You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "At Town Hall" – Nina Simone

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

At Town Hall captures a pivotal moment in Nina Simone's story, when she left behind her dream of being a concert pianist and embraced her identity as an indefinable and remarkable talent.At Town Hall shows off Nina’s classical chops, infused with the jazz influences from working in nightclubs and mixed with the folk and gospel sounds of her youth. Adam and Peter pull apart the tracks to highlight each element of her unique musical blend. This may not be one of her most recognizable albums, but it is one of her most interesting. It's made even more fascinating by the fact that Nina met bassist Wilbur Ware and drummer Ben Riley only as they walked on stage! Listen to hear her arranging and composing on the spot.Subscribe to the You'll Read It newsletter for stories that didn't make the pod: https://youllhearit.com/newsletter Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://osjazz.link/yhi   

Yo, what's up, Adam? Yo, what's up, Peter? Man, it's finally fall. Dude, it's about time. I'm so over summertime at this point. It's been hot and humid. I'm done with that. I don't want to think about summertime.

I don't want to play anything about summertime. What do you love about fall so much, though? I mean, what's not to love? I love the falling leaves. I love a nice sweater. I love sipping on a delicious PSL. Well, what the fuck is that? A pumpkin spice latte.

Oh, ew. I don't like that. But Peter, speaking about seasons, I've been thinking, What if we played our favorite song for each season? I like it. But can we do it kind of fast, uptempo? Because we got a podcast to get to.

I got you. Okay. Ah, that's fall. Falling autumn leaves. Ah, we're in winter now. Spring. Wow. The calendar is really moving.

All right, hold up. We're back to summer already. We've got to slow it down. Come on, man. It's summertime. The living is easy? Just when I thought I was out. Close me back in.

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the, You'll hear a podcast. Music, Explored. Explored, brought to you today by OpenStudio. Go to openstudiojadjazz.com for a... Your jazz lesson needs... Yes, sir.

I went for it, Peter. You went for it, and you landed it. Sometimes I go big, sometimes I go small. I went big. You went big. It's all good, man, how you doing? I'm doing pretty good. How about you?

Good, good, good. Man, we've been... This has been a really fun season. We're on a bit of a run. We're on a bit of a run. Don't jinx it, buddy. This will not be the end of the run. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new, even better run.

I mean, it's such a beautiful reminder to me. Newsflash, there's a lot of great music in the world. This much we know. But, I mean, to be able to have, like, it's such an honor and a pleasure to be able to consume something like we're doing this week, something like we've been doing every week. We've been hitting some bangers.

This is probably going to be a little bit on the lesser known, not Nina Simone, probably more on the big stars that we've had, especially kind of multi-generational now. But in terms of records, this is a little bit less on the record. radar. But to me, it's so exciting to know about, you know, just the ones that I know about, that we know about. But think all of the hidden jams and stuff that are out there. This is going to be an endless journey. And by the way, I just want to thank everybody who's putting comments

in YouTube, comments on Spotify, I can't keep up with them. With a lot of recommendations for some really good albums. We got, just in the last week, we had someone recommend that self-titled Jaco Pistorius album. We got to do that one. We had someone recommend something from Bud Powell, which we got to get to at a certain point. We had to do that. someone recommend Concert by the Sea from Errol Garner, which I think we might have done early, early days, or a version of it, but we should revisit it because it's endlessly re-enetriam. Can we call this the pot atrium?

The Patreon. But we also had someone recommend... It's not for our Patreon. No. We had someone recommend maybe doing some prints, which stay tuned for some prints. That's on the list, isn't it? Yeah, that's on the list. Of course.

So we have a lot of great stuff coming up. But please put some more recommendations in the comments because we want to hear from you what you want to hear us here. That's right. And we want to get hip to stuff out here. We're trying to be hip, right? Well, you are. Yeah.

But today we have none other than Nina Simone at Town Hall. Live, I always say this is live at Town Hall. Yeah. It's actually at Town Hall. Simone at Town Hall. Yeah. Every time I Google this, I put live at Town Hall or a search of it. And it corrects you.

Well, it still comes up. Yeah, yeah. But man, what a great album. This is a great choice. A little different from us. It's from 1959. It's a year we hardly ever. ever talk about.

That's the big connector for us, I think. It's a little bit off the beaten path. Is 1959 or 1971 more in our wheelhouse? It's either those two years. And we're kind of leaning a little bit towards 7980 lately too. So we have our favorite years. There are clusters, Peter.

I don't know if you notice this. There aren't clusters in music. I know. It comes in waves. 63, 59. Yeah. 69. 71. 72.

Well, now you're just naming great years. Come on. 75. There's some good years out there. Yeah. A lot of good years, Peter. A lot of good years. Okay, boomer.

All right. Before she was Nina Simone, Eunice Weyman dreamed of becoming America's first black classical concert pianist. Can we pause just a little bit on just how great of a name Eunice Weyman is? I know. Eunice Weyman. I mean, Nina Simone is possibly a little bit better. Nina Simone, it's evocative of romance and sparkle.

But Eunice Weyman rolls off the tongue. Eunice from childhood, she was trained in Bach and Chopin, among others. She devoted her life to that pursuit. She really loved classical music, seemingly since she was first introduced, which is at a very young age. And then, you know, there's a lot of lore about this. She got dreams, interestingly enough, to go to the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia at a certain point. As opposed to Juilliard. Well, she ended up going to Juilliard.

Well, let's talk a little bit about it. People don't know what the Curtis Institute is. Why don't we tell them what that is? It's like if Juilliard is the Harvard, then Curtis is like, what's the place Harry Potter one? The Hogwarts. It's the Hogwarts.

It's like hidden and it's at a high level. Well, they have like a handful of students every year. It used to be they'd only have one or two for each instrument, I think, was accepted. And some people go when they're children. Yes. Like you go when you're very young, one of our dear friends, Aaron Schreiber from the St. Louis Symphony, went to Curtis when she was, but...

And Michael, too. Michael Casimir, Viola there, went to Curtis as well. And it is very, very concentrated. It is for only the top players in the world, apparently. And it's an incredible resource, and it was Nina's dream. Yeah, it was her dream to go there.

Even to the point her family moved to Philadelphia in anticipation of her being accepted. She was famously rejected, did not get accepted in, and there's a whole story and controversy about that. but the idea is like she did end up going to Juilliard

but then pretty soon thereafter she was working kind of against the wishes of her family. She came up in a real religious family her mother in fact was I believe a Methodist preacher and so she was in church a lot she was very well versed in the southern Methodist church tradition out of North Carolina

in terms of like the repertoire playing piano in the church from a very young age singing a lot but she always really fashioned herself originally as a pianist and specifically classical She definitely had exposure to jazz, but that was not her dream coming up, you know. And she's not the only musician that we've talked about on this pod or a musician that even hosts the pod

that went for a year or two to Juilliard and then became a jazz musician, right? Miles Davis went to Juilliard and became, of course, Miles Davis. And our own Peter Martin spent, what, year two, two, three? Yeah, one, three, three semesters. At Juilliard, when you and yourself was but a child. Yes. And then ended up being a jazz musician.

Of course, there was, it's Nina Simone. Miles Davis, it's Peter Martin. We know this, right? Buddy, you're going to see in the comments, you're not too far off. Went Marcellus. Yeah, he spent a year. And this is, by the way, before...

Christian McBride, I just remember. This is before, all of you. This is before there was, like, a Juilliard jazz program. You're not up there, like, learning bebop. You're up there playing classical music. Right, right, for sure. Yeah, so this record, she had a couple of records out right before this, and actually had a really big hit.

We're going to check that on just a second. But basically, I mean, she even said, She didn't like this idea of being a jazz singer. So this is interesting. We're going to talk about, is she a jazz singer and is this a jazz record? It's really a great topic of conversation. Okay. Oh, I thought you were about to commit in advance.

No, no, no. I think it's up for discussion. First of all, you know, I love a category. And I love to put an artist in a box. It's one of my all-time favorite things to do. A musical box. But I think this is a discussion that we can have about, like, I mean, like you said, she herself didn't want to be this thing that people were categorizing her.

Right. And she ended up making this whole career. Was she a jazz musician? Right. I don't know if that's an answerable question, honestly. Well, she said, you know, critics labeled her a jazz singer, which was a label that she despised. She spoke about that a lot.

And she, in fact, said, to quote her, calling me a jazz singer was a way of ignoring my musical background because I didn't fit into white ideas of what a block performer should be. So, like, she was really ahead of her time. Like, I think when we talk about now, it's like why would you like it's hard for people especially younger folks including kind of like my age and below to understand like the derogatory yeah like there was a duality calling somebody a jazz singer on the one hand it was i mean you're in town hall you're talking about elifist gerald was revered had played in carnegie hall i mean like there was a certain status it wasn't like jazz was just you know in the brothels or something like it was maybe 40 years before but there was still a stigma attached to that there was a pecking order of culture i mean i I think, with the intelligentsia, perhaps.

If I may, a little sidetrack. We talk about this amongst ourselves, about the mentality that a lot of quote-unquote jazz musicians have and how it can put you in a bit of a box that ignores some commercial advantages that you might have if you don't categorize yourself so narrowly. And I just want to point out, this is a theme of this show over the years,

how many grates, like on the Mount Rushmore of the music we have that do not want to be labeled as jazz musicians. Right. Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, like all of these people don't want, Nicholas Payton. Nicholas Payton. There's so many, so so many that do not want that word associated with their music that they're making. And I think that tells us a story about the feelings around the world. Now, obviously, there's the modern jazz quartet, are breaking the jazz messengers. There are people who are embracing the sort of categorization of that. But what I love most about this album and Nina's career in general is I think ultimately she, she sort of manifests, for lack of a better word,

the fact that she's not a jazz musician and becomes this huge, commercially successful, viable cultural icon that sort of like goes past where most jazz musicians are willing to go. Right. You know, and I think it's by freeing her mind from the box that people want to put her in

that she's able to do this. Yeah, and I mean, like later on, you know, with her writings and her political activism and her compositions and just the stands that she took, up to the point of like leaving the U.S. and doing all these different things. She understood, like she was so ahead of her time in terms of understanding this thing that she says about

didn't fit into white ideas of what a black performer should be. And I want to dwell on that too much and I know it's a harsh thing for some people. It's very relevant to the situation. Very relevant. And like for us now to say like, oh, of course. Like people didn't really, like there's a lot of implications that maybe don't apply thankfully as much today.

But at that time, you know, some people could say like, what do you mean she's being presented? headliner at Town Hall, but like she understood to be able to speak out and to have a nuanced understanding of that. And as you say, to being able, in some ways, to be able to leapfrog above even the box of the jazz players or even classical player. There was definitely like, there was a bitterness perhaps that she had, or at least expressed I'd see in interviews for her not to be able to pursue this classical career that she loved so much. But she also

turned it into like she ultimately was able to put her full artistry out there into the world at different times and then we're going to talk about it but i think this is kind of just the beginning of that in a way like the true artist of what nina simone was i mean you're already hearing it beautiful voice but she's doing a lot she's done a few of her own compositions on here a lot of standards kind of she's in the box but she can already hear what she can be and then a couple years later of course she's really becoming you know who she is yeah i know i think it's totally relevant and the way, this is this idea that she's supposing here of, you know, being put in a box by white critics or white writers about what a black musician could be. It's not even unique

to black music. I mean, it's very, very common, especially at this time. And like you said, it's sort of bent a little bit better, even though there's still huge problems all around. But even like, you know, quote unquote, bluegrass musicians talk about this. Like, they're just playing music that they grew up around and they're trying to, some people would talk like this, like just play the music they want to play. Yes. And then we hear something if you're not familiar with it and you want to categorize it. Or you can even go, you know, like talking about like Japanese music and I've heard musicians talk about like, I'm more than just this thing that you're trying to culturally define me by. I'm an artist trying to make art with my culture attached to it.

It becomes, I think, more of an issue of art and commerce where it's up to the record labels to try to sell these albums. And the best way to do that is to say, if you like this, check this out. And the way they do that is very, very heavy-handed and can honestly be a little bit suffocating if you're thinking about yourselves in trying to, like, serve these mechanisms of commerce with the art.

It's tough, man. It's tough. I mean, it's a little... I get it, but it's tough. Yeah, it's kind of like a high-cultural, high-culture, crass tastemaker kind of a thing where it's like, yes, this is great, but it's kind of like, yes, this is what you're going to consume.

Saying for us to understand you, Nina Simone, we have to lump you in with this other stuff that we understand what this is, right? Even though you don't, you're not going for that. Right, right. It's a very common thing. Right. So what happened was she went to Juilliard, I guess for a year or maybe it was for a summer.

She had been at Juilliard, and then she, on a scholarship, but she needed to make some money so she could go back when the curtisling disappointment happened. So she was teaching, she's living in Philadelphia, she's teaching piano, but she got a chance to play at a club in Atlantic City, Atlantic City at that time was a lot of like piano bars and jazz clubs and that

kind of thing, show clubs, whatever you want to call it. And that was going to pay a lot better and better than the teaching. And she got a gig playing at the Midtown Bar and Grill in Atlantic City. Ever been there? No. Should we go? But basically she thought she was just going to, yeah, let's do it.

Live pod from the midtown. Yeah. I've been to Atlantic City. I don't think it's quite as booming as back then. It's changed a little bit. Shout out northern New Jersey. Hard to get to you too. But the thing was,

like she thought she was just going to be playing piano and the guy, typical club artist, like, you gotta sing too. And so that's really when she started singing and like outside of church and whatever limited stuff that she was doing. But very much a religious background. So it was like, that was part of the reason, if not the reason she changed her name

was to disguise it from her family. You know? And because they were religious, like, this was the devil's music, you know, doing this kind of stuff. That's what it was considered at that time. So she started doing, she was performing, I Love's You, Porgy.

of course, from George and Ira Gershwin, Black is the color, some of these songs, because they were popular songs of the time. And so when she ended up getting her first record contract and recording, I believe it was in 57 or 58, it actually didn't come out until 1959 when they did this concert earlier in the year. But she did, I Love You Poor, it ends up being her biggest hit.

And so we're just going to listen to that. This is not on this record, but this is what a lot of people had heard. Like likely the people that came to the concert had heard. This was on Billboard. Like this was a top 100. hit, which is crazy. It's awesome. Don't let him handle.

If you can keep me forever. So that's on Little Girl Blue that came out in 1958. But this song, as a single, came out just in May of 1959. It actually went to number 18 on the Billboard Pop Charts, number two on the R&B charts. Listen to this. This is just a straight-up jazz trio.

Her playing on this is beautiful. If you can keep me. It's a very straight yet nuanced reading of this. You're going to hear a little bit, because she's 25, right, when she makes this recording. Yeah. Even, and she sounds like, you know, 35, like 40, like a fully formed adult. It's a little Samara Joyish in the sort of maturity in her voice. Not exactly the same quality, but like just where you're like,

how can this person so young sound so, you know, like she's lived. so much life, you know? I just can't get over. How did this get on the Billboard Pop charts? Can we go back to that time? It was a different day, different day altogether. Yeah, so that was, so I totally hear that influence,

and we're going to talk about all the vocalists, which could be every vocalist in some way since then, in a lot of genres. Very influential. Maybe the most influential vocalists since this time, like blues, rock, pop, you know. Musically, but also in the way that she handled her career and her adventurous spirit, too, these things.

But certainly an influence on Nina Simone, was this. And this is live in 1957. This is Saravan. The greatest. When's the Saravan pod, buddy? It's coming. Build a stairway to the star.

So this was out there in the world, right? And climb that stairway to the star. That's live in Mr. Kelly's Chicago, Illinois, of course. 1957. I would love to play for Saravan. Wouldn't it be so much fun to be Sarah Vaughan's piano player for a minute? Yeah. nice. But let's get in the record. So

live at Town Hall, she's got some hits, she's out there. The promoter, they're putting her on the Town Hall stage, which is a big deal. This is crazy. So Ben Riley, fantastic drummer, one of my favorite. I actually got a chance to play with him back when he was still around in the 90s,

which is great, like such an honor and to be a little bit connected with that, with Thelonius Monk. He famously played in one of the best groups with Monk for many years. You're so old, dude. I am old A.F. Wilbur Ware on bass. Wilberware, amazing. Chicago's finest play with Monks.

Oh yeah, we were talking about Sunny Rollins, right? We talked about Wilbur Ware last week in that Amon Tobin track. Yes. And they were both together and separately played with Monk. Actually, we were both playing with Monk at this time. The crazy thing about this, guess when they met Nina Simone, when they first played with her. You want to legitimately guess?

I'll say because of the way you're phrasing it. I'm talking about the rhythm section, bass and drummer. Yeah, yeah, no, I got it. I would say the way you're setting this up, probably earlier that day. No, as the curtain rose. They did not rehearse. They didn't even, they literally, I mean, I sourced this at two different...

What are you talking about? Hey, Ben. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What? They met right before. Like, that's how thrown together this thing was. Which is really going to be crazy as we listened to this. Have you ever done that before?

Yeah, but not when it came outside like this. No, and then it's on our live record? No, of course not. Like, this was another time, man. So let's... For the love of Jeff. Just thinking of that. Let's jump right into the first track.

Black is the color of my true love's hair. And I believe this song is like some kind of old, Scottish or Norwegian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an old Northern European folk song. And we have nothing on how this came to Nina Simone or how she ended up doing it. But it's a beautiful way to start the record.

I mean, you hear the classical chops from the beginning, right? Well, her tone output is ridiculously beautiful. How do you feel out the recording quality of this? I don't love it. I'd be honest. But there is a vibe to it, I guess. Of my true is space, so soft and wondrous. This is an incredible track, beautiful.

And I was just thinking, like, you know, one thing that Nina Simone brings, and we're going to get into some jazzy stuff, jazier stuff. It's an interesting kind of different styles on this record. But one thing she really brings to the party that if she was a true, I mean, she is a true jazz singer, but she's not coming from, like, that's just one.

her. Right, exactly. That's not what she's coming from. That's one thing that she can do, among other things. But she has this ability that's harder for us as jazz pianists especially to just play the triad and then go down there and like to really connect with this folk song, with the essence, very diatonic kind of way of playing. Like we would be, and she gets into a little bit of like the second time she kind of goes to a suss, which is nice, but she lays it out whereas almost any other jazz pianist, we would be all like, you know. Sounds like some Peter Martin shit right there.

Yeah, which I like. But she has so many different lenses with which she can look at this music, so she can start with the very simple voice. You know, the control with the vibrato and stuff is stunning. You actually hear this all over the album. She treats it as if how a classical musician would treat, like would respect the harmony of it in a way that you're right. I think jazz musicians would want to.

Yeah. put their own spin on, but I think it's absolutely perfect, that accompaniment there. Playing a chord and letting that beautiful piano ring out and then singing those phrases in between, I think it's exactly what the song calls for. And I love the triads that she's doing there. I think they're absolutely gorgeous. And can I just say like from the, what stands out from this album, because it's a live album, right? And it's not as well recorded as what we just heard even on Little Girl Blue and what, of course, we're going to hear later on in her career with how good her voice is going to be recorded.

But she is gifted with a couple of instruments. Like, her hands are, her classical technique that she has, her piano technique, I think, is really special. Oh, yeah. And we don't hear it a lot in jazz pianists, honestly. Like, the way that she produces a tone, we just had a classical pianist in here yesterday.

So I'm thinking about it a lot. We had Daniel Anastasio in here and made some stuff with him, and he was talking a lot about that tradition of creating tone on the keyboard. And you can just hear the sort of like, She's a really sophisticated keyboardist in that, like, her control over that, over those triads, even when she's doing something simple is so great. It almost comes out more on the really simple stuff.

It does. You know? It does. Like that's where you can really appreciate the high level of technical skill. The voicing, not the chord she's playing, but how she's voicing the notes in there. The touch, the touch. And then the second instrument that she was gifted with, and I don't mean this is, like, she didn't work for these things.

But I'm saying like these are, it's kind of like, they are natural gifts that she has is like the quality of her voice is so unique. Like she doesn't sound like... It's a contra alto. Did you know that?

Well, but she doesn't sound like a trained opera singer at all. No. And she also kind of doesn't sound like Sarah Vaughn. Right. She sounds like... You hear those influences. You hear the influence of both of those things. Yeah.

But her voice is her from the start. Yes. From right here when she's 25, 26 years old. Like it sounds so her and so honest. And so different and honest. Oh my gosh. and vulnerable and confident. Yeah.

And it's really special. From the opening notes of this album, you just feel like she is like some other vocalists that we've heard in the show recently. I'm thinking of like Erica Badu we talked about, but like she sets a vibe with this that is more than just a music nerds paradise. It is a human connection.

It's very special. Yeah, and I think maybe not having that baggage of, you know, I mean, certainly she'd heard Ella Fitzgerald, I'm sure, and Saravan to a certain degree. But everybody had. Yeah, but I mean, like, in her religious family, if they're like, that's the devil's music, you're probably not listening to it a lot, you know.

So she wasn't growing up with that, like, I'm trying to be that. I'm trying to imitate them or whatever. Perhaps I'm projecting, I mean, I'm doing a little improv now, a little philosophical improv. But perhaps she was able to get the essence of who she was quicker than others because of that. And by the way, the selection, too,

black is the color of my true love's hair, is a really sophisticated choice to open this album with. I'm not sure if she opened the show with it, but probably. But it means something different when she sings it than when a Scottish or Norwegian person

sings it. Do you know what I mean? Like this means... How could a Norwegian sing, though? They all have blonde hair? Oops. You can't say that anymore.

But no, you know what I mean? Like, that's a really... Beautiful. Like, she's already commenting on something. She already has something to say, which is very, very promising for the rest of her career, as we will later find out.

Yeah. Okay, let's go on to church. track number two. Now for something entirely different. Okay. The diversity of like styles, even though this is all piano trio with vocals, you know,

it's the jazz trio with the vocal singer, but there's such a diversity of styles and grooves. We've already heard that from the first track to this. This is one of the more kind of like swinging or straighter ones. I always love this tune exactly like you. Jimmy McHugh. Jimmy McHugh, Killing. R-I-P shout-out.

Yeah, 1930. You know, first, I mean, I think the first big kind of hit or people hearing, especially in the jazz style, was Louis Armstrong. Yeah. But everybody recorded this, so let's check this out. Oh, let me start this again just because that first chord, maybe it was fading in. I love the way.

This is some exciting stuff. And should we be keeping in mind, too, that Wilbur and Ben Riley have no idea what's about to happen? No, no. So that's why there's a lot of these, like, intros are kind of extended and stuff, because they didn't rehearse. She's teaching them the song. She's teaching it. It's like, this is the vibe. This is the groove.

And there's some funny little things that happen, man. They go along like pros with it. It's so good. That almost sounds like Inside the piano, perhaps It does sound a little bit like... And she's tapping. She's giving in the temple

They don't know what's about to happen. But this is definitely one of those kind of standards you could just call it. You know, good players are going to know it. Penitone. Man, her swing feel is definitely there. Her feel is legit great. Yeah.

That was the case. I know why I waited. I know why I've been blue. It helps have the swing in rhythm. Exactly. I've been waiting each day for some. Oh, Oscar Peter, yeah.

That's a little Sarah thing going up there. Or hell of you. When nobody sings those love songs, exactly like you, you made me feel so grand. I want to give this world to you. That's kind of Duke Allington-esque. There's some Count Basie and Duke. Yeah, as well for sure.

I'm scheming now I know why my mama she taught me to be true she knew just around the corner was somebody like you wanted a double time right right at the top so clean with it though she's so clean with it I was doing a lot of a flat pevat tonic and then to you those block chords were swinging yeah baby you make me understand Locked in, damn. And like her copying, it almost seems like she's constantly but every time she comes in,

she's like right in there. Vocally, she's dialed in but she's floating, too. They didn't know what was going to happen. Hang it up to A flat to E flat. That's some on the gig arranging right there. Pretty, that's run at the end too. You know, I love, I actually love this album. Is that swinging like a gate?

Oh my God. Like a well oil? D-40. I'm going to say it. I think this is definitely her most, like, swinging album that she has, right? Where, like, later she's going to get into a lot more orchestration and arrangements and even, like, on the popier side of things. Or the pop jazz, whatever you want to call it, mid-century pop side of things. But this is like a trio, it's swinging. You know, the solo, I hear, like you said, Duke Ellington. I hear Count Basie. I hear a little Oscar Peterson. Like the little melodies in between the vocal. Yeah. I hear some Errol Garner. I don't hear a lot of Bud Powell or a lot of. bird. Like, I don't hear a lot of bebop interplane. There's a lot of pentatonic, like you said. There's way more blues than there is bebop for sure. There's penitonics, there's blues, there's the block chords, there's pure melody.

Maybe a little Pentecostal, too. We don't know. A little pentatonic, pentacal. But I don't hear that, like, sort of Witten-Kelly version of this, too, right? Where there's, like, some bebop lines happening underneath that, which is cool. Like, it's actually really works, again, very unique voice on the piano as an improviser as as an improviser, as well as a vocalist. Right, right.

This is interesting. I'm just seeing in our notes here. She was just saying jazz was just part of what she was, but she identified more as a folk singer, which is an interesting thing. Duke Elling talked about that, you know, being folk music around the world,

being the kind of a unifying thing as opposed to a stylistic box, you know. Okay, so let's see, what are we going on to now? Oh, number three, the other woman. So this one, this is the first. There was three tracks on here that they went back and recorded in the studio. the next month. This record was

this concert was on September 12th, 1959 and then it came out in December. Why can't we have records come out that quick? Came out December, 1959? So pretty much 1960. Well, no, it was... Like Giant Steps came out in 1959. This came out of 1960. No. Well, no, no, it was close. But this one actually did come out in 1950. Just trying to rehash down over there. I like when you lean into your

errors. That's one way to do it. But they went back in and recorded. I couldn't get the story in my research. Exactly why, but it feels like there was... Can I take a guess why they went we recorded stuff? Because they just met as the rhythm,

they just met as the curtain was rising. Yeah, but then there was some allusions to that maybe a different rhythm section on here. We're going to listen, but I couldn't actually hear it. It's a different record. It's in the studio. There's three of these tracks that were redone,

which is not uncommon on live record, at least for part. But this is the other one. We're not going to listen. I want to get through actually every track, which is unusual for it. So we're going to jump around a little bit. You can hear the piano's different.

The other woman finds time There I heard some of that Sarah. I don't know. It's definitely there. It's definitely there. Oh, this was recorded by Sarah Lona and Eartha Kien. The other woman Enchance her clothes with fresh

This is a beautiful ballet here, but I was saying I hear a little bit of that. Which is going to listen to Sarah again. That vibrato. A stairway to the star You know that The nuance usage of it That's a little bit I don't know, maybe they just both got to that same part

And then also like that's the influence on to Nina Simone The influence coming off This is Betty Carter in 1960 So a year later Very young Betty Carter Teenage I believe So Betty's voice higher This was kind of before

She was Betty Bebop became her nickname. And definitely more, not timid. Her voice is amazing, but like you can tell the influences. So I think, well, I know, because I remember she used to talk about Nina Simone was definitely an influence on her being a little bit younger. By the way, I love the genre of the song, The Other Woman, which is like, it's a list song, right?

Like, she's listing things, but it's a comparative mind list song. Like you're comparing yourself. It's a little bit like in the tradition that Jolene, Jolly Parton's Jolene would be in. You know what I mean? It's a little bit like there's a, oh, what's the Sinatra one? It's a very similar vibe.

Anyway, I love that genre of, first of all, I love list song genres. If I were a bell is a great list song, there's so many. But then like the psychological reversed comparing. Anyway. Right. Mama said knock you out by L.O. Cool J. That's a list song. I'm going to knock you out.

Then you go through all the reasons why he's going to knock you out. Anyway, different show. What are you, musicologist? Amazing. Amazing. Amazing commentary. This is one of the only, I think there's two. instrumentals on me this is a blues why your award-winning pete we hope original by um

nina simone and this would have been an easy one who an easy one to rehearse to not rehearse well that means you just called the blues exactly what key is it a yeah unusual key this is kind of a classical of musicians blues key wouldn't you say a you don't you don't know you don't know you don't get a lot of blues called in A, at least on our games. Yeah, horn players not going to call this. No. I mean, a guitarist would.

Yeah. Down in Seulard. That's Duke Ellison right there. I think this is her best playing. Man, her blues playing is so... Come on, Ben Riley. What's that with Ben Riley's bass drum, man? Oh, his bass.

He drops the bomb like it's not... Why can't we get that for more drummers nowadays? That's great. It feels so good. And I feel like Nina Simone, her blues playing is so great because she's not... The reason I'm saying Duke Ellington is not to be reductive and be like, oh, that's just Duke Eccaltern. No, I mean, and maybe it's almost like they're not encumbered by that B-Bop pull.

You know what I mean? It's like straight, like diatonic blues, like very, very melodic. It's not using any harmonic tricks outside of what's built into the blues, right? Yeah. It's like, she said it too. It's storytelling. She says that a lot on itself. Have you noticed?

Yeah. Man, she went in this bad boy confident. I'm telling you, her confidence is what makes her so appealing. Which is crazy because she's 24, 25 years old. And she's headlining. Guess who opened up for her at this concert? You want me to legitimately guess? No.

Horace Silver. Bill Haley? J.J. Johnson. But with their bands. Horace Silver and J.J. Johnson's bands. Yeah. She was the headliner of this. Her first time in town hall.

I wonder how they felt about it. Well, I mean, you know, they've been around for a minute. Yeah. So, I mean, but she came in. Wow, just killing it. Okay, so that was the blues original under the lowest. Oh, so this is Irving Berlin's You Can Have Him. This is fun here. She just called them in on this. Yeah, you're right. I don't want him. You can have him.

He's not worth fighting for. Ooh, that's a baddie card. You definitely got that from. Besides there's plenty more where he came from We gotta talk about Shirley Lord's the influence of Neon on Shirley too I don't want him You can have him I'm giving him the sack And he

It's like a boy got the Broadway thing too It's a Broadway song I'm afraid Miss Liberty tribes Yeah Sweetie, he'd be better off with you. This is the verse, right? I could never make happy.

Loverware's like... Figuring it out? I don't know the verse on this. Through his curly lines and his underwear. And don't know his socks. Yeah, it's just, it's like so much. Yeah. No, I was just going to say, real quick.

So what we were talking about before about the sophistication of her using triads is something you don't hear a lot of jazz pianists do when they accompany, which is like when she hit that, like when they walk that down, we're in the key of E here. Most jazz pianists on this one

would play maybe something like this at the least. Right. By like an E. 6-9 kind of. 6-9 thing, right? But she straight up went like da-da-da-da-da. Like an E major triad.

Right, which if you're like a rock or pop musician, you're like, yeah. That's called a chord. It's called the chord, but we are kind of... We're fancy. We are fancy. And we like these kinds of... We're sophisticated. But it really works for her, man.

Yeah. And like, that's what I'm saying with just like her being her... Because it's like... Like, that adds a lot of color and nuance to the sort of vertical thing that's happening. But like her voice is able to add that when she just does that. Also, man, it's a dang tonic cord. Like it's a one core. It's what it is.

I'm going to the E. You know what I mean? No, it's really, really powerful. That's the thing. I was just saying, like she's like a broad, she has the drama and understanding of the lyric

and melody like a Broadway singer, but then she brings like the jazz, flare and the blues inflection. It's, but she considers herself a folk singer. This is, by the way, I did not know this fact that Wilberware and Ben Riley

were introduced to Nina as the curtain was rising. And I'm hearing everything now totally different. Like her calling them in, now I'm like, oh, she's just arranging on the spot. Essentially.

Stick with me, buddy. You'll learn some things. Okay. But I've learned so much already. Summertime, track number six. Never heard of it. Oh, a little foreshadowing there. It's so good.

Wilbur. The way they played that line, can I kind of take that back? Back it up. Sorry. And the fact, they didn't know what was going to happen. She's playing really quiet knock. Remember how soft the drums were before in the mix? What a beautiful sound she gets, too.

It's just such a great. piano sound collective arrangement and this would have been a song that they all knew yeah that every jazz musician is so the way most classical musicians know right so the way this was on the original record was split up into like instrumental but it's and then vocal version sorry i'm fast forward over it's such a great yeah she's singing the counter melody and playing the real melody Elton. Set again, as she. My apex moment.

No, you're... I mean, these are a bunch of them. Two Zones. Yeah, I'm gonna... We'll talk about the apex, and maybe even come back to it again. Okay, cool. But that's such a...

Like, that would probably be the subtlest apex moment I've ever done, but it's so genius what she does there. And, like, when you listen to this whole track, I encourage you guys, don't just take what we're doing. For copyright reasons, we can't play the whole track, right? But the thing is, it's such a... It's such a, like, this is exactly what great art is.

Like, it's so beautiful and simple. And you guys will probably hear that. You're like, why are you guys over-explaining it? That's just for fun. But, like, the sophistication, it's just like one little way of, it's like taking salt and chocolate. Whoever figured that out at first, genius, because it works. It shouldn't work, but it does.

I eat it every night. I can tell you. You know, it's an American thing. Is that an American thing? Oh, you give some sweet and salty to a European. They don't want that. They're going to kick you out of their country. But this is a lot of.

like that way of playing the melody up there. It's so simple but sophisticated at the same time. I love it. Yeah, what she's doing here in the key of D is, you know, normally you would sing what the melody is, which would be like, summertime and the living is easy. What she sings is just the tonic, right?

Yeah. The summertime. And she holds it while she plays the melody up high. Yeah. Such a great orchestration technique is what she's doing. And it's like. And then Ben Riley and Will were aware or like adding their parts.

They're coming up with this, this spontaneous arrangement that just sounds right. And they'd be like, after you do that, you'd be like, oh, we should never rehearse. You know what I think? We don't need to rehearse. Peter. And there's, there's like that degree of like unexpected that you don't get if you over-rehears.

I think this young woman has a future in the biz. She has a future. She has a future. She has a future in this business. Well, you know what? This would be a good time for us to jump forward a little bit. Speaking of a future, here's but six years later. Birds flying high. Oh, yeah.

1965 You know how I feel Breeze drifting on by You know how I feel It's a new dawn It's a new day It's a new life for me

Yeah It's a new dawn It's a new day It's a new life for me And I'm feeling good Such a great Yeah Such a great

It's ridiculously great. Yeah, so, you know, there was a whole evolution there, and you might say, okay, this is more indicative. The voice is the same, but there's, like, another, like, it's so recognizable, but there's, like, an even more enhanced sort of maturity to this very simplistic kind of, like, pentatonic-based melody, and then, of course, it goes. So many qualities, too, that we hear in, like, a lot of well-known modern artists,

like, whether that's, like, you can hear it in Amy Winehouse. You can even, I was just hearing, like, a little, Tracy Chapman. Yep. You know? Absolutely. A little Fiona Apple. Like a lot of people.

Yeah. Nina influenced. Yeah, for sure. All right, here's track seven. We've got ten tracks to get through. Cotton Eye Joe, this is an old 19th century American folk song. Where do you come from? And where do you go?

Where from? I get some moisturiser in my eyes. Okay. They should play this version at sporting events instead of the 90s dance version. You think?

You think? Yeah, this has been country fried, hasn't it? I would love to hear this in the Cardinals game, honestly. There you go. Now we're going to move, actually track 8 for some reason. I don't have.

What was track 8? I've got the LP here. We don't have that. But that's okay because we're running out of time anyway. We're going to start to kind of, we're going to get towards the end of here, but I want to jump into a few

categories because this one I believe you have as this is Wild is the Wind. Yes, this is my Desert Island track. This is your Desert Island track. Okay, so we're going to check this out. It's a beautiful song. It is. Love me love. Studio, not for the live version. This is written by Dimitri, Tiankin, and Ned Washington. For the 1957 film, Wild is the Wind. I just really... I love the song itself. I love the lyrics.

But I also love that it really leans on, you know, like the ninth of the chord a lot. It leans on some really odd notes and to hear, again, this amazing voice that she has this unique soul that comes through in her singing for her to lay on those notes that aren't folk song notes.

Right. That is more of, I would say, like, a jazz musician kind of like melody. Right. Yeah, melodic movement through the ballad. Sounds like Mount Davis. Exactly. You know, and I love her in that zone.

Yeah, and it was originally sung by Johnny Mathis, so, you know, I don't know exactly where the influences for this. This is Shirley Horn's original recording, but she definitely. Love me. The same song. Love me. So two years later. Similar vibes. Yeah.

And then this is Shirley Horn. Here's to life, jumping ahead to the early night. We've covered this one. Love me, love me, say you do. Wow. Yeah. Oh, that one always gets it. He loves this record, man.

No, I've got the moisturizer in my eye, man. You know, you don't, you hadn't looked like you'd had a dry eye before. You didn't need to put moisturizer in. You're all good. Cool. All right, we got one more track, but let's get to some. Actually, no, let's listen to a little bit this, because this is not officially because I switched my...

P. Epex Mole. But this is a great, this is Fide Mellow, Fidel and Mellow, the classic Billy Holiday. My man, he don't love me, teach me, oh, so me. So Nina Simone had definitely heard Billy Hollis. I mean, you can tell from this. Famously, there's that video, right? Yes. Oh, Billy Holiday singing this.

I think with the name of that. Like Ben Webster and Jerry Mulligan. That's right. That was like early 50s, I think. I think so. Yeah. Man, she was. I wrote this in 1939.

Really? Yeah. My baby wears high pig pants. And like, Minnesota's choice of when not to comp or to play on the piano is really cool and important. Baby wears high pig pants. Yeah.

Stripes are really yellow. Strives are really yellow. When he starts him to love me, he's so fine and mellow. Can I get you a wet nap or something for your eye? Yeah, that SPF 30 in the eye, man. Love will make you drink and gamble Is it a break or not a break?

It doesn't matter. And Riley's going to keep going. That's right. He just played right through it. He didn't know. Love will make you drinking games. If you repeat it, I mean, you made you do it. That's so awesome, man.

Like I said, now I've got to go listen to this and, like, hear all these things that are happening. Crazy. Yeah, but what a cool thing to have something that was that spontaneous to be preserved forever. It's beautiful. It's not just preserved. It's not just like, oh, that's a fun thing. It's like, no, this is a great record to listen to. I mean, buddy, how many live shows have you been at where, like, people are just meeting

each other for the first time? And it's a great vibe. You're getting to know each other? I've been at them, but that's like one out of ten, to be honest. When they're good? Yeah, I mean, it's like, it feels good, but if you were to listen back to a lot of those, you'd be like, ugh, it wouldn't be as consistent as this, I would say. That's, okay.

That's unusual. I'll give you that. But occasionally, you do get some really good energy. Of course, for sure. Because everybody's like, what's going to happen? Yeah, for sure. Musicians kind of don't know there's like this excitement and danger in the air. It's great.

Yeah, and you guys might not realize when you hear this because it's such great performing, but there isn't. I mean, Nina's probably the most confident on there in a way, but Wilbur Ware, I mean, because she's leading the thing. But they're like, you wouldn't know that they never played together. Well, let's be honest here. Wilburne and Ben Riley are... They're good.

They're pros. They're pros. Like, this isn't their first time they've accompanied someone without a rehearsal. Are you saying it's not their first rodeo? It's definitely not. You're about to say it. Definitely. I'll say it.

These are two masters. All right. We're getting to some categories here. Desert Island tracks. You already said yours is wild as the wind. That's great. I mean, that one would be... Correct.

I said exactly like you, just because it's probably, in a way, the most sort of stylistically atypical on this. But, like, I don't know. Neas is swinging so hard, Wilbur and band of course. I mean, I don't know.

It's just such a fun thing. I love that song. And I think it's probably... I think just listen to that every day on my desert island. We'll allow it. We'll allow it. Apex moment.

So I have this portion of the under the lowest solo, right? which was that blues. Yeah. Starting at about a minute 30, Peter, do you don't mind? Here we go. She gets into this repeated note. Huh.

Yeah. It sounds very modern. Yeah. Is that Brad Mill now? Right. And shout out to Ben Riley for not going crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

And then the yeah, the end, it's all just like. That's such a great. Cherry on top. That's my favorite. I think the mini apex moments on here are so understated. That's the fun part about it, you know. Yeah. And so the summertime.

And as we explained, the two zones for me, that is the, well, when she's playing the melody up top and singing the tonic of the counter melody. And then eventually she sings like the fifth when it goes to the five chords. Yeah, but she's still like storytelling with both of them. It's like she's telling two different stories. It's fucking amazing. You know, but spoke playlist, what you got? You know what? We have a lot of new listeners and viewers.

Did you know that? Did you just ask me a question and interrupt me? Yes, I did. Okay. I just want you to, can you let people know what we're talking about? We assume everyone knows what we mean. by bespoke playlist. Okay, that's actually a great call.

So bespoke playlist is... Did you just question me and then come back and dab me up right after that? No. Bespoke playlist is imagine a playlist that was created by

a Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube user where they put their favorite things into a playlist and they give it a stupid name, which people love to do. And so we thought, well, we can do this with this album.

If this album were to appear in one of those bespoke playlist, what would be the stupid name we would give it? I'm glad how to explain it. I never knew there was a stupid name. to it. I mean, everything we do has a little bit of a stupid angle to it, Peter. But I have, for this one, I have from conservatory to the club. Not my best work, but it works.

The both C's are capitalized. I like that. I've got it, I'm calling this quartet of three, okay? Which is both stupid and crafty at the same time. Well, because it's a trio. Quartet of three. But there's four instruments playing. It sounds like a... I confused him. Look at him. He's doing the math now.

It sounds like a Max Jazz album. A quartet of three. A max jazz. Albuble bits. Should we explain quibble bits too? Yes. Should we explain the show? Are we over explaining? I think that one's self-explanatory. You got any quibble bits? Just, you know, I think there's a little bit of inconsistency as you would have for the sound and the vibe. And possibly even on the rhythm section, we don't know, between the three studio redos.

Although you can tell they mixed it in a way to try to make it sound. Like you almost wouldn't know. Do they add tapis to the studio? I mean, there's a lot of reverb, probably more. than there's a town hall reverb. Sam, can you add some tape hiss to the show, please? You know, so to me, that gives it a little bit of an inconsistent vibe. And the order seems like it is not, it doesn't feel like this is the way it was presented, which is fine, you can change.

But I love live albums when it's like from beginning to end. I have no quibble bits with any of the tracks. I think they're all, and it's probably put together in the best way, but this is not, the sequencing and the vibe inconsistencies a little bit off for me. Yeah, mine is very similar. The sound is noisy. that tape hiss. Well, just come on and say it.

The sound is noisy. Sound is noisy. There's some hiss. You know, and that's a very, it's actually a pretty small quibble bit because live albums, especially if it's a 50s live album, I'm not expecting it to sound like kind of blue.

You know what I mean? 60? 59, we don't know. We don't know. Snobometer. Now this we really have to, because I look to yours. No, no, no, we have to explain it because we don't have to explain it.

There's no explanation for the snowmoblo. Well, but you're really getting aggressive here with your, snobometers from one to ten, formerly the snobble meter. I'm tired of these weak-ass fives, Peter. That's true. But explain why you're giving it a one, because I see that big fat one.

I'm giving it a one because I think it's very, very not snobby. I think it's very, very available to your average listener who doesn't know anything about jazz. Yeah, but this is... Okay, that doesn't make any sense. Why? Because this is probably... Like, if you were to say, what's your favorite...

If I were to ask you, what's your favorite Nina Simone record? And you said, Nina Simone at Times... Hall. You'd be like, you'd be the snobbyest, jazziest guy wearing a blue blazer. Okay, that's, but you've reduced it down to the category of Nina Simone. If I, if you were to say, what's your favorite jazz album? And I said, Nina Simone live at Town Hall, you'd be like, that's pretty commercial, do you think? You know what I mean? I don't know. Well, maybe you're right. So that's why I put two or nine, because I wasn't sure which one of those. Look at that. I've got it there. Maybe we should explain the category to you, Peter. No, it's a two or nine, depending on which way we look.

get it. Let's move on. Average of five. Is it better than kind of blue? Nope. Occutcheamolns. Okay. I'm going to give mine first, if that's okay. Go ahead.

Because I'm very surprised by yours. I'm going with a seven, and that's really low for me in a way, because I'm not crazy about the picture of Nina Simone, although it's like compositionally, it's interesting. You've got these mics here. It's out of focus, but it's just not a great picture, I don't think.

I mean, you can go look at it. But I love this design. Like, I love the combination, you know, it's really interesting. So when you say this design, you mean the Nina that's at the top? Yes, I like the topography. It reminds me of

zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, on PBS in the 70s. Oh, yeah, I know a show right. Yeah, I gave it a two. And the only reason it gets a two and not a one is because of the block Nina. Yeah, that's what got it is seven. The photo is out of focus,

and it's not a great composition of a photo. No, I said that. They don't even mention who's playing bass and drums on the album notes. That I hate. It's ridiculous. I mean, there's a little bit, like, there's a couple paragraphs of a blurb from Don Ross and Howard Burke. Yeah, they got the producer's name on there, not the musicians.

But not the rhythm section. It's also, if you look at this too, it's like, this is crooked. This, like, the notes are crooked on the back. Okay, that might be the bootleg reprint. Well, we can't name that. I'm just saying, like, I don't think it's great. You're pissed. I'm not pissed. I just think they could do better. Oh, you said. She's such a striking looking person. I know. Put a picture of her amazing looking face on the cover of the album.

I know. I know. And if you're going to have a picture from the concert, capture the trio, playing together for the first time, that's a cool thing. Yeah. Okay. Um, what do you have up next? So up next is like something that would pair with this. It doesn't have to be the same artist. It doesn't even have to be the same time. You'd be like, you listen to this and then you listen to another record and it would be some sort of congeniality between them. Yeah, I have Roberta Fleck killing me softly. And I'll tell you why. We've done a whole episode on Roberta Fleck, and they have such a similar story. Like, I don't know if you remember,

but Roberta Flack grew up playing classical music. She went to Howard University and studied Chopin. Yeah. You know, a lot like how Nina Simone wanted to play Bach in Chopin. And she eventually started playing at a club in the D.C. area. Yeah. And people discovered her for this sort of like

folk singer-songwriter. Right. And this is going on after Nina Simone had already had a very successful career. So I think those two women making very different music, but from a very similar... And first take kind of a jazz,

kind of her jazz record, but not really a jazz, and I don't think... Maybe even less than this. Less than that. I don't think Roberta Flack would consider herself a jazz musician at all. But I do think that

there's a lot of similarities there. And also, I think they would sound nice next to each other. Absolutely, that's great. I've got Sarah Vaughn Live and Mr. Kellys. We listen to some of that, the stereo. Like, that's an incredible record.

That's a great call. It's from two years before this. It's, you know, two sides of a coin that are very different, but I think super complimentary. So, hey, Peter, I just want to remind our dear listeners here that we do have a newsletter that comes out every week called You'll read it. You're going to get a nice email with some behind the scene stories of the podcast and even some things that we've left out of the show. So in the description.

Maybe some corrections. We need to start putting some corrections. It's usually a lot of corrections. So you can check that out. There's a link in the show notes here where you can sign up for our newsletter and you get a little message from the team here. You'll hear it. And then you get a whole bunch of spam from Open Studios. No, you do not get a whole bunch of any. useful stuff, useful stuff only. Until next time, you'll hear it.