You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Kind of Blue – Miles Davis

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Miles Davis's Kind of Blue is one of the greatest albums of all time - possibly THE greatest. But it's not perfect. In this special episode of You'll Hear It, jazz pianists Peter Martin and Adam Maness break down this classic record, track-by-track, to uncover why it has become so legendary. They dig into what's really going on in the music during this album's best moments: Miles's trumpet solo on "So What", Wynton Kelly's piano solo on "Freddie Freeloader", John Coltrane's entrance on "Blue in Green".Plus - we learn more about what Miles was doing in his early years, his break from bebop, what he thought of Bill Evans's approach, and the production and engineering techniques that give Kind of Blue its unique sound.Miles Davis was born just outside of St. Louis 100 years ago this week. To celebrate his centennial birthday, Adam and Peter filmed this episode in front of a live audience at The Sheldon Concert Hall in St. Louis, MO.Chapters Legend: 🎧 Listening to a track     🎹 Music theory breakdown     🎵 Live studio jam-------------------------------Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://openstudiojazz.com------------------------------Related YHI VideosSteamin', Relaxin', Workin', Cookin': https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cookin-relaxin-workin-and-steamin-miles-davis-quintet/id1342674932?i=1000762361399Someday My Prince Will Come: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/someday-my-prince-will-come-miles-davis/id1342674932?i=1000724354435Birth Of the Cool: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/miles-first-masterpiece-birth-of-the-cool/id1342674932?i=1000710841989My Funny Valentine: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/miles-greatest-album-youre-welcome/id1342674932?i=1000700565428-------------------------------About You'll Hear It:In this popular music series, Adam and Peter break down the greatest albums of all time. Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Joni Mitchell, D'Angelo: Jazz is the foundation of the most GENIUS music in recent history. These seasoned jazz pianists bring their deep musical knowledge to every joyful episode to help you hear the hidden qualities that make music AMAZING. You'll never hear music the same way again.-------------------------------Sign up for the You'll Read It newsletter for little known stories about the artists you love: https://youllhearit.com/newsletter -------------------------------00:00 Kind of Blue - Miles Davis5:45 🎧 Bebop and Miles Davis's Early Years10:56 Bill Evans and Miles Davis11:48 🎧 "So What"20:49 KOB Is NOT A Perfect Album?26:59 Miles On Bill Evans's Approach32:13 🎧 "Freddie Freeloader"41:31 🎧 "Blue In Green"44:38 How They Made That KoB Sound50:02 🎧 "All Blues"58:20 🎧 "Flamenco Sketches"1:02:44 Is It Perfect?1:04:56 🎧 Outakes1:06:38 Categories: Desert Island Tracks & Apex Moments1:11:20 How Snobby Is This Album?1:16:21 What To Listen To Next1:19:13 🎵 "So What" - Open Studio

I'm Adam Anas And I'm Peter Martin And you're listening to the You'll Hear at Podcast Live exploring music Exploring music Brought to you today by Open Studio Go to Open Studio Jazz.com for

Oh, your jazz lesson needs And brought to you live at the beautiful Sheldon Concert Hall in lovely St. Louis, Missouri Give it up, everybody, for the Sheldon. Yes. Well, Adam, it's a big day. This is a big line.

It's a big night, actually. I was going to say, it's not a big day. This is a big evening, Peter, because we rarely do a live show. We've never done a live show in our hometown of St. Louis, Missouri. We've recorded all 1,200 of these episodes about a quarter mile down Washington, just east of here, a couple blocks away in our beautiful studios. But you and I play...

Always by the light of day. We're like the anti-vampires. I know. Tonight, we're going in there. I really might fall asleep by the end of this. I mean, we're coming up on my bedtime already. But not only is it a big night for us to be live, but it's a big night because this is,

I don't know if you know this, but as this is being broadcast, it's the night before Miles Davis's 100th birthday. Yes, the centennial. That's amazing. Miles Davis, everybody. Miles Davis, of course, from just a few miles, was born in Alton, Illinois,

which is what four or five miles from where we sit and grew up in East St. Louis and his most closely associated at East St. Louis, went to Lincoln High School there, continuing on the tradition of the amazing St. Louis trumpet players and really established it in a lot of ways. I mean, of course, we talk about Clark Terry. We talk about many before and after,

but I mean, there's nobody really in the jazz trumpet world bigger, certainly not from St. Louis. And I would say just period. I mean, Lewis Armstrong. Like that's the godfather, right? But then next, I mean, Clifford Brown, Fats Navar, but I mean, Miles Davis, the cultural, the musical, the brass impact, unparallel.

But not just as a trumpeter, though, Peter. Miles was one of the great artists of the 20th century of any medium, not just music, not just jazz, but art in general. One of the most influential, groundbreaking artist who literally invented about four or five genres by just being unsettled, just always shifting, never being satisfied with where he was. We're going to be listening today to perhaps not just his most famous album, but perhaps the most famous album. but perhaps the most famous album in the entire jazz canon is 1959 masterpiece kind of blue. And this album, I think, marks the start of Miles saying, I'm not going to do what we've been doing.

I'm going to go my own way and pulling in influences and people that other of the artists of his contemporaries weren't doing. And just having the courage and the confidence to be himself and not rest on his laurels, not always just go back to what got him there, but realizing that when you're making great art,

you have to reach deep all the time. And this album, I think, is the first time Miles really reaches down deep and he makes something that is a standalone single achievement. And it is one of my favorite albums. I don't know about you, but I could listen to this once a month for the rest of my life and be happy.

I totally agree. It's an amazing record. It's kind of a rare intersection between huge sales, millions of kinds of, copies, platinum, however many times over, great commercial appeal, the intersection of great commercial appeal and extreme artistic virtuosity on a number of different levels that we're going to explore. And you did a great job of kind of outlining the pivot point that Miles, one of his several beautiful pivot points of his career that he was at in 1959 when this record

came out, as an artist, as a leader, as a writer, as a trumpeter, but also as a, as a as, you know, the beginning of this amazing network effect that he had that goes, the tentacles of which go all the way to today. So on this record along with Miles Davis are a couple of slouches by the name of John Coltrane. Ever heard of him? I've heard of them. I've heard of them. I've heard of them.

Cannonball Adderley. Yeah. Bill Evans. Yep. Winton Kelly. Yep. Yep. Paul Chambers.

Come on now. Jimmy Cobb. Yeah. These are, you know, Titans of the music, some of which already were beginning to, some of which weren't as known, but they would become. become more known later. But I think Miles' ability to put the right people together in the right room or the right recording studio with the right music was one of his most amazing.

And I mean, you hear that from the musicians. You talk about Herbie Hancock, Chick-Corps, a countless others that came up, you know, Joey D. Francesco, who played with him when he was 16 years old, would talk about his tastemaking abilities as a band leader. The greatest. Yeah. The greatest taste-based. Yeah. So what we're going to experience here on Kind of Blue is, you know, Miles Davis, the trumpeter, the conductor, the leader, the mid-level manager, maybe the micromanager.

We're going to delve into a little bit. Also the composer. The composer. These are all original songs. The co-composer. The co-composer, as we'll get into. Well, let's back it up, Peter. You know, if we're going to say that Miles is reaching deep and he's going for something new, let's talk about where he was coming from. So when Miles is a teenager, he moves to New York, and he starts to play with saxophonist, who's originally from Kansas City, Missouri, named Charlie Parker. And that music is called bebop. And that music is very ornate.

It has a lot of fast-moving chord progressions that really direct the improviser, go here now. Here's where we're going. This is how it is. There's very structured, almost a Baroque-type sensibility. It sounds like this. Charlie Parker, of course. I hear the Young Miles.

Miles, but it's like... It's still Miles. It's Dizzy Jr., right? But you can hear in the form of this, right, that you have these like... Yeah. Chord, chord, cord, right? And all of the chord, too, are these, like, functional chords, right? It's almost...

It's not quite paint by numbers, but it's like, you do this on this, and that goes to here. And it's a very logical structure system. It's actually great for learning how to improvise, because you have these boundaries, these rules in place that help you learn how to do it. And Miles continues this through the 50s. This is, if I were a bell from relaxing with the Miles Davis Quintet, we just covered this on an episode a couple weeks ago. And this is, you know, a Frank Lesser standard,

grand American songbook standard, but that kind of structure of those core changes is still there. I'll plan and tell you what it is later. Miles. The beginning of the Harbin. Chord. So you can still hear all of those dominant, chords, those diminished chords leading the soloists where they're going to go.

Now, just a year after that... Sorry, let me just ask, what would you call... That's not straight bebop in that stuff. No, we're kind of past the straight bebop stuff. I know you love names of genres, so what would you call that? Genres are one of my favorite things, Peter? Because you don't have to think. Right.

I notoriously hate genres because I don't think artists think like that as they're making the stuff. People put the labels on it later. It's great for marketers and for record stores and things, but in general, I don't think Miles are thinking about, I'm going to make a straight-ahead jazz album. He's just making his own music. Oh, he said it.

We'll play it and tell you about it later. Yes, exactly. So a year later, Miles has incredible broad range of taste in art. He starts listening to a lot of Ravel, a lot of Debussy, a lot of Rachmananov and Stravinsky. And a lot of Bill Evans.

And a lot of Bill Evans, who's a piano player who's not yet in his band, but when he makes this album, Milestones in 1958, the title track sounds like, this. Now, I mean, it just still sounds like jazz, right? It still sounds like, but that's all happening over just one chord.

It's just one chord that he's moving around. There's no like, we're moving all these places, right? It makes it a little bit more challenging for the improviser because there's not as much of a structure. And also, no jazz musicians had really gone, especially as famous as Miles, had really gone down that road up to this point. Another person who was really into this was a pianist named Bill Evans, and Miles really loved the way Bill Evans brought W.C. Ravel into his own playing. And when Miles and Dave, when Miles and Bill got together, they talked a lot about that kind of

stuff. They listened to a lot of music together. And Bill joined his band. They started making music that had more of that impressionistic sound into the band. And then, Bill left. Bill was getting famous and Bill left. But before Bill left, Miles had booked the session for Kind of Blue. And even though Miles had already hired Winton Kelly to play piano, he brought Bill back to make one more album, the third and final album they would make together. And that is Kind of Blue. And that starts like this.

Right to the D minor blues. A clusters, those little... W.C. clusters. I mean, Bill Evans and Miles, the way they... John Coltrane. Cannonball. beautiful language man. What's amazing is how all three

of the soloists are approaching this completely different. Yeah. They're playing over two chords each. There's just D minor for 16, E flat minor for eight, D minor for eight. Like just it's, but the variance between the three of them is

amazing. And I mean, it's it's one take. This is the first take and... This is the first take. The only take. No, no edits. Nothing. I mean, they just laid down Master for sure. never seen this music before either. And they've never seen the music before.

Yeah. That's right. Good ear, Pete. I've heard this record before. And now we're going to close out with an improvised, Revelle. And this is just two triads, G triad, and F triad.

With three horns. Alto. Trumpet, alto, back, ten or sec. And a nice piano solo along with it. Up a half step, same thing. Those clusters to make these melodies. What sounds like this in 1959?

Nothing. That's why it was like, it kind of hit people like, whoa. And then this is a little bit of a meandering section where... How dare you? No. And that ended up being some extra bars. And I love that they didn't redo it. Yeah.

Because Paul Chambers wasn't sure. And then Miles was like, you know, exactly. You know, and then he swinging and then went right into the line. And just counted it as the first eight bars. you know. Leaving off those last horns on the last E-flat. That's genius, right?

Oh, and I love the way this ends. Check this out. Give it up for six geniuses, everybody. Yes, okay. Just doing... Hearing an album is one thing, but trying to play this stuff is a whole other thing.

But that's exactly what we do and teach at Open Studio. World-class musicians, real instructors, all in one place. Go to OpenStudiojazz.com. That's openstudiojazz.com. start your free trial today. Back to the show.

Okay, I just realized we can do a whole episode just on this one soon and we've got, oh, this album has five songs but it's so epic to me I think it's 38 minutes long but this record always feels like well especially as you're going to hear it on this episode

it's going to feel like a lot longer than 38 minutes but it's, to me it has such a dramatic arc to the whole album and look, the way we're doing it here is not necessarily the recommended way. Hey, don't sell us short. No, no, no, I'm not. This is a good, this is like you're in the kitchen, you're learning how this stuff,

but to sit down and listen to this album from beginning to end, maybe turning it over on the LP. So it's such a, it's got such depth in terms of the overall narrative, dramatic flare to it, but also within each of the composition. So like, to me, they're going between the different souls. and then coming back and the stuff, like Jimmy Cobb at the drums is the one who just holds it together.

I mean, PC for sure, but he's not always walking, you know. And the melody's in the bass. Yeah. Like, this is not really, that's just so... There's really not much melody. No, I mean, there's a melody, but, I mean, if we go back to, like,

moose to mooch, where you have this, like, flowy... Give me out of that. Give me out of that. So here's a couple of things. So if you don't have Miles Davis's autobiography, you are missing out in your life, because this thing is salacious.

He got it yesterday, by the, don't let it make you feel bad. I didn't get it yesterday. These pages are a deep tan because they've been in and out of the sun for 20 years. Thrift shop. So Miles writes, I didn't write out the music for Kind of Blue, but brought in sketches for what everybody was supposed to play

because I wanted a lot of spontaneity in the playing, just like I thought was in the interplay between those dancers and those drummers and that finger piano with the ballet African. Everything was a first take, which indicates the level everyone was playing on. It was beautiful. When I tell people that I missed what I was trying to do on Kind of Blue,

that I miss getting the exact sound of the African finger piano up in that sound. They just look at me like I'm crazy. Everyone said that record was a masterpiece, and I loved it too. And so they just feel I'm trying to put them on. But that's what I was trying to do on most of that album, particular on, so what, I just missed. Can you believe that? Yeah, totally.

I totally can't because I've read the book. But also, no, because there is. This is not a perfect album. What? No, it is not a perfect album. That's literally the name of the playlist that I came up with. It's perfect album. No, because it's a great album, maybe the greatest.

But by perfect, I mean, like the fact that Paul Chambers played eight bars because either Miles didn't cue them or they weren't sure, it came out, I mean, I couldn't imagine it. Can we define terms a little bit? What about, what's perfect? There's mistakes on this album. Okay. You know what I mean? And that's part of the beauty, the way that they played them.

Let me just read you some from the liner notes. Mr. I've got something to read. I got a little thing called a printer, buddy. Are we having a research off right now? Yeah. No, so this is the liner notes that was actually written on the original album. This has unfortunately been redone and a bunch of different times. But originally Miles had Bill Evans write the liner notes.

And this is picking it up part of the way through. Miles conceived these settings only hours before the recording date and arrive with sketches, which indicates, to the group what was to be played. Therefore, you will hear something close to pure spontaneity in these performances. The group had never played these pieces prior to the recordings,

and I think without exception, the first complete performance of each was a take. Although it is not uncommon for a jazz musician to be expected to improvise on new material at a recording session, the character of these pieces represented a particular challenge.

And then he describes very briefly each of the compositions. I'll just do the first. first one because that's what we've heard. Briefly, the formal character of the five settings are, so what we just heard, a simple figure based on 16 measures of one scale, eight of another, and eight more of the first, following a piano and bass introduction in free rhythmic style. And that's what really sets the tunes like, So What and Flamenco sketches apart, is because if you remember the bebop with all that structure and do this now, this is completely open,

which you might be like, oh, well, that must be easier. But the thing is, is when there's no restrictions when there's no boundaries, when you can do literally anything, it becomes very hard to make a cohesive statement. It would be like if I stripped the rules of grammar away and you had to do free-form poetry, we could all kind of do it, but would it be good? No, probably not. Let's try. Not at first. I mean, great poets spend a lot of time with rules and with structure and learning how, like, the... Yeah, but this speaks to miles... And then you can be free. Right, and this speaks to Miles's acumen as a leader and a visionary, that he could bring in these sketches. For sure.

And the band. Yes. The band can take it. Right. But also that they could bring their personality, their improvisational skills to a situation where, I mean, look, this was kind of the norm at the time actually to do single takes. You could certainly do more. But like tape was expensive back then.

You know, and once, and we're going to maybe listen to a little bit of legacy stuff. where they're in the studio. Like once the producer says the tape is running, it's like, okay, come on, let's, it's not rushed,

but it's a, there's always a little bit of tension, because Miles would be like, hold on a second. And we, you know, there's a lot of, like the intention,

it's not like today where it's just like megabytes that are free, which has really changed the music, you know? Before we move on to Freddie Free Lurter, Peter, I want to play a couple clips. The first is Miles talking about this relationship with Bill

and their love of Debussy and French impressionistic music. Bill, Evans was one of my all-time favorite pianists Bill Evans his approach to the piano just brought that piece out

because he used to bring the pieces by Ravel concert of the left-handed orchestra you're that where's a piece Revelle's friend went on me and came back. He was a pianist, but he lost his right hand, so he wrote a piece for left hand an orchestra of a piano. And Bill used to tell me about different modes, which I already knew.

And we just agreed on something, and that's the way the album went. We were just leaning toward like Revelle and playing a sound with only the white keys, you know, Dorian minor modes, and it just came out. It was just a thing to do. It's amazing to hear. So this is that sound when he's talking about all white keys. All white keys. And then it goes up in that first tune, up a half step.

Same relationship, very open. model. Obviously, it's like, what did they do with it, so, right? I started to do some research on some of the classical elements of this, and I realized that I am 100% ignorant of all of that. However, you know, one of the advantages, Peter, of us being, like, jazz piano YouTubers, is that we've met a lot of other... It's called influencers, by the way. Okay, go ahead. We've met a lot of other piano influencers,

and one of our favorites is a guy in San Antonio, Texas, named Daniel Anastasio. He's a great classical piano. He's got a great YouTube channel and a great social media presence. Follow him. He's loads of interesting stories about classical music and like the structure of some of that music. And I text, I was texting Daniel last night as I was like working out at the gym. I was like, hey, buddy, we're doing this podcast. Like, what about kind of blue?

Like what are some like comps to that? Like where were they getting these sounds? And he sent me back, I swear to God, like five voice memos like right away. And they were so good because he's like a really good YouTuber that I just texted back, I was like, can I just play this at the show? And he was like, sure. So I'm going to play the first one. Okay. And Daniel's going to explain some of these textures and give some examples of things that Bill and Miles might have been listening to. Hey man. Yeah, I was thinking like in the Debussy preludes, how Debussy is using harmony is in these modal and pentatonic shapes. So he's

often like in the sunken cathedral using parallel octaves and fifths and it's not it's not growing to anything it's not resolving anywhere it doesn't have any tension it is just like a color or an environment or a shape it doesn't

again it's like it doesn't have the same kind of tension that the music from the late romantic period does it sounds like the intro to do it's about this like coloristic exploration so girl with the flaxen hair, for example, which does have a little drama in it, because it has this, like, cadence. What? Fuck that up.

But later on, like, listen to these voicings. Parallel fist, parallel force. And I feel like you get that in the album, too. And kind of blue. Isn't that great? So good. My best, the best piece of advice is always get friends that are smarter than you. that's why you're here

yeah so no it's so good and what we're going to hear on the next track too which is a straight up blues yeah yeah Miles is already sort of the master

of making these connections with his artistry you know when he's doing the modal stuff over so what and at that one point he's just like bib

so bringing the blues in like he knew how to combine which was not it hadn't not been done before And in some ways, Lewis Armstrong did this in the late 20s. We kind of heard some of this where you're taking some of these, like, maybe more like concert band, John Phillips, Susie kind of influences with the New Orleans thing and then the blues and like putting it together with this improvisational flare that was like revolutionary.

Absolutely. And was like literally took the world by storm. And it's like right when recordings and radio was coming out and stuff. But like Miles really like sat in that tradition in a way with this modal stuff and his love of the Ravel and the Debussy and stuff, and it's just genius the way it's all kind of, you know, the tapestry that it became. So the second track is called Freddie Freelotter,

and this is the only track that Witten Kelly plays on this album. Again, Winton was already hired as... He was the new pianist in this band, but he showed up to this session, and Bill Evans was there, and he was like, what? And he almost left. He was like, oh, he was because I guess I'm not starting yet. But here's, again, how smart Miles is

as a band manager, as like managing his people and getting the best out of it. Could you imagine this song? No, of course. With Bill Evans instead of Winton Kelly. Like, it would be so different. I'm sure it'd be great, but like this is, I mean, this is a lot of people's favorite track.

Could you imagine us listening to this track without me playing along with Winton Kelly? Please. Okay, I'm trying to restrain yourself. I'm going to try. 12-long blues. We're going back to the top. repeats, right?

All that stuff Winton's doing there. Yeah, yeah. It's just like counterpoint to the main, very simple melody. Man, this is a simple record. Now check out Jimmy Cobb's going to make a snare drum hit here. Oh, hi-hat, sorry. Yeah, yeah, we'll fix it in the edit. Careful.

There's some bebop for you, right? Sure. We'll flash with the bebop on this album. Hell, there's a snare. Good, dude. It's so sweet. It's so amazing. It's like a whole generation of piano players at O's Quinn Kelly.

Yeah, this is probably the most transcribed, learned solo of everybody from like Herbie Hancock, early 60s to today. No, say that again. Here's my. This is. Face. Okay, the solos are perfect on this record. That much I'll give you.

We're going to arm wrestle over the perfect later. No, they are, which is rare. I'm coming at you. That's rare, though. Defend yourself. Everybody's solo. Like, there's nothing that you'd want to change. I mean, this is some of the most complicated snare playing that Jimmy Kyle plays on the whole record,

which is, like, his restraint is impeccable. Like, a lot of drummers could have screwed this whole record up. This is strolling from it. Yeah. Take our time. We're about to have one of the greatest handoffs in jazz history between soloists. When John Coltrane comes in, I think it's the end of this chorus, is that right? Yep.

Just comes in on fire. He's already played more notes than Miles plays on the whole record. Like he has, you know. Man, they're listening. Oh, so good, dude. And Train's blues playing is effortless. Like, he throws that in like it's like he's just like tossing some tissue out of his pocket, man. Oh, true.

It's true. And that contrast between, you know, Miles is this like sophisticated sounding. He drives a Ferrari, you know, like train just comes in like a train on fire. The Chevy Silverado I mean just like I don't know What? I don't know

Is that a minivan? I can't remember But he just comes in and reminds you of everything raw About being a human being After you develop this like sense of like Well aren't we fancy with Miles You know what I mean

And the connective tissue Jimmy Cobb This is Cannibal Adderley Cannibal Adderley Toville, Florida Does Cannonball Adderley Have the most singable solos On this whole album?

So lyrical For sure Miles's pretty good, too. Trim did too. This is incredible. It's going to be a real challenge to get this into a tight 90, my man. Well, hold on. Before we leave Freddie Freelitter, though,

I do want to play just what I think is one of the most amazing moments. And it's Winton Kelly's solo. Just listen to a little bit without anybody else. And notice how he's like a drummer. You can feel the groove so clearly. Everything's so precise in the pocket. The left hand. So simple.

He lays those back a little bit. Man, so beautiful. Okay, next up. Man, so much is like two notes in the left hand. Oh, yeah. Why don't you do two notes in the left hand ever? I do sometimes. You do four, buddy.

Let's be honest. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding you shit. Next up is, I mean, this has got to be in the argument for one of the greatest jazz standards of all time, right? This is blue and green. Oh, blue and green, yeah.

And a long controversy on this. Controversial. for a while. It was credited to Miles Davis. I think in 2002, Miles as a state settled. Yeah, it was post Miles passing. That Bill Evans got credit for writing it. Yeah. Whoever wrote it, it's one of the great ballads in jazz history.

This is blue and green. This album at the base. 23 years old when this record was made. Yeah. PC. Just amazing. Jimmy Cobb was. Oh, train.

Yeah. Good. Glad you turned that off. Here's, give it up, yeah. Here's a little bit of, here's Bill's perspective on making Kind of Blue. Of course, Kind of Blue was the most popular of the three albums. But how was, I have heard it was very, you made Kind of Blue in one day in studio. Yes, that's right. Very quickly.

Was that a special experience for you? Well, yeah, of course, anytime you play with musicians like that, it's a special experience. like that it's a special experience but I think we all just do our professional best and perhaps that day the chemistry was maybe a little better than usual or something because that you can't predict what you can do is to be a good professional always do a good job and sometimes things come together so that it's even a little better than than professional you have contact with the Miles Davis these days. Some. Yeah. I saw him. Well, now it must be a year ago,

because I had heard these rumors, there's so many rumors around, you know, about Miles, and somebody told me he was very sick. Yeah. And they thought he was going to die. This was in the 70s when Miles was kind of out of playing. Yeah, I love his. That's like the ultimate understatement. Yeah, I think it was a little bit better than professional. Yeah. Yeah, Bill. That's what I strive for in this show, bud. Yeah. slightly better than professionals. No, I mean, it's actually stunning. So let's talk just a little bit

before we move on about the sound of this record. Oh, please. Columbia Records, Fred Plout, that was the engineer. Irving Town, was it, Irving Townsend, was the producer? Irving Townsend? Yeah. And Tio was already kind of involved,

but more as an apprentice, of course, would become... Tio Miserro. Tio Miserra would become Miles' producer through the great Columbia years. But even what we heard on that... A milestone. Yeah, that was already on Columbia.

That's already that new sound. And I think as musicians, we don't always give enough credit. Like the sound of a record like this, had it not been recorded as it was and so brilliantly. Although, talk about imperfections again, the piano's a little bit out of tune. The piano goes out, especially we're going to listen to All Blues. It's like pretty out. Which is surprising because Columbia was putting a lot of money. Like when Miles left prestige and Blue notes.

Yeah, impulse. Columbia was like Frank Sinatra, Dave Brubach, all these like big artists. And Miles was like that was a big thing. But the way that they recorded this was a little bit unusual. It had been done before, but it hadn't been done a lot. Normally on a jazz session, you're all like this. You set up just like on a gig in a jazz club. You're right next to each other.

And they were in what they used to call the church. It was an old church on 30th Street in, I believe East 30th Street. It's long gone now. the Columbia recording studios in New York City it was an old chapel church and they had a lot of room and they separated the instruments not in different rooms multi-track

but enough where they could isolate and get that particular sound on each of the instrument which is really breathtaking I mean we take it for granted and we're like Miles coming in with that Harmon mutant yeah we got a little clip here of Jimmy Cobb actually talking about that yeah the drummer in the place like

baffled you know yeah with some stuff around it so he wouldn't feed into the rest of the stuff. Yeah. Then the piano was in some place with a cloth or something over, so the rest of the man wouldn't feed into that, you know, so. So Legu was all, like, separated, kind of separated from each other. So to get the right sound at the end of the engineers want, he just comes in, that's how

simple. So instead of being real tightly packed together with, like, the mics all close together, they were in different parts of the room, separated from each other, more isolated, which is now very much the norm. Yeah, whenever you do anything. But I think that it had an effect on the way they play because you see the pictures. There's no video footage of it.

There is of them playing so what from another session from the NBC thing, but you see pictures of them and like Miles is at the piano and Bill Evans, these classic beautiful pictures. We'll have them on the show. But it's like they're very much together kind of learning this new music. Miles is like just little sketches and stuff.

And then they go to record one take. Now there were some false start. We're going to hear a few of those. They're shooting a lot of darts. There's a lot of cigarette smoke. Yeah, but there's also like they're kind of far away. So they have to listen. So I've always thought that this was, I actually asked Jimmy Cobb.

So Jimmy Cobb, the drummer that we just heard, was by decades, the longest living member. In fact, he only passed away within the last 10 years. But, I mean, he was, you know, the one member that was still around in his memory of it, that session, although I'm sure he was sick of people. Tell me if I kind of blue he had this long career, thousands of records. But, you know, I think that that really had an effect, that they were a little bit, they had to listen.

They had, they were a little bit out of their element, right? So they had to maybe play a little bit more simple. And I think, I don't know that it's just one of those things that happened, but that also enabled, as he said, the engineers to get this incredible sound on each of the instrument, which is really unmatched than anything Miles has done, I think. Next up is All Blues. Ooh.

A blues in G in 3-4? Yeah. Second blues of the album, of course. I mean, they're both blues, but you know what the thing is, man? Like, Miles rubbed the edges off of these. I know. Harmonically. You know what I mean?

Even this has the suspended sound where it's like, it's not just like, it's just, it's not bad, right? It's sort of like pastel nature to it. almost. Like a Long Island blues. No? I don't know. Is it?

I've never, I haven't been there in a while. Is it? And then those chords, very unusual, you know. And Jimmy Cobb is using brushes on this nared room. That's that, that text.

I mean, that micing of this is stunning. It sounds so amazing. Yeah. It sounds so amazing. This is pre-internet, by the way. Just to let you guys know how long ago this was. 1959

pre-Adam pre-Peter yeah another melodic baseline while the horns are on the start of miles of so

when Jimmy Cobb goes to the sticks let's take a minute just take a second yeah we got a switch little man Jimmy Copp goes to the sticks yeah

oh excellent oh it's excellent talking about not missing a beat So Miles took the Harmon mute out. There's just four chords in this whole. Miles knew when to reach. Made to be so far in your solo

and still leaving all this space. Yeah. I bet Train's not going to do that. But that's why it works so well. That's why Miles and Train are such an unstoppable combination. Because they, like, just when you're mesmerized here by Miles' charisma and

sophistication, train comes in and, like, punches you in the nose. And Bill Evans is using a very number of chords. Yeah, of voicing. That's right. Even between like this and so what? A lot of overlap. He's comping with colors instead of with melodies.

Yeah, and it's very much like in the, and Jimmy Cobb. Like, they're playing as a band. Like nobody's like, I'm going to do all this. It's like every little part, like they're listening at a level. Canneball. Oh, yeah. And he's dancing back and forth from that blues and more modal blues. Right. Cool. Let's show them just a little bit.

Like, we talked about, there's just four chords on this, right? There's this chord, the G7, but it's got, like, you alluded to this, like, it's got the little bit of suspended thing that Miles really articulates. Yeah, so instead of like a, like a, quote-unquote, yeah, instead of, like, the cartoon version of that, it's got this like, yeah like it's this it's like it's like a charcoal drawing almost

you know what fits over it it blends into the paper what fits over it is it's that same sound right mashup time come on mash up hello Miles Davis 100 one one thing

one thing I want to point out Peter is but that's like a thematic thing like because we're 20 minutes later in the record and they're calling back to this yeah all of

those chords. I mean, even the first chord of blue and green is like this beautiful... That's another sauce. It's a G minor 13 chord ever heard of it? Actually, it's a G minor 6-7. Stop. Would you stop with that shit, please? It is. That's the 6th and that's the 7. Hey. I'm about

to leave. All right. But it's this chord which I mean, it's like it's like blue and green. Like it has this like... It's got a nostalgic, forlorn kind of pensive and then...

French? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. The Seque. Adam. Okay. Okay.

So, but, okay, but just real quick again. So that's the first chord. And then the second chord, G, C-7, but it's... But it's not. It's not. It's not. Well, it's the same as the G, but up a fourth, right? With that same sussie. The same sussie kind of thing, yeah.

And then these two, very, like, obtuse, sharp knives. Right? And then back to the same. Yeah, yeah. There's four chords. And it's just like they created this world. Which by the way, and if you don't know chords,

you're probably like, who cares? And I get it. But it's like, if you think about a painter that just four colors but creates this incredible world with it. Yeah.

But a group of them doing it together. And this, that move that happens on the five. That's not like a standard move. That's like the Miles move. Yeah. One thing I want to highlight is just how long Bill Evans just trills.

I took all the horns out in the beginning. He's just trilling forever. Listen to this. That's discipline right there. I'd be like... Oh, I know. I know.

I know what you'd be doing. He could be on that. Noodles over here. He's still trilling, man. He's still going. That's the gig, dude. Come on, man. By the way, that's not...

That's like... Those are in time. Yeah. Yeah, this is just four-n-old. He's still trilling. Right. He's still trillin. He's...

He's... He's... He's... He's... Still trilling. Yeah. We're 40 seconds in. Yeah.

Not trilling. Okay. Nice. Thank you. The last track on the album is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever recorded. It's called Flamenco's sketches,

and it sounds a lot like this. This is not flamenco sketches. No. This is Peace Peace by Bill Evans, which came out the year earlier on Everybody Diggs Bill Evans. Riverside Records. And Miles took that little intro, made this. Sounds similar. It's also the same piano.

There's no melody to this song. No, it's no melody. It's just a sketch. Five chords. It's a sketch. Improfection there. Small, but beautiful. And this is the pivot chord.

Little sketches of Spain by tension, right? PC already went back to the seat Yeah Yeah It's gonna go with it That's the top That's the top of the form right there John Coltrane

That's one of the The greatest Yeah Give it up for John Coltrane That's one of the That's one of his most unique Solos You know

For sure There's elements that are almost Out of character For Train In a beautiful way And I mean this Cannibal Soul is amazing I just wanted to point out three times on this,

somebody went to the next chord at the quote unquote wrong time. And what's so excited about this, this song, it's not played a lot because it doesn't have a melody. Like, you have to create the melody. That's the whole thing. It's just five chords, right?

Yeah. Also, it's really hard to pull it off. Yeah. It's very difficult to pull that song off. Right, without, you know, Paul Chambers and Bill Evans. You do a great job of that one. It's one of my favorite songs to hear you play, Peter.

I think you just nail it. did you notice that like Paul Chambers went to the sea at the wrong place? But the way that he went to it, he didn't like, oh, jump off of it like he made a mistake. He played the wrong note. It's part of it, man. And then went right back. And it became, yeah. And so that's what I meant by.

It's not a perfect album, you know. But what if they had done another take and said, okay, we're going to fix us. Come on. Look at the charts, guys. You missed it. Eight bars. One, two, you know. Then what would they have lost from that vibe?

So, like, that's the Miles genius. Like, he's making his biggest budget record, Columbia records of his career. I mean, he was already famous, even beyond the jazz world, but he was at the customer like... Just to pushback now. Can we have this conversation now?

Yes. Doesn't that... The fact that Miles and this band is, like, leaving room for that kind of allowing, for that kind of, like, being with each other and being with everybody's mistakes, quote-unquote, letting it happen, leaving it in the music, one take, we get what we get because

this is about us in this room right now. Yeah. That is perfect, right? That is perfection. The imperfections of that make it perfect. Well, yeah, what you just said. The imperfections of it make it perfect. The imperfections, absolutely.

Absolutely. No, but I just, you know, we highlight that because it's like in nature. It's like finding the imperfections that are perfectly executed. It's just like in this room right now as we record this show. We've yet to make a mistake.

mistake, but when we do, we're going to leave it in. It will be perfectly executed. Should we get to some categories? Let's get to some categories. Okay, we always do these on every episode. If you've been listening, you will know this. Hold on. Before we do that, just, before we get off... Before we get off that, I just want to hear a Flamenco Sketch.

You have a piece of audio that you loaded into this iPad that says Flamenco Sketches, floor squeaks. I just got to know what this is. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is... In the studio. Miles. Okay. Hey, when you raise up on this, too, man, you get, oh, yeah.

You know, your floor squeaks, you know. You know what I mean? I'm literally. Yeah. You go. Let's go. That's hands on the strings, Paul Chambers. White House.

Take two. Act. How. Sounds like a Stanley Kubrick movie or something. Yeah, it does. But, I mean, that's how. loose it was, but it was also, because there's another, these are like little kind of

outtakes, they weren't complete takes, they were false starts, sometimes they would start and the producer be like, hold on, go again, because Miles, you can see it in the pictures was on this stool, and he had this like really cool, like scarf or ascot, a scascot or something. It was some kind of cool, you know,

he was a fashionista, but he, he's on this stool, but like, he's so relaxed and he would, you can hear it on some of it, like on flamenco sketches. it kind of creaking. And so the producer had stopped at the beginning. He's like, start again because, you know,

and that's why Miles was like, well, you got a creaky floor here. And then he said, yeah, but the snare is making and Miles on another one is like, yeah, that's part of the music, let's go, you know? It's just so fun to hear. And this is on the Legacy Edition. If you want to really nerd out,

they have a few of the out, the false starts and outtakes and stuff. Okay, Peter, let's get to some categories. What is your Desert Island track? If you could only take one track from this album, which would it be? desert or dessert? I'm always confused on that.

Okay, sorry. Desert Island track, I'm going to go All Blues. All Blues, great call. Yeah, because, I mean, but this is the rare album where it could be any of them for different reasons. But All Blues has some of the most incredible solos, although other stuff to do, but I love it. What do you got? I'm very basic, so I'm going, so what? Okay.

I think it's one of my all-time favorite tracks ever, honestly. As we listen to it tonight, I realize, like, I could listen to it all the time. Yeah. What about an apex moment? What is your apex moment of this album? Okay, so there's some really good choices on this album. Like, this is sort of, normally it would be sort of the greatest moment on the album,

the greatest part of a solo. But this album has so many, I like, this comes in waves in a way. Like I said, it's a short album, but it's epic, right? So there's a lot of really good choices. And to me, there's no one place where you're like, this is the greatest moment of the album. But train entering on blue and green, If you play it around 220 on that,

we can hear just a little bit of it. I think is stunning. Yeah, and then the whole solo, but the way he starts that, like his tone, it's almost no vibrato, his intonation, his sound. It's so... Very vulnerable. Touching.

Very vulnerable. Yeah, and it just got a little bit of vibrato around the edges at times. So direct, you know, genius. What do you got for your apex? I'm going to go with... And this is also my hot take. The greatest three notes in music history.

Miles is solo on So what? Doesn't get anybody. He just wants to show off how he can separate the instruments, which he can. I just think... It's such a great... It's such an iconic moment, right? It's like, when you hear that, you settle in, you know you're going to be treated to an incredible experience.

And it's just, I mean, what a... Simple way to start that, too. Damn, why didn't I think of that? Why didn't I think of that? I mean, of course, I could do that, but I didn't. And think about what's happened before that. Only a couple of minutes. But it's already been kind of epic.

Yeah, but all the rebuttal stuff with PC and Bill Evans. Yeah, it's been epic. And then... And the Jimmy Cobb, you know. And then... Like, now the party started. But like... Yeah.

It's great. Oh. Okay. Bespoke playlist. I want your apex moment. Sorry. Bespoke playlist title. Peter, if you were going to make a playlist

and this album was included in that playlist with other albums, like it, what would the title of the play list be called? Goaded. Goaded. Goaded. Like greatest of all times. Yeah.

Goaded. It has been goaded. Okay. And so there would be like just a very small, you're talking like maybe intervisions. Yeah. Maybe songs of the key of life. Yeah. Maybe, you know, giant steps.

Of course. Same year, 59, 60-ish. I mean, just the greatest albums that are just indisputably from whatever genre. Yeah. I have, I would call it one of one because this is like, This is like one of those albums. There's nothing else quite like it. Not in Miles Davis' catalog.

Like, what's another kind of blue that he made? He didn't turn around and the next thing he did was just like this. He's like, I'm going to live in this genre. He, like, pretty soon after this, formed a new band, started doing new stuff with a new group of musicians, formed his second great quintet a couple years later and is like onto a whole new sound.

And then a couple years after that, he's on to like, in a silent way and bitches brew and a whole new thing. And, you know, it's like, He's not ever sitting still. He made this one thing that was this like sketch of impressionism that he left with us. And even the songs that he did keep playing from this, like with the Herbie Ron Tony were totally different. They would do them like 300 beats per minute and just like, I'm going to rip your face off with this. Yeah, it was almost like, I'm going to play it for you.

Yeah, yeah. It ain't kind of blue. But this vibe was never recreated. And not just by Miles, by the way. What are the other kind of blues out there? Like some people are like time out, it's not really like this, is it? It's kind of its own thing. It's great, but it's its own thing.

Nothing by Mingus. Same year. Same year. Nothing, but nothing in this year of those like, you know, pantheon, shape of jazz to come, you know, Mingus Ahum, nothing's like that. All right. Well, don't talk about that too much because we get in two categories from now. We're going to come back to that.

Cool. Snobometer. Oh, by the way, the person who named... Hold up. Hold up. Quibble bits. Oh, shoot. Okay, quibble bits.

No. None. None. Great. Snobometer. Okay, yeah. So the, this... Tell them what the snobometer is, first of all.

Several years ago, we invented a device called the snobometer. And we thought this was so clever of us because it was snob-o-o meter. You know, like back in the 70s when everything was like deluxe? As a way to classify an album, like, how snobby is this album? Is this album that you would show to my dear Aunt Linda, who has very broad taste,

or would you show it to legendary art pianist Ethan Iverson? And substack. And substack. writer who's got great taste, but rather snobby taste. Snobvious of snobby. Who would like it more? If it's a 10, it's very snobby. If it's a one, it's not very snobby.

However, Bill Martin, who's actually here, my father, Bill Martin sitting in the front row, alerted us about a year and a half ago. He said, you know, the snobometer is kind of stupid. I said, what do you mean? And he said, no, no, no, the idea is good, but you need to call it the snobometer. That's right.

And so from henceforth after that date, it has been known as the snowmometer. And I just want to say, Bill, before you made that suggestion, we were not anywhere close on the Apple podcast charts. We weren't even in the conversation. We didn't even have Apple products yet. We've since peaked at like number four in music

since Bill changed that. Yeah. That's right. Causation or correlation? We don't know. We don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's the name change. Okay, what do you got? How snobby is this? So, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go three on this. That's a good call. What? Really? We rarely agree on this. I usually violently disagree with you, but I'm going to. I'm going a little bit less snobby than I think you are. Tell me you're thinking

on it, then I'll tell you mine. The most accessible jazz albums of all time. If you were to, if you met someone and they say, I don't really know anything about jazz, I don't think I like it. What's the first thing you would hand them? Kind of blue. So wouldn't that make it a one? it's still jazz okay fair enough so I'm going to tell you why I gave it a three and not I was I just knee-jerk put down one

I'm like finally we have an easy one this is the least snobby album ever made everybody loves it but I will remind you of your family lineage my dear friend Adam Aunt Linda has been assigned to one is Aunt Linda here tonight

No, I wish you were. Well, if this was a one, she would be here. See? That's why I were three. In my mind that came across a much more successful. It's going to be a great day. Okay. No, the reason I would just, I didn't give it a one really was because the fact that we can break down this stuff in the way that we did,

there's got to be some level of snobbiness to it, you know. So now we're hitting a little bit of a roadblock because the next category we have is one that we use on nearly every single episode, nearly every single episode. And that category is a question. And that question is, is this album better than Kind of Blue? Glitch! Glitch!

Matrix! We broke them. I do. I have system failure. I put glitch. Yeah, the system is failure. Okay, so let's move on. Yeah, we'll move on.

And, I mean, just to say, like, we've had very few... The only time we change it from, is it better than Kind of Blue, is if it's a record that we're doing that's so far out of the jazz world, that it doesn't make sense. Maybe we did that with Steely Danners. I can't remember.

Yeah, if it's something from the 70s, we might use Inervisions. Yeah, like the equivalent kind of thing. But for the record, like, we've had very few records that have been better than C.O. Blue. I mean, I can only think of one or two each. Maybe, yeah. You've done a lot of evens, which is kind of cheating.

Come a little bit. You've done a lot of evans. Okay. Okay, accoutrements. Ocuchamp. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, the album cover, the liner notes, all of the photos that accompanied the session.

You buy the... Everybody speaks French here. We're in St. Louis. This was French settled areas. Fair enough. But you know, you buy the record, you open it up, you look at it, like what is that experience like?

Yeah. I'm getting it a 10. Same. I mean, this is the rare... The rare 10. Yeah, on the original versions. Don't get these jacked up, jack-leg versions.

We got such a bootleg coffee at the studio. It's ridiculous. We normally have the album. And then I was like, I know we got kind of blue and somebody in the studio today. I was like, here it is. And it's like this picture.

it's because people the cover is like a Polish person it's like yeah it's it's because you know anyone can burn an LP or burn a CD so but the original I'm not saying you gotta go spend $900 on eBay and get the original

but I mean they've got really good pressings of this there's some bad pressings too from Columbia Sony but I mean the picture on the front iconic incredible Bill Evans wrote the liner notes the pianist face on the back like the proportions it's unbelievable yeah okay if this were to auto play

on a streaming service and there was an album up next what would be up next so I put oh I didn't give you the audio for jazz at the plaza or Miles 58 Oh yeah

this is Miles 58 Bill Ellis This is love for sale This is love for sale And this This is a great record called Miles 58. It actually wasn't released until a little bit later,

but it was the exact same band as Kind of Blue, but from a year earlier, Bill Evans was still in the band, and Philly Joe Jones was on drums. So it's a little bit, it's different. Like, I don't think, like, we learned today that Kind of Blue wouldn't have been Kind of Blue without Jimmy Cobb, without anybody was on it,

but especially Jimmy Cobb. I mean, wow, he just like, he's the one person that was playing every note, you know, on the entire album, I think. But Bill Evans talked about how much he liked, because he mostly played with Philly, Joe Jones in the Miles Davis Sex Stead. Same thing with Cannibal

Adderly, John Coltrane, Paul Chambers. And so that would be a great record to go, even though you're going backwards a little bit a year before, but really interesting record. What you got at him? So I didn't know we were doing audio for this, but I wanted to get mine up too, buddy, you know.

Yeah. Well, competitive over here. You want the Wi-Fi code? What's happening here? Can I help you? I'm going for this. Okay. John Coltrane's 1965 masterpiece, A Love Supreme. Six years later.

Also, somewhat of a singular album. Yeah. Also, a very heady concept. Also tunes that Train brought into the session with his quartet. Yeah. With them not ever seeing them before. So I think when we covered this album a couple years ago, you actually, this was one of the rare ones you said you thought was better than KLB.

Yeah, but I'm such a John Coltrane head that the more train the better. And then also, like, McCoy Tyner is my favorite pianist in all time. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard for me. Also, have you ever noticed that whenever we listen to any of these albums on the show, we come away with it like, that's the greatest album we've ever heard in our lives? I know.

I know. It's like whatever we last listened to. All right, this was awesome. This was so great. St. Louis, thank you so much for being here tonight. Until next time. You'll hear it.