You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Gotta catch 'em all: Grooves

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Speakpipe Wednesday! Jonathon asks how to capture an individual style of groove. Adam and Peter deliver!Woosh or No Woosh? Hit us up on Twitter and let us know which team you are onCheck out Open Studio Pro hereSupport the pod by spreading the word with the link youllhearit.com Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Peter. What's up, man? What? I'm sorry, I'm a little distracted. Yeah, what's going on? I'm working on my rhythm. Is that rhythm? I mean, I'm working on my groove.

Okay. I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Music advice and inspiration flowing at you. Beautifully. Inspiration today, Peter. So we have been calling for testimonials.

Yes. For our dear listeners. Calling all testimonials. That's right. Testimonial lists. We got to speak pipe from our friend Jonathan, who left us. both a testimonial and a question.

And so we thought we would use our speakpipe Wednesday to, again, reiterate that we want to hear your, you'll hear it story. We're putting together an episode of our listeners' stories. And Jonathan just beautifully lays it out here. And then asks a very poignant question. Right. And so, yeah, this is sort of an example. You don't have to, it's really just an example of how simple it can be. So hopefully you'll take inspiration and that you'll go to you'll hear at.com and leave your speakpipe.

And it doesn't have to be a question also as this is late. out, but we're looking for those testimonials still. I'm really looking forward to that episode because I've been listening to them as they've been coming in and they're really, I mean, yeah, and it's just inspiring to us to keep going for hearing from you guys and what the pod means to you. Well, let's hear Jonathan's testimonial and then question. Yes. Hi, guys.

I just want to say how much I've thoroughly enjoyed the whole open studio experience. I discovered it just at the beginning of lockdown. I work as a frontline health worker in the north of England. And over the past two years, it's been pretty great. rim up here. So the wonderful podcasts, lighthearted banter, the technical expertise, the free-flowing knowledge, the richness of the material, the positivity and the sheer nerdiness of it all has been fantastic guys, you know, you've been my source of inspiration and my happy place, my place I come back to and time and time again. So thanks so much. I would love an episode

devoted about how to capture a individual style of groove in playing how to develop your timing so that you're locked in. I struggle with this so much. I played with metronomes. I'm playing on the and, sorry, setting the metronome to the end and doing all the things you suggest, sometimes feel a long way from establishing that rock solid rhythm and groove throughout the throughout the playing. Thanks guys. Speak again soon. Bye now. Wow. Amazing. Jonathan. Thank you for the kind of words. Peter, we got a lot of people up there in the north of England. Yes. You know that. We got a lot of English folks here and just folks in the UK in general. Yes. But Northern England is representing for our podcasts. Yeah. And I mean, you know,

I have some, I have a bunch of cousins in the UK in general. all up in Scotland and stuff, but there's some in particular in Durham, which is up in the north of England. So I know that area. There's a lot of people up there. We always think about London down, you know, and it's like this huge city and center of music and everything. But it's a very populated bunch of cities up there and stuff. And thank you, Jonathan, for your service, because it is hairy up there for COVID and has been for a while. That's right.

Absolutely. Amazing stuff. And thank you for the kind words, of course. Yeah, no, that's just great. Probably not the first time someone's going to call us nerds, I would have guessed. No, we wear that as a badge of honor. You know what I mean? We, that's what we're here for and that's what it really excites us and hopefully you guys.

So no, it's all good. Okay, so let's talk about groove and let's talk about rhythm and let's talk about how we work on it because I think that, you know, we've given a lot of advice about this over all the time on the podcast. because we think it's so important. It's the most important thing. It's the most important thing. But having said that, it's like how can we work on this, honor it as being the most important thing, but then not make it so precious that we get overwhelmed by our lack of mastery of it. You know, like when you put something up on a pedestal as groove and rhythm should be, it's very easy to be like, oh, I'm falling short.

I can never get up there. But it's both the most important element of this music and it's potential. and in reality the most accessible part of this music and the most organically accessible part. So it's like I want you guys to really think about not getting into your head too much about this. And Jonathan, I can hear you kind of getting into a little bit of like, man, I've practiced these different things. And I think those are good things to practice with the metronome and with the metronome on the offbeat and these kind of things. But it's very much, it's very important for us not to lose our natural, almost childlike connection with

groove, you know? Like, how do we keep that going while we actually work on the specifics that are needed as a player to be able to delineate that connection that we have with the music through our playing at all times? Man, I love all of that. And that's so true. This is really one of the areas where language fails as big time. Yes. Because it's not just about where you're lining up next to a metronome. And it's, it doesn't not include pitch and it doesn't not include melody. Melody. And it doesn't not include inflection and articulation. It's what we're talking about here is not the content of what you're saying, but how you're saying the content. Yes. So this is actually something that you might, Jonathan, think about how an actor prepares

for a role. And if they have to say the line, an actor prepares for the role, they might say an actor prepares for the role. Or they might look in the mirror and say, an actor prepares for the role, or an actor prepares for the role, or an actor prepares for the role. Now, we... Well, that last one had a nice little rhythm to it.

I like that. Well, exactly. So, they're getting... But it's not, you know, how I'm saying it is the pitch and the inflection and where I'm emphasizing certain words is not taken away from the rhythm. Right.

So I can say, an actor prepares for the role. Yeah. An actor prepared for the role. And it's completely different. An actor prepares for the role. And all of that is totally different. And even if you say an actor prepares for the role, that still has a groove to it.

It's not as bupah, but it has. And that's like when we talk about, you know, even Rubato playing or kind of out of time or loosey-goosey ballady playing, whatever you want to call it. Like those have a groove and a pulse. It's just different than. But ding-d-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding. And it's all good. And they're all grooves. Or like,

like, bag, tack, where it's like a strong backbeat that's just like stuck inside of you. You know, all these things are grooves

and the whole thing is to get as many of these different kind of inflate, ways of inflecting, ways of feeling the groove, ways, and then ultimately of being able to play

and live inside of those grooves. Yeah. But I guess to realize that the connection with the groove, you don't have to practice that. Like the practicing, with the metronome, the working on the grooves, learning how to syncopate, learning where different grooves lie, that's about just connecting your playing with, hopefully an innate sense

of groove that you have yourself. Yeah, it's, I think, is really connected, man, to all of this, the idea of the way we play things is more important even than what we're playing. But it's not even that it's more important. It's that it's all connected. Yeah. So if I were, again, we're going to use a lot of vocal examples here, Jonathan, because there's such a straight, from how we speak to how we play. You know, it's really connected. Yeah. And so if you were to say something like,

da-a-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ta. Shuba. Shuba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Now that's monot-a-dot. Okay, you guys, you can't see Adam, but let me describe it. He looks so bored. Dead eyes. He just his whole person.

Right, but actually, so an actor-preas-to-the-roll. So the dead eyes is part of my, yeah. I'm trying to communicate to you that this is. boring. But if I were to actually like perform this in a way that I wanted to say something, while I have lots of options, and this is an important decision, it's not just da-ga-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-a-da. You know, like, there's so many different ways you can say this. And I think, like, our friend and friend of the show, Christian McBride. You know, he's someone who I think, when he solos, there's almost no difference in both the

timbre and the range of his instrument and his beautiful bass baritone voice. You know what I mean? He's got a speaking cadence and a way that he says things that is just, it's like a one in the same kind of thing. Like his voice is literally a voice on the instrument is very similar to his voice in real life. Yeah, absolutely. That's great stuff. So one other angle I'd like to add in, um,

that can hopefully, you know, just help you, Jonathan and everybody, all of us, is, you know, this Adam's talking about, what we've been talking about, that connection with the voice and, like, using that is really a bridge with, you know, the humanity that we have and they can connect with the grooves, but also just an organic kind of connection away from our instrument almost or in line with, then bringing it to the instrument. But also, I would say dance. And dance does not need to mean, like, you have the right clothes and you're at the right club and the beat comes on and you're like the center of attention that's going next level you might

have that talent but it's very much like the difference between you know a high level marathon runner perhaps even like world class and somebody who can just run effectively someone who can run for exercise or can jog at any speed but like they can move their body without getting injured in a way that's really conducive for them to say like wow I'm a runner I'm running in temple I'm doing my thing like I'm covering the miles the same as a world-class marathoner. It's taking me three times as long. It doesn't matter, but I'm doing the same thing, in essence. And so I think for us with dancing, that's very important.

And that could be as much as just like feeling the groove. Now, Adam, you can describe me right now. Shoulders are twitching. Yeah, you know, he's kind of two-stepping it here. Yeah, you know, a little bit of. Is it pretty? Sorry. It's not really pretty, but it's effective.

Like, I'm in the groove. I'm feeling the groove, though. Yeah, you're feeling the groove. And I'm feeling, and so I think that we want to think about that connection. And that could be just tapping your feet. But it's really when you're listening, in order to be able to do this when you're playing, I mean, look, the whole thing is to be able to come to the point,

hopefully, where you're like, where you can sit down and take that feeling that you have for the groove, which doesn't, I mean, maybe is not, I don't think that I have any, you know, necessarily world-class approach to that. I can feel that groove. Yeah. But it's just like, you know,

so can hundreds or thousands of others feel that. You know what I mean? But it's like, how do you sit down and be able to connect with that with something that you potentially have with your voice or with your body more so than you have on your instrument. I mean, this is such a huge lightning bolt

for a moment for, it should be for all of you, and it is certainly for me, but dance is so connected to the music that we're playing. And if you think that it's not, I totally disagree, because you play an artful music like jazz. No, it's at its roots, even not even at its roots.

Like, I remember being a snot-nosed college student at the new school. Right. And I had a combo class with a bunch of really talented, yeah, a bunch of really talented players who are, some of them now are actually quite famous. And our instructor was Joe Chambers.

And ever heard of him. He was amazing. I mean, he was no bullshit. Like, and he was hardcore though, right? He's a gruff dude, right? He's not messing around with anything. Suffer fools, but? And he did not like the way we were playing Donnelly or something.

It was a bebop tune. Yeah. And he was like, this is not how bebop should feel. He's like, and he's, there was a lot of curse words, I think. But he was like, we used to dance. to be by when I was a kid. And he danced. Right.

He showed us. He danced to Donnell Lee. Right. And it looked amazing. Right. You could all of a sudden see the music. And I don't know about you, man, but I, it's one of my favorite things to play as people are dancing.

One of my most formative musical experiences I had was my senior in high school. Senior year in many quotes because I think I didn't show up. But I joined the legendary son of Star Child, which is a legendary dance band here in St. Louis. I think mostly James Brown and Parliament Funkadelic cover. covers and I was kind of the lead soloist that had a little poly 61 little wiggle synthesizer you know in a Rhodes

and set it right on top there set it right on top and just learning how to solo as people were dancing to that music I mean that teaches you all you would need to know about phrasing and space and then I've also been very lucky to do things like play with great tango bands and watch people

dance tango and watching them dance a completely different style of dancing right but you see how the music should sound but so connected with that groove you see Different groove, same connection. Totally. Like, you see the tango dancers, they're not locked perfectly in step

with the groove at all times. You're like, oh, neither is like the great band on Jonas from the past. Like, there's this fluidity that happens in music and that teaches you about the groove and how to play it. It's incredible, man. I highly encourage you,

if you get a chance to play for dancing people, like a dance band, go do it. Man, the tango, is that a, just super sexy dance or what? Let's be honest. There's tons of different styles of it. There's tons of different kinds of dances, but yes, super sexy.

Even when it's like ugly, out of shape people, it doesn't matter. It's very sexy. I'm going to put that out there. Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah. So, but yeah, dancing is incredibly connected to it. Try to dance.

Jonathan. Yeah. Give it a go. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, just, you know, in general, like, think about, and a lot of times people say, like, I can't dance or I, I've never said that because, I mean, not to say that my dancing in the clubs over the years has not received any awards. I can tell you that has been probably pretty mediocre.

but the kind of dancing you need to have as a musician, like that's always come somewhat naturally to me, but I don't think it's come any more naturally than most people. It's just nobody ever told me don't do that. That's the key. So like don't tell your kids, like you can't dance, you can't feel music, you can't be an athlete, you can't do. You know, like there's plenty of elements in the world

that are going to tell them they can't do things. But all of these things, like we get so caught up, especially now in like our just hyperactive and Uber achievable. oriented societies where it's like you have to specialize in these the one thing that you're really good at and I don't believe in that like I think that first of all what we're talking about now I think that you have to be able to totally dance on a certain level to be able to play this music and just yeah totally experience what it is in totality you get to see certain aspects of the groove think of yourself is a

different different than the world and maybe your parents and maybe your friend or even spouse thinks of you like you're not good at this I mean I hate it when I'm sorry to cut you on but I was just thinking about something I just heard somebody say And people are very thoughtful when they say, I don't hate the people. I just hate the message and like the repetition of it like, well, we're not, nobody's musical in our family. I'm like, really? That's like saying, nobody breathes in our family. We're not big into oxygen.

I know. You know what I mean? It's like, no, it's, I mean, maybe there's no apparent musical genius in your family. There isn't in mine either. But it's like there, but there is, there's musical sensitivity that we all have. Yeah. You know what I mean? Heather says the same thing.

I don't have a musical ear and then she'll sing something like really pretty much in tune. I'm like, I think you do, though. Right. You just, you don't have a developed musical, like you haven't spent hours doing it. Yeah. I mean, it's just like people saying, like, I'm not good at foreign languages. Well, you may not be as good as someone that it just comes totally naturally, but you could learn a point.

Now, you might be the worst than the world at learning it, but you could still learn it. Or to say, like, I have no rhythm. I can't dance. It's just not, it's just you're just unfamiliar. Exactly. I mean, you can tap your foot. And by dance, let's just say, we mean, it's like you don't have to learn specific dance moves or steps. This is about just using your body to

be able to connect with the music and to connect with the group because when you combine that with these other elements of connecting with your instrument and being able to play these like that's when I think the magic starts to happen and it starts to get a little bit easier but Jonathan all of these things language dance those are all just different ways to connect with your inner sense of rhythm yeah and and you think like oh but I was hoping for like a rhythmic exercise no no no no this is what you should be working on yeah like if you want to get good at that having the confidence to realize like when I see people in a ballroom dancing a waltz, I can, I can kind of see like,

I know how I would solo with this. Like I can see where this groove lies. The musical manifestation of what that looks like, what that sounds like, your connection with that. When I go to another country that has a completely different language than me, you can hear their music in the way they talk almost. Like you can hear how it should be phrased.

I remember going to South Africa and like listening to people, speak Zulu and then listening to Zulu choirs is not that much different. I know. And there's so much rhythm built into that. Oh my God. And the pitch too, the pitch, the rhythm, the phrasing. It's actually, it just, it spills out. There's almost, there's a very blurred line there.

And I think sometimes we think like, well, that needs to be a blurred line or it needs to be a solid line here between this. But this is cultural, man. And so just immerse yourself as much as you can. And allow who you are to come out in that. It doesn't, you're not going to sound like Jimmy Smith. Right. don't talk like Jimmy Smith and you don't dance like Jimmy Smith.

Allow the Jonathanness to come out in your rhythm. Absolutely. Well, this is good stuff. Thank you, Jonathan. And a reminder to everybody, please go to you'll hear it.com. Certainly to ask your question via our advanced speak pipe internet technology system, but also to leave a testimonial. And we keep saying testimonial. Maybe that sounds too fancy.

It's a story. Tell us your story. You'll hear it story. And you know what? After you record it, I think you have up to five minutes, but don't feel like you got to use that. Do two minutes. Do whatever you want. Whatever your heart speaks, you'll have a chance to review it and be like, ah, I don't like the way I sounded.

But you'll have that opportunity, so don't feel like you're locked in. But please do that because we have an exciting episode coming up soon with all of your stories. It'd be great, man. Can I put my, I'm going to call up to speak pipe and put my story. We've done your story like three or four times. I have. That's true. That's true. All right. Till tomorrow, you'll hear it.