You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Biggest Improv Mistakes You're Probably Making

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

Today, Peter and Adam list off some habits you should avoid when soloing. Which of these are you guilty of?7 Biggest Improv Mistakes You're Probably MakingPlaying too muchPlaying licks from the solos you've learnedNot playing confidently - tell your story!Not listening to the bandNot hearing the melodyNot playing to your audienceNot knowing what came beforeCalling all pianists - get the Piano Access Pass today! Save money with this bundle featuring every piano course ever from Open Studio, including teachers such as Peter Martin, Geoffrey Keezer, and Helio Alves. For more info, go to https://www.openstudiojazz.com/piano-access-passInterested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life? I care too much. I love too much. I produce too much. I'm Adam Manus. I'm Peter Martin. You're listening to You'll hear it.

A podcast about listening, developing, and playing music. Playing music, go to Open StudioJazz.com to get better playing music. That's our sponsor. Of course, we have our piano access pass, which is, I don't know if you know this, but it's been a real popper. It has been. I don't know what a popper means, but it's been taken off. Yeah.

Like Herbie Hancock's first album. It's like a hot pop. pocket one minute too long in the microwave. It just takes off. So check it out at OpenStudioJazz.com. What are we talking about today? We're talking about the seven biggest improv mistakes you, the royal you, are probably making. I was going to say you.

We mean Harry and Megan at this point. These are improv mistakes. They're improvising their way right to another continent. Did you notice that? I did notice it. Good for them. I know. We welcome them.

We need more royalty here. For sure. On North America. So, and we don't mean this in an accusatory way. These are things that we all do. These are kind of like knee-jerk, human-nature things to do when you get into an improvisation setting. Yes.

And so these are just things to be mindful of as you're practicing, you're soloing. You know, we just did our episode yesterday about practicing technique, but one of the things we preach about our practice routine is to practice performing. Yeah. And so when you're in the practice room and you're recording yourself and you're practicing performing, these I think are definitely going to be things that you can work on to make sure that when you get on the actual bandstand, you're not making these big mistakes. Yeah, and so that we don't have to personally accuse you of making these mistakes,

we thought it would be fun if, as you're listening along to these seven, you kind of self-evaluate a little bit of introspection. Yeah. And we might even do that. We're going to talk about it because, look, we've done all these, but like, it'll be fun to be like, when's the last time we did it? So if you're seeing that you've done all seven of these, like, on the gig last night, you might have a little adjustment you want to make.

Well, and, you know, a tip for this, we just had a really nice. post from an open studio, long-time open studio member Elias about his growth in 2019. And one of the things he started doing was recording himself playing with a band. And so I think if you really want to see if you're making any of these mistakes, you want to hear it. Yeah. You got to record yourself playing with musicians either at the jam session on the gig, even if it's just you want a friend at your crib. Yeah. Like you have to be self-critical in a way that's compassionate but honest. Yet judgy. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think that this, you know, That kind of leads to an overall point that we wanted to make today in that especially when you kind of hit a certain level and, you know, whether that's intermediate advance, I don't really know, but it's not beginner level.

But you get to the point for improvising where taking some things away is how you go next level. That's right. It's not about adding things, you know. There are things that we do need to add, but you definitely get to a place where if you take away some of these mistakes without even adding anything. thing all of a sudden you become a better player. And it's always easier to take away. And I always go back to the great John Williams, wonderful film composer, friend of the podcast.

Well, we don't know that. But we don't know him to be an enemy, though, do we? That's a big assumption. Yeah, yeah. No, but John Williams, and I remember my dad who got a chance to work with him. Actually, I got a chance to work with him once, too. It was amazing. Just drop that name on the floor.

Yeah, bam, John Williams. No, but my dad said at a rehearsal one time with the orchestra, he was conducting, and he was actually, they were playing a new piece that he wrote, and he had kind of overwritten it, and he kept stopping and saying, okay, take these bars outtasked. But his concept was, it's easier to take something away

than to add something in that you're not sure about it. And so once you get there, these are things that take away. Well, so this leads us right to number one, which is... Listen, no, it's not. Okay, playing...

No, it kind of is. Playing too much. So this is something that the... I remember the first time I had a smartphone and I recorded some of my performances, I was like immediately like... Which it had been a while.

It had been since college and I had a little mini-disc recorder. And I was like, I am playing too damn much. I'm playing so much piano. Right. Because I can. You know what I mean? It's like you get to this technical place

where it's like, and you know all the changes and all that stuff or whatever. You got to start subtracting. Yes. You have to listen to yourself and be like, would I want to sit here and listen to all this? Does this guy say all this stuff?

Said nobody ever. Oh, I wish I'd play more after they heard themselves on a recording. Nobody's ever said that. I didn't play enough notes. That was my biggest problem. It just has never said. Even when you really like what you're playing.

Yeah, for sure. No, I was playing like stuff that I liked playing. Yeah, man. And even more so when you're playing stuff that you don't like. So if you, and there's nothing wrong with that. Because normally we're going to be more, when we go back and listen to ourselves, we're going to be more critical than the average listener. And, you know, I would, my son, one of my sons is really into Adam Driver, the actor.

And he got into a little bit of trouble lately because he walked out of an interview or something. With Terry Gross, yeah, for fair, yeah, I read all about this. Yeah, but and I think people thought, oh, he's being a divo, whatever, but no, it was just, I understand that think of it's hard to listen to yourself, even when you're great or watch yourself, when you're a great actor like him. But the idea is that obviously people watching whatever he couldn't bear to watch or enjoying it. So we're our own worst critic, which is fine. I mean, that's how we develop and stuff, but that's why it is painful sometimes. But at least if it's painful for you, if you're not playing so much, you won't have to bear as much of it, right? That's right.

You know, have a listen to Keith Jarrett playing. Who? Keith Jarrett, he's a famous jazz band. We can't even say his name. We're going to get blocked now. Yeah, we can say his name. We just can't play his music. But have a listen to the way he phrases.

Because when I think of Keith, I think of this amazing technique and all these notes or whatever. But when you actually analyze any of his solos, and this is true of all of the greats, he's playing very short phrases. He's not playing a lot. He's putting a lot in your head because he's a brilliant musician. He's a great artist. But you don't need to play. Like, if you're playing more than Keith Jared, you're playing too much. Exactly.

Exactly. And even if you're playing last, you're probably not playing the right stuff. Exactly. All right. So that's number one, playing too much. And if you're playing along at home,

do you do that? Now, this one I'm going to say, yes, everyone's done that. It's just a matter of when's the last time you did it. Yeah, of course. I know for me it was probably the last, I mean, this one is very hard to. It's hard because you get all excited.

Yeah. And as pianists, we don't have to breathe. Yeah, I know. Just go on forever. Typewriter syndrome. No, bueno. No, bueno.

Okay, number two of our seven biggest improv mistakes you are probably making. playing licks from the solo you've just learned or that you learned a long time ago that never works out like preordained licks it's not going to work yeah because look you're not going to play it okay there's a number of reasons why it doesn't work

first of all it's not your story so don't steal that story and it's not even about yeah maybe legally you can and I know we encourage learning solo so that's great the only time it's okay to play licks from a solo you've learned is when they just come out as part of the flow of your story

and then that's fine right and then maybe you could even make a little joke, just like if you're talking and, you know, everything that we say we got from somewhere else. We don't need to reference it. Yeah, we're not saying don't take licks from other players or don't learn their, their styles. But don't consciously do it. Yeah. Don't consciously do it because- you. Let it, let it, let it be absorbed into your playing. Yeah, because then there's a much better chance that it's going to come out, you know, you're going to be like, oh my God, I played that exact lick, but I didn't even realize it. It's probably not going to sound as part of the organic flow of your story and no one's going to notice. it like, oh, I'm about to do Herbie Lick number 11, it's going to come out sounding stupid and like Herbie Lick number 11.

So no Bueno there either. When's the last time you did that? That actually has probably been a while. That's probably been the one for me that's because I've learned that a long time ago. That it just, first of all. It doesn't work. It's impractical. Yeah, I'm not going to sound good.

I know if I try to, even if I'm learning a solo, I'm not going to consciously do it. If it comes out, great. Right. You know, I know it's natural. Yeah. And same for me. I mean, I can't even remember the last time. So that one, check mark.

So the third biggest improv mistake you are probably making is to not be playing confidently. You have to tell your story. Now, we talked a couple weeks ago about, you know, this rule of what we're playing, what we're speaking, right? These studies about the amount of importance, 7% is actually the content. How you say it and your body language actually causes more reaction in people than the content of what you're saying. So, and this is totally true with how you're playing. If you are not confident in what you're doing, if you look meek, if you sound meek, if the way you are saying these licks or these, this language that you've learned.

You're going to get beat up. Well, if you're in the wrong neighborhood. But it's just not going to, it's just not going to land, you know. I can sit here. I'm not a professional stand-up comedian. I can tell you a John Mullaney joke or an Eddie Murphy joke and it's not going to happen. Right. It's not going to be funny.

Like you might laugh because it's a funny concept. but if Eddie Murphy was here, he could read the phone book and it'd be hilarious. Yes. Right? Because he's a naturally hilarious person. Yeah. And as musicians, our goal is to be able to convey this music in a way that lands with people.

Yes. So I know, I feel confident that I could play two notes and make some story out of it to tell part of me with those two notes. You know what I mean? Hello. Peter's very funny. But no, I mean, how are you? That's three notes.

But I'm telling my story. You're telling your story. But I know that I've worked on being able to communicate confidently. And I think that's the key to this. That's my confident atom music. If you're just worried about what you're playing and not how you're playing it, you're doing it wrong. That's the biggest mistake. I think that's, this is great, by the way.

I love the background music as I'm talking. No, but seriously, if you, this is the biggest, one of the biggest mistakes you can make when improvising. If you're not concerned about how it sounds, but more with what you're playing, you're in the wrong. Yeah, and I would just add to that that your story, and that's where your confidence should emanate from, it should not be about what is your skill level. Nobody's ever like, oh, I've mastered this instrument

so now I can play confidently. I've mastered comedy. So, I mean, some of the greatest comedians are some of the most insecure about their actual skill level. But what you can't master is yourself and know that your story is unique and is important.

and that people are more interested than you think in hearing it. That's right. And so the whole process of getting better as a musician is about really just being able to bring our story out. It's as simple as that. Simple as that. So you can, even if you don't know all of your scales and all keys and all the tunes and all this kind of stuff, whatever you're playing, you can be confident in knowing that you're doing it the only way that you can. That's right. So go forth and be confident.

It's about the how, not the what. Yeah. And now this is something that's certainly experienced. So you want to practice a lot. You want to play a lot. You want to put yourself out there. you want to take risk because this one I haven't had a problem within a long time either, but not because I'm a genius of this.

It's just because I've done this a lot. This one I get in a bad habit of going back to trying to information my way to a good solo. Yeah. Never works. Never works. So I have to check this. And I do, on the regular and the older I get, the better I get at knowing that it's about the hot. Well, you know what they say, a great hip hop artist that I can't remember.

It said, you got to check yourself before you wreck yourself. That's right. Okay, good. All right. Number four is not listening to the band. This is one of the biggest mistakes you can make. You are not playing this music in a bubble. No.

You are not, unless you are actually playing in a bubble. That's possible. And like the band's not in the bubble with you? But even if you're playing a solo piano concert, I'm still listening to what's going on. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So this one, I think, is another kind of experience one that, like,

once you, you do have to be conscious of this and check yourself on it. But once you get in the habit of it, you realize how much easier it makes what you're doing to listen, unless it's a whack band. And then you kind of, there is a time you'd have to tune things out maybe. If things a little whack. Yeah.

Yeah. But even so... Well, if no one's listening to you, that can be frustrated. That's hard. Yeah, yeah. But once you start, you know, if you're lucky enough to play with good musicians on the regular, you realize how much this helps. It's kind of like running with a group instead of by yourself.

You're like, wow, this is physically easier. And, you know, it shouldn't be. You're still covering the miles. That's exactly right. This is actually makes improvising easier, right? Because you can get information from the players you're with. It's like having a conversation. Like I heard you just say, it's like putting in the miles and it gets.

easier that made me think of and now I have this riff that I've been going on for 20 seconds. That's right. That's why this podcast is so much easier when we're both here. I don't know if you know this. It's just one of us. It's a nightmare. Yeah, yeah. All right. So number five. Number five is one, two, three, four, five. This is our list of just as a reminder in case somebody just tuned in. Our seven biggest improv mistakes you were probably making. Um, how could you just tune? Why did you? It's not a radio show. You said it like it was a, it was a car commercial. I know, sorry. Okay. So this, this mistake is not. For all your Ford and Mazda needs. Special lease rates do not apply

Not hearing the melody So this is not And I think by hearing what we mean Is really in our subconscious Like the form, the melody Keeping that as part of our Not necessarily quoting it Although sometimes that might be

But just having that is kind of a A little bit of a phantom That's always there As we go through that time continuum of the form Like so we don't play the melody Then abandon it and it's all me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me so you're constantly hearing the melody

and just as some of these other ones were this makes it easier. This is your reference point. This is what the tune is. This is going to force you to play melodic. It is the tune. I had an old head once tell me when I was a kid.

If you're not hearing the melody, then it's just a bunch of two-fives. Right. You know, and what he meant by that was like, that's not the tune. The two-fives aren't the tune. No. The tune is the tune.

Right. If you can go to the Supreme Court, we'll tell you that as well. That's true, yeah. That's been proven by law. So you have to have that in your head, not just the form of the chord changes. That's not what it's about.

Music is about the melody. And when you're improvising, you're trying to create sometimes textures, but mostly you're trying to create melodies. Right. So you've got to have the original melody in your head and go off that. Good, good stuff. So number six, we have, this is a big mistake. Big, big, big one.

This one might be our first controversial one. I couldn't see any controversy in those first five, but this one's possible. This is the mistake of not playing to your audience. I think this is super important and is a big mistake when you don't do it maybe not the way people are expecting No, I read the room all the time Yeah, read the room

It doesn't mean playing down to your audience So don't think of it like that But playing to your audience So I mean this you could save your life sometimes You go into the wrong country Western Country and or Western bar And you try to pull out too slick of a bebop thing You might get cut

I like this one I'll you know I have that regular Thursday gig at Thurmans That's a 3337 Shannon Doer No, every Thursday at 8. And most of the times we actually have an attentive listening crowd. They're packing the place

listening to us and I'm so thankful for that. But sometimes you're in there and it's a bunch of St. Louis Blues fans and I don't mean the music. I mean the hockey team. And so I actually look at it as a challenge. Like, oh, we're going to get these folks. You know what I mean? Like I might not play if it's the same way if it's a bunch of jazz heads.

Yeah. But I'm going to get these folks and we're going to have a time. Like, I think as a performer, it's my job to connect with the audience, not to meet them where they are and then elevate them. Absolutely. We can have a great night together. That's right. And I can't do it without you. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I mean, yeah, this, otherwise, just stay home and play for yourself. For sure. And then that's your, that's, you still got to play for your audience, though. Hey, listen, you're the audience. John Zorn plays for his audience. You can play to your audience. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Um, yeah, and this doesn't always mean playing more, like, in this

example, it was probably you're talking about maybe needing to do, you know, things that'll draw the people in a little bit more. Well, I have tunes that I know that these folks will like. I'm still playing them in the way that I'm, is my voice and I'm playing them. But if you're going to the contemporary art museum for a very special night of avant-garde from different styles and your trio is one of the featured things, you're going to play to that audience as well. You're going to pull out some longer form things, maybe some original compositions,

because that's what the, that's appropriate for the venue and for the audience and that kind of thing. Yeah, I'm not changing too much of who I am. I'm just reading the room and being like, I think we can have a better night as a group of people in this room on this earth right now if I'd do this. Yeah, and then on the real kind of more micro level of what we're actually talking about improv, I think

this is like, there's certain situations it could be the time of the night, the time of the set, where it is or whatever, that when you get to your solo, you really need to be like playing in a certain way. Like the most obvious thing would be like if you're in a blues bar and it's

that's, and your sax player and it's time to walk the bar as we say, you better walk the bar because the music is calling for it. And And that's playing to the audience. It's almost like playing to the music. For sure. And you can be like, well, that's pandering. I want to do my Albert Eiler stuff or whatever.

That's not the time to do that. That's not what the audience wants to hear. Now, you can challenge them. You can still take them on a journey. Take them on a journey. Tell your story and everything. But keep in mind that we're playing music for an audience. So when you're improvising, that's already a big journey because you're already playing

something that's unexpected or whatever. So keep your audience on it. I don't think there's any controversy to this, at least from my perspective. I think it's crucial. Well, people look at us. a sellout, so you got to understand that. Whatever. Number seven of the seven biggest improv mistakes you are probably making is to know what came

before. And what I mean by this is what was the tune that you just played in this set? Right. What was the soloist who just soloed before you do? What was the phrase you just played before that? What was the phrase that you started off with? What was the phrase? If you don't know where you came from, how you know where you're going?

Damn, that would you stole my line. I knew you were going to say it. I love that line, man. I know you don't. But it's so applicable to this. And I love it because it's so simple. Like, you know, every. Every, you know, improvisation is a story, and it's being told in real time.

And the excitement and the interest that's built into that for the audience is already there for you. Like, the audience knows that. Most people that come to hear jazz, I mean, what is one of the most common questions we get after a performance? Oh, was all that improvised? It was all that, exactly. How much of that was improvised? You know, it's so interesting and intriguing to people. We don't have to sell them on that part.

We just have to deliver on it. But if we're not thinking about where we are in that time, space continuum of a solo, as we improvise, and we're not cognizant of that. We can't link that together as a cohesive story. So, yeah, some of these other things are going to help us do this. These all work together, but knowing the melody, knowing the form, playing to your audience, you know, not playing too much, all that works together. But we're constantly aware of where we are in our story, the other solos that have been told,

maybe even something from another set, dare I say. No, for sure. You know, an improvised solo is really just a series of decisions. And so in order to make an informed decision, you have to consider, what's happened before and what might happen after. Yeah, and you've got to see the court, like what we say in basketball, I mean, I'm part of that world too, at a more junior level. But, you know, you're the point guard coming down the court, like, the great point guards

are seeing the whole court. They're seeing what, they're playing chess already, you know what I mean? Everybody else is just like getting tired or looking over, whatever. Somebody's got to, like, that's the improviser there. I mean, everybody's improvising, but that's like the main improviser setting things up. And you're thinking about different. Like football's like rock and roll, but basketball's like, yeah. Yeah, it's like jack, jack, jack, jack, jack, jack, jack.

I love that one. It's an office reference. So, anyway, that's good, man. I think we really nailed this one once again. We improvised and we didn't make any mistakes. Yeah, you know, we glossed over them if we did. Yeah, that's right. As any good improvisers should.

Should we do a quick rehashing of these? Oh, yeah. Our seven biggest improv mistakes, you're probably making. Number one, playing too much. Number two, play licks from solos you already learned. Number three, to not play confidently. Number four, to not listen to the band. Number five, not hearing the melody.

Number six, not playing to your audience. And number seven, not knowing what came before you're playing, not knowing where the heck you are. So true. Go to you'll hear it.com. Leave us a voice message. Leave us a rating and review in your podcast app wherever you get the podcast from. Yeah, I mean, if you're watching on YouTube, big shout out to YouTube.

If this made the cut, I don't know if you know this. We're getting a little bit more picky about what goes to YouTube. Oh, I know, bud. Okay. But leave a comment there. We'd love to hear from you. We're having some fun. 2020s rolling along, you know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying? Boom. Boom, boom. You'll hear it.