You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Blue" – Joni Mitchell

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Joni Mitchell’s Blue, a folk masterpiece, has inspired jazz musicians since its release in 1971. Is it because she sings like a horn player? Her improvisational melodies? Her unconventional chord structures? Her confessional songwriting?We dive into every song on Blue, breaking down her favorite chords and her vocal phrasing to understand what makes this album great. You’ll never hear this record the same way again.Watch to the end to see the Open Studio band’s extended interpretation of our favorite song off this record: “River.”You'll Hear It has been nominated for a Listener's Choice award for Best Music Podcast at the Signal Awards. Vote for us here: https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2025/shows/genre/musicGet our newsletter for bonus stories that didn't make the pod:https://youllhearit.com/newsletterStart your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://osjazz.link/yhi 

Hey, Adam. What's up, Peter? Today we're covering Joni Mitchell's classic record, Blue. Nice. Or as the French say, bleu.

Do they? Yes, they do. So what I was thinking is, we could play actually my favorite song, and I'm hoping just kind of the vibe that I'm setting up will be evocative. What does this sound like to you? Maybe this will clue you into what I'm playing.

No, no, it's giving me, like, water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, go with that, flowing water. Floating water. Like out in nature? Fawcett? No, no, no, no. Outside. Creek?

Close. Like the Mississippi. Delta. No. The Nile? Is a state of mind, but it's not an excuse. You should remember. Let me just play it for you. Okay. Oh, California.

Yeah. No. I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Music Explored. Explored brought today by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJad.com for Oh, your jazz lesson needs? Yes.

Peter, the album that we're listening to, the album that we're talking about today, ranks number three on Rolling Stones. Greatest blues albums of all time. I think you might be confused, my friend. It's not really a blues album, but it is an album called Blue. Oh, gotcha.

By Joni Mitchell. Yes. Number three on Rolling Stones' top 500 albums of all time, which of course, Peter means that. It means nothing. Let's be clear. No, I mean, it means something. It means something, I guess, culturally.

But is it really the third greatest album ever made? We'll talk about it. We're going to talk about that, but that's much later. First, we're going to explore this masterpiece. It is a masterpiece. It is an incredible document of a very young singer-songwriter in the early stages, not super early stages of her career, but definitely like early peak of Joni Mitchell's career.

Fourth album, I believe, third or fourth album? Yeah, 1971. We're really stretching out from, in terms of time periods. Would you say 1970 to 71? Yeah, no, we usually focus between 72.75. So this is a real departure for us, 71. Yeah, no, this is an incredible work.

This is like, they always say, you know, when a genius gets their heartbroken, some of the best art gets made. Like, I remember someone saying that about that Beck album C-change. Like, he had his heartbroken and he makes this beautiful masterpiece. And this is some similar stuff here. Joni's going through a lot of like

sort of personal relationship things and she is probably more well equipped to write music about it than anybody on the planet at this time. Yeah. And she writes an amazing amount of very personal, very beautiful, very melodic, which we'll talk about. Yes.

Songs. Yeah. And they're recorded very simply. Yeah. And it works. Absolutely. Yeah, she's obviously wearing her heart on her sleeve and we're all to the benefit of it on this record and a lot of her output over the years really I mean very personal very

very human very interpersonal right you know she's very she's so eloquent and but just so artistic in her delivery of the composition and the performances on this album both you know

guitar piano and obviously vocals yeah she said that all of her albums are concept albums and the concept for blue is blue, as in she was feeling very blue at the time that she wrote it, she was very, very sad. It's among some of her most vulnerable work and she talks about a dream she had

that she was on stage and she was just like, sitting on stage is a bag of organs, essentially. Like you could see right through her, which is kind of gross. Hammond B3 organ? Yeah. But there's a whole,

there's lots of stories behind these songs that we can talk about. She had, when she was making this, she had just broken up with Graham Nash. Yeah. She had a little bit of a relationship going with James Taylor.

Yeah. And so there are songs about Nash. There's songs about James Taylor. She was about to get with Steve Nash from the Phoenix Sun. Never happened. Different Nash. Different Nash. Anyway, let's get to listening.

Yeah. Yeah. This is the first track. This is apparently about the relationship that she was having at the time that she recorded this with the great James Taylor. This is all I want. Traveling, traveling, traveling. Looking for something.

What? Oh, I hate you some. I hate you some. I love your song. I forget about. Stoggins in some jukewarm. I don't usually talk like this, but we don't write melodies like this anymore in popular music.

You know what I mean? There's no albums in popular music. Like, I love this young crop of singer-songwriters that are around now, artists making music. But nobody's writing melody. I mean, to be fair, too, nobody was really writing melody. I was going to say, yeah, that's the difficult. with this was, I mean, yeah, there was

some, can we say, was that a more fertile period? Did songwriters have more of a focus knowing that they were going to go in and record it themselves in the studio without a lot of, I mean, there was definitely technological assistance in terms of being able to cut things together, layer

overlap and that kind of thing, but in terms of like fixing, and you could fix vocals, certainly for sure, but in terms of like really technologically altering it, no, like, the emotion, the feel had to come out of the melody, out of the lyrics, out of the harmony, I think in a way that was closer to the artist and to the songwriters hard on their sleeve

as they wrote it. Yeah, well, but just also, I mean, she's, and this is going to be a theme running through this whole episode, I feel like, but she sings like a horn player. You know what I mean? She lists some... She moves around melodically, like, I know what you're saying. Yeah, like it's like she has buttons on her voice,

like a saxophone, right? and she could just hit the octave button and go up. Heart on her sleeve right with the button there. I got you. Okay. That's right. But it's just fantastic to listen to the whole time. And she does things that melodically, the traveling, traveling, traveling,

that you would hear, I think, a horn player interpret a melody more than even a jazz vocalist or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's like that improvisational. Like she wasn't necessarily improvising, I think, over that, but it has that improvisational flair to it. You know, it's not, like, when you look at her melodies in sheet music, it's kind of confusing. Like, it doesn't, it would be very difficult for,

and I mean, her, a lot of her compositions are notoriously hard to sing. Yeah. You know, I mean, in terms of, like, you have to be a fantastic technical singer. Forget about even the, you know, kind of emotion and being able to handle the melodies and the lyrics, but just in terms of being able to make the jumps and the leaps, that's all there within that. But for her, I think it didn't,

it's the type of thing that it sounds way easier than it is. Like a lot of great artists are able to pull that off. And then like a lot of great jazz vocalists, too, she's got all these incredible timbers that you just don't hear in a lot of the other, I think, what you might call that California folk rock scene of the late 60s, early 70s. And she's talked about this too.

She's talked about the most influential album in her life up to this point, was Lambert Hendrickson Ross album, the hottest new group in jazz. So if you don't know Lambert Hendricks and Ross, they were like a super popular trio of singers in the 60s. This is from that album that Joni says she knows every note of. I think 66, is that right?

Yeah, maybe even earlier. I mean... Because of all the trouble I see. John Aaron's. Life's a losing gamble to me. Yes, Lord. Cares and words have got me moment. Yes Lord

Every evening Man, John Henry. There's such a direct line with Harry Belafonte to Hendricks too, you know. I mean, of course, all the jazz... We got to do a hairy episode. Harry Belafonte is one of my all-time favorites.

But yeah, this is a record that influenced a lot of pop singers, folk singers, you know, obviously jazz shoe, but this was such a big crossover. The Lambert Hendricksson Rossi. Yeah, I mean big. I mean, as big as it could crossover

in that mid or early 60s period. super, super influential two vocalists in particular. So that first song was about James Taylor. By the way, James Taylor playing guitar on it. Yeah. Kind of awkward, probably. Playing a guitar as your girlfriend. Who's like, who was me?

Yeah. Was it me? Was it Stills? Was it Nash? Was it young? Well, Nash is coming up. Okay. But Joni's playing on this album.

She's playing most of the instruments on most of the songs. So she's playing the Appalachian Dulcimer, which I believe we just heard there on that first track. The guitar, the piano, and vocal. vocals, of course. James Taylor plays guitar on that last track and a couple others. The next song, one of my favorite songs of the album, this might make my desert

island, I don't know, Peter. Mild Man? Mild Man is apparently about Graham Nash. Joni broke up with Nash around the time she was writing this album. She broke up with him via Telegram while she was in Crete. That's got to hurt. Which we'll talk about later. Where she was living in a cave with a group of hippies. It was 1970.

You know what I mean? I remember 70. No, you don't remember anything. I was born late in the 70. This is my old man. This is an amazing melody as well. Again, with Philippe's. Yeah. I mean, it's, oh, it's, yeah. It's unmajor sevens. I mean, heard intonation. He's a walker in the rain. He's a dancer in the dark. A little minor there. Yeah. It's a little bluesy, a little bluesy vibe.

That's a great, that's a great line. Sunshine and a morning firework sit there. It's the warmest chord I ever heard. Play that. City hall. And where it sits in a range too. Yeah. Amazing.

Could you have a big pop hit nowadays with this kind of a vibe as the second tune? That wouldn't be, you couldn't pull that off. I don't know. It would be tough. But again, like that melody like, What was that? Oh, you got the octave down.

I was doing my blues gag. Do do bad. Bambu da da da. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that chromatis is in there. That's a straight up dominant seven. Yeah.

She slides from those major sevens to the dominant sevens. effortlessly with the melody guiding it, you know? Yeah, man, really, really special. Yeah, and her intonation, I mean, is obviously spot on. But she has that purity in her voice, that sweetness, but there's also a depth to it, even as it goes up into the really high ranges. And, you know, her voice, like many, like most singers, I guess, came down over the years.

But I think, I don't know if this is a thing that the higher your range is, the more it comes down. But it really changed. I mean, like in the 80s, it's like a different, I mean, it's the same, Joni Mitchell, you hear that. But it really changed how, because I think these specific keys and these specific leaps, it was all tailored around her voice.

You know what I mean? Like, that's what she was such a great personal writer for herself. And then she was like the, you know, she made the stamp, she put it on and she delivered it. Yeah. She delivered the mail. Same thing with the harmony, like catering around her voice, catering around her melodies.

Yeah. And she does. The harmony follows the melody. Always. follows the melody. And it's not stupid. She doesn't do it in a stupid way, where it's just like this egregious thing that can sometimes happen when you put a lot of modal interchange, right, when you're going between major and minor. Looking at myself. She does it incredibly tastefully, and she does it dynamically with the melody. And it doesn't,

it just sounds sophisticated. It doesn't sound like it's an intellectual flex. Right. It sounds like, yeah, this is where this should go. also I love the way she uses chords on the piano. I don't know if you hear some of these, but she loves like these kinds of chords, right? Polycord. Right, like a triad that moves over these kinds of chords. Yeah.

It's like an A over a G and F over an E flat over F, right? So Suss chords, or you might call them Sharp 11 chords, but they're really just like she loves moving this triad over these roots in these unexpected ways. And we'll hear that for the rest of the album. Polychord, I think, is when there's like literally two chords on top of each other. So it'd be like a D over an E flat.

Ah, got you. Oh, I've been calling that wrong, only for 54 years. I think it's a slash chord technically. Slash chord because there's like a F over E flat. Okay, gotcha. Oh, from Guns and Roses. You know, I heard he had a tour bus and it smelled awful.

Should we tell that story? No. Okay. The next track, the third track, is a track called Little Green. Yes. Joni wrote this song Little Green about the daughter she gave up for adoption when she was 20 years old. And she kept that adoption secret for decades

until a college friend spilled the story to a newspaper in the 90s, and she began a public search to reunite with her daughter. Thanks, college friend. They were reunited in 1997 and have remained close since. Can you imagine finding out... Nosey Nancy, the roommate from college.

First of all, you find out... You find out you were adopted because I don't think she knew she was adopted. And then you find... No, I think she knew... She didn't know. was Joni Mitchell. She didn't know it was Johnny Mitchell.

I know. Yeah. It's a little green. Bo, answer. Choose her a name. She will answer to. That's that major seven and down.

And the winters cannot fade her. To the two four. For the children who've made her little. Another major seven thing. Be a gypsy dancer. A little four. Yeah, hearing that everything's warmer So you write him a letter and say

Her eyes are blue, he sends you a poem And she's lost to you Beautiful. There's a little nerdy harmonic thing. What key are we in here? I think we're at B, but she's, She tuned her guitar very unconventional. So this was between keys probably here.

Unless this is off, but it's that It's so different than a record. It's killing me. Maybe B flat is closer. But there's an interesting thing that happened here. But it wouldn't have been B. Again, I think it's like an F sharp over B. Like it's not a straight up major 7.

I believe it's that kind of sound. Or might even just be F sharp and A sharp over a B. But that was the D sharp was in there for sure. You think so? I heard it, yeah. Anyway, the cool harmonic movement she does is she goes from this major 7 to like you said, like one of her moves to the dominant seven.

Yeah, but with the melody leading it. With the melody leading it. And typically from here you would go to the four, right. Which she goes to later. Later she does. But the first two times she goes up to the two. Yeah, it's great. Which is not the obvious choice.

Which nothing she does is like the obvious choice, which makes it so special. It is the relative minor of the four. Right. Right, it's totally related. Don't stop watching. We're going to stop talking about chords in just a second. Don't turn us off.

If you are a fan of like the Barry Harrison, dominant thing. Like, that's in the family of dominance that would go to C-sharp, right? Is the B-7. That's the backdoor dominant to C-sharp. So anyway, that's for all of you nerds out there. It's the only people laugh now.

The next song is Carrie. This is also my, this is, and half these songs are candidates for the Desert Island trap for me. I love this song so much. This is a consistent record, compositionally. Front to back. Very much so.

Very, very good. Very strong. Every song is strong. This was named after Carrie. ratits, an American she met while she was living with a hippie colony in a cave. Was this the one she described as an American redneck? I think so. Okay.

I don't know what that means. And this is again the Appalachian dulcimer. The wind didn't recall. Last night I couldn't sleep. Oh, you know, it sure is hard to leave the carry, but it's really not my home. My fingernails are filthy. I've got beached tar on my feet.

And I miss my feet. This is Stephen Stills playing bass and guitar. Russ Kunkle on the drums. That's Jonkull on the drums. That's Jono doing all the backgrounds, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll buy you a bottle of wine and we'll laugh and toast and nothing and smash our empty glasses down.

Let's have a round for these freaks and these soldiers, Around for these friends are mine. Let's have another round for the bright red devil who keeps me in this tourist town. Come on, Carrie, get out your cake. I'll put on some silk. That's kind of some of that horn playing type of vocals she was doing there. There's a great interview that Joni did

just a couple years ago with Elton John, where she talks about... Sir Elton John, where she talks about this song. And yeah, basically, her and her, friend were just like going around Greece and the locals were basically just seeing like you're hippies you need to go to this one place where they have a cave like go to this one town the specific town and so her and her and her friend like they go to this town and they're near this restaurant they hear this loud explosion and this man comes out just like covered in like like a

cartoon like he's just been an explosion right where they're like covered in as and soot and it's Carrie. And that's how she meets him is he basically like saw he like blew up a kitchen in a restaurant he was working. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Okay, next up is the title track and this is Blue. Reportedly about James Taylor again. J.T. tattoos you know I've been to see before. Anchor me or let me say. How good is that?

Poodle-the-skill An empty space to feel There's a song These way Toad The deal read A deal read You'll hear a side

Groggy Lullaby Minor 11 Yeah, minor 11 vibe There is your song So again Interesting ending on major After being in minor

Yeah I think we had a little dominant Yeah Yeah there's all the things we were just talking about the triad concepts, right? So she's kind of going between this B minor triad to this A over B. Yeah. To that D over E.

All those slash chords. Yeah. There's also, there's a chord I wanted to get here because this is like a super joanie chord here at the beginning. You hear this chord, I think this is the only time you might hear it on this album. It's all over court in Spartan, which is her next album. And I find this chord fast in because I'm like, oh, she found a chord she liked. Yeah. And then the next album, she's like, I want to do more of that.

Right. We all have done that. Yep. We're like, I'm into this now. Yeah. It becomes a thing. Oh, I know what you're talking about. It's on this.

Yeah. The ascending. It's a major. Downing. It's that one. Oh, that one. Yeah. I think it's a B over A.

Yeah. But it happens after. It's the placement of it. Yeah, that there. Yeah, that, going back to that. Yeah. It's like a B major over A, and then it's going to go back to a B minor. Yeah.

And that's all over Court and Spark. Yeah, and I mean, this track, this is really the first, I know she said this is the concept of this record is, I mean, the title of it's blue, and it's about, you know, sadness and loss in these things that she's talked about. But, and that's been reflected so far, I mean, we're almost halfway through the record now, right? Yeah, we're right in the middle. and in the lyrics that's been reflected up until the place we are now

but harmonically and in terms of the vibe of the songs it hasn't been everything has been actually kind of fun very major and fun and like grooving and stuff so this is the place but even on this track on blue she's using a lot of minor to major with the dominant seven

using a lot of sauce on here that gives it kind of an optimistic sound so like the harmony's starting to take over more where everything has been melodic There's beautiful melodies in this, of course, as well on blue. But the harmony is really, I think, taking center stage now. She mentioned... For the control of the emotion.

I heard an interview with her talking about some of the harmonic stuff she was doing at this time. And she said... I think she said Wayne Shorter... I could be wrong about this, but I believe she said, Wayne Shorter told her, don't do two suss chords in a row. Which is weird, because Wayne Shorter loved to... It's like, don't steal my stuff. But she said, but I was just feeling very...

my whole life was suspended at this point. Like, she was feeling very in the air about things, like up in the air about things. And so this has that. This has that sort of A over B is a suss chord to the D over E. And I think that kind of sound is what she was referring to.

That's a suss sound. It seems so commonplace now, but if you think about this 1971, it's like the whole 70s were a series of suss chords next to each other. And I think it's such a common sound that we have for that decade. But I would imagine at this early stage,

it was like, No, those have to go somewhere. Right, they have to resolve. In popular harmony a little bit more than what we're seeing here. Obviously, Herbie Hancock's doing it in the 60s. Yeah, 66. 65.

Yeah. I forget if it was Wayne or Herbie who told her that, but someone said, don't do something. She was like, no, I'm going to do that. Okay, next up, this might be my favorite. This actually, I know I've said this to my soundtrack, but I love this song so much. Oh, yeah.

Reading the news and it sure looks bad. They won't give peace a chance. There was just a dream Some of us had Still a lot of lines to see But I want to stay Crazy It's like a soprano sex one

Yeah All the California California I'm coming home I'm gonna see the folks I dig Up to that forecourt I'll even kiss a sunset peak California

I'm coming home How many melodies have been written around the word California. Yeah. So, I mean, just off the top of our head. California dreaming. Kind of boring. Yeah.

Right? Just down a scale. There's a welcome to the hotel. California. Maybe a little bit better. Is there, let's see, there's, there might be a Rufus Wainwright song where there's a good, I have to remember that one.

Is there a better California melody than this? California, California. Yeah. That's so good. And her, the transition from alto to soprano is, like, is stunning. Every time she does, like, she has such a, she's not the only vocalist that has that, but I think she's the best at being able to craft a melody to take advantage of the soul-inducing, you know, timbre change of that that's so thrilling.

There's, I wish they all could be California girls. Oh, that's that. Most people are going down to scale. There's going to California by Led Zeppelin. Going to California? Surely there's some Tupac we're missing. California. That's actually pretty good.

That's a good really. That might be good. Okay, that might be the one. No, but this is probably the best California song, like the whole thing. I mean, melodically, the lyrics. We might have to have an episode about the best. Yeah, this is. Well, and I think it's the most evocative.

We should do an episode about the best California, best New York, best Florida. Yeah. I mean, the Tupac is really great because it was the whole East Coast, West Coast thing. And there was like... Roger Trotman was in there too. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, like this is very... Like, when you listen to this

and you think about like the sun coming up in the West and like everything, the California, the coastal lifestyle, you know, like it's just... It's so fantastic. So great. And Joni Mitchell, long time California resident. I mean, famously Canadian, of course.

That's going to come up later, yeah. Incredible. Yeah. Next up is... We might hit all of these. And we talk about those crazy, well, we won't do it. The dominant chords and up to the four and stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Let's listen a little bit here. By the way, there's a great video of the actress Amanda Seafreed playing this song on the Tonight Show with an Appalachian Dalsam. And she crushes. It's got a great voice. I was shocked. Reading the news and it sure looks bad. They won't give peace a chance.

That's just a dream. Yep. One. Still a lot of lines to say four. But I wouldn't want to stay here. The dulcimer is an open major chord With like a Oh right right

So you'll hear like it's all major triad bass Yeah I'm gonna see the folks I dig I'll even kiss a sunset pig California How good is this is great Sunset pig is incredible Sunset I know that's great

That's a great phrase Yeah Here's this flight tonight Next track Yeah Underrated this one It's a good song Yeah

Yeah, because there's a lot of skipping from California to river. Wow, folks. We got river coming up. I saw falling, star burn up above the lost thing is sand. We got Sneaky Pete Klineau on the pedal steel on California and this line. A long line of sneaky Pete's going back to... Going back 2000. I was just lamenting that 25 years.

We don't call you sneaky Pete because you're not very sneaky. Coming loud and proud. Big guy, man. I'm a strong. Incredible. Man, these tracks are short, too. I mean, this was the era of that, right?

For sure. I mean, it's, it is like a folk pop album. Yeah. And so every track is I think under five minutes. Yeah. All right, next up, this is this is in my repertoire. And we're actually, you know, we're playing this for this episode for our intro,

thanks. I think it's one of the best, it's not specifically, like, well, it is kind of about Christmas, but it's turned into one of my favorite Christmas songs. It's become a yeah, when did that happen? I mean, in the last 20 years, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say. But it's

a great song. There's only like one line about Christmas in it, isn't there? Well, it's coming on Christmas. They're cutting down trees. Yeah. They're putting up reindeer and singing songs of joy and peace. It actually captures... But that's like the second verse or something or the... No, it's the first thing. That's the first verse? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. But it sets up

the sort of like, for those of us who listen, I like Christmas as much as the next guy. I love this. I love autumn. Wait, didn't you call me at like 11 a.m. last Christmas? Or like, yo, Pete, man. What the fuck is Christmas going to be done?

Man, this is driving me. I'm sorry. Was that you? I got a limit. No, no, no. I like Christmas. Put me on blast out here. Sorry, man.

I like Christmas as a next guy. But there are some of us who, for, like, the Christmas season, after a while, it's just like, oh, this is really, this is lovely. And also, I feel like I'm a little bit blue, a little blue. A little back on track five. If I wish I had a river that I could skate away on. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

I love it because we already know from the intro, this is not like jingle bells, happy jingle bells. You know, it took me a long time to realize that's what that was. Staring out the window of your tour bus that smells like her. It's coming on Christmas, they're cutting down trees. They're putting up reindeer and singing songs of joy.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. Piano playing on this is so good as well. But it don't snow here, the stays pretty green. Yeah, we're voicing. I'm gonna make a lot of money. Then I'm gonna quit this crazy scene. I wish I had a river

I could skate away on. I wish I had a river so long. I would teach my feet to fly I wish I had a river soul stirring Yeah when you sing fly and then you fly up there I made my He tried hard to help me you know He put me at ease

And he loved me so naughty made me weak in the knees Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away That's not very Christmas Love Me So naughty I'm so hard to handle I'm selfish and I'm sad Now I've gone and lost the best baby

That I ever had Oh I wish I had a river I mean that's one of the great lines of the album I'm so we're going to save it Because we've got a Yeah I think we've got an apex moment here But I'm so hard to handle I'm selfish and I'm sad

Now I've gone and lost the best baby that I ever had. I think it's something that resonates with so many people, with this feeling specifically of like, you know, man, am I my own worst enemy sometimes or what? Like, why can't I get my shit together and be, whatever? It gets in us and this song reflects that so beautifully the whole time.

Her story telling is so great, her lyrics, and I think like these lines are so great lyrics, some of the best, you know, folk pop, whatever you want to call this, ever written, I think. Oh, man. But I think what really, elevates it is her delivery, her diction is so clear, right? There's nothing obscured. There's nothing, it's got like a plain-jane, simple, just direct right down the middle where you can hear

everything. It's not like you're trying, like... Which is insane, considering how incredibly complicated these melodies are. Right, right. And how she floats over them rhythmically. And like going in and out of time, like, that's very... But in terms of like you can hear, it's the enunciation is great, even as she's jumping between ranges and everything. And then that brings the beauty of the lyrics and it kind of pulls it all together, the storytelling, you know. There's something about it. If you're willing to connect with that humanity, it's just right there.

You know, it's like an incredible meal, but it's not like you have to do homework and all this. If you just take a breath and listen and let yourself be enveloped by it, there's a lot there for you. I really love her subtle Canadian accent, too, as she's saying. on some of the vowels. A? Not, that's... That's not subtle. You can't say that.

But, no, there is, there's, like, the way she, especially E's and A's, I think, are different than how we hear a lot of it in America. But it actually makes them pop a little bit

in this context. It sounds very much like, like, you know, the, the emotion that she's trying to convey is sort of buried in her accent. I honestly think,

I've never, in her saying, I've never heard anything Canadian in there. No, It's not like she sounds like, you know, hey, well, I'm not like she sounds like a stereotypical Canadian accent. She does have, and maybe this is just her,

but she does have like vowel sounds that I think are different than how people in California speak or people here in Missouri speak or in the south of the United States speak. And she just has a cadence, too, about it, like a clip to it that feels very northern, right? It feels like even in, like, we would hear here in Michigan and Minnesota and Wisconsin,

like some things that sound very northern. I think... Well, she's from... And she's from Saskatoon, I think, like in the interior. In the interior. A very particular part of, you know, Canada. I, man, I've had this theory for years, but I think the accents that we are grown up with, that we grow up with as people, as human beings, like affect how we make music. I think they affect, like, the rhythms that we think in and the pitches that we think in, for sure.

I think you can hear that in people's playing, especially improvisers. You can hear kind of where they're from. Absolutely. I mean, we're all borrowing from each other now from all over the world. it's a little weird, but definitely, like, in the early 20th century, mid-20th century, like you can, it wasn't just like the musical accent. It's like, that's just the music they make. Like, when I hear New Orleans musicians play music, I can kind of hear the direct

correlation to how they speak. You know what I mean? Exactly. And New Yorkers, the same thing. Like, it's an interesting concept. Yep. For sure. Anyway.

That was a fun digression. It was a positive digression. We're going to come back to River. Next up, though, this is, I mean, this is one of the iconic songs from this album. This is a case for you. Case of you. A case of 24 packs of you. Baker's dozen.

Two dozen cases of you life. With a little land gap. So 25. Just before our love got lost, you said, I am as constant as a northern star and I said. Constantly in the darkness, Where's that at? If you want me, I'll be in the bar. Incredible.

The coaster. In the blue TV screen light. I drew a map of Canada. Oh, Canada. But I mean, these lyrics are very pensive. They are a little blue. But the harmony and the melody is so. like uplifting and optimistic.

It's a really fertile kind of combination, you know. This, the common, you're exactly right, the combination is what makes it. It's like some of the greatest storytelling of the era mixed with some of the greatest like harmony and melody of the era. It's like how does she, I mean, it is very similar to

I think the number one album on the 500 greatest albums of all time was Marvin Kay's what's going on. I believe that's the case. Maybe. But like similar, actually similar era. Yeah. But also a great air. Storytelling, harmony, melody,

so everything is at the highest quality. And this album is up there. Yeah, and then consistency within the album. Yeah. Pretty incredible. Yeah. The last track on the album is the last time I saw Richard. Richard T.

She's referring to. Is it? No. I don't think so. Could be. Yeah, was it pianist? Great player, man. Last time I saw Richard Tee.

Is this Richard Tee? It was at the Fairmont Hotel at Hart. Keep going, Pete. In the lobby. You got it. Sneaky Pete. Richard Tee. Central fans, they're gone now.

Oh, they never came. They're making a P. A sneaky Pete doll and stabbing it. They're over on Brandy Carlis podcast. The last time I saw Richard was Detroit in 68, and he told me, our romantics meet the same fate someday, cynical and drunken, boring someone in some dark cafe. Slash chords all over again.

Yeah. Again, optimistic harmony. You think you're immune. Go look at your eyes. They're full of moon. You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you was pretty lies.

That's right. She had the Detroit period when she first came to the States. When you're going to realize there are only pretty lies. Yeah. Again. just melodically some of the most interesting

melodies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And strange. Very strange. Strange melodies. Very weird. Yeah. I mean, she pulls it together in a way that there's such a beauty to it, but like this is, like, don't just go in and try to read lead sheet on this bad boy and think you're going to be able to pull this off. I did a show with an orchestra where I did a bunch of arranging of Joni's music amongst many other singer-songwriters from this era. And,

Yeah, trying to score out the melody of the vocals for the conductor to follow along with was the worst part. I mean, it truly was a horrible experience to try to like transcribe her rhythm. Like you end up just, you end up having to just simplify things because it looks like such a mess on the page. And yeah, it's, it's, but it just, it's, but I love them so much. Like it doesn't matter how it looks on the page. Like, it just shows how free she is, rhythmically, floating over everything. There's a freedom to her melodic approach that's uncanny. You ever see any of the videos from this era of her playing these things live,

like with the guitar or the piano? Yeah, it seems like nothing, I can't remember from this period, but a little bit later is the stuff I'm more familiar with things. There's some good stuff on YouTube. She is like a stone cold killer on this stuff live. Like she just crushes. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Just incredible. Like she could do this 100 times out of 100. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. I mean, at least as of that show at the Newport. a couple years ago, Newport Folk Festival. All right, Peter, let's do some categories here.

Desert Island tracks. What do you got? Well, I got River. I love River, but there's a bunch. I mean, it could have been a bunch. I just think that's such a... Is that one of her most covered songs? It's one of her most covered songs. This is, of course, Herbie Hancock's version from this album called River, the Joni Lodges.

That's going to show up a little later on the categories. This record, I think, is one of the best Herbie Piano sounds of any record he's made. One album of the year, Yeah. Not jazz. Oh yeah. This is a Corinne.

Bailey Ray, Ray, right. Yeah. This is a Billy Callie. There's that version. Yeah. There's that version. Yeah.

There's also this version. Hmm. Which I know you know very well. This is Diane Reeves. Kenny Garrett there on the Saxon. Joe Locke. This is Joe Locke arrangement, actually. Yeah, Joe Locke talked about this arrangement when he came and did a mentor session for us here at Open Studio.

Nice. Ryan Blade on drums Big connector to the jazz world And Joni Mitchell Not fair Diane Reese does her own background vocals I've done the song to gig quite a few times Background I wish I lay

That was my part Did they put a microphone in funny They did put a microphone Oh okay It was weird there was no cable attached to it It's so good man It's really that's Diane Reege Just amazing

That's a good version Apparently Johnny Mitchell likes it that version a lot. And the Herbie version. I know on authority. I'm sure. I'm sure. There's some great stuff with Joni and Herbie together to live playing River together. Yep. That you can find on YouTube. I had California. I'm so enamored with California. That one? Well, that's number two. I can't believe you brought that up. And it got in my head now. I mean, the Tupac. If we're thinking about California, again, the melodies on the word California, it's got to be in the this.

I think those two are the best. Well, even, unless I'm missing something. I mean, the Tupac has two melodies over the California, right? You got California, but you also have, don't forget, California love. That's right. That's a good melody, too. Yeah. So, I don't know. Johnny might be losing out to Tupac, Roger Troutman. This one's good. This one's good, too. What about

Apex Moments? What do you got? So Apex Moments, there's, when she goes up on River, on the second verse, I think it's around 220. This is also mine. This is my... Yeah, and this, we came to this independently. We did, but we didn't... I don't think we've ever had the same apex.

This computer right here. Yeah. Oh, so great. It's unbelievable. I mean, the piano playing, which seems very standard of what she's doing, but she's doing everything right. And then the vocals, like, there's no, she's pulling back on any vibrato. Yeah.

The pitch is perfect. It sounds. Just like the movie, pitch perfect, too. If you started that just halfway through the note, you would think it might be a soprano saxophone. Yeah. Like it sounds, her timbre sounds. Just like a horn.

And then the way, I think the most genius part of it is the way she pulls back and ends it. She doesn't just end, you know. That's great. Genius is a great word for that. Absolutely. Yeah. So we're in... That was funny.

We had this... Well, I probably like everyone. It's a pretty great moment. Bespoke playlist. What do you got? If this were a Spotify, Apple Music playlist, part of a playlist, what would it be called? You know, 1970 and 1972, exclamation point.

Exclamation point, believe it. 1970 and 1970s. That was a three years. years, 70, 71, and 72. What did you get a degree in math? I do math. I have, everyone's in L.A. Everyone's in L.A.

Because I feel like this is like one of these albums I think of, I think about that whole scene, Graham Nash, you know, Crosby Stills and Nash, James Taylor, Steve Nash, of course, time with the Lakers. That's true. Neil Young, you know, the Grateful Dead. like just all these people, the mama's in the pop, it's like all these people in the late 60s. Steve Young also, well, he was in Northern California.

But, no, everybody's in that L.A. scene, right? That's sort of like. And like, you know, Stevie, Marvin Gates, like, like, that's right on the time Motown moved to L.A. Motown's moving out there. Everybody's in L.A. Yep, Herbie. Herbie's out there, for sure.

Yeah. Miles. Was Miles out there? Actually, I don't know. How many traveled out there? No, I guess he was still in, he always stayed in New York. Quibble bits, Peter, what do you got? Oh, you go first.

Are we going to hit the third rail? Well, there's a lot we could talk about. What's your quibble bit? I don't see anything written here. Yeah, I mean, I've been kind of tossing back. I don't think with the actual album itself, I have a quibble bit with anything that was recorded. Zero.

I think it's damn near perfect for what she's doing at the time. I thought there's no such thing as a perfect book. There's not. That's why I said damn near. Well, what's imperfect about it? that should be your quibble bit. Maybe this is the perfect album. It never, there's not as many colors as I wish there were. Well, the record's called blue.

So she's kind of boxed herself in with that. That's a good point. That's a good point. No, I think it's perfect in that she... Hey, Trout, why are you swimming so much? It's a good point. It's a great point, actually. Yeah.

I think if we consider it like... It doesn't matter if it's perfect or not. The name of it is not the reading rainbow. You know what? Maybe it should have been. No, I'm saying, like, if we consider perfection to be like, did she reach what she was trying to achieve. Yeah, it's perfect. I think she really nailed it.

But it's not... That's the most equivocal. Yeah, it is. It is. Because we're talking about some bullshit parameters you're putting on this. It doesn't matter.

It's a piece of art. No, we're just talking about there's any quibble of this. Okay, I'll throw one out there. Okay. Okay. I don't think the piano sound from an engineering standpoint is great.

Actually, I shouldn't even say from an engineering, although I have a few quibbles with the mix. Because there's kind of like, there's either guitar or dulcimer, you know, string, driven tracks and there's piano driven tracks. Pretty much the whole, like the whole record is those two dimensions,

which I love. I think that works great, kind of going back and forth, sometimes two in a row, whatever. Blue and green? Yeah, right, right. But to me, the piano, I love her playing. I love her accompaniment. I love her voicing.

I mean, for what she's doing, especially accompanying herself is damn near perfect, I would say, I mean, like, I would screw that up. Even Herbie Hancock might, well, no, Herbie would add more. There's zero overplaying, but there's, it's not, it's also not boring. Like, she plays these little subtle fills in between her vocal lines. And there's nothing that's off. There's nothing that's like, wait, why, there's nothing extra.

Yeah. Yeah, she's good. But I think it's just the piano, the piano is, it's not great, the actual instrument. Yeah, sometimes it's actually a little bit, there's some unisons in some songs. Yeah, it's a little pitchy, but I think just the sound quality of it. It's a testament to like how she places it musically within the songs that it works great. It's not horrible. I don't know, man.

This is a quibble bit. I think it's part of the charm of it, honestly. You know, and the mix, too, the piano was always mixed under the vocals in a way that the guitar, like the guitars are so wide and so, and there's, on the guitars and the dolls music, there's some pitchy stuff there too. If you think about, like, 70s cinema,

this grainy, gritty, these grainy gritty movies about these imperfect characters. Yeah. It looks kind of weird and sounds kind of weird. This sounds like that to me. It has that similar aesthetic of that air. which I wasn't around for, but I now love to go back and visit. Film noir?

No. Film bleu. But the way that this sounds, I think, it sort of is how those 70s movies look to me. Yeah, but the piano, I know what you're saying. Like there's a stylized... Yeah, but her vocal's not. Like, the vocal is captured, like, very wide, very pure. The last track here, you know, she's like overdriving this mic sometimes.

This is a very Carol King tapestry piano sound, actually, now that I'm really... sound actually now that I'm hearing it. It's a good call. It's a great call. It's fine. It's just not, it's like a B-plus grand piano to me is what it sounds like. It is a little, the piano itself is a little like that bass but listen to her voice. Yeah, it's a lot.

Did she inspire the piano power ballad of the 80s with this type of play? Kind of, yeah. I mean, not just her, but. So many cool colors, though. time I saw Richard was Detroit in 68 and he told me Our romantics meet the same You're right, the voicle is so present And the rap, the piano sounds like it's a little bit under a cloth

Yeah It could be the instrument itself, but it's likely I think it's made, yeah, I mean, because this is a beautifully engineered record I got no quibbles with that, but Snomometer, what do you got? Snomometer, I have this on as a two. Very accessible. Very accessible.

and also because it's number three on the Billboard 500 greatest albums of all the time. That pushes the snobometer down to me. Man, you would think I would think it was more snobby or less snobby. What do you got? I got it as a five. I got it right to know.

Yes, I'm finally influencing you. I went five for like the last seven records. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. I think you just lost the, you lost the plot. I can't figure out if the snobometer is broken or if I'm broken. The snobometer. Is it better than the? kind of blue. Nope. Nope.

Acuchamance. I mean, I'll go eight. I'll go eight. I'm also going eight, which is basically a one. It's fine. Up next, what should be the next thing that's like auto-playing after this? Well, I mean, I want to go straight for selfish reasons to Herbie Hancock, the Joni Letters.

River the Joni Letters. I love that record. And normally it'd be like, you wouldn't want to go from the OG record to like kind of the inspiration, but I think it's such an imaginative record of Herbie's. I think it's such such a, it's not, I think, celebrated enough in the jazz world or just any world. I think because of that, like, it was almost cursed. You know how some of these actors say, like, when they win an Academy Award, then they

stopped getting calls. Everyone's like, oh, it's an Academy Award winner. We can't afford them, or he's not going to want to work with us. It almost was like that record for Herbie in a way. I mean, do you hear people talking about that record? We talk about it. We talk about it a lot. I think it's been on our up next at least three or four times.

Are we talking about it too much of that, maybe? Maybe. But it's a great album. Yeah. It's a great album. I have James Taylor's Sweet Baby James, which came out the year before. She's dating James Taylor.

She's making this. It feels natural. But I also would like, when you mentioned Carol King's tapestry. I was just thinking that could be, we got to do that record. We got to do tapestry. That would be a lot of fun to go right from this. And we'd just make a lot of sense.

It would make a lot of sense. It would be a very contemplative afternoon. Some rains falling. You're drinking a late cup of coffee. You're sitting around. you got decropage hanging from your ceiling. Peter, a couple of things before we head out here and play some river. So, you know, we do have a newsletter.

Yes. We got a newsletter. It's called You'll read it. You can sign up for it here in the description. Get it. It's like you'll hear it. Go check that out. There's some behind-the-scenes stuff.

There's some stories from producer Liz, from producer Caleb, about making episodes. Even Sam, the engineer, Andy, the videographer. even you and I get on it a couple times. Adam, the podcast host, Peter, the podcast host. I like how you give everyone a title. Well, we're just jokes. You're like Larry, the... Cable guy?

The pump guy. Also, Peter, there is something else that I want to talk about. It's very, very serious. It's very, very urgent. It's called the gala. Have you ever heard of it? I know the gala.

Is it gala? Tell me about the gala. Gala. G-A-L-A. It's the gentleman. The gala. The gentleman and ladies agreement. This is something we've had here at this podcast for a long time.

This podcast... I'm bringing sexy back. I'm bringing Gaila back. Right? We should do that album. This podcast is free, except that it's not free. It's not free. You can listen to it for free, but...

O'Contraimha. There is a price. We ask that you leave us a rating and review... Being sexy ain't free. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating and review. If you're listening on Spotify or YouTube, leave us a comment. And comment Gailer. LA, all caps, and then tell us your favorite parts about the show.

Tell us your leaf favorite parts about the show. Yeah. And that's all we require. That's a little bit of your time to say, Gala, I hear you guys. Yeah. I like this. I don't like this. There you go. And we do have some comments that I want to read out here.

So this is a comment that says, and this is a review, I think. I hear it. The more I listen, the more I hear it. I love this podcast because I love music and I love being nerdy about it. This show has broadened my love and understanding specifically of jazz, and its history. Consequently, it's got me to actually leave my apartment and check out live jazz in my city.

Shout out to Bop Stop in Cleveland, Ohio. Thank you guys. Hashtagena. This, yeah, I like that. That could be kind of our nomaker. Namaker. What? It's that combination of a name and a yamika.

A nomaker. No, this could be... Bobstop? No, Cleveland. You'll hear it. Getting guys in Cleveland out of their apartment one day at a time. That is very flattering.

We appreciate you. Get out the apartment. I got another one here. Is that because Cleveland's dangerous like St. Louis? That's why they don't want to leave the apartment? Could be. Could be.

We don't know. This is from MDo review. Or no, MDU review. The title of the review is which I really appreciate. Gaila, making this world a better place. Thank you.

Mdo review. And then finally doing it, this is from Deadhead, 1226, 79. I think I know, A, your favorite band, and B, that you and I are both elder millennials slash young gen Xenials. Exenials. These guys are great. I play piano and bass semi-professionally, and these guys have taught me an insane amount over the past seven-ish years. Great to get such an insight on classic albums playing with the Greats, playing the great venues from the Greats, love the show.

Thank you, Deadhead, 122679. Yeah. Thank you, Peter. Yeah, thank you, man. This was awesome. I appreciate it. Yeah. Until next time, you'll hear it.