You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Great Jazz Pianists That Aren't On Mt. Rushmore - #121

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam discuss their favorite jazz pianists who are a little less appreciated. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Manus. You're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you. Today we're going to give you seven great jazz pianists that are not on Mount Rushmore. Okay, two questions. First of all, there aren't any jazz pianists on Mount Rushmore? You wrote the title to this, but...

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, well, and question two. Aren't there four people supposed to be on Mount... Yeah, we're forcing seven on... We tried four before and then we got so excited. We added more, and then we said we're going to add... even more later. I feel like we even ended up with nine.

I know. And now I feel bad because these are great players we have today. And it's like it's the second rung. You know, it's like you'd have the real Mount Rushmore. And then as you're driving there, like for the lazy people, come to fake Mount Rushmore on your way. But these are still great, maybe getting a little bit less under the radar, right? Yeah, totally.

Or more under the radar. More under the radar. You're going to kick it off? Let's kick it off. We have Red Garland at number one of the second group. The best of the worst? No. No, I mean, Red Garland is, well, this actually, now that I'm looking,

this is kind of a cool list because this, we can almost call it like pianists, pianists. They're known and they've been on some big recordings, but if they actually were on Mount Rushmore, some people might be like, you know, but for any jazz pianists, they would, it's like kind of undisputed, you know, their value and their worth. So Red Garland, who was from Texas, did you know that? I did not know that. The Lone Star State.

That's awesome. Yeah. They produced many great jazz musicians, but for some reason, Texas, most of the jazz musicians that are from there, other people don't know that's where they're from. Like Philly jazz players, St. Louis, Chicago, for sure, New Orleans. Like Texas, I guess since it's so big and everything. But anyway, Red Garland, did you know he was a boxer? This can be a little tribute, too.

I did not know that. He was a boxer, and I believe he's the one. who got Miles interested in boxing when he was playing with it. I had no idea about that. Wow. It's a lot you don't know. I just thought he was a guy with pretty block chords and nice, beautiful bebop lines. Well, those are true, too.

So Red Garland has, yeah, block chords, introductions. What are the reasons he's on Mount Rushmore for you? I mean, it's all about his touch and feel, right? He has this little bloopy eighth-note feel that just feels awesome. And of course, like, you know, the famous block chords, the two-handed octave block chords that he does often. Red Garland's piano, that album. Oh, yeah, that's great. Prestige.

On Prestige, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, one of my favorites. Awesome. Yeah. So I'm going to continue on. My first pick here is Phineas Newborn Jr. I never knew he was Junior.

He's a junior, yeah, yeah. And there's a third, I think, who's an actor. Oh, well. Now, is it Phineas or Finis? Because I hear both from pretty reputable sources, I would have to say. You hear Finis? Yeah. I've always heard Phineas.

Really? Yeah. I've heard Finis from like some heavy New York cats. No, I feel a little weird. I mean, I say Phineas. Possibly, Phineas, possibly finest newborn. Finis is cool because it's got the connotation of the finest. The finest, yeah, yeah.

So, unbelievable pianist, a true. two-handed pianist, you know, famous for his octave lines, famous for some really hip block chord ideas that he had that were very unique and a truly unique sound. A player that you know within a few seconds who you're listening to. I mean, he's got that touch and those octave sounds. Love the records from the late 50s, early 60s, world of piano. Great. Oh, that's classic. Jazz piano, Phineas Newborn. I love a piano. have you transcribed any finest or finis newborn junior junior you know what i feel like i did i feel like i did when i was in high school but i don't remember what i the only thing i think

i've ever done is that it's solo on Cheryl on world of piano yeah and i don't think i learned the whole thing but i there's some there's some themes in there some lines in there that are so strong i still remember how they feel yeah you know like he he he's really a pianist pianist in that his stuff is very pianistic. Very pianistic. Underrated, would you say? This list, this may be. A little bit, yeah.

Well, it's the Little Mount Rushmore. It's the Little Mount Rushmore, yeah, yeah. So, okay, number three, I'm going to go with someone who is not necessarily underrated as an artist, but probably underrated as a pianist, and that is Nina Simone. Yeah. She started out as a pianist, you know, well before she was singing, at least professionally, from what I understand, from seeing the documentary that was recently released, the Netflix documentary, which is so wonderful.

But she's one of the most astute pianists that I've heard within the jazz world and blues and certainly R&B and what she went into, which really doesn't have a great definition, nor does it need a great definition. but her piano playing stayed so firmly rooted in this incredible touch and technique that she had developed from a very young age. Apparently she was a prodigy, you know, playing classical music, playing gospel music from a very young age, had an incredible ear. But, you know, really got some very good training from a young age just in terms of classical piano and really spent a lot of time you can tell from the technique that she developed and her abilities and her command of the instrument.

And, you know, it's just kind of one of those things where as things moved along, it kind of professionally took a backstage to her singing and her showmanship, which was wonderful. But just one of my favorite pianists just to sit and play at the instrument. Yeah, I mean, she became a bit of a star, you know, in her own right. And I think is an underrated pianist for sure, for all those reasons. All right, so number four, I'm going to go with Hank Jones. Hank Jones is an amazing pianist, another very pianistic pianist. And he uses the piano in such a unique way.

Talk about your own sound. You know, these kind of thick, blocky chords that he comps with really feels amazing. Great choices as a comper. Are we going back to comp? It's so easy to say once we've done it. But I want to go back and unpack what you just said. You said blocky cores. Now, is that difference than block chords?

Yeah, it is, right? Well, they sound heavy to me. Like there's blocks that he's dropping on the keys. You know what I mean? And it has to do with, I'm sure, how he structures his voicing. So there's a lot of clusters in his voicings, kind of in the middle or in the low range of it. You know, he uses a lot of rooted voicings,

even when he's playing with a bass player. You know, there's something that his pianists were taught, you know, some people are taught, oh, don't do that. But a lot of the greats do it a lot. and it gets a sound that you can't get without it. Yep. You know, there's just that interval between the root and the seventh of the root and the fifth, depending on how you're voicing it that you can't get.

I mean, I always think it shows a lot of confidence in a pianist when they play rooted voicing. And whenever I hear it, and it's usually a subtle thing that pianist, outside of pianists and bassists don't really notice it or think about it. Yeah. We have to think about it as pianists and bassist because that's the biggest potential for clashing. but I think it shows to me it's almost the equivalent of a bass player

that doesn't play the root every time at the beginning of the measure. You know, it shows confidence that the basses can hold it down, hold the harmony down, hold the root structure without playing the most obvious thing. And so for the pianist, it's like playing the root, it's sort of the inverse of it

in that it shows that I can go down and play the route, but I'm listening so well that I know that I'm either going to move off of it or it's going to fit it. I'm listening to the bass player on such an intuitive level that I'm I'm not forcing him or her anywhere, but I'm going to have this fit in. So a lot of times, and I'm thinking like Hank Jones, remembering now, he moves in and out of those rooted voicings really slickly, you know, to rootless voicing and stuff. Was a master of that.

Red Garland, same thing. Yes. You know, did this have the same technique of throwing in roots and rooted voicings. There's, you know, like we were saying, there's just a sound that you get with a rooted voicing. And, hey, listen, on, you know, in most situations, the piano, just the timbre of the piano, the timbre of the piano, the timbre of the. piano, the timber. Timber! The timbre of the piano that low, it's not going to compete with the bass. Right. You know what I mean? Unless you're going really, really low and you're playing very, very hard and heavy, you know, you're not going to get in the way of the base.

No. If you're just, if you can do it tastefully. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love doing it. And if you listen. As long as you do number one, listen. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Okay, next, what are we up to? One, two, that's four. We're moving right on down Mount Rushmore. Actually, we're passing the official limit on Mount Rushmore. Yeah, we're past Mount Rushmore. Did we figure out where Mount Rushmore was last? South Dakota. South Dakota. Right.

Thank you. So number five, I'm going to throw out a great, or throw in a great pianist Tommy Flanagan. Nice. Or as a gentleman who runs around St. Louis, great jazz fan, first described him as Tommy Flanagan many years ago. Finis, Phineas, Phineas, Flanagan. Now, Finis and Phineas, that's possible. Tommy Flanagan, I'm pretty sure that was just this one guy who calls him that. man have you heard Tommy Flanagan?

I was like, what? Are you stupid? So Tommy Flanagan, well, now I'm just, I'm looking, we're really stuck in this, like, late 50s kind of era. But that was a great piano era. I mean, it really was. It was a classic. Tommy Flanagan is probably, you know, I think we think of him as a little bit lighter touch than Hank Jones. But a very, you know, Tommy Flanagan is always, like, very tasteful.

Like his lines. He does some block cores, not as much as like Red Garland and Hank Jones, maybe. But like, whenever he did it, it was at the right time. Tommy Flannick, his comping is like always on point. He keeps everything like within his wheelhouse. When he does actually hard stuff, he makes it sound easy. Yeah. So it kind of comes across as understated in a lot of ways, I would say.

Yeah. But, I mean, just look at the recordings he's been on. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, saxophone colossus, giant steps. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's not an accident. Right. He's on that stuff.

And he knows how to, I mean, his comping. on Giant Steps was really interesting and masterful and like understated but you talk about just showing up to the session having to play that music I mean he was on point for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. Yep.

All right, so number six, I'm going to go with a pianist of that same era and that is Winton Kelly. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to call an audible here. I'm going to put Witton Kelly up at number six. I mean, what is there to say?

Obviously, you know, one of the great masters, Are we sure he's not on our original Mount Rushwater? He may be, you know? Yeah, we had trouble finding that list. We should have gone back and listened to that episode. He's one of our favorites, and he's one of the great pianists of that era, for sure. We may even call him the great Wynton Kelly. He's the great Wynton Kelly.

No, you know, famous for his work on Miles Davis's not just kind of blue, but, you know, that whole era of Miles Davis quintet that he was a part of, unbelievable pianists. Was that him on the Orange Live at Carnegie Hall? with Miles. I think it was. That's a great... It's either him or red garland, for sure. That's a great record.

I'm just kind of thinking of that. Can we put records on, I will do that another episode. And then his trio records. Yes. You know, also, so much to check out, so much good stuff. One of the most grooving musicians ever.

Yeah. Great sound, underrated technique, for sure. Yeah. It takes a lot of good technique to be able to sound the way he sounded. Well, and I think his technique was so specific to phrasing.

Like he had a great command. He's not necessarily seen as somebody that played with this huge range of technique. It's not like Oscar Peterson. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, in terms of like control of lines, like you never really got the feeling that he played something where he wasn't in total technical control of how it swung and how it felt, how the accents. Now, he created a lot of that. Yeah. But it was from a very organic phrasing standpoint.

And I would say that he's from a phrasing standpoint at the piano, he's probably the most. influential out of all these pianists of all the pianists today. You know, with kind of Herbie, Hancock and Chikorea, sort of the conduit, and of course he influenced, I mean, all these, you know, influences. And then Bill Evans, too, was a big conduit. But I mean, I would say, Winton Kelly, just the way he plays lines that, even if we had never listened to him, our whole generation, we would have got it through the generation in between. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so for number seven, now, okay, we really should have looked at that original list, man. Shame on us.

Mary Lou Williams, because I feel like she might have been on there too. I mean, Mary Lou Williams is just like, this is good. At least we're getting, we're not getting more modern, but at least we're getting out of the late 50s, although she was still playing then. Mary Lou Williams is just a giant of the music, and just due to our general sexism in this culture and in the world has never quite gotten her due.

But I think now there's a lot of great things happening, a lot more acknowledgement, and really just a lot more discovery. I know for myself, too, like I just didn't have access. to a lot of her recordings. I'd heard some of her stuff. But as I dug deeper, and that's one of the great things about, you know, the internet and music being online is that you can do these deep dives quicker. So, you know, I was lucky because my dad played me some of her music when I was real young. And I was like, oh, I always knew she could play.

Yeah. And but I was kind of in that era of like, oh, she plays old style. Then when I got into the old style, I was like, oh, wait, let me go back and hear her. Yeah, yeah. But just, I mean, masterful kind of technique along the lines of, you know, I mean, you hate to even say it's like Art Tatum, Oscar Peterson. but the really, you know, Nina Simone, like the real masters of the instrument. And then all the hip jazz stuff, the blues, all that kind of gospel, all that in there as well.

That's awesome. Well, there's our list of seven great jazz pianists that aren't on our Mount Rushmore. Although, we're not quite sure, but if they didn't. You know what? If they're on there twice, they deserve to be on there twice. Hey, listen, please leave us a rating and a review below if you like what you heard. And you can also go to you'll hear it.com to leave us a message and give us a message and give some ideas for lessons.

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