition you can take to other great music. musicians. Yeah. And they can really sink their teeth into it.

And this is like, you don't really want to hear anybody else. Well, although Manhattan Transfer did. But to be honest, Peter, I mean, your take holds up with the fact that you don't hear

a lot of people covering this anymore. Right. It was something that was covered a lot in the 80s by people. Yeah. But you don't hear a lot of people doing covers of Birdland like in small group settings

when you totally could. Yeah. You totally could. But I've never thought, I'm not going to cover it. I don't think it's on even the top five Zavinal compositions. I agree with that.

So, I agree with that. Yeah. And I just think it's detached from this record Now having said that If this wasn't the first song on here Would this record have been one of the One of the first and only platinum jazz records

If you consider this jazz which I do That's gonna be another little thing Because you love to get into the genres But I mean this is like If this song wasn't on this record And the rest of the album which I think is stronger I don't think this album is any bigger than any other Weather Report record

Interesting You know I think this is such an accessible thing I know I'm saying that there's no melody There's four melodies. That's so, and when it goes, that's just simple and, yeah. And simple, and when almost anybody else plays it, it's corny, they pull it off because there's so much, like,

fusion virtuosity going on. It's got a little shoulder shake. It does. Like it makes you, you know what I mean? A little sassy. A little sassyness too, yeah, yeah. But it could cross over into corny. You talked about Alex Acunaeoomia playing the drums here.

He had been playing percussion in Weather Report previous to this while Chester Thompson was playing the drums. One day after rehearsal, Jocko said, let's play some more, and Alex had his brushes, playing on the table in the chair, and they're playing Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter stuff, and Jocko was surprised at. Alex knew all these tunes on the drum kit, apparently.

Nobody knew I played drums, Alex said. I respect that. I was hired as a percussionist. I'm going to play percussion. But then later, they all realized he's an amazing drummer at the kit, and he records on this album. Yeah, incredible.

It's kind of awesome. He's from Peru, isn't he? He's Peruvian, yeah. Peruvian, right, which is a cool thing because we don't come across that a lot. But I mean, he's a, he played on, he wasn't he playing with, maybe he wasn't by this point, but he played with Joni.

He played with everybody. Right after this, yeah. And it's Manolo Badrena on percussion. Right. Hearing an album is one thing, but trying to play this stuff is a whole other thing. But that's exactly what we do and teach at Open Studio. World class musicians, real instructors, all in one place.

Go to Open StudioJazz.com. That's openstudiojazz.com. Start your free trial today. Back to the show. Your pronunciation leaves something to be desired. But we'll talk about that another time. So not a fan of Birdland, but I got to imagine you are a fan of the second track, which is... Because another Zavinal...

I love this. A beautiful song called A Remark You Made. Yeah. Ah, ethereal. Woo! Zominal, a master of the keyboards. Truly like an innovator, maybe doesn't get enough credit for pushing synthesizers forward. The Wurlitzer.

Maybe the all-time master of the Wurley. Oh, this. A little walkdown in the bass. That's some Joe right there. But I mean, the way Wayne phrases... And the piano sound, I think, fits so good on this track. And most of them, except for Berlin. If you think about it, too, that fretless bass is such an original sound at this time.

Man, not many people are doing it. Oh. Oh. I forgot. I think that synthesized, I think that's one of the best played synthesizer melodies. He's phrased. He's phrasing it like Wayne. They're not like Wayne Shorty, but with the same kind of, it's stunning.

Especially those instruments were hard to control back then. Listen, I love the pads on this one. Yes. That are happening here. I mean, yeah, Zonal. Orchestrator. knows how to mix the piano in. Man, we didn't deserve Wayne Shorter.

It's just the greatest ever, the greatest melody maker. And I think, you know, for, like, Wayne and Joe, they obviously bonded musically. They came up, like, on the same, I mean, they were guys from the 50s. Like, you know, Zavinal came. Zavent was in the U.S., I believe, if not in the late 50s, no later than 1960. And that was like Wayne cutting his teeth. And then, you know, with Art Blakey, like, they came up. They played together for a while in one of the,

big bands. Okay. I forget which one. Put in the comments, where did Joe and Wayne play together? I'm spacing now, but they played together

when they were kids, basically. Wow. Wow. When they were young. Yeah, and then I think, you know, Zavino's Long Association,

which is basically all the 30s, 60s with Cannibal Adderly and Matt Adderly, you know, and wrote for them and played in the band. I mean, like, for a big part of that. And then, of course, Wayne in the 60s developed,

our Blakey, done to the, maybe considered the best, Miles Davis Quintet, and then in a silent way, which I don't know if Wayne was on there, but I know that, I think Salvinal wrote in a silent way, actually. Wayne's on there. Yeah, Wayne's on.

And Bitches Brew. They're both on Bitches Brew. Okay. So, and then that leads to this. So, like, they had this kind of sympathetico in terms of how they approached things. And as you said earlier, you know, being able to, you know,

the good fortune of Jocco coming along, but then recognizing that a generation behind and then this idea of folk music of the future. Right. You know, Which is how they described this. Yes. How Zalvinol described this.

And he talked about that when I got a chance in the early 90s to hang out with him a little bit and some great times in an airport on a layover when we were all stuck there. Pete and Joe, just shoot and shit. It was a bunch of young musicians in Joe and him. But I saw him. We were on the same sort of tour at the festival, so we'd see him every couple of days. Super nice guy. But he talked about this folk music of the future.

He had a band called this Zavental Syndicate. It wasn't the next way. weather report, because Wayne wasn't part of it, but it was, you know, Paco Siri was playing drums, and, like, he had a very interesting view. I never heard him talking about fusion a lot, but he was definitely the master of, like, you know, kind of early, what became world music and a little bit of a dirty word. Well, apparently these guys didn't like the word fusion. They didn't want jazz fusion to be part of their. Did it cause some confusion for them? It did. Okay. So a remark you made gorgeous. Yeah. Gorgeous track. And it's followed up by, I think, the next,

track is this is the musician's musician track. This is the one that every bass player geeks out over, and every drummer geeks out over, which is interesting because this is not Alex Ocunia on the drums. No. This is Giacopestorius on the bass and the drums. You know how hard the idea is to do that at the same time? This is Teen Town.

The Jocko composition, by the way. Those pads are sick, too. Wayne on the counter melody. Oh. Ooh. Is that a timpani? Instead of a bass drum? I don't think so.

I think it's a floor. That's a big ass for a low. Maybe it's a timpity. I don't know. And this backwards high hat pattern. It's the greatest sound, Sam. Zavloca's phrase that synthesizer. That's some badass right there.

Can't can't put the only thinking. Desert Island? Jimmy Henrickson. So much space. I forgot about that for Jocco. As much as he's playing, when he's not playing, he ain't playing shit.

Well, that's what makes those, like, those things. It sounds like, what sounds like is the bass drum. Such a stupid ending that works so well. I know. Why does that work so well? That's another thing that if anybody else plays it like that,

stop it. Don't do it. Don't do it, but it's works out. I would never change it. It's so great. That bass drum sounds like those big, not the ones in the Marchman, the ones in the symphony orchestra.

You know, with the felt. It might be something weird. Like a big furry. I know we've got weather report nerds who know what that kid was made up. That's the bandolino, bandaro. Cinco de patico. Yeah, but that's a,

I mean, that's a flag in the ground right there for Jocker. That's like, yo, I wrote this. I'm playing bass. I'm playing drums. It's all bass and drums. Yeah. Aside from some textures from Wayne and Joe. Yeah, and they're all in the background.

doing the perfect stuff. Yeah, no, but it's just such a banger, man. Yeah, and it's, you know, the third song on the A side. I think, too, on the first side, what's interesting about this, too, like, doom ticagoo, like, like he takes, it's almost like a swing beat turn backwards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Can you play just the beginning of, if you don't mind? Oh, first of all, you know, I was like to pause it with, this is a great drum intro. This is a theme for the show. And off kilter drum intro. Off, man, he's just like,

But it feels amazing. It's almost like Stevie Wonder playing like some fast fusion on drums, you know? Oh, and then, girl. I mean, I guess this is the kick drum. Man, maybe so. Just a weirdly tube. Well, we'll talk about it.

And that beat it, is that like, like, Joe was so good at getting like the brass sounds on the keys on, which was not easy at that time. It wasn't like a few years later when the DX7 came. You could make trampats. But Joe had it dialed in. Yeah. But he gave it that brass.

or like that like that, you know, I think that that, it's so diabolical, right? And then, like, and his command of that. But we forget, like, how influential, I mean, yes, all the incredible left hand, you know, just incredible technique the Jocko had, everything. But with that fretless, with those,

with that, not vibrato, what do you come, but do it do, like the slides are vibrato, that you can do. So if the frets are there, you can't really do that. Or it's a different kind of sound. But the fretless open, like he wasn't the first one to play fretless, but I mean, it was like pre-jaco on electric bass and after.

No one plays the most influential, maybe of all time on electric bass. Yeah, not the first, but maybe the best. Certainly for soloing. I mean, you're talking about James Jamerson, obviously huge influence on electric bass players. There's something so unique about the sound of a fretless bass. Yeah. Like it sounds like a bass, but there's like,

but what is, what's so different about the tone? And it's got that sort of like, we know, the thing that naturally happens because there's no fret. And you can play it out of two. We should have Scott and Ian Tell us about it. It'd be great to... I'm sure they've already made tons of videos about it.

Scott's bass lesson. Shout out Scott and Ian. So now, Jocko is going to switch to steel drums to play Harlequin. Oh, he plays steel. I never knew that. Another great... Oh, another great off-kilter intro right here.

Okay, so I was so confused over this. Okay, at the beginning, do you know... Count it off with the intro, how it feels to you. Okay, ready? Just count. Two, three. Wrong. Wrong.

One, two, three, four. And a half. One, two, three, three. Yeah, that's what I thought. What the what? Yeah, so do it again. And I mean, this is the great thing. You don't have to know this, but it's kind of fun.

And don't feel bad. I didn't know this for years. But you play again. One, four, one, two, three. No, no, no, starting again. One. We're going to get it. We're going to get.

Ready? And two. And three. And four. And one and two and three and four and one and two and three. And then and then, but you know what's so slick about it is Joe just switches over during the big drum thing. So you don't notice, you think that that's constant. Yeah.

He slides back that corn from off the beat to all the beat. It's kind of seamless, but it gives you a little bit of. It is a javelinel. Javelin. Zavental. More great phrasing, melodic, synthesized. I think Jocko slipped the mixing engineer a couple hundred dollars per track to push him up in the mix.

Yeah, we'll talk about the production at the end. I've got some slight quibbles. This is a little secrets headhuntersy a little bit, you know? It definitely is. Oh, damn. B'am bram there. Oh. That's the jazz guys messing it up with too much stuff, right?

I love it. Love it. Ah. A lot of overdubbing on this record, obviously. I'm assuming. Man, Joe Zavinal, big influence on Joe Sample. You hear it, and it's like his phrasing, his lines, harmonic approach. It just hit me.

I never thought about it. Oh, that's a badass. line you just play that's what I think is like the other vocal I think that's a synthesizer though yeah I think it is too one I'm so stupid

that's great Alex Ocunian TV film I just realized I had my notes here features steel drums played by Jocko I don't hear any steel drums I don't know why that's in there

people are saying there are steel drums in there but I don't think that's the case that must be a mystery Maybe that was the... Maybe that's what he was playing on. No, that wouldn't be still going to go. The next track is interesting... This is a fun little aside.

Shout out to St. Thomas. We love the island. Hey, this is written by Virginia and Acuna recorded live at the Montreau Jazz Festival. By Delena. Jazz Festival, July 8th... Maltrow. Montreau.

July 8th, 19776. Okay, can we talk about this track before we play it? Okay, go. We'll talk. Well, it's very... It's all very different from everything else. It's weird, right? And isn't this at the beginning of the...

Side beam? Yeah, the second... Isn't it? I think so. Yeah. It was... I remember being a little bit. I was like, I was...

You know what? Can I be fully honest? Go. I just skipped this track. Rumba Mama. On LP. It's great, but... Padrena?

You got in my head now. Padrina? Yeah. It's... Badelena. Bedelena. I can't believe you used to skip this. I was a stupid nerd kid,

because I was just, like, I was, like, obsessed with piano. Didn't have piano. Yeah. No, it just, yeah, it was just like. Not much for passion or soul. I get it. Yeah, I mean, I was 12 years old or 30, I don't know. I was killing.

Damn. And I remember when they, I mean, not this band, but when they used to have the drum tune interludes with Weatherport, it was stunning. Come on. And this became very influential for bands in this time all the way up through the mid-80s to do these like, especially at live festivals.

I remember doing this with Diane Reeves a bunch of times with the drummer, Monyongo Jackson, the percussionist. Yeah. Pretty great, Pete. Pretty great. No, of course it's great. It's just, but it's weird placement on this record. And like to me, this kind of, you know, it's like a live track, it's not, I don't know.

It's two minutes. What are you going to do? The next track is the first thing. It's the old. The only track that was composed by Wayne Shorter, this is called Palladium. Here's a little shades of secrets. You think? Yeah.

No. Herbie? When's the secrets pod? Did we do it? We didn't. Oh, God. Where are we? This is an unusual Wayne tune, but it's got some Wayneisms in it.

Woo! Yeah, like that. I think this is killing too. It is cool. I just want to go back to your hot take. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Birdland seems very

not as heavy as the other stuff on heavy weather. Or as you said, before the mics came on when we were outside baby. Don't you dare. Burlain sucks. Don't you dare.

Man, wait. The logic of his compositions just off the charts, man. Like the way that the melody's resolved, the architecture of it? Oh, it's so satisfying, man. Is that road? That's Rhodes, isn't it? Yeah.

It's a real crispy roads. It's a little over-driven, just a little bit? Yeah, a little bit. Ah. I love Jocko's playing on this. It's so great. Relentless, man. Oh.

And busy, but great. The sound when he goes up to this. That brass and keys. I think, oh. Wayne Short or just, like, there's something about his compositions, just so in command of the elements of music, you know. It's very much Thelonious Monkish, you know.

Where you're like, oh, I could have come up with that. No, you couldn't have. Okay. Speak, speak, man. Speak. I'm going to do my quibble bit now. Okay, let's do it. Only because the synths on Palladium are so fucking amazing.

Yeah. It sounds so good. Joe has them so dialed in. the production on this album bothers me a little bit in that it feels kind of thin in that it feels very top heavy there's a lot of high end on things yeah even the bass

even the bass and I wonder what it would sound like if it was recorded in Stevie's classic run with those guys or if it was recorded with the headhunters dryness and warmth right it's just maybe a little more consistency like you mentioned secrets like the synths

I don't think sound quite is good. Herbie doesn't have as dialed in as what Joe's able to do. Joe has so many textures on the sense. There's just like an amazing array of textures. But I feel a little cheated. Like I wish it was a little warmer. And that's just a personal preference.

I'm sure some people love the way this sounds. I honestly think the only track it really works well on is Teen Town. I think for whatever reason that that high-end reverb that they have on Teen Town, that's on almost every track, actually. But it really works in that scenario because it's kind of a sparse arrangement, you know, a sparse orchestration.

Yep. But on like palladium, on a remark you made, on Harlequin, on The Juggler, like, I want to hear the full richness

of those analog synthesizers that Joe's playing. And I sometimes don't feel... And the bass, and the bass too. Right. Sometimes I don't feel like I get it. That's all.

Yeah, I mean, I almost feel like Wayne sound is the most consistent. Like you're getting... One of my quibble beds since we're throwing these around is just all. always just more Wayne.

You know what I mean? And this, but I mean, that's also not what this record's about. I get it. You know, there's plenty of other Wayne. But I would agree on the sound.

But what he does is so beautiful. Oh, it's so great. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think, I would agree on the sound.

I do think that there are times. I actually think a remark you made, I'm pretty much cool with almost all the sound. Like, the single line since stuff is stunning that Zavinal does. And, I mean, I'm sure if you listen to it,

yeah. The pads are stunning. Yeah. It's so pristine. And I mean, Birdland is a kick-ass mix. I mean, that's part of the success of it, you know. I guess so.

But I don't, I don't know, I don't know if I agree, honestly. I just feel it's uneven. I think palladium is one, I mean, like, when it goes down to that base, like, to that, that big bass sense. Oh, man, it's like, it's off, it's not even off mix. It's just, it's like disturbing to the architecture of the tune. It doesn't use what's so good about that sound, in my opinion. I'm sure, again, I don't, I don't, I don't, I just feel like, I don't know.

Yeah, this is not a, I couldn't say this is an incredible. sounding record. Yeah. Yeah. But I do at times, I don't know, to me, it doesn't ruin the experience. No, not all. No, I mean, we're talking about a very, like, this is a, it's a B plus. It's not like.

There are times, though, like, what we just heard that it does kind of like get in the way. You just wish you had a little bit more, more like, umf to those sounds, you know, because I know they're there. If we were in the room with it, the umph would be like so with you, want those big analog synths can make those huge sounds. Maybe they just not have recorded them great yet. No, 77, buddy. Oh, that's true.

You know, they're doing it. Robert Marguliffe and Cecil knew how to record. Asia's the same year. They knew how to record them. 75 times. Yeah. Well, I think, too, one thing that I do is think is consistently subpar as the piano sound. And there's actually, like, in going back and preparing for this, I had forgotten how much, I mean, like, the synth stuff and the roads and worldly stuff that Joe does is so amazing.

He plays a fair amount of piano on this record. Yeah, yeah. And none of that is a great sound. The acoustic piano is not great. is not the air it's not that kind of thing though but he sounds he's playing such great piano too yeah yeah yeah uh next up is the juggler this is another zone this is this is always reminded me of bartok when i first heard it way in on soprano such a cool idea this is an epic vibe right yeah it's in a high-level shaker work yeah man that melody like how

that's gutsy to play after waynshaw on soprano's playing a melody He pulls it off. The percussion's recorded really well this record. Music of the future. This has the feel of being through-composed. Well, is it? Yes.

I mean, that's kind of their thing, right? A remark you made is like, if you can go search and find the lead sheet for that, it's wild, man. That's, I think, Weather Report's strongest gear. Yeah. Is like these semi- or truly through-composed pieces. Or they come off that way.

Or they come off that way. But it's really, they're very special. And it's got to be hard to put together. Like, these are so intricate. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's such a, it takes you on a journey. It's got an epic feel to it.

It's very cinematic. It's very atmospheric. Cinematic is great. I mean, this could have been like the greatest, like, gaming music ever. Could you imagine going to different parts of it on a quest, right? Like, it's a story. It really is. I mean, it feels like it could be like this song could be on the Blade Runner soundtrack.

Yeah. Yeah, this could be great movie. I mean, high-level movie. Yeah, for sure. I think... I got one for you. I got a question for you. Okay, what do you got?

Which has aged better? Wayne's soprano sound on the juggler. Or Birdland as a composition. Birdland. No, of course. Of course it's Wayne's soprano. So that's my thing with this record. Like, this is, I have to say this,

this is a little bit of an uneven record. Because the highs are so high. I mean, for... I'm not even to say for fusion. for 70s, to me, this is 70s jazz in the same way that Headhunters, the same way that's seen as, same with the Mwandishi, you know, like this.

But I don't agree that it's an uneven record. I do agree that Birdland is the weakest track, but the rest of the album, every track is pretty amazing. Yeah, I think. But I just think they, but we're talking about some sound issues. We're talking about, you know, just a little bit.

But that's a preference. I'm sure people love the way, some people love the way this sounds. Right, but because there's such high, I mean, some of the greatest synthesizer, at least single line synthesizer, I would say on any record ever. Polyfani synthesizers.

And probably, yeah, of course. But I'm saying specifically like the phrase, like literally best in class. Yeah. Best in class soprano sax playing. 100%. Drumming this often, by the way. So that's uneven.

Alex Ocunia's playing is underrated. Absolutely. Bro is thrashing. And we're bearing the lead. A gentleman by the name of Jacko Pestorius. It's crushing out of his best playing. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

And composition. So that's what I'm saying. Like the highs are so high. So to me the lows. Right. That's what I mean. It's fine. It's just, it wouldn't be as much.

I see your shoulder twitching. I see my, my, my, uh, my, uh, georts. Slipping on my shorts. Jorz. Uh, we joke because we love. Um, okay, the record goes out. Uh, I always thought the name of this, Sumi.

I, uh, got this wrong. It was Havana. It's not. It's Havana. Havana. No, no, no, no. No, maybe. It's Havona.

Yeah. It's a Jacopistorius composition. A lot of people like to play this song. Yeah. Just a badass Who Epic Oh, here's another one

Slide right into the time Woo! So killing Immediately hitting at the double time Oh, when he goes up to this Major 7th Joe right here Oh

Man the drums are way down in the mix The bass player tune Simple, beautiful melody All the actions on the bass But bass players love this album Good reason This and the And the Jocki really loves this record

I'm going to tell you my Christian story about this The Jaco Pastoria self-titled Yeah Base players love it We should do that at a second point That's a great album Was that before this? Oh

Man this is a kill of soul air This is another gear for Zobloa What a player man Jacked a piano sound Sounds like it was recorded Through a telephone Yeah All those slides

It's weird. Yeah. Piano mic. Somebody called. This is an actual microphone that our engineer Sam sometimes likes to use. That's what the piano sounds like out of here. A little bit, yeah. Killer bass sound of.

Oh, my God. How many gigs you've been on with a bass player? So I'm trying to play like this. Hey. Come on. Joe's pads. Damn The

Dave Nice Yeah Yeah The lack of backbeat on this But then Oh So

Pattern Yeah This is a great It's a great ending To the record And it's So I remember playing Did you

Have you played in these tunes Before I mean Of course I mean except at Birdland No no Yeah Yeah

I have I did a tour in like 2000-ish maybe even 99 I subbed for Jeff Keiser on a little tour with the Christian McBride band CMB at the time

you remember when it was Tarion Gully Rom Blake great band one of the best quartets I came in and they were playing a lot of this music so we definitely played a remark you made

Harlequin palladium the juggler and Havana we did not play Birdland by the way or Teen Town which is crazy because of McBride I mean we might

I don't ever remember playing that. I mean, I know McBride knows all that stuff. But McBride has these awesome charts, not that real new book, real book crap that's 94% accurate. He had like, you talk about intricate charts, multiple pages for all these. And that's where I learned most of this music.

And it was so fun. The only problem was, at least the gig, I remember in particular, we were playing at the jazz showcase in Chicago, right up 55 from here, 300 miles north. Joe Siegel, shout out, R-I-P, Joe Segal, used to be called the Joe Segal's Jazz Showcase.

Joe Segal was an amazing jazz club impresar. I just realized this thing is shedding little... Well, that's why it's taped up a bunch, Peter. That's why it's taped up. Production, we have a problem. He's holding up a phone. Thank you.

Shout out to our audio listeners. But we played Joe Segal famously hated fusion music. Oh, excellent. So it was uncomfortable. And Joe used to always be at the front of the club when you'd come in. Like he would grieve people and come in

and when we came in, he made it, like, the whole run we were there for those like five or six days. I think we did like six. This was back when you used to do like full runs. We were playing all this music and some other stuff. Christian had, I mean, he was playing mostly electric. I mean, it was jazz, but it was whatever. It was this kind of stuff.

He had headphones on, big headphones the entire time we were playing. And he claimed he was a big Cubs fan. You know, in Chicago. Because he loves AAA baseball. Ooh, he got scared,

he got scared. Anyway, just kidding. I don't have my cardinal saddle. We can't say that anymore. We can't say that anymore. No, but he would listen to the Cubs games.

I was like, wow, they're playing always while we were playing. But he wouldn't listen to what we were playing. But I thought we were killing the crowd, like, did Christian kill them? Yeah. Hey, Peter. Yeah.

Remember when we got that Herbie Hancock flexi disc in the mail? I am still thinking about that. That flexi days, oh, that was such a flex, yeah. It's from a 1974 copy of Downbeat magazine where Herbie

plays a bit of actual proof. Herbie Hancock? Yes. Before it was even actual proof. Well, you know, we recorded the whole thing and we're sharing it for free with all of our newsletter

subscribers. Sign up at, you'll hear it. Don't tell them where. No, I got to tell them where. It's a private newsletter. Sign up it. You'll hear it.com slash newsletter to hear it for yourself.

You'll hear it. com slash newsletter and you're going to get a newsletter from us every single week. Awesome. Categories, Peter. Categories. All right, let's do this. What is your Apex Moment slash Desert Island track?

What do you think? Desert, I mean, I think it's a remark you made. Good call. For the track. And, I mean, for the moment, there was, I made a note somewhere here. Oh, on Harlequin, there's a, can we maybe play? Would that be hard if you got to around 130, 140 on that? That's going to be impossible.

There's all these little cool lines, but there's one in particular that Zavinal plays. Just a bunch of cool little easy piano stuff for him. Little riffs. Yeah. Each one is perfect. Let me show you what. That's great. This one.

That one, man. To me, that's just like, you know, it's such a cool bluesy, like. just like very overt. And then when he plays after it, like it's kind of the peak of these cool little counter melodies that he's playing in between his own sense sounds and the bass stuff.

But there's, I mean, there's a bunch of apex moments on this record. My Desert Island track is Teen Town. Birdland. And is Teen Town. And my apex moment is Jocko's entrance on the bass on Teen Town. Oh, yeah. Takes a while when we come out. I will never forget the first time I heard that.

I was like, I didn't know you could do. that. I had no idea a bass player could do that. I didn't know you were allowed to do that in music. Right. I didn't know. It was so, so mind-blowing. That's awesome. And I still love that. Quibble bits. We already talked about, you know, my quibble is with a little bit of the production. I wish there was a little bit less of that reverb on it, except on Teen Town, which I think it really works on. But I think most everything else... Because the bass is dialed in, especially on that. And it's also very sparse. It's just, it's the drums and it's the bass, and there's some, like some textures from Wayne and Joe. But acutermans, what do you got?

I can't do my quibble a bit? Oh, sorry, what was your cool bit? Birdland. Of course. Okay. Acuchamans, I have a four. I'm not a fan. You know what?

I have this record at home, and I've apologized. I could I put my hands on it? You wear your hat. Exactly. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go as low as four, but it's just fine. Seven, six. It's fine. Well, wait, which is it, Peter?

Well, it's not four. I mean, four is like, we've never gone as low as four, have we? For Acuchamol's? I've never. I mean, it's okay. It's a hat that's got a, A thunderstorm coming out of it It is just like my hat

It is just like your hat Yeah and it's over a city I don't know Yeah It's one of those ones This is been Did we talk oh yeah we talked about This is a big

This is one of like the top five Selling jazz records of all time It is I believe it's kind of blue Is first actually Now this is if you're This is not counting like Nora Jones And um Kenny G

Shout out Sure sure sure Sure sure But kind of blue Let me see if I get this right What would number two be I don't know Head Hunters

I think think so either two or three so yeah so top five is headhunters time out which i believe is number five but this is number four so there's one else that we're we're not thinking of as far as over a million you know like you know over a million that that you'd think there'd be more of that but there's not a lot of that but yeah headhunters for sure um is this weather reports best album that's our new category no no no it's very good though but it's it's no it's no it's clearly not yeah i think mysterious travelers probably. That's my favorite. Which we should do. We should do again.

Snobometer. Snobometer. I mean, this is two, right? No. This is five. No. Okay, the snobometer is broken. I know other people have said that, but it's hello, snobometer.

How is it too? I mean, I know Birdland was a popular song. Okay, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. It's just we've gotten, here's the thing, Peter, the show has changed. We're talking about We're talking about bad and thriller in the mix.

You know what I mean? Like this compared to thriller, this is an eight compared to thriller. But that's not what we're comparing it to. Do I have to remind you about the snobometer? Number one, Aunt Linda. Number 10, Ethan Iverson. Right. Number five, Alan Iverson.

Okay? So there you go. Okay. I'll concede. What do you have up next? I have Herbie Hancock's 1970s masterpiece secrets. That was a year before. I know, but we kept talking about it, and I would love to hear it now.

I like doing stuff from this year. I'm going to go Herbie Hancock, VSOP, the original one. Okay, good one. That's a great record. I love that record. Double album. But Asia came out the same year, too. Asia's pretty good.

Should we do an Asia show? We should do a re-Asia? Nightwalker. Night walker. Nightfly? You heard it here, folks. Peter wants to do the nightfly. Don't say it.

Peter wants to do the night fly. This is awesome, man. Do we have any other housekeeping to do? That's all we got. Okay. Well, until next time. You'll hear it.