You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Finding Your Flow

Episode Date: August 29, 2022

Peter and Adam talk about how to create a flow state for your creativity. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Peter. Hey, what's up? I want to get into a flow. Flow state? Breathing in. I know that I'm breathing in. I'm one with the flow. I choose defiant jazz.

Exactly. I'm Adam Manus. I'm Peter Martin. Over there on the piano, that's Peter Martin. This is you'll hear a podcast. Jazz. Explained. Oh, I thought you were going in a different direction there.

I like that. Oh, well, we are kind of getting flowy. really flow because we got a we got a voicemail here the river runs through us we got a voicemail from daylin what's up dailin and uh if you want to leave us a message you can simply go to you'll hear it dot com we're on youtube by the way for this and so we're going to put a link i'm aware that there's lights in my face i know it's a lot illuminated it's a lot more lighty in here when we're live on youtube but shout out to youtube we got a brand new youtube channel called you'll hear it very creative ever heard of it that's right if you go to youtube dot com slash you'll hear it no pronunciation no

No punctuation. Sorry. You know what's cool? So if you're listening to this on the podcast, nothing's going to change. But there are some special things we're doing over on YouTube. For instance, on this very episode, we had some false starts. Yes. It wasn't our best work.

Well, it wasn't our worst work either. I know. That's what's so sad about it. We're flowing between our best and our work. We do occasionally because we go unscripted at the beginning. We do. We go unscripted in the middle. We go unscripted at the end.

Listen, it's all bad. This is thing. No, we keep the false starts in for you. I will be reading a teleprone. I will be reading a teleprone. But we're going to leave our false starts in on the YouTube so that you can have a little bit of... Isn't that charming, Adam? It is.

Oh, it's going to be... Would that be something it might be interesting? Yeah, it would be something I'd be interesting. Okay, tell me about this flow state because I'm super interested in this. I guess we're going to... Is this part of the question too? Yeah, so let's check out the question. Does I have some thoughts on this? Okay, listen to the question from Dalen.

Dalen? Hey, Peter and Adam. First, just want to say thank you so much for all the content you guys have been creating and publishing on Open Studio. the last few months of my practice has just improved tremendously because of the content that's on there. My question today is about the Open Studio podcast tagline, which is you'll hear it. I find that because of my education, my background, as a musician, I've been filled with so many ideas about the piano and about music theory and, you know, harmony and all these different things. And when I approach the piano, I find more often than not that I'm just pulling from a bucket of ideas in my mind and popping them onto the piano. And technically they work, but it feels very restricting because as a musician, I really search for that space of freedom with the piano where you're there with the piano and it's this intuitive experience.

And you can kind of foresee what something is going to sound like before you actually play it, as opposed to. to just, oh, here's an idea. Let me just throw it on there, and that'll be that. So I don't know if you guys had any advice for getting out of the world of ideas and into the more direct experience of playing with the piano and just the sound that it creates as opposed to the idea of the sound that it will create. Hopefully that makes sense, but maybe you guys will have some advice. Thanks a time.

So thanks for the question, D-Lan. I hope I'm pronouncing that name right. D-Lan. Dayline is D-A-I-L-E-N. I think that's D-A-L-E-N. There's J-L-E-N. I know J-L-E-N, like J-L-Rows, the basketball player.

And I know Gailen, Gailen Rupp, the great marathoner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not familiar with a Dalyan. Yeah, I never heard that name, too. It's a great name. Yeah. So, Dailen, yeah, so first of all,

it sounds like you might be youngish, just from your voice. And so you're probably, or likely in a part of your journey here where you are just ingesting all this stuff and you're absorbing this stuff, and it's not quite coming out as naturally as if you were to just sit down when you were five years old and sort of plink out whatever you hear. And that's because you're taking on a lot of information.

You're also judging a lot of information. This is a totally natural part of your process, Dalyan, and this is what every musician goes through. Caleb, could you put up on screen that graphic that I gave you the quote? So this is a famous quote in Zen Buddhism. And I think this, I always think of this when I think of people who are at this stage of ingesting information. and it not quite coming out right? So the quote starts, before one studies Zen,

mountains are mountains and waters are waters. After a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters. After enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters are once again waters. Now, Dalen, you are in that second phase

where the mountains aren't mountains anymore and the waters aren't waters, right? You have these ideas of what you think things should sound like because you're learning a lot, you're ingesting a lot of ideas. Like you said, theory and lessons and maybe transcribing and all that stuff.

And that's where that gets frustrating because you're like, well, why don't I sound like this? And also I'm not feeling natural when I do it. There is a point after you do all of this where the mountains become mountains again, the waters become waters, where you're able to just flow with whatever's happening.

And you've ingested all of this great information, all of the language from the masters. And so, yeah, that's right. So it feels like you're a child again. and things are just happening and you're hearing things, which actually we can do a little exercise later on how to hear some of this stuff naturally. So you're hearing stuff like you're a kid again, but you have all this information, all this wisdom that isn't coming out unnaturally

and not like you're trying to plug in some ideas. It's coming out like you. And it just takes time to get through that, Dealin. But I promise you, if you stick with the process and you keep absorbing things, but you also keep true to yourself and explore that, it'll start happening more and more naturally as you get. more experience. I love it. I've got a little quote too. I didn't have the graphic, but be true unto thine self. I believe that is a William Shakespeare.

Is that old Bill Shakespeare over there? Bill Shakespeare or Bill Maher. I'm not sure. One of the other. I don't know. I think it's him. I think that's great the way you put it. I love those three levels there that you outlined and it's very much correlates with, I think something we all experience in our practice and musical and just artistic journey in that you're going to feel like you're going backwards at a certain point. That's sort of that second stage when you're like mountains or not mountains and what am I doing? I should be getting better. And that's when you can definitely get into too much of a spirit of like doubt, self-doubt.

Yeah. Like and to me self-doubt is like the opposite or the inverse, I should say, of flow. you know and of like grace for oneself and in being in that state where you are most likely to be able to contribute something positive through your instrument as an artist to the world yeah you know to me that's what flow state or being in the zone or you'll hear it or any of that stuff really means it's like how are how can you position yourself to have the highest probability to add something nice to the world through through your music you know um and so like everything in some way, I think that we do in terms of our development, in terms of us talking about this, trying to learn can be and should be or as much as possible towards that goal ultimately. So by going, but by kind of taking a breath and realizing that's a, not only is it's a lifetime journey, it's not necessarily a lifetime journey as in, oh, when I'm 97 years old,

I'm finally going to make it over the mountain and find enlightenment. No, find it today. You just not find it very much of it. That's okay. It's available. And so, and not only find it, hurry up because the world needs it. Well, and you might look at that quote and say, well, wait a minute. If the mountains just become mountains and the waters become waters again, why even go through the effort?

But it takes that exploration to gain the wisdom. Yeah. To know, like, you have to really, and it's the same with that process of meditation, too, of like, you have to really poke around at it to gain that wisdom, to feel comfortable where you are and to be able to see the mountains as they are. Yeah. But knowing all of the other possibilities, right? And having to go through that.

And then you can just sit down just like you were five years old again at the piano. Yes. Like there's actually an exercise that I do with some of our. There's a lot of one, sorry, there's a lot of wonderment and innocence and and sloppiness and ignorance. We're playing the piano, baby. We're not working in a flow state. You know what I'm saying?

And so that's why we talk about getting in touch with your five-year-old self or your three-year-old self or your 12-year-year-old. or your 12-year-old self or whatever. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's playful. Yeah. It's not work. And the more of all this stuff, you know, the piano and the theory of the harmony and stuff, don't look at that as problematic for getting in that.

That foundation will still be there. And that will come to your service. Totally. It comes to a bigger service than just being able to like, I can play this chord or whatever. It absolutely helps. Yeah. And getting caught up in the theory and technique and all that stuff, that's where a lot of people just spin their wheels out without being able to see the mountains again. So can I show you this little exercise that I work with some of our students who are struggling with this?

Yes. Yes. The struggle is real. The struggle is real. And it's not being televised. Well, it is at Open Studio Pro. A way you can do this, Dalyan, is literally to do, I love working on this. So you can do this.

If you sit down at your instrument, whatever your instrument is, that's C to G up and down. And we've done this on the show before, actually. I'm going to play it a couple times so I can hear it here in the room. Okay. Now I'm going to develop what you might call that sense. sound, that inner child sound in my head, right? So I'm going to imagine those notes in that cadence, that scale up and down. And I'm going to think about it first, like, what do I want to say with this right now?

Like, what is it, what would it sound like if I wanted to express myself with that passage just as it is? How does that sound in my head? With this beautiful keyscape road sound, or it's not even a roads, it's a vintage vibe sound. What is that going to sound like hearing this room? So I'm going to, I'm going to think about what that sounds, literally try to hear it in my mind's ear. Yeah. And then here's the important part. Dalyan, you got to let go of any results.

So whatever happens, I don't care about. I only care about trying to hear the sound of that perfectly for me right now. What is here with me right now? So I'm going to hear that. So that was so beautiful. It felt so good to play that. I know it seems kind of hokey, but it feels really great when you can tap into that. So that's the first level of this.

Now, the second level is, why don't you try it, Peter, real quick. Just play it a couple times here. Because you are such a natural at this. Well, let me just note this, and this will help people before we do that. If you notice what Adam just did, what he didn't do, which when we're practicing and learning is as important as what we're doing sometimes. He did not say, wait, let me wait until I have the perfect piano or the perfect time. You connected right with the goal of playing. You didn't say, well, let me find something better.

Let me think about what this is going to sound like. You went directly into connecting as best that you could do under these circumstances and, like, made a commitment to elevate, intentionally elevate right at that moment. not the number of notes or the virtuosity or even what this might sound like to others or whatever. It was a very intentional thing for your connection with the instrument and the intention of being able to educate others, which is a very powerful thing to be able to take this. Well, and mostly I was just trying to play with it. Yeah. I was playing.

Oh, yeah, that too. What can I get? Yeah, but that's all part of this. What are we here in the moment? And then I'll play with that. Right. But what I'm saying is you didn't say, in order to play with it, just like a fire. The five-year-old starts to like have fun.

They're not like, can I get a Fasioly in here first, please? Yeah, can I get the right boots on before I jump in that creek? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so Peter, just play the five-year-old talks like, like, ah, coming from Brooklyn? This kind, this kind. Play the C to G if you don't mind, Peter, because I have a different kind of version that you could also try.

This is like level two, Daly, that we can do. And you can do this with like just four octaves of a scale if you want. Yeah. But are you getting anything on your piano there or no. Shout out to Keyescape. What a great sound. Is that the Fazzioli? No, that's the, yeah.

Yamaha, but it's a good one. Okay. Okay. So I can't add anything. You can't add anything. We're just going to use those four notes. Now, I want you to imagine, who's your, who's your all-time favorite pianists? You daddy. Who's your all-time? Talk about playful. Who's your all-time favorite pianists? All-time. If you were to, just today, who are you? Art Tatum. Art Tatum. Could you try to play this just that? Imagine Art Tatum had this task. He had this as a little intro for something. What would that sound like? Can I change my answer? No. And you can't, It has to be those five notes up and down. But imagine how Art Tatum would approach that.

Okay. That's beautiful, man. That was actually very kind of an interesting statement. Yeah. And what was great is you can't judge what happens. So whatever happens happens after. Yeah. We're listening because we can't help not to its part of it.

Yeah. But we're not judging good or bad. It's just interesting. It just is. And we're trying to hear that sound. So you could do this now. What would happen if you tried to play that passage if Keith Jarrett were to play that? How would that sound to you?

Can I add in an accompaniment? No. Okay. Can I buy a vowel? No. Okay. Keith Jarrett. That is so beautiful.

That was so gorgeous. I just remember at the end to add the... That was so gorgeous. So that's another thing you can do, Daly. I like take these very... Like, I use this on my technique exercises because it's such a great way to connect not only with your technique, but now you're connecting with what we call the mind's ear, right? And you're working on clearing the path from the music that's inside you out to your listener.

So, okay, one more thing here that you can do, Dalyan. Peter, can you mind just laying down a little groove here of like... Before we do that. All right, so we're going to set this groove. Peter, I'm going to set this for you here. Simple little groove, F major, G major, A minor. We're just going to keep it simple because we're going to keep it the scale. You don't mind grabbing this for me.

Oh, you. Yeah. So now you can work on this in a little more complex improvisation. Dalyan by just singing, literally singing to yourself, trying to hear what you play. And we're just going to use those same five notes. But we're going to, we're going to, We're going to open it up so that you can use any combination of that.

And see if you can hear a melody inside you. I'm literally hearing it just as it's happening. Thank you, Peter. So this idea, and you can do this with maybe a pentatonic scale too, but keeping your, restricting what notes you can play, right? You mentioned, like, theory and technique. Like, taking all that away. Restrictive practice.

And literally practicing trying to hear your musical voice with that. And then you can start, can you play Giant Steps, Accompany me on Giant Steps. One, two, one, two, three. Thank you, Peter. So then you can, I mean, I literally, it was the exact same neurons firing from the C to the G as it was for Giant Steps.

Just, you know, because the theory has been there, because we couldn't see the mountain for a while because we were exploring, came back to it, and now it's just making these melodies. And going right into that, it's important, right? But seeing that progression of hearing the sound in your head, and then, you know, when you think about theory and adding these kinds of, like, knowledge,

like these ideas like you were talking about, Dalylan. Adding those is just now being able to do that over more and more complex structures, like giant steps. Like this feeling should still be there of, I only have a couple of notes that we had, you know, or a pentatonic scale.

Same thing. Right. Hearing the notes and then not judging. I love it. Yeah. I love it, man. Cool. That's some knowledge we dropped,

mostly you, but that's good. No, I mean, we'll take it together. I've been working on this. You know, this is like a point in a lot of people's journey, especially we've got a lot of Open Studio Pro folks

who are such good players. They know a lot of theory, but there's kind of where Dailen is, like they're stuck in this kind of thing. This is a super common challenge. Totally. This exact kind of like, and the great thing is I think once you do these exercises,

and once you start to understand what the obstacle is, it's not actually an obstacle. No. It's like, it's an obstacle of your mind. And so it's not like the kind of thing of like, how can I play like artatim? Like that's a bigger obstacle, you know? Obviously.

But it's like how can you get past this point to where you're able to like, bring out all this great stuff that you have the possibility to have with the technique and the harmony and all the things you've learned. But like a little bit of a barrier to letting that come out in a more natural way and a way that's so much more fun and natural for you as you're listening and as you're playing it. That's right. I mean, it goes right along with our saying around here, which is you can't really information your way to being a better player. Oh, no, we say you can't information in your way. We leave out the really. But learning the information is the giant steps, right?

That's just the context you're putting it in. You, the playing, the musician, the music that comes out, that's that's that. That's hearing it in your head and being able to just. And look, a lot of people are going to be like, oh, yeah, that's great, but I don't know giant steps like that. I can't just do this. But that, in some ways, that's the simple part of your practice. Totally is. You've got to do those sets and reps.

You have to practice that. That's not going to happen overnight. Totally. But that's a lot easier for us. That's a shorter explanation in term, which we'll do on another episode. And we've done in terms of like how you learn these kinds of things. How do you, first of all, you don't start on giant steps. That's the obvious thing.

But in terms of developing. I'm not a fan of starting with giant steps. That's right. Oh, I like the way you're slick in that. That's great. This was good, man. Keep the great questions coming. Please, everybody, you can go to you'll hear it.com at any time.

Yeah. And leave us a voice memo, a voice message or a speak pipe. That's right. Well, they're all the same thing. Go check out our new YouTube channel. Hello. It's called you'll hear it.com. We got to explain to them how this.

Yeah. We got to explain how this came out. This is actually a partnership between three and, entities, Open Studio Jazz, you'll hear it, and Google. That's right. The three of us have come together to create this thing called a YouTube channel. Three titans of the industry. That's right.

Yeah. So please join us over there for a little bit of fun. That's right. Until next time, you'll hear it.