You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Cocktail Piano Method???

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

It's another live edition of You'll Hear It where Peter and Adam take your questions - today, they respond to a question about doing a course on cocktail piano, as well as competition between jazz musicians.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Links From This EpisodeTo check out all the Open Studio piano courses Peter and Adam mention in this episode, follow this link.Thursday's Open Studio Live Events:1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)For the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Okay, let's jump down because we're being so efficient with our questions today. I love it. It's a good question. Doon, do, do, do, do, do, do. Boom, boom. How about the course? Oh, how about a course on cocktail piano? What is cocktail piano?

Well, we may not be able to do this right now, Adam, because we both are abstaining from cocktails as a word. This officially jumps us back to our health and wellness. I should have mentioned that because that's been a big part of my I've been drinking the last cup I'm going on two weeks now and you're going on two years right seven months seven months how you feel but who's counting well I'm the same no no I feel

well you know what it is it wasn't as hard as I thought to stop drinking and I'm not committing to stopping drinking forever but I did want to yeah so I don't know if this was your experience but it wasn't as hard to stop as I thought it was and I don't feel as much better as I was hoping to so it's a good sign I think Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a of your general well-being.

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so all jokes aside, cocktail piano, I guess you don't have to be drinking to do that. I think what comes to mind back at Oregon in the day, 30 years, he had a little book called How to Dress Up Naked Music. That's funny. Adam, how would you define cocktail piano? Because I want to see, maybe I'm a little bit off, but let's get sort of what this is first. I don't even know if I can do it, man. I'm just too hip.

I don't know So is cocktail piano not hip? It's not? I wouldn't say that it's hip. Interesting because I was going to, okay. Maybe it is hip. I don't know. I mean, can it be hip.

Yeah, I know oftentimes it's not. Do people listen to piano when they have cocktails anymore? Well, that's the thing. I'm like, is there a connotation with cocktail piano that it's so, it has to be in the background so you can't do anything jarring. Is that it? I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I mean, I know I've played cocktail parties before, but I'm just playing what I play.

Did you get called back to give? played again. I think so. Oh, then you're good at it. That you're an expert, see? I don't know. I don't know. I would think you would just want to work on your solo piano style that you, like who, Micah, who are you listening to that's a cocktail pianist that you want to, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, okay, think about this. Because wouldn't you be better just listening to Bill Evans play solo piano and then copying that? Right. I mean, like, is Bill Evans the greatest cocktail pianist? Is he like a transcendental cocktail pianist?

actually or even Keith Jarrett. I remember my dad saying something about that. He's like, wow, Keith Jarrett kind of, he's like the greatest, I think he was the oldest, he's the greatest hotel trio pianist ever. Please. It's like so advanced. I want to talk about Keith Jarrett later.

Yeah, I do too. Big shout out to Keith and well wishes. But okay, so Cocktail Piano, if we're thinking about playing something that if some people are having a drink and they'll be like, oh, I recognize it too. Maybe we could flip it around. Let's turn this upside down.

and say, okay, you're playing in the background, but what if it can become like a subconscious kind of a thing? Oh, here, he's got a follow-up thing, basically arranging on the spot is what you're talking about. See, look, it shows how little we know what the hell we're talking about. That's what cocktail piano is. Yeah. Well, I can get that.

I used to do a gig in New Orleans years ago, subbing for the great Mike Palera, wonderful New Orleans pianist, and it was at a really nice hotel, the Windsor Court. And you would just come in and, like he described it. He's just like, you have to wear tucks, but just practice for three hours and you make whatever, 200 bucks. Yeah.

Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. No, that was it. But I, But you do, like, you're making up arrangements as you go. But I think there is that element, I think, where you can kind of play something that people hear, but it's not like they got to put all their attention on it, but it's something pleasant in the background. And perhaps if they do want, like, maybe you're drinking by yourself and you don't want to talk to anyone.

You want to focus in all the music. So there should be enough depth and beauty in what you're doing to be of interest to that individual as well. So, Micah, if you are an open studio subscriber, like if you're a piano access pass or an all access pass member, remember, first of all, Peter's jazz piano method goes through different standards in a way that is basically like talking exactly what you're talking about, arranging on the spot. I also have a course called lead sheet breakdown, which deals with this where you just take that information that you get on a lead sheet and what can I do with that, you know, using different inversions and different three zone concepts.

They could be applied as like a spontaneous arrangement. Yeah, you can either do it ahead of time or you can get good at it so that you you could do it on the spot. Yeah, and I always think about two, it's like, it's like we always think about, oh, we have certain ways to do things, and so then it's not spontaneous. Well, you might have a way of doing something on one tune, but then you can apply that concept or even part of that concept to another tune. And then it becomes new.

You know, there's nothing that's saying that you have to come up with a totally brand new concept every time you play every single tune. We can, we can recycle ideas in new and interesting ways. The idea is that it sounds fresh and interesting. So when we joke that Keith Jared is the greatest cocktail pianist ever, the greatest hotel pianist, it's because it's like he's doing things that when you look at him, you're like, wow, okay, I could have done that. But he's just doing it so much better and he's making it sound like it's the first time he's ever done it. And he's making it sound so fresh and inventive that it pulls your ear and into a way.

So maybe that should be kind of the gold standard of what a cocktail tree piano trio is. Noriko has a great question right underneath Micah's question there. Yeah, Micah, hit us up with a follow-up if we hit it. Hit us up with a cocktail. Yeah, I don't know. But also check out the jazz piano method or lead sheet breakdown, because we kind of deal with these on-the-spot arranging techniques. Yeah.

But just under Micah, Niko, Niroiko, who, what's up, Noriko? She's a DGPS regular. She says competing with classmates better than transcribing Keith Jarrett. James Clear mentioned his book, Atomic Habits, which we talked about on here. Yeah. And I know... Big fans, big fans. That you may not improve your skills.

if you only play tennis with Serena Williams, what are your thoughts? So yes, well, that's true. If you're not ready to, like, go hang and play on a gig with Christian McBride, you're probably not going to learn too much, although actually you might learn some pretty important lessons. Right.

But that doesn't mean that you can't, like, even though you're not going to play tennis with Serena Williams, that doesn't mean that you can't learn what a great forehand should look like from watching Serena Williams and breaking down her movements. And it's the same thing with transcribing Keith Jarrett. you can even at any level get some nugget of information out of transcribing Keith Jared or listening to Keith Jarrett, which is transcribing the way we talk about it, even though you're not going to go play a duo concert with Keith Jarrett,

which wouldn't probably be very educational because you just... You just get wiped. You just get wiped on the floor. Right. And you wouldn't have much to say back to Keith, you know. But listening to him transcribing him, that's a whole other thing. Now you're just looking at Serena Williams forehand, her backhand, her footwork. And you're trying to emulate that.

Are you going to get 100% accurate to what she's doing? No. Are you going to be able to play like Keith Jared after transcribing a solo? No. But you are going to have a better idea of what makes a great player like Keith Keith. And so I think it's at the end. Your analogy is a little bit off in that you're not competing with Keith here. You're not competing with Serena.

You're trying to learn from them. So take what you can get. That might be, I mean, I remember once something that. we worked on a guide of practice session on YouTube that I saw Bill Evans do, but I saw Keith do it too. Like he's playing a 2-5-to-F. I forget, this might have been on like one of the standards records. But he did a 2-5-to-F, and he played, you know, the diminished scale over the 2-cord. And I was like, oh, that sounds dope.

But that was all I really remember from that transcription that I did years and years ago. enough to like give me a little bit of information and and actually not only did it give me that information that works but it kind of opened up this whole thing of like you don't have to be so rigid about what scales play over what chords and there's it's really all five and all these other little things not to mention the way he plays the fingering of it is so fricking crazy cool that you can learn from that too so i'm just saying nariko uh take what you can get from the masters yeah absolutely and i would just um maybe this is kind of echoing what you're saying, but another way to look at it too

is that if you are, yes, if you're playing, trying to play tennis with Serena Williams and Serena Williams has like her game face on it, it is playing with you like she's competing with another top ranked player, then you're

not going to get much out of it because you're never going to touch the ball. It's just going to be flying past you. And that might happen, like if you go to play with Christian McBride or Keith Jared or something and they're going to like playing like they're playing with Jack Dijunette, and stuff, a lot of stuff's going to fly by. But if Serena Williams is like here,

I'm going to lay back and just kind of help you along and stuff, which may happen, then you could get a lot out of that. Competing with classmates better than transcribing with Keith Jarrett. Now, if you're talking about playing with class, like playing with people that are at more at your level, you're going to get a lot out of that, probably more than playing with Keith Jarrett when he's at the high level.

But transcribing Keith Jarrett, that's a different animal. You probably don't want to transcribe. your classmates, but to your point to RICO, you actually do want to be playing with I think, you know, you're hitting like on all cylinders, when you're playing a little bit with people who are right at the same level you are,

a little bit with people who are just below you so that you're the best player in the band sometimes. And then sometimes you want to be the worst player in this situation. It doesn't mean that you're playing with Keith Jared, but you're playing with people that are just a little bit better than you. They're giving, they're learning, just as you are hopefully giving to people that are a little bit worse.

It's like, what do they say if you want to learn something, teach it, you know, that's, you know, you being the best player in a band could be a good situation because you can learn like, oh, when I'm playing with people that are way better than me, that's what I need from them. Here's what I can give them. So. Well, it's almost the thing. Like, I wonder if you remember when, well, you're probably too young to remember this, Adam. But Michael Jordan basketball back in the 90s, early 2000s. But for a short period, like he left basketball, like when he was literally at the top of his game. Like he had just won a championship, his third championship. I do remember. Yeah. Right. With the Bulls. And he went and started to play. baseball in the majors well the minors actually like I wonder and I'm just projecting and just making stuff up right now

but I wonder if like he almost I mean not that he didn't have people he could compete with but like if he didn't want he's so competitive he almost like had that yearning to do like what you're saying somebody that's a little better than you playing with like he couldn't really do that in basketball there was nobody better than him there was nobody better than him I mean there was people that could compete it even like

he had to work hard at you watched that documentary too I did yeah I haven't seen the whole thing I forgot about this, but when he was playing in the White Sox minor league program is when the baseball strike happened. And they were like, had that baseball strike not happened, he would have made it to the majors. Of course he would have. Yeah. But he wasn't going to, I mean, like he was having, like maybe he was wanted to experience what it was like to be around people that were better than him athletically in that sport, at least, where he had to really rise up. Anyway, who knows.

Who knows? We're just making stuff up at this point. Dude, it's four o'clock here in Central. Should we take one more? Well, yeah, well, we can. Yeah. I think, well, someone says, what do you mean exactly? Where is it?

Hold on, hold on. Kevin, can you describe exactly what you mean when you say transcribe a solo? It's a great question, and there's actually a really good discussion here going on about it. Because we say transcribe, we mean that in actually a variety of ways, Kevin. Like, it could mean to write out every note, but we generally don't mean it that way. No, we don't. Strictly. And nobody got time for that.

Nobody got time for that. But you can get a lot out of just listening to whatever it is you're trying to learn, a tune. a solo, uh, comping, whatever it is, and figuring out by ear what it is there playing.

This is one of the most valuable things any musician can do. So, yeah. And I think that, you know, we do say transcribe and perhaps we should use more learned.

You know, learn, internalize. Right. Learn a solo. Make it a part of your experience. It's, it's very much like,

um, I think, um, cooking. So you might learn a recipe, um, But like you can either go through the exact steps or you could watch somebody do it and write down what they're doing or you could watch and like first understand the concept of what the dish is. Like what is the smell of the dish?

Like how does it taste? What is the process? And then you go through and break it down. But if you only look at it from the standpoint, I'm going to read the recipe and I'm just going to execute exactly on the recipe. That's the equivalent of not even transcribing a soul. That's like taking a written transcription that somebody else has done. never listening to the solo and just doing it by writing

or maybe listen to it a little bit but mostly doing it by writing that's like the equivalent of learning, trying a recipe but never tasting it when the person who created it made the thing, yeah. And so obviously next level you create your own recipe as you go

and improvise and all that kind of stuff we can compare to this. But learning, being able to sing a solo, I still think being able to sing a solo that you learn, never seeing it, never having any. kind of physical, you know, visual connection with that solo, only how it sounds, how it sings, not even at your instrument, just unless you're a vocalist. Being able to sing it is the most

valuable thing that you can do to learn styles and inflections and vibe and concepts in the architecture and all the structural elements that you could possibly known and unknown bring to your playing and apply them in an interesting way. Besides just, I read this lick and this is how I play it. Yeah, I think I think you don't. Again, yeah, you don't necessarily have to write it down. In some situations, if it's like, if it's your first real full transcription of a solo and you know it by heart, you can sing it, you can play it, you are starting to understand some of the valuable information. I think there can be value in writing it out, first of all, because it might help with some writing

chops with just understanding how to notate things and how that works. But then also then you can do a little bit of theoretical analysis. Wait, why are they playing this over a C minor seven, when that's obviously a 13 chord or what is that. You know, writing it out can help with sort of reflecting on it a little bit. Noriko commented here, put this up on screen. This is so important, I think. Because Noreko asked a question about Keith Jared in transcribing. She said, thanks, guys.

Most important thing for me is to maintain enthusiasm, I think. And I think that, Noriko is spot on, the nail on the head. Remember, there's also a lot of talk here about marathons, Peter. So, like, remember, this is a village. This is a marathon. This is not a sprint. That's right. And it's not even a marathon because there really is no finish line.

This is just our daily work, our daily existence, our daily experience. We want to play music. We want to keep memories of good music going. And we want to stay inspired and have fun. Listen, nobody plays music because it's like, I want to be a serious person. Well, some people do. But I don't want to hear music. You'll apply the robot voice to any situation.

I even get me started on the road. get home, you're like, hello, honey, I am home now. My name is Adam. Yeah, I am sometimes. That's that that that's absolutely right. And Noriko, thanks for just expressing what you're feeling because this is something that we all, this is what it's about. I mean, like, we're talking about the nuts and the bowls and all this, but like, you know, sharp 13 and all that. Forget all that. I mean, think about that at times, but this idea of like, how do we maintain enthusiasm? The good news is that this. This. The good news is that this. This. You know, This is such a cool thing that we're nerding out on, that joins all of us, that connects us, you know, this jazz music that just great music, just great music that's that, I mean, how lucky are we to be part of something that has a tradition. But more than that, it's like a living, breathing language, right? So like we can come in here and talk the same language. We can play things or whatever. That's like as long as we keep tapping into that, yes, things are going to be difficult things.

You know, gigs will come and go and be like, man, I can't quite get this. But that enthusiasm, as long as we stay connected through the music and through what that vibe is, that'll be like rejuvenating. So we'll walk away for something frustrated. But we always come back because we're like, dang, Christian McBride, Sean. And, you know, like, I'm thinking about Adam, man. It's like, this is what we're connected. For sure. Me and Adam hate each other, actually.

But we love music. So we've become friends through the bridge of music, right? And you know what? One thing, one more thing I just want to add. Wait, I was kidding, man. Then you're like, that's right. That's super awkward. I love you, man.

love that. One thing I want to add to this discussion about like, I see here with like, there's some great comments here on the chat about the daily grind and life express through art form that is music and just taking it day by day. One other thing that I think is some wisdom that maybe it takes to experience this, but a lot of people on here I know are not kids. There are some kids on here for sure. But one thing to remember with this, it is a lifelong pursuit. And there are going to be changes in how you, you, you, how enthusiastic you are. So don't beat yourself up if you're not super enthusiastic this week or this month or even

this year. Like, it is a lifelong thing. It does change. There's going to be some times, right, where we're just super gung-ho. We're super into it. We can't think about anything else. All we want to do is get better at jazz piano, right? Yeah.

This is how people, this is how Jim, gyms survive. Right. Because people are like, I just want to work out and be in the best shape as possible. and then like, you know, November comes and they're like, well, I do want to eat a lot and not move and watch football. And that's okay too. Like that's the thing is you got to be, you got to find some acceptance for all of this. So even in the times where you don't feel like working, except that you're still a musician and that's part of it. And that's going to change, right?

There were times where you couldn't stop practicing and that changed. There are going to be times where you're going to feel like not motivated. And that's okay. Try to get to your instrument. And even if you don't, try to get it to it tomorrow. You know, that's really all we can. do is to accept where we are and accept that, you know, our identity is not super wrapped up into music, but it is part of what we want in our daily experience. That's all. Absolutely.

Great stuff. And I'll just leave it at what Kevin's saying. I love this. Listen to you guys while I'm taking your hard-ass courses keeps my enthusiasm. So that, like, that's, uh, thanks much. Thank you, Kevin. Like that kind of enthusiasm, I think that we all look for that from different, I mean, I know I'm constantly challenged by just the piano. Forget about just jazz music. Just that dang instrument. And like I get as frustrated as everybody, believe me. But every day I wake up, I'm like, wow.

Like that's, that makes, that gives me energy. That gives me enthusiasm. So I think that you guys are all really drawing on the right things, those challenges. Like once you can combine a challenge with some beauty and some, you know, enthusiasm, then you're on to something. Then you're on to something that's like rejuvenating and has the possibility through it, and especially through a community when you connect with others. So very grateful for everybody.

Yeah, yeah. I think we did it, man. We made it through another one. Should we do the... How do we do this? We got so much stuff happening. We're like, you know... Should we do the outro kind of thing here?

Whatever you want to do. Yeah, I think we should do that. So thank you guys for being here. Yeah, smash the like button if you get a chance. Put up that... Put up that... Cordy one more time. Oh, Cordy.

I forgot about Cordy, man. I got so many dang buttons here. Cordy! accordion. My great grandmother was an amazing accordion player. Did I ever tell you that? You know, I have been known to squeeze a box. Hey, is that legal in this county? Yeah, I guess it is.

All right. Well, until next time, you'll hear it.