You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Deep Listening - #168

Episode Date: July 31, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam discuss some techniques you can use to be able to hear the subtle elements in music. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Matt Mennis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Weekday advice, jazz-oriented coming at you. I don't think you got those words in the right order. Well, I always say daily jazz advice, but to be honest, we are weekday now. Well, yeah, but, you know, it's technically, I guess technically the weekends are a day as well. Right. Right. I'm, you know, I'm always worried about the jazz police, man. Yo, man, this is free. Daily five days a week. That's the good we're going to get. Yeah. How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. It's, you know, it's early.

still drinking my ice coffee. That's right. Trying to wake up. That's right. All good. So what are we talking about today? So today we're talking about a question from a listener sent by a listener, Dan Kramer.

Dan asks. What's up, Dan? Dan, friend of the show and friend of Open Studio. That's right for a while now. Dan has a question about deep listening. He says, I'm very good at hearing melodies, but horrible at hearing chords and chord movements. How do you do the deep listening that you need? That's a good question.

Well, first of all, Dan, I would have to say that you fit in with about 99. 9% of the human population in that being harder because it's easier to hear melodies. That's just the way it is. Just the way it is. That's why we put the melodies, you know, on top of the sound because they're easy to hear and people like them. Right. And that I think is really what the actual foundation of this is, is that they're on top. Right. Because if you, when you put melodies in the middle, I think in terms of deep listening, we would all find it a lot more difficult to hear them there. So it's not just a matter of, you know, root movement, harmony, and melody in the traditional kind of three zones. When they are laid out like that, we can, anyone can hear

the melody easier, and it's going to be more of a challenge. Definitely going into some more deep listening to be able to hear, you know, that inner movement. But it's the same thing, actually, when the melodies are submerged in terms of, you know, fugues and, you know, bass, melodic movement, when there's a lot of things happening on top, our ears just sort of gravitate just like our eyes do to what's on top. That's right. That's a good point. And you know, you mentioned something just now that I think might be the first step to getting away from on top and that's to go to the other extreme, to go to the bottom. Because I think that's kind of the second easiest thing to hear is the base movement. Yes. You know, and you can get a lot of information from

what the base is doing. It's not always going to be the root of the cord. Right. You know, but you're going to at least have an idea of what the cord is based on. It's either going to be the root or the third the fifth most likely. Right, and it's always the foundation, even if it isn't the actual root. That's right. That's what everything else is built on. Yeah. And I think that, you know, one of the most useful things, we talk a lot here about a real good classical foundation for technique for the piano and for other instruments as well and how that can enhance our jazz playing. Although I wouldn't say it's a necessary thing, but it's certainly something that enhances what we can do. For sure. But I think that a really a solid foundation, no pun intended, in

traditional classical harmonic movements, which would move up from the bass movement and learning what those thirds and fifths and sevenths and figured bass, what that sounds like four-part harmonic voice writing. That can really help just our general ears in a way to set us up to be able to hear this more advanced jazz stuff. That's right. So, you know, the first, you know, really the building block for this is being able to hear intervals. Being able to hear a second, a third, a fourth, a fifth, a sixth, the seventh. Confidently being able to hear that. That, if you can hear those, Dan, you are on your way. Now, you probably can hear those in the melody,

but being able to hear those in the bass, in the inner movements, you know, that, I think, is the foundation, pun, totally intended. Yeah. For getting these sort of deep listening concepts together. Start with the bass, see if you can pick out. You know, I often, when I'm listening to something on the radio or in a film or I want to try to pick it out, you know, I don't have perfect pitch, but I have good relative pitch.

I know my intervals. And so I'll just pick a key. I'll just say, okay, this is in F. And then whatever I hear the tonic as, I can go off that with the bass movement. I like that. And I mean, too, what I'll do is I'll, I'm kind of, I think, the same way as far as my years, you know, some relative pitch, just a slight. I don't have perfect pitch for sure, but the more, the more sort of natural state I get into hearing something, my instinct usually, like I'll relate it to either the piano or to singing. You know, I can kind of hear it based upon.

that which is really not the traditional perfect pitch but it's ways of learning what keys are without having to be at a piano yeah but if you go to check yourself with that that's a way that you can learn it actually you can actually get close with your own vocal range knowing that you know oh I got B on the top of my vocal range where I can really sing in my chest voice that actually helps a lot yeah and I remember my dad I always thought growing up I was always like man he has perfect pitch so I was wanted to have that because he could hear like a chord and just sit down a play or he'd be like doesn't your son have perfect pitch too yeah well he has the real kind

Like he actually kind of, I mean, now he's trying to fill in the relative stuff, you know. Are you bitter that you skip the generation? A little, no, no, no, what I was going to say, my dad actually doesn't. He has the same. He just sort of developed it. He learned and memorized what it sounded like because sometimes he'll be a little off. And he told me, he's like, I don't have perfect pits. I was like, but you can always say, he's like, I can't always.

And I was like, it seems like, but what he would, he would just always learn. He learned a lot about orchestration and different instruments. And he was a conductor and stuff. So he knew a lot of different instruments. So the same way we might now kind of know piano what it sounds like. He knew strings. He knew woodwinds. So no matter what the instrumentation was, he could usually hear what the pitch was.

Shout out to Bill Martin. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, so if you can get into that, that could be very helpful for kind of that deep listening to knowing where the ranges are. Other than that, you know, I mean, we always say listen, but I think part of this is, I mean, I don't know about you. I'm sure this is the case for you, but I just know how voicing sounds now. I can tell what voicing the pianist is using, mostly, by just hearing it as a whole. I can't, I'm not like picking out individual notes.

I'm not being like E, B, flat, D, A, C, you know, but I can hear that shape. I know what that sounds like. Well, I think that that really speaks to just a long, it's not even a long period of time in terms of calendar time, but just a lot of exposure and time with, you know, deep listening and then applying it to the instrument and going back and forth that you've had. you know, where it starts to become second nature. And I think that if we're open to it, anyone can have that by not just listening, but actual deep listening, stopping and going and checking maybe at the piano.

That could help. But the thing about it is, it's like somebody that's just like, oh, I can't, you know, I can't get anywhere without GPS or without a map. I have a horrible sense of direction, whatever. But that same person that thinks that, you know, if you go on the same route enough, it will become second nature to you. You'll start to get a sense of the rivers over here or north. There'll be some kind of guideposts, some kind of pattern, and that's what we're looking for in music. It's all about patterns. So when you talk about intervals, that's really, you know, building up different patterns, and then harmony is a combination of those patterns.

And, you know, anyone can hear one note. We can start there. And then you can hear another note. And then you can hear one interval, you know, an octave. And then you can hear a fifth. And, you know, your ears, I never believe this thing. It's like, I have terrible ears. I never be able to hear that.

It may take you a little longer to build it up. but it's all building blocks. Yeah, no one can really walk in except for just sort of the occasional savant that comes in, it can just, you know, you hear about these kids that you play a chord and they're like, B, C, C, sharp, you know, whatever. Are you seen this kid on YouTube

whose dad plays the chords, these thick chords? And he just literally from the bottom up, it's kind of incredible. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I think that we think, oh, if we don't have that, then we can never get to that. Yeah, it's not true.

Yeah, we can always be moving towards that, you know. Yeah, I think the key, Dan, is just to really take note, you know, when you're at the instrument, when you're listening, You know, especially transcribing helps for this because you're like, wait, what is that sound? Oh, man, it forces you into these exact skills. This is why, you know, the more transcribing you can do, the better you're going to get at this, for sure.

And I mean, in terms of the deep listening, too, I mean, listen to everything, like anything that you like. But when you want to sort of develop these ear training skills, listen to things that are slower and simpler. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's how, that's really the essence of building up. And the great thing about this music is such a rich, recorded lineage of it already. that just because you're listening to something simplistic doesn't mean it's not of the highest quality and something that you can be very passionate about listening to that quality. Yeah, absolutely.

That's what's so great about jazz and why we love it so much. Well, that's one of the seven reasons. One of the seven. But, yeah, you know, again, there's really no quick fix or easy answer to this. This just takes experience and it takes putting in the reps, you know, listening, transcribing. Sets and reps. But you can do little things like picking out the bass, trying to pick out chords as a whole, sitting down at the piano, you know, playing voicings that are pretty common. You know, like I'm thinking of fourth voicings or whatever.

And understanding like that's what that shape sounds like. Right. And then things that you can play, make sure you go back and you can actually really hear them. Like be able to pick out and sing each of those intervals in a simple voicing. Because a lot of people like, oh, I know that already. Well, like, do you know it? Just because you can play, it doesn't mean that you can really hear it, you know. And there's so much stuff

In terms of building up You have to be humble In order to go back I mean I'm When I do ear training I still work on ear training It's usually at a very basic level It's very rarely

Like atonal harmony or anything like that I probably should do that But I love to go back Because I want to attune my ears In a certain way So I'm going back Bach corral That blue book

I got one here I got one at home And that's never far From the piano for me Because I go in and I sing that tenor part Or I'll sing that alto part And you know It never gets old and it's always keeping my ears in tune.

So you're playing the piano for the bass and the soprano and the alto. Exactly. And you're singing the tenor part. Exactly. That's great. It's heavenly. The tone's coming out of my mouth. Maybe tomorrow's episode will record a little excerpt.

That'd be nice. Well, Dan, we hope this helps. That's a great question. I mean, it's something that's like a lifelong pursuit, I think, is the keep listening. You know, it's something that does nothing but add, you know, benefit to your playing into your musicianship. Do we, a question though, Peter, for you. Do we have any new ratings or reviews? I would have no, how would I possibly do that?

I know you don't really care about that kind of stuff. Oh, look, something's popping up on my screen here. We have been getting some glowing reviews lately, actually. Actually, I'm getting a little scared now. I mean, I don't even want to ask. Well, you know what? How about give, we would be open to like a seven-star review or as many as you can. Open to, we've been demanding it for months.

I know. Look, I'm going to change it up. Give me a chance here, see. it still has to be seven five to seven stars okay but you could put i don't want to say a criticism in there but but maybe a little tweak you think like i'm okay with that that could be in the review part i still want the high ratings we're going to throw out any anything below five stars we know that right no no we can't actually we don't have the ability to do that wait you're asking for critiques of our podcast you know what i want i want honesty from our listeners

i feel like they've been honest man really okay well then it's a lot of love out there for us i'm good with that. Believe me, when people don't like it, we hear it. That's true. We'll hear it. We'll hear it. Okay, so here was, this is from basest instincts from about what, on the 20th of July. So what is that?

Six days ago. Five-star review. The title of this review is seven stars to heaven. Insert pun grown here. Okay, okay. All terrible jokes aside, this podcast really is always a refreshing breath, fresh air into my day. Somehow they always managed to answer questions. I didn't even know I wanted answered.

And the compact time frame makes it great for binge listening if I happen to miss a day or two. You say refreshing breath of fresh air? Yeah. That's a sentence. That's very fresh. A fresh maker. I frequently find myself relistening the episodes so I can take notes on that one album they mentioned or that one practice tip I want to experiment with. And it's useful for everyone from the casual jazz fans of the professional.

And that's from based instincts in the U.S. So thank you so much for that review and that five-star rating. And actually, you know, I find myself, I don't know if you do that. I do that with some of the podcasts I listen to. I take notes. I actually will, if it's really good, I'll pull over from the road. So we encourage people to do that, to pull over. Yeah, don't do it while you're driving.

No, no, no. But yeah, that was cool. Awesome. And, you know, we're still running our special for you'll hear it listeners, our loyal, you'll hear at listeners. You can save 10% on Open Studio All Access Pass annual membership by entering the offer code. You'll hear at 10 in the offer code field at checkout. That's everything Open Studio makes.

That's Warren Wolf. That's Peter Sprague. Nice. That's who we got. Diane Reeves. Diane Reeves. That's Sean Jones. We got Steve Wilson coming up for our saxophone friends.

You get it all. We got Jeffrey Keeser. We got Christian McBride. We got a lot of people. So you can save 10%. Again, you'll hear at 10 in the offer code field. And yeah. And also, if you are driving, you still got to pull over,

but if you can't go online or whatever, but you want to keep up today. We've been sending out this newsletter. I don't know. Do you know about our newslet? letter? Yeah, man, I help write the news. Oh, you have? I was wondering who wrote that. So, amazing. So the newsletter goes out usually Monday or Tuesday, and it's, it basically just is, at this point, is sort of what's coming up during the week. So you can plan your week around us.

Like, if there's a really, like, Thursday's episode, interest, you, you might take the day off from work just to revel in you'll hear it, right? Not you. Just draw a nice, warm bath, get a glass of wine. That's right. A little me time, a little you'll hear it me time. Well, self-care. Self-care. And, um, so. So, but if you want to get on that newsletter and become a part of this, this is free. Just like everything else we do here at the You'll Hear podcast. It's not free from pitches, though. You get a lot of those.

But just text, you'll hear it. One word. Could you handle that if you had to? Probably not. Because last time, remember, you tested this. I never saw your name come up on here. I don't think you've completed the... It said I did.

Oh, it did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe we should check our service here. Well, try it anyway. We've got six people signed up already. Oh, dope. Yeah, so text, you'll... We'll hear it, one word to 44-222.

4-4-222. Got it. And that's weird because normally we're texting it to like a full number. So you think it's not going to work, but it will. And then you'll get a text back with some just, you know, instructions at your leisure to kind of confirm it. And then you'll be on the newsletter. We're not going to spam you or anything. You're just going to get loving emails every Monday with some you'll hear it information.

You say leisure. I say leisure. Well? Yeah. You'll hear it.