You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - 7 Ways To Defend Jazz Without Sounding Snobby - #103

Episode Date: May 12, 2018

Today, Adam and Peter discuss ways to defend jazz to someone who's not a fan. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Menace and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Today we're going to give you seven ways to defend jazz without sounding snobby. I don't think this is possible. And I think that's okay, actually. Well, we'll try. We'll try. I mean, I don't think we sound too snobby on this, this hear your podcast.

Speak for yourself. Sorry, that was a horrible attempt that sounding snobby. I just sounded kind of fat. Well, fat and snobbery are connected, you know. Old school. Old school snobby. That's great. Yeah.

So this is a question from Mark in Vancouver. Yes, that's right. So let's take a listen. Hi, Peter and Adam. Thank you for answering my question about playing in all 12 keys. And Adam, you were correct. My accent is from Western Canada for Vancouver. I have a couple more questions.

When somebody says they hate jazz, what are seven ways to defend jazz without sounding snobby? Thanks. Oh, nice. a two-parters. So, all right, we'll tackle the first part today, since that's what we said we were going to do. That's right. And thanks, Mark, those great, great questions. And hello, up to Western Canada. Totally glad I was right about that, by the way. That was awesome, man. And that's, geez, that's one of my most favorite, loveliest places in North America or anywhere. What a beautiful place. Okay, so seven ways to defend jazz without sounding snobby. Let's go with

number one. Number one is, is, listen. Because it all. always is. No, but this really is. Well, it's listen and play. It's a two-parter, right? That's right. So we're going to have you defend jazz by just putting on a great record, and we're not going to have you put on the most complex or snobby sounding recording, because that would be counterintuitive to what we're trying to get accomplished here. But we're going to recommend a record that we've talked about a lot on here, which is kind of blue. I think that especially, well, really, you could play anything from that recording and just say, soak in the vibe, feel the vibe, you know.

It's not about like you got to do your homework before you hear this. I think, you know, anybody, I mean, at a minimum is kind of background music. It's very pleasant. I mean, it's, at a minimum, it's like a nice coat of paint on the wall that you shouldn't have to be a snob to defend, right? Yeah, and Mark, you could actually use this test as a test of who is qualified to be your friend. If they don't like Kind of Blue, they might not have a play. Well, hold on.

You're not, you're not. I know. See, that's what I'm saying. It's really hard. No, but actually you could, it could be kind of blue, and I think that should be the number one choice because it's so palatable to most people. Yeah. But, you know, you can also feel out the person, Mark, and suggest recordings that you think due to their personality that they'd be into. You know, a lot of people get into jazz through people like Billy Holiday or vocalists, Frank Sinatra, for instance.

Right. I'm going to go off script here because you didn't want me to do this, but I was going to say Kenny G or some smooth jazz, and we said kind of blue. but if you think about it, I mean, if you really don't want to sound snobby, you're going to go straight, smooth jazz. Go mainstream. It depends on the person. I think it depends on the person. Some people will really dig that stuff.

And then, although I would say, you know, David Sandborn over Kenny G. But that's just me. That's true. That's true. So you're kind of a snob even in the subgenres, aren't you? Same. Hey, man. Sam, man. Sam. Okay, so number two, this is also about listening.

And this is really, so, I mean, we talk about, you're asking about ways to defend jazz. It's always best to have it connected with the music. Because as soon as you start just talking about it and not actually playing the music or going to hear it or something, it's sounding snobby. You know, because it's music just to be listened to, to dance to, to feel. It's like talking about food, right? You can't talk about food and how good something is

without sounding a little pretentious. Right. But when you take someone to eat somewhere, food speaks for itself. Exactly. And the music should too. So I think this probably should be number one, take them to a live performance

because I don't think there's anything more that can sway people to enjoy. something than seeing it live. I mean, jazz is something that happens live and is different every time. And just the fact that you can be in a room with other people and experience something amazing, that always leaves a huge mark.

You know, I had kind of the opposite thing, actually. I remember, like, I only listened to jazz for the longest, longest time. And then a long time ago, I was in New York and a girl that I was dating, we went to a flaming lips concert, this kind of like hipster indie band. At the time, it was really indie.

And I mean, I just like fell in love with experience and bought all their records and I would not have had that connection with that music, had it wouldn't been for that had it wouldn't been for that, had it wouldn't be. Now you're finally not sounding like a snob anymore. But when you went into that Flaming Lips concert, you were transformed. But did you go in with like your Bluno Thelonious Monk T-shirt? Yeah, I went in ready to hate it and I left like a total convert. Yeah. And just like ready to follow the band to it. I mean, that's, you know, you know, transformed. But did you go in with like your Bluno Thelonious Monk T-Sure? Yeah, I went in ready to hate it. I mean, that's, That's how much I enjoyed it. Oh, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Well, and it's just kind of a little side story. It reminds me, you know, talking about too much talking, not enough, listening to the music. I remember this great story about Jimmy Smith, fantastic organist legend. And, oh, that's actually not a good way to sound.

Not snobby when you call people legends. The great. The great Jimmy Smith. He did a record for Verve. And actually, I know some people that were in this meeting. there was like a marketing meeting where they're going to all just this is actually a cool thing I don't know if anyone does this anymore record labels used to have their marketing department coming in here the finish mastered recording and just sit and listen to the whole thing oh my god you know and then

then they kind of free ball different ideas about it you know like no it's time for that anymore it'd be like we have 30 second highlight and email it over to me but then you know you'd sort of talk it through and see if you come up with different angles for how you're going to sell the recording wow but apparently this record was so good and just like swinging they finished it and everyone was just sitting there and someone said, damn. That's what they called it. And that was the name of the record.

And some of some like senior level marketer was like, that's it, you're a genius. Promote him, Jorgensen. That's right. Yeah, sometimes you have to hear it. I mean, you'll hear it if all else fails. So number three.

So number three, this is, and this might be a little bit different for you, Mark. This is appeal to national pride. Now, it's easy for us down here in the States because so many jazz editions happen to be down here from America. But don't sleep on your Canadian jazz heroes. I mean, the two that come to mind off the bat are Oscar Peterson and Seamus Blake. But I'm sure you have many more that I'm just spacing on right now.

And they both. Diana Crawl. Diana Crawl. Like the people that have helped shape this music who are from your area of the world, I mean, that's a huge, huge thing. And, you know, if you're listening to this and you're from America, you know, it's really part of American fabric. It's also part of North American fabric.

It's part of the fabric of the Canadian culture as well. And there's definitely other players we're not thinking of, just like anything. Like, it's always surprising how many Canadian, I mean, I just saw something about Jim Carrey. Yeah, I totally forgotten he was from Canada. They're everywhere. Yeah, you guys are slipping in like aliens. You're looking just like us. But I think that this might not be politically correct, but another, I mean, a way that you could defend,

you could use this angle maybe to defend jazz, perhaps. perhaps with some of the crowd, you know, the whole love it or leave it crowd, maybe with this sense of nationalism, you know. But that's, that's for another episode. Yeah, yeah. No, if someone's like super Canadian, remind them that probably the greatest jazz pianist, one of the top jazz pianists ever, Oscar Peterson, is from Montreal. Yeah, so they can be like, well, I hate jazz. Well, do you, so you're saying you hate Canada is what you're saying. Exactly, that's right. Number four. So this is the concept of, of the music is very democratic or what was your great word.

Egalitarian. Egalitarian, right. And the music is, you know, there's not as much of a barrier for entry in terms of your class or race or social status. Certainly you have to be a good player. It's based upon that. But it's also both within how the bands are constructed and the actual performances, a very democratic music. You know, a very, everyone gets to speak their mind. It's not like, oh, you're in the first violin.

you do this and you can't you're not allowed to do that everybody gets the chance to solo everybody's equal in a lot of ways i mean even when you talk i mean oscar peterson's on our mind now the oscar peterson trio sounds you know very undemocratic the name but that way they actually played the amount that they solo you know ray brown and herb ellis and and and and thick pen and stuff i mean it was very much a shared democratic experience yeah that's right this is a music from the people for the people you know this is something that uh you know you can you can make the argument you can you can Oh, popular music, that's all just a bunch of record executives, putting beautiful people in front of you. You know, I don't think that's necessarily always true.

Some of them are ugly. But you could make that argument. And then jazz is underground, and always has been. Underground, it's done for the people, true artists who are doing it for the love of it. You know, this is not music that was developed in, you know, the classical tradition where it's like, you know, a royal court, you know, keeps a composer well-fed. So that-todons. This was, this music was birthed out of brothels and bars and seedy places and still remains quite underground today. And I think that's a very alluring quality.

Dude, you don't sound snobby at all anymore. I take it all back, man. Brothels and births from there. That's great, man. No, it is. I mean, it's music from the streets. Totally. It really is.

I mean, it is literally born out of the streets of New Orleans street beats and all this thing. And, I mean, it has these other elements for sure, you know, classical music, especially with the instruments, you know. But the vibe and the spirit of the music I've always thought was very much from the African influence that was in New Orleans, certainly St. Louis, the rack. I mean, look, there's a lot of influences and, you know, we don't have time to go into our qualified discourse on this subject. But I mean, certainly the spirit of the music is not snobby at all. And so I've actually, I'm very much against this whole trend of trying to put, you know, jazz music into a museum or into classical hall. I mean, I don't mind playing those halls. That can be fun, but to have to force it in, like where you change the music and you try to put on airs and all that.

I'm not down with that. This doesn't fit, doesn't it? Let's see. So we're on number five. Number five. This one is all about the different types of people around the world that play this music. We've talked about this at great length on this podcast about how you can go to pretty much any continent. And there are jazz musicians there.

There are people that play this music and get together and perform it and that love it and collect records, and they are everywhere. It is a language that has transcended borders, and I think that's a very powerful reason to love this music. Yeah, and it's not only different places geographically around the world, but different kinds of people in all those different places. And the music is the bridge. And I always think, like, how snobby could something be if everybody, all different types of people want to attack? attached to it, you know, not just rich people are poor, middle, or this race, or that or whatever, people that just, you know, are thoughtful and want to, want to turn an ear in. Am I sounding snobby? Sorry, we got to be careful, man.

It's for everybody, but only people that want to listen, you know? Yeah, that's right. No, it does reward listening, though. Yeah. That's one of the things about anything good is the more you put into it, the more you should get out of it. Right. And I think jazz has a very high degree of that. So that takes us to number six.

is the influence of jazz. This is a great angle you can use, Mark, show jazz as influence on other kinds of music. And I think that that shows a very non-snobby direction. And we don't want to beat up on classical music because classical music is not always snobby and should not be defended in a snobby way. It just kind of comes to mind there. And certainly there's a lot of influence of jazz on the classical. Yeah, hey, but when we're defending something, sometimes you've got to take another thing down. Exactly. But, you know, if we think about all the great pop music that's been directly influenced by jazz in such wonderful ways,

and that coming from the foundation, you know, like a Stevie Wonder, I'm thinking, Michael Jackson for sure with his, you know, with his influence from Quincy Jones. And these great jazz musicians that were kind of the bridge between the blues, R&B jazz, and pop worlds. I mean, and that could lead you all the way to Kendrick Lamar. You know, like there's no Kendrick Marr's second to last album without. a heavy jazz influence. And, you know, Mark, where you're at, National Heroes, you got rush. And there's no rush without jazz.

That's like essentially a jazz group playing with rock instruments. Exit stage left. What? Yeah. So you can use this as, I think, a tool to defend the music, too, that its influence on music that someone may like more is completely valid. Yeah. And so that takes us to number seven.

And, you know, we love kind of taking a big left term when we get to number seven. And this is going to be, it's actually okay to be snobby. So after you've defended... I prefer it. After you've really just sucked it all up and said, for one through six, defended jazz without sounding snobby, now just go full snobbery. That's right. Just talking about how much better it is than anything else, how much harder it is to play.

Oh, you don't like it? You must not be a soulful person. Exactly, yeah. Get really bad with it. Yeah, you hate good things. You hate great things. I guess you don't like it. things that sound good. That's cool. Yeah, you can just go all out snobby. It's okay to be snobby

every now and then. I actually think it is all right to be snobby. All right, cool. Well, we hope we helped a little bit with that, Mark. Thank you so much for the question. And maybe tomorrow we'll hit your other question. How about that? Let's do it. So come back and you'll hear it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the You'll Hear It podcast. You can go to you'll hear it.com to get more information, submit a question, or just say hello. You can do that. Absolutely. All right, and if you like what you heard, please leave a review and a rating below. Thanks.