You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Bill Evans' Most Underrated Album?

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

Have you checked out Interplay? One of Bill Evan's most swinging performances on record! Join Adam and Peter as they break down what makes this album hit so hard.Peter's 10 Greatest Jazz AlbumsInterplay Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey Adam. What's up, Pete? Are you ready? For what? Well, just listening to the greatest Bill Evans album of all time. Oh, Walt's for Debbie. No. Portrait and Jazz.

Nope. Sunday at the Village Vanguard. Still no. Undercurrent. No. Conversations with myself. No. Let's just, you'll hear it.

Okay. I'm Adam Anas. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Music. Explore. Explore. Brought you today by Open Studio.

Go to Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJaz.com for, oh. jazz listen. It's just a quick one, but it's a fact. You kind of tempered it a little bit. I like that. So Peter, so is it the Bill Evans Tony Bennett album? Is it? Okay, are you trying to say there's a lot of great Bill Evans albums? Because I would agree with that. There's a lot. I'm just, I'm just curious what we're listening to today. Well, it always comes back to that interesting thing of like, I guess I get caught up in, in, I get hung up in the difference between my favorite or something, an album that I love versus the greatest. Because I always think,

when I say the greatest, I mean the greatest to me. I'm humbly offering that as my opinion, you know? It's not that it's the only great one. I mean, how can you ever say one is the greatest? That's what's so great about the greatest. It's completely subjective. Yes. And we all feel like our favorite. I mean, how many times have I said Secrets is the greatest, not only

the greatest, Herbie Hancock album, but the greatest down in the 1970s. Is it really? Yeah. Maybe. Although last time we listened to it, you were, you seemed like you retreated just slightly. Again, this is the thing about the greatest. That can change even within you over time where when I was 25, you couldn't convince me that Secrets wasn't the greatest thing that's ever happened. Right. And I've since grown. Yeah. Well, I think too with this, what's interesting with Bill Evans, I mean, obviously one of the most beloved musicians.

Is it Evans or Levins? Bill Levins. It's like one word, right? You know, this is a little bit of an underdog, a little foreshadowing. This is an underdog. It's an underdog pick. And not to me, because I listen to this record a lot. You know, whenever we encounter music, especially kind of the cultural phenomenon of an album, at least the way it used to be presented, our initial interaction with it, I think, is such a special thing.

Kind of like when you, you know, if you go to an art museum and you encounter some art that you come back to later in your life, maybe many times, maybe every week, you know, or maybe every year. And, you know, how have you grown? What's happened in your life? The art stays the same,

but how you're looking at it, changes, but it's also sort of this cultural touch point for you as you walk through life. And so this album is super interesting to me from that standpoint, because it's probably the Bill Evans album, not to personalize this even more than I've listened to the most and kind of studied and encountered early on. But yes, it's not known as his greatest album.

But objectively, it probably isn't. Well, it's, but it's possibly his most underrated album. Yeah. I think the thing that... It might be his most interesting album in a way in that it's a little bit outside of the ordinary. one of his more interesting albums. Yeah.

And I think, and we'll get into this as we go, but, you know, the question that I always have with this album is, it's like a non-canonical album. Like, we think about Bill Evans' sound. We think about the trio

with, you know, Scott LaFaro and Paul Motion. We think about that sound. Right. That interactive trio with brushes and the bass player are doing some crazy stuff around what Bill's playing,

right? This, like, group improvisation that's happening throughout. And this doesn't have that. This is a, like a, a, Murderer's Row of like tippers, essentially.

We got Philly Joe, you got Percy Heath on bass, you got Jim Hall, and you got Freddie Hubbard, right? So there's not a lot of that Bill Evan sound that I think you get in Waltz for Debbie and Portrait for Jazz and all of his classic, you know, albums, trio albums. And even his solo albums, the conversation with myself, the duo albums like with Jim Hall undercurrent.

Which was right around this time, like just a couple months after this. couple months after the Tony Bennett album in the 70s and those kinds of albums where he's really introspective. This is swinging Bill Evans. Yeah. You know, with Philly Joe. It's a whole different vibe. And so it's a little bit of a throwback, right? Well, a little bit. But it, you know, we'll talk about that and in context of Bill's career, where does this sit? I'm not surprised that this is your favorite album. Because if I know anything about my boy, Peter, Peter loves to swing. Sue you. Sue me. I love swing. But that's not to say that the class

classic Bill Evans trio. You know, I believe this was recorded, well, it was recorded after Scott LaFaro, you know, who tragically died very young. Yeah. After his death. So I have no idea like how, how conscious Bill Evans was in terms of putting this together and this personnel.

I know that this was kind of what they were called like a throw-and-go, thrown together personnel. Yeah. But by the producer, Orrin Keeb News. But I don't, it doesn't sound like it's not a band. That's one of the amazing things about this record. Again, murderers row. It's heavy hitters here.

It's heavy hitters. And then obviously a lot of them have played together at different times, but I don't think all of them had played together. And it's a great lineup. It obviously could have been a great band for many years, a la the jazz messengers or something like that. But I mean, I wonder for Bill Evans in terms of like, you know, that classic trio that he could have very well, Paul Motion and Scott LaFaro played with for the rest of his life

probably would have been the plan and not a bad trio at all to do that with. But with that getting cut off and then him going in many different. different directions after this. He had great trios after that too. I think way, way more known for a trio musician, as a trio musician, supporting vocalists even than for this kind of pickup band Riverside records. It's like the greatest pickup band ever. Yeah, it's incredible. You know, and some musicians were known for like pickup band albums like this, where it's like you go in with a, you know, sketch of what you might want to do, you get the right players together and then you let the improvisation take over. Those are some of my favorite records.

And this is one of those. And I think this is a really interesting record in Bill's discography because you get to hear him in this context. It's almost like a Miles Davis, a mid-50s Miles Davis record without Miles, and with Freddie in there, which is a really interesting. And with guitar too, which is another Bill Evans staple that I'm so happy to hear the great Jim Hall.

So let's, Pito, let's put it in a little bit of cultural context. It was recorded in late 1962. It was released in June, 1963. So when it was released, here were some of the things that were going on. The same month this was released, there was a young musician who released his first single, Little Stevie Wonder, ever heard of him, was 13 years old and released fingertips,

which would become his first hit album, his first hit record. It would be the first number one that wasn't a studio recording, that was a live in-concert recording, fingertips. And incredible, incredible. incredible document. Great soul on that. Great soul on that. The number one movie at the box office was Cleopatra

with good old Liz. Was that Elizabeth Taylor? Interesting. What husband was she on at that point? Am I allowed to ask? That was early on, right? Well, that doesn't mean it wasn't, it was three or four probably.

One of the Burtons. The top TV show was... Lamar. No. Was the Beverly Hillbillies. Now, how could that be? because that was a hit TV show when I was a kid. I guess that was reruns.

It was reruns, man. And the president was JFK. So that's all the kind of like broad pop culture. There was also some political, lots of political things happening. But what I found when I was kind of like going through 1963, here's really what was, you know, for this being a straight ahead jazz album, listen to this release schedule for 1963. Here are some of the top. And these isn't even all of them. These are just some of the big name.

albums that were released. Number one, Jackie McLean, Let Freedom Ring. Volonious Monk, Monk's Dream, Joe Henderson, Page 1, Kenny Burrell, Midnight Blue. Yeah, The Incredible, Jimmy Smith, Back at the Chicken Shack. That's underrated. Sheila Jordan, Portrait of Sheila. Ike, Quebec, blue and sentimental. That's underrated as well. Mingus, the Black Saint and the Ciner Lady. One of his greatest albums. My dad had this next one on vinyl Stan Gets with guest artist, Lorindo Amieta. Dexter Gordon,

Arman in Paris. That's one of my favorite albums ever. Wow. Yeah. John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman. How about that? Tico Hamilton passing through.

Money Jungle. Duke Ellington, Charles, Mingus, Max Roach, Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison, Sextet, Illumination. Dina Washington, back to the blues. The Oscar Peterson trio, Night Train. Nita Simone at Carnegie Hall.

Rosson Roland Kirk, reads and deeds. Bill Evans, Conversation with myself. Another classic Bill Evans. Elefits, Gerald, and Count Bessie, Ella and Bacey. Freddie Hubbard,

Hubtones. Oh, all, Blue No Records. We're not even, we're not even close to being finished. We're just in January releases. Yeah.

Let's see here. Coltrane, Dakar, Coltrane Impressions, Miles Davis, seven steps to heaven. Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, one of my favorite albums ever.

Coltrane ballads. Wait, hold. Just hold on, hold that thought. Horace Silver, Silver, Silver, Sera. I'm not stopping. No, no, no. I have a question that.

So you're saying that in 1963, John Coltrane and Duke Allington was released and John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman. Yeah, and John Coltrane balance. I mean, what? Grant Green, feel in the spirit, Thelonious Monk, Chris Cross, West Montgomery, Boss, Guitar,

Bill Evans Interplay, Herbie Hancock, My Point of View, Stanley Turrentine, never let me go. Lou Donaldson, the Natural Soul. McCoy Tyner, Knights of Ballads and Blues, unrated album. Impulse.

Stan Gets and Louise Bonfa, Albert Eiler. My name is Albert Eiler. And Bridget Bardot. Are you sure you not? Bridget Bardot. Oh, are you sure not looking at the whole 60s, my friend? That's 1963.

That's the best jazz albums of 1963 according to Album of the Year.com. Okay, maybe this album isn't that great now that I hear about all those. There's a time. I mean, this was an incredible, I mean, this is a golden age, obviously. Maybe that's why I had a little bit of trouble finding many reviews of this. They're too busy reviewing John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman and Money Jungle and Jackie McLean. Let Freedom Ring is an album I don't know a lot about actually. I have to give that another list.

I know I've listened to it, but I need to get, I need to dive into some blue note, Jackie McLean, you know. You know what would be interesting would be, because they're always talking about 1959, the greatest year for jazz.

Is this the second greatest year? Or is this, I mean, in terms of volume of greatness, that's a lot. This could be, yeah. Anyway, that's the kind of, the jazz world that this album is getting released into.

One of the great years ever. A good time to have a turntable. That's a great time to have a turntable. That's a great time to have a turntable. table. Yeah. And we're lucky that we still have this album. So that's that. What about some background on the session, Peter, the artist? Okay. So this is always fun for me to think about the musicians and how old they were at the time. Because a lot of times where we will, I got it. Makes us feel old. Well, well, I'm just like, I'm looking at this. I've been around long enough, a little older than you,

my friend, to have met many of these musicians. But normally they would be later on their career. I never met Bill Evans, but I could have because I was nine years old when he passed. passed away. But Jim Hall, I did meet, and Freddie Hubbard, I did meet and got to spend a little bit of time. I actually got to, well. Freddie was the youngest, I kind of did a gig with Freddie Hubbard. Did you really?

Yes. Yeah. It was supposed to be an extended. It's a whole story. I'll tell it another time, but I did get to play with him once. But yeah, this is a very, but I always think about Freddie as a, as an elder states, made incredible players still then. I mean, this was in the, what, early 90s?

It's because, as, well, here on this album, I think he was the early 20s on this album. He was 24. He comes out full. Fully baked. Fully baked. As an artist. Right, right, right. Bill Evans was 32.

Philly Joe Jones and Percy Heath, the rhythm section were both 39. Jim Hall was 31 and Freddie Hubbard was 24. So, I mean, yeah, Freddie was the kid on the session. You would never really get that from the way it sounds. And he recorded some great stuff. I mean, he was an early bloomer. He was one of these like, you know, Clifford Brown, Winton Marsalis, Fatson Navar. I was thinking, oh my God, he's so incredible.

Roy Hargrove. Nicholas Payton. I mean, actually, he's kind of old for being playing so good now that I think about all the great trumpet players. Louis Armstrong, definitely an instrument that seems to sort of be defined by Wunderkind, as we say, in the German-Germanic languages. So you mentioned Undercurrent, which is the wonderful duo record with Jim Hall. That was recorded right after this. And supposedly it was that Oren, keep using this, you know, of course, legend. legendary, you know, Riverside and Milestones, producer, impresario, that he liked this band so much

that he wanted to rebook it, but the only ones that were available for the next session, which was very close by, was Jim Hall and Bill Evans, so they just did duo. I heard that story, but then I also heard that they recorded that right before, so I'm not sure, but anyway, it was right within a few months of each other. Very interesting. And then he had released, it looked like Bill Evans released, you know, he was still kind of of under contract with Verve. And he's so, I mean, he was still in the contract with Riverside, but he released a record

with Shelley Mann on Verve. They sort of let him do that as empathy, which is a great record, 1962. And then the next year, he released How My Heart Sings on Riverside, 1964. So this is right in the middle. That's a great, great trio record. And this record was released as, and we'll talk about this a little bit later, this whole reissues thing, which in the 80s and then really a little bit later when the CDs came out became a big thing.

I got mixed feelings about it, but this was released in 1982 as interplay sessions. We might do some rants about that kind of stuff. But they recorded, I guess, the next day and then one other day close by there with essentially the same band except for Ron Carter instead of Percy Heath on and Zoot Sims. It's funny because I feel like,

and we can get into this a little bit now, but I feel like that era of like, let's change the packaging, let's repackage the music. It's really just the music, right? That's how I feel like these like A&R guys at record companies were thinking in the 80s and the 90s. It's just the music, so we'll repackage it,

but I think what they took for granted was how important the packaging is to everything. But especially to music fans, like how important the cover art is to the experience, how important the liner notes are to the experience. And when we want a reissue, we want this, I do, I want the same thing. Maybe a little more information

or some enhanced features or made. I don't usually want both. bonus tracks unless it's maybe a separate, or at the end, maybe. And that's got to be like... Your face just got all ugly as you're even talking about it. I'm going to rant about bonus tracks because the Spotify release of this has a bonus track in the middle of the album, which is so dumb. Right. I think that was on the reissue actually, too. Because there's a time when that was like, so you could compare them to each other. I remember I bought a CD once that had three versions of each song. And I was just like, this is unlistenable. Like, I've got to keep skipping because I want to

hear the album as as the artist released it. So what I do on Spotify, and I've done it with this album, a little hack for you that's pretty simple and not that technologically difficult. I make a playlist of the album and I take out the alternate track. So the A&R people are going to make me work to make a decent piece of art. I'll show you. It's one step more than I want to do. I'll send you a link. I'm too lazy. I don't want to go through that. So did we even talk about, yeah, recorded July 1962. Who's on the record? Yeah, I guess we did. Jim Hall. Percy Heath. Freddie Hubbard, Philly Joe Jones, recording New York City, you know, produced by Oren Keepe News. I think we should get it and listen to this bad boy.

Absolutely. And then we'll rant. And then we'll talk about how great it is and we'll talk about the ups and downs of it. Love it. And it starts, as many of these great records that we examine here, are we going to do some bad albums in this series? Are we just going to do great albums? We've never talked about that. Let's do some mediocre.

I don't even think we're going to do any mediocre. I mean, why? There's too many great ones. We'll hit the mediocre ones after. All right. So this is the first track, you and the night and the music. Oops.

Let's start at the beginning of it. Can we see the album? So great album. We got to talk about, there's so much great stuff. Like, once we get into the solos, it's going to be crazy. And we're going to listen to those.

But this track, I think it sets up so beautiful. And I thought we could talk just a little bit about what is about this arrangement. Because this is a great tune, great standard, all the tunes on here, except one.

are standards. Yep. But the arrangement is very simple, both the official arrangement, which I'm assuming Bill Evans did, I'm sure he did, with this counter melody from Jim Hall and nice little harmony

between Freddie Hubbard and Jim Hall when they get to the bridge. But there's also the arrangement and the little details that Philly Joe Jones puts in, you know, and it really feels like, I know they did multiple takes on some of these, obviously,

because they've released some of them, but this feels so like, you can almost feel, Philly Joe Jones like kind of getting the tune of the way they're going to play and then saying, okay, I'm going to set it up.

I'm not going to tell anybody what it is. I'm just going to show it to them. I'm going to lay it out for them. He's Philly Joe. He's a master orchestrator. He really is. He really is.

Yeah. So I think with that lens, let's listen to this again and see the little details. First, this is just such a simple cool way to start the record. So those little trams from Bill,

listen to him again because they're in time. Yeah. Bill's trims are always in time. They are. And this is really simple stuffy. playing but he's pulsing

and then the way Philly Joe jumps come So that's that fourth thing right all throughout the sort of minor harmony going back Right

So there Tad Dameron-ish kind of thing Yeah for sure So there already Philly Joe right as they're going back to the second A

I'm going to point it out again Check out what you don't with that little might be getting an award We're going to talk about those Dantan-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-l. Sparse on here. Okay, but like that line right there, has Bill Evans...

I mean, I know, like, this is all... You could recognize this as Bill Evans, but, like, has he ever swinging as hard as he is right here? Maybe equaling this. Is he ever swinging harder than this? Give me an example. Check it out. His cornered a line after this.

Like that. But, do, do, do, do. I mean, just simple. Like, because to me, it's always, like, if you can play something really simple, with quarter notes in this kind of time and it's swinging, that's not the easiest thing to do. It's one thing to be like,

stebo-do-do-do-do-da, you know. Is that swing? Exactly. You know, I don't know. I like it. This line right here. Out of two piano. Okay, so that like,

just show up on the, just show up in the solo break with that. Come on now. Yeah. I mean, like, the confidence of his, the swag. Dude. Is that swagglicious? I don't know.

It should be. Do we have a swagometer? We need a swagometer for that. But, okay, so let's just talk about this break, too, because this is kind of cool. It's just moving in the cycle of circle of, cycle of force of these dominant F sharp B. It's like almost like the, that thing, but extended out. But the rhythm of it, bump, deep. four, one, two, three, four, two, three, four, two, three,

gang, gang, gang. But the little details, and they're different each time that Philly Jojo, like, the way that he sets it up, it's almost like a big band drummer. And sometimes he does nothing, but like the confidence of the beat, and I, you know, like, we know as players, like, when a drummer does that, whether they're going to play, and I always think about Greg Hutchinson, shout out, Greg, he's going to show up later in this episode. But, like, he's got that ability to either play something or not play something.

something. So you have the element of surprise in terms of the setup, but you've got the stability, like some drummers play setups because they need them to be able to like really feel the groove and there's not something happening if they're not playing. But great drummers, you know, are able to either play it or not pull it. It's like you're pulling the rug. You're not pulling it out from the other, from the soloist. You're like pulling and say, come over here. Let's go over here. I'm going to pull you with it. And it's very exciting, you know. Well, and the grounding part of That too is Percy Heath on the fundamental just being rock solid. Yes.

I mean, Philly Joe and Percy Heath is a dream team right there. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. So we can check out Freddie. It's just swaggy. It doesn't go one. It's like perfect. So beautiful.

Man, that's just, he's just totally just, just, just tipping until he's not. And then he's destroying. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's like that pull the rug, like when you establish the groove and the swing, with that much swag in terms of the rhythm section. And I'm glad you mentioned Percy Heath. We can't forget about like that. It's relentless.

But when you have it established like that, you can do crazy shit like that. You know what I mean? I mean, like that's like, it sounds like the drums fell over, whatever, but it's just, it's so interesting and exciting. And it's a setup going into the bridge. Yeah.

But it's like a preset because it doesn't go right to it's not like, it's not like, shzak, bang. It's nothing like that. It's like, shflak, and that. And that first chorus, maybe even the second chorus, too, He's just locked in. He's riding the ride. He's in the pocket.

Yeah. And then that you can tell on this chorus, he's like, I'm going to take a gear up. I'm going to get obtrusive. Yeah. I'm going to get in there. He's aggressive. Sound from Jim Hall. Listen to how he's going to use range.

So he stayed low. Right. His alternative is going to start going up in the soprano. It's just such an interesting way because they could have just, Boo, boo, boo, baby, and ended it there. But they went back to you know, they did all that stuff

and then that, yeah. So good, man. So good. You'll hear it. On Bill's. On Bill's solo, which I know we'll hear plenty of as the album goes on. But what you hear is like,

you hear a couple of Bill Evans'ism. He wasn't doing the sort of like breaking off of like, like, like he wasn't doing the sort of playing off of one, but he did do a few times that sort of like, like these quarter note triplets. That's a sound that you're going to hear from Bill a lot.

And then the sort of like, you know, these kind of like descending, I guess those are triplets too, but there's like. And then we even heard like a little bit of a, like one of those flares. Right. Right before that swinging line that you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

One of his little like rushes up. Maybe we'll come back to this. It's my altered scale. But his execution level very high on the solo. Yes. Like there's almost like you always think when you listen to something like this over and over, if it's interesting enough to want to listen to it, I think, and improvise solo because we always think about like, well, a solo that you hear live,

you know, it's like a one time only event. And so on a studio record, it's like you're capturing that or a live record. And you would think, oh, it wouldn't be that interesting, but well crafted, you know, to listen to over and over again. But when they're well crafted like this and you can hear all these different things, and if you listen to it enough, I start thinking that I kind of know what he's going for. You know, I'm never sure. I mean, for everybody. It's not just like, oh, I'm a pianist or whatever, for anybody playing. And sometimes it can be very exciting.

And I think of certain things that Miles Davis would play where he'd like almost hit it. And then you get like, he's executing on the macro level in terms of the story. Obviously, Master's Musical Storyteller, Miles Davis. But sometimes just technically you can hear he's not quite executing what he's going for. But then he goes for it again, which is super interesting. This soul, and Bill Evans does that sometimes. But this solo, to me, is just super interesting because it's like everything he tries to do. He just does it and does it well.

But I think in a lot of ways, everybody's kind of, I mean, like that's sort of Freddie Hubbard's thing, especially during this, well, during this period, pretty much all the, I mean, he was a mass. I mean, like, everybody on here is really good at executing. And then Philly Joe Jones being kind of that constant, like, he's almost like a prod. You know, like, he's the one in the group that's like, come on, come on, come on, come on. But because he's playing so well, he's comping so well, Jim Hall, Bill Evans, giving him a lot of space on like that Freddie solo to really be, you know, to give a lot of flair and finesse.

And, you know, it's really everybody's rewarded for it. So cool, man. Are there any liner notes or reviews? The liner notes, well, when we talk about the accruciamals, we're going to talk about the weird. I should have found my original album because that is floating around. But there's part of the liner notes are on the cover. We'll talk about that a little later.

But I do have this review from all music. This is from Tom Jurek that I thought was interesting. It could just sort of set things up a little bit. Interplay stands as some of Bill Evans' most enigmatic and unusual music in makeup as well as execution. It was recorded in July. 1962 with a very young Freddie Hubbard from the Jazz Messengers. That's right. See, that's some good context.

He's still playing with the, I guess he, you know, yeah. Well, he was either just coming out of there or Blake in the Jazz Messengers. Guitarist Jim Hall, bassist Percy Heath and drummer Philly Joe Jones performing five veteran standards. Evans has a more blues-based approach to his playing.

Harder, edgier, and in full flow, fueled in no small part by Hall, who is at his very best here swinging harder whether it be a ballad or an uptempo uptemple number. Hubbard's playing, on the other hand, was never so restrained as it was here. I'm not sure if I totally agree with that, but using a mute most of the time, his lyricism is revealed to jazz listeners for the first time. With Art Blakey, it was a blistering attack of hard-bop aggression.

On this program of standards, however, Hubbard slips into them quite naturally without the burden of history. Check his reading and improvisation on when you wish upon a star. Ironically, it's on the sole original, the title track where the band in all its restrained swinging power can be heard best through the rest, though the rest is striking finger-pop and hard-bop jazz

with stellar crystalline beauty in the ballads. Oh, man, that's beautiful. Well, that takes us to our bangers, and maybe we could check out I think what, well, no, this is not the sleeper banger. We're going to say for my banger, Peter. Yep. You call it an audible?

Well, no. and this is, I know, this is your banger for a solo, but let's check out the title track of Interplay, because I think this is, this might be the, besides you and the night in the music, sorry, producer Caleb, coffee on the table, besides you and the night and the music,

which I think is the winner of the album track-wise. Yeah. That opening track is magnificent. It's magnificent. But I think Interplay is in the running for the, you know, maybe the second, the second greatest track.

And I know we have a bit of Bill's solo transcription for our YouTube folks here. But maybe we can just listen to the track first and then we can check out Bill Solo. It's interesting that you talk about those two because that would be our Spotify bangers in terms of number of plays. Those are the highest.

The people know they know. You and the night and the music can. It's also the first track and the title track. So it could just be people randomly clicking. Here's interplay. It's hard to solo break up. Because we can actually look at a little transcription. That would be interesting on this solo

coming up with Bill Evans. But yeah. So it's a minor blues, but you don't really know it's a minor blues until the solo starts. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then even there, they kind of ease their way in. So, like, that's a very interesting way.

It's almost coming out of this, you know, there's all this counterpoint going on over the melody. It's in two feel, obviously. There's the hinting at the groove and that they're going to go to. It certainly sets out. It's not like, what's going on? It makes sense when it goes into it. And then I thought there's some just masterful stuff. the gym that everybody's doing. But Percy Heath at the beginning when he's just

do-d-d-d-d-d-d- I think he's up here when he's walking, when he starts walking, he stays on that F for a long time, which really heightens things and then Jim Hall plays off that grade. A lot of cool. It's almost like, let's play a minor blues at a jam session and just, you know, a guitarist is playing too many choruses. Like, this is everything that's going right with playing too many choruses. It's a great sounding album, too. Sound is so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So should we look at a little bit of...

Yeah, let's check out Bill's solo transcription. Can we pull up the transcription here? And we'll see... Boom, there we go. Chano is out of tune. The piano's not in tune. Okay, would you call that... That...

Um... Is that a Bill Evans-ish kind of line there? Yeah, kind of is. Okay. I don't know if I would call that a G-flat major 7, but yeah, that's kind of a Bill Evans. I think Percy Heath outlines that a couple of times. Yeah, I was wondering if that. Was it a dominant 7?

I think it's not what Bill Evans is playing there, but like, check out Percy Heath. He's just playing to try it. But then he goes to. On other ones, they do play major, but. This is very Bill Evans phrasing here on this. this, that hole, right? And to end before the down beat, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And then to pick it back up. That's a very bill way to phrase rhythmically. The da-a-dot he's done on so many recordings. Yeah, that do-b-b-d-b-d-up. And then what that sets you off a bit-dib-d-d-d-n. Nice little blues run coming out going into that D flat. Let's go back in here.

That's a nice sliding. between the 60s to the triplets. Nice stuff there. Nice stuff. Cool. Pretty good. So for my, let's see, you had for your banger track,

You in the Night and the Music, which I agree is the banger. We have Bill's solo on Interplay is your solo. I had from my banger solo, Freddie solo, on you in the night and music, which you've already heard.

I have a little bit of transcription on that if you want to check it. I would love to check it. Okay, let's check it. Boom, this is fun. Shout out to write. You know, you were saying how, like, you know, Bill Evans, you know, to end the Bibba-Dump on that fourth beat is a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is very much a Freddie thing to end on. Baby-Dub-Dub-Dub-up, like on that, on the upbeat of the two, right? This thing here. Yeah, at that last bar, this here. This whole long phrase. Buba-du-up. Yeah, yeah. Whole tone.

Oh, I love it. Okay, he just repeated. Beb-be-b-de-beat-leap. Four times. Yeah, trumpet pitch. You know what? And it didn't seem like too many. Oh, that's third beat.

Still good. Anyway, we listen to this already, but it's just great. You see it, you hear it. Like, Freddy's just, like, I love it when he does stuff. Like, he's one of those players that would just do stuff. When you see it, you're like, oh, yeah, I could do that. But that's that swag that's put on there, that phrasing, that's hard to capture. The king.

the notes. McKing. Yeah. My banger for the track, it might be a little sleeper of I'll never sleep again. Can we hear a little bit of that here? Boom, boom.

By the way, the first take. Yeah, of course. It's actually take seven. Not the bonus. Fake out, right? I got to agree with you. This is a great...

It's a great track. It's a great... The whole album is just really is really killing. The sequencing is great of it. Because I think the spirit, and I love this, I think this was recorded in one day.

I saw conflicting things. But it sounds like if they did in two days or one, like it feels like a record. Well, everybody's putting out three albums a year. They must have. In 1960s, so you got to do. Yeah. But you know what I mean?

Like the spirit of it, obviously that's all swinging and stuff. But even like that interplay, so it's all standards, six tunes, all standards except the one interplay, which really is in danger of being like a, huh?

You know, like, it's kind of a weird, minor blues. But because it's a minor blues, it kind of gets away. with all of that. Yeah, but I mean, like, and I think just the vibe of the session, the sound, like, there's an advantage

to recording everything when the sound is great, of course. The piano's out of tune. Like, you can even feel it getting out of tune on different tracks and stuff, but it's, it's a session. You know, it's a session. Can you play a little bit

another sleeper jam on this as you go to my head? This is an underrated tune, first of all. It's a great tune. And, I mean, normally I love it just as a ballad, but the way they do it here is great. Giant Steps intro.

Makes you think it's going to be a ballad. Oh, Philly Joe has other thoughts. You know, this whole album is full of these like major, minor modal interchanged tunes. Yes, that's right. You have major minor comics. They'll love that, I think. You and the night of music. This trio since you love it so much, Adam.

This would have been an interesting trio, Philly Joe. Yeah. Jim Hall getting a lot of the first solo. I know, but you know what's great about this too? Like you, I can almost remember we were talking about when I was saying like, I feel like I know. after listening to this record a lot or any record a lot, what a soloist is going for?

I kind of feel like I know how this tunes arrangement came about where they're like, well, let's not play down and Bill Evans or whoever was like, all right, Freddie, you take the, you know, he put together that little intro, probably just whatever, came up with the chords,

and then Philly set up the time. And then, you know, Freddie takes the first solo and then Bill Evans, Bill's like, I'll take the bridge. Jim, you get the head going out. And then, you know, it's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very, like, it could be very formulating.

Oh, let's fake them out like it's going to be a ballot at the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But it's just like, because it's so well done, it's like, oh, this is great. And then Philly Joe, I think, is the one who's kind of pulling it all together with that orchestration, which makes it feel like something they thought about for many weeks before the session. Well, this takes us, speaking to Philly Joe and maybe some more superlatives, Peter. So some categories. Categories.

Before we get into the categories, just want to remind you all that this podcast is sponsored by OpenSudio. Go to Open StudioJaz.com. of your jazz lesson needs. Yes, Peter. Yes. No, it's just... Categories. Over underdog. Who's overrated? Who's underrated? What's overrated? What's underrated?

Peter, what do you got? Well, I think this whole record's underrated, first of all. Obviously, I started the damn thing out saying that I think it's his greatest record. That might be hyperbole. That might be totally subjective. But I think the albums are underrated because I just don't hear it talked about a lot. Is it the greatest jazz album of all time? No. Is it as swinging as any jazz album from 19... I thought so. There's a lot. But then when I heard, is it even the best, is it even in the top 10 of

1963? Maybe not. Not according to the best albums.org or whatever that was. Well, no, I mean, just the fact that, you know, Duke Elliott to the John Coltrane, I mean, those are some great albums. But I mean, I think this holds up as, as one of the more interesting and slightly unusual, Bill Evans. I mean, it's an unusual bill. It's a little bit unusual. Although everything he's doing on here is like, yeah, that's Bill Evans. It's just an unusual situation. I think great artists, the same way like Duke Allington Money Jungle with Mingus and Max Roe. That's a weird album and a weird placement. But I love that, like Duke Ellington in that situation.

Yeah. So we just listened to Money Jungle a few weeks ago at our listening session. Yeah. And I've always loved that album and I've been listening to it since I'm a teenager. But as I get older and have heard more and more music, I'm like, this is weird. It's a weird record. It's a weird record. Like you got Mingus just kind of like dropping bombs, exploding all over.

whole session, man. Duke is just trying to swing. Max Roach is always swinging, but like, it's a weird, we should maybe consider doing that one eventually, because it's a strange album. It'd be hard because it's like, it's beautiful, but it's strange. It is, but is it over, it's, it's both overrated and underrated. I think it's, yeah, it sounds kind of bad. Yeah, the, the sound quality is not great, and yet it's haunting somehow. It's a very weird experience. It's weird, it's super interesting. It's not a record that I would say, oh, hand to somebody, this is your first jazz album to listen to. Yeah, that would turn them off to jazz forever, but yeah. Although there's some beautiful play. Or it would hook him for life, depending on the kind of person.

But this record, I think, would be an interesting thing to like give to someone, oh, I've never heard jazz or I want to hear, I mean, obviously you can give them kind of blue, you know, oh, that's, you know, newsflash kind of blue. People like it. But I mean, this is kind of a different, like, if you want it just to some really swinging stuff, I mean, look, hubtones, that was the same year, that's a great, I mean, you can't say like, oh, this is better Freddie playing, but it doesn't get any better than this. Underrated? Is Riverside's cover art in general underrated?

Uno gets all the love. Riverside has some good covers. I think they have some good covers. I don't think this is all the last. Can we look at it again, though? Is this cover overrated? It's not overrated because it's not really great. You don't like the conceptual cover?

I like the bottom half of it. Just having like the liner notes. That's weird. The beginning of it at the top. Like, I like the interplay. the Bill Evans like that offset and I love the stuff the conceptual stuff at the bottom

although it's a little bit like Ozark you know the intro to Ozark to each of the segments of the show Ozark it's fine I would say it's just rated you know it's just it's rated but conceptual cover art in general is underrated I agree and if it had been just the bottom half

obviously you can't just make it big and make it work but I do like it's evocative of the time period I guess it's interesting it's fine So I'm thinking about the Riverside, especially like the Monk, the Brilliant Corners album, where he's like mirrored all over. Yeah. Oh, Riverside has some great stuff. You know, I'm thinking about Monk's music where he's in that radio flyer wagon.

You know, I'm thinking about some of the some of those kinds of things. Oh, fantastic. And they do have just, I'm looking through their catalog now. They do have just like Abby Lincoln with a picture of Abby Lincoln smiling. I will tell you something that's overrated on this album. What's that? The piano tuning or lack thereof. The piano tuning. The Chet Baker,

Chet, where he's just got that lady leaning on it back that we borrowed for one of our videos the other week. No, the piano tuning is... It's not good. It's not good. It's not existent. I mean, it was done at some point, but not in an appropriate manner for the session. I agree. What else do you have? Oh, we were talking... You mentioned earlier overrated. You had a problem, and I was saying that. Bonus tracks. And I can save this for rants, too, but I think the bonus track on this specific release is overrated. You don't need it. And really just reissues in general.

I know this was, there's some interesting stuff on the reissue. It just becomes something else. How about not reissue it? I mean, you can reissue it when you have a new format. I mean, there are...

To change it and add a bunch of stuff. There are levels to reissues. There are some reissues where, especially if it's like an iconic album, they'll reissue it with, you know, some additional reviews and liner notes and behind the scenes photos. That's great.

And like, it's like a box set or a collector's edition. And those are really cool. And then maybe you might get a remaster, which can be hit or miss, depending on way. in what era it was remastered. Right.

I think modern remasters are pretty decent. Like, I'm talking about the last 10 years. Yeah. Like, they can be. They can be. Yeah. But don't they need it always? 90s digital remasters can be hit or miss for sure.

And I think then there's like the money grabbry issue where they just slap like what essentially looks like a stock photo. Right. Of the artist somehow. And like they put in, you know, all of the alternate takes in like so that it's like you know interplay take one take six take five take two like they put them all together so you have these like massive this was mainly done in the late 80s early 90s there were all these horrible reissues right it was sometimes the remastering yeah they were just trying

to get CDs out or someone would would buy a defunct record label or the catalog of a defunct record label and try to press it or they'd press it in another country those can get really in oh those aren't reissues. Those are pirated versions. Bootlegs. Yeah, there's bootleg. That's a level below the printed in the EU issue. Yeah. I think for any reissue, I want to see, like, respect for the album.

There's a reason you're reissuing it. It's because people want it. Respect the tradition. Respect the tradition. It's 40, 50, 60. In this case, this album is you know, this album? I'm 60 years old. Yeah, 60 years old. And like, you know, respect that people

still want to listen to it, reissue it with the and care and people will buy it, you know, or people will, well, no one will buy it. But, you know what I mean? Well, no, but they will, think about what is selling of this? You could, you could spend 45 bucks, I've been on this to get an actual. A beautiful remastered vinyl. Yeah, I would totally, and that's what they're, that's the only thing that's selling. And with the original cover art and maybe an inserted booklet or something, I'd love that.

But no extra music. But that's what's selling. Maybe it's actually great. I mean, if you want to do extra music on a different disc, I'm okay with that, but I don't want to pay 90 bucks for it either. Well, and I think it begs the question, too. Does this record need to be remixed? Rematch, well, it can't be remixed, but remaster, does it need a different cover?

I know I was talking about the cover, but the cover is great. Like, change something if it needs to be changed. Agreed. You know what I mean? The whole point we're talking about, and some records are just not great, don't salvage them. But, I mean, if it's already a complete musical statement, just keep it available and keep on moving. Okay, Apex Mountains. Is this Bill Evans?

I know what you're going to say. Swinging Apex Mountain? I knew you could. I could tell by you a little bit trepidation. Is this Bill Evans tipping apex mountain? Bill Evans will never tip again. No, I mean, I think so. Because the apex, you can go to the apex several times.

I'm going to disagree, man. I think Bill Evans' tipping is 1958, I think in the Miles Davis. Like live at the plaza. I think that's as good as it gets. This is just as good, I think. I don't know. I mean, Apex Mountain. Can we revisit an apex or is it just one time when it goes?

I mean, it's the Apex. So you can have multiple hills for sure. Yeah. I'm going to say yes. That's fine. We can't agree on everything. We can't always be right. In this case, only I can.

But I think Bill is one of these artists, though. If we talk about just Bill Evans, Apex Mountain, I think this is just past probably his apex as far as like the power they did in his career. He had so much to do with the sound and the tone of Kind of Blue, which is one of the most incredible,

you know, renowned jazz albums of all the time. His fingerprints are definitely all over that album. And then coming out of that album. he had this period with portrait like the 6061 62 scolifar portrait and jazz sunday at the village vanguard recorded on the same session yeah uh walter deby recorded in that same period crazy like all of these things happening that were really a creative peak now he went on to make great music for the rest of his life he course tragically dug when he's 51 50 years old yeah uh and had

you know, tons of issues on the way to that. Yeah. Early, sadly early death. But made good music through the 60s, through the 70s. Had other great trios too later. In the 70s. Live at Montreux. Collaborations with vocalists and other musicians.

And so, but I think this was just past maybe his apex for his apex mountain. Well, I would agree in terms of like Bill Evans, maybe the apex mountain of his creative output was that's 59, 60, 61, 50, you know, like, especially with his trio. 59 to 62 probably. Yeah. But Apex Mountain, I would say specifically for Bill Evans swinging his ass off, I would say, is that this? And he's not, I mean, look, he's a swinging pianist, but he's not, I mean, he's not known as,

like, Oscar Peter's swing in his piano. And so. He's got a different texture. Yeah. Here's something that I've posed to you, Peter. Yes. Could you make a point that we just saw. 1963, Freddie Hubbard, he's a young man, but he's an art, Blake, he's band.

Yeah. He releases Hubtones. He's on this album. Is this Freddy's apex? A young Freddy. Yeah, could be. Is this his year? Yeah.

So he was on a down swing after this? That's, well. Because when you're at the apex, I think it might have been the beginning. Well, no, because he was art. He'd done some great stuff the year before. I mean, I think, of course, CTI. Of course. That whole thing, he does amazing albums.

Yeah, he had some. Everybody, every long-term artist who's around for a while is going to have some, some peaks and valleys. But this is a pretty high peak for Freddie, even though he's young. It's definitely his first peak. Yeah. And this might be his highest, even.

Could be, could be. Yeah. What about, is this Apex Mountain? I'm going to throw a crazy one out there. Okay. Apex Mountain for piano, effective piano and guitar comping throughout an album. So including when you're playing together as compers,

when you're making a decision who's going to comp, and when you're going to make a decision when nobody's going to comp. It's hard. trying to think about other albums that have piano and guitar that aren't just... Freedom in the groove? Well, Freedom of the Groove. Oh, that's when you're on.

Peter Bernstein? You and Peter Martin, little double Peter connection, Peter Bernstein? Yeah, we did some trading off. But this is better. You're kind of slightly joking because you're on that record, but there's a case to be made for that. You and Peter Bernstein have a great vibe together. No, that's not why I said, okay, fine. That's a good point.

We should actually listen to Freedom in the Groove. Put in some of my concepts... If you would listen to Freedom in the Groove, because it's a great album. That's a great. That's a classic album that you happen to be on, but you had nothing to do. I'm just kidding. No, but you and Peter Bernstein, I think that's a good case. I can't think of another album, and please put it in the comments. I'm sure there's lots of albums with piano and guitar where they're comping for other people and intermixing. But there's not a ton. It's usually like the Oscar Peterson Trio. You got Herb Ellis and Oscar Peterson Ray Brown. The comping on that is obviously great, but they're

often comping for each other. Exactly. Yeah, and then you have duo albums. I think Bill Evans and and Jim Holland, undercurrent, incredible. But they're not comping, they're not making decisions about who's going to comp. Comping for each other. And I'm sure I'm missing plenty of great examples. But yeah, put in the comments what you think. And then the only other thing I was thinking for Apex Mountain is a ridiculous one.

But Philly Joe Jones just swinging his ass off. Is this Apex Mountain? No. No, because he always did that. I think he always did. And I think he's on better albums where he's swinging. Ooh, shots fired. I like it.

I like it. Is it Apex Mountain for Riverside Records? I mean, just too many great Riverside records to say that. How about some awards, Peter? The Oscar Peterson Award for Overplaying Goes 2. I mean, I got to say Philly Joe Jones because he's busy. And again, this is a beautiful award. This is a respectful award.

We use the word overplaying in conjunction with Oscar Peterson, the master of the artful overplaying. I was going to nominate Jim Hall, not because he's stepping on anybody's toes, but he's got the first solo on like three of these five tracks. Yeah, that's true. And he does have some long solos. You got Bill Evans,

whose album it is, and you got Freddie Hubbard, arguably the greatest soloist of the year. I know. And like Jim Hall's kicking. I love Jim Hall, but like... But I think because he,

I got to give it to Philly Joe over Jim Hall because Jim Hall shows a lot of restraint at other times in terms of his comping. He's a tasty musician. There's no doubt about them. Yeah, Philly Joe is just constantly overplaying in all the right ways. I'm so glad he did. The John Coltrane Thft Award,

who stole this album? Philly Joe Jills. I think Freddie. I think Freddie might have stole it. I think Freddie might have stole it. The Cecil Taylor taken an out award. I mean, I probably,

probably Freddie Hubbard. Because like there's not a lot of... Nobody's taking it out, really. I mean, interplay is kind of weird a little, but it's not really out. And like the way that they're playing over the blues is very... Like, that's the only time

they kind of dab their toe in a little bit of so-called modal playing, which is weird, because we're coming out of supposedly the modal period. and all that. You can argue Philly's taking it out. He takes it. Actually, with that, dropping the weird bombs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's moments.

Yeah. So Philly gets, Philly gets all the awards. He was in a mood, Philly that day. You can tell. A new category, new award, MVP, who won the album? Oh, winner. Who's the winner, winner, winner, chicken. Well, I mean, I think Bill Evans because his album wins, but in terms of playing or who gets the benefits. I think Freddie comes out the winner. I think he is the one who shines the hardest, the brightest.

I mean, he's a Trump player. But his playing is so brilliant on this whole album. They're all playing the same standards, and he makes them shine so hard. You might be right. I would just say that's primarily a product of the trumpet. Like, if everything else is equal, and you can make an argument that, like, you can't say that Freddie Hubbard is playing any better relative to his very high-level skills than Philly Joe Jones is in relation.

Like, you maybe couldn't say this is either one of their greatest playing, but it's like at 98%. It's like, in other words, like, Freddie is who we thought he was on this. But Philly Joe is who we thought he was. And Bill Evans, everybody, Percy Heath, I think because it's trumpet, if everything else is equal and everybody's killing it, the trumpet's going to come out on that. First call subs for piano. I think it would be interesting to hear this album with Witton Kelly. That would be awesome.

He would do, do it. Or you have here Red Garland. Yeah. I think is a great choice. Those are big influences, obviously, on Bill. Base. Wait, you know what? Are we going by instrument?

Okay, cool. Herbie Hancock could be a first-call sub at this time as well. Yeah, that would be interesting. Can we fly somebody in from the future? Who you got? How about a little Brad Meldow? Is that too expected? I was going to say, there are some similarities.

I know Brad Meldell that doesn't like to be compared to Bill Evans, but I think there are some- Brad Meldow, front of the show until today. Well, no, no, no. But I think that, like, as much as Bill had his own sound with his own group, Brad has this, like, legendary trio sound that he made of his own thing, which is not like Bill at all, but it's like his own thing. But then Brad will go in.

and do these other albums where he's like in this different scenario. I think there is a little similarity in that. And I think, no, I don't think, this is, Witton Kelly would sound, come in and knock this out of the park. Yeah. Okay, that's why he said first goal. But he's another, it would be interesting. Base, the maestro, Ron Carter comes up every single episode.

He's on Donnie Hathaway. He's on this. I think every record could be Ron Carter. But he was on the other part of the session that they released. Was he right? Yeah, him and Zoot-Sims. That's the only difference. And then you'd have to say Paul Chambers, you know.

Yeah, of course. he would be a natural. And I mean, a bunch of, actually, there's a bunch of bass players. I couldn't see anybody doing it any better, though, than Heath on this. But, you know, it's great. Drums. Well, Jimmy Cobb would come to mind, Art Taylor. Yeah.

But I got to tell you. Art Taylor would be awesome. And when I mentioned him already, I would say Greg Hutchinson would be my number on call. Flying him in for the future again. Just because he's so like, I could just hear him playing over this. So I'm biased because I've played with him a lot. I love his playing, Sumi. Yeah.

But, I mean, like, he could come in and do this. this. Now, he has the benefit of studying Philly Jones Records and this record and, like, his style and everything. Yeah. So, um, it wouldn't necessarily be that, it would be different. But I mean, like, he would kill it pretty much as hard as Philly. And I don't say that about a lot of people.

Trumpet, you've got here, you've got Lee Morgan, which is a weird choice, but good, I think. Who else could do it? Miles. No. Miles could come in and crush this. He could, he would, it would be so different. It would be so different. That's a weird sub. That's a weird sub. No one ever called Miles and sub. Lee Morgan could like, actually,

Like, guitar, West Montgomery, obviously, is the obvious choice. I think it would be interesting to hear Grant Green on a session like this, at this time specifically would be interesting. How about a little Peter Bernstein here since we're talking in the future? I love a little Peter Bernstein, that's great. A lover of Jim Hall, obviously. Joe Pass. Joe Pass.

That would be interesting. Okay, bespoke genre names. You go first. I got mid-century change-up. And I call it a change-up. This is a bespoke genre just for this album. This is mid-century change-up music. It's not mid-century pop.

It's right in mid-century, and it is a change-up from Bill Evans' normal sound. Like you said, this is kind of an outlier sound for Bill Evans, a different kind of sounding record, and that's what I called it that mid-century change-up. Okay. I've got modeless swing. That's better. That's better. It's just funny. Modeless swing in, and I think the lack of modality on this is interesting.

I wouldn't put an A in it, honestly. It doesn't really warrant an A. It's not that swinging. I'm a modeless, swaggy swing. That's what I wanted to do. All right. Acuchamolz. Yeah, the album cover we talked about

and the title is just it's fine. It's fine. I mean, it's probably like, it's the only time you can do it and I would be kicking myself if no one had used it and then I was like,

oh, interplay, interchained, you know. Hot takes. What do you got, Peter? Philly Joe Jones can swing on the drums. Hot take. Effortlessly. 1963 was a friggin' amazing year for music.

Hot take. Yeah. Bonus tracks suck. Hot take. Oh, that's a rant. Oh, rant. Hot take slash rant. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Reissues, bonus tracks, screwing up a classic record.

Like, do all that with a crappy record that needs improvement. They'll never do that because it's like, let's take something. And, you know, it's kind of like, Beverly Hills Cop 3. Why is that out now? That's a rant for you. Can I rant about just other things in my life that I don't like?

Hot, Hot take. Here's a hot take. Pick up albums, sometimes just as good as well-fell. thought out arranged concept albums. Sometimes way better. It could also be a rant. Pickup albums suck. In this case,

pickup albums are great. I love a pickup album. Snobometer. Snobometer. Okay, super interested to hear what you're going to say because for me, this is tricky because, so it's Bill Evans,

so the snobometer goes off the charts in a lot of ways. Snobs love it. He's the ultimate, you know, a recipient of snobbingness. I would say this is high on the snobometer. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's not Bill Evans classic trio, so that might push it down. I think it kind of higher for the song. Oh, that's true. Like, for me, it does. I'm a kind of weird kind of snob. You are a weird snob. Like, you like some kind of mainstream things for sure. Right.

You know, your favorite pianist is Herbie. It's not like some kind of little, like Elmo Hope or someone. I love Elmo Hope. I know you do, but your favorite pianist is Herbie. I know, I know. But who's your favorite pianist? Herbie. I'm in the same boat.

Snobometer. Snobometer. No, but it's like, but then when you pick, well, See, you pick secrets, and I might pick, like, possibilities or one of his more, or, uh, Joni, the Joni letters. He's, that's a snob. That's a snob. That's a Herbie Snob right there. But it's an anti-snob, I liked him way later. Well, no, but I would direct you to my 10 greatest jazz albums of all time, which are all offbeat numbers, including this album Interplay, which makes an appearance on there. Yeah, I think this is high because it's a little lesser known. It's not Portrait and Jazz. It's not Sunday at the Vanguard

it's not waltz redepi right like this is like swangers like that's right you know what i'm snobby swanguer it's got a snobometer rating i think that's pretty high is it better than kind of blue it is not it's not it's it's in the it's in the same it's in the melb along with it is it is not triple a it's a it's a mid-level team if kind of blue is the cardinals yeah not not the 2024 cardinals but the franchise is a whole as a whole so what you're saying is there's one alabre you're saying is there's one them. There's one team better, the Yankees, of all time, than the Cardinals. So you're saying, K-O-B is the second greatest

of all time. No, they don't count. I can't believe I just said that. I'm going to lose all my St. Louis Street credit. American League isn't a real league. Right. All right. Should we listen to the final track? Yeah, let's go out on the final track.

This one's an interesting one. And, I mean, this was fun. Yeah, man, good call. Some people may view this as, like, I mean, compared to the other albums that we've been doing as, like, a less obvious choice. a little bit under the radar. But I think in terms of just loving, I mean, look, if you listen to it, you don't love it, you don't.

But hopefully this is turning some people on. That's always fun to have something that you know a lot of people haven't heard. So wrap your troubles and dreams. Until next time, you'll hear it. Good hi-hat work there.