You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Things NOT To Do When You're Playing Fast - #144

Episode Date: June 27, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam list 7 things not to do when you're playing fast. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Manus. And this is the You'll Hear at podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you. We're coming at him like a freight train of eighth notes. Just like an endless stream of amazing language. That's right. You wake up, you're like, dang, we know it's coming.

Unless it's Saturday or Sunday. Yeah, not anymore. We don't do the weekends anymore. So we're still having fun, doing our thing. Today, what are we talking about, Adam? Today we're talking about seven things not to do whilst you're playing fast. I love it when we go negative because we don't really go dark. Well, we do go dark sometimes.

But this, just because we're going negative doesn't mean we're going dark in this instance. No, in fact, there's a lot to be learned by saying what not to do. Exactly. Our buddy Christian McBride did this whole two-minute video on how what to not to do in order to get a good sound, which is like a negative positive. I know. But it was super popular because it's like nobody wants to look foolish. No. You know what I mean?

So sometimes it's important to be like, oh, I have all these options of what to do. but tell me what to cut out here. Yeah, and sometimes, I think for a lot of us, especially as you get into the more kind of intermediate advanced zones of your jazz playing, sometimes the key to improving is taking away some things that don't need to be there. And hopefully that's what we can help folks with today on this particular subject. But just in general, always think about that. If you're kind of stuck in a rut or something, and it's always like,

oh, I've got to add this, I've got to get better at this. Sometimes you just need to relax, simplify a little bit of a theme around the open studio offices this week, but maybe take some things away, get some clarity on a nice little jewel that's there that's being obscured by some BS all around it. That's right. You know, we're telling you some do's and don'ts. These are the don'ts. These are the don'ts. So let's talk about some things not to do when you're playing fast. Why don't you kick it off with your first don't. Okay, don't play a wall of notes. That's good advice. Yeah. And so that is just, you know, a wall of notes is just basically too many. They're disorganized.

and they're just coming at you from every different direction. And there's, you know, I think what we think that we're able to sort of delineate through a wall of notes actually doesn't end up happening. Even if you're playing great notes and in perfect time and you're keeping up the tempo and everything, because it's just like a barrage of machine gunfire of which the listener can't make any sense out of it. And you're going to get tired and you're going to probably screw up the time and you're going to annoy the people you're playing with. Other than that, it's a great idea. Yeah, I think especially for pianists who we don't have to breathe.

This is a great A way to hurt yourself as you're playing fast. Physically. To physically get to the point where you can't play anymore in a solo within a couple courses. Could it lead to, has it been scientifically proven that playing a wall of nose fast leads to carpal tunnel? Yes. We're not doctors, though. Yes, no, but we're saying that's true. I have no idea if that's true, but probably.

But no, so there's actually something actionable you can do to practice this. And that is to practice when you practice fast, practice space, practice letting the changes go. practice like rhythm changes, something where there's a lot of changes happening and practice like leaving out four or five, six bars, but like a lot of space so that you're still feeling the changes go by and you're not losing that sense of where you are in the form of the time, but you don't feel like you have to mark every change with eighth notes. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think intermediate players especially players who can play fast eighth notes but aren't really playing much, you know what I mean? They get in this habit of just like,

just marking every change and it just never ends and then it's like they tuck themselves out it gets really tight. There's no musical stuff happening at all. It doesn't need to happen. But you have to practice that because fast tunes the hardest part isn't the physical part. It's the mental game. Yeah. It's like keeping your place in it,

getting ideas, not feeling overwhelmed, practice that space. Yep, absolutely. Like it. What you got for number two? So number two, I got And this kind of goes along with this, but that's, don't forget to phrase in a musical way. It has a little bit to do with the space thing, but it's really more about the shape of your lines. You know, don't start, I like to call it the typewriter sound. I mean, it's a good sound, but don't forget to keep music in mind. It's a good sound if it's like a, you know, a movie about the Washington Post in the 1970s.

It's a great sound. It's very atmospheric. It's a very. It's a very. No, but you know what I'm talking about? Like, the shape of your lines still matter. So you're saying even when you're playing fast We're still supposed to be playing musically

I know that doesn't go out on a limb on that That seems counterintuitive But it is true No I mean I have a old friend named Dan Eubanks who plays Bluegrass bass actually now And I remember him saying just like Man over 350 like the most challenging part

Isn't playing that fast but it's it's playing music Right you know Well and I'm just thinking tying in with number one The Wall of Notes some people might be saying Well hold on a second I've heard so like we mentioned Christian McBride before he plays a lot of notes very fast because he can, but he plays it in such a musical way

that he can get away with all those notes. Well, in his course where he talks about playing fast, he's like, it's all about the idea first. Don't play anything unless you have an idea. Chris McBride, he's got loads of ideas. Plus, I mean, he's a bass player, and I think for bassists, you know, they're so used to walking bass lines

where you are playing every note. So if you're playing very fast, like the way, and folks can, if you go check out, There's a great trio thing of Cherokee. And it's mainly because I'm actually playing on it, but you can barely see me and I barely play. It's all about like Christian McBride and Ulysses-Zohens, as it should be.

And it's sort of from the side of the stage. But if you Google Cherokee and Christian McBride on YouTube, you'll see it. But if you listen to the way that Christian walks those lines at that tempo, it's so musical and so melodic. So he's playing every corner-knit because you kind of have to as a basis. You have to play a wall of notes. But he puts it together in such a musical way. so relaxed, it's just brilliant.

Yeah, as always, music comes first. Yep. Okay, number three on our don'ts when you're playing fast, and that is to get tight. Don't get tight. Don't get tight. Right, sorry. Ooh, don't, don't get tight. Yeah.

Yeah. Now this is, now this can be kind of cause or effect. Yeah. If you do some, if you do do some of these other don'ts that we're saying, you're going to get tight. But there's also all the bad things that can happen just from the very tension yourself. And so you mentioned before it being more of a mental than a physical game. This is when I believe that your body starts to manifest what's happening mentally as opposed to the other way around.

I totally agree. It's possible it happens the other way too. But to me, the experience is more once you start to understand this for most people is that, you know, it's the whole thing of if there's a difficult task or difficult discussion you have to have with a family member or something, you know, just the thought of it is so bad and you get so tense. but once you actually put it out there and just breathe and stuff, you're like, okay, it's not so bad. And so if you can kind of go into the fast situations without that tension, I mean, things may happen that cause you to be tense, but at least you're starting from that place of you're not tight.

So you're giving yourself an opportunity, hopefully for the good things that you practiced and that you worked up and worked on, you know, the musical things and leaving space and getting the tempo correct and all that stuff, you'll have a chance for that to come out because the problem is if you get tension because of your mental attitude, if you're nervous and the audience and you're looking around on the stage, oh, I can't do this. And you actually can, the tension that you bring that's

manifested physically from your bad mental state is going to keep you from doing any of the things that you probably could do. You're going to freeze. That's right. You've got to keep breathing, you got to stay relaxed. And you can practice that too. You know, when you practice, practice staying as relaxed as possible when you play fast. That kind of leads us into number four, which is don't always play as loudly as you can. I think... So you're saying, so you're not saying to always play as loud as you can. I'm saying don't always play loudly. So sometimes play less than Fortissimo?

I think most of the time play less than. Really? Yeah, I think this is also kind of a rookie mistake, right? You think fast and intense means loud. It does not. No. Your close friend and amazing drummer, Gregory Hutchinson, I've seen them play insanely fast tempos at a whisper.

Yeah. And it sounds awesome. And it sounds intense. and at a certain point it actually becomes your advantage, right? Like if you have to play super fast and super loud, that's physically demanding. It's hard to stay relaxed.

You're going to get tight. All these things we've just talked about. Right. You know, so stay relaxed and stay quieter than you think you need to be. You know, nothing has to be banging as hard as you can all the time, especially at fast tempos.

Right. No, I like it. And I've seen that manifested, you know, the positive of this. of folks that don't do this, especially drummers, the more dynamic instruments where you really can hit a volume

and drive a band. But, you know, in avoiding doing that, the great part about it too is then you have the ability when you do play for one beat or one measure or there's some musical reason to play loud, it comes out sounding so dramatic then

because you're not stuck there. You've got that in your back pocket to be able to pull out at any time. Yeah. Be Brian Blaine. Be Brian. Exactly. Exactly.

Oh, my turn. Sorry. Number five. Don't lose the groove, man. Oh, sorry. Oh, that's a good idea. Thanks. Don't lose the groove.

Yeah, number five, don't lose the groove. So just because you're playing fast and you may think that a certain, you know, looseness with the tempo and the groove won't be as noticed as much. It doesn't give you an excuse not to do that. So, but the tough thing about this is it's actually true. Like when you play fast, you can get away with skirting around the groove a little bit more. but the really good players don't do this because they're bringing those same habits of when you're playing slow medium it doesn't matter the temple the same attention to detail is there because what happens

is you actually get that sense of groove and attention and respect for the groove ingrained in you so much that any temple that you can play you still want to feel that and you still want to demand that of yourself you even though you can do like you can get away with something it's just like having a discussion with somebody yeah you know if if you're talking fast you can throw in some big words somebody said something the other day with like a mispronunciation. And if you throw it out there quick, you can get away with it. Maybe. Yeah.

Well, they didn't say it fast enough. That was the problem. But I mean, you know, if somebody comes in real fast, hey, what's up? It was probably me. No, no, no. It was. But, I mean, fast-talking people, and then you realize after they leave, you're like, wow, they didn't really say anything that old time.

Didn't say anything. Yeah, yeah. But if you're speaking slowly, every word, every enunciation matters. You know, and the same thing when you're playing, I mean, if you're playing a slow blues, quarter-nose strike right here, boo. Booty, go do, bang, bing, you know, bass or whatever. Like, if you're not right in that groove, everyone's going to know it. And you have to have that sort of precision.

So when you play fast, bring that same level of precision. I mean, it's great to have in your back pocket knowing that if you get off a little bit, it probably won't be noticed, but still aim high. And it actually sounds really good on a fast tune to sort of lay in the pocket for a while. Not doing a lot, but just keeping the groove going. You know what I mean? Well, that's the key. the group going.

I think that's... Because if you lay back and the groove is going, when you come in, you're going to have that attention to the groove even from when you weren't playing. You ever notice, intermediate players or amateur players, when they play fast, they kind of avoid the one, which is like the one thing you should be, like, banking on. You know what I mean? Like, don't sleep on just hitting on the one of a phrase. Like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Like, those things can be super-powerful. Right. Well, we just heard that story about that Jeff Kieser told it in his new chorus. When we were producing over the weekend, he said when he played with Dizzy Gillespie, wasn't that Dizzy? Yeah, yeah. When he was like 18 years old and he kind of smart guy that Kieser is, is he asked him, you know, how do you play fast? How do you play at these incredible temples and still swinging and in the groove? And Disney told him he said, I don't feel every beat. I don't even feel two and four.

I feel the downbeat of every measure. You know, one. One. Totally. Boom. Ding ding ding ding ding. Yeah. And, you know, I remember hearing that from another source, and that was so liberating to me because they just gave it more space.

You had to have a little bit more, you know, attention to number five that don't lose the groove because you got more space going by. But it just, it pulled back on that tension and everything. I think it's super important. It gets magnified the faster you go. Right. So keep at it. Keep on that one. That brings us to number six, which is don't forget to tell your story.

You know, you still have a solo to shape here, just because it's a fast tempo and just because. you can play a fast tempo, doesn't mean you need to like blaze out the gate. I think it kind of goes back to the play a wall of notes thing, number one. But this is more about... That's the quickest way to not tell a story is the wall in those. Exactly. Unless that's part of your story.

I don't want to hear it. No, but, you know, make sure to shape it like you would in the other story. A solo blues is a great example because you can't get away with not telling a story on a slow blues, but it's the same thing at the other extreme. You know, you have to tell your story. It's going to be so much appreciated.

I remember you said, told me once, it's like super fast tunes are great opportunity to like, like hang out and groove for a little bit on some, some like rhythmic stuff, not playing a lot, and then throw in a couple of like fast runs, right? And then like, everybody's with you. Yep. And you don't wear yourself out and you've told the story. Yeah, and I actually think this is harder to do and maybe a little less intuitive at tempo, at fast tempos, than what we were even saying, like, lose the groove.

Like, that's not as noticeable if you do. We're not recommending it, but there's so much going on. But, like, telling your story, as opposed to a slower tempo, when you've got a little bit more exposure, if you tell a good story, it's very easy to make it clear to the listener because they have time to absorb it. You kind of chill. At the fast tempo, it's very easy to get sucked up into this thing of just playing,

even if you're playing well, but not having that overall shape. And then the solo's over quicker normally too. So I think you have to craft it, be being a little bit more careful about crafting your story when you're at, putting more thought into it at least when you're at these fast temples. It's true. Yep. So for number seven, I'm going to try to kind of pull all these things together because this is our last one of our don'ts, things not to do when you're playing fast. Is it don't play fast? Because I thought that's.

Yeah. No, this is don't link, link the dynamics, the speed and the groove. Now, what do I mean by this, Adam? Would you like to ask me? Well, it's a simple. It's a simple idea of here. What you do is you don't, I have no idea what you're talking about.

No, I'm saying, do you want to ask me. I was trying to set it up for you to say. Oh, sorry. No, I totally know. All you got to do is say, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

Okay, well, by this I mean, drop that ball. Man, are you gone already? The episode's done for Adam. It's been a long day, man. Come on. No, so what I mean is, don't link, well,

let's take dynamics and temple first. to me at any style of music people that link the dynamics and the speed that's very amateur like that's you're not even really professional level yet and you know I don't get that dogmatic about this because I don't think of amateur and pro but like to me this is like 101 pro level

you don't have to be the greatest player but like in other words when you start to play soft like into your point of don't always play loud so when you do play soft don't slow down because there's no link between the tempo is linked to the groove, but it's not linked to the dynamics. So I don't know who started it.

I mean, there's a lot of drummers. Drummers, I'm calling you guys out. And look, I know a lot of you are big. Please don't come and kick my butt. I love y'all, but I'm calling y'all out. Don't slow down just because you're getting softer. Because that's just, I mean, that's lazy, really. You have to pay attention to your crap.

I mean, don't slow down ever. Don't slow down ever, but definitely don't do it. To me, it just gives the music such a weird amateur kind of thing. And, you know, classical music, sometimes, this is a problem, like stretching out the phrases when you're getting softer and stuff. Now, if there's a musical reason to do it, do it, but not just because you're getting softer. And so you have to pay attention because when you're at tempo to keep that groove and to not lose the groove, you have to that.

Now, I'm not talking about little fluctuations. I don't have, I don't care anything about that. You're talking about noticeably, like, leaning back on it. And just the linking of it because then it just, it just kills the flow of it. It messes up your, you know, the whole thing. I think it's great. Yeah. Well, thanks very much for listening.

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