You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Getting Dogmatic: How to Get the Gig

Episode Date: March 21, 2019

More jazz advice from the Podcave as Peter and Adam give some dogmatic advice on getting gigs.Today's episode is sponsored by the Oxford American. The Oxford American is a magazine dedicated to documenting the complexity and vitality of the American South. Its award-winning annual music issue comes with a CD sampler and digital download - a must-have for any serious music fan. Recent issues have featured Nina Simone, Thelonious Monk, John Cage, and John Cage. Visit https://www.oxfordamerican.org/yhi today for a special subscription discount!Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey, what's up? Uh, you got any work? Uh, I got gigs, yo, I got gigs, yo. I got gigs, yo. Not interested. I'm Adam Anis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast.

Daily Jazz advice coming at you. I'm Peter Martin. I've been having trouble saying my name. Remember last month when you were having trouble with your name? I have an excuse because of the double M run on. But why Peter Martin? I don't know. I'm Peter Martin.

That was better. Well, you know, people think that we're rehearsing this. We're not. Oh, I think it's obvious. We're not, buddy. This is not scripted. I know that you're holding a piece of paper and you're about to say the words on it, but that's because there's a very specific thing. But the rest of this, you know, we're free-balling, as we like to say.

What I was about to say is today's episode is sponsored by the Oxford American. For a limited time, you'll hear it listeners can subscribe to the Oxford American for only $25.000. Visit Oxfordamerican.org slash Y-H-I for that deal. Subscribe today. Let's be clear. $25 for the year for this wonderful magazine. It's true that you'll hear a podcast. You can get a whole year's worth of daily jazz advice for,

free. But the quality level on this, let's be honest. That's way more valuable. It's a little better. This is award winning, like real awards from actual like literary societies and stuff. We call ourselves award-winning podcast. We're going to let our listeners in a little secret. It's self, self-awarded at this point. We're open though. Is there like a like a podcast, like the potty's or something? There is the one. No, that was the Saturday Life sketch, but man, we should definitely win some kind of potty for for the best jazz. Yeah. Editing. Best jazz.

We would win for Andrew. That's right. I'm sure of it. Today we're getting dogmatic. Yes. Which I know you love to do. I do. I do.

Because look, that's a great part about being a jazz position, a jazz lover is, you know, we're a small niche, but we're dogmatic where we have high standards. And we're like, you know, I mean, I'm not going to say we're calling the jazz police out today, but we may be. They're circling for sure. Yeah, this is a, well, I don't know. Sometimes we, I feel like we are the jazz police and sometimes we feel like we call out the jazz police. And then we make fun of them, but are we becoming them? I mean, it's, yeah, it's a little self-deprecation.

I think so. Dogmatic Thursday. Well, today we're talking about how to get the gig. We get asked all the time, and we've been asked numerous times in the last few months about, you know, tips for getting work or getting in a band or getting your own gigs. And we've covered this a little bit before, but I thought we could just kind of have a general topic of discussion about getting gigs, maybe some etiquette and some strategies and some tips for landing the gig you want. Now, I notice you titled this, how to get the gig. Is this different than how to get a gig? I guess how to get a gig is a little more desperate, right?

How to get any gig, whatever you got. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. No, this is really about how to get the gig you want. So whatever that gig means for you. If that's a gig in someone's band, if that's a gig at a restaurant, if that's a gig at a festival, we can kind of cover all those bases, I think, today.

Okay. So, I don't know. No, I think first thing is, yeah, maybe kind of identifying what the gig is or what type of gig, but also thinking about why you want to get the gig. I think that's the first thing. Yeah, yeah. Now, when we're younger,

I think it's okay to kind of just go on sort of adrenaline and dreams and like, man, I remember I was like, I wanted to play with Art Blakey. I wanted to be in the Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. And that was like, I want to do that gig. And I think it was for all the right reasons because I love the sound of the current band. Yeah.

It was like Terrence Blanchard, and I saw him live and Donald Harrison. And, but it was also, like then going back in here in the recordings, it was like, man, it would be so cool to be part of that lineage. So I never got a chance to do that. So kind of set the bar high with Art Blakey,

but the nice thing about that than any other gigs I got turned out to be a little easier to get, you know? Well, it's so funny that you mentioned Art Blakey because I just listened to this Christian McBride's radio show and he was interviewing Benny Green. Yeah. And Benny Green was telling him about

how he got that Art Blakey gig. Right. And I think the advice he gave, or his process, how he got the gig, is super valuable to anybody, no matter if that's a gig with like local cats or whatever. Yeah.

And that's basically he learned all of Art Blakey's music and then just hung around Art Blakey as much as he could. Yeah. Until one day he got a chance to sit in, someone called a tune that no one else would probably know and he knew it and all of a sudden, I mean,

he could also play, let's be honest. Yeah. And he got the gig. Yeah. And I mean, I think that this is for some reason, I don't want to sound like an old fuddy-duddy, but this is becoming a lost art, this idea of like,

Learn all the music on a gig that you want to be on. Yeah. And learn it knowing that you may not get the gig, that part of luck and the intersection of like hanging around and maybe there's a chance. That may come or may not. But you learned all that music. That's great for you. Yeah. Whether you do the gig or not.

Yeah. And that's actually the way I was. Like I learned all of Art Blakeys that stuff off the recordings. Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't quite as tactical as he was as far as hanging around. But I mean, when I got to New York, I did hang around a little bit. But I was so glad I learned that music, even though I didn't get to do the gig. because that made me a better player.

It connected me with that music. So you have to do it willingly. You can't be like with the expectation that you deserve something. Well, as a band leader, if I, if there's a young drummer who comes to my concerts or shows on the regular and I get to know them because you know, you don't have to super schmooze or anything. Just introduce yourself and be like, yeah, I play drums or whatever. And for some reason, a session opens up because it's late at night or whatever and they sit in and they know my tunes. Yeah. I'm remembering that.

Right. That's going to make a huge impression on me. You know, so if there's a band where you are near that you can kind of hang out around that you admire, you know, just like, you don't, again, you don't have to be creepy with it. Just like, go to the concerts. First of all, it's good to go hear music, especially if it's music you like. But introduce yourself, make yourself known, and then if you get a chance to sit in, call one of their tunes. I mean, that is impressive. Exactly, exactly.

And, I mean, it's just like, it's just, that's sort of the professionalism side of it. in terms of like you wouldn't go to a job interview with a company and not know anything about the company and expect to get a job there. Yeah, yeah. You know, they start asking, so what, you know, how do you see yourself fitting into Microsoft?

Oh, I don't know. What is Microsoft? I'm really smart, though. I can learn once they get. Yeah, it's kind of like. So, but then there's also just the real personal tactical side of it in that you're learning music that's great,

whether you get the thing or not. So you're still working for your development. And I think that if you're lucky enough to be in a position where you have the freedom to learn music and dream for something big in terms of maybe it's not that easily attainable, but at least you know that the process to get yourself prepared for that is going to be so helpful for you. Then you'll move on to the next thing and you've accumulated that knowledge. And then the part of just showing up and being around, that's when you're putting yourself in a position to get lucky, basically. Because people always like, you know, oh, you got lucky. May I was so lucky you got this gig and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, you didn't see all the times when I wasn't lucky.

That's right. Like around our Blakey or whatever, you know, and I never had the attitude like anything I deserve this. To this day, I'm like, I don't deserve any. There's so many great jazz pianists out here. But I also like, I was always willing to put myself and I see that with you. And really with all great jazz players, because this is such a communal music. It's not even that you force yourself in this situation. It's not like we're, you know, software developers where our tendency is to be in a room by ourselves,

maybe, you know, writing code, which is great. And it's a little bit harder to get out there and meet people and to be in a, because it's a solitary work by, by, by and large. Yeah. This music is, is the community part of it is one of the great parts about it. So it's not even like, oh, I got to go out and network now. Yeah. I got to go out and see some jazz people. It's always been part of it.

Yeah. And going out and hearing the people that you might want to get on the gig with also gives you, opportunity to really get the vibe more than you would even on recordings or videos. I mean, you can, you know, if they're all wearing three-peats suits, probably you want to show up in Three-Peteens? That's your kind of suit. Three-Pets. Remember when I was bigger? I was like a three-peat suit. I pictured like, like, you know, a suit of cats and a trench coat, like three of you. You're like 12. The Russian doll. The hat keeps coming off. Yeah. But anyway, like, hey, you call me short? Like, you. You call me short?

Like three of me is like six feet, right? No, no, no. It'd be like a good 12, 13 feet. Oh, right. But yeah, if they're all wearing suits and you show up in cut off jean shorts, yeah, probably not going to get that. Come on, man. You're going to end up on our upcoming come on man episode, which we're still working on.

So then the second part of this, I think, is how to get a gig under your own name. And I think there's some strategies. I don't even know if we've actually talked about this in depth on this podcast, but we both do this with our own groups all the time. Create a gig. Yeah. You can't get a gig, create a gig. That's right.

I mean, there's plenty of spaces that we create a gig. But if you're trying to get into clubs or festivals or anywhere, restaurants or whatever, the one thing I see people make mistakes at all the time is they feel like they're entitled to the gig

without proving at all that they'd be a benefit to that venue. Right. You know what I mean? They're singing that famous song that's been sung too much, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

It's more of a vocal warm-up than anything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not about you. I actually encourage you, just what we said, you can just rent out and try to do a gig yourself. If you've never done that, it's going to be eye-opening

about what it takes to actually get people to your gig. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, and it's also, it's such a great exercise in empathy in terms of, you know, historically, jazz musicians love to complain about club owners and presenters and festival, people that run festivals.

But don't fall into that trap because times now are very different than they were back in the day. So don't just take some quotes. that you, I mean, like Charlie Parker and Miles Davis and they actually, and going back before that, were up against some big battles against these clubs. I mean, they were getting messed over in a way that. So be careful, like, when you fix your mouth to be like, oh, that club owner messed me over. Like, did he make you come in the back door and not allow you and your guests to even walk through the front door? Like, let's set the bar there. Yeah, yeah. And then maybe you can understand. And I mean, even like with festivals, oh, they won't book me on this festival. They don't know what they're talking about. I mean, Christian McBride is the artistic director of the Newport Jazz Festival. So like, things have changed. And then nothing. things, it's not perfect. I'm not saying that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we, we are empowered in a way, and you can empower yourself. And how about a little empathy for the other side? Now, you and I have both been presenters of programs that we've been part of an even other musician. We're presenting

a concert this weekend with our friend Alves. Exactly. So, I mean, it's been a great exercise for us to understand, to your point of like, what does it actually take to get people to come in and what is the monetary side of it? Like, at least have a little bit of understanding of what that is before you go in and saying, I deserve this, I deserve that. But you know, you'll gain some knowledge from doing this as even just an exercise of trying to book your own show that you can come back to with venue and

promoters and people who book festivals and clubs and stuff with knowing exactly what they would want to hear or the information because if you can prove that you can draw a crowd that needs to be part of your pitch absolutely you know what I mean because that's what they're really interested in right right

I mean the great thing though about most jazz presenters that I've come into contact with the vast majority in this day and age. And I mean, I've had a fair amount of experience, not as much as some people, but I mean, I feel like a good cross-section. Most of these presenters, yeah, they care about and they need to have people to come in. You need to be able to draw.

But they also love the music in a way that your normal just like mercenary kind of presenter wouldn't. I mean, that's kind of what's attracted to that. We talk about the community element of this. We talk about it yesterday. It's so important. That's what most of these club owners actually are, not all of them. And there's some big exceptions.

But I mean that part of it, it's a combination. So when you come up with that kind of spirit of compromise and understanding and empathy, things can work out a lot better. So do a little research on the club you're soliciting. Yeah. You know, see what they like. You can get a real vibe for the promoter's taste by what is booked there. And you can sort of position, you don't have to change anything you're doing, but you can kind of position yourself to be like, this is our spin on what you're already doing, obviously. You know what I mean?

And I think that something that I've seen you do really well and successfully, Adam, is, come into a new leadership role. Like if you're coming in as a leader of say your trio, I've seen you do this or other kinds of concerts with your groups, as with the spirit of collaboration with the presenter or club owner or promoter in which you're coming together to create something. It's not just about I need this or I'm not going to come or you've got to give me this. Or it's also not like I'm going to promise this and I'm going to bring it.

It's more like let's see what we can build up together. or this is what we have. I see what you have is this, and coming together can be bigger than just the one, and we all need each other. Well, I think this is especially important if you're trying to get a regular gig. And you know, this might not work in like lower Manhattan, let's say,

or Brooklyn, you know what I mean? But like where we are and kind of where I am, I'm able to, if I want a weekly gig, I can be like, yeah, I will work with you on the price and we can work this together with the expectation that we're going to build this thing up. Yeah. And then neither of us have to worry about it.

Win win. Yeah. We're going win-win or lose-lose. But I didn't go in being like, I need $1,000 of musician from a 40-seat bar every week. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I see some of these younger, not just, I don't want to say younger because sometimes it's just like- That is my rate, by the way, the promoters out there. I mean, it's not younger because a lot of older musicians make the same mistake. When we come in, like, I got to have this, the contract, you've got to guarantee me.

All that's fine. But make sure that you're like within reason of what you can actually deliver musically and in terms of audience. Because the reality is like you're going to want to work. with most of these presenters and clubs and like we go around to do a lot of these festivals around the world and it's always you know sometimes the business end can start to seem more important than it is where you're like the contracts is this you've got to give me i mean look are you really you're going to come to this festival in Sweden and if you don't have you know the correct bottle of red wine in your dressing room are you really going to sue them no are you going to not go on the stage because something wasn't like you try to work things out in a way and i think on both sides that give and take needs to be there because you we need each other i will walk if they serve Cabernet Sauvignon instead of a Cabernet Franck, I will walk off the game. Well, I mean, that's why I said within reason that. I mean, we're not barbarians out here. Well, this is good.

You know, let us hear from you guys about what you do to get your gigs, either to get the gig on a band you love or to get your own gig. Where would they let us hear us hear? They would let us hear that at you'll hear it.com. Which, by the way. On YouTube. Oh, on YouTube. You're still scared of that, aren't you?

I don't go near it. I won't go near. You were just answering. I did. I did. I did an in-depth answer. comics because we don't really have a um well we have the new you'll hear at dot com have we even talked about that we have a little bit but you have to check out if you haven't checked it dot com yeah check it out

can you spell it probably not bro just google it there's almost too much rich jazz information you'll hear it dot com oh my goodness give it back the blog post on give it back we're getting in your minds we're pulling it all back we've got triad pairs we got swing we got voicings we got on there's so much information you'll hear at dot com just a reminder that today's episode of you'll hear it podcast is sponsored by the Oxford American. The Oxford American is a magazine dedicated to documenting the complexity and vitality of the American South. Its award-winning annual music issue comes with a CD sampler and digital download.

It's a must-have for any serious music fan. CD sampler and digital download. That's win-win right there. You can do either or both. Recent issues have featured Nina Simone, Thelonious Monk. John Cage and John Coltrane visit Oxfordamerican.org. You'll Hear It slash Y-H-I, which stands for you'll hear it. today that's oxfordamerican.org

forward slash y h i you know what i'm realizing this whole thing of like this is a great example of the cd and the digital download like that's kind of for me where it's at like with books you know i mean this is crazy but certain books that i like i have the physical copy but then i've gotten the kindle version because sometimes i have that with me on the road and i want it and then i've even done the audible copy of it too i'll buy it like three times i mean what i care it's ten bucks each one it's a great book no i mean think about how much you can learn and same with cd's you know how many times I've bought kind of blue. I mean, I've easily bought that. I know. 25 times. Yeah.

Giving it to people and I've got it on different things. But I mean, it's, I mean, these things are like valuable assets and we should treat them as that. And sometimes having them in separate forms is nice. Agreed. Yeah. All right. Well, until tomorrow.