You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Balancing Gigs

Episode Date: September 27, 2019

On this episode, Peter and Adam answer a SpeakPipe on how to manage several gig offers at once. Wanna send a SpeakPipe of your own? Sign up for You'll Hear It Premium to access our SpeakPipe hotline! Go to https://www.openstudiojazz.com/yhi for more info.Like those You'll Hear It shirts Peter shows off on the podcast? Want some YHI swag of your own? Take a visit to our store! Just go to https://teespring.com/stores/open-studioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Yeah. If a better podcasting gig came along, would you take it? Is that even possible? No, it's not. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear at Podcast.

Daily Jazz advice coming at you. Coming at you today, sponsored by openstudio.com. Yeah. Open Studio Jazz.com. Open Studio Jazz. I'm surprised you... Got jazz on the brain. I don't know how I missed it.

I'm surprised you tripped up because, you know, I thank you for not lording it over me. but yesterday you had some what we'd call scripted success. And I had some scripted fail. Are we going to actually release that thing? Well, I think so because it's not going to sound like a failure once Andrew edits it altogether. So we had this, by me, by we, I mean, Pete. Well, hold on. It's still out on who had the idea yet.

Let's see how it does. Had the idea to do a video about the seven levels of online jazz education. Yeah. Well, seven, yeah, seven online jazz tutorial. What are we going to call? Yeah, seven levels of online jazz tutorials, right? It's going to be really interesting. Really biting.

I almost said really funny. I think, yeah. We'll see. We were laughing. We were spoofing some like, you know, just a little preview here. Like, you know, you'll see stuff like a tutorial that only has an overhead cam so you only see the instructor's hands. Right, right, right. And then once, if you ever do actually see them, you're glad that you only saw the hands.

I don't even know if we left that line. But I was having a little trouble with my lines, man. Yeah, that was really interesting. I'm not a visual, what do you call it? You're not a visual learner. I'm not really a learner, and I'm not visual. No, no, what do you call it? It's almost like when you can look at something

and memorize it right away, visually. Yeah, like a photographic memory. I love photographs, big fan of photography, but not much of a photographic memory. I wonder if you would have read the script to yourself into like your phone, you know, recording it and then just like, listen back to it and then you probably that's for me i mean because once you were saying the lines

remember that was helping me yeah and then i would say it so like if i was on set as i was once that's for another day um and someone yelled you know when they're like line line give me that i would do okay but if they're like here's your scripts sir i'd be like no no no get it away it was pretty hairy however you were killing it though yeah you know most things i want to see if that comes across in the uh i i'm hoping it was some some adept editing you're not even able to tell who was killing it we're all kidding you're all What I loved about is you're just so good at so many things. So to see you not be good at something, it was a real treat.

Yeah. Adam was happy. He was on a cloud nine, as he say. Okay, so this ties in nicely. Not at all, actually. That's what we're talking about. We got a speak pipe from Travis. Let's hear what Travis asks. Hey, Peter and Adam, this is Travis from Augusta, Georgia. Love the podcast. I had a question for you. So if you're gigging and you're actively taking gigs and you're actively taking gigs and you're getting calls and the things are kind of going well, how do you or did you in the earlier times balance taking the gigs that you're already committed to that maybe aren't as musically rewarding and kind of like leaving room

for the gigs that come up kind of the last minute, but maybe you're with players that you know are going to be better connections or or help you play better. So one of my mentors gave me the piece of advice early on to always take the gig that you booked first, no matter what. And I've tried to stick to that advice. Sometimes I have not. And things are kind of starting to happen now.

So I'm getting a few more calls from people that I'd like to play with. And I've kind of already got some stuff that's in the, you know, that I got to take. So anyway, that's a question. I'd love to hear your answer. Thanks. Now we're getting into some... You're sweating over there. I see.

You get a little nervous over there. Well, this is some real, like... This is like some pro-musician talk, right? Because every professional musician I know has at one point taken a gig that they'd rather not be on. Right. You know?

We've all done it. Some of us several times. We both have gigs later today. We will not comment on whether or not those... I don't know your gig and you don't know my gig, but... My first one is not fun. I have two later today.

Oh, two. Yeah, and the early one is not going to be good. Okay. This is what I'm saying, though. But, you know, put a bad vibe on it there, buddy. There's good things about it, namely than my mailbox in about a week. So, you know what I mean?

That's the decision I had to make. So, and I think this is an interesting, this is an interesting question, though, because he's more saying, like, all right, I have these gigs booked. Probably for financial reasons I'm doing them, but they're not musically fulfilling. What if I get a call from someone who I really want to play with? Right. Is it okay to cancel out of that? first gig. I mean, yeah, that's a good question. I would say, yeah, I've kind of evolved over the years

on this, and I would answer that now, yes, it's okay to cancel. I was a little more dogmatic in earlier years, was like, you have to honor your commitments and all that. But I'll put a caveat on this. First of all, I think that, you know, we are all, there's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. We talk about community, and yes, we want to be, and are part of a jazz community, and a community of your local musicians, a community, if you're touring with a group and whatever. But saying that, normally you need to look out for yourself because everybody else is looking out for themselves. When you can come together in a group situation, that's wonderful. And you can still look out for yourself and do that and be generous and be part of groups.

But a lot of times people are just like, why I need to honor my commitment? Honor your commitment to yourself first. Now, that definitely includes not leaving people out there. And so where I've evolved to with this is if I do agree to do something, I don't look at that as an ironclad. I swear on my grandmother's grave that I'm going to be there at that time. There's a myriad of things that could come up. Health, family, emergency, and all these kind of things. And, yeah, sometimes it's a better gig or a better paying gig. I've found if the key to it is to have great sub.

Totally. And it just so happens on several occasions. I've got a great sub sitting there. I'm always welcome to it. I think I have actually returned the favor a little bit on when you've gotten yourself into a little wedgey, a little gig wedgy, as we would say. That's a great phone call I get to make, but I'm like, hey, so I can't make it. But, yeah, Peter Martin's going to do that. No, but I really think that whatever people's perceived levels or whatever, the trick to this is you take it upon yourself to get a great sub for the gig that, and you still have work to do, though.

You've got to make sure that they are prepared. It's not like, oh, I've got a sub and it's Adam Madison. He's really good, and so he'll come in. Like, I've got to make it so that it's as easy for you. like say if it's a gig, I've done a lot and you haven't done. I take the time then to sit with you and teach you, you know, make it easy on you. So, because the end result is that when you come in, the band leader looks at you at first and they're like, oh, you're not Peter.

And then all of a sudden you start playing. You're like, whoa, this is cool. We can still do all the regular stuff. We can still do whatever. And so I found that to be actually easier than I used to think it was. And I've gotten more confident with doing that. Having said that, you got to have somebody really, I'm lucky to have you available sometimes, but you're not even always available.

Well, and it kind of depends on the gig, too, I think. You don't know what I mean, on the situation. Like, if you're, like, there's some situations where, you know, I wouldn't be able to get prepared for a gig. Like, if it's like, you've been in the band for a long time, right? This is hypothetical. You've been in a band for a long time. You know all the arrangements.

There's no charts or anything. You guys are just a band or whatever. Yeah. And then you're like, well, I'm just going to sub out to my boy, Adam, because it's better gig. Like, that's a little, because, like, there's no real replacing that experience. And you committed to musically being in there.

If it's like a party band on the weekends that any keyboard player can come in and play Mustang Sally or whatever, do not feel bad about going after more either lucrative financial or musical endeavors. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? But I even think even the more complicated situation, I mean, if it's not, yeah, if it's totally like there's just no time and it would just take, like there's no way you could prep. But I think, I don't think any gig is that precious that somebody, I mean, to me, I'd love to think of myself as, so important and I'm sure you would like you know and we are the only ones that can do it stop stop with all that there's a lot of great musicians that need work and so yeah no one's going to do it exactly like

you but you know what sometimes you have somebody else come in and they're they're going to if you help prepare them and they prepare and they're good they're going to nail it and they're actually going to bring a little something different which is fun too yeah yeah and so I really think it's possible yeah there are maybe very limited situations where it's just so specific I mean maybe you like with your group like for the four four four or 42s because it's so much based around you. But even that, I feel like you could kind of, well, you've got to find someone that can play all those instruments.

But if you could do that, I think it's possible. It's not going to be the same, but that would just be more work on you. So that's part of the reason I don't do this a lot. I know, because it is more work, actually. It's a lot of work. So you've got to really want to do the other things. So this is just for emergencies. This is like you've committed to do something.

Maybe it's ongoing a relationship if you don't want to mess up. And Stevie Wonder calls the second keyboarders. We need them tonight. You know, who's not going to understand that you got to take that gig. I mean, I hope they would understand. Yeah, but you do everything in your power to make sure that the thing that you agree to do. Because really what you're agreeing, and you know what, now that I'm hearing this come out of my mouth, this is going to be kind of controversial.

So I don't know. I'm saying like when somebody calls you and you commit to a gig, I look at it as you're really, especially if it's a one-off thing, you're just committing to some, a piano player of your level being there. 99.9% chance it's going to be me. But there's a chance that's going to be somebody else, in which case I'm committing to making sure there's somebody sitting at the piano to do what needs to be done on the gig. most likely me. Well, and let's just put it out here just flat.

Like, it's not cool to leave people hanging at all. Like, you can't just leave a gig without a plan. No. Or, like, if you can't find a sub, that becomes a big problem. Right. I think that's kind of, now we're crossing into the territory of, like, you're kind of being a jerk to whomever hired you for that game. You know what I mean?

Because you did commit to having a piano player there of that. I mean, you committed yourself, but I do think that if you have a solid sub, especially someone like, you know, if you can set them up for success or, you know, hopefully it's someone that the person who hired you knows and is like cool with anyway. That's the ideal one, right? When it's like, oh, you can't do it, but Tommy can do it, but I love Tommy. Great. Let's do it, you know.

Yep. And I think that, you know, you and everybody, look, don't just take my blanket statement or our blanket statement about this. We're into murky waters, as they say. But my belief is, like, as long as you kind of understand the dynamics of the situation, the best way to deal with it when you do have a really highly qualified sub. that you have the time to prep them and you know they're going to come in and kill it,

is to just go ahead and make that move. Don't call the band leader and say, is it okay? Now, look, if there's certain situations... Oh, really? You're saying just make the move independently. Yeah, because, you know, first of all, you're just opening... If you've already made the decision, you're not going to be...

We are getting controversial, man. This is... That's why I say, Kavanaugh, you have to think about the situation. I've done it. I've done it before, and it's actually worked out really well. And we've actually... You've been involved with one of those where I just made the decision. I mean,

that was a complicated situation because you started out and then I came in. Yeah. And so, but like I didn't tell them, who do you think? I was like,

look, this is going to be the best thing. I mean, look, if they had held me over and pulled out a contract or something, maybe I would have,

but I mean, I was just very clear and like, trust me on this, this is what's going to, but I was basing it upon, this is, that actually was different

because it had nothing to do with me trying to do another gig. Yeah. It was more of a scheduling. You were already booked out for stuff. Yeah. But I think that it is good because the whole thing is you're not going to be there.

So the band leader is going to be like, oh, there's already going to be this kind of, oh, who's better that you're doing something else? I mean, look, if you're going to your kids' graduation or something, yeah, of course they understand. I forgot it was this. But if you're doing another gig, they're going to be a little bit, a little chip on the shoulder because of that. But if you come in and say, look, I'm not going to be able to make the gig, I'm so sorry. I was really looking forward to it. But I've already taken care of everything. Like, this is not going to be a hassle for you.

In fact, it's even going to be even more buttoned up. I've already taken care of it. Bam. And sometimes there's even like some financial things where if it's like part of an ongoing new thing, you say, look, I'm going to take care of paying them out of my own pocket. So that, you know, there's things that you can do. But the main thing is that you're making sure that the musical situation is covered. And you have to take yourself a little bit out of the ego side of it to be like,

I'm so special and precious that I'm the only one that can do this gig. Yeah. Try to get someone that could play if you do that. Oh, no, you have to. I have to. I hope I said that. It's got to be... Sometimes, you know, in my trio, I have the great Montes Coleman.

Yeah, so it's hard. Montes likes to sub out quite a bit. Okay, well, we don't want to name names here, but I love him, and I'm ready for it. Yeah. But, you know, sometimes it's a little hairy. But that's just because of certain factors here, you know. But I also think that for, and this is not talking about your gig, just talking about a gig that is either kind of lower paying or lower, you hate to say lower on the. total hole, but it's just a more casual thing.

Oh, for sure. No, it's a weekly gig. It's a lower paying gig. Yeah. And sometimes people are like, can you do a gig in 2021 on this date? And no matter what it is, I mean, short of being like, $100,000 to play, you know, at, at the Statue of Liberty or something, nobody can like, I mean, no one's going to put that down and be like, I can promise it guarantee you 100% I'm going to be there and we'll do this. And I'm, let's agree to the price and everything. So, I mean, there's always things come up. You know, life happens. This is very great area. Can I pivot first? minute though. I think

as we were talking about this, I would thought of a subject that we really haven't covered here, but I think is relevant to this and something that as Travis was saying, like, things are starting to happen for him. He's getting more calls or whatever. And so I think maybe we could talk a little bit about like, what is your process

for declining gigs? Because I think this is a little bit of an art form too, especially if you want to maintain a relationship with that person. But, you know, I mean declining them not because of a sketch, just like, I'm not going to do anything. Well, yeah, I mean, but you have to say no to a lot of things.

And I, like, because you want to say no to them. And I'm starting to more and more have to be like, yeah, this isn't what I want to do. So, like, there's, I'm finding, though, there's a bit of an art form into, like, the polite decline. Right. So that everybody comes out winning. Do you know what I mean?

A little bit or feels like they've saved some kind of faith. I think economy of words is important. Not getting into it, right? Yeah. So basically two words that I use, hell's gals, nah. that works well can you make a gig you direct Peter Martin is

no yeah so this is good I mean I think I don't know I think that's just I think you know in terms of communicating it to them for me whether it's a scheduling thing

or I don't want to do it or I don't have time to do it it's pretty much the same it's just like sorry I'm not going to be able to make that thanks so much yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't do like if someone I just am not interested in working with because I had a bad experience or something

I'm not going to say thanks so much for calling let's hope we can do it in the future. I don't like that kind of political crap. For sure, for sure. But I'll just be like, you know, thanks for the call. Sorry, I'm not going to be able to make it. And if it's somebody I want to work with maybe next time or I'd love to work with you. And I just try to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honest and direct. You know, when people get into all these flowery things and everything

and they think they're being kind and polite to everybody, thank you so much. It was an honor for you. I mean, you know, to me, that's more about you and your ego because you you care so much about what they think about you. Yeah. You're not that important. It's true, man. It's a gig. It's a gig. I mean, yeah, when you know, yeah, when When I get there, I'm going to treat it as very important. And if it's something that I don't feel like I can do that, I'm not going to do it. But I mean, all this back and forth and, oh, this. I really wish I could make it.

Yeah. No, I think that's exactly the approach that has worked for me as well. And I think it's the same approach that if going back now to Travis's question, you know, the same approach you can use when you need to sub out. You know, just be honest and direct about it. You know, you don't, but economy of words is also important. Yeah. Like, you don't have to.

And like, for sometimes you were saying, you can sub out. Yeah. And trust that, you know, and just do it and then tell them like, hey. And I think at a minimum, I know your eyes really when I said about that, I already arrange it without asking them. But I think at a minimum have it lined up so that you have, so that when you tell them, especially if it's more like last minute.

Yeah, you're not saying don't tell them. Like a different person shows up. I've been in that situation. I didn't do it. Like, I've been the one going. I didn't realize that's how I first worked with Diane Reeves. Actually, I knew her and we played together. She didn't know you were going to be at that first gig.

She did not know I was going to be at the gig. David Tark and I was. and knew one of this great piano. Her musical director for years asked me to do a whole tour. And I knew Diane, and I'd played with her. I didn't know her well, though. But he was like...

But see, that's what I kind of learned it. He didn't quite complete the thing, but, like, he came over, showed me all the music. And her set, I mean, her set's always a little bit complicated because her book is so big, and she doesn't like to have a set list. So, like, we covered, like, 30 tunes,

and he showed him to me. He's like, you've got to go to keyboards on this. you got to he's like and she likes I mean down to the thing of like he's like sometimes when she counts this off she turns away from the piano so you got to really listen because you can't see because she's pointing towards the drum like he prepped me he was my neighbor around the corner and like I was excited to work with her so he really took the time and he had a really good opportunity to you know to do a pretty big television show that at the last minute somebody dropped out to score this show called the big easy you might remember from years ago and and and but it was like

this three week Europe tour and it was kind of like you had to do one of the other. So it turned out he was kind of scared to he kept saying like, I'm going to tell her later. But he was like, I want to have an alternative. Because he'd made up his decision. He's like, I'm going to do the because he always had dreams of doing the TV scoring. So he's like, I'm going to do that. And so once you make that decision, I think he did the right thing. Do

whatever you can. Try to get somebody, the best person you can, prep them. Yeah. He just forgot about the tell her part. Telling her that. Yeah. So the tour started. So listen, when the bus shows up to pick everybody to go to the airport, I'm not going to be there. And he didn't tell me that either. Oh, man. So you were like, hey,

Yeah, and she was like, what? No, she literally, she's like, hey, Peter, but she was like real cool then because the tour was in Europe, but there was one gig in New Orleans. And I lived in New Orleans at the time at the Superdome for the Essence Festival. And so I'm down there, and Torquinovsky was going to play that gig. His plan was he's like, I'm going to show you all this stuff. And he's like, then I'll do the gig in New Orleans. You can sit there, watch. You'll get a flow for the set.

And then you'll be good. And the next day, you guys go to Europe. And so I found this out later. Like, he bought out of his own pocket my ticket for that whole trip because, you know, you can't transfer they'd already bought his ticket so that's the other part that I learned it's like don't say i've got a sub and now you're going to cost him a bunch of money yeah yeah yeah and he paid me and he paid me so we get to the supernova and diane's like that tv money yeah yeah and um so uh it did come quite a bit later i think he had to wait for the tv but like diane's like hey peter how you doing so good to see

i was like cool i was like man this is going to be fun she's like yeah so so what you have another gig here what's going on and i but i still wasn't clear i was like i said no i'm just because Torque was like maybe you can even play part of the show it'll be a good kind of segue. I said I'm just here to really learn the music and stuff she's like oh okay cool you want to sit in or something I was like well David said yeah maybe but you know I figure I'll just sort of watch

and then and then we're going to Europe tomorrow I'll pick it up on the tour and then that's what I think it clicked and she looked at me and she was like what tour I said and then it kind of clicked with me we kind of looked at each other because we both knew Tarkinowski and we're like oh certain part and she was just like but she was like

look back to me with like love and But then she turned away and was just like, Iyer, because Torc hadn't got there. And she was so icy with him, you know. But once we started the tour, we had a good time. It was it clicked. It was fine. And I think Torquette is a very smart guy. He should have said something, but he also knew maybe she was going to blow up or whatever.

So the timing kind of worked out. You know, I got to see the gig. And were you then in her band sort of straightway after that? Not straight away, but it did kind of lead to that. And Torqu used to always tease me for years. He's like, yeah, I knew if I got a really good sub. This is what was going to happen. It's going to lose my gig.

And it didn't really happen like that. I mean, that is a risk. I did. You get the really good stuff. You're going to lose the gig. Yeah, but my recommendation on that, and I've seen other situations, and I really am very good about complying with this. Like, I always get the best sub.

You, when you, I've noticed when you sub out with Diane, you get, like, some seriously ready casts. I mean, Jeff Keiser, Torquinovsky. You can't do better. Orrin Evans. Who's that guy in L.A. You were using? That guy was great.

We'll talk later. This is already a 30 minute episode. I know. This one's getting kind of long. Should we do part two on this one? Let's let some scotch. Yeah, yeah. Well, cool. Well, that was a great question.

Thank you. Travis from Augusta. I love Augusta. Have you been to Augusta Georgia? Man, that's beautiful down there, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know if Travis is native, though, because they got a thick, thicker.

He's got a little bit of Georgia twine, but not my... He might be in Atlanta transplant. You don't have that thick Augusta. Or maybe I might hear it. Well. But until tomorrow. You'll hear it.