You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Aspirational Alterations

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

In this episode, Adam and Peter discuss alterations. Specifically using a diminished shape within a dominant chord. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Adam. Yeah. It's dominant. You look cringy right now. It's either dominant or diminished. It's crunchy or crunchy. It's crunchy. Let's dominate our diminished.

Crink, crink. Dear listener, I'm so sorry. Are we in a bowling alley, Peter? Is that worth a cut in for real? It was, well, kind of a little. I mean, you, like, didn't. It was like you. Okay, I made a little sound.

Are we taking shots? Like, you finished drinking your spin drift. I'm taking spin drift shots. And you slammed it like Nostrovia. Rosemary. Yeah. It was crazy, man. Okay.

Dude. You totally cut the music out at an awkward time. Your imposition was worse than the original. The cure was worse than the... No, no. Listen, I care about our... I don't know about you. I can't speak for you, Peter,

but I care about our audience. And I just... Our users. Our fear... I fear for their ears, man. Oh, come on, man. Jeez. Anyway, I excuse my...

My insolent insurrection, but also forgive Adam for me. Insulate insurrection. Just say the right words, Peter. Just say the right... Play the right note. Just say the right words, man. Okay, warning, full disclosure. We have a warning.

Adam has new buttons. Let me explain, because we're audio. Are we audio only today? Okay. So we have some proprietary hardware here on the podcast that's not available anywhere else. Just kidding. Every single podcast uses this hardware, I think. A lot of them do.

It's wonderful. Big shout out for Road and the Roadcaster for allowing us to purchase at full retail price, this Roadcaster. But it's basically, you know, a mixing board for podcasting, but then Adam has these eight illuminated buttons. I'm just going to press them because Adam had to get up. I don't know what he's doing now,

but I'm going to press them one by one just to steal a little bit of thunder. Here's the first one. I press the button. Okay, we know that. That's the theme song. That's important. That's a brilliant song. But then the next one.

You're not stupid. Jazz is stupid. Okay, that's Dwight from the office. He's programmed that. Here's the next one. Let's play the right note. That's Angela from the office. talking about jazz.

I'll blend and tell you what it is later. That's Miles Davis. I like that one a little more. That's a little more applicable. I'm going to fix that for you right now. Harry Connick. Would that be something you might be interested? That's from the entourage.

I forget the name of that actor. What's his name, Adam? No, no. Yeah. Is that Martin Landau? No, this button I like. This you don't use enough. Have you stopped using that?

I use it at the very beginning of the show, but you slammed and then you got Alan Iverson. I don't know if AI is going to hang on very much. But I'm so excited about this one specifically. I mean, just play the right note. Just play the right notes. You know what I mean? But I wanted to warn our listeners that you've got some new toys.

You've got a sparkle in your eye. Just be prepared. Just be prepared. You've got a hoodie on. You've got an over shirt. Yeah. Is that a carhart? No.

It looks Carhart-esque. It's Carhart-esque. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. It's like Nordstrom upper brand of Carhart. Yeah. I just got hip to Carhart. Is this having anything you do with the podcast?

No. Everybody's like, what have I arrived at here? So, you know, I grew up in High Ridge, and everybody used to wear Carhart. But not the way that. They're wearing it now. You know, now it's a thing. It's a thing.

Yeah, it's a thing. Anyway, this is the You'll Hear podcast. Did we even say that? It is. No, I'm Atamanus. And I'm Peter Martin's. And this is the You'll Hear podcast. Jazz.

Explain. Oh, it's a pregnant pause. But yeah, we are, we're going to talk about some music stuff today. We're going to go nitty gritty, Peter. We're going to make the ultimate connection between Carhart workwear and the Lydian Dominant scale. You didn't think there was a, oh, no, not Lidit. What are we doing?

Diminished. Dominish. Dominish your diminish. Dominate your business. There's not a connection between Car Hard and either one of those. Well, they're hardworking. They're hard working. And they're hard to listen to.

And they get you where you need to go. Right. You don't think they're going to get you there. And then once you get there, you want to take them off immediately. That's right. So let's get into it, man, because this came about because we were working, we've been working in Open Studio Pro on the daily added practice session on the Barry Harris, six diminished. Yes.

And so one of the things that we talk about with the six diminished is using a diminished chord shape, a diminished seventh chord shape on five chords. Are we talking about a fully diminished or just a diminished tri? Fully diminished, fully diminished chord shape on your dominant chords to give you that dominant 7 flat 9. So if you build your

like say G7 chord Yes. Right, here's our G. We're going to go G7 to C. If you build your G7 chord with a B diminished shape Yeah. Right? That'll take you nicely to your little C

six or C major seven. So a lot of people are having... Would it also take you to... If you wanted? C minor. It could take you to a C minor. Yeah, that's a great thing about them. It's like these diminished shapes built off of the third of your dominant chord.

Yeah. I actually built off of the third, fifth, seventh, seven, or flat nine. But explain why that is, why you think about it as the third. So your fully diminished shape here, the B diminished shape over the G, right, is B, D, D, F, and A flat. That's built on minor thirds. It's a stack of minor thirds. If we take the lowest note B and we move it up an octave, we get the next inversion, which are the same four notes, right?

If we take now the lowest note D and move that up an octave, we get F, A, flat, B, and D. The same four notes is a different aversion, and we can do one more, taking F up. Now, notice I'm keeping the G on the bottom here, the G in the base, because all four of these inversions, here's just a simple four-way close, right? Yeah. All four of these are G7 flatnines

Because they contain the third, the seventh, the fifth, and the flat nine And there's a symmetry with these that we only see one other place, at least in kind of the obvious view of this, in that all the intervals are the same as you go through your inversion, which is kind of unusual. Because if you have a, you know, or even like jazz arpeggia or whatever, it seems like thirds, yeah, but some of our minor, some of a major, depending on where you are the thing.

So the other interesting thing. Oh, that didn't interest you. It is interesting. I'm saying the other interesting thing. And this is the part that is kind of tripping people up, I think. So because of the symmetry of it, I have G in the base here. This is a G7 flat 9, but we can move this root around in minor thirds. Like to put it E in the base.

That's now an E7 flat 9 using the same four notes. So just B, D, F, and A flat. Here's with G. G7 flat 9. Here's with E. Yep. E7 flat 9, right? The same four notes.

Because here in E, we still have. the third, the seventh, the fifth, right? And the flat nine, they're just moving around. And you can do it again for B flat, C sharp, yeah, you can do it again for B flat. Very interesting. I never thought about it like that. Right. So because you can move that around, check this out.

This is what was blowing people's mind. And by the way, this is all part of like the Barry Harris method, right? Barry Harris way of thinking of it. And it's so brilliant. So here we have our G7 flat nine with our B diminishing a shape, resolving to C. Right? 5-1. as simple as it gets.

But check it out. I'm going to use this same. Here's B, D, F, and A, F, and A, F, going to A, C, E, and G, just a C, a C-6 shape. I'm going to keep the right hand the same, but I'm going to change the bass note and listen to what happens. Here's another time, 5-1 in C.

What about this? Right? 5-1 in C's relative minor, A-minor, because now this is E-7-9, going to A-minor 7. Which, this kind of opens up a whole new world. of possibilities because what you hear a lot of players do is, oh, Peter can't help themselves. No, no, no, I'm hearing some stuff now.

What a lot of players do is, like, say, if you have a 251 in the key of C, yeah, this D minor 7, you can literally use F6, the F6 shape going to this, you know, what you might call a C-sharp diminished shape, which is really A7, flat 9, right? going to your G7. Now we're making music. Now we're making music. And that's really why this is so brilliant. Like we've been working on time after time.

Oh, my. These are all just either six chords. So that there is a perfect example. So that's the three chord, right? We're in the key of C. So this is a little thing where the melody is, right, E minor 7 to A7. The melody is A, G, F sharp.

Right? So this is like a B7 flat 9, going to E minor 7, B, 7 flat 9 or the E minor 7. There's so much adaptable tension within those that you can use and kind of almost like dial in exactly where you want it depending on where you are in the phrase. Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what you're doing.

You're creating tension by creating 5-1 cadences within a chord. Right. So here you have D minor 7, which is like a two chord. Not a one chord. This is like a D minor 6. Literally like a Dorian sound two chord. But you can create these little tensions when you have the melody doing, you know, something like all of those. And that's all diminished, man.

That's all a diminished shape, adding that little bit of tension to your regular six shape. It's really, really brilliant. But it all starts with that idea, Peter, of getting to know these. Yep. And by getting to know, let's just say,

how they sound, but also how they feel as you're moving through. And you've only got three. You only have three. You only have three. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a blessing and a curse. Right.

Because you have to remember what each one. But I mean, so many. So many. applications even, we won't get in all the melodic things you can do, but it's like anytime you're locking in these shapes from a corridor standpoint, you're also opening up the opportunity for them to be little cells of melodic content. And that's where we're going with this, right? The idea is not to just throw your hands on the keyboard like a brick, although it works great. Throw your hands on the keyboard like you just have a brick. No, it works great in like a block chord context. But ultimately, though, you can use this idea to create great counter melodies. You can borrow from the diminished just one note. you know and change little things and it really adds this like beautiful tapestry. Can I throw just one little aspirational alteration to this? Please. Please.

I would like. Please. Let me just play the right. Whatever you do. That's right. Yeah. I warned you guys. So we're inverting the diminished here, starting on the third as you taught us.

What else would we possibly want to do? What if we, we know that the diminished scale is going to be anharmonically or diatonically the same? coming off of the half whole diminished on the root, right? Yeah, if you're dealing with the diminished scale. There's a few ways to think about this, by the way. Go ahead. I want to see where you're going with this. But all those, okay, so if I'm looking at do-do-do-d-de-d-d-what's something else I could do

up to that major seventh, which is still part of the... Right? It's not your... We're going from the diminished seventh to the major seventh, right? Coming off the third. Yeah, yeah. And then we can take this, and instead of inverting it, because, you know, the thing with this, yeah, we're inverting it,

but we're also taking that through the diminished cycle. It's just they're the same when you're in that, because of the symmetry of those stacked minor thirds. Once you go, and then we go through the diminished cycle. Don't invert it, but we're taking that shape and actually going through. Whereas this, taking that shape through is the same as inverting. So you're talking about just taking the top note of this, basically the top note and going one scale.

tone up the half-old diminish scale. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it happens to be from the major seven to the diminutive seven, but that's exactly what it is. But did you know, you could also do it in a way that is even a little bit more diatonic. Like, let's say we're going G7 to C minor. Yeah.

Right? So imagine here you're borrowing instead of from the half-old diminish scale or the whole half, depending on. Yeah. Instead of you're borrowing from that scale, you're borrowing from the E-flat-6 diminish scale, right? Because that's the relative major scale. of C minor, the key that we're in, right?

Yeah. Right? Nice. It gives you a little bit more of an inside sound. Yep. Some of them are the same. But it can. So in other words, here this is G7.

We're really surrounding everything using a B diminished. But the other notes are essentially C minor 7. The other notes you can bar from are a C minor 7. It's a way to kind of keep it inside a little bit that the... But this is more tense. So here's the thing. There's no right or wrong to this. No, no.

Like this, the one that Peter's talking about off the diminished, works great and is super tense. Right. And you could do all these great, these sort of great symmetrical things. This idea of,

here's your B diminished. Your, your quote unquote borrow notes, notes that you can borrow are C minor seven. It gets you more of a... Well, it's really fun when you start to combine it. Oh, my gosh. Well, then you've just,

you got 12 notes to work with you. Right. Exactly. But, yeah, but I mean, the shapes that you do and how you come in and out of it, because the, as great is,

this is if you want to go melodically with, like that starts to sound like a classical aitude or something. So you need to have those borrowed notes and those places where you're going even more tense, a little crunchier. And it's really up to you. Like, you know, always consider like how, just artistically, like, how inside do I want to be? How diatonic do I want to be?

Is this an appropriate time to really like throw that E natural in a C minor, right? Or that D flat, you know, like really get in there with that diminished. That's very Herbie Hancockish. Yeah. And I think just to clarify for our dear listeners who I do care about deeply, is, is, I think what you mean by that, what we mean is not like decide how you want to do it for the night or for your style. We're talking about sometimes for a couple of beats.

Oh, yeah. It's like what's appropriate, like how much of that tension and release are you going to dial in for the moment? And it's not an exact science and that's what makes this fun. But these do become a little stylistic hallmarks of different players. In terms of when they do it, to the listener, it's like, oh, I love it when he does that chick Koreas type of thing. There's a kind of science behind it that nobody needs to know. But if you want to play it, you need to know it. I mean, really most importantly is follow your ears.

And by that, like... So number one listen? Number one listen? No, but it's true because it's not just your ears are not just like, you know, your guide for what... It's such a skin stuck on the side of our head. No, man. It's your artistic vision. That's what your ears are.

It's the music that's in your head. And we're curating as we go with this stuff. So it's like, you know, you play something and it's like, you play something and it's like a little bit more than you thought so you pull back like this is a device it's not just it's like volume you have tension within harmony which is really what this is

you know where you're placing the beat in the groove if there's syncopation like we have all these different little dials that we can be playing around with and practicing and experimenting but listening while you're practicing is so important because you can get this stuff in your hands you can understand the science of it

understand the theory of it but never be able to really fully apply it because you've never made that connection between like how to curate in real time and that starts with the ears you know and that's I think the hardest thing

because people are like well I know this but I can't play it it's like it doesn't matter to know I mean yeah you need to know but you need to be able to hear it you need to be able to hear it and then even if you don't nail it every time you need to be able to hear it when you don't nail it yeah that's almost as important as hearing it when you do nail it

yeah it all starts with the music in your head and if you if you're not hearing it you're right it's It's not, doesn't even count. What if there's voices in your head? I've been having that problem. I have a lot of those. Voicing's in my head is good. There's voicings in my head.

No, but if, you know, it is one of those things that it's not really real unless you can play it. You know what I mean? It's not really real unless it comes out organically. We get, we get, oh, do we get letters from people who know all kinds of theories? Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? More than us. More than us.

And I'm not convinced that it's embodied in their playing. You know what I mean? And there's nothing wrong. We're not like preaching ignorance here. We know some stuff. But there is, you know, there is a little bit of something of like, why did Roy Hargrove not want to talk about music that much? Right. You know what I mean?

Like, why did Miles not want to talk about theory at home? Yeah. It's like, I mean, enjoy the sausage. Don't worry about how the sausage is made. I mean, if you're a sausage maker, yeah, learn how to do that. But don't expect that that's going to be of more as sausages discussed. I can't even go with your knowledge. Use your palate.

Exactly. Thanks, Peter. That was super fun, man. Thanks for my new buttons. You're not too bad. Jazz. It's stupid. Totally, Dwight.

Totally, Dwight. Yeah, way to go, Dwight. Way to have a jazz podcast where we constantly press a button that says jazz is stupid. Jazz explained. That's a funny clip. That is funny. We are sponsored by our dear friends over at Open Studio Jazz in there. Yeah.

Open Studio. So you were talking about the Open Studio Pro program. Yeah. Is that open currently? I know sometimes you've gated it due to too many. We have gated it when it starts to get a little bloated because it's so personal. Yeah. We want to have personal touches.

with all the members. But right now it is open. So if you would like to join Open Studio Pro, that's something where we practice at least twice a day, every weekday. Actually, every day, except for Sunday. We practice twice a day live on Zoom with our members. Peter's in there sometimes. Mini Wednesdays. I'm in there three days a week.

We've got Chris Parks from the things I've learned from Barry Harris YouTube channel. Great guitarist, great teacher, is in there twice a week. Bob DeBoo's in there three or four times a week. Max Gameez is in there teaching you how to transcribe. It's pretty awesome, man. It is awesome. And there's a lot of stuff, but none of it is required. No.

So, but there's nothing that, like, if you miss it at this time, and almost everything is recorded and available. Everything is recorded. We also have, like, like, guest masterclasses from people like Amy Nolte. Exclusive. Yeah. Guestmasterclasses. Yeah, absolutely. So it's been really, really cool.

Yeah, so check that out at openstiojazz.com slash pro. Yeah. And until next time. You'll hear it.