You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Herbie Hancock's Greatest Era Is Not Even Jazz?

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Does it get any better than that ARP bass line on “Chameleon”? That’s right, it’s Herbie time! Join Peter and Adam as we explore Herbie Hancock’s explosive breakout from Blue Note jazz man to platinum-selling Headhunter. Transport your ears to an afro-futuristic daydream as we dissect Herbie’s funk-jazz era – and the cast of characters that helped push jazz records back onto the Pop charts. You’ll hear stem breakdowns of Paul Jackson’s brilliant bass grooves, the magic of Mike Clark’s “Oakland sound” drums, and, of course, much geeking out over Herbie’s mind-bending synth and electric keyboard experiments (excuse our stank-faces). From Fat Albert Rotunda (1969) through the slept-on Sunlight (1978), we ask: is this Herbie at his greatest?🟠 Open Studio Members → Nerd nook ABOUT OPEN STUDIO------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the premier online jazz education platform, with an ever-expanding course library and 20,000+ members, Open Studio (OS) has everything you need to excel and thrive on your jazz journey.Featuring everything from beginner to advanced lessons, engaging courses from A-list instructors, step-by-step curriculum, real-time classes and a thriving and incredibly supportive community, OS is the perfect platform to level up your jazz playing, whether you’re a total beginner, or an advanced pro-level improvisor.Try OS Membership today! → https://osjazz.link/about

Yo, Peter Martin. What's up? What's the greatest baseline of all time? Greatest baseline of all time is, survey says. It's good pick, but incorrect. Bob DeBoo, what's the greatest baseline of all time? A pocket pick, but also wrong. Caleb Kirby, what's the greatest baseline of all time?

Correct. Manis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Music. Explore. It's brought you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJaz.com for, oh, your jazz lesson.

You brought it back. I brought it back, Peter. I brought it back. Oh, I brought it back. It's back. That was fun playing a little chameleon in the open with the Great Bob the Booth. Great record. Backy and black.

What? Echo chameleon. Oh, sorry. Now, today, man, I am. Energy is high today, Peter, because we're talking about Herbie Hancock's greatest era. And what's so funny is Herbie's had a lot of great eras. Yeah, actually maybe four or five. Yeah, I know.

And this is this even jazz. this great era that he's playing. And we could talk a little bit about that. Yes. I know. And no. But it is stunning. So we're really talking about Herbie's headhunters era, and that could be disputed about when that starts.

And some people have a clear delineation, but it's a little bit more blurry as we're going to talk about. 1973 to 1978 is what I'm counting. Okay. And we can talk about the arbitrary delineation. So no, not inclusive of such hits as Rocket or VSOP2. Yeah, we're going to take that off the table, rocket. But we are going to start with Herbie's solo career, starting off with his first Blue Note album in 1962.

What I want to do here is just set up Herbie as a young musician up into the point of 1973 when The Headhunters, which was his sort of jazz funk explosion happens and why that matters. But if we start with his first Blue Note album taken off, and this is drifting from that album. It's gorgeous. One of the few... I'm not mad at RVG for this one.

I kind of like the sound on this one. The piano sound, I should say. Killing. Next up, we're going to just take a brief sample of some of these albums, not all of them, but we'll hit some highlights here. This is from 1964's Imperial Isles, which we've talked about on the podcast before. This is I Have the Hurricane.

So we've got a classic blue note sound throughout these. Freddie Hubbard here on the trumpet. We could actually do a whole podcast on the early Herbie Blue Note era, and we will at some point. It's so good. One more highlight here. This is 1965's Canelope Island from Maiden Voyage. Ever heard of it? Tony on the snare drum, interesting syncopation.

During this whole time, Herbie's playing in Miles Davis's band. Part of that second great Wintet. Shout out Jeff Goldblum playing piano on this track, killing him. Sorry? It's Ryan Gosling. Man, interesting thing about that, Tony, so the syncopation, the backbeat on the snare drum, Do da, tat, it's not tack, is, cat, it's on that end of two and the end of four,

until he gets to the end of the bridge, which is so, so genius. Yeah, that whole run there, his early run with Blue Note is absolutely brilliant, especially if you're a straight ahead, acoustic jazz fan. Which we are. Which we definitely are. But we love sort of era number two.

After the towards the end of the miles run, Herbie leaves Blue Note, heads to Warner Brothers, and he starts a collection of musicians that will be later kind of morphed into Mwandishi. Mwandishi. Mwandishi. Mwandishi. And one of our favorite highlights here is 1969's Fat Mama from Fat Albert Rotunda.

Whole different vibe. We're into a new thing. Buster. It's Buster Williams on the bass, Tudy Heath on the drums. Joe Henderson on the reeds Garrett Brown on trombone Johnny Cole's on trumpet

What was it 69? 69. Shit is banging, man. Yeah. We got the Fender Rhodes in play. I think it might be Wawa. Love these variations of him coming down. Each one's a little different.

But this is going to hint at what's to come. Johnny Cole's on trumpet. A. Great sound. A key Jared Vamp. If this is like solo piano what everybody's playing here. It's a Herbie Hancock, though. I'm sorry.

But I died. Yeah, 1968, super interesting time for a young musician. Obviously, so much is changing so fast. We're two years out of the summer of love. And we got... What was that? 67. Oh, that's 67?

Yeah, there's always that... Interesting. My sister, the great Nancy Martin, was born in 1967. Oh. Bill and Rose, taking it literally. Summer Love for no reason. So then now he's, like, fully in two. with Warner Brothers, the M.1 Dishi era,

and then he moves to Columbia. And he records a great album that is the album that happens right before he forms the headhunters. Herbie describes this period as like the music, you know, Fat Albert Tundra, what we just heard, light, funky, beautiful. But the music starts getting heavier and heavier and heavier.

He starts to incorporate more sense. He's not playing the sense on this. This is from Dr. Patrick Gleason on the ARP-2600 and the ARP pro solo is. Jackie Gleason's son. little known fact, probably not true fact. This is Rain Dance from Sexton, 1972. That's Eddie Henderson, right?

Is that what we have here? Yeah, Eddie Harrison on... I'm sorry, Eddie Henderson on trumpet. We've got Benny Maupin on Saps, which we'll come back to in a minute. Julian Priester on trombones, Buster, Williams on bass guitar and double bass, Billy Hard on drums,

Buck Clark on percussion, Herbie doing a bunch of stuff, clapping at piano fender roads some synth stuff the meat of the synth stuff is the Patrick Gleason which Herbie talks about and he would eventually take that roll over yeah but as you can hear Peter this you might not hear on an R&B station

on a pop radio station not that Kirby cares that much about that part of it but he describes that period as things were getting very heavy The music was like really intense all the time. And he just wanted to lighten it up. And so he started a new group in 1973. He kept Benny Maupin, saxophonist from the previous Sexton record, but added Oakland bass phenom Paul Jackson.

He added Detroit's own Harvey Mason. I believe it's Detroit's own Harvey Mason on the drums. Studio King, Harvey Mason, Bill Summers on percussion. Bill Summers, very interesting character. And then they record what would become to be known as the first Headhunters album, and we know it's called that because it is called Headhunters. Correct. The first track is a bit of a banger.

Ever heard of it? A little lighter, a little bouncier, a little funkier. Benny Moppin on the saxis. Using all kinds of effects is that effects that would become... staple of this era. And isn't that Herbie playing the melody with him on the ARP? Yes. Benny underrated source of inspiration, I think, for Herbie,

during this time. Was he kind of the connection between the M1D sheet? Yeah. And all into later eras, too. Benny hangs out for a while. We're just riding this group for a while, man. Now, interesting thing to note is the bass sound. Yeah.

That's a synth bass sound. That's an ARP odyssey. Oh, it's that they are. Okay. So we do have Paul Jackson in the Headhunters, but this is a sound that you can recreate on the synthesizer. Beautiful sound. Here's Herbie on the Headhunter's success.

You know, there's a newfound success for you that's happening right now. And I'm sure you're aware of it. As a matter of fact, your latest album has really taken off all over the country. This is Al Gee. I guess you're kind of pleased about that. Rapp and Rhythm, 1974. Stunned. You know, there's been a lot of music.

that Herbie Hancock has given to the world. Was he reading his name? This latest album that you have is doing quite well. Did you expect it from this one? Or is it the sort of thing where every album you do, you expect it to take off? Banger. I never expected to have any of my albums to take off like this.

You know what I was hoping for for this album? I was hoping to sell 75,000 copies. I said, if it sells that, I'll be happy. I'll be happy with that. It would be happy. and it sold over 300,000 copies. Amazing. Herbie, we say we take a break right now,

and let's listen to some of your previous music. Yeah, that's cool. It went on to sell a million copies. It went on to be the very first platinum selling jazz album. Oh, is that true? And yes, it was the first one. Certified platinum. And with that success, Herbie took this and ran with this Headhunter sound,

and we all got the benefit of it, because we get a series of amazing albums after this. this, all with that funky sound. One more time. So that's Chameleon, again, 1974, what we just heard. And here's 1964. He's just 10 years earlier. 10 years later. Whole other place.

You know what I mean? Just like in a completely different era. And so this would start to define, I think, this 1974 Headhunter's album is the start of Herbie's greatest era, in my opinion. And that will continue on with the next album, which is probably my all-time favorite album

of the 1970s. And that's a big flag I'm planting. Yeah, because I see one a little later that... They're all good. I know. I've heard you just refer to as the same way. But it's hard to argue with thrust because thrust has actual proof.

Just before you do that, I once want to throw it because I'm shocked by this. Headhunters hit number 13 on the Billboard Pop charts. Is that correct? 100%. It was a hit on the Billboard pop charts, the Billboard R&B charts, the Billboard Jazz charts, and the Billboard Latin charts.

Of course. Do you know why? Why? Because it contained a song called Watermelon Man that was a hit a few years prior for Mongo Santa Maria. And so it was a hit on the... The watermelon man.

The version of Watermelon Man, though, on Headhunters is way different, but... Who-hee, hoo-he-hoo-he-hoo-he-ha. Unbelievable. Unbelievable track. Shout out. Yeah, Bill Summers, shout-out. But, as I was saying,

the reason why Thrust is amazing because actual proof is on thrust and actual proof sounds like this. What in the What in the hell is going on here? This is the Oakland sound, Peter. I don't know if you know that or not. That's what they call the Oakland sound.

The Oakland sound, right? Of course. Mike Clark. And Paul Jackson. So let this one play for a pit. That's the Chicago Key sound. Do you play this one? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I've butchered this. You got to live with it for a while. That verb on that word. Everything is dialed in, man. This is more. aggressive record in a lot of ways than headhunters. Ben, Herbie's...

Great road solos all the time. Not the greatest. We'll talk about the greatest later. I love the way he comes. It's like, it's like he walks in the room. He's like, what's up, everybody? He's like, Ron was just here. He was telling me, yeah.

Classic Herbie. It's the same. These little motifs that come along. They make. Check out, though, Peter, check out on this road solo. Check out how Herbie plays the form. This is something I noticed a long time ago.

He highlights the form. Yeah. All the hits. Play the hits. Man, Paul Jackson is super obtrusive. We talk about that in a second. In a good way. Woo.

Oh. He got that from Herbie. Playing the hits. Playing all the hits in the song. That's an amazing moment. You know? They're light on their feet on this. Anything about them keeping the form so well.

The forum is super hard, super weird, and like, nothing, like, they make it sound so natural. Like, the whole thing is like, what? They anchor the audience to it too, though, because it is a little bit strange for even our ears. They keep, like, in his solo, he anchors us to the form in a way that when I was, like, transcribing this a long, long time ago, I was like, oh, he's like really highlighting the parts of the form that keep the tune together. Yeah, he's not just playing through them and trying to make something cute out of them. He's, like, spoon-feeding them to you and then doing some crazy stuff around them that leads up to them. And that was a real lesson. I think this is actually Herbie at his most virtuosic.

This whole album, Thrust in 1974, is Herbie... Just for straight up keys. It might be his apex. Like, it's just... For keys playing, like, his chops are in an insane place. He's obviously super inspired by this band. So we mentioned that Harvey Mason was on the previous album, Headhunters. Harvard Mason, very busy studio drummer, so couldn't join the band officially.

but Paul Jackson had a friend from Oakland, from the Bay Area, a drummer named Mike Clark, and so Herbie asked Mike to be in the band. Mike is like a bebop drummer in Oakland wanting to do that primarily. But has this vibe with Paul Jackson. And there's this sound coming out of Oakland Tower. Power coming out of Oakland, like these great bands

that sound a lot like that. Slide a family stone on the Bay Area. And like this sound, I think, defined this, 1974 and on. And there's a lot of great lore around actual proof, the tune we just heard. You know, this was on Columbia. And apparently the record execs did not like this sound because it sounded really scattered. They wanted a more commercial sounding version of actual proof.

And Herbie said, let us do one take the way that we want to do it. And if we can't get in one take, we'll do it your way. And they nailed this in one take. The words of Frank Sinatra. I'll do it my way. Mike Clark says when I got with Herbie, I was able to unleash all of my ideas that I've been developing. It was like I was born for that band. Let's hear a little bit of the actual proof drum split, Peter. Just the drums. That bass drum pattern, a lot of variety in a damn.

Mike Clark mentions Bernard Purdy is an influence for this and just taking that idea and running with it. I love that it's just like... Look at that go. Boom, bon, bong. I love that you can hear there's this push and pull to the time, too. It's not this metronomic thing that's been quantized to death. It has this life that's... It's not like he's missing stuff or it's bad time. It just feels like a human being is playing this. Very incredible, very precise drumming,

but it's still has this looseness to it. I hear pretty purdy for sure. Also Tony. Yes, William's. For sure. A lot of like that snare drum stuff. Here's just the bass. Paul Jackson. One of the great dynamic duos of the entire 1970s.

By the way, they put out an amazing V8 tape in the late 80s, early 90s, I think. Beta or VHS? VHS. And you can find that on YouTube, just YouTube, Paul Jackson and Mike Clark. And it's just the two of them being like, I don't know, here's how we be funky. And they just play like that. And you're just like, okay, that's really funky. Can I tell my Paul Jackson story now? Or you want me to save it? No, you got it.

Okay, so Paul Jackson, super nice guy. This is like 1998, maybe, or somewhere in the late 90s. Damn, you're old. Yeah, exactly. I was kind of old dead. I wasn't a spring chicken then. Going to Japan, flying on Japan Airlines, J-A-L, with Brian Blade, Christopher Thomas, Joshua Redmond, Peter Bernstein. Drop some names down there. Shott, names of my friends. So this was the Joshua Redmond Quintet, I guess, at the time.

We're going over to do a little Japan tour. There's a gentleman on the airplane, American, who I don't know how we struck up a conversation with him. And he's like, oh, yeah, because he's like, you guys, musicians, a band or something. And I said, yeah, you know, we're doing this. He's like, oh, I know about you guys. I'm Paul Jackson. I was like, holy shit, the Paul Jackson? And he's like, oh, no, you know, I'm just Paul Jackson.

And so we get to talking and he's been living in Japan for a while then. I think he was married to Japanese woman. And I mean, like living there because we're on the plane. And then he's like, he's super like outgoing like the flight attendants. He's like, man, I know these musicians. And he starts talking to Japanese to the flight attendants. Wow. Was that your Japanese there?

You can't. Don't let me got to gozamos. That's good. Yeah, that's all I know. But yeah, so then he's like, man, how long are you guys going to be in Tokyo? And we're going to be there like six days. Oh, man, we got to hang out. I'm just like, oh, man.

So he invites us, this was like early in the days of the Apple store. Okay. In fact, there might have, I don't think I had been in one. So exciting. Yeah. And so he's like, man, you guys, we're going to go to the Apple store. So, you know, I'll meet you guys there tomorrow at 11 o'clock, all right? And then I'll take you to get some food and stuff.

We're like, oh, wow. And so we go there and he's like, we're looking at all this stuff. He's super like talking to people in Japanese and introducing us. super outgoing and I remember he did a funny thing he's like what's the name of your guy's new record and I don't know whatever record we had out at the time I think it was like freedom of the groove or something and he went around to like every computer in like the display area and like pulled up that record on like whatever it was it wasn't even iTunes it was just some like picture of it yeah on each of the before we left and he's like this is good to promo your stuff while you're in town you know

wise dude Paul Jackson but he took us to eat and and hang he came to the club and super nice get So next up for this band after Thrust, which by the way, we could listen to all of Thrust, but we're going to move quickly through Thrust so that we can get to some other albums here because this entire run, I think, is S-tier for runs. Speaking of S. Yeah.

Okay, we'll get to that. Just save it. Put it in your pocket for now. Next up is 1975's Manchild. Probably the sleeper hit of all of these. This might be the one that most people don't think of, but this is just an incredible, funky album. We got Waba Watson on guitar here.

We've got Dwayne Blackbird McKnight on guitar as well on this album. We got Stevie Wonder's horn section as well. Bud Briss Boas. Like Song of the Keys of Life here. Jay Deversa, Garnet Brown, others. Same band, though. Mike Clark? Yeah, I think so.

A lot of horns on Man Child. some influence there Paula Watson undeniable force of this sound so again we could play that whole album Man Chai we'll put a bespoke playlist together of all of these albums

so yeah Herbie working with Wawa Watson Herbie says he brought this incredible sonic palette that transformed how we approach the music it wasn't just guitar it was like having another synthesizer in the band

and when your name is Wawa Watson you're bringing the Wawa skills I'm sorry but you're known Does he bring us pedal with him? He brings that pedal everywhere. He sleeps with the pedal under his pillow. Yes. But incredible, incredible album, Manchild. And next up, keep going. I can, well, we're going to say a little prayer here because, as we all know, this next album, 1976, is, you know, saying it's important to me is a little bit of

an understatement. It's not like I carry a four-foot tall photograph of the cover with me wherever. Oh, yeah, no, I do. I do carry a four-foot. foot tall cover of this album. This is 1976's Secrets. I found this in a bin, in a Borders, and I didn't know what I was listening to, and I fell in love that very day, and particularly

with this song. Oh, yeah. This could have been the soundtrack to an ABC movie of the week, Sunday night. James Levy on the drums, Ray Parker Jr. on guitar. Yeah. Another Stevie collaborator from right around that time. Kenneth Nash on percussion. Secrets is a commercial push.

Yeah. Trying to get some hits going. A little bit of disco creeps into secrets as well. The mix is super, and master is super polished too. Sounds unbelievable. Fucking unbelievable.

Excuse my French. Hey. Still Benny Mopping on the saxphones. Still Paul Jackson. There's a lot of really artistic flares to this record, though. You're riding around in the summer? Maybe you've got the top down,

maybe you got the windows open. You got your dots in. On 7-10. I'm on M.M. Road. I am. And then County Road. I'm going down in Delmar, my mom and the Dotson, maybe having some fast food and then throwing the trash out the window.

We don't care. It's the 70s. That's what you did. That's what landfills were for. A-track. This wouldn't have been the A-track time. Gentle thoughts from secrets. We got a little more secrets on the way here.

Ray Parker Jr. said working with Herbie was like going to school. Even when we were making what some people called commercial music, the harmonics is, sophistication was still there underneath. And I think all of secrets captures that, that gentle thoughts, man. We should play that on the way out. Let's do that on the way.

We'll do a long version of that. So for some people, Peter, they say this is the end of the Headhunter's era. I firmly disagree. I firmly disagree. The next year they would record another album that wouldn't be released until 1978. It is fully in the disco vein. It's called sunlight. It's got Herbie on the cover with a giant butterfly collar.

open, a really great suit, a gold medallion, looking every bit of like a disco star that he is at the time. And there's a lot of interesting things going on in the sound. First of all, there's a track, did you know this is a track with Jocko and Tony Williams? No. Yeah, good question. And it's Herbie's first use of a new instrument for him. He was very good at him. The Vocoder. This is the title track, Sunlight. Oh. How great is that sound, man? Man, I've listened to this track

It's so long. It's so good. I haven't on vinyl. It's amazing. There's so much killing stuff on sunlight. I think this era extends to there. This is the vocoder on its own.

Mmm. For you only have to try don't give me. So the way this works is it's not like a talk box like you would see Peter Frampton use. Yeah. It is a microphone.

phone that Herbie is singing into, speaking into, and it's going through a synthesizer. Right. So it's affecting it that way. With a keyboard, right? With a keyboard, yeah. So it was a relatively new invention here in 1970s. It's almost like, I could totally be wrong on this, but my recollection is that it is, it's like somewhat of the equivalent of like pitch correction in that it's going to go with, it's going to line it up with the exact notes that are being played there. Yeah. It's almost like an organic, um, pitch. correction. It's, in a beautiful way, though.

You should be an engineer. No, I should not. Because that's exact, no, I don't know the science behind. Herbie has always been a technologist, though, of interest. Like, he's always been interested in the latest technology up until this day. I know. Like, that's just always been a hobby. And the way that he brings that in with music, what's interesting is this record,

you've got it here as reaching number 12 on the jazz album charts. So I'm assuming that means it did not quite crossover into the pop or R&B charts as they might have wanted to in terms of commercial appeal. I don't think it was as big of a hit as they probably thought it was going to be. And maybe, I mean, I might be reading something as I don't know. Headhunters might have been the biggest of all these. I believe it was. Which is amazing.

Yeah. And I think, you know, producer Kayla would say that this era even extends all the way to 1982's. Mr. Hens, I think 82's, Mr. Hans. Mr. Hans. Because then Rock, it was like, wasn't that 82 or 83? Yeah. So I might have my dates mixed up. But Mr. Hanz, great album, little flamingo on the cover.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incredible album. But I don't put it in this era because it's a little bit more. That kind of stands on its own, I'd say that. Yeah, it's like a little... Because rocket's another thing. Agreed. And he was doing like VSOP, too, I think came out around, like he was starting...

I mean, he always was doing straight ahead too, but... There was more straight ahead by the end of the 70s, for sure. Peter, what about your... Let's do some categories here. So, Desert Island Tracks, what do you got? Well, I don't know if you have this one up there, but I was thinking of Swamp Rat. Peter, that... Sorry.

No, you're... No, I'm so touched that you would even say Swamp Rat. Oh, do you have that on there? I just do that. I've got everything everywhere, Peter. Everything everywhere. But, you know, the fact that you would pick a song from secrets, it warms my heart. I was not expecting this from you, man.

I'd be on the beach, like, dancing. You and I are better friends leaving this podcast and going in. That's saying something. This has one of the great moments in 1970s history, in my opinion. That first drum philip. Like, there's nothing on here where I'm like, this is Herbie's greatest play. I don't know why this is my Desert Island track. I know why?

Give it time. Give it a minute. No, of course. Oh. Secrets might be the best sounding one of these. That's so good. It's so... Gosh dang good.

Paul Jackson. Again from Secrets, Peter. Great Desert Island pick there. Incredible stuff. So I just, I don't want to be toot in my own horn because, you know, I do love secrets. But that's both of our Desert Island tracks are from Secrets because I picked. Oh, yeah. I know where you're going.

Oh, actually, sorry. I picked Spankly. I picked one from thrust. That's my name. That's okay. You like that, too. Dang it. I should have picked one from secrets.

Oh. Oh. I could listen to this every day for the rest of my life. I don't know why, but spankly to me is... That would make it a desert island. I know. You would literally be listening to it every day. Only this.

Just getting ready for work. Putting on my... Where are you going to work? An Oxford button down. Going to work here. The desert island? I'm work remotely. getting hyped up.

Yeah. Seriously, I do want to give a shout out here to an old friend Jason Van Diemen, bass player who now lives in Florida, but I had a dingy basement in Kirkwood we used to rehearse in. When my sophomore year in high school, we had a funk band, and we covered spankally.

And we would just listen to these albums, all of these albums on vinyl, and a lot of Stevie Wonder, and a lot of meters and stuff like that, and some John Coltrane. And, you know, he was a little older and, like, shout out to older, musicians who are like, hey, check this out. You know what I mean? You should learn Herbie's

solo on actual proof. You should check out what Herbie does on Spankalee. Like, you need some older folks to kind of guide you in the ways of some of this stuff. Yeah. And yeah, shout out Jason Van Demon. That's awesome. Apex moment, Peter, where you got? Well, I'm going to probably go back to just console my mind, actual proof, Herbie's solo. I mean, we listen to it. Incredible. There's like four different places that are like the great thing about those apex moments, you could say like the last kind of time he just goes net goes s tier or whatever it's incredible but each one kind of builds and it's sort of like it's like this it's like waves coming in you know what i mean and it just continues on and i think for this whole period i just think like because herbie

the interesting thing i think like especially on roads and just keyboards in general he was often sullen on a roads he plays different than he does on piano like we all do but he does more so i thing for some reason. He really leans into like the percussive elements of that and he takes maybe some of the negatives in terms of playing in that style where you can't be as nuanced and like volumes and all

his amazing touch. He doesn't worry about it than that. He just sort of changes his thing up, you know. Would you say greatest electric pianists ever? Him, Stevie. I have to put him a little above Steve. I mean just as that, well, George Duke. Yeah, George Duke. Joe Sample. You got to put Joe Sample. Chikerea.

Yeah, you got to put chick in there. Yeah. I mean, Herbie's, I don't think you put anybody above him. I put him in that group. So it's funny. So my apex moment. Joe Zovinal. You got to include Joe.

So my apex moment is another road solo. It's from Greg Fillengaines. Greg Filinganes is in the group. I have another road solo. This one is from Secrets. This is from People Music. And it's a little more subdued than the actual proof solo. But the moment where it kicks in is one of my all-time apex moments.

It's about two and a half minutes into the song. A little breakdown. folks, he just, he just realized what's about to happen. High fives and cigars all around after that one. Man, for sure. That's a great one. That's a perfect one.

And I mean, it's all that buildup. You know what I mean to it? That's the whole moment is the buildup. It doesn't work without about 90 seconds of just like, big, beautiful synth pads and percussion. That's what percussion.

You want to add a little sheat? You want to add a little pizzazz? No, no. I'm serious. You want to add some sparkle to your live show? Get you a good percussionist. That's right.

Good percussionist in the comments. shout yourselves out because you do, you're often overlooked, but you are essential to adding some really good sugar to the show. So thank you. Peter, what do you got for a bespoke playlist title? I have a crappy one, so give me yours.

I came up with something. I've got Afro-Futuristic Daydream. So the cover of these are all this afro-futuristic inspired art. They're unbelievable, especially those headhunters. Thrust has the cover with just Kirby and a spaceship

controlled by a... It's like a ball and it's controlled by a round keyboard. Caleb, can you put that up? It's like a drawing. Dude, it is so incredible. My other playlist title would be synth space funk. Since space funk.

Because of that specific cover. Right. I'm a funky vamping in the 70s. Forget that, but I'm thinking something like, would you say, forget it. I'm thinking something like Herbie, you know, Herbie's side departure. Forget it.

I like yours. Let's keep going. What's up next? Up next, I've got Stevie's songs in the Key of Life. I think it's the perfect, the perfect pairing to this. Yeah, and that's right in the middle of this period. I've got Mysterious Traveler Weather Report a little earlier,

or it could be any kind of like Birdland Weather Report, but I like Mysterious Traveler. I think that's like a lot of cool early Zavinal sounds and then him at the roads and obviously, Wayne Shorten that connection with Herbie, that's always a nice counterpoint going there. Quibble bits, just not funky. No, I'm just kidding, of course.

I really have no quibble bits. This is one of my favorite eras in music history. This is my favorite artist in this era, So I have no, Peter's got a look on his face. I have a quibble bit. I have a quibble. You got bits to quibble? What do you got?

I got some bits to quibble. Herbie's barely playing piano on any of these records. Oh, give me a break. And I think he's one of the greatest just pianists. We, you know, talk about Keith Jared, Chick Correa, Joe Zavinal. But I mean, like, especially like Keith McCoy, Tyner. Keith McCoy, Chick, and Herbie to meet from this period, like guys that I got to meet and be around, some of which are still with us, but just got to know them.

on the records, such masters of the instrument, right? And so Herbie's incredible keyboard is. Probably top five on the keyboard, but there's no piano and I still think his piano playing is above his keyboard playing, as much as you can separate him. So that's a small quibble bit because, again, top five keyboardists,

you can't go wrong with that. To quibble your bit, you know, he was making like VSOP through this and some acoustic albums. I'm talking about stuff that's on this bespoke playlist. But he was giving you that in the 70s as well, but this, I don't know. I don't think the sound would have matched some of this stuff. So, no, no. I don't know. I'm saying with everything that we listened today,

the only quibble I has that we didn't hear him playing the piano. Assumee, I'm a traditionalist. Snobometer, what do you got? I got three. I've got four. Yeah, it's pretty accessible. Yeah, pretty accessible. Is it better than K.O.B.?

No. Yes. But what? Which one? The entire era. All of them. How can you compare an era to an album? Is Headhunter is better than K.

In my opinion, yes. Is Russ better than KOB? In my opinion, yes. Is Manchild better than KOB? In my opinion, no. Is secrets better than Kobi? in my opinion, yes, is sunlight better than KLB, in my opinion, no. Right.

Okay. So, but, okay. In general, yes. Wrong. No. Okuchamolz. I'm going to say seven. I like all these covers except sunlight.

Now, I remember when I first saw it, I was like, is he a, uh, is that's like, is this, Herbie as like, like, am I buying insurance from him? Is he a 70s used car salesman? What's going on here? I got 10 out of 10. The rest. This one's the best. This is incredible.

No, thrust is the best. But this is amazing. But this is amazing. But this is one of the, The greatest album covers of just somebody's face, 10. You know what I mean? And then, like, is he at the beach? He is at the beach.

The inside album covers, him without a shirt, kind of his arms crossed like this, and he's looking to the side. Right. And he looks incredible. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think 10 out of 10.

Okay, so please leave us a rating review on Apple. We're thirsty for comments on YouTube or Apple podcast or Spotify. Yeah, we do have another. You lap them up like a lap dog. Like a what now? A lap dog. We do have a comment here. Here's another comment on our previous Roberta Flack episode.

This is from Mike of Comics. Another, all caps, great episode with another great intro jam. And so good to learn more about this wonderful musician, Roberta Flack. This podcast YouTube channel gets better and better. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Mike. I've got a comment I want to read about the last episode. Okay.

This podcast slaps. Peter Martin, St. Louis. You can't comment on our own stuff. This is called self-commenting. Come on, man. Okay, self-awareness, self-commenting. I am somebody. Self-worth. Yeah.

Until next time. You'll hear it.