You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Al Gore Rhythm

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

This week Peter and Adam answer some really intriguing speakpipe questions about the nature of the internet and music being made today!Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey Peter. Wait, you stole that joke I was going to do. I predicted what you were going to do from the algorithm. The algorithm. I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Jazz and algorithms.

Explain. Oh, we are not explaining algorithms. Well, we're going to have to because after that introduction, we got to explain something. That's so funny. We were both thinking the exact same lame dad joke. Are we in the Matrix? We fight it's a sad jazz simulation yeah. Dad Jazz Matrix.

I like it. I like this. We so funny. We're talking about simulations because we've got some simulated music coming up. We've got, uh, you having trouble with your chair there, buddy. Yeah, we get along with you. Man, you're like a low riding over there. It's like you're on the streets of, uh, South Central.

I mean, I had a big lunch, but I didn't think it was. No, we're, we're, we're in the new pod front and. Podfront. Let's keep saying this so I can get used to it. The Podfront. Episode number two from the pod front. It's going well. far, I think.

Yeah. You think? It's okay, right? It's great. Yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah. I'm going to fix that for you right now.

We've got a bunch of stuff wrong, Harry. It's a lot to fix, but we're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah. I'm feeling good. We have a speak pipe today. I think we're going to knock out as many speak pipes as we can this week, Peter. Yeah, we got a little bit of a backlog.

It depends on how good they are, honestly. If you want to leave us voice message, go to you'll hear.com and leave us your own voice message and we'll knock it out. Here's one from Mike. We've never, ever gotten this question before. No. Hey guys, Mike from upstate New York here. Just wanted to get your opinion on computer-generated jazz.

I first found it on YouTube. There's a channel called Cafe Music BGM, and they've got a bunch of live, quote-unquote, channels that just played jazz constantly. And the composition kind of beanders between key centers and you've got three or four instruments. but it always doesn't sound coherent. There's other examples on Amazon music.

So, for example, there's a band called jazz violin with an album called Instrumental Jazz Violin Sessions. That's some of the, it sounds like they're using some kind of MIDI instrument there. It's just lower quality. Anyway, I want to get your thoughts on it. I'm a computer science guy by trade, and I've been meaning to start a project that makes computer-generated music for a long time, and somebody beat me to it. I want to see what you think, and happy practicing. Well, thanks, Mike.

And first of all, a lot of what you just described, sounds like jazz anyway. Incoherent. Meandering. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But not good jazz. Not the kind of we normally talk about here. This is a really fascinating subject.

You know, we actually have a open studio member and listener who has been a long-time listener, Andrew, and he's been working on a project where they've been working on like basically getting as much piano recordings into an algorithm as possible and able to recreate, like, Art Tatum playing, like, give Art Tatum a song that he never was recorded playing, but they can make it kind of sound like it. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. It's interesting if it could be done, but well, this, thank you, Mike, for bringing this up because this sent us on a, I wouldn't say deep dive because full disclosure, we listened right before the episode here to the two channels that you mentioned. Maybe we can listen a little bit live here just to get folks.

Yeah, so this is the first one. This is the cafe music piece. Because I wasn't familiar. I mean, okay, I was familiar with these crappy jazz channels, as I called them. And I always figured they were just like, get some players together to do some copyright free music. The whole thing is there's all this great quality music. but if you play it on YouTube you get a copyright

fridge. Yeah, but it's like, wow, if you're just going to get, I mean, there's plenty of out of work really good jazz musicians. Yeah. You could get to play better than that. I couldn't understand it.

But now it makes sense. So this is called, this is a live stream that's happening right now called Good Morning Wednesday. Happy Jazz and Basanova music. Well, it's funny because today's Tuesday, so they're ahead of their time for sure. Yeah, this might be in Asia somewhere possibly.

Could be. Okay, drums sound algorithmically. Yeah. Pop-bom. Yeah. we're going to call this Algo Jazz. How about that? Okay, this is both soothing and infuriating at the same time.

So this is all computer generated, though? This isn't a player. No. Definitely not a playoff. Okay, hold on. I want to... It's never going to end. Oh, my gosh.

It's mildly like... Wow. Wait, this is aggressively... It's passive-aggressive-aggressive-aggressive-aggressive. I mean, the thing is, for a computer, it's swinging. For humans, it's... Well, you know what? I feel better. I don't know.

The machines are not going to take over at this rate. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. Okay, so that's the first one. But you've got to read the whole title. This is great of the YouTube of this live stream. Good morning Wednesday. Happy Jazz and Boston Nova Music for Good Mood.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people watching this. 3.58 million subscribers. 3. 3.5 million subscribers? And 602 people watching on a Tuesday, good morning Wednesday. Oh, my gosh.

I mean, look, the thing is, okay, let's talk about just real quick before we go to the other one. This comes out of, I think, a need or desire for people to have some basically bad jazz playing in the background. Yeah. Or what they think of as good. They don't know. But it's almost like white noise. Jazzy, like study music or work music, right? Work from home music.

Cafe music, because I'll tell you what. in because there's a video on YouTube the video it looks like for the whole time is just different angles of a few steaming cups of coffee or tea maybe but it's just coffee it's a steaming cups of coffee and then this and the music sounds interesting because the music sounds like a steaming pile of shit it does we should make our own channel called you know we shouldn't we shouldn't but okay so that's so what was the other one the instrumental jazz violets in session. So I honestly I wouldn't know that was computer generated. I like you

would think that it's just bad. A musician like a guy in his basement studio. But it does sound like MIDI sound. It sounds like midi sounds like the drums you can really tell. I don't know it sounds like computer generated like here's an algorithm it's not as random as you think it would sound. It just sounds low quality.

Here's the violin jazz. Jazz violin. Okay that is I mean it's somewhat accurate to some kind of harmonic rules. but it's... I wonder if the algorithm said these many notes

must be out of tune like a jazz violinist. Whoa! shots fired! No, no, no, no, no. You don't know, you're not like that. Is that a real... Well, you know, I'm thinking about...

You got a real violin? No, I think, I mean, it's a real violin. No. It's definitely not a... Because what he or she or it just played is kind of... It's not unplayable,

but it's so unnatural to play on the... But it's very simple, like, melodically, right? But on the violin, it makes no sense. I'm honestly, I'm kind of dumbstruck by this. So that's all computer generated music and it's just... So I guess we could say, you know, in some ways it's better than you would expect a computer could do. Yeah. But it's also, I mean, look, we've had computers for years since I was a kid that could beat grandmasters at chess.

Yeah. Humans. This, I'm not worried about this beating any of us. Hold on, Peter. I just... I'm not saying the jazz is. as hard as chess. I don't think it is.

I want to dissect this a little more. Let's pause and just take a break real quick. Okay. Okay. So obviously jazz is harder than chess. One would think I just, well, no, I don't think so. I think it's just, um, there hasn't been as much. Well, I don't know.

I mean, like if you think about, obviously we would default to say that the creative mind and the personality and the human element of creating any art could never be duplicated by a computer or an algorithm, right? But I think what they found here is there are certain kind of rules to playing at least at a base level, BASE, this music where, like, you can hear like the chord changes are kind of just all what we used to call ice cream changes, but they're not actually a tune.

They're just kind of like one, two, three, six, two, you know. And like they're going places that are somewhat logical to a computer, I guess. Yeah. They're not breaking any rules except the rules of artistries. They're breaking many rules there. Except all the rules of humanity. Yeah.

So, I mean, I think that it's been able to grab those elements of the music. And it's kind of sad in a way because what an opportunity. So, okay, maybe people only like to hear jazz when they're looking at it. It's sort of like if you love coffee, do you also love to look at a steaming cup of coffee on YouTube? Isn't there an important element like the flavor and the taste and the actualization of it that's missing? Are those, I'm looking at the album cover for the jazz violin session. are those those are um what are those called you know those french pastries macarones

macaroons macaroons what are those are those are it's got let me get back on mic i had to come around to the other side does all i'm just quote does all computer generating jazz happen at a pastry or coffee shop in must yeah but i'm saying that's the aesthetic that people associate with wanting to hear this you know like there's there's there's a there's a a Spotify playlist or station or something that's super popular that's like coffee it's not what is it coffee shop but it's more like it's actual songs made by artists coffee shop jazz it's not coffee shop jazz it's like coffee shop but it's like folk stuff coffee sure there's well there's tons yeah

coffee shop ambience coffee shop music coffee shop playlist so didn't a certain amount of this come out of like during the pandemic where people like I love I miss the coffee shop but I'm scared to go to a coffee coffee shop vibes I can tell you one of the thing. This is not... Coffee and chill. This computer generated jazz is not safe for your soul. But it is COVID safe. If you're sitting at home, listen

to this YouTube channel. So there's, it's interesting here. So there's, I'm just looking at all the coffee playlist here on Spotify. There's coffee shop jazz and coffee table jazz. What's coffee table jazz? Oh, it's, it's Corey Weeds playing Wee 3. Yeah. That's not bad, actually. Yeah. I mean, this is more like,

Well, you know, could be good tracks that are put together. Yeah. But that this is filling a need for people to make money on these channels because they got copyright-free music. I mean, look, this is the thing. You could start a coffee house, like a hip coffee house and put on Miles Davis and great tracks, but you wouldn't get any income from it, the publishing would of those songs, as it should be. But this is kind of an end around to that for somebody's making a bunch of money off this crappy computer-generated stuff. Okay, so, man, there must be, people must get a real vibe from coffee shops.

You're so much more amazed than that than being a vibe. I'm just saying, like, someone, you know what this feels? Dude, you love a coffee shop. But I love a coffee shop, but this, you know what this reeks of? This reeks of like, yeah, let's get a vibe, like a coffee shop vibe with our music. So there's, here's all the playlist on Spotify. You ready, folks? Yeah.

Coffee Shop, Jess, coffee shop vibes. Your favorite coffee house, instrumental coffee shop, coffee shop, coffee plus chill, Coffee shop music, coffee shop indie, lofi coffee shop. Oh, the best coffee shop, coffee lounge, lofi cafe, coffee table jazz, coffee shop instrumentals, black coffee blues, coffee shop mornings, coffee shop music, coffee shop R&B, coffee shop, spring, coffee shop, jazz instrumentals, coffee shop, ambient coffee shop. And then just a ton of coffee shop, music. There's like 13 of them, Korean coffee shop. Coffee shop Korea. This is incredible.

Afternoon acoustics. But see, I like coffee shops, but I like to go hear great music in a coffee shop. What's wrong with that? French coffee shop, coffee shop, summer. Coffee shop clean. I like my coffee shop. A little clean. All right.

Well, we nailed it. Coffee shop Christian. This is amazing. Shouldn't it be Christian coffee shop? You think so. Yeah. Well, did we answer the question? No.

If you guys could see. I've never seen Adam so amazed. We've listened to some great tracks for the first time here before. And Adam's gotten excited. But I've never seen him with such a sense of, it's a combination of wonderment and bewilderment. You know how you discover something for the first time? And you're just like, I can't believe this is such a big thing.

But this coffee shop playlist. It's a huge thing. Yeah. Don't even look at like yoga type in yoga music on it. It would break my heart. I can't do that, man. Or coffee shop yoga? Coffee shop yoga.

Let's see what comes up with that. It's got to be something. Coffee shop. Is this interesting? Are you guys still here? Coffee Shop Yoga is a playlist. I thought they'd be like 300 of them. There are two likes.

This is, you know, some Lana Del Rey, some Tom Walker. Waterfall Coffee Shop with Jazz Music, Lounge and Smooth Jazz Music. That's a lot of jargon. Yoga Amazing in a minute. Coffee Shop Yoga. Coffee, yeah. Anyway, what did we establish here? Is there a, is, I want to, I want to,

I want a playlist that's like, I'm a tiny little soccer mom and I've got a giant SUV and I've got a Starbucks cup. That's what I, and that's the indie rock coffee shop. That's a different one. There's all these playlists for, they're so specific, man. I know. Can I get a playlist for the 40-something-year-old jazz pianist who lives in Webster Groves or something?

That'd be great. Yeah, that's the Barry Harris, like, authentic, you know, listen to some real music. No, but this is for people that just want to experience. I mean, look, it's kind of like, I haven't been in a Starbucks in a long time, but it's sort of, I don't want to sound like, I don't want to sound like,

I haven't been, I've been 10 years since I've eaten fast food and I've not been in Starbucks. What I'm saying is like, perhaps, maybe it's better than I remember it, but it's sort of like, have you, if you've had really good quality coffee and then Starbucks comes in and like,

well, this is like an algorithmic version of coffee. That's probably better than what we're talking about here. I'm probably, but I mean, it's sort of like, that's what most people, your average American wants. So maybe most people,

maybe there's much more interest in just sort of generic algorithmic jazz than real jazz. But I think it's because we haven't, not educated people, we haven't attuned people's like ears and nuance of their humanity to hear great music from a young age.

They're not nurtured by love with music, as the great Suzuki said. It's like, this is not about producing prodigy violinists of Suzuki method. It's about taking every human and like feeding them the same way you want to feed them great nourishment when they're little kids so they can grow up.

Feed them great music. Whatever it is. Classical, indie, electronic. It doesn't matter, but like, give them something real. I'm not trying to poo-poo the coffee shop playlist. I'm not coming at you. I'm just amazed at such a big specific thing. I know.

I'm amazed, but I'm also depressed that, I mean, not that people, look, because a lot of these, you see the kind of overtone of like Paris cafe ambience. So a lot of it's a nostalgic. Oh, I remember when we were in Paris. Do you really remember being? I mean, you remember a movie you saw? Were you in a Paris coffee shop and you were listening to Gypsy Jazz with a violin?

Because if you did, this other channel we first played is not going to satisfy your soul. It's not really good. I can tell you that. No, that's definitely not. Just like if you had a great cup of coffee looking at a steaming cup of coming out of a cup on YouTube, it's not going to really do it. But maybe people are just sick of being at home. I really like the way this episode turned out. I got to be honest.

We didn't really answer Mike's questions. It's just weird. But it is a strange thing. But it is a phenomenon. Can I tell you a story? The views don't lie. The views don't lie. Can I just making fun of your, I've never been in a Starbucks?

I've been in one in a while. I was at a, this is speaking of hipsters, frustrating. I was at a dinner party like 10 years ago. And there was a guy there who's probably 45 at the time. He's a 45-year-old man. And somehow around the dinner table, the subject of Oprah Winfrey came up. And someone asked him like, oh, yeah, you know what we're talking about? And he says, oh, I don't really know Oprah.

I've never, ever seen her. and I was just like Yeah Kind of like what I'm doing With this coffee shop jazz thing I was just like Dude are you serious right now Like I'm you know

I'm not like the biggest Oprah fan Or like watching every episode But you're aware of her You can't How could you be in a 45 real man in America Right But I think the way he leaned into it Was a little bit like

Oh I don't watch that dribble And I was just like Oh please Yeah I don't either But I know who she is And I've seen some of it Oh well

All right It got us a little hot under the collar here on episode two. I love it, man. These are my favorites. But there's something here. Thank you to, was it Mike? Ice mocha latte down at Starbucks.

Yeah, let's do it. With a big couple extra pumps of lavender sugar flavor. Yeah. That's what this is. Although, man. That's the equivalent of this kind of music. Now that we're totally off the rails. Can I just make a Starbucks shout out real quick?

I went for the first time in a while because we do enjoy their off ice coffee. We went after a little trip to Forest Park on a Sunday. Adam has a look of guilt and shame. A little bit. But you know what they're doing that's really right? So a lot of the hipster coffee places that I go to and I won't mention the bad name. But almost all of them, paper straws. Yeah.

Right. And it's great because they're not using plastic straws. Paper straws kind of suck, though. I don't know if you've noticed, but they like get filming in your mouth. Yeah. Starbox has gone to all lids that just have a little lip on it, a little spout, like a little plastic lid. A sip. Yeah, a little plastic lid.

It is a little plastic lid. You're right. Okay. Okay. I see that now. I see the moves. That's okay. That's okay.

Got it. I wouldn't know. We used to have a motto in our family. Martins don't go to Starbucks. Martins don't go to Starbucks. And then my kids started liking those. Actually, they had an Oprah Winfrey Chai branded. That pulls it all together for this episode.

Well, like, until next episode where we will be talking more about actual jazz, not algorithmic jazz. You'll hear it.