You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Advanced Use of the Altered Scale

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

How can you alter your playing to sound even more dramatic? With the altered scale, of course! Peter and Adam tell you what it is and how to use it.There's a new course from Open Studio: Elements of Solo Piano! Learn from modern jazz master Geoffrey Keezer as he shows you the strategies and techniques to become a better solo pianist. You'll also get Guided Practice Sessions featuring Adam Maness, where he walks you through how to practice each lesson in the course. And for even more piano courses, sign up for the Piano Access Pass.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Did I win? I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hearer Podcast. Daily music advice. Coming at you. Coming at you in an altered state today. Altered state.

I mean, why are we in an altered state? Well, yes, we have been using drugs. No, I'm just kidding. No, we are. What the kids. Oh, right, right. The kids, the kids. Respect the kids.

Your kids. We're in an altered state because we're talking about the altered scale. We are talking about the altered scale. But first, we're talking about our sponsors. Open Studio. Our friends at Open Studio So corny man Open Studio

Open the studio Super excited about The new Jeff Kieser's solo piano course I'm actually taking it Are you really? I'm excited and ashamed to say I'm taking the course right now I mean the dude is one of the best solo pianists

I've ever heard I mean he truly is He is amazing at it We're biased but that's true also So we can be biased and it can be truthful It's like how my mom says I'm one of the most handsome men Who's ever existed

Well my mother's you can never try I know you're biased, but that's also truthful. Because they see themselves in us. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, so go to Open StudioJazz.com and check out Jeff Keister. It's a mini course. Are we calling it a mini course? We kind of are. Yeah.

Yeah, because it's on the shorter side. But there's a lot of information packed in there. There's a lot of information. Go to Open StudioJazz.com. Check it out for yourself. Yeah. Elements of solo piano is what it's called. Well, today, we are talking about the altered scale.

That explains that super ominous battle. It is an ominous sound, isn't it? It's a transitional sound. It's a transitional sound. It's a transitional sound. It's a tense sound. We use it to create tension to be resolved. So let's talk a little bit about where...

Sometimes I talk about people's mamas to get a sense of tension. This is like the mama joke of jazz course. Actually, kind of is the mama joke. Before we talk about what the altered scale is most used for and how to use it. Let's talk about what it's not. Well, let's talk about exactly what it is. So if we're in the key of C and we want to play a C altered, how one might play that scale.

First one would open, one would go to howellner.com and purchase a scale. No. Oh my goodness. We're going to hook you up. Okay. So you're going to start on C.

And then you're going to go. Good place to start. The way I like to think about it, and I think this is the way I learned it because I remember hearing it, but I didn't know the name of it, but it was like a diminished scale. All the way up to here.

Did you know that? Yeah, I can see that. Oh, now you see it. I just don't think about it. Well, so you know, this will be good. I'm going to say the way I see it. that you're going to say. And then what it is,

is for those of you... But it's not a diminished scale. It is not. It starts like a diminished scale. But that's kind of easy because, you know, it's got those same alterations that a diminished scale would have

flat nine, sharp nine. And the third, it's a major scale, if you will, dominant major scale. So you've got half step, whole step, half step.

And then I actually like to think about it from that point on as a whole tone scale. Yeah, I see that too. Man, you're looking like, you never thought about it this way, which is great, because the cool thing about it, Any scale is like, pick the way that it makes sense to you.

There's no one right way. We are not theory nerds here. So it's interesting that you think of it this way. So you have C, D, D, F, E, Flat, E, Natural. Yeah. And then G, flat, A, flat, and we're back at C. It sounds, I mean, to me, it sounds like whole tonish, right? Yeah, there's definitely five whole steps in a row there.

Hence. But so I don't think about it like this at all. Because it's... I bet you will now. No, I will not. Because I've been thinking about this. It's going to haunt your dreams and nightmares. So it's part of the melodic minor system, correct?

Part of the melodic minor system? Yeah, I never, well, no, I do hear it like that. You know when I hear it? You're talking about the half step up? Yeah. So D flat melodic minor is what it's derived from. It's the seventh degree of D flat. Yeah.

But that's such a, I mean, I could never hear something in that way. But melodically, I'll definitely think about floating. Right, so this is how I'm thinking of that. So if I have a C7 alt with that D-flat melodic minor, that could also be a G-flat-7 Lydian Dominant. Yeah, totally, totally. Same licks, like that same, especially the broken chords, right? Yeah.

That's the classical of you. Stumbulliam. Was that a Morton or an inverted? An inverted Morton? An inverted Morton? No, so, well, the point is here, there actually is several ways you could think about any scale. But this scale in particular, it seems like people have

very different ways of locking it in. And you and I even think about it differently. You know, you say, you start, you think about it as a, what do you say? A half hole. Diminish. And then transitioning to a whole tone. It's half and half. Because if you think about a whole tone scale, you know what I guess it was because I kind of had the sound and the

feel for the for the whole tone scale before I really knew about the altered scale, even when I was messing with classical stuff. So I had that sound and shape locked in. Interesting. I'm very tactile. No, that's very cool. I'm a toucher. I'm a toucher. Very cool. Not in an inappropriate way. Okay, so we know what it is, and we know a couple of different ways we could think about it.

Either that... Wait, can I finish saying the way I was hearing it? Why are you rushing me, man? Yeah, good. Come on, man, they're good. Wow, okay. So, the reason I'm saying is, this is a third way to think about it. Whole tone coming down, and then instead of you're subbing in two notes.

So think about a whole tone scale. Right? And then when you get to the D, instead of D, instead of D, you're putting in D flat and D sharp. That's really weird to think about it like that. It seems like a lot of work. So in my mind works, man. I'm warped. Man.

I'm warped. All to just get to a melodic minor sound. Yeah. And that's what's important. The sound. The sound is important. We're probably overdoing. Why'd you let me stop and ramble?

I should have stopped you when you were ahead. So how do we use this? How do you use this mostly in your playing? Where do you put in the altered scale? Well, this is such a transitional thing like we were demonstrated at the beginning. It's unstable, but it's leading somewhere. I think the obvious place is probably to a minor, but it's certainly not the only.

Yeah, that's how I think of it, too. It's a great altered dominant going to a minor chord. Yeah. So here, the C-7 altered leads to it. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. It could lead to an F minor. To an F minor, right. And I think the thing you mentioned before about the G-flat,

structurally being like the G-flat 13-sharp 11, same thing, slide down to like an F-minor 11. Totally. Now, you can use it to a major. It doesn't sound bad to a major, you know what I mean? Right, right. It's kind of a little bit more of a dramatic sound, a little bit surprising. So further out from a major, right?

They has that A flat, the C-7-0, and that G-flat, as opposed to, like, the half-hole, which has an A-natural, which is why that leads more, I think, comfortably to a major. Yeah, and so I think it's more usage if you want it to be a little bit unexpected or a little more of a traditional. One thing to think about with this scale in general is it's got more tension, I would say, again, depending on how you use it, but if everything else is kind of the same, I would say it has more tension leading to a major than a diminished half-hole would be leading to a major. So in other words, if you've got... As opposed to...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have less tones, you have less scale tones in common with the tonic that you're going to, actually. That's right. Whereas the diminished has that... What is that? The fifth becomes the nine. but it's not in that, which is cool.

And that's kind of why you can decide. And, you know, if you have like a C-13-sharp 11, which I always think of that, the Vince Goraldi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he loves that chord. That's not where you would use this. No, because the A-natural. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about some common ways that you can play over this. Like, this is a perfect example of a scale that I don't really play it in a linear way at all, like, just straight. No. It sounds kind of weird to me like that. So I think one of the most common ways, like how I got into it was this kind of thing. Right, that lick there.

Again, in C7, E flat, C, A, flat, E natural. And that's really that second part of that jazz arpeggio of the D flat minor major seven. Right. Again, the D flat melodic minor harmony. And then another variation, I thought that's what you played at first, would be, right to a to a b flat instead of a c right right right you could also do d flat yeah like those those all sound pretty good the thing about the the e flat c a flat e natural is now we have a d flat minor

major broken chord yeah nine and you can actually this i think this scale works really well in seventh chords yeah broken seven's broken seven yeah yeah So I do recommend practicing, like if you start on the root of this on C, you get immediately you get a C minor 7 flat 5. Right. And then you get after that, you get that D flat melodic minor. Yeah. You get some really interesting note combinations as you work your way up. I think that's a great way to start.

And then you get that lick that we were talking about. Yeah, yeah. And then remember when you're doing the seventh, and look, if you're kind of new to this, start with broken thirds and then maybe broken fifths. and then broken sevens. But for all those, you're going to want to think about, I think as soon as you kind of get them in your fingers, no matter what instrument you play, guitar, whatever, singing,

is to break them up as you're learning it so you don't get too locked into... So in other words... Oh, yeah, yeah, different patterns with those four notes. Totally. Because it forces your brain. It forces really your ears to hear, see, because you hear before you feel.

Come on. And then... it can get quite advanced quite quickly. That's right. You know if you want to simplify it, you know what you can do. But those are actually things you could use. That's not simplifying it. No.

But if you wanted to... What's the name of the episode? Advance. Advanced. Well, I think pretty much all the applications of the Altars scale are fairly advanced at this point. One of the things that works really well are triad pairs on this. Specifically, again, on the C-7, we have the G-flat and the A-flat. Nice.

Yeah, and then you've also got... That really locks in that altered sound to me. Yeah, yeah. And then if you think about some of the, like an E augmented, which is really any of the A-flat, E, or C, and then with the F-sharp, that works nicely. That's a great triad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With the F-sharp major, you mean? Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, so E, A-flat, C, and then G-flat, B-flat, D-flat. Ooh, that's good. That's so good. But back to that A-flat, G-flat, one thing that I think for piano-specific things,

or even to the major, you hear that all the time. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yep, yeah. That's an A-flat triad going to a G-flat triad going to that F. Good voice leading, a lot of tension, but great resolution. Awesome. So you mentioned something before, which I would agree with,

and I think kind of would be borne out in the way that a lot of people play. Not a lot of, you know, just straight scale playing all this. But one thing that I'll do is, let's get away from C. It's higher to C. Agreed, agree. So if you go to D, kind of a little flurry. I call them flurries because this is what you're doing. I know what you're doing.

Yeah. So you're skipping some notes. It's a little bit of a shape. I did some of this in the 30-day. I did one of these, at least, in the 30-day, all keys challenge. Yeah, yeah. It was very challenging. I realized how much I rely on sort of patterns in certain keys.

But obviously, they work in all keys. They just feel awkward if you have a number. So what he's talking about specifically is on the piano, there are keys that fit really nicely like this thing in D with the E-flat melodic minor or the D altered scale. And I'm just skipping one note actually. But it's kind of where you start to, you know. Are you just giving the A-flat? That's the only one.

Exactly. It just rolls off the piano hand super nicely. And it's not necessarily, it's not actually any easier than just playing the scale, but. There's something about skipping that note. It does, yeah. Turning it into a six-note thing. It makes it even. Even if you kind of, you know, mix it up and go back or whatever, that's the general pattern.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. I will say just one more little thing to think about it for stick on D. Sorry. Shit, no matter. If we're using this as a dominant chord to like a G minor or G major, one shape that works really well is going down that sort of E-flat. You were just kind of playing it in your pattern. because you skip that A-flat,

but B-flat, G-flat, F, E-flat, and then landing on that D. Or. Yeah, either one. I feel like that's something that comes up a lot. Good stuff, I like that. Yeah, great. Me-likey, me-likey. All right, bud.

I'm so happy we have the new pod suite and the Hammer 88s. Yes. People have been digging the new pot suite and the light-up keyboards. And actually, we have some, they've been digging it, and you know what they do after they dig it. Some of our members. Not members. Listeners.

I have an idea. They're members. They're members of our club. I have an idea where you're going with this. You know what I mean? I'm stall a little bit so I can pull it up. But no, but we made an oath. No, oath is a little much, right?

Oathkeeper. A commitment. A commitment. A big shout out to the oathkeeper. No, so we said that we were going to shout out everybody that left a rating review. And we actually get quite a few ratings. And we get some reviews. I think it's enough for us to keep up with.

But the folks have been sort of, should I say, showering praise? on us? I mean, shall you? Yes, I shall. I shall. I can't chant, so I shall. No, but it's been great. Folks have been... Shant you? Well, you know, it really helps spread the word. I don't know why, but that's how the algorithms work. So I'd like to highlight one. This is from Cassata, from the USA. What's up, Cassata? Five stars. One, two, three, four, five. Bam, seven will be better. That's okay. We love you. Many of us are in a musical community desert. The energy in this podcast reminds us of the importance of hanging with such a community. Most of my day is commuting, dealing with the daily grind of an adult day job. Your podcast puts me in the zone of having a soul

again. And even in those quiet moments to myself in between conference calls, with your help, I can put myself in an imaginative state and focus on what I really love. We are lucky we have this love. Oh, well, that's nice. That is so nice. No, we are lucky to have you guys listening, truly. We're just in here, like, talking and doing our thing. But thank you for really creating this community. We're just, we want to serve you guys And we are very appreciative to have you So big shout out Casada or Casado Quiet moments

That's cool I can see like him or her getting hyped up before the conference call So now we got to up our game Come on Adam A little altered scale conference call You know what I'm saying You can really alter the dynamics of accompaniment that scale We have

Yeah We got one more Can I read one more? Because we said we're going to do everybody This is from Thomas in Boston Five Start I can't say enough about you'll hear it.

I came across Peter Mart last month at the Vanguard, bringing down the house with Christian McBride and a few Google searcher laterers. Boom! Discovered this fine, fine daily podcast. Google's working for us. Both Peter and Adam have an uncanny ability to know what musicians want and need to know

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