You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Key Facts About History & Origins Jazz - #104

Episode Date: May 13, 2018

In this episode, Peter and Adam list 7 key facts about the history of jazz. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Menace and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Today we're going to give you seven key facts about the history and origins of jazz. Seven? Can we do maybe like 21 sometime or like 57? Why are we always going to do seven, man? Well, this is actually from a user question who specifically asked for seven. So we've got an excuse now for doing seven.

Let's hear it. And this is going to be, yeah, this might get into one of our heavier episodes in a way because, you know, the histories and origins of jazz, we're not going to be able to do too much a joke. We'll find a way. So this is like a very special episode of Family Matters. Right. PBS. This is the NPR PBS kind of.

Okay. So let's listen to the question from our buddy, Mark, out in Western Canada, Vancouver. Hi, Peter and Adam. Thank you for answering my question about playing in all 12 keys. And Adam, you were correct. My accent is from Western Canada for Vancouver. And my second question is,

what are seven key facts people should know about the origins and the history of jazz music? Thanks. All right, thanks, Mark. That's a great question. And we have, I think, seven things that you could call key factors for the history of jazz. Beat, you want to kick it off? Yeah. Okay.

So I think the most important place to start is that the music originated in New Orleans. So that's the history and the origins of the music. And, you know, there's a lot of influences. And, you know, New Orleans was kind of the perfect place for this music to be birthed because, you know, it was like a very special place. And time is still a very special place. But especially kind of, you know, the period of the late 1800s to the early 1900s, you had a number of different cultures from around the world for that, you know, time period where travel was much more difficult. I mean, now you can say, well, you go to New York City in two blocks. lot of different people. But in terms of, especially in the deep south, you had a lot of different

kinds of people in one place. And there was a certain amount of exchange of cultural information. And there was also a certain amount of, it was one of the only places in the United States where African slaves were allowed at least a little bit to perform and to present some of the musical traditions and songs and cultural things that they had brought from Africa. That was stamped out in a lot of places. That's right. And look, we're not historians here, so I don't want to overstep. Like, that's about as much as I know about it.

But I've been to Congo Square, and I know a little bit about that history. And, you know, things were allowed to keep going. And those became really the pillars of which this music developed. So I think that that's kind of why it was in New Orleans. And, of course, the music has gone well and quickly went well beyond there. And there were certainly influences, you know, from St. Louis with the ragtime thing from Chicago, from the blues, from the Delta blues things. But there was a lot of things with the river boats being so important for transportation at the time

and goods and people and everything moving around. New Orleans was kind of geographically in a prime location. Yeah, it all starts with New Orleans. I mean, the term melting pot gets thrown around a lot, but that was truly a melting pot. And it still is. If you are a jazz fan and you've not been to New Orleans, you're not a fan, actually. We're stripping you of your fandom. That's right.

No, put it high on your list of your next places to go. It doesn't have to be during Jazz Fest or Mardi Gras or anything like that. Just go and experience a culture that is so steeped in this music that it just, you feel, as a fan, you feel so happy every second you're there and so connected with it. It's an amazing place. It's still is an amazing place. Yeah, I mean, it's like going to, you know, classical music, it's probably a little more complicated to isolate one place because it was earlier time when people could travel around. Yeah. If you go to Vienna, maybe.

Yeah. If you go to Vienna, I was just thinking of the feeling you're saying in New Orleans where you can go to, like, Louis Armstrong's house and go on Bourbon Street and all these different things, Rampart Street. Like in Vienna, you can go to where Beethoven worked on this symphony and Mozart. And actually, did Beethoven ever, was he in Vienna? I don't even know. I know Mozart was.

I think he was, yeah. But also, you know, for not a huge city, I mean, obviously the music scene down there is so killing. Like, there's so many great players that are just local cats down there that sound awesome. And everybody, we've talked about the sport, everybody down there feels amazing. They have this feel that is hard to get outside that city. People just even not, that aren't musicians, are very connected and knowledgeable about music. I mean, even kind of ignorant type people, like kind of really, there's a certain rhythm there that everybody gets. It's very unique.

Yeah, it's ingrained in the entire culture. It's really, really a special experience. Yep. So that brings us to number two. And this is seven key facts again about the history. music. And there's really no getting around this at all. This is one of the most important parts about this music and that this is a black American music. You know, when I've talked about this and, you know, sometimes delicate conversations, jazz is a music that, you know, the contributions of white musicians, of Hispanic musicians, of Asian American musicians, of all cultures, has added so much to this music, but there would be no jazz without African Americans. It's just how it is. This is, This is a black American music first.

It's been pioneered by some of the most amazing black American artists that have ever lived. And, you know, we all are lucky that we get to experience this music that came out of that place from those people. Yeah, and I think as much that goes along with that is it's from the Black American experience, the African American experience of a specific time in history that led up to something. And not just about, you know, I mean, it's very easy to say, well, the oppression of slavery led to these emotions and to the blues. And it's really not as simple as that, I don't think. But it would be more along the lines of the entire cultural experience of what it is to be an African-American person and how that relates to the greater, you know, goals of the United States and the imperfect nation and all these different things that are very interesting and complex. in 10 minutes, we definitely thank God we don't have time to get into it.

But I mean, just to say that the African-American experience without that, there would be no jazz. And so it's something that, you know, Nicholas Payton, who's been a friend of mine and colleague for many years, it is one of those musicians that I met early on in New Orleans that I'm so lucky and blessed and all that stuff

to be able to be around him and his music, but also like his intellect and understanding of this whole, you know, when he coined this, I don't know if he coined the BAM, black American music, but kind of putting it in the current context versus the name of jazz and it being kind of a better name really for what the music is. And there's a whole debate with that. But I mean, like he really has a very deep understanding of how this works.

And it's lived in, and he's from New Orleans, you know. So it's a very interesting thing. Yeah, I find it interesting how bristly people get around this topic. Like, are you kidding? I don't know why. Yeah, it's like it's so obvious. Well, and it's, you know why? Because it's just racism.

That's true. Because, I mean, no one has a problem with saying that classical music is European classical music, you know, or European, you know, whatever. And, I mean, ultimately these are all labels, but that's where the music came from. And, I mean, does that mean that only, you know, fair-skinned Europeans can play the music? Obviously not, because there's many that don't. And it's the same thing with jazz. So, I mean, it's just, you know, it's a silly thing. And once you understand and can play the music or can listen to the music.

And I, you know what, I think this is more of a player's problem. most people that listen, I've never heard like just your average fan or listener or something saying, is this black music or what? Like they don't really care. I mean, you know, if you think about any kind of music that you listen to, you don't, you know, even like with reggae or something, would somebody have a problem that they're like, this is music, Jamaican, African music or what I don't even know what they call it, but I mean, obviously it's from there and from that experience.

Yeah, yeah. Can you be from Vancouver and play it? Absolutely. I mean, you know, your listener doesn't have a problem with this. I don't know why we get caught up with that. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Okay, so that takes us to number four. And as far as key facts about the history and the origins,

and I would say just the current state of jazz. And I would say that, you know, the outsized role that women have played in the development and origin of this music is actually a key fact. And it's a key fact that's gotten, you know, incorrectly reported. And we need to do a lot more work on really fixing this. Women from the very beginning have been instrumental in this music. And I think that, you know, if you look at the history books and the musicians, I think we need to do more as players to educate the listeners. Because the listeners only know kind of what we see in, you know, what comes out in terms of recordings, what composers, what artists, you know, that we celebrate and stuff.

But a lot more needs to be done and not just to try to make up for past demands, but because there's so much great music that's being overlooked, really. And it's the same thing. Just like with the racism that's prevalent, there's the sexism where it's just assumed that only, you're not. men can do this and it's just not the case and i'm not just talking about singers which is one area that the women probably have gotten their due but i mean you know pianists i mean just just mary lou williams alone the impact that she's made on this music you know and and the other great pianists that came after her and stuff needs to be celebrated and it is it's starting to be done which is great yeah it's a very important thing yep that takes us to number four and that number five number five yeah have we already

got the number five i think so one two three four yep i think you skip do do we do we do improv-based music yet? Because that's what I'm about to do. Oh, no, we didn't. Oh, I'm jumping out. Jump in there. So number four. It's seven key facts, man, not six. Trying to skip ahead. Well, our number four is that jazz is an improv-based music. This is a fact that can't be stressed enough. This is a music that is a music that is a music that's very, very unique. And, you know, it probably couldn't have happened and caught on before the invention of the record, of recordings, because there's no way to pass it down until you can record it and then, you know, it gets to a mass audience. That's what probably, you know, apparently,

like, there were some classical musicians who were great improvisers or folk musicians who were great improvisers before the advent of, you know, recording, audio recording. But you would never know. Well, I think we screwed up here. So I got to add in a 4.5 then because I think that just, well, another key fact I'm thinking to add in. Okay, okay. Would be the the huge influence that improvisation, I mean that recordings had on the rapid development of this music. That's true. You know, and that was another kind of timing thing.

It could only happen because of the timing of when it was and the advent of recording stuff. But that's okay. We slipped it in there. So now we're definitely on number. You slipped it in it. Well, we're definitely on number. number five now, right? Yeah, this is number five. Okay, so key fact, this music started out as dance music, pure and simple, right? That is the fact that needs to be iterated a little bit more.

I think we could say hashtag fact. And it's still a big part of the music, and some would say now I'm going to get more into opinion than fact, but that the further we stray from those origins, the more disconnect we have with what this music of jazz actually is. But that's That's definitely where it started. I mean, it was danced to. So that implied, it didn't imply it necessitated a certain rhythmic feel and groove that would always have to be there. And I think that it's still there.

I mean, it's fine that it's changed and added in different grooves. But I, you know, not to be a snob. That was the last episode. But I think that if you lose any kind of sense of groove or danceability on some level, you're really losing, you better not lose it for long, you know, because you're going to lose your connection with the music in the audience. Yeah, I just feel like it's a shame if you don't have that. because it's such a great thing that this music can do that not all music can do.

And that's to have that rhythmic element, that dance within the music even. I mean, it's so great. That's a very good one. So this takes us to number six. And this kind of goes hand in hand with the improv-based one, but it's a little bit different. And that's that this music is passed on orally. Not orally, orally. Right, right.

It's passed on from player to listener. It's not so much passed on by notation, by writing it out. I mean, it has been for sure. Yeah. That's a small part of it. It's a very, very small part of it. The tradition of this music is that it's been handed down from a player who plays something for someone, and that someone learns it by ear, and then the tradition continues.

I think it's a huge part of music, actually. And I think that it's how it's developed and the way it's developed. It wouldn't be the same if it had been really. written out from the get-go. Well, and it ties in what we talked about on 4.5 in that the advent of the recording technology and the information orally being able to be passed around even not in real time, you know, asynchronous, asynchronously, you know. So that was such a big part of how it started to be passed along.

So you look at classical music, had there been recordings at that time, it would have been probably passed around more by sound, but the written page became so important. because that's the only way you could get it to another country or something. And I think that the part of this of what you're bringing up here is this of this key fact is also being passed from musician to musician on the live gig. You're hearing something. You're imitating. You're influenced by that sound in terms of the improvisation or the stylistic elements. And I'm thinking in particular about how you'd have the Texas tenor sound and stuff.

And you had to hear that pretty much live to really get in on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that brings us to number seven. Sweet. Okay. Now we finally got our numbers straight. At least we're ending, if you don't know where you're coming from, how do you know where you're going? I like this one. This has been a good one. We've taken like some hard lines on things. That's right. I mean, key facts, right?

Key facts. Mark asked for it. So this is that now jazz music is international music. I know we started saying it was the origins were New Orleans and that it's African American, black American music, and that is the origins. But I would say now, you know, my opinion on this is that any kind of art form, Once it elevates to a certain level, it becomes the world's, the world owns it. All the people in the world. All of humanity owns it, as it should.

You know, nobody owns it anymore when something becomes great. And that's the beauty. And I think that where any kind of art can really elevate humanity in such a very special way and why people are attracted to. And look, it's not about jazz is the greatest ever. No, this is just another great side of humans. I mean, it's very easy for us to look at low points. in humans and movements and things like that.

But it's fun to look at some high points, and you look at most everything, if not everything, related around jazz. Actually, the music elevates people. I mean, it puts a smile on people's face. You know, you dance to it. It, you know, it makes people, I believe it elongates people's lives

because they're happy to hear it they live for it. You know, I mean, this is, if you get into it. So what happens is it's something so great. I mean, I don't think it's that different than like, you know, Italian food, you know, We look at spaghetti or something that, you know, everyone can learn how to do it. And some are like, no one can do it like you can do it there. Right.

But you can. And, I mean, I think the Italians are so great because they, you know, they've created this amazing culture. I mean, not just spaghetti. Obviously, there's opera, architecture, you know, astronomy, you know. That's certainly a bastion of culture there. But, I mean, Italians have never been ones to, like, try to keep it within their borders. So the whole world owns it, which is a beautiful thing. And it's the same thing which has.

And we've talked about this before, that it's. It's just, you know, it's this magical form that was created in this, you know, fortunate time and this fortunate place by these people who were geniuses at creating this form and this rhythm and this feel and these, you know, sounds. And we're very lucky to have it. And now you're right. It's gone worldwide. As anything good will. Yeah.

So you see that with the audiences are really truly worldwide. You see that with the musicians and the level of great jazz musicians all around the world. And then even if you add on to that, I mean, you still have, like New York City is still the center of jazz in terms of players. And then you have a lot of other places, obviously, that bring people in. But because of New York being just so outsized like it is for many things, that sucks off a lot of the really good players for around the world. So sometimes people will be like, oh, well, you know, in such and such, in this part of Spain, there's not that many good players. players. Well, there are also a bunch of them are in New York. We have that same problem. In St. Louis, you know, a lot of the good players, you go to where the work is, you go to where the other

musicians is. But now you're seeing, you know, a nice infrastructure really around the world. It's pretty amazing. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, thanks again, Mark, for your two questions. Keep them coming. This is really fun. That's right. And, you know, if you have any other questions, you'll hear it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the You'll Hear It podcast. You can go to you'll hear it.com to get more information, submit a question, or just say hello. Wait, you can do that? Absolutely. All right, and if you like what you heard, please leave a review and a rating below.

Thanks.