You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Feelin' the Listener Love!

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Back to basics! Adam and Peter make a list of 7 ways to get love from your listeners. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey Adam. Yes. I'm excited. About what? Man, we are going back old school today. Oh, yeah? We're going back to a list of seven. Are we going back to the old pod cave?

We aren't. We're still in the new pod front, but we're going back to our roots with a list of seven. Remember those? Barely, but let's get to it, man. All right. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you listen to the You'll Hear podcast.

Jazz. Explain. Explain today. Peter, we're going back to our roots. You can't grow up if you don't go down. That's right. I mean, you know, we get excited. about the new features, the new digs, new friends, new music and everything. But the lists

really pull us in. I mean, that's, you know, that's our bread and butter. That's our old glory as well, our bread and butter for sure. We, we definitely, we sowed our oats. We, we made our beds. What's another? We, uh, we, we, we, we made our bed. Now we got to sleep in. Now we got to sleep. No, no, no, we came up on lists of seven. That's right. Seven our favorite albums. Seven iconic solos. Why seven? Because it was lucky for us for some reason. It just works. It just works. All right. Well, this is great. Okay. So don't forget. So a couple of principles with the list of seven. Like and subscribe. No, leave, no, we're going back old school with that too. Not like and subscribe. This is an audio podcast. Leave a rating or review. Rating and review. We read every one. We just

lost track of them. And in honor of the seven list of seven, leave a seven star rating. That's right. It's an impossible thing to do. It is not impossible. But you can add your own stars to it. Do it manually. Seven stars. Don't be afraid. You love those rating and reviews. Peter will read them out. loud here as soon as he discovers where he has no idea where they are they used to just pop up on our on our messaging system and they don't but we're going to find him so please leave us a rating review because it makes us feel good about ourselves a but more importantly it spreads the love with the podcast which is still growing believe it or not I'm amazed that you know um is it is is it is I met a gentleman uh the downloads are we don't disclose our numbers because we forget

them we get confused by them but it is growing um and I met a young pianist in Chicago recently I was in intelligentsia coffee. Big shout out to them. I don't know why. It is good coffee. That's my spot. Usually when I'm in the downtown or Printers Row neighborhood there,

I was in there and somebody came up to me with headphones on, turned out to be a young pianist and said, are you Peter Martin? I'm listening to your podcast right now. You'll hear it. He had headphones on. Wow.

Yeah. Well, shout out to all of our piano friends in Chicago and everywhere, all over the world. Again, leave us a rating and review. Give us a shout out. Wherever you listen to this podcast. Ever you listen to this podcast. All right, so let's get to it.

Peter. What is number one? Well, we didn't tell them what we're talking about today. I know they probably saw the title. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Don't get ahead of yourself. Fair enough, fair enough.

Seven ways to make your listeners love your music, to make your listeners. I like that. You're getting dogmatic, which is kind of our OG origins as well. Totally. Okay, number one, and this is not in any particular order, but number one is to be authentic. That's right. If you don't love the music you're making, they're not going to love it either. That's right. So how can we be authentic, though? That's a great thing to say. Nobody wakes up and says, oh, I hope I can make some inauthentic music for my listeners today.

So, you know, honestly, being authentic and creating authentic music that you love is, I think, harder than learning how to play an instrument. Like, it's a lifelong process. It's a hugely important part of the creative process. You know, as a creative person, you have to first learn how to make a bunch of stuff, right? And then once you learn how to make a bunch of stuff, you have to learn how to choose not to use all of the stuff you make and, and, you know, trim the fat on it. Make sure that you have the best of the best of your output, right? So being authentic means that if it doesn't spark joy in you,

to borrow a phrase from Marie Kondo here. Yeah. If your music, if you're not, if there's a tune that you're just like, you just keep playing, even down to like if there's a voicing where you're like, why do I play that? I don't like the way that sounds. Don't play it anymore. Right.

You know what I mean? Like only play things, only create things that you love. The better, and listen, you're never, ever going to hit 100% on that, ever. That's not... I did one time. One time. It was only for one course, though. Yeah, well, I just heard this phrase, actually, that, you know, when you are sailing

by the stars, right? You can use the North Star, but you're, as your guide to go north, but you're never actually going to get to the star itself, right? It's just the guide to get to point in the direction. When it burst my nautical bubble there, buddy. Oh, you think you're going to sail to the North... I thought until 10 seconds ago. No, no, no, no, but you know what I mean?

like that direction that you're aiming is more important than reaching the goal. But having somewhere to go is important. So you don't feel bad if like, oh, I played something that I didn't absolutely love. That's okay. But as long as you're kind of keeping this as a big part of your creative process, it's not just about making stuff. I mean, it is about making stuff. But it's also about knowing when not to do things, when to let things go.

And really just getting to know yourself and what you love. Yeah, because I think a lot of times the inauthenticity. comes across when we want to be loved by our audiences. We want to play great stuff. So we take, and this is great segue into number two, because this is actually going to contradict number two. But it's like we take other people's phrases or ways of playing or stories and say, well, that's better than me.

Like that sounds Bethelonius Monk sounds better than me. So I'm going to play his stuff. And then you come across doing it in inauthentic, inauthentic way. So this, so we'll get right here to number two. Number two is to steal. Great musicians, good musicians borrow, great musicians steal. And to your point here, Peter, about Lonious Monk, if you really, really love what Thelonious Monk is playing, and then you play it in your own way, in a way that you love. That's the key.

That's where people miss it. If you try to play it, like you think Thelonius Monk would want to hear it. Right. Or how you would want to hear Thelonious Monk play. Or just by imitating it, like, down to every detail and thinking, I can do it almost as good. you are as good. I'm going to play the exact same thing. That's not authentic.

That's not authentic. But it is authentic. If it's truly a part of you, it's truly something you love and it comes out naturally, also a key here. Yeah. Then like it's not, you know, contrived or forced. Plus, we don't have to steal. We don't, when we say steal, there's a lot of things we can steal, right?

Yeah. It's, you can steal the vibe. You can steal an idea. You can steal a concept. Like, everybody always thinks base level with this. Like, I want to steal a exact phrase from somebody. You don't have to do that. You can, you can, there's a lot of other things.

in the realm of ideas that we can take, that we can be inspired by, that can really inform our own artistry and add to our authenticity, not take away from it. That's right. So number three, Peter, what do you got? Yes. Okay.

So this is, we're talking about ways to make your listeners love your music, right? You got to give them your music. You got to feed them your music. A lot of times, like we want to get it, we want to let the music be trapped in the lab, trapped in the studio. We've got to get it out and we have to get it out consistently.

because people aren't going to love something they don't hear. It's not enough to just occasionally do something. You've got to put a schedule to it, some kind of release schedule, you know. That doesn't mean playing every night. It doesn't mean even playing every week. It could be once a month. It could be once a year you release something. But you've got to do something because if people don't hear it, I mean, there's so many young musicians that have said to me like, how do I, how do I grow an audience?

And I really want to do this. Or they'll hit us up on YouTube or Instagram or whatever. And sometimes, like, I can't answer all of them because we have a flood of them. As you know, you're personally and with Open Studio. but I do try to look at those. And sometimes it's funny because I'll look at, you know, especially a younger musician complaining that, you know, how do you kind of cut through the noise?

And then I'll click on their link to their page, their YouTube. And they got like nothing on there. Or they got one thing they posted a year ago. And it's like, well, how are you going to build up an audience if you're not giving them something to be an audience for? Always be working on something. Just have something to work on, something that you're going to have public facing,

whether that's a concert, an album, a project, something that you're doing. You know, I mean, there's going to be time for reflection and time for for rebuilding you know built into that baked into that but always have some kind of idea of what's next because you just need to keep moving forward like you just keep like like having that forward propulsion even if it's not that great it's better than nothing like it just keep going it's like people don't want to face who they are that's why they don't play that's why they don't release that because they're like

oh i got to get to a certain point you have to accept where you are now then let people you know judge you negatively and push you, push you into a dark place. Back to the number one of be authentic and that editing process, right? You don't, you have to have reps at that. You have to have sets and reps that editing process.

And that doesn't happen if you don't do anything. Right. Right. That's why I always say ABC. Always be creating. That's right. Okay, so number four is don't be afraid of the niche. Listen, you can't please everybody.

You can't, right? I'm a people please. I know you are, but you can't, you can't expect that everyone under the sun is going to like your music. So don't worry about the people that don't like your music. Just find more of the people that do like your music because there's probably a good chance. There's a good chunk of people out there that like what you're going to do. Realize who those people are. Get your music in front of their ears. And serve them. Exactly. Feed them the

music. I mean, it's better to have a hundred diehard fans than a thousand just casual like, oh, I like this. Oh, I follow him. I mean, like in this world of social media, yes, it's such great opportunities for us to get our music out to places to acquire listeners. But it's also like it's a very dark place in terms of just casual listening and not really. What we're talking about, you know, ways to make your listeners love your music. We're talking about fans. Fans of your music. Absolutely.

And like, don't be afraid. Like, a niche is great. Like, that's actually a good thing. Like, we're not trying to get everybody in the world. I mean, if that's going to happen, that's going to happen. You're not Michael Jackson. I hate to tell you that. Yeah.

If you're playing like bebop and you're trying to get your music. in front of like, you know, on like the greatest poker Spotify playlist. It's not probably a good use of your efforts and your energies, right? Like find your niche, figure out what it is. If it's, hey, listen, if you can learn how to broaden that niche, like, and not, you know, and still be authentic like we were talking about, that is like the ultimate, right? But if not, don't be afraid to lean into that niche. Exactly.

And look, we're very intentional about how we titled this podcast. And I think, you know, what any individual. musical musicians' goals are sort of professionally and in acquiring an audience and feeding their music, that's up to you. But we're talking about ways to make your listeners love your music. We're not talking about ways to get more listeners. That's a separate kind of endeavor. So when we concentrate all kind of one thing at a time and how many listeners, like I said,

that could be 10, that could be 100, that could be 1,000. But whatever you have, be grateful, first of all. Be grateful that you got anybody in this noisy, you know, distraction riddled world that we live in that you got anybody paying attention to you have an attitude of gratitude attitude gratitude there's a gratitude is just attitude with a good attitude to it on that note we'll be right back and we're back all right Peter number five that was a nice little promo there I like that by the way yeah that's cool number five what do you got number five oh concentrate on the story oh what say it again you've you've got to give your listeners a story in order for them to love the music and you might

say, well, shouldn't the music stand on its own? Yes, it should and it will. But if you connect it with a story, that's going to bring them to the music. 100%. And plus, great music is a story into itself, but you can't always, you know, and this depends on like what type of music you are making. If you're a singer-songwriter, you know, being able to pull your story or a story into your music is in some ways easier or at least more direct than if you're a, you know, bebop pianist or whatever. and you don't have words to deal with. But regardless, like, you have to give people a reason to understand what it is you're doing besides just your perceived brilliance of yourself as a musician.

I mean, it can do nothing but help to have some kind of personal story, you know, some kind of narrative, you know, like what is it, Bob Dylan famously? I mean, he named himself Bob Dylan. Yeah. But then, like, started a, you know, basically lore that he moved to join the circus or something. I forget what it was. But it's something like he created a backstory. Yeah, backstory.

And that's like the most extreme version, but I mean, it worked for Dylan. Yeah. Ever heard of him? Never heard of him? But that kind of lore, though, I mean, and a lot of stories of our music. I'm a sucker for it. Totally, man. Like, you know, there's so much romanticism around people like monk or Miles and the stories are part of the music.

You know, like you hear these stories about these people and you're like, wow, what a, what an interesting story of a person. And it fits with the music so well it helps to build that relationship. That's really what it is, man. It helps to build a relationship. the artist to the music. So help your audience build a relationship to you. Like, what is your story?

Help them help you. Yeah. Help them help you. Yeah. And I mean, that's also why. Had me at hello. That's, I was seen if you made that reference. But it's also like, like I think about, you know, Christian McBride, front of the pod,

front of the open studio, of course. He's so good. Like, he has an audience and listeners that love his music because he's such a great player, right? but he still has this uncanny ability to weave stories into the live performances, which makes it so compelling. And so to those of you that are saying, like, well, my music, I'm above that. I don't want to do cheesy entertainment.

I don't want to talk and tell stories. Look, don't worry about doing it like Christian McBrack. You're not going to be able to do it that good or in that way. But also, you might want to reflect on like, unless you think you're such a great player, you know, better than Dizzy Gillespie. he used to like to tell stories. You know what I mean? So it's like don't think,

don't get an attitude of non-gratitude and think that you're above, you know, telling a good story because this is entertainment and it just makes it fun and interesting. When I go to hear a band, I don't care how good the music is. If they aren't talking or telling some interesting story.

And look, of course, that can be done through the music and that should be. But the story of the band and how the people interact, you know, that's just fun. It's interesting. That's right.

So number six, Peter, is... Don't be busy. A.F. Busy. What is A.F? As fudge. Don't be.

So what does that mean? Fudge is busy when you're doing. Don't be busy. So less is more, basically. You don't feel like you have to give the whole kitchen sink at every moment of the record at every performance. Yeah. And we put this one in there, I think, because, you know, this is sort of the simplest of the actual, like, ways to play, especially as an improviser. Yeah.

If you're, you know, getting up to perform a Shostakovich piano concert, which I saw recently, a big shout out to the Boston Pops and a great performance of that. But like, you know, how busy you play and when you take your breaths and stuff is not there's not a lot of room for making those decisions because that's kind of been made by the music. So you need to fit in with that. Although I think those decisions were probably made really good for some of these great classical compositions. But this is like probably the number one thing when I hear really good players sometimes, you know, not giving their music, their ideas, their story. You know, through the music and otherwise a chance to breathe. I think sometimes even on this podcast when we're speaking, I think about that and like, you know, pauses and breasts and stuff, how it can make the same information, the same sentences, the same sentiments, the same ideas, sparkle and really be lovely to listen to even more so once you get that kind of cadence and pacing correct. Yeah, this is all about, you know, ways to make your listeners love your music. Give them a little space to love it.

Like let them absorb what you're doing. Because if you're doing all these other things and you're playing great, you still have to give them the time during the story, during the performance, during the solo, like at all the different levels to love your music. Sometimes it's like too much of a good thing. Like, you know, you go to a restaurant, a great, our friend down here, Rob, you know, how many courses is the tasting menu?

Six or seven? Six or seven. I bet they're not like just throwing them right after. Do you have a little breathing route in between each course? Arapeteefs, you have. If you guys could look at the pretentious look on Adam. space restaurant. It's all the very precious Ozark cuisine. It's delicious. But I mean, that's part of the experience. And look, you said Ozark cuisine. It's a story behind it. He could just put

some great food. The whole, that whole restaurant. This is actually, this is a restaurant called Bull Rush. It's our neighbor. It's an amazing. It's really our neighbor now. It's really our neighbor. It's an amazing restaurant here in St. Louis. What time did they open today? It's five. But it's all Ozark cuisine, which you look like maybe laughing. Ozark cuisine, whatever. So like this chef, Rob Connolly talk about a storyteller with the food. Like he researched all of these old, like cookbooks and newspaper recipes and and really researched for years and years the cuisine of the Ozarks so he's a forager so he's going out and getting all the stuff and when you do the tasting menu there he is telling you a story not just with the food but of the food of the history of the

food you are wrapped up in the history of the region of the cuisine of the people that are you know we're from here it's incredible and with the words and with the menu it's not just a story only through the food you'd have to be like a genius of food to understand it just from, like, and have a kind of palate and experience and worldliness that most of us don't have. You probably do. But that's a great analogy because he did all that research

so that he could make the food great, you know, which he did. I mean, he's a James Beard winner. You know, he's the real deal. But he shared that story. He didn't just say, okay, so it's the equivalent for us is like,

okay, I'm going to study everything from Jellyroll Morton and Louis Armstrong to Brad Meldow and Emmett Cohen and everything in between. and like I know all this stuff. I understand advanced harm. You know, I know all this stuff. So that's good enough.

I'm just going to play them. People need to love what I do. It's like, no, you got to talk about it. You got to weave that somehow into a narrative that makes sense. At the end of the day,

with Bull Rush, there's all these things. You know, they're saving seeds. They have a historian on staff at a restaurant, what? But like, at the end of the day,

the food is killing. Exactly. Without the story. You got to deliver it. Exactly. And so I think here with your less is more with number six, don't be busy AF.

what you're saying is just make it sound good make it sound good that's really all that is okay which that leads us to number seven and this is kind of we used to do this remember this is kind of if all else fails if all else fails

pander to your audience listen if you gotta show a little egg you gotta show a little leg you know what I mean you gotta play you gotta play a curtain you know top 40 hit yeah little covers play some standards you gotta do you gotta do

yeah I mean if you're Warren wolf put on a tight shirt do whatever it takes you know if all else fails too Peter. Just play the right note. Just play the right notes. That's right. You know, we joke. Kind of. But I mean, you know, do what you got to do because, look, music is to be enjoyed and it's to be savored and it's to be listened to. So once you do start to connect with your listeners and identify your listeners, those hundred. Your dear listeners. Yeah, your dear listeners. And look, the first hundred that to some of you, that sounds like a whole lot to some of you that sounds insignificant. But regardless, you're going to hit 100 die hard fans at some point. And I think you with your band the 442s is a great example is you have more than a hundred but you've got that probably that first hundred that are core that you guys learned how to get people to love your music not by changing or by pandering even really but by crafting a story and a sound and a lot of these things that

consistent you know not being afraid of what that niche was for not being like we have to cram it into jazz or classical or folk i mean if we're going back to personal philosophy you know i'm not afraid of a niche, man. That's right. I live in the niches. But then you really, you know, coddled in a great way those 100 fans and then built it from there and said, okay, we're going to go find some more of these people by being ourselves, being great, but also by telling your story.

I feel like we're talking about the podcast too, buddy. Exactly. It's all the same thing. Well, thanks everybody who stuck it around. Hey, you know, this is our first list of seven a while. Let's not forget a key tenant of this, which we often forget. Wait, check it out. That was seven.

Seven stars. Seven stars. No, no. We need to do a wrap up here. So number one was be authentic. Oh, the rap. Number two, steal. Yes.

Number three, don't forget to feed them your music. Consistency is king. Number four, don't be afraid of the niche. Number five, have a story. Give them your story. Incorporate that with your music. Is it niche or niche? It's both.

Number six, don't be busy AF. Less is more. Number seven, if all else fails, pandering. I like it. Good job, Adam. Good job, Peter. Until next time, you'll hear it.