You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Crucial Details for Navigating Chord Changes

Episode Date: March 12, 2019

Today in the Podcave, Peter and Adam use the Kranich & Bach to show you how to find your way through chord changes.Today's episode is sponsored by the Oxford American. The Oxford American is a magazine dedicated to documenting the complexity and vitality of the American South. Its award-winning annual music issue comes with a CD sampler and digital download - a must-have for any serious music fan. Recent issues have featured Nina Simone, Thelonious Monk, John Cage, and John Cage. Visit https://www.oxfordamerican.org/yhi today for a special subscription discount!Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Adam. Yes. Who are some of your favorite navigators? Well, there's good old Chris Columbus. Oh, yeah. He's kind of controversial, though. Very much so. What about Magellan?

Magellan was good. Are you jellin? Buddy, I'm always jellin. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Daily Jazz advice coming at you. And I got to tell you, Adam has a very smart and smug look on his face.

Whitty banter, my friend. He whittied the witty the banser. He got it. He came back at me. tried to throw him a curveball, he hit that sucker. You know, we get about 75-25 witty, cringy banter comments. That adds up to 100%. As I said before, man, it's part of our sound.

That's right. That's right. Today's episode is sponsored by the Oxford American. The Oxford American is a magazine dedicated to documenting the complexity, and warmth of the American South. It's award-winning annual music issue comes with a CD sampler and a digital download. It's a must-have for a, any serious music fans. Recent issues have featured Nina Simone, Thelonelonius

Monk, John Cage, and John Coltrane. How's that for a nice little eclectic mix of master musicians? I like it. Yeah. Visit oxfordamerican.org slash YHI today. That's Oxfordamerican.org forward slash YHI. Yeah, yeah, Oxford American.

That's right. Day two of our wonderful sponsorship and association with this great organization out of Little Rock, Arkansas, just down the road, quite a bit down the road from us. But do south of here. Wonderful people. Legit.

So today we're talking about seven crucial details for navigating core changes. These are things that keep coming up in emails and questions to us. And these are also some things I see a little bit of confusion on. And before we get deep into this, there's more than one way this is going to cat. This isn't the only way to do everything. But I just wanted to kind of clarify some of these things for people who might not know. Okay. Yeah.

And when we say there's more than one, that's always been an interesting little turn of phrase. Yeah, you start at the feet. You start at the tail. There might be more than one way, but why would we have to even think about that? Why bring that into the vernacular? Who's the last time someone's, never mind? So let's deal with number one, the Fridgin scale on a 3625. You know what I'm saying?

No, I do not know what you're saying. So I'm very interested in it. I'm familiar with the Frigian and I'm familiar with the 3625. So interested to hear about this. So a lot of folks, when they see a 3625, let's say we're in the, the key of C, right? You have E minor 7, A7, D minor 7, G7 to C. The E minor 7 often is played as a Dorian scale, right? I mean, I do it, but it can be, and sometimes should be played as a friggin scale, which is the third scale degree of C, starting on E, all white keys. So that's diatonic C major, basically. Right. So exactly. And you can almost think of it as like a C major seven over an E sometimes, or you could think about it as a friggin sound, an E minor seven. with that natural F and a natural C, right?

Because, you know, C sharp in the key of C, sometimes doesn't sound that great. I mean, it's a way to go out of the changes if you want to use the 3-6, but I think there are definitely instances, especially when you're dealing with, like, playing a melody that is in the key of C, and you put in like a big F-sharp

or, you know, God forbid a C-sharp in there. Yeah, it can be a little... It can be clashy. Yeah, yeah. For sure. I like it. And I think it's almost, you know, you could think about it.

A couple things sounds, as you said it, I realized I do play that. I never thought about it like that. I might think about it a little bit, almost like an F major 7 or F major over E. Interesting. I thought about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I could see that. But also it's like a little bit of foreshadowing, too, since it's diatonically the same as C major, which is where we're going. Right. It's almost like foreshadowing. You might think, oh, it's too early to go there. But you hit on that over the E because we know that we have two dominant chords,

the A7 and the G7 coming up soon, that there's going to likely be some tension in. And we have, some other areas we go to. So it's almost like you're starting more in C major than you would if you use the E Dorian. That's exactly right. So next time you're playing a 3625, let's say you're playing in B flat and you play a D minor 7. Try not to play like practice not playing D minor 9 with a natural E, but play an actual D minor 7 chord with basically a B flat major scale, you know, the friggin scale starting on the third degree and use those tones. You're going

to find yourself sticking in the key a little more. Like it's going to sound more diatonic. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's a good thing because you're right about it. You've got a great place to go with that dominant situation going next. Exactly. And we're always talking about this. It's like it's all about the progression. It's never what do we play. And I love how you have this as we're navigating chord, which is progression. It's not just a static situation. And think about this too. That's not to say you can never use the Dorian in a three, three chord, three six, two five. But if you set it up diatonically and then maybe the next time around, you hit that natural nine chord. Now you've created some contrast. You set your listener up for something they're expecting straight down the middle, and then you've taken out of the key for just a second. A little harmonics and compation, could we call that? I think you just invented a term.

But yeah. So anyway, that's number one, the Phrygian scale on a three chord of a 3625. Nice, I like it. Okay, number two, we've got one blue scale, please. That's right. Or is it one blue scale, please? It's one blue scale, please. I take one blue scale to go.

Okay, so this is that, you know, there's, there's almost countless as in potentially any core progression this could work on long, short, ending, beginning, middle of, that we take the blue scale. And this is almost always going to be in the key that we're actually in or that we're going to. That would be your blue scale. We've done many diatribes on don't switch blue scale to every chord you go to on a blues. But this would mean that no matter what the complexity of the chord changes, that you would be using the blue scale to kind of center things. in that tonic blues area. And this is not only on a blues.

In fact, some of its most effective use, I think, is on, you know, bebop or more esoteric changes or a lot of different situations. Practically anything. Practically anything. This one probably is the most flexible out of all of them, wouldn't you say? Agreed. Because, like, number one was really specifically 36251.

This could be over a 36251. And it's kind of a form of foreshadowing, I think, in a way, especially when you start your phrase with the actual changes or whatever kind of straight down the middle. and then you switch over to the blue scale of the chord that you haven't gotten to yet. Right. It's the ending.

It's the one. Yeah. If you hit the two chord and it's a D minor seven in the key of C, you're not going to play the D blue scale. No, no. Yeah. But you could play the C blue scale if that's where you're going. Yeah.

So it's kind of like you're shifting things. So there's a certain down-homeness to it because it has that blues connotation, of course, used correctly. But it also has that like, you know, out of, a little bit out of harmonic balance because you're not there yet and it's not over the actual chords you're playing. But melodically and blues and rhythmically you're pulling it together.

It's so strong. It kind of trumps everything at a certain point. Yeah, that's right. Don't ever use that word again. Sorry. Number three is the dual uses of the diminished scale. So we talk about the half whole diminished scale and the whole half diminished scale. And I see some confusion sometimes when people

play these. The easiest thing to remember, so let's say we're in the key of C. on a C7 flat 9 chord half hole right on a C diminished whole half that's it those are the two primary uses

for the diminished scales they go together like Cranic and Bach yeah the whole the half hole goes on dominant like crinic that's what we just played it on I know I know the half hole goes on dominant chords usually dominant flat nine natural 13s

yes right and the whole half goes on straight up diminished seven chords. Right. That's it. And the confusing thing about that is it's called the diminished scale, but only one of them is actually over a diminished chord. That's right. Yeah, that always confused me. But I actually use the other one more. Yeah. You know, usually. And they're actually the same. I mean, if like you think about the three different ones of each and then diatonically shifting down or really going through the diminished cycle. I mean, there's only three of them and they overlap. But don't be playing the half hole,

the sea half hole over a C diminishment. Come on, man. Don't be doing that. Come on. We're going to start a segment called, come on, man. Somebody did that on the show. Yeah, but we're going to feature people that do things like that. Come on. So the next one, number four. Number four, dominant seven sus. That's dominant, not minor.

Okay. I don't understand this one. So if you have D7s, what scale goes with that? It's not a Dorian scale. It is not a Dorian. It's not a Dorian. Not usually. Oh, yeah, because I guess it's minor 11 more.

D minor 7 Suss 4 maybe Is that even the thing? No. No, exactly. But like I'm talking about like Maiden Voyage, right? Right, right. Yeah, your default on this should be towards major third, but you're playing off of the kind of duality between the fourth and the third,

that leading tone back and forth. Exactly, exactly. But it's not straight up, it's not a minor. It's not a minor, no. And I mean, probably the only time you'd put the minor either be passing or maybe when you're using the one blue scale kind of thing within it. Maybe people get confused because of that.

Yeah, yeah. But like if it's D7s, I straight up think, you know, that's mixalidian, that's down at scale. Absolutely. But you're playing with that, like you said, with that fourth. But nothing sounds better, actually, to me than, like, play at F sharp. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about, that, that 4, 3 and whether you put it on top. Totally. Number five.

I would just say just real quick about that, too, what I realize some people's confusion on that might be that people write, they want that minor suss sound, which is really, I mean, doesn't matter what you call it, but I would say that's more. of the minor 11. Because it has the fourth, you know, or the 11th on there, but that's kind of a little bit of a different sound. They can be played, you know, close to each other, but they do have a different sound. Yeah, I think if that's what you want, you have to somehow signify that it's minor. You can't just put like D7, Suss 4 and expect people to play in F. They're going to be back in the, come on, man.

Come on, man. Come on, man. In general. And I'm only saying this on the precedent of the tunes that, you know, Herbie tunes and things like that, more modern stuff that have that sus sound. Yeah, stuff written in the 60s, you know, more modern. 70s sometimes, buddy. Number five, half diminished. How does they work? How does they work? Okay, half diminished. This is something

that I struggled with, just like I think most people, to make them sound good. And so I think, you know, we're talking about navigating core changes. So this is definitely one that we don't want to think about in isolation. We're always thinking about the progression, where does it lie? The most obvious place for this is as a two in a two to five to a minor chord normally. So some of the techniques we talked about earlier as far as even like with the Phrygian and stuff that you're thinking about over that 3625 kind of where you're going, that could be done with this as well where you're thinking about maybe a Dorian or even a natural minor

of the one that that two half diminish would be eventually getting to. Either that or you could think about the Dorian from. Well, that would actually be the Phrygian too over the two. Exactly. That's what made you think about with the other one, right? Well, I think what I was thinking on this is there's two different scales that most people kind of associate with this. The first one is the more traditional, where you actually think of this as like a B minor. Yeah.

Over, sorry, B flat minor over a G. Yeah. Right. And so you hear some B-Bop musicians play B-flat minor. Yeah. That kind of sound. Yep. So that would be this scale.

Right? Yeah. That's the... Locrian? Locrian, exactly. But that is also the, that's the Phrygian, isn't it, of E flat? No, because it's got that. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah. So that's the seventh degree from the A-flat. Okay. Yeah, that's true. You know, because we're in F-minor, relative major, A-flat. Yep. And then the locrian... So it's the natural minor of where we're going, actually.

Exactly, yeah. You could use the harmonic minor. Right. Or you could use the melodic minor sound, what people call the Locrian Sharp 2, which is the same scale, but you have a natural 2 instead of that. Right? So the first one is G, A, A, B, F, C, D, D, F, F, G. And the second one just has this, it's the same thing, but with a A natural.

And I like using that, but I don't always like to use it at the bottom. Like, that's something that I heard Herbie Hancock do where you're putting it at the top. that and I think about it is, well it is the ninth. Yeah, yeah. And like all these different things, we always want to think about it. It's not just like when we're navigating, it's like how are we using them,

like in what order on the top as part of a shape or as part of a scale? Like sometimes when you just play the scale, you're like, uh, but then you can choose those notes in a melodic way with a shape that actually works really good. Yeah. But that second one, that sharp two,

that's based off of melodic minor. Yep. Which brings us to our six point. Yes. Don't ignore the mind. Melodic minor. No, don't hate on the melodic. And we're talking about the ascending melodic, right? Well, I'm talking about both. Oh, you're talking about both. Using both. Isn't the melodic minor the one that changes coming down? I'm classical. Oh, sorry. Not a jazz, man. Man, I'm such a classically

trained individual, man. You should see the architecture I'm working on. Straight classical. I'm talking about melodic minor harmony. You know, building the Lydian dominant sound, that Lochrean sharp two, the altered scale, uh, the major seven augmented, right, sharp 11 sound. All those things are from melodic minor harmony. And that's straight up and down. And for those that don't know, that's just a major scale, but with like the flat, the minor third.

Yeah, ascending melodic minor. And then down you play. No, don't do that. No, no, no. But off of that harmony are all those different scales that you can use on a variety of changes. The Lidian dominant, from that C melodic minor,

that's F-Lidion dominant. what else do I have? Oh, that's that Locrian scale, so like A. E flat. Whoa. Yep, I like that.

All that comes from that one melodic minor. So make sure to, like, shed on your melodic minor stuff. Good stuff. All right, number seven. We're at number seven. Our crucial details. Sharp 5 versus flat 13. Thoughts.

Exactly the same. Right? Totally good. Not on a violin, but on a piano. No, very different. Yeah, I think of them. Often confused because they're the same note. I think of them differently because the sharp five to me implies that there's really, the nine is not in play.

Yeah. The flat 13 implies that the nine is in play sometimes. So the sharp five is more of an augmented sound, right? Exactly. And so that really means that the regular fifth, the perfect fifth is not in play. Exactly. You know, exactly. But the sharp 13, not necessarily.

Exactly. So a lot of times for me, I mean, the only time I get into really, I mean, I think there's a certain sound and a function within progression. we can talk about, but when I'm writing out chords with, and maybe I have a certain voicing in mind and I'm making a chart arrangement or a tune, if I'm a little bit confused as to which one it is, like I know that the note is there, and it's either a sharp five or a flat 13.

Right, right. I'll play the fifth and see if it sounds like it's still part of what's going on, and if it does, then I know that's a flat 13. And then this doesn't always work, but 90% of the time, and then I'll also, the inverse would be played the 13th, the 6th, and see if that sounds like it shouldn't be there,

or if it's only a passing tone, and then you know it's a raise fifth. Totally. Now, there's ways to combine them and stuff, and there's certainly some overlap, but in general, I think that's the easiest way. Just do it by ear like that. Yeah, yeah, totally.

And I think for me, the sharp five implies somewhat of a whole tone thing. It could definitely speak to me in that sense. Like a sharp five means probably a natural nine, and a flat 13 might mean more of an altered sound. I have a question for you about those. Which do you think is better? Oh, easily sharp five.

which is your favorite. No, I don't have a preference. I'm just here to serve the music. Yeah, that's right. No, but I mean, it's all about the function and where you're going with it. I mean, and that's, you know, look, the voicing could be exactly the same,

but if you talk about the function and then you add in, even if you're not playing that as part of the voicing as a piano, so if you're just playing through it, you know, in terms of something melodic or whatever, you're going to be able to hear the difference depending

on where you're coming from where you're going. Totally. Nice. Totally. Good stuff. All right. Well, once again, we got way in the weeds on that way. That's right.

Tuesday it's hump day so you know Is it? Yeah, I guess it is. Tuesday's not hump day, man. Wednesday is hump day. It's the middle of the week. It's a hump you got to get over. The middle of the week is technically like three and a half. The middle of the work week. Tomorrow. I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

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