You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Best Oscar Peterson Trio - Guitar or Drums?

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Who swings harder: Oscar Peterson with guitar or drums? In this jazz piano trio showdown, Adam and Peter go head-to-head with seven scorching tracks spanning OP’s career. Team Guitar brings Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis, and Joe Pass, while Team Drums is anchored by the ever-swinging Ed Thigpen.  We break down comping chemistry, shifting textures, virtuosic solos, and how each setup shaped the trio’s iconic sound. Which format delivered the best Oscar Peterson performances? Join us for a deep dive into Canada’s greatest jazz export.🟠 Open Studio Members:Nerd nook → https://www.openstudiojazz.com/community/c/as-seen-on/yhi-nerd-nook-classic-op-soundsABOUT OPEN STUDIO------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the premier online jazz education platform, with an ever-expanding course library and 20,000+ members, Open Studio (OS) has everything you need to excel and thrive on your jazz journey.Featuring everything from beginner to advanced lessons, engaging courses from A-list instructors, step-by-step curriculum, real-time classes and a thriving and incredibly supportive community, OS is the perfect platform to level up your jazz playing, whether you’re a total beginner, or an advanced pro-level improvisor.Try OS Membership today! → https://osjazz.link/aboutAll about YHIhttps://lnk.to/youllhearitYB

Yeah, so he goes down there. He's down there for like six months. He starts dating a woman named Bridget, who's Canadian. Oh, which reminds me, Peter, today's episode. Let's show a little love to Canada. Oh, absolutely. Or also, absolute mom. Yeah, let's maybe talk about Canada's most swinging jazz pianist ever. Oh, that's easy.

Canada's greatest pianist ever, Glenn Gould. I wouldn't say Glenn Gould's the swinginist jazz pianist. No, no, yeah, I was thinking more like Oscar Peterson. Nice. Of course. Yeah. So Oscar had two different kinds of treats. He had trio with guitar and he had trio with drums.

And I thought we could play a little quiet nights. And maybe Caleb, you play drums on the first half and guitar on the second. We see which one we like that. Okay, we'll kind of a beat it. Exactly. Let's do it. That works. It does work.

I'm Adam Anus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the you'll hear a podcast. Music, Explore. Explore today brought to you by Open Studio got openstudiojazz.com for, oh. Jazz lesson needs. Oh, Peter. Yes.

O.P. Yes. Oscar Peterson. O. O. O. I like that. Oh, Canada.

Yeah. O.P., is that for Oscar Peterson or Oscar Pedford? Because some people... Both, kind of, yeah. Ordinary people as well. Owen Pinegrass. There's so many things O.P. could stand for.

We should go through them all before we start this episode. Originally, the Pine House Blues. Peter, I would like to dedicate this episode to our lovely listeners north of the border here. Our Canadian, you'll hear it, because this...

We have a lot of fans up there. We love them. We do love them. We're putting that out there. We are definitely putting that out there. Sue us. We love Canada. So Sue us.

We thought we would highlight easily the greatest Canadian jazz musician, Canadian national treasure, Oscar Peterson. And it's one of those situations like you can't even qualify it with Canadian because he is a treasure in general and one of the greats of all time, no matter what country you're from. It is interesting how these artists transcend. Sometimes it goes in line with, I think, their artistic prowess, their greatness. and mainly just the love that they generate amongst their fans and sort of humanity around the world,

people become more like, that's my guy. You know what I mean? It's not just Canada's, it's not just America. It's like he's the world's pianist. I think that's the way people, I love that. You know, they transcend these borders. That's what art is supposed to do. Absolutely.

Having said that, you live in a different municipality than me. There's a line between our two municipalities. I've never said. I don't like you. So, Peter, I thought we would have a little fun. with this because famously Oscar Peterson would record with two and tour with two different kinds of trios. Yeah. A trio that contained obviously always piano, but upright bass and guitar or upright bass and drums. Right. And both have their advantages and both have some really special things. Yep. I thought it would be fun if maybe I took guitar and you took piano and we tried to, I don't know, see like which one was better either from us or from our dear listeners. So,

Listener, if you can, put in the comments here, either on the YouTube video, on Spotify, let us know by the end of the show, you've got to listen all the way through to the examples, because it's pretty competitive here. Yeah. We have three each. Let us know which OP trio you prefer, and we'll announce a winner on our Instagram later. So is this like a team Adam and team Peter thing, or is it a team drums and team guitar? It's more of a team, I don't want to lose to you.

So it's more of a team drums, team guitar thing. Yeah. But just whatever. Or team piano. Let's confuse it a little bit. We're all team piano. Piano wins all of it. Yeah, we could have also done

Oscar Peterson's solo piano records and it was all been good too. But I thought this could be fun. So I'm going to kick it off. So I'm going to represent guitar and then you're going to go with drums and then so on and so forth. So, okay, so my first call here

is very early Oscar Peterson trio. There was a lot more guitar in the early days. So this is, what is this thing called Love? From Oscar Peterson plays Cold Porter, 1953 on Clef, which is not the same as a later Oscar Peterson. plays the Cole Porter songbook. This is before that.

This is Ray Brown on the bass, who is on every track but two, actually, of the ones we're going to play. And this is Barney Kessel on the guitar. This is what is this thing called Love. Swinion. Winner. Right?

Oh, wait, no. You're already on my side. I like it. I'm on an O.P. side. They're on the front edge of that beat. Oh, yeah. Right on the front edge. Hold on.

I love how in the guitar trio can hear the piano. Oh, well, that's the best part, Pete. The pushing. Close the gate, it's swinging too damn hard. Called Stankface. Yeah, I don't know how many BPMs they pushed up, but it's not nothing.

How great is that, man. How great. You see what my rating reviewer that is? It's an A-plus. If it's not an A-plus, it might as well be an F, and that was certainly an A-plus. Peter, why don't you tell the folks about your first pick for your drum?

Okay, so this is C-Jam Blues. from Night Train, 1963, Verve, now he's into his Verve period. So this is a full 10 years later, which is big. You know, I think just even for Oscar Peterson's, like we think about the earlier recordings that certainly we can go back even before 53,

of him being fully formed in terms of his style. But I think what this starts to show is really how the trio with drums did affect and inform Oscars playing with that classic setup and how much, and like, you know, hearing that 53 guitar trio recorded just reminded me of like how how as you would expect from a great musician like Oscar Peterson but like how flexible and how intentional he was in playing in these different kinds of situations you know like even when he would do duo situations very

different the way that he would play we think of Oscar Peterson because his style is so obvious you know but he had a lot of different gradations in terms of the situation so I think this one of course the studio recording. There's a famous live recording from, I think it was 64, right around this time in Denmark, with the same trio, just killing it in an encore on C-Jam Blues. Yeah, Nitrain also just one of the greatest albums of all time. Man, I'm just... Top-friot? I mean, it's got to be, right? Oh, it's in the top three, for sure. Dang, top one. You said it, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just the tops. Yeah. So Live of the Pershing, no? No. No. You didn't know that, actually,

Man, I'm just looking here down our list, too. This is really going to be, because that's a competition, this is going to be like intense this episode. We got bangers after bangers here. Why did I give yours an A-plus, and that just backed me at a corner? This is great because same tempo, same key. Yeah. I do like drums, though, sir.

Brings a certain element. Ed Thigpin on the drums. Crushin. And as you'd expect, this is more reserved than the live versions from around this time, the studio version. Come on now. Come on now. You hear him singing.

You ain't afraid of it made you seven. Okay. That's good. I'm going to give this an A plus as well. I'm going to just reciprocated. Did I back myself in a corner with that A plus? I didn't, you know, like there's no fault in this. A reciprocal A plus.

Yeah. I mean, it's great. I think, you know, the only knock that I hear from people are just like, Oscar Peterson's playing is boring because it's so like. Is it, though? I don't get that. Where they're just like, he's just constantly, he does play a lot of notes, but a lot of great notes.

Yeah, it's great. And for piano trio, I think that's a feature, not a bug. You know what I mean? They spent up, but in the beautiful way, right? I never got to see Oscar Live. I really wish I would at one point. Did you ever see them live at all? Three times.

Oh, my God. Three times. I remember them all. I remember the Fox Theater, cool jazz festival. Europe at the North Sea Jazz Festival. And actually open for them and had the Hollywood Bowl. Amazing. Wow.

I got to see Ray a bunch. Late 90. Yeah. Ray Brown in the 90s was like torn everything all the time. Yeah. Got to see him a handful of times. Oh. Ed thick man.

That's pretty good, man. Yeah. Okay. It's a little point, counterpoint we got going on. So I served. You returned. It was a decent lob back, Peter. Yeah.

So I'm going to have to come strong here. I'm coming strong with a live recording. This is from 1957's Oscar Peterson trio at the Stratford-Shakesperian Festival. one of my favorite live albums of any genre ever. This is Ray Brown on the bass. Herbie Ellis on the guitar, Herb Ellis on the guitar, who would be his sort of mainstay guitarist

for a long, long time. This is a long track of How High the Moon, so I cut it down. It starts with the guitar solo and then a bass solo. So we're going to just pick it up right in the piano solo. Exactly.

But this is, I think, well, we can talk about it at the end. How High the Moon? Is that wrong with me to want to hear? Yes, that's wrong. No, don't do it. He's good... Peter, you're not making it better, man.

Peter has gone over to the drum kit and it's now playing drums. Sam, don't turn on the mics for that. Okay, that's a D-minus for drumming on this track. I'm not saying I'm going to add to it, but I do hear that. Will Jeff Hamilton... Jumping chords over your tracks. Switched back to brushes. No.

Check. Okay, so, but this is a great question. Peter. So, you know... I must say it needs it, but it would be nice. I mean, it wouldn't hurt it. Well, but would Oscar be playing the way he's playing? So so far, I have to say, my two tracks, Oscar is playing inspired. Like, he is swinging, and I don't know if he's... Not that he's not with drums, but is he even just a little bit more with guitar.

Well, you know what I mean? You might be right so far, but this next one's going to blow that out of the corner. Okay, so I've given you my live track. Here's your live track, Tintin Deo. This is sort of an interesting album. So he made this series of albums called Exclusively for My Friends. And this particular version is called Action. I think there were four, three or four total. They were recorded in 1964 in a studio for MPS records

with a live audience in the studio. So you're going to hear very sparse clapping, and that's because they weren't at a concert hall. They were in a small studio where he just invited people over. This is again, just like with the C Jam Blues, this is Ray Brown on the bass and Ed Thickman on the drums. This is Tintin Deo. This is pretty amazing, actually.

I miss that. You don't need it, though. I don't know. What a cool song, too. Ooh. Is it the last week? Having drums opens up some options for Ray Brown. That's something you get with the drums.

Dynamics and another scale. He's making his case now, folks. He's making his case. Hashtag Fax. Listen, you're not wrong, but you're also not right. Well, yes. So I'm in the middle. Messy middle?

Oh, excuse me. My name's Oscar Peterson. I'm from Montra. I'm about to swing my ass off. Yeah, I can't really hear him over the drums, but yeah. Really? I can. Oh, he can go out of time whenever he wants,

because he's got the drums holding. out. He's not restricted. You can't lose the time when it's blaring in your ear. Oh, Ed, I'm sorry for freedom. We can all agree that's really killing. You might want to fade it out unless we want a hip. Oh, no, we're not. We're not.

Oh, you want to save it? All right, let's leave it here. We're going to come back to Tintendale. Oh, it's the best part coming up. Yeah, we're going to wait. Okay, so I have one more. Hey, plus for that. Hey, listen, let's be honest here.

Everything we've heard today. No, look. I got an A on how high the moon. Are you serious? A is good. How high the moon is like S tier? Are you kidding me? It's great, but I mean, this, to me, for Oscar,

for like all the things that he can do, it's just, you know. The people will say. Our dear listeners will let us know who's winning here. Okay, my next pick is a little bit later, a 1974 Pablo album called The Trio. I love the Oscar Peterson Pablo. Oh, Pablo was a great label,

especially early 70s. We got Neil's hair. Orsted Peterson on the bass. Enhop. What'd you call him? Enhop, right, correct. And then, I was testing you. And then the great, and literally

maybe the greatest, Joe Pass on the guitar. It's just incredible. I don't know if you've heard this, Peter, but this is... Of course, Blues A2. Crushin. That's how much people love a guitar trail. No, they're having to clap

because there's no drugs. They're like trying to... No. They're trying to give the rhythm. They're like, come on. I'm like, okay, fine. Let's listen. It's a little bit.

sorry you were saying. Are you going to try to criticize this right now? No, no, no. Without drums, it puts this kind of, so much more pressure, like especially with guitar playing lines, pressure on the bass player. Now, we're talking about Ray Brown. We're talking about Enhop. So no problem.

But when you get past them, I mean, there's a little player. But, like, it puts a lot of pressure. Which Enhop is killing it on here. Yeah. But that's a difference. It's not a right or wrong. I mean, you play Giants. That puts a lot of pressure on everybody, too.

But these guys can handle all of us. I know. That's a bosunover, I can tell. That is a bosun-dor. Isn't that sick? N-Hop, N-Hop, Niels Henning at Orsted, Peterson on bass, Joe passed on the guitar. I mean, Oscar was a little bit like I don't need you, you guys. Well, he doesn't, really. Peter, tell us about your last pick here. Oh, we hit my last already?

For the great Canadian jazz legend. Oscar Peterson. What do you got? Okay, so I cheated a little bit on this. This is still trio with drums. Okay. Same trio. Ed Thigpan, Ray Brown. Ed Thickman drums, Ray Brown on bass. Are you noticing a pattern here?

Yeah, that's a great battery. But this is from Oscar Peterson Trio Plus One. There was a bunch of records where they had different guest artists, right? Yeah, Lester Young, yeah. And then, of course, vocalists and stuff, Elvis Gerald. But this is 1964, and this is with Clark Terry. And this is a record that for a while was like really, like everybody was talking about it. And then I don't hear people talking about it as much anymore.

But people that love this record, love it. Like me, Sue me. Me too. This is great. From St. Louisone, Clark Terry. Brotherhood of Man. All right, you might win. I don't know.

I already know this. That's an A plus. Plus plus. This is cheating, though, right? You can't add Clark Terry to the mix and expect not to be accused of performance enhancing... It's performance enhancing Clark. Performance enhancing Clark.

PECs. Okay. You can't do that Phil on a guitar. You can't do that on guitar. You can't do that on guitar. This is that ride symbol. He just hate losing to you. Isn't this not a losing?

It's just underperforming. The world... It's just not losing. It's just not winning. No, you know what is this? Type of thing with Clark Terry needs drums. It does. Well,

which would be fine. I would love to hear this with Herbellis stuff. It'd be good, but it wouldn't be quite, it would be something different. And you know what I'm saying? Like the pressure on Ray Brown here, like he's still going to be swinging. That's not going to be a problem.

Here we go. So good. Aye. With the trail? You can have another piano solo. Oh, no. After this, he comes back for another soul. Swinging like a well-lubricated gate.

You know what it is? It's just, it's a bigger thing. You know, it's like a full orchestra versus a chamber orchestra without breath. It's not worse or better. It just opens up more dynamic possibilities. It does. More conversations. I'll give you that.

And also it was an evolution for Oscar Peterson as well. You know, one of his big early influences was Nat King Cole. I don't know if you knew that, but he just loved Knack and Cole, and apparently sings just like him on that Dick Cavett interview. You can hear him singing like Nat. And so that was Nat's thing, that guitar trio thing. Like you think about his famous trios all had guitar. So it was an evolution.

I mean, like I said, the best thing is, Peter, is we all win in this competition. I did. Lighthearted fun. Lighthearted fun. So there is a recording that I wanted to play, and this is with guitar and drums, a little bit of a reconciliation of our group.

So this is a reconciliation. This is a 1970 MPS album called Hello Herbie, which is not the Herbie you might be thinking of. It's Herbie Ellis. Hello, Herbie. Why have you been playing keyboards the last nine years? Yeah, no, this is with Herb Ellis on guitar. It's kind of like a guest artist on this.

And then Sam Jones and Bobby Durham as the rhythm section. Oh, Bobby Durham, yeah. And this is the beautiful tune exactly like you with a little bit of everything. That's a great tune. I never heard this. Mm. Can't do that on drums.

No, you really can. You can't voice lead like that. Caleb might be able to. Isn't that sweet? Maybe the answer is quartet is best. Yeah, course. You get a little bit everything. The last few tracks were quartet, so there you go.

I think Oscar Fears was such a great conference, so it's always great to hear of doing that. It's really cool. Ah, so bad. Especially for other instrumentalists. Vocalists. I thought it was great for that, too. Herbellis sounds great on this album.

That's exactly like you from Hello Herbie, 1970 MPS. Herbellis and guitar, Sam Jones on the double bass, and Bobby Durham on the drums. All right, Peter, it's time to get down to some categories. Yes, sir. Again, these are desert island tracks here from our list. What would we take to the island?

What are we going to have for dessert? I'm going to take one of yours, actually, and this maybe is conceding my case here, but I'm taking Brotherhood of Man. The Clark Terry thing pushes it over the edge for me. I think it's the greatest. It is great. I mean, I'd be fine with any of these. This exactly like you is tasty.

I've never heard this before. It's really good. I'm almost my calling audible on that. I think I would. Okay. Yeah, I would take that. Because I love this. I had CDM blues,

but I'm thinking more of the live version with the video. I don't know if there's video playing apparatus available on said desert islands. Apex moment. Okay. Talked about yours. Can I cue that up for you here? I think,

I used to send this to students who would be like, how do you swing? And I told him to listen to this transition from the groove. Mm-hmm. And I will just raise my hands up. Like I'm in church when it comes on. You'll hear it, though. Oh, here we go.

It is swinging. It is swinging. And then it's like, right when they go into it. And it's, as much as Oscar Peterson's swinging, obviously, they're all swinging. But like Thigpan and Ray Brown just, I mean, it's just so, it's such a great thing just to point to. What is swing? That is swing. Okay, I'm going to go with my version of this.

I'll die on that hill. This is as we're getting to the double time section. Oh, yeah. So he's doing double time block. chords and he's doing double-time syncopation over the beat. Right here. Oh, I'm back it up.

Back it up. So here it is. Starting right here. Doesn't get much better. No? Doesn't need it? Doesn't need it. But it would be nice.

Okay. Bespoke playlist title. If this were on a playlist on Spotify or Apple and music, so I'll go first because I've got some... No, I think I'm supposed to go first. Okay, you go first then. That's what you told me. Why it's bad?

Let me give you my first one. Okay. You got three good ones. I'm definitely leading into the Canadian angle here, so we're going to call it. My first idea is, jazz with a bag of milk. Yeah, I don't even get that, but okay.

They have bags of milk up there, Peter. Oh, so do we. They keep their milks in bags. Well, you know what? It's okay. I'm going to have, this is stupid. I came up with the stupid one, Adam. Relaxing at Timmy H's.

Okay, let me make that better for you. Ready? So you got relaxing at Timmy Hortons, right? Yeah. Timmy H. More accurately, I think we would call it. relaxing in my gitchies, sipping a double-double from Timmy's and smoking darts on the Chesterfield. How about that?

Canadian enough for you? It's way too Canadian for any of them. They know. And then finally I have Killen, eh? Oh, boy. Okay, let's move on before we get caught up too much of this. Up next. Up next.

What other albums pair with this? Okay, I'm going to go on a weird one, and then I'm going to go on some fun ones. You want the weird one first? Good. Glenn Gould plays Goldberg Variations, the original version, 1955. Okay. Another great Canadian pianist. That's true.

That's a great route. That's great. And then also I've got a little bit of a fun one that you may not be familiar with. Rennie Rosnes, double portrait, which is a record. A lot of people slept on with Bill Sharlap. Yeah. Great album. Yeah.

Oh, okay, you know it. And Rini is from like late 2010. Something like that. Yeah. That's another fun one. What you got? I have Rush 2112, Celine Dion, the color of my love, and Alanis Morissette, Jagged Little Pill. And you said I was leaning into the Canadian angle.

Quibble bits. Peter, for me, I, some people will criticize this Oscars playing in general, especially with the seven tracks we chose today, as the Jazz Olympics, right? This is athletics, it's just fireworks. I love the Olympics. They come around every four years. The Canadians are very good at the Olympics, I might add. But I also thought, like, is this all too nice? Is there not, like, some kind of grit or something? My only critique made of Oscar is, like, it's so clean and it's, like, so incredible that it's, like, It just swings too hard. It's too bluesy.

If he's got any faults, he swings too hard. No, but like, you know, the stuff that we love about monk or even like Vinius Newborn, that there's just a little bit of like rough around the edges, even though they're obviously prodigious talents and have lots of technique. You know what I'm saying? I do not endorse this or prescribe to that.

I'm even just kind of talking to it true because obviously I love Oscar Peterson, but I get it. I get that criticism. Okay, yeah, totally. So my only quibble bit is with the guitar trio, this... Why are you looking to me like that?

Well, I don't like where this is going. With the guitar trio, does it expose I love it, like when we're not sure about something, we pose it as a question. No, no, no. With the guitar trio, does it expose too much of O.P.'s vocals? No, that's the best part. That is not the best part.

No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. I don't mind it, but with the drum trio, it covers it. It sounds like Keith Jared all the time. It's great. Exactly. I don't feel like that's the best part of Keith Jarrett. playing either. That's all. All right. Snobometer, what do you got? I got five, because I'm totally

lost on the snobometer. I got three. Well, how snobby of an album is this? Would this be? Don't try to simplify. You know it's more complicated than that. It's not. You haven't talked about... I've dropped that weeks ago. I dropped that weeks ago, Peter. It's how snobby is this album? It's just not an album. It's a bunch of tracks.

How snobby is this episode? Not very. That's a three. Okay, I said five. Is it better than K-O-B? No. No. Accruits, album covers. Okay. I mean, all of it. of them. Some of them are good. Some of them are good. It's like a hit and miss scenario, but that's, as to be expected. Okay. Thank you everybody for listening. Again, putting the comments here on the

YouTube video or in the comments on Spotify or let us know who won this argument. And what do you prefer? The drum, trio or the guitar trio? That's right. It's guitar, obviously, but let us know. And yeah, you have something to add to that? Yeah. A little last minute lobbying for your call? Next time. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Well, I just wanted to point out. So we also, if you comment here, we will read your comments. Oh, I have an exciting announcement after this, by the way. Okay. We will read your comments on the air.

So here is a comment from Coach Carlos from an episode just a couple weeks ago. Just learning about jazz, thanks to you guys. Makes me want to go back into piano like the old days. Right now, most of your music has been enriching my playlist Jazz Waves. Thank you, Coach Carlos, for including us in your playlist. This is from Max Ben Denown. Commenting on Spotify, because I can. Also, I give it a 4.5 on the snobobiters.

So yeah, you can't comment, and Max did. And one more from YouTube. This is from BMAR 922. This is in reference to your recent amazing cardigan sweater that you were wearing on YouTube in the last few episodes, Peter. Hipest cardigan ever, something Miles would have worn cheers. I just wanted to read that for you for your...

Well, what year would he have worn it? That's a great question. I'm thinking late 60s, but... That's right, right, right. Okay, if you also get a chance to drop in the comments, what albums do you want us to cover? Because we've... Since we have the new...

incarnation. First of all, are you enjoying... Where's my camera A? We got... Hi, Camera A. You're there. Oh, camera A. Yeah, yeah. We're in the new space here for, what, a couple months now. We're having some fun. Yeah. And we've covered some different kinds of albums. Yeah. Even some non-albums like today, some concepts. So if you have anything...

Many of you have already put a request. Please drop that in the YouTube comments. Or maybe Spotify. You have to show me how to find those. That's amazing. It comes on a piece of paper, like with a pigeon drops it off at your house? No, it's on your phone, Peter. Do you just... You want to do that simplified version of your phone that all the people are talking about? Is this the simplified version of your phone? I printed it out so that I wasn't here on my phone like a jerk. What kind of professional are you? I got this question for you.

Until next time. You'll hear it. Not a question. Statement. Hala.