You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Burning Questions: Does Bebop Still Matter in 2020?

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

Peter and Adam are going to be streaming and taking your questions live on Open Studio's Instagram every Saturday for the duration of the global health crisis. In this episode, Peter and Adam help you out with altered dominant lines, discuss the relevance of bebop in modern jazz, and give some advice on how to balance different aspects of practice.Links From This Episode:There's a new course from Open Studio: Rhythm Section Workout is available now! Play along with Peter Martin on piano, Reuben Rogers on bass, and Gregory Hutchinson on drums as they teach you the tips and tricks to playing with a bandToday's Open Studio Live Events (All times in EDT):1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)4:00 PM - Piano Office Hours with Peter and Adam (for Members Only)For the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkIn light of the worldwide coronavirus pandemic, we understand that money is tight for a lot of people right now. That's why we've decided that for the duration of this crisis, we'll be running a Choose What You Pay campaign at Open Studio. Choose whichever course you want and then let us know how much you're willing to pay - that's it. For more info, click this link.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Adam. Yo, you excited to be back on the podcast today. I'm always excited to be on the podcast. Today, you're my guest, and I'm your guest on the You'll Hear It Podcast. What? I have some hard-hitting questions. I'm Adam Annis. And I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to The You'll Hear Podcast. Daily Music Advice coming at you. Coming at you today, again, live from Instagram. Our Instagram Q&As have been so popular that we thought we would continue on. Our podcast listeners are digging them. Yep. And we're digging them too. And we're happy to connect here with the beautiful people of Instagram.

Instagram is the most, the prettiest people on any social media site, for sure. Well, is it, though? Is it actually all? Or is it just that's where we all put our best face forward on the idea? That's where we put our best face forward. It's not like the Twitter trolls that just are very funny or good, quippy writers or the Facebook grandmas with the pictures of the grandkids.

This is where all the beautiful people go. Right. or the TikTok where it's all about the dance moves, you know. I still don't know what that is. That's coming soon. Coming soon. All right. So let's get into this because we got some good questions, I believe.

Why don't you kick it off, Adam? Yeah, our first question is from Lev. Lev asks, I'm looking to expand my vocabulary and creativity in altered dominant voicings and lines. Advice. So, yeah. Altered dominant voicings and lines. Well, first of all, like a great way to start. start with altered dominant voicings. There's an easy voicing that you can do in a couple

different, actually two different inversions that gets you that probably the most like pendantic altered dominant sound, right? Just the most common basic bob altered dominant sound. And if you think, Lev, you're on a C7 altered, right? You want to play the shell in your left hand. So E and B flat, right? The third and the seventh. And then in your right hand, you can play one or both of the following triads, a flat major or G flat major. And you can do these in different inversions. So you could have in your left hand,

E on the bottom and B flat on the top or B flat on the bottom and E on the top. And then you can do whatever of the three major triad inversions for the A flat and the G flat in your right hand. And you can actually play those together. They sound really good walking down or walking up leading to like, again,

in C7 altered, you know, leading to an F minor and that sounds really, really, good. I think that's kind of the first way into, especially hearing how altered dominant voicing can sound not bad, I was going to say best, but the most common that you hear, right? That's like when I think what's an altered dominant voicing, that like E, B, flat and then an A flat triad in my right hand. That's like basic Bob altered dominant right there. Right. And that's so that would give you your sharp nine, your flat 13. But I think more importantly, as you pointed out, that's giving you, you know, a very

definitive shape that is foundational because it's a triad, that a flat try it up there. And you can put it in different inversions and you have the same elements, but can be surprisingly different sound when you're using it as a voicing. But I think what's important is to think about the altered sound in kind of a holistic way. So we're thinking about the voicing. We're thinking about the melodic content that comes out of the shapes. make up the different voicing that we can use. And then we're also thinking about and trying to hear really what the function of the altered

altered scale, altered sound, and the positioning of it where and where it's coming from and where it's going. And so as we're working on this, a lot of times we get so stuck in just playing the altered scale, working on that, working on voicing, sitting there stationary. And by its very nature, probably the most effective use of the altered sound. the altered scale, the altered core, the altered voicing is as a transition and setting up tension and release. So it's hard to do this when you're trying to learn something, especially when it's in tricky

keys or you're not sure about it or you're having trouble hearing it. But always try to take that other step, slow down a little bit and think about different places you can go to. And I know we talk about going to a minor, but it can certainly go to a major. It can go to a minor with a major seven. It can resolve in different places and really understanding how that works as you work out these voicing and these shapes and these melodic patterns, you know, to work out where they're going to end up. It behooves you to do that as you're learning them, not just wait until you have it

and then say, oh, now I'm going to think about it in context. That's great point. And the cool thing about actually using these triads, like you said, they're so universal that you can use them there in the voicings left, but you can also, this, you know, you talked about lines, right? Expanding your dominant, your alter dominant voicings and lines. This is your like way in. for lines as well, these triad pairs is what we're calling them. And you can go, you know, again, basic Bob and just like, do-dood-d-d-do-d-do-d-do-do, just down, going down, up, going up. But then experiment with combinations.

And then experiment with what we're calling triad plus one, where you can borrow one note from one of the triads and add it to the other triad. And now you have like a four-note shape. And then you can do all sorts of different combinations like that. This is when you hear those people who have modern-sounding lines. that's what they're doing. They're using this sort of triadic or pentatonic.

I mean, it sounds pentatonic, but that's really too simplistic of an approach. It's really more of like a shaped approach to their lines. Yeah. And this is what they're using. It's like this kind of altered sound where you would use two triads as triad pairs and create thematic developments between those triads.

That's what that sound is. Yeah. And I was, I lost it now, but someone else had a question about is, basically they were like, is bebop relevant still in 2020? 20. And I think, you know, instances like this, first of all, it's absolutely relevant. And we can talk about that maybe as our next question in general, but I would say as it pertains to this, using, you know, BBOP type lines, but with, you know, you called it, you know, that really that modern sound.

Layering in the altered scale, the diminished, you know, triad pairs, these kind of things is one of the most effective ways where you can take BBBBBBBBRhythms, BBBBBB Sensibility, BBBBBBRolutions, you know, the real spirit of bebop in the music. I mean, you know, bebop is not relevant in 2020 if you want to put on a beret sideways and be like, hey, Hepcat, let me meet you across town. But, you know, it's not about that. It's about... Are you sure?

Because I still do that sometimes. Me and Marty Daly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that could be a fun thing. But in terms of, like, how do you sound modern and how do you sound like you're rooted in bebop at the same time? These are some of the, like, little techniques and tricks that can lead to that. but you never want to get stuck in it.

You want to accumulate the vocabulary. Accumulate more of the spirit of bebop. See, I'm answering two questions at once. Bam, that's how we do it here at the podcast. Well, no, no, no. We can move to this question because I think it's relevant to using the altered scale, you know, and how to get, like, you know, between a modern sound and this bebop relevant. Like, every great modern player, I don't want to put a blanket statement on it,

but many of our favorite modern players had some kind of cursory understanding of DeBop. I mean, it's in everybody's playing. It's in your playing. It's in my playing. It's in Jason Moran's playing. It's in Robert Glasper's playing a little. Like, it's in everybody has some kind of understanding of what it is and a basic sense of how to do it if they need to. Because just like if you were a contemporary composer, you would have to understand, you know, some basic counterpoint point to get to like, you know, Steve Reich, right? Like those two things. things, you can't get to Steve Reich or Philip Glass or beyond that modern music without understanding a little bit of, you know, counterpoint and Haydn and Beethoven, you know what I

mean, like going through the masters. And it's kind of the same thing here where it's like, you know, our favorite modern players are our favorites because they've digested their favorite parts of the history of the music. And not everybody knows everything about everything. Don't get that idea. Like, I have to know Stride and I have to know Bebop and I have to know post bop and then I have to know modal and I have to know big band and no not everybody knows it not everybody's an expert on everything in fact a lot of people aren't an expert on much of anything or they're an expert on a very specific thing from from part of the history of the music and they just use that as part of their modern idea like you know peter you're playing to me has you have a nice peab

influence but it's just mixed with all these great modern lines there's definitely a lot of herbie and chick and you're playing as well but like there The B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-Haw is there. Monk is there. You know, Bud Powell is there. All those influences are there. Charlie Parker is there. It's just mixed with all the other stuff that happened after it.

Yeah. And actually, I would, you know, your initial statement, you altered it from, you know, every player to most. But in thinking about it, could we name a contemporary, a jazz musician that we all know that's recording or playing, that's kind of known, that's doing it now that does not have some foundation in Bebop. I don't think we could name somebody that doesn't. There's obviously different degrees of how much you can be aware of it in his or her playing as you're listening.

But, I mean, you know, like you mentioned Jason Moran, he might be, well, actually, no. It would be very apparent as modern of a player as he is in that Bebop. I hear it. For sure. I hear it 100%. I mean, almost, it's not, if it's not on the surface, it's some of it is certainly implied, you know, and even if it's just the spirit or the understanding of how some of the music is made, it's definitely there. It's like I said,

it's such a fundamental ingredient to what jazz has become. It would be like writing anything in the English language and never having read Shakespeare at all. Right. You know, that's just such a foundational thing that you should probably at least read Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet or somewhere, the basic, you know what I mean? So I, I, feel like that's that's kind of the analogous situation here to bebop and modern jazz yeah i see here the question was from k yore bbbb's still relevant in 2020 so your um analogy to shakespeare it's like you know is hamlet still relevant yes it's a universal story it always it always will be is shakespeare and hamlet still relevant as in let's do the plays exactly as they were done with all men playing

the women's parts and pretend like this is the 16th century or whatever it was 17th century England. No, then it's not relevant. But like, how do you take it? And you see all these very, you know, innovative Shakespeare or theater companies that update things and they've got guns instead of swords and whatever. That's how you make it relevant. You know, we're not trying to go into a time war, but we're trying to bring something to life. You don't even have to bring it to life. Great art stays alive, right?

Well, that's the thing is that like in all great art forms, there's just a, uh, moment where an artist passes a threshold to be canon, essentially, right? So, so like, you know, maybe in the mid or late 70s, the Beatles were not as relevant. And then there was at some point where we all decided like, wait, all these records that they made were so incredible that they're just going to be relevant for most music from here on out just because of the influence they had on a generation of musicians that then have, you know, whatever the Beatles sound like in their pop music and it just keeps going and going and going until, and then we look back reverendium. on it, and it's the same thing with Bach and Beethoven or Count Basie or Charlie Parker.

Bach, Beethoven, Basie and Bebop. Come on, man. Yeah, yeah. Or Picasso or whatever. Like, you cross a threshold. You're one of the greats. You're in the canon. And it's not like you have to have to have to have to learn it. Do my favorite part here, Peter, is that when you're actually like, your fork is hitting the microphone as it goes. But not the podcast, Mike. I'm pretending to that. Sorry, Matt. Just totally rude, man. Totally rude. Well, if this was the first time... We might be getting too comfortable on our live streams. I think so, man.

It's just part of life, ma'am. It's part of life. All right, well, that was a great question. Thanks, Kiori. And I got the next one. Can we do one more? We got time for one more. Let's do one more. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Asher asks, any words of advice for keeping a balance of learning tunes, building skills, and writing? Okay, so we have been talking a lot of recently. We've been answering a lot of similar questions to this, and we'll talk specifically about this, learning tunes, building skills and writing, but just the general concept of balancing and not getting overwhelmed with all the

different aspects of music and our instruments that we need to work on, knowing how much to do of each one, knowing on any particular day which aspects to work on, what order do you do them? And I think they all kind of fall under the umbrella of not being overwhelmed, even though We're talking about balance here, but I think what we don't usually get is give me some ideas on things to practice. I've been practicing and now I've run out of things to practice. We rarely, if ever, get that question, you know. So there is this blanket, a feeling of being overwhelmed. I actually think it's a little bit related to just the world is very overwhelming right now.

And so I've been thinking a lot about, like, you know, music is such a refuge for us at any time. because it's so pure, it's so humbling, it's so inspirational, it's so invigorating, and it's a way to connect, you know, to other humans and spirituality and other times, and bebop time, you know, I mean, like, it's a way to tap into something that's so positive that it's a real antidote to negativity in the world. We know that. And so I think during this time when everything can seem so overwhelming, it's okay for us to go to music and to maybe let our guard down a little bit

and let our, I hate to even say standards because you know I love getting dogmatic, even on Saturdays. But I think this is a period where we can kind of be like, you know what, it's okay if we get a little bit out of balance in our practice. It's okay if we don't hit all the scales in the way we normally need to.

Because we need the spiritual components of music even more than we normally would, I think, and just the mental sanity that music can bring. I mean, they've proven this. You know, you play music for rapsing. rats and stuff that are stressed out and they get better. And, you know, what are we if not rats running around a maze, you know? So I think that that's the first thing is just like relax and know that time that you spend at your instrument, especially during this time, is going to heal you in a number of different ways.

You're going to progress. You're not going to be Chick Korea today no matter what you do, no matter what your balance is. But you can be moving along and, you know, really, really just sitting and bathing in the beauty of music every day. and progressing at the same time. It's very possible. But you don't need to have perfect balance and exponential growth every day. And in fact, that's not even a realistic thing

during the best of times. So that's kind of the first thing I would just say. Now, learning tunes, building skills, and writing. This is something that you and I both have a lot of experience with. And what kind of has worked for me with the writing is I try to just balance that time or spend that time on that when I'm really feeling inspired to write something. Now, there were times earlier in my, you know, in my, in my lineage that I was just writing every day because I needed the discipline of writing.

And I was trying to get better as a composer. And I was trying to write more. And I was like, I don't have enough ideas. And Ray Brown said it's just like, write every day. If you want to learn how to write, write a tune every day for 30 days. See if you come up with anything good. If nothing else, you'll be in the habit of writing. So I think.

Wait, Ray Brown was doing like a 30 day challenge? Ray Brown was the kid, it was the OG on the 30 day challenge. Man. ahead of this time in so many ways. Yeah, yeah. But then I think once you're having, you know, ideas and you can kind of keep a catalog of them, like I just keep a notebook and I'll come back to different ideas and revisit them and try to turn them into tunes. But I'll generally just write whenever I have an impetus to get something out.

And I'll prioritize that over everything else because you never know when that's going to come. That might come once a month. You know, if you're lucky, it might come once a year. It comes every day if you're extremely lucky. Stevie Wonder or something. But I mean, you know, there's nothing better than creating and writing something to put out into the world. But you want to do that when you've got something to say, not just when you're having to go through the discipline of doing it. So that kind of becomes the balance for me.

The learning tunes like that you can do every day. Like you can be working on that every day. If you're not feeling particularly disciplined, maybe you only spend 10 minutes on a day. But I think that's a good thing to always be doing because building your repertoire, it's just one of those activities that helps you professionally. helps you in your ear training, helps you in your musicianship. It helps you to be a better jazz musician. That's beautiful, man. Yeah. And I would just add briefly to this. I think Peter covered it all, but just to add one more thing.

And that's a key factor in this for you might be to just think about the fact that you're a musician and that you will be for the rest of your life and that we, you know, life is short and we don't want to, we don't want to leave, you know, anything on the table, but at the same time, realize that you don't have to hit everything every day all day. You can go to where you're feeling it. And then realize that in a couple weeks, you might not be feeling that anymore. And it's time to work on some skills. And then after that, maybe it's time to learn five new tunes. And after that, it's time to write some new tunes because you just absorb five new compositions from someone else, you know? And it just keeps going around and around for, and you're, and you know, and you're

you're going to look back five years and you're going to have a stable of new tunes. You're going to have a stable of tunes you've learned and you're going to have hopefully a complete set of skills that you're constantly refining and new skills that you're constantly adding. And that's just how it goes. That never changes. What, you know, the kind of practice I do is pretty much the same as it's been since I was a teenager as far as like I'm always trying to add skills or refine the skills I have or come up with more more ways to do simple things that I already know how to do and write more tunes. I've been doing that for 25 years and I think every professional musician is always constantly doing that and circling back

and then you go through phases where you write a whole album in two months and then you go through phases where you don't write anything for a year or you go through phases where you learn every scale you could possibly know, it's always an ebb and flow and then you're, you know, that just never stop. So just accept the fact that it's never going to be as balanced as you can write it out on paper and that's fine. Yeah. And I would say that how you can judge the efficacy of your ongoing practice in terms of balance is are you making progress in at least one of these areas each day? The ebbs and flows and the ups and downs are going to come and go and as they should. That adds to your story. But what you don't want to be doing is, you know, working on different

areas and not making progress anywhere. It's okay to just make progress one day. on the technical side because sometimes like our brains are just, that's where we're at. Or it's okay on a day to just write 10 bars of your next great song or even write one thing. That's a good day. And that's a good day. And that's a great day. And don't beat yourself up. That is a really productive day.

Just consider this. Like what you want to avoid from this, because I see where your thought pattern here, I don't see this question, so I don't know the person's name. But I see how it will start to spin out of control to where all of the, a sudden you feel overwhelmed. You have these three things. Oh, my gosh. Everybody in New York knows a thousand tunes and I can't do drop two in every key. And I've, you know, all this, I haven't written a tune in a week or whatever. You know what I'm saying? No, but then you, but then all of a sudden you go, I don't, I'm not, just screw it. I'm not practicing the day. Right. Right. And then you

don't do anything. And then that's where, and then two days go by, three days, two weeks go by, two months. All of a sudden, you're in a hole, right? And you, no, buono. Yeah. Just do what makes you feel good if that's, and you're going to have days where you feel like challenging yourself and like, okay, I'm really taking on altered scales here today or whatever. We always have days like that. I just went on a run where I, as soon as I started running, I was like, ah, I feel terrible. And I was just like, all right, I could quit or I'll just do 10 minutes. I'll just run 10 minutes see where it hits me. And then by like, minute eight, I was like, I feel pretty awesome. And then I ran 25 minutes. You know what I mean? It's like, that's, that happens all the time. So just get to the

instrument, go for it. That's right. That's great stuff. All right, Instagram. Thank you guys so much for the questions. We're always having fun here. You can meet us every Saturday at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time at the Open Studio Instagram for the live. You'll hear it. Tell the good folks here about our sponsors, Adam. You're so good at it. Well, our sponsor, our primary sponsor is Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJazz.com and check out all our courses. We have a brand new course called Rhythm Section workout, which is with the Peter Martin trio, Peter Martin, Rubin Rogers on bass, Gregory Hutchison on drums. You guys cover eight awesome tunes. There's these amazing playalongs

for any instrument. And it's really one of the most, and just close your ears, earmuffs. It's one of the most, I think, the greatest working trio in modern jazz in the past couple decades. And you get to kind of hear their insights into how they accompany people, how they create arrangements on the fly, and then you get to play it with them, and it's really cool. Again, cover your ears. And everything, every brilliant thing that Peter Martin plays is transcribed, and every brilliant thing that Ruben Rogers plays is transcribed, and every seriously brilliant thing, not to put slack on you guys, but that Hutch plays is transcribed.

And so you're going to want to check that out. That's a rhythm section workout. Good stuff. Well, till tomorrow, you'll hear it.