You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - From R. Endicott - #32

Episode Date: October 9, 2018

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Hey, Peter. What's up? Do you have any hobbies? I do. What's up? I have several hobbies. I like to putter around my driveway on Saturday mornings. I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Daily Jazz Advice, coming at you. Coming at you, brought to you by Open Studio. And today we have a question. This was actually brought to us via text message. That's how close we are with this person. Do we accept those? We do.

I think we have to if we know them that well. All right. Well, I'm going to go ahead. So Adam Maness's telephone number is. No, no, no, no, no. This is from our dear friend Rob. And Rob actually asked us a question a couple weeks ago that we answered

about a musical question, but this was a more interesting thing. And Rob and I have played together a little bit, and he's, you know, he's, he was instrumental in opening the National Blues Museum down here in St. Louis. He's a great guy. And we've had some great conversations.

And he kind of texts me a link to this New York Times article called In Praise of Mediocrity. And if you can find it, I would highly suggest, and if you're below your monthly limit of free articles. Oh, you don't subscribe? I do subscribe, actually. I highly suggest reading the article

because it's, of course, the New York Times well-written. It's a very interesting thought-provoking piece. But it's the just of it, the gist of it, is that, you know, people shy away from hobbies now more than they used to because of the need to be perfect or great at anything. Right. You know, the pressure to just be the best,

even if it's something that you're not a professional at. Sink or swim, maybe. Yeah, so I'll just read you, Rob's text a little bit. And he says, I don't know if your audience is more serious musicians and serious hobbyists, but you might consider a discussion about the joys of being a hobbyist slash enthusiast

at a lower level and someone who is trying to just get a little bit better. Not a criticism at all, but this article made me reflect on that, also on reflection, part of what me do those gigs. We did some gigs a few months back to see if I could hang. But I think what he was really, the point of what we was saying is, is could we talk about maybe the role of the not so advanced

or even someone who wants to become advanced, but just someone who enjoys playing jazz and maybe wants to get a little bit better, but is a true hobbyist. I think it's a great point, man, because, you know, he's right. And this article, I think, has a point about hobbyist and enthusiasts, as opposed to people trying to be at the top level. Yeah, I mean, I'm a huge, I haven't read the article yet. Thanks for telling me about it 20 seconds before we started recording.

You know how we prepare around here. But I'm really excited to read because it's a subject and kind of a concept and theme that I'm really interested in. And I'm a huge believer in, you know, not only jazz, but anything in the arts and beyond athletics and many different things of people pursuing something out of, you know, their passion for it regardless of their current skill level. Yeah. What I would see, like we always want to, you know, it used to be, you'd kind of be separated between a professional and a hobbyist.

You know, even like equipment, remember when like audio equipment, well, that's pro gear, well, that's hobbyist gear. That means it would fall apart if you're using it all the time or something. But then we kind of got into this area of, well, people wanted to sort of the best tools because I thought that was going to make them better. And so they would sort of buy up the tools, but they didn't necessarily have the passion are the skills. And I think the passion is the big thing.

And when you talk about playing jazz, playing music, I mean, it's such a primal need for all of us to be connected with music that once, you know, if you have any skill at all in an instrument, you're going to feel the draw at some point. You know, you may not follow it. And I mean, how many people after gigs over the years have come up to us individually and collectively and said, oh, I used to play piano, I wish I hadn't stopped. Hundreds, if not thousands.

It's got to be. And then how many people have come up to you and said, I kept playing and I wish that I had. What a waste of time. A couple. Yeah, a couple. But percentage-wise. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think that, so it really is that pull. And I think, you know, I mean, so much of what we're involved with in terms of education, I look at it as empowering the so-called hobbies. And we never use that word, although it's certainly accurate. It's certainly accurate. And I think about the things that are truly hobbies for me. I don't even use them with that because I'm almost more passionate about my so-called hobbies in a way because I feel like I'm further away from, you know,

reaching certain thresholds. Yeah. You know, not that I've achieved them all in music, but, you know, you get to a certain point where you're like, okay, I can do this. And then you start figuring out different ways to do it, whereas when you're so-called hobbies, like for instance, for me, I've been messing around with playing basketball my whole life, I mean, since I was really little. And, you know, so in a way I see myself, yeah, as a hobbyist, but I have, you know,

I've coached the game, I've played. I'm always like, I guess, trying to get better. but my passion for that is at a very high level. So my interaction with the game, it's not necessarily reflected if you were, it is, I don't want to overstate it now. If you come to see me play, you might be like, whoa, I thought you were at least a hobbyist.

But in terms of the joy that one can pull out of that endeavor, I think it's just amazing at that level, and I'm a big believer. And now, I haven't read the article, correct me if I'm, have you read it? Yeah, I did. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I can already kind of guess what he's saying, is talking about this trend. towards specialization that's starting with our youth where it's just like if you have got an extreme skill level or you've got it in your family you've got access to a special field or special instrument

then you pursue it otherwise it's like don't do anything and like don't be a generalist be a specialist right i mean the the subtitle of the article is the pursuit of excellence has infiltrated and corrupted the world of leisure which i think is a very interesting thing and and i think that is a really great point. You know, I have a couple of hobbies. I like to, I mean, I like food and and wine and beer, and that's definitely become a hobby. Like I would. F and B. It's not just, it's not just like something I do casually. Like I research and I love to go to restaurants and I love food and all that stuff. Foodie. But I play tennis as well and I've played golf in the past, although I haven't played golf much since I had kids. And for me, you know, it's funny because

I approach them the same way, pretty much that I approach the piano, just, you know, as far as like, I really enjoy learning and I really enjoy growth. And in a way, those things are almost more fun because it does, I don't really have skin in the game. I'm never going to be professional tennis player. Probably not. I don't know. I still have hopes for the oil. Get yourself off one day. I mean, a couple of years. But, no, but you know. Magaro's on the down swing and you're still on the upswing. That's right. In a lot of ways. I've been saving my knees just for this right time. But, no, like, so, like, about tennis and perfecting my game and working on it is really fun because I can see growth and it doesn't, you know, it's not there to feed my family. It's just something I do just for my own enjoyment. So I don't take it that seriously. Although if you, again, if you saw me on the court, you might say you take a little too seriously. But the piano, I think we get professionals, while it can be a little more intense, it's also, I think, probably more satisfying in the end because it is like, that's the real deal.

Like you have skin in the game. Yeah. You know, there's no... Your kids may not eat if you are taking it seriously enough. Yeah, and you're not faking the funk. Like you... You have confidence. It matters, yeah.

And so there, I think the... But not that, you know, my hobby of tennis is, like I said, any, like less important to me, weirdly. You know what I mean? As far as learning about it and getting better. But it's just a different vibe. And I think, you know, for us, I know, We have musicians, we have pro musicians, like we have really good pro musicians that listen

and are members of Open Studio, and we have people who, you know, are just learning how to play, you know, their first instruments. So, we have the whole gamut here of folks. Yeah, and I really don't think, I've never been a, you know, a big believer in making a demarcation point, you know, or any kind of line between professional and amateur or professional and hobbyists in the world of music. because, you know, we both know some so-called amateur musicians in that their vocation is something else. Yeah.

And they only play for fun, so let's speak, that are better than some professional working musicians as well. So, like, in terms of, like, the level, and that's not even to speak to your interaction and love of the music and stuff. So I've never made that that heart of a line with that. And even, like, I always remember there was a great, anyone from New Orleans that was around in the 90s, we'll remember this. There was a great, and I mean, it's just horrible. forgetting his real name, but everyone knew him as beer man. Like literally this guy was beerman. He was like, he was, I mean, he must have been like mid-20s. He wasn't super young as an athlete, but he used to drive the delivery truck for Budweiser to like the Saints training facility for

the New Orleans Saints football team. And so he kind of knew. And then he had something else like he had played football some in college, but he was small. Like I remember he was like maybe five foot, eight, 160 pounds, five, seven, maybe. you know, really good athlete and kind of had been around the game. But it was from New Orleans. And he was just kind of working and loved the sport. But he stayed in shape and sort of being out there and access to the training facility. He found out when they were going to have like walk on, like kind of unofficial training, like when all the rookies showed up.

And he sort of was kind of around there, started throwing a ball with some of them and got a tryout, basically. And then he ended up, they kind of called him in the, he didn't make the team, but they called him in the, he was still driving the, he was a beer man, driving the truck. Yeah, yeah. They called him in the middle of the season. They had, like, some injuries. And he came out, and, like, for the first kickoff, he was, like, special teams, you know, like, the last person. And they needed him. So he's doing, like, a kickoff return.

His very first one, he ran it back for a touchdown. Oh, my goodness. Against, like, Green Bay or something. Oh, my goodness. And then the next one, he ran back, like, 50 yards. And, like, he had a passion for the game. Like, was he professional? Yeah, they were paying him at that point.

But, I mean, it's like, that just shows you, like, the line between a hobby and a professional. That can, that can, you know, was he any different of an athlete, than he was a couple of weeks before. Not really just he did luck or got had the opportunity or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So obviously his connection and passion for the game was so strong that then there was a luck part about him driving this beer truck by the place. Totally. Yeah, yeah. And so I think that that, you know, when you speak about your passion for other things, so-called hobbies, it's not about the professional or not. And I know that we both derive and a lot of people derive joy out of a hobby in that you don't have some of the things of the professional, you know, business world kind of getting

in the way. You can just, like, you can pursue your love of tennis without ever having to be like, man, how am I going to make money? Do I need to teach tennis? Do I need to buy it? Do I need to hustle somebody? Yeah, yeah. No, it's pure. There's a purity there. I was talking to a friend of mine who has worked as a tennis pro. And he was like, he's like, man, I never want to do that again. It made me not really enjoy tennis for a while. Like I just didn't want to, you're on the court all day or whatever. Right. And then you, the last thing you want to do is like, go play tennis. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I've had like, you know, when I was younger, I did a teaching gig at a, you know, big box music store or whatever. And I really just did not enjoy teaching jazz piano that much

and like to people who didn't really care about it. But like I see where this like, you know, sometimes being a professional can sort of, and we know professionals who have had the joy straight sucked out of them. Yeah, yeah. Most, most are in it for the right reasons. Right. You know, you But yeah, and then there's, like you said, there's amateurs who are on that line. I mean, professional amateur is very vague, especially in music, because so many people with other jobs can just do gigs. What? You know, but, yeah, there's, there are amateurs who have a ball I see on gigs. And I'm like, man, that looks like fun.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, by the way, beer man is Michael Lewis. The joys that the internet is I put into Google as you were just talking Beer Man Saints. Perfect. And he comes up, like, right away, a whole profile on Michael Lewis. That's awesome. And he was actually born in 71. As I remember, he was not super, it wasn't like he was a 19 year old or 20 year old at this time.

But he was probably like mid-20s. That's awesome. Yeah, five foot eight. There we are. But anyway, so I think just to the point of the article of what I'm imagining it, too, this whole thing of like pursuing things only if you're great at them or you're talented. Like, I actually hate that, especially with young people. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm so against that because, you know what it is?

I think people think because you have more access to sort of. data or supposed data on on and you know this gets muddled up a lot in the in the music world in the arts world and in the sports world because these are high stakes areas that people want to be in they're super competitive and people think that you can grade music in the way that you can athletics but I think it's a similar and obviously you can't you know I mean oh he's a 97 at the solo no he was a 94 what are you talking about well Joshua Redmond beat Chris Potter today four to five 4 to 3. But I mean, I think just the even deeper level of looking at young people and saying they're talented in music.

They're talented in STEM. What's the new thing? STEM. Yeah. And then do you know about STEAM? I know about STEAM. I mean, all this. I mean, I love the more inclusive, like, let, because, I mean, we, you're going to get labeled in life, but label yourself.

Yeah. You know what I mean? If you want to be a musician and everyone's like your tone deaf or whatever. ever, don't let them suck the joy out of it for you, I think. Totally true. I mean, you know, look, if you're going to be Mozart or LeBron James or, you know, Stefan Grapelli, there's a trio for you there. Stefan Curry.

Stephen Curry, right, right. You know, that's going to happen. Yeah. That's going to happen. You're going to have to, somebody's have to fight harder against that happening to you than not. I mean, like the sport, the music, the muse or whatever is going to find you. Yep.

And you're going to, the cream will rise to the top as we say. But that's just one part of it. And within music and other fields, whenever I've been around people that are at just the top of their fields, I mean, I'm talking about the LeBron James of different fields. I've never been around LeBron. But, you know, their actual skill level in most of these things is not,

it's very high and they're amazing, but it's not that different than the others around them than you would think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think we've seen that with great jazz musicians and stuff. I mean, like Nicholas Payton, someone I've been around a long time, and he's younger than me, just a little bit. But I look at him as like an old master or something because he's so good. But we can all play with him, too. I mean, he's not like so good that he's like, oh, I have to find some robots to work with.

You can't even hear the music I play. You won't hear it. Yeah, you won't hear. That's great. Well, Rob, thanks for the really great question. Thanks for sharing the insightful article. Check that out. Again, the name of the article is it's an opinion piece called In Praise of Mediocrity.

in the New York Times. Really, really fun read, especially if you are a hobbyist of anything. If you're hobbyist or an enthusiast of anything, it's fun. I love this image on it, too. In the opinion, man, they've been getting some slick images, man, on the opinion section. Good, well. Cool. Until next time, you'll hear it.