You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How Many Choruses Should You Take?

Episode Date: October 21, 2019

Today, Peter and Adam offer their advice on how many choruses to take in a solo, or if you should take any at all.Check out the course from Open Studio mentioned in this episode: Brazilian Jazz Piano, featuring Helio Alves.Like those You'll Hear It shirts Peter shows off on the podcast? Want some YHI swag of your own? Take a visit to our store! Just go to https://teespring.com/stores/open-studioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Adam. What? Is this thing on? Hello. Hello. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Daily jazz advice.

Coming at you. Our intros have started to like collapse upon themselves. I think we've done every possible witty intro. Whitty. Well, that's a broad definition of witty, my friend. And some others too. But you know what? I think tomorrow it's going to come back together.

I'm feeling good. Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, we can't have everything. All right. What are we talking about today? Today we're asking ourselves a question. Yes.

How many choruses should we take? Are we, is this a rhetorical question? I just want a number. I want to pay you to just tell me what to do. Four. Done. Okay. I would say like, you'll hear it.

I would say if we had to pin me down with a number, it would be four. But that's only, I mean, that would be your biggest, the largest probability of success. And I would only probably pin it at like 30 to 40 percent. of the time that that would work out well. Yep. But if you had to say a number. See, you thought you were being funny with asking. I know.

Yeah, you actually had a solid number, dude. Wow. A solid number by bad. No, I mean, I think, you know, the overall thing, the over under on this is something like three or four, because I'm a big believer in less is more when this comes to soloing in general. But we're going to go on a semi-deep dive. Like we don't like to say we're in the shallow end, but we're not in the deep end.

We're kind of in the middle lanes, right? Yeah. It's like four and a half feet. Four and a half feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My head's barely popping out above it.

It's all good. We can touch the bottom. We can... Hey, hey, hey. Speak for yourself. Okay, so how many choruses should you take? This basically, I think, a better way to think about this. We can definitely break it down by chorus, of course.

But the better thing is really how long should my solo be? Yeah, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's the bigger picture. A solo is normally made up of courses. Sometimes it's one course. Sometimes it's free, though. So there are some situations where you'd have how long.

function, my solo B, and there is no choruses. But that's kind of an outlier. Yeah, I mean, and this is where the number gets tricky, right? Because if you're talking about the fast blues versus, like, you know, love for sale in a slow, medium tempo, like it's going to be vastly different. Right. All right version of love for sale. Take one fourth of a chorus.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Go to the bridge. Yeah. But we love the first thing that we always say number one, because it applies so much, but today it really applies. Number one? Listen. Right.

Yeah. That's going to, that's going to frame this whole answer. Well, another thing. talk about often that I think applies to this is when we talk about like what voicing should I play and the answer is well that depends you know right what has happened just before and what's going to happen just after right I think this applies to how many courses how long should my solo be what has just happened where where are we at in the tune where we're at in the set where we're on the night

you know like if it's if it's the first tune of the first set yeah oh you can go long on that no no you don't want to take 32 courses the blues, right? Because you set the tone then, you're setting the standard at like, we're only going to play three tunes this set, basically. It's what you say. Right. Or, you know, it's just like, but it's more of a greeting that first one, right? So you definitely want to, like, kind of get in

and get out, play something fun, say hello to everybody in a musical way. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, unless it's like a, the vibe is super serious. I'm Adam, and I'm here to play some jazz. Yeah. But that might be different from the last tune of the night, the encore tune where it's like everybody's riled up and it's a big

fast one and it's just like, you know, I'm Adam and I'm done, peace. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I like this concept because it's really framing the how many choruses I should take way bigger than most people think about, like, on that tune. Maybe depending on what happened before or whatever. You're talking about what's happening on the whole night, keeping that in mind, the flow of the gig. You know how I like to do it, man.

I like to go out in scope and then bring it back in. So we can do it both. And then come and micro paint the little detail. Exactly right. Exactly. So no, but that's good because we have to. to look at the big picture first because that is always how the things inside of it fit into that. Because to the listener, like, you know, people come in to hear music. I was like to think

it's just like musicians listen to music when we're not being nerds and critical about it. Like when we just sit and enjoy something, that's exactly like a listener. And the more we get into a like, oh, but we know better. What do you know about drop twos? I don't know nothing, okay? Let's tell you the truth. But, you know, so the more we think about, now we may be more experienced listeners, but it really is no different in terms of like the enjoyment level. So the closer you can get to instead of thinking like trying to figure out what you think people would like, put yourself in the listener's shoes. That's right.

So that's why I always say like short, you know, it's not about, oh, should you play longer shorter? It's just for most people on most tunes, they, you know, there's a higher percentage of people playing too long. For sure. And then with really good players that are interesting, they usually play shorter. So it's like I would love for that to be reversed. I want to hear the good stuff for longer and the bad stuff for shorter.

You know, it's kind of like, it's like I want to get a great bottle of wine for $3. Not a crappy bottle of wine for $80, but that's how it goes down sometimes. But don't you think that the reason why the better players play shorter is because they know what they're saying more? Like, and not so good players are sort of searching. No, it's because shorter is better. Shorter is better than taller. I mean, longer. Sorry.

No, but, you know, I think about our. a friend Montes Coleman who says stuff like, well, if you're not playing anything, just get out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Hello. So you should assess like, are you playing anything worth going on? Because if you were, because to Montess's point, if you are playing, if you're saying something, you can keep going.

That's right. And people want to hear it. But if you're not saying anything with your solo, you got to have that self-awareness and keep it short, man. Right. So now we're getting into, so we've got the whole thing we're thinking about. Now we're getting into like the actual solo. And I love this because that's sort of like your first gate before we even talk about,

Well, are you developing it or whatever? Are you playing anything? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that's going to tell you right there. Forget about like what was played before and what after. If you're not even coming up to the level of playing something. I mean, I think by that he means, are you playing anything good?

Yeah, of course you're playing something. But are you adding to the vibe? Are you adding to the melodic? Are you doing something of interest? What he actually said was, are you saying anything? Are you saying anything? Right. So what I hear when he says that is is like, are you speaking to the people?

Like is it landing? Are you saying something worth hearing? exactly like what you're saying. But yeah, if you don't know if you are or not, you're not. Exactly. And keep it short. Does this blouse look good on me?

That's a rhetorical question. Yeah, absolutely. And so that, but I like that too because Montez is tapping to the thing I was talking about in far of we, the way we listen to it on the bandstand is the same way of really somebody who's, look, if somebody's in the audience on their phone

but I'm paying attention of course, then I hear. But somebody that doesn't have to be a musician, but just is listening, that's likely going to be very much in line with, like we might be a little bit more critical, but it's the same thing. Like, if they're saying something, it's going to be, like,

like there's situations where a really good player can go a little bit more into house mode, what we call, which is really about, like, trying to connect with the audience in a very sort of base level. But there's times when that's great, too. So sometimes we'll turn our noses up to that,

but I'm like, they're saying something. It might be, might not be the sophistication level that we think. But if it's what the music calls for, that's what's important, you know? So I think that's sort of the next level. The first thing is, are you saying anything? Because if not, get out.

Yeah. But then let's go with the assumption that you're saying something. Do you do the things I do sometimes as pianists? I think, you know, our natural human reaction is when someone who just played before us absolutely destroys the stage. Yeah. Is to be like, well, I'm going to. No, I try to distract everybody. I know.

Look over there. No, but so this is something we deal with a lot because we're usually not the first soloist we're playing with a big group, right? Right, right. Um, so something I don't, I see a lot of really good players do that I don't see a lot of intermediate and not very good players do is they'll just kind of skate and then let it go. Like you have the awareness that the peak of the tune is kind of happened. Yes. You know what I mean? And I can maybe get something, I can say something a little like as a period on that.

Right. But I'm not going to go 32 choruses on this guy. No. You know, right now. I'll save it for the next one. You know what I mean? Well, I think those situations sometimes, like if it's a really killing solo and the arc is kind of, uh, you've hit the mountain top and there isn't sometimes it's a feeling like you don't want to go back to the mountain

for sure sometimes you have that feeling like okay well now we can take our time and do this right but if you're not to me that would call for number of courses zero you could cue out yeah because just to ramble for one or two yeah yeah yeah because you're scared to mess up the vibe or no you can't equal that you know that's not usually what that moment calls for sure and so a lot of times people even when they think they're being humble you know just like a humble brag is not humble at all it's a it's a it's a cocky brag, actually. That's kind of the humble brag of like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I could, that's not

what the music, like, like, you're putting yourself ahead of the music. That's right. So when you see that happening, that's what I'm saying, is like, you could cue it out to something, or, or break it down, you know, to the basalt, or whatever, like, like, change the vibe. Yeah, you have more responsibly to change and say something profound. It doesn't have to be a mountain top

like that, but if you think about, like, how lucky is it, like, and I'm talking, like, true mountain top, that might only happen once or twice a night. For sure. So if that happens and it feels like it's time to sort of take things out, you know, put yourself behind the music. You know, we're always behind the music.

Even the person who plays goes up to the mountaintop. She's behind the music. So it's like you, the music just happens to go through her at that moment. That's great. But it's not about her. It's not about you. So how exciting is it when you hit that mountain top and then you take the head out and then it's done?

For sure. Because then it's still resonating. So that's a lot of times putting the ego aside. I like to just nod. And sometimes even people are, oh, you should have played. I'm like, no, the music didn't hear. I wanted to. I was inspired by what happened.

But the music, I knew it was going to be, if you can ascertain, like, what's going to be the strongest group statement on that tune and on that evening. Yeah. Then, man, when you get people thinking about that, cool things can happen. You'll get another chance on another tune. Totally. And there's like the flip of that, too. So another good strategy for this, if someone hit that mountain top or whatever and you want to kind of keep it going is, like, Like sometimes I'll immediately go into trading with the drums, right?

And try to, like, get that vibe happening. Because you can keep that energy up and it's different enough in timbre. And you don't have to arc the solo in the same way. You know what I mean? And it's a good sort of structural thing with the whole tune then in terms of the architecture. It's like a separate thing as opposed to like, oh, here's another soul. Because if you play a mediocre solo after a great solo, or even if you play a very good one and it kind of is not something architecturally setting it apart,

that some of the magic of that soul is lost. You still remember it. like you're hearing whatever's last in your mind is sort of what the listeners focused on it because our art is like linear like that it's moving. I feel like we moved into the deep end on this one man. We did. We're in the eight foot section. Should we stick us on the premium

premium feet only? I don't know about that. No it's not that good. Okay. No but it's a really interesting thing and I think what we're talking about and really talking through here is stuff that really good jazz musicians develop in innate sense of and it actually doesn't take like you will make mistakes with this sometimes and

miscalculated misjudge but the more experience if you're open and if you number one listen and really commit to that and also kind of listen back to how sets go how important is that like go to gigs and learn the good the bad and ugly what to do what not to do but also listen to your own sets and make sure things are going down the way you think they are because once you get to the point where you know during the moment oh this is what's going to okay oh, there, you know, she went there. So, okay, so I'm going to go here, or he went there, whatever. Like, you can start to sort of not predict and make it, you know, pre-planned,

but you can start to say, oh, I've got these different choices, which one's going to fit good? And there's usually more than one choice. But you can start to, like, really deal with different ways to approach things in a way that would be, you know, this would get into that area where you're talking about the whole set. Because sometimes later in a set, especially when you have, that mile on top. That's definitely a time not to meander. Maybe early. Like if somebody hits that mountain top on the second tune, sometimes a little bit of a me like the listener almost

needs that. You kind of always have to. You got to get it out. You got to clear their head for sure, for sure. So that's the fun thing. There's so many different choices with these things. And, you know, live recordings. Live performances, of course, are the best of kind of of other people because you can really sit there and sort of analyze the choices that are made. But great recordings. I mean, you can, you know, Miles Davis. I mean, we're not going to talk about the ones we usually talk about, but I'm thinking about like live of the Black Hawk. there's some very good choices made with how many choruses to play on that. And some people play long on that.

And some people play short. But, like, you've got some good choices there. And, yeah, it's an exciting thing because this is what really, we have our biggest thumbprint on a tune or part of a performance is like how long you're going to play as your part. And, you know, if it's a trio, everybody's got a big thing. If it's a big band, less so or whatever. Yeah. But this is a big influence we have.

I love it, man. Yeah. Well, okay, I'm glad we knocked that out. We just had an animal coming here. Did you know that? It was not a rodent as often. Odie's in the house. Odie's studio mascot.

We should have got Odie on the mic or something at least. Today's episode is sponsored by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJazz.com to check out all of our courses. What do you know about Brazilian jazz piano? Well, I know it's popping and I know I'm working my way through it. I haven't had the time I'd wanted to come here, Odie. Come here, Odie's scared now. Yeah, Odie's camera shy.

That's right. Hey, buddy. Odie comes to my house almost every evening for a treat. I don't know if you knew that. Oh, really? So he always gets confused when he sees me here. He's usually seeing me in my domicile with some nice trees for him. Yeah, go to Open Studio Jazz.

Check out Brazilian Jazz Piano. We've got a lot of fun stuff happening. This is going to be a fun month of new things. We've got the Jazz Piano Technique coming out soon. It's very brave of me and resilient of me to say that because we've only recorded part of it this morning, as a matter of fact. That's going to be so good. Jazz Piano Technique course is going to be a course designed around our guided practice sessions. GPS.

What do you know about that? Yeah. Well, it really is your compass to getting better as a player. That's a good tagline. That's a good tagline. Yeah, but no, we focused it on that because our members have just gone crazy, gone bonkers over this. They're like zombies at our windows scraping. Give me GPS.

No, but it's been fun. So these are times when you or I or other open studio artists actually take you through a practice session with different ideas where you can practice with us and we tell you what to practice. Then we get flexibility to and show you how to do it. But it's a little bit of hand. Handholding. It's almost like you could, you know, hire a private tutor to sort of take you through it. And then you learn some of those things and you can take it to further extending your practice. And we're kind of committing to adding this to, you know, all of our new courses and maybe even going back in time and adding them to some other ones. So be looking out for that. Imagine a guided meditation crossed with a Jane Fonda workout video crossed with Penny Green. Like an aerobics, like an 80s, Jane Fonda with the leg warmers? Crossed with Benny Green.

Benny Green. Like it. Like it. Love it. Well, until tomorrow. You'll hear it. Thank you.