You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Brown Sugar" – D'Angelo

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

D'Angelo's Brown Sugar sounded like nothing else in 1995. R&B was slick, polished, and built for clubs. D'Angelo later said the "deeper consciousness" had gone out of contemporary music. Questlove later wrote that contemporary R&B had become "trite" and "soulless" ... and then there was Brown Sugar, D'Angelo's debut album. It sounded more like the '70s than the '90s. More like church than the club. On this episode of You'll Hear It, jazz pianists Adam Maness and Peter Martin go track by track through D'Angelo's debut, pulling apart the vocal stems, naming the jazz chords underneath the soul, and tracing every influence back to its root. They also bring in the archival recordings you might have missed: a live set from the Jazz Café London that gives the album a whole second life, and a J Dilla remix.-------------------------------Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://openstudiojazz.com/yhi -------------------------------Related You'll Hear It episodes:Voodoo: https://youtu.be/AYqmFNF2s0U-------------------------------About You'll Hear It:In this popular music series Adam and Peter break down the greatest albums of all time. Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Joni Mitchell, D'Angelo: Jazz is the foundation of the most GENIUS music in recent history. These seasoned jazz pianists bring their deep musical knowledge to every joyful episode to help you hear the hidden qualities that make music AMAZING. You'll never hear music the same way again.-------------------------------Sign up for the You'll Read It newsletter for little known stories about the artists you love: https://youllhearit.com/newsletter -------------------------------00:00 - D'Angelo's Brown Sugar01:11 - Let's Go Back to 1995 05:35 - "Brown Sugar"08:30 - Engineer Bob Power's Influence 09:13 - "Brown Sugar" Felt Different From Anything Else in 199516:57 - D'Angelo on Why He Picked Bob Power19:30 - "Alright" 28:57 - Isolated Vocal Stems on "Alright"31:27 - "Jones in My Bones" 33:20 - The Little-Known D'Angelo Album36:25 - "Me & Those Dreamin' Eyes of Mine"40:30 - The J Dilla Remix (1997)44:18 - "Shit, Damn, Motherfucker" 46:30 - Live at the Jazz Cafe - "Shit, Damn, Motherfucker"48:10 - "Smooth" 50:20 - D'Angelo Could Have Been a Jazz Pianist53:04 - D'Angelo and Peter's Ellis Marsalis Connection56:21 - "Cruisin'" 59:25 - Ad Break: Learn To Play Like D'Angelo1:00:37 - "When We Get By"1:04:44 - "We Were Just Mocking Dilla": Raphael Saadiq on How "Lady" Was Made1:06:20 - "Lady"1:11:02 - "Higher"1:15:28 - "Brown Sugar" Hits Different 30 Years Later1:17:00 - Our Favorite Moments1:23:45 - Quibble Bits, Snob-O-Meter & Accoutrements1:27:26 - Up Next + Listener Reviews1:29:45 - Open Studio Plays "Lady"

1995. R&B is all drum machines and digital production. Slick, polished, safe. Hip-hop and soul are living in two different houses. All of a sudden, a 21-year-old from Richmond, Virginia, walks into a New York studio with a Fender Rhodes, a hammond organ and a head full of Marvin, Prince, and Tribe. He plays almost everything himself, writes it, produces it, arranges it. Nobody asks for this record, but it would build a bridge between those two worlds. His manager anointed it at the birth of Neo-Soul, But DiAngelo never claimed that term. He just said, I make black music. This is Brown Sugar, and he's got someone he wants you to meet.

Let me tell you about this girl, maybe I should. I met him in filth, and her name was Brown Sugar. See, we'd be making love constantly. That's why my eyes are in shade. The way that we kiss is unlike any other way that I be kissing what I'm pissing, what I'm missing, won't you listen? Brown sugar, babe, I guess, high. I'm Adam Maness.

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hear a podcast. Music Explored. Explored, brought today by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJadogadogadogad.com for, oh, your jazz lesson needs. Peter, big day. Big day.

This is going to be fun. Yeah. We're going back in time. In fact, we're going so far back in time that I got a little confused what decade it was. I did say 1995, right? You did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then I realized, I mean, this is 1995 right here. This is scream in the middle of the 90. You know how many? You know how many Toyota SELICs I got in the passenger seat of where a copy of that CD, DeAngelo's Brown Sugar, was kind of broken, the case was broken, and it was sitting on the floor of the celica. Yeah.

And it had ground. The cellica, also, by the way, it had ground effects. It had a wing on the back. Some McDonald French fries. Hell yeah. Smelled like a weed, you know, the whole thing. Half of this was kind of ripped up, but it'd been looked, you know. Absolutely.

Oh, what a time. And by the way, CD was on the floor. Didn't even, that Selica didn't come with a CD player. It had a tape deck with that convertible. OX. Maybe it had the ox. Oh, 95 was great because we weren't really like Y2K maybe was just a little like a joke, a glimmer. We weren't freaking out about it yet.

Not yet. Not yet. But I got confused because I pulled out, you know what this is, my friend? Yes. Of course you know it because you were around that. But this was my very first CD player. Where did you find that thing? This is the Sony.

Well, this is the same model. This is not the actual player. I found it on a little place called eBay. I can send you a link if you want. That is commitment to physical media. This is the D-50, though. This was the actual first, and I was so excited for this episode, but then I realized I got my decades wrong.

I bought this in 1985. I was going to say, that's a little bit bulky for 95. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was sort of piggybacking on our Michael Jackson Bad, which was one of my first early non-jazz CDs. Man, do you remember when this album came out, Brown Sugar? Oh, absolutely. It blew me away.

I remember it's one of those moments. It only happens occasionally in your lifetime where you hear music and you're like, oh, I don't think I've ever heard anything quite like this. This is like a new thing for us. I totally agree. I mean, it just, you know, records that as soon as you hear, like, that intro, that it just takes you back to a place, man. Yeah. What a wonderful thing that we have with this.

And, I mean, one thing about this is, it is something new, and it does like, it was like, whoa, but it was also something backwards. It feels familiar. That's the genius about DeAngelo, and actually all three of the studio albums, is they both feel like something totally fresh that you've never heard before. And it also feels like something from your childhood. somehow. Like it feels like something that's been around forever. It feels like something that is very familiar to the culture. And yet it has this air of freshness, this new combination. It's the mark of, I think, any true genius.

And I'll throw the G word out for DeAngelo. I truly one of the great musicians are a life from. I'll put a capital on that G, my friend. It's really, really good. And I love this album so much. To me, this is like the classic announcement of a brand new mega talent. And, you know, we were so excited about this. It's what really caused Voodoo to be.

such a massive hit as people were so excited to see what was next from, you know, the artist that made brown sugar that that anticipation for Voodoo is so incredible. And it, man, did that pay off? Absolutely. And this was a time still, maybe the tail end of it, kind of, but when you were expected, when you were, you know, coming out with great records and getting hits and stuff like this did to have another record that next year, right? Maybe even nine months later.

And he was five years till Voodoo came out. So that was an eternity then. I mean, it still would be. But I mean, this is something that's exciting. I think too, like this thing of like, what does it harken back to? Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder, those are sort of obvious things.

But I think for folks that maybe came up kind of Gen Xer types like us, and a little older and a little younger too, it was, you know, Prince, right? Who was ever present still then, of course, in the mid-90s and before this, but was so influential on this. But also the connection to hip-hop, which I think DeAngel doesn't get enough credit for.

The first track here, Brown Sugar, that we're going to dig into a little bit deep. or even than we just did, I think is such an example of that. And with Ali Shahid Mohammed, that connection with Tribe Club Quest. But the grooves all over this record are like, they're hip-hop grooves, but he's singing soul and background. And he wasn't the first to bring these disparate elements together. But, I mean, he sure was the first to, like, put it together,

and then his manager coined it Neo-Soul, which he didn't like. And none of them liked it. He never claimed it. He never claimed it. But whatever it was, it was this soul jazz. We're going to talk. We always talk a little jazz, but there's some. We've got jazz musicians on this album, too.

We have jazz some of the greatest 90s or any time jazz musicians on this record. Let's listen to a little more brown sugar than I want to talk about the 90s a little more. So maybe let's listen to this open track, get it in our ears. Let's do it. Big Fat B minor, 6 to start it out. Come on. So the background chatter, studio chatter. Very Marvin, but very tribe also.

Let me tell you about this girl, maybe I should. I'm madden and filth and the name was Brian. See, we be making love constantly. That's why my eyes are in shade. Blood-Burking me. The way that we kiss is unlike any other way that I be kissing when I'm kissing, what I'm missing, won't you listen? Brown sugar, babe. I guess high off your love, I don't know how to behave.

All the background vocals. This is like the, that's the Prince's thread, you know. Right. That attention to detail on those. And the mix on these vocals, extraordinary. The backgrounds and the main, I mean, Also, man Yeah

Virginia, dude Yes The gospel influence Oh sugar When you go to me You love me right down to my knees And whenever you let me hit it Sweet like honey

When it comes to me Skin is caramel With the cocoa eyes Even got a big sister By the name of chocolate Brown sugar Babe I guess how off a love

Don't know how to behave Man, can we talk about the sound of that snare drum real quick? Oh, so great. Incredible. Ali Shahi Mohammed did the drum, sorry, the drum programming on this. The organ, the Hammond B3, that's DeAngel, of course. But the snare is. Is that organ base, too?

I think it is. I mean, I'm convinced that it is. It's definitely DeAngela on it. I mean, you hear that sustain on it. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's the Virginia, Richmond, the gospel influence. Yeah, he comes. There's some great videos on YouTube

of him playing as a teenager in his church and it is sublime. It's incredible. And he comes out of that, you know, the Pentecostal four male quartet vocal tradition quartets. Which he put his own thing together

and had been doing that. And then he's doing that with the backgrounds on this. It's incredible. But I think that this, you know, with Ali programming the drums on this and also probably even a bigger influence on DeAngelo beyond just this track and this record, Ali Shahid Muhammad is the one that introduced,

that connected Bob Power, who we just lost this last week. So, I mean, this is as much a celebration of Bob Power and his collaboration with DiAngelo and also just all the mini records from this period that he worked on. But, I mean, he was the engineer, but he also played guitar.

He produced, they did stuff at his loft up in Union Square, just him and DeAngelo that were demos. A lot of that stuff made it onto this record. Some of it, DeAngelo wanted more of it. come on this record, but he was just a force, and seeing the outpouring of love and appreciation and camaraderie with Bob Power this last week has been amazing from some of the best musicians on the planet.

RIP to one of the best, Bob Power. Yeah. Can I just put in your ears a little bit, I mean, not literally put in your ears, but do you remember the early 90s, some of the R&B? You remember Brian McKnight? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember boys to men? Yeah, sure.

They were going stronger. And vogue. Yeah. Right. R. Kelly, yeah. Can't remember him. But the sort of pop music influence, especially with like Brian McKnight, baby face.

Yeah. Even boys to men, like the shiny, programmed, polished. This has more of that organic 70s soul vibe. I think it's easy to take for granted now because DeAngelo's been such a huge part of music in our lifetime since this album, that this was so, it felt so different. I remember it so clearly.

I think I was a sophomore in high school when this came out. And I just remember the, the video for this and him on a real roads, and I just learned what a real roads was right around then, you know, and knowing like that was, even that was a bit of a statement. Yeah. It wasn't a digital, brand new, shiny, insonic synthesizer,

but it was this earthy, organic roads that Stevie Wonder played, you know? Yeah. That kind of thing. It was the sound, it was the visual, but it was also, you know, somebody sitting at that instrument and connecting with the elders, you know what I mean? You know, Herbie in the 70s and stuff. Like, he was making a statement with that.

And the hip-thah thing is, too, is, I think it's legitimate. There's no, like, rapping on this album. No. There are a lot of four-cord vamps on this album. Like, this whole song is just these four chords that happen together. And it's a lot, there's a few tracks like that on Brown Sugar. And I think it does make for it. It seems like at any moment someone's about to come in and, like, spit a verse.

You know what I mean? Like it seems like it could happen. It could totally fit over this. Right. And it's kind of like DeAngel. And he talked about this, something like his aesthetic, his connection with the music, the grooves, the beats, especially Tribe Carl Quest. But also Jay Dillon, we're going to get into some of that,

the connection with that a little bit later. But, like, he wanted that sound. But then he also, like, had a vision for, like, he'd already done demos of these. Most of these songs, or at least half of them he wrote when he was, like, 16, 17 years old in Richmond, Virginia, in his bedroom, some of them with his brother. You know, he had, like, an insonic,

one of those four tracks that he won when he came up to New York, the famous story about, you know, he won the Apollo thing and everything. So, like, he had worked a lot of this music out, and he wanted that sound. And so that's actually how he connected. He asked, I think it was Ali Shahid Muhammad or somebody in tribe to connect him with Bob Power because he's like, I like his sound. Like so he, the same way like later on, Pino Paladino, like he went into the to the BB King session.

It was like, oh my God, I've been looking for someone that loves James James James Simpson as much as me. That's what I want. So I'm going to put out there also today, not only is this an incredible record in DiAngelo, yes, capital G with the genius. but also incredible visionary and band leader. 100%. You know, I mean, he's 21 years old on this, and, like, we're going to hear some live stuff that he did. And I remember, like, when he was on David Letterman,

he went on a huge, what was the London show, Jules, Jules Holland? Jules Holland. He went with the band, man, and he was, like, sitting at that roads, and then he'd sing these lines and then, man, it was nothing programmed. This is why church musicians rule the world, because they can do all that. Exactly.

They can back it up with some real playing and real, live performance. Can I get a little music nerdy for our music nerds? And this is some nerdy, this is some weird nerd jiu-jitsu, because I'm going to use some nerdy stuff to encourage my music nerds out there. No, no, you got it. Do you know this tune? You know the changes to the tune? What key is it in here?

B minor. So B minor. So for my music nerds out there, don't be too precious with your keys, with your major and your minor. One of the, I think, most powerful things about Brown Sugar, is a few times when he's like, I guess, hi. The high? Yeah. Right? Which is like, you're reaching up there

you're thinking that's going to be the minor. I guess, hi. A few times, he bends it up even more to the D sharp. B, can you play a B minor? Yeah. I guess, hi. Yeah. Bending it up, right.

Bending it up, even though the chord he's playing is minor, he's singing that major third over it. And not only do you like, does it not sound bad? It sounds amazing. It's like, it brings you back into the cosmos almost. Like it takes you to a new plane. I know that sounds grandiose, but this shit is grandiose, man. It is.

It's really good. It is. And I mean, it's a little bit overly simplistic to like call it. It is. It's bluesy. Yeah, it's stupid. But it is. But I mean, like, it's that element.

Well, it's the tradition of the blues. That is, that major, minor rub is what makes Western black American music so amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's what makes it so different and special. So this is the beginning, just the vocals in the background. So you get this kind of studio chatter thing. What is that?

You know, it's the Marvin Gay. It's the tribe called Questling. Is that the Detroit Lions? Yeah. It was with Marvin. But it's throughout the track. And so it gives us this, you know, it's just like this.

It just keeps going on the whole time. It gives it a vibe, yeah. No, it does. Absolutely. Does it really? Yeah. But then later on, like, when the backgrounds come in, you're not hearing it.

That's some tribe stuff there. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You hear it? And, you know, EMI. Famously. Yeah, they're like, what's going on there? I had no idea.

I mean, I heard in the beginning, but I just didn't even realize. Yeah, you don't really know, I mean, you notice it once you hear you can on here. It's so, it's like you're in the studio, and it's got a certain, and like some of these tracks,

and we're going to even hear DeAngel talk about this, are very clean and they're killing it. And it's like kind of the opposite. This is the one track, which is incredible because it's not, this wasn't the biggest hit, but this was one of the hits, right? It's got to be the biggest hit.

It was, I guess lady's probably the biggest. Yeah, yeah, lady, but this was the first single, though. And this was the one that he was doing on, And when everybody was like, damn. I'll tell you what, though, for me and my friends, this was the one. This track was the one.

This is still, this is probably going to make it into the categories for me, this track. Yeah, no, it's so great. But I mean, and when he goes into like, but you can still hear it, right? Once you hear it, you can't. But check out this bass on the organ. This is just the left hand. Or maybe it's with the feet. That's probably the left hand.

Oh, do you hear the bobo-bo-do. Did he have a little filling gains in there? that's the thing man he had all of it in there he's one of those musicians you would just love to talk to him about music and talk to him about his influences

listen to music with him would be amazing yeah you know it's that organic feel even though it's the program drums that like that tribe sounded that just you know it's loose

it's that loose production aesthetic too and that's that chatter in the studio it's just like we're falling to this thing EMI was pissed about this they were like no smooth it out smooth that. And he had to really fight to keep this one on there. And because they were like, you're going to start, they're just going to be the first single.

And they love the song, but they thought it was too rough around the edges. They were wrong. I think they were wrong on that. Okay, let's explore a little bit more. There's some great archived interviews. Red Bull Music Academy, which I don't think it exists anymore, but there was a wonderful

interview. Like Red Bull, the energy drink? The energy drink. They were in the music interview business for a while. They do everything. Skydiving, F1, DeAngelo? But I mean, he did a wonderful interview. You know, he didn't do a lot of interviews. He was, he liked, he didn't like big crowds of people. Raphael Sadeek said that. He was like, he liked to be, you know, when he would record in the studio, especially later on, he'd have like, you know, already a studio's like a cave usually, like no windows or anything. And then in the vocals, when he was running vocals, he'd have like a sort of tent cave thing to like a cave within a cave. You know, he wanted to feel. He wanted, he didn't want people around. He wanted to concentrate. You know, he was never social media or anything. I mean, he'd have. I get it. Yeah. But this is where he talks about what we mentioned before about coming together with Bob Power.

This is DeAngelo. Just about the entirety of the first album, Brown Sugar, I wrote it, the majority of that record in my bedroom in Richmond. And all of the demos for it were done on a four track in my bedroom. I think EMI was a little leery of me being in the studio, producing it on my own, which is what I was fighting for. So it was important for them that I go on with someone, an engineer. Everyone was trying to pick, like, you should get Prince's engineer or somebody else. And I picked Bob Power because of my love for tribe and what they were doing.

and it was the best thing to do. And he was so awesome. He taught me a lot. All of the demos that I had basically, before we even set foot in the studio, we were at Bob Powers' house for like three months, like going over every detail,

like tweaking every high hat, every symbol, you name it. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I've never heard that. That's incredible. Yeah, and you know, this is one of those records where they, where it's listed, and this was the fashion at that time, because people were actually doing it, composed, written, arranged, produced, and performed by D'Angelo, you know, which is like, you know, very much coming out of the Stevie Wonder tradition.

Yeah. But very much Prince. Prince, you know, coming out of that tradition. And then, of course, there was other people on there, but you have to go across a certain threshold to be able to say that. It doesn't mean you can't have little guitar, a little trumpet, which is on here, you know. Raphael Sadie, killing guitaria bass. But I mean, the fact that like everything, not only is, and he wrote almost everything too.

I mean, there's the one cover, cruising, and there's a couple of collaborations. Great cover. Yes, his covers are amazing. Oh, man, he could have done a great cover record. Oh, my God. A whole type of thing. But anyway, yeah, so I just wanted to kind of frame it on that,

that partnership with Bob Power and DeAngel on this. Shall we move on? Yeah, let's check out the next track. Yeah. Now, this was, oh man, I love this. I forgot, for some reason, I would skip over this a little bit for some time. Oh, this is good, man. But it's so good.

I'm not saying it ain't good. I just, that's the joy of music, right? Coming back to it and you're like, all right. Shout out to some envelope filters on this album. Yeah. Just full of little wah things. And that's Bob Power on guitar. This is just DeAngel on Power.

So good. It's a drug programming all this. I think they are Wendell. Wendell who? Melody comes back a little. He uses that lady as well. Yeah. The way they've got the vocals sitting in the mix and the backgrounds, we're gonna check about separately because it's so well setting in there. You almost, I mean, like when you turn it down, you kind of hear it almost better, you know? And oh, I mean, this is Wawa Watson. That's that's what Power is doing. He's channeling, you know, the great guitarist. The great, you know.

It's amazing. The placement of the drums. Oh. And this is the thing, D'Angle's 21 years old. I mean, he was, you know, you know, he was, you know, You know, I never got a chance to meet him, but I was kind of around him a couple of times in the same room. And he had that aura, like that old soul aura. I mean, you could hear it in the music. You could hear it in the music. And hear him talking, too.

You could hear it in the voice. Like, that was authentically who he was. And, like, when we come across these artists, these geniuses, you know, and certainly he was celebrated. And since his passing last year, it may feel like everybody's celebrating even more. and, you know, one wonders is like, man, do we understand the loss? Can you ever understand? Like, when it's a, you can't quantify it with three records or four. You know, it's not about that.

It's like the presence of somebody that gave their art, you know, willingly in a way that was like authentic to them, certainly, and their old soulness, his old solness, but also like the work, like he said, he's like, we sat there for three months sweating every detail on this. Yeah, you can hear it. And people don't understand. And he could have, like you see him on those live performances, he's killing, and we're going to listen to some. I mean, it's not like they couldn't have just gone in with the band, but like he didn't have the vision actualized yet, right? It was still up here.

And then he's meeting, you know, Ali, Bob Power, different people, you know, Raphael Sadiq, you know. I think he is one of the, and, you know, the, we always say like, you know, we only got three studio albums from him. But it's because we only got three studio albums, because there was five years between brown sugar and voodoo, and then what? 12, 13 years between Vulu and Black Messiah? Something like that? Yeah, maybe 14. Maybe 14?

Yeah, something like that. And we get three studio albums. But it's like such a clear case of, you know, the sort of early and then mid and then later stages of a great artist's career that we see in other artists. I've actually been thinking about this in terms of even like film directors with,

as I've been listening to Brown Sugar and Voodoo this week, honestly. And Black Messiah this week, too. I listened to you once. But like, I've been thinking about. thinking about people like, you know, these two directors, it's almost Oscar season here, Peter, in 2026. And it's like, you know, everybody's talking about sinners and one battle after another and Ryan Coogler and Paul Thomas Anderson. And I think there's like, you get to see in DeAngelo's studio albums, like the evolution of this amazing artist happened so clearly where this album is his like fruit field station, his creed. Like it's like, wait, who is this? What is this idea?

Yeah. You know, this like someone is new with a real vision and idea. And they're not only that, but they're pulling it off. Like they're able to execute it, right? Ooh, is this his music of my mind? This is like his, his music of my mind. This is his off the wall. Yeah.

And then you get voodoo, which is like, so with brown sugar, the reason why I say that it's the beginning is because it's so amazing. It's so good. But he's about to, like, realize what this vision is on such a deeper level because of the experience that he has with brown sugar, which is like what every artist does, right? is like they come in with all these great ideas, but it takes a few years to marinate sometimes

and learn some lessons as he talks to, I think he's talked about how this album, he's like learning lessons about how to produce and how to do things. And then you get voodoo five years later and it's like, oh, he has, not only does he have it totally figured out and he's got a real purpose with it,

but the culture has also caught up to him. Yeah. Right? It's like a little bit with music in my mind where the culture kind of wasn't ready for Stevie that first album, but by the time he gets to Intervisions, everybody's like,

okay, we get it now, and we're here with you. And by the time DiAngelo gets to voodoo, it's like, oh, this is amazing. And also he's peaking artistically. He's found this voice. And then you have that the later period for him, which is sadly for him, I feel like there was probably more to come

that we just didn't get because he tragically passed away. So maybe still some stuff coming I'm hearing. Oh, wow. Okay. But Black Messiah is a lot, to me, as musically energetic as these first two.

Oh, yeah. There's a little more wisdom. there's a little more introspection. There's a little more, honestly, he's Black Messiah, which I hope we listen to someday here. He gets so sophisticated with the arranging the orchestration. Yeah.

You know, he's really stretching, strings. The tonal color palettes that he's using on that one are of a very experienced season person who's made some amazing music. And it's like, usually you get this in 10 albums, right? And we get it in three with DeAngelo. Or you get it in, like, with directors, right? It's like you got Fruitville Station,

you got Creed, Creed 2, and then you got Black Panther. And now that's like, you know, Coogler's voodoo, right? Yeah, yeah. And then now Sinners is in this, like, classic period, this, like, peak period or whatever. Listen, Coogler might have, like, another three films that is, like, he's really, PTA is, like, in his later period for sure.

Like, there will be blood is definitely his voodoo kind of thing. But, man, I love thinking about that because I think there is just, in our lives, we change, we go through these stages. And it's so cool that art so consistently reflects that with most people. it's really cool yes absolutely and i mean look we can't compare it's it's like with these great artists it's it's a quality play it's not a quantity play the the quantity varies as you as you mentioned with different filmmakers different artists you know prints somebody incredibly prolific obviously you know uh keeping that quality level but i mean the the thing is a true artist

like sticks with like what is given to them what is what is the higher power giving to you and what is the cadence that you can do that and that's whatever it is. There's no playbook for that. So it's like we celebrate what we're given and what comes out of that. So on that, before we move on from All right, I just wanted to play a little bit of the rhythm section on here, because we're going to listen to the vocals. And I wanted

give a shout out to DeAngel and Bob Power, who's playing guitar. This is DeAngela doing all the rhythm section. But, you know, isolated, you can really... Here's something that Rhodes. Or that Worley. I mean, on it. But I really do

think that this is like, because of these these really interesting groups. I think at the time, there was a little bit, like people love this record and we're like, whoa, but there was a little bit of sentiment, now that I remember back,

just like, O'Neill, especially once they got that term out there, which was early, it was kind of like, oh, this is just a throwback, and now it's going to be a fad. You know, everything that's old comes around, this is like going to the thrift store

and getting the Metallica T-shirt and that kind of thing. But like what, and you're talking about it taking time for people to catch up, that's what had to catch up. It was like, oh, no, this was not just like,

I'm going to look like, try to dress like Marvin Gay and wish that I was living in the 70s, you know. It was like, it was about the process of making a record, a very intentional record, taking those influences, but not just those influences, some of the 90s, late 80s, hip hop grooves and stuff and putting it together in something that had never been heard before, which got coined Neo-Soul, but it was, that's not just what it was. And I mean, you know, his gospel chops and roots, we're going to go back and just listen to the vocals. I don't want to tell you that this is stunning

because that'll give it away but to me, assume me, I think this is great. No, it's like I was saying in the mix, the vocals are so well set that they're not lost, but if you're not on a killer system at the right volume, you don't hear it like this. That's all right. We mean for misunderstanding

that's okay. That's okay. Because you're my girl and I'm your manning. That's just fine. That's just fine. I'll trust me while we'll be all man

Because all we Take this out It's just Talk for a fly And if everything I'll be all right At least we Try through too much

A little They skip in the middle of So like the seas back We lives Because everything Gonna be all right I'm a sucker And they gave it that

Space. They gave it that space on it. I'm glad you mentioned Marvin in your intro, because there's a lot of Marvin there. Oh, for sure, for sure. But I mean that. Oh, do, do, do. Hey, like, and then he pulled back on any backgrounds there. Like, this is as much about the arrangement. Like, when you see things that listed, like, vocal arrangements, just like, oh, yeah, he's singing all the parts, of course.

What, does he got to claim everything? It's like, yeah, that's all up in it. Like, what do you leave out so that things can shine? But, man, I could sit here and, like, we're not going to do it, because we got a whole killer album. We got Jones in my bones next, man. And it's different every time. And you know what's interesting about this?

So he was able to put these backgrounds. He would record the lead vocal, then he'd come in one at a time and layer these on. And they were not like written out. They were arranged, but they were arranged up here. And then he'd listen and then he'd add, what, two years later, maybe three years later, when he met Roy Hargrove and they started working together,

he realized, and again, this is DeAngelo, the curator, the band leader, the producer, the playing chess, that, like, Roy could do that. Yeah. With the trumpet background. One of the greatest at it. And he gave him that space in the arrangement. He's just like, okay, just add in what you hear in there.

And you could say like, oh, yeah, we happened to be around a great trumpet player, so it all came together, but knowing how to place that and to give him that space. Genius. Genius. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You liked that, didn't you?

Okay, now we're going to go on to Jones in my bones. Envelope filter. Yeah. And this is a little shades of Roodoo, Black Messiah. This is Russ Alavado. For sure.

For sure. Not foul power. And this D'Angelo playing everything. Do you like fat with a pH bass? Yeah, I do. I do, Peter. I remember what I heard. the bass on this album, I was like, it's like 45 seconds of just like,

vibed before the groove comes in. Yeah, this is really closer to the voodoo vibes. If this were like Questlove. Yeah. You could hear this on voodoo. And then a little, some Roy backgrounds. Yeah, exactly. You could hear this.

Yeah, and this is, you know, the beginning, Russ Alavado, who would go on to work with, you know, mixing and tracking most of voodoo, maybe all of it. And Black Messiah. Really, you know, part and parcel with DeAnseller. from this. So this is kind of cool to hear. He's on a couple of these tracks mixing, but you get that sound and those ideas, that creative input. Okay, so don't say your famous thing. I'm going to turn that off, but I'm going to give it to you right again in a second, okay? I want to talk about another record here, which is

like, why do we need to talk about another record? This is a killing record. A little thing called Live at the Jazz Cafe in London. I love this record. And, Sue me, and it came out, I mean, well, it came out a couple years later. It's kind of a weird. One of the greatest line of albums ever. Yeah, but they recorded it in, I believe it's September. It's definitely like in the fall just a couple months after Brown Sugar came out. And they

played a lot of the songs off of this. He was doing a lot of press and just a few gigs. He was doing some touring though. But I got to tell you, for a couple months for a new artist that's 21 years old, to get to the level that this band was at with his playing and singing is amazing. So we're going to reference on a couple of these tracks because this is the thing. This is great.

What we just heard, I love this intro. Like that melodic material is so great. How could it get any better? But it's very clean. It's very, you know, a lot of affectation, studio, not trickery, but studio sound on it. Okay, so let me just play that one more time because I do like it.

You could have that, but wouldn't you rather? A little club. So it's gone from his head now. I'll check this. Oh, push. Come on the drummer comes. On my temple. What is it?

On my temple. This is not. about like, oh, is I there in a Kengel Bucket hat? I feel like I might have been there in a Kangol bucket hat. It was 95? Yeah, 95. September 95. Jazz Cafe, which is in Camden, in London, and

really cool place. I played there a couple times. I couldn't imagine what a mob seat it must have been because this is like, you know, he had hits out. But the idea of like that you can go from just a few months before, I mean, I probably recorded maybe a year before, but within the year of

that kind of sound in your mind and then putting and then to actualize it with the whole band, I think is just fantastic. So, yes, I do like that record. We'll be hearing more from it. Should we move on? Yeah, me and those dream and eyes of mine. This is an amazing song, man.

I love this one. This is another good one that's good. By the way, this whole album, like I was just about to say, this first half is so good. So is the second half. Like, there's not a bad song. I mean, there's no bad songs.

I think DeAngelo, but there's no let up. I know. They're all bangers. I know. I thought that there was. No, there's no. But upon further, listen, I was like, I had a lot of trouble finding any kind of drop, not weakness, but just drop.

Me and those dreaming eyes of mine. Oh. Oh, whoa, whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. My power, man. That hamming.

Come on, dude. You know, when you have the bass that's so sub-base heavy, yeah. Some of those powerful things that it does is leave space. I know. Like those breaks between notes are so important. Yes. but to place in the mix

and just keep that power of that low in on the organ is very difficult. Technically, technically. Blow your mind if you like this song. My brother got his energy back. Come on, high five. The master of this small little, the small melodic riff.

Well, you know who that is. You know who reminds me of anyway? It's Donnie Halfway. Donnie Halfway on all of those albums, those live albums, his roads playing, the Worley playing where he's doing those little riffs in between his own singing. I think there's a lot of that in this, man.

And you can just hear that influence in it, man. That's a great call. Great call. Okay, if I can find this, since you liked this, I wasn't playing on this, so I have to find it. But if you like that... Oh, I love that. Black and Johnson yesterday.

This is with Angie Stone's singing background. That'd be nice to have Andrew Stelan in your back. Proof activated. Hey. But Ben. This is a killing band. Dynamics. All of his live bands were always killing.

It's like Prince. Like he had, you're so right in one of his many talents, besides obviously, like, singing and creating music, was picking personnel. And then leading it. And then leading it. But not leading like DeAngel, and I know some people that have played with him and stuff. It's like, it was very much from the keyboard, from the mic. But that is such a sky. Like those dynamics, those, and it's very easy to be like, oh, look who he had.

He had, you know, from this band up to, you know, Chris Dave and Pino. It's like, oh, you got these great musicians. No, you still got to pull that shit together. Yeah. And, you know, we've seen this before, especially back when, I mean, this is the thing. I don't want to be, I don't want to, I don't want an old man it up in here. Do it. Boomer time.

Get it's K now. We're going to do a little bit boomer time. No, but it's like, not that there's many bands or acts that could release an album now and then go out on, what is it? I don't know. And then go out on two. tour and you know a couple months later with the hits from that but we

used to see this a lot like people and then it's like you're going out and doing gigs and even great artists what would happen if you go to see them it would not be as good as the album because they didn't have the technology to cover it up back then that's part of it and it's just they didn't have their shit together yet it was hard to recreate it the fact that three months later

he's out with a band I would say arguably doing this better than on the record it's really good you know what I mean that's that's that's at 21 I'll argue with you about that point but it's it's I think as good as a live album is. Yeah. I mean, it's different. Of course, you've got people. This is a cool, I mean, it was a cool gig, you know.

Okay, so me and those dreaming eyes, I'm glad you liked this because this was like, I kind of forgot about this, but this was a big, like, remix. This was actually the most, this was the era of the remix, you know? Well, it still exists. But it was really like the prime time for that. And so there's a couple good ones. Do you want to hear number one or number two? You don't know what they are.

I mean, I'm going to give you a little. Number one. Okay. What if something happens? This is Jay Dilla, 1997. This is dope. Come off. It might be better than the original.

This is so killing. I've never heard this. Man, where have I been on my life? This. The contrast from that dillop, snare sample, and those keys rolling. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard.

That chromatic chord? Figure that shit out, Peter. What is that? I want to know. I don't want to be. So nasty. It's so good. Dilla's bass note choices are so weird and wonderful.

Newsflash, Jay Dilla was a great musician. No, no, no, but like in the cracks and then what he's leaving off. We got to get Kareem Briggins on this show to break this stuff down and put his own. It worked before. Cream Briggins has a great new album out right now with a producer named Liv. You featured it on Gina. It's incredible. Yeah, on Fresh Take Fridays.

Okay, if you like that, okay, this is dangerous. It's bad to play any other. This one's good, too, but I'm having the feeling I should have played, I should have reversed it. But this is Eric Sermon, which I always loved his stuff. In Redmond. Oh, I know Eric Sermon. Yeah, Redmond, yeah. Redmond.

Joshua Redmond. This is. Now we're in the 90s, early 90s. Come on. I'm here all day for this. Don't tell me with a good time. Might not have to come out in the nights, but there's still some of these around then. Keep cuts here, man. Great picks. That's how we do it.

Wow. This stuff's not even on the record. But yeah, anyway, so that one, that one was the most remixed one for whatever. It's enough to make me say like, shit, damn. Motherfuck. Which happens to be the name of the next track. Yeah, we're not just potty mouths. What's funny is, wasn't this the period? Wait, mid-90s, this was like the... Typagore? Tipagore.

This was the, what was your thing? Just say no? No, parental advisory stickers. Yeah. This one definitely. I took it off, but it was definitely on it. Yes. Okay, so now we're coming to shit damn motherfucker.

And this is like, this is just Gianjolo and Bob Power. You're seeing outside of the two of the cuts, a real pattern on this. This is hard. This might be my favorite track. Every track, once I hear it and I'm in it, is my favorite track.

But this one is the one I think about a lot. Do you like a nice, nasty cheating song? Yes. That's what this is. Oh. It might be my favorite genre. song. Nasty cheating songs?

Yeah. Borderline murder. Bluesy murder. The big payback? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's ominous. It's creep, not creepy.

It's, it's nefarious already, right? And I love the build on this. A little jazzy release, like, maybe it's not true. They're tipping. Oh, it's true. No, we bet. He hadn't even started yet. Can we do that?

It's a great question. It's a great question. It's valid. Man, this is the most direct. track to. There's no allegory or simile or metaphor. Why are you sleeping with my woman? It's not even a setup of came home early from work. There's none of that. And apparently

and you know what? Would you not feel that way? Yeah. It's not what you'd say? Shit, damn. Be the first thing I would say. Apparently people asked G. Edgeel, like in interviews with this, I blew up, or like, what's the story all that? They're like, what do you mean? They're like in Virginia, this happens. all the time.

He's like, that's the... Run into the next verse. I mean, this might be... How do you make it sound so pretty? I used to think that was an ugly word, but not after this. It's so good, man. It's so good.

Let's keep going. I could talk forever about it. Well, I could also say, if you like that, wouldn't you rather? This is one that... It is cool that there's like... The studio version made. The studio version's hard to beat.

It's great that you're showing this, like... Because this came out right as the album was coming out. Oh. The tipping part is hit for on this, I think. They just go harder. I think I saw a sharp. I don't know the shark game.

I mean, they go big band. In a live context, it makes so much sense. So good. All right, I want to get to smooth because we have... I want to just, I just want to go, I want to go sit in front of the jazz cafe in Camden and London with some B&O headphones on and just listen to this with my eyes closed. I don't care if I get robbed. I don't care what they've rains every day.

I don't care. Suey. Okay. What did you say? You heard it here, folks. London, be on the lookout. No, I want to get to smooth because we actually have, not only do we have friend of the show, actually a couple friends of the show on this.

Friends of mine. We actually interviewed the guitarist on this next track. Back up, you remember the, let me take you back to 2020, Peter. January 2020. Was it still out? No, this was after. No. January 2020.

Yes. Before the COVID pandemic. What's that? You, me, and our good friend, Sean Weil, we're in New Orleans. Yes. Nalans is what we were saying back then. And we were at the Jen conference. Yes.

And we interviewed one Mark Whitfield for this show. Yes, we did. Do you remember that? I absolutely do. Now that you've reminded me. I remember that's where it was. That was great. Well, we're going to hear right at the beginning of this track.

This is Mark Whitfield. He's cutting like a dagger through there, Mark Whitfield. Man, his whole personality. Shredding. Yeah. And this is... The groove? What?

Gene Lake on the drums. Larry Grenadier. on the bass. Larry Grenadier on acoustic. At this time, the Brad Meldow trio. Okay. I gotta just play.

This is one of the great little, like, to me, this is almost like, well, I think Larry said something about this. Like, it's almost like Count Basie, where you're like, oh, that's so simple, but it's so perfect.

But this little line, this piano line, and this is some of the, there's not a lot of acoustic piano that DeAngelo plays on this record, but there is some, and this is some of it, but this little melody line,

it's just so perfect. And I was saying, like, like, well I'm gonna play it I don't tell you what that tinkly bassie that tinkly Amma Jamal what would I have played

you would have marked Whitfield the hell out of that and then the sort of not antithesis but the the corollary the contrast to what Whitfield just played so great and this minor six vibe it's a little sneaky

jazz right definitely jazzy It's like Henry Mancini, like... Is it jazz? I can't stand on changing so slow. Sharp nine chord there. Yeah. There's a great piano solo, too.

We're going to get to that a little later in the categories, though. I mean, could DeAngelo have been... He could have been a jazz pianist almost. Interesting, you would say that. Yes. And I don't know that this is a pivotal point, but this is straight from DeAngelo's mouth talking about a really interesting thing

And from the same interview we heard earlier, which was, I believe, from like around 2014, something like that. I'm going to pass you to this guy at VCU who still, in Virginia, who still taught the VCU was Ellis Marcellus. Wow. Wenton's father. Wow. Who was still teaching at VCU. And I went and audition for Ellis Marcellus. And James Moody, matter of fact, James Moody was up there.

And I was like, I was like, 13, 14, and got on the piano and I played, I played the Anita Baker song, because it was the jazziest song I could think of. That's so funny. So I put it in New Baker and, you know, they were impressed and I was like, oh, that's good, young blood, and wow, I was like, you know, are you gonna teach me?

Do I get to, you know? He's like, nah, I'm getting ready to leave. So he was giving me to leave. year and go teach back in New Orleans. So I never got a chance to really get any, like, jazz training or what have you like that. But I always felt like that was a good thing that I didn't. Why? Because it would have changed my whole style.

I would have changed my whole style of playing. That's what I meant to be, I guess. Yeah. Man, what a wise old soul. It's kind of like, you know. I mean, it's a real sliding doors moment. Yes. You know, if Ellis Marcellus is there for another three years,

and he's like, yeah, let's do it. I mean, DeAngelo could have been Sullivan Fordner before Sullivan Fordner, you know what I mean? I know. It's like, what do you expose? Like, wait, where's the intersection? Serendipity, right? It's like what's meant to be...

We just mentioned two 90s rom-coms, by the way. Slaghtherstor's serendipity, so shout out. But yeah, it is. It is like... Shout up Matthew McConaughey. I also, man, I wouldn't be lying if I thought sometimes the same thing about me. Like, if I didn't have a band director,

shout out Jeff Melsia in my sophomore year in high school. Thanks a lot for all the Herbie Hancock CDs, man. Yeah, no, but I mean, someone who's pointing me towards straight ahead jazz very heavily, got me lessons, and those lessons led to gigs really early, and that led to a path of this, that, and the other. Like, I wonder about that sliding doors moment. And I wonder, too, about the money. Well, I know.

More or less. I don't know. I'm kidding. No, but, you know, maybe that's a little bit of what he's talking about. It's like, there is, like, a limiting mindset sometimes, not in jazz, musicians ever, but in like the jazz industry about what it could be, what the sound is, how broad it is, and there's not in other forms of the music. You know what's crazy about this?

I just realized, like, I had met Ellis Marcellus right before this when I was in high school. And I was actually thinking about going, I had met Wintmarsallis before that. He had talked about, you know, you should study with my dad. He could show you, he'll show you, because Wint was helping with different things every time he'd come through St. Louis and was a mentor to me. and to many. And he's like, you should study.

And then I think he told me, or I found out that Ellis had gotten this position at VCU in Virginia. And when I was thinking about, you know, going to music school, I really wanted to play jazz. And I was like, can I go to New York? But there wasn't like, there was jazz programs, but not like there is today. And so I kind of had my mind on it.

And I remember calling, because you used to have to call on a telephone and say, hello, you know. Is that how you talking? Yeah, a little bit. It's Mr. Marcellus. But I called him. and was like, I'd love the company called Ellis.

Ellis, Marseis. In fact, went and gave me his number in Virginia, and I called him on a landline. We were going landline to landline back then, my friend. And I remember we talked, he's like, yeah, well, you know, the program. He kind of discouraged me because he's like, I'm not really sure about the program or how much longer I'm going to be here.

And then I heard this guy playing Anita Baker in the background. Now it's all coming together. No, I didn't hear that. But he discouraged me, and sure enough, the next year, he went back to New Orleans, started the program at UNO. The same time for you and DiAngelo, we're both talking Ellis.

Yeah. Actually, now that I just put that together. Me and like a hundred other pianists. Again, like sliding doors moment. You could have gone to music school studying with Ellis Marcellus and been a peer of DeAngelis. Well, more importantly, I could have been hanging with

DeAngel and made it on this record. But yeah, no, but I was probably 17. Yeah, I was 17. It is crazy. It is crazy. By the way, I'm not trying to discourage anybody from a career in jazz at all. It is just an interesting thought.

It's like, I mean, for all of us, it's like you get on these paths and like just one decision gets made or one person points you in a direction and like, you know, now that's your whole life. I think DiAngelo was, and look, I'm projecting some. This is not like, I'm not a journalist, and I didn't know him.

I know a lot of people that know him, and I've heard the same stories. Most people have, but you just got the feeling from listening to interviews and researching for this and listen to his music. And when you love somebody's music so much, you do start to project certain things on him, so I may be doing that.

But I have the feeling he's just one of those people. We all know people like this, that they're just so damn good at like doing what they're supposed to do in this world. You know, they don't get caught up with like what you're saying like, like you're even questioning, you know,

oh, if I hadn't my band, like, I don't think he questioned. He's just like, no, I didn't say it was just wasn't meant to be. It wasn't meant. And then later on, I'm willing to wait till later on to have that filled in when that other door opens. Yeah. Like just to give themselves. And that's a very rare thing.

I'm not good at that at all. No, to be perfectly clear, I think I'm exactly where I should be. Like, just with all my skills have luckily come. together to be sitting in front of this microphone with you, my friend. But it is these interesting moments that happen early in our life that dictate the rest of our life. Man, it's like I think about, and I connect DeAngel's so much with Roy Hargrove and their musical camaraderie and their brotherhood through the music and kind of like, you know, this intersection of hip-hop, soul, jazz, gospel, that they were both such, just so much innately.

And then Raphael said, like, these different people that come together where they're just like, you're connected and you know it, you know. Absolutely. Okay. Peter, this next track. Cruising. Cruising. I love the original, Smokey Robinson.

Yeah. Sue you. I'm not going to sue you. Cruising together. Let's do it. And I love this more. You would not be the first to say that. I love both.

I mean, those both are amazing, but this is... And number three, the highest level, is this at the jazz cafe. No, they didn't do this. Also, it's like, we're now in the back half of the album. Yeah. Perfect place for a couple. Number seven out of ten. Perfect spot.

Just when you're like, okay, I'm learning all these new songs. I've never heard these sounds before. How about a little Smokey Robinson? Oh, man. You know, how about a little childhood? How can we all,

can we gather around the fire, the sole fireplace? Come on, kids. And this one's interesting, too, because this is, I think the only track is entirely played, produced everything by DeAngelo. I think it's the one with strings, too.

Dominant seven. Dominant four. I mean, I think about, this was from 1979, right? Yeah. I think about his choice of covers on these first two albums. He does this on Brown Sugar

and he does feel like making love that Roberta Flack made famous from... Is that first take? It was at first take, I think, yeah, yeah. And it just shows you, I mean, it backs up what we're talking about here,

his love for those 70s soul music that sound, you know? Are both those right up there with the originals? I think both of those, for me, In my humble opinion, I like better than the movies. And I got some flak when I said that about Feel Like Making Love

when we did our Voodoo album. I stand by it, man. That version of Feel Like Making Love on Voodoo is, it might, I mean, it's one of the better tracks on that whole album. That was great. Which is full of great tracks. Another no skip album, you know what I mean? I think, too, like, it's hard for us to remember

like how revolutionary or evolutionary, like the sound of this record you really hear on this track in mid-90s R&B. When you talk about Boys Demand, Mariah Carey was huge. Yes, sir. I mean, there was great records out of this time,

but this was like... No, all of those artists were amazing. Jodacy, like all of that stuff, I couldn't learn enough of them. Atlanta's Morseh. Had probably the biggest record of this period.

R&B? Lawrence Morriset? No, but I'm just, you know... Jaggleville. That was a huge monster album. But yeah, yeah. Man. There were some people like me

listen to... I had both those CDs, my friend. Jack a little. Absolutely. You had Jagged Little. You did. I have Jagal Little.

That was actually a year before this, though, wasn't it? No, it was 95. It was that? Okay. I think so. Yeah. I thought was a good record. Cool.

Cool. Cool. Cruzing. I like it. I love it. Yeah. Okay. Hey, Peter.

Yes. We were just talking about that feel like making love from DeAngelo's Voodoo album. Yes. Did you know that I did a whole lesson on that song, that version of the song, all of the harmonic music, the modal interchange that happens. It's great. Remember I was here with you, but yeah. Oh, yeah.

On my course, the Harmony Games Unlimited at Open Studio Jazz. Yeah. And just today, literally this morning, as I speak this, I recorded a lesson on the last track of Brown Sugar, higher also from that course. Yeah, comedy games unlimited. Yeah, we're not just jazz here. We're jazz adjacent.

We're soul. What we like to do is take that lens of jazz and shine it. Does a lens shine? We don't know. We're looking at it. We're looking through that jazz lens because it exposes so much great stuff in soul music, R&B, great music. That's right.

So if you're looking to not just enjoy the great music of, people like DeAngelo, Stevie Wonder, and jazz musicians too, like Bill Evans, Stu Kellington, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis. Check out OpenStudiojazz.com. Go to Open Studiojazz.com slash YHI to start your free trial. That's Open StudioJazz.com slash YHI for your jazz lesson needs. There he is. Back to the show.

Okay, we're moving on to track number eight. Oh, we got a little more jazz. I have this listed as Jazzing number two. For sure. Okay. There might even be a little straight-up swing on this. When we get by, this is another one of the Russ Elavado mixes, just for those of you following it home.

Shout out to Russ Elavado. We didn't talk about him enough on the voodoo episode, although we did talk about him a lot, but he still deserves so much credit on these things, man. His sound is so distinct. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's straight up tipping. Yeah.

This song has grown on me so much over the years. I loved this. I used to skip, I was kind of a jazz purist when this record came out. For sure. This is not a nerdy jazz purist. It doesn't swing like Art Blakey. I can't listen to it. I mean, I was damn you're still listening

Art Blakey live at this time. You know what pulls this together is this, the melody. Yeah. I love the 90s band. I want to go back, man. Nobody unfollowed me then. Just everything smelled like Dracar noir. No YouTube comments saying, the bald one.

I can get by. You know what's interesting on this, too, is that, oh, I got him. I got them. No. I realize this whole record and we're going to talk right after this about is this too clean

or as I don't want to give away what DeAngelo calls his own record but because of maybe a cleaner sonic palette that's provided in the mixes compared to voodoo for sure you can understand everything DeAngel is singing we talked about this with voodoo

you can't understand anything so sublimated in the mix and even a little more mumbly in the performances on voodoo which producer Caleb was like I mean it's kind of good it's a pretty dirty album if he listed what he's singing this one's crystal well this is a few things that you're kind of

but it's like shit damn motherfucker but a lot of it is the mix you know so in fact actually this is a good this is de angelo speaking you know years later about this record and sort of some very interesting thoughts specifically about kind of the sound of it and the mix of it

and so we went into the studio to record But, I mean, it was really like a, in my opinion, I felt like after it was done, I loved it, but there were certain songs that I felt it lost something between the demo version and all of the production that went into it. I felt like it lost, like it got a little homogenized, in my opinion. Homogenous. That's very, very interesting. Bottom D.

I remember hearing something about it that he was learning from this experience and put that into Voodoo and it might have been something I read on Voodoo itself but like that's very interesting to hear him say that. Yeah.

You know, and you can hear how much more organic he goes in Voodoo five years later and how much more of a band album that is even. It's not just him, right? It's like all of these amazing musicians

that are really jamming for years to get that album. And I think it kind of validates a little bit my thoughts in terms of the live stuff right after this being a little bit closer to his vision on it perhaps but let's just hear okay you ready for the big hit you want to hear raphael sadique who's you know co-wrote this famously

lady with d'angelo you want to hear him talking about this first or you want to just jump in do you do whatever you need to do i started playing uh raphael sadi lady that's the first thing we worked on was lady wow i played the guitar riff for de angelo and he He said, I like it. I said, cool. So I was going to call somebody over to play my guitar parts over. He said, no, you should leave what you did. And that's the first time my guitar playing ever got on the record.

Wow. Ever got on the record, yeah. But I think how we came up with that we figured it out, we were playing, and we were playing behind the beat. But I think we were just really trying to lock something in. And so he would fall back And he would start laughing And then I would fall back

And we started kind of smiling and laughing And it became We just kept going back and forth But not talking about it And it became Sort of the style of his record But that's the way he sings That's the way he plays

And it's just natural for him But he's a Dilla fan And so then I'm a Dilla fan too So I figured it out later We were just mocking Dilla Are we just So are we heard it through hip hop? Yeah, right.

Maybe we just not deal up. Maybe we heard it on some, on some, on some wool-tening records. Maybe we heard it on some tribe records. That's cool. We just love, I love hip-hop. Yeah. Right, so, I think. That's very cool.

Both our love for the hawk is in gospel and hip-hop and rock and songwriting. It was just, it was just the perfect storm at the right time. Shout out Justin Richmond, friend of the pod. Guest of the pod, that was from his interview for Broken Records. Here's Lady. You heard that? Yeah, I think Raphael had that line together. That's it for me.

When the bass comes in there, that's all I need ever. I might start on the chorus. A good chorus start, let's do it. Intro. It's an important part of the form, man. It usually comes later, though. It's all right. One of the greatest songs of the 1990s.

Yes. Was this the biggest hit over here? I think of it. I think so. Right here. Here's that line again. Saddique's on bass as well and guitars. We got to get some bigger speakers in here, man.

We've got to get a better sound system. I know, but I want to hear that. You don't feel it. Okay, again, that's great. What a great partnership, him and Raphael, Sadiq. It's so cool that he had this mentors. They only did hits together. That's nice, but perhaps you'd rather...

No. I don't know. Check the... Okay, maybe. It's not either or. Live Soul Records. This is channeling Donnie Hathaway. Live at the bitter end.

It's different. It's not better. Free, open form. You don't have to be on a click track. Is that a little Teddy Pendergrass in this one? A little Teddy Pendergast? He couldn't have done that many gigs? Well, he did do a lot of gigs in church.

Man, this is the kind of thing. How many gigs have you been on, especially in your younger years, where stuff like this just goes disaster. You can't hear. I've never been on a gig like that. I'll be honest. Oh, man.

And later on, I'm going to jump ahead just to really. They really start. Yeah, it's fun. Fun. We're just having fun here on a Thursday. That's so great. And ultimate track on the album, too. There's only one left.

Yeah, how did that happen that the big hit was... Number nine? Was buried down there a little bit. It happens a lot, man. It happens a lot. That's true. But number 10...

First of all, can I just say just my... My lizard brain loves the 10. My Roman brain. Loves a 10... Romans! That's Monty Python. Thank you.

Loves a 10-track album. There's just something very clean about it. That's right. X. X. But the higher, this is, I love it,

I love this so much. Should we maybe jump in, as we're coming towards the end of the episode, jump into the tracks. For sure, for sure. I mean,

the category, sorry. So we have, as you like to say, we have 10 categories, right? 9, 8, 10, just like you like it.

And this, the first category is Desert Island tracks, and this is my Desert Island track. It's higher, and he's going to end with church. Yeah, exactly.

It's Ralph. I believe it's Roll, is how you pronounce it. Ralph Roll. Ralph Roll. On the drums? Rich Roll's brother, my friend. Doubted.

Will Lee on the bass from the late show at David Letterman's band. Bob Power and rhythm guitar. That's such a church entrance, too. Oh. Oh, my goodness. It's so great. It's not going anywhere, Peter. Come on, we're not going anywhere.

I don't have an appointment. Appointment with the Lord. Organ playing on it. It's so amazing. Look at him's doing the right thing, man. Doing the right thing. I love that language. I mean, it's not just

That thing? Oh. What am I doing? Wow. And watching all that love Yeah. I mean, it's not just soul music of the 70s. It's gospel music of the 70s.

And these are not all gospel musicians that came up with the church. Like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about leadership, that are even playing on this track. Leadership is right. Bob Power, Will Lee, I don't know, I doubt they did, but they're playing it. Changes are killing on this. I mean, this, with everything is so great on this record, this might be like DiAngelo's right down in the middle of his lane.

I mean, this is what he's been doing since he's a kid. Man, this is like, you just feel like, you know. Oh, and I mean, this is his highest creativity for vocal arrangements on this record, too. The CD player, go for a beat. Yeah, so I'm on the desert island. I mean, I'm cool. Yeah, you're good with the Lord. Every day.

Yeah. This is, I'm getting right with the Lord. I'm being entertained. Man. The soul is satisfied. Yeah, this, I just think that, like, his, he's so creative on everything. Hip-hop soul, we talk about gospel, jazz, you know, rock. especially later on you know but like I don't know man gospel is like sometimes you know he's got rage

but when he comes here for sure just he gets so creative everything he's doing what I love about this track for me is this has been like coming back to brown sugar over the years yes as an album this one means more to me as the years go by when I was 15 and I first heard this album I didn't really get it yeah I didn't wasn't that interested in it right it's why my desert island on the track is Brown Sugar, just because the nostalgic factor of it, like, of remembering high school parties with it playing, remembering driving around in my 84 S-10 with it bumping, of like, of like feeling like I was, like,

it's something from my generation, like a new kind of music that I'd never heard before. So Brown Sugar's my Desert Island. But, man, higher means probably the most to me right now from this whole album. That's great. Apex Moment. What do you got? So I've got... This would be...

Apex Moment means, like, the, our personal opinions on the highlight of the album. Yeah, and this is very counterintuitive because there's a bunch of moments that I first wrote down on higher that are true, I mean, like, to me, that track, it's almost, you know, in a different way, stylistically and tempo-wise,

but it's like a music in my mind, evil. Like, in a way, there's no debate, like the apex moment of the album, it all leads to Rome, right? I think you're right. So there's that, but... Second Rome reference is the X. But, so I'm going a little counterintuitive,

but I like, my new thing is on Apex Mom's, I'm trying to find little weird hidden things that are just like, woo, like fun things that you wouldn't expect. We like fun around it, we like fun. Yeah, so DiAngelo's piano playing on Smooth, we talked about. But I love his solo.

Like, he was not known as like this incredible, I mean, he had a lot of jazz. This is a good solo, though. And jazz harmony, but he wasn't like ripping and running on that. But on this, I don't know, man. There's some killing stuff. It's not even an official solo. Kind of sneaks in there, though.

You could have done it. You could have learned that. But, I mean, the reality is that's all the jazz piano most people want to hear anyway. 100%. That's all a lot of ourselves. So he nailed it. Yeah.

But you know what that reminded me of? Man, talk about Jay Dilla. So I got your spirits up. I got you higher earlier. Here we go. But, man, I can't take it, man. I forgot about this. You might not know this.

Can we do some Dilla on this show either? We got to do a whole Dilla show. My dream is, Carriene Riggins, is going to be sitting here. in the middle of us and we're going to be like high-fiving about, yeah. But check this out. Okay, and then I can tell my Kareem Riggins story when he came and played with us

with Roy Hargraf when I first met him when he was 20 years old and killed it. You might not know this as one of G. Angel's greatest piano solos, but check this out. I love this track. This is common, right? This is common. Dillabee from... What is this? The light?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there's, it's similar to the... A little sneaking. It's got this great mix on the... Yeah. Sneaking in with... So, great common stuff. I'm going to sneak ahead.

A D'Angelo? That's D'Angelo. I steal this. Yeah. I do that. You're talking about... Knowing what to play? There, that line, man.

This gets me everything. Do you that? Check it up. This turned into a dinner show. To that Dominus 7. Oh, man. That's another Donnie thing. Another Donnie Hathaway thing.

Throwing in that Dominus 7. A little herbie. Herbie octaves. Come on. Yeah. So anyway, that's... Man, the whole rest of this thing is just killing. So your Apex Moment is Adela track.

What's DeAngelo playing solo? On a different record. My Apex moment... And I highlighted the other record that I thought was... My Apex Moment from Brown Sugar, Peter... I'm sorry, you didn't want me to play you that until you was Dei-Angelo. We do have to do Adela episode for sure. Come on.

I feel like we just did. I know. I love it so much when the bass drops on lady. Like when that first, you're my lady and the bass comes in, I feel like that's, to me, the greatest moment of the whole album, if not the greatest moment of 1995, you know? This was 1995. Not this version.

Sorry. I love the live version. I'm talking about the studio. Yeah, yeah. What is that? Reverse bass. Oh, and it's like, he somehow gets that rhythm in it. It's killing.

with the bass drum. So good. What do you got for a bespoke playlist title? I got bridge builders. Good. I think, you know, bringing the different styles, hip-hop soul, not neo-soul, jazz, gospel, as we said. What do you got? I have not Neo-Soul, but I have Neo-Bam.

So, you know, you mentioned these bridge builders, right? This is like soul, hip-hop jazz. Like, this to me is why Nicholas Payton coined that term Black American music and has been pushing for the use of it to define this because the sensibilities of this philosophical alignment of those three kinds of music

is so evident in black American music. It is the DNA of it and this album is Black American music at its core at its best and it is in 1995 the pinnacle of really all music in America

to me this album was But to me, it combines all of those elements in a way that I think, for my ear, all Black American music has. It's just a continuous thread. The genres are a bunch of usually like marketing exec BS. You know what I mean? I mean, even we learned here. Everybody said, this is a birth of a new genre, Neo Soul. And Daniel himself is like, it's not how I see it.

I see it's black music. And I think there's something important for all people who make music to think about how that artist is that you love, thinks about how they make their music, because it helps us make music. Like the sensibilities and the way the black American music is made is as important, the culture of that is as important as anything else, as any of the sounds or anything that we're getting here. So I think you can't take the gospel out of jazz.

You can't take the jazz out of soul. You can't take the soul out of hip-hop. Like, it's all connected. You can't take the D out of Angelo. 100% it's DeAngelo Thank you for that yeah

and I think that's but this is what makes it so fun to like deconstruct or just to look at the construction of this stuff because when you have

something that's great you know if you believe that it's great or if you don't care whatever but it's like to go in and see you know what are the gospel what were the details

that were worked on like this stuff isn't just it's not just random and provisitorial like look how genius just came up with this like the craft that goes into this

especially when you're bringing in these different elements is, it's, it's, it's, it's uncanny. For sure. Yeah. So that was bespoke play as, uh-oh, quibble bits. This will be an interesting one. What's your quibble bit?

So mine really is, I mean, it really is a small bit, but like some of the drum loops, I do wish that there was Questlove. I do wish that he had, like, like, we were listening to, um, uh, me and those dream and eyes, right? I think that was one of the ones we were listening to. And I was like, man, I wish that was on voodoo so that I could hear Pino, Pino, Patov, and Questlove play on that in Roy. You know what I mean?

Like, like, now. that's a very, like, I still love this whole album and I love the drum samples, but if I had to, if I had to put something in this category, it would be that. Well, you can just listen to Jazz Cafe, and that's, that's what I'm saying, there's your solution right there. Evangelist for Jazz Cafe. What's your quibble bit?

That is this record, maybe similar to that, but not so much, so much with the drum loops, but is it too, in the words of DiAngelo, homogenized, and also in that interview, he goes on to call it buttery. He felt that is, and I mean, Too clean and too pristine. Yeah, well, the interviewer actually said, is too clean?

He's like, not clean, he's just like buttery. Interesting. You know, is it too, he said some of the tracks. Some of the stuff that he felt was ready to go off of the demos that he had done over those three months. Yeah. He felt that the machine on them after that. Are those demos anywhere in your research? That would have been something.

If only we had an hour and a half podcast, we could have played those on. Come back. I used to, man, when I was writing a lot of more pop songs, I love making demos. And I would, it was a problem. You get attached to those demos, you know? Yeah. It's hard not. But to tell you the truth, that's not even...

I mean, Paul, listen to this, because we have jazz capped... I actually love that we have this studio version. I think it's great. My actual quibble bit would probably be the strings on Cruzeant, which I think are the only strings on here. They're just right. They're way in the background, too. It might actually be better if you could hear them better.

I think they're good, but I think there's... You're right. There's something a little bit... They could be a little better. But he gets to that later on his last record. He does. Snobometer. Yeah, the strings on Black Messiah are amazing.

Incredible. Amazing. I have a three. Okay. I have a five, so that comes out to eight. That's not how it works. Okay, is it better, so this is interesting. That's what we're going to do. We're not even going to talk about it anymore.

We don't talk about thermometer. Yeah. So usually you have like, is it better than kind of blue? Or for an album like this, we might do, is it better than Stevie Wonder's Intervisions? But you have, is it better than Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill? Because I knew we were going to talk about it. I'm so prescient of me, right?

I actually do also love Jagged Little Pill, speaking of high school. Like, it was such popular music. I never bought that album or anything. like I bought this one, but I do love a lot of those songs, but I do think that yes, it is better than Jaggle Little Pill. I'd agree, yes, but I think Jagal Little Pill, I wouldn't mind that showing up on this. It'd be fun to do Jagal Pill.

Producer Liz in Canada would probably appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, there's some great stuff on there. I mean, I don't know if we get it, like some of these records we get into, and it's like, oh yeah, it's great, as I expect like this, these really, really great ones, like the more you go back to them, be like, oh, oh, there's so many layers. I don't know, there's definitely some layers there, but not, not, Not like on this one.

Accoutrements. So the cover, the album notes, the back cover, what do you think? Man, I'm going nine. And because I think the back cover is so just a reminder. I mean, that's so not, like that's soul, that's R&B, that's hip-hop, that's 90s, got the big Timberlins on. And I love this picture in here. I love the one with the piano. It's a great jacket.

It's great boots. Great jeans. What a model DeAngelo was. Have you seen the Vanity Fair shot? I mean, just a superbly attractive man. But at the piano, I love piano. So that's a great one. That look and his hair.

To me, the only thing that pulls it back from a 10 in a way is the cover. I would give the cover an 8, only because it looks like the background's been removed, which is easy to do on your iPhone now. And they did. I mean, it's great. But I think all these other pictures. The whole package is...

I have nine. I have nine as well. Okay. What do you got in up next? You're going to be shocked at this. Live at the Jazz Cafe. Live at London Jazz Cafe. Okay.

I'm going to move on. Because that's literally what I'll be... I have all back. I have Badoism, 1997. A couple years later, Erica Badoo kind of solidifies this quote-unquote genre. Yeah, absolutely. Sulkarian. Now, that we should be talking about, Sulkrarians, as opposed to the Neo-Soul.

Agreed. You know what? We are back on Apple Podcasts. Apple Podcasts loves us. We got featured on the new page. We've been making a lot of moves over there. Yeah, that's great. But we do want to remind you.

Fresh off of our Ambi nominations. Okay, let's not brag. We do want to remind you, though, that we really, appreciate any ratings and reviews you put for this podcast, whether that's on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or on YouTube. Give us a rating and review. Now, if you're not like a technological working in Silicon Valley, it can be difficult. I'm going to put that out there. Is that a good way to get reviews? Yeah, to get to the review part. You can do it. You can do it. You got to log in and do it. I mean, we have hundreds of them. Yeah, we do. Actually, it's not hard at all. That's a challenge for you.

So here's a couple. This one is from Fletch, NYC. I think that's Chevy Chase's account. It says my, no, it's the guy from Say it from Ladoo, actually. It's my favorite new podcast. Great tunes and expert analysis. This one is from Curious House Hunter, and this is, I stumbled upon this podcast accidentally while looking for jazz piano tutorials. It has become a weekly ritual listening to Adam and Peter discuss amazing music, some of which I grew up with,

but some they've introduced me to. Oh, we love to hear that. This podcast has brought a tremendous amount of joy into my life, in addition to being warm and funny and authentic. Adam and Peter are incredible. I think it's just warm and fuzzy and authentic. Musicians and the intro and outro musical arrangements are fantastic. I'm also an open studio member,

shout out, curious House Hunter. So I will give that a plug here as well. I appreciate that. As a lifetime, classically trained pianist, I'd long given up transitioning to jazz, but I'm giving it one more shot. Thanks so much for all the work that goes into the show. It's truly special.

Thank you, House Hunter. And a reminder, if you want to learn more about some of the piano courses we make at Open Studio, go to Open Studio jazz.com slash YHI and start your 14-day free trial. Peter, you got anything else? I think that's it, man. I'm inspired, man.

I'm thankful for this record. I'm thankful for you. I'm thankful for my family, for my parents. I know, now I've got to name everybody. It's like an acceptance speech. Oscars came early. I want to just be, I've been so excited about the nomination. Buddy, we didn't win the ambi.

Just reminder. Until next time. You'll hear it.