You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How to Avoid Getting Lost - S3E38

Episode Date: February 20, 2019

Peter and Adam answer a SpeakPipe on how to avoid getting lost during a performance. Wanna send a SpeakPipe of your own? Check out the bottom of the page at http://www.openstudionetwork.com/podcastLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey, Adam. Where are we? I don't know. I'm lost. I'm Adam Mattis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear at podcast.

Daily, jazz advice coming at you daily. Coming at you from beautiful open studio. Oh, I'm lost. The camera's over there, buddy. Facing the wrong way. Facing the wrong way. Well, why are we talking about being lost today? Because we have a user question.

Listener question. A user. They're using us, man. They're using us. I really haven't really used lately. That's why I keep saying that. It's a nice hoodie you got on there. It's hoodie weather.

Boston University, BU. Yeah, big shout out to BU and Back Bay, Boston. Nice. Yeah. Alma Mater? No, no mater. No, no mater. It doesn't matter.

I don't have any mater either, yeah. Okay, so this is from Hui in, uh... Huie? Huie. It's spelled R-U-I. Isn't that all you? Yes. Who-I, I believe he's Portuguese.

Huey Lewis and the news. This is from Huey Lewis. That would be amazing. Would it so? I would want to ask Kim questions. That's right. About the production on sports. Okay, here we go.

This is Hue. Hi, guys. My name is Ruy, Portuguese piano player, although I'm based in Barcelona, Spain. And I'm a very big fan of you, here, the podcast. And I have a question for you. Well, a lot of them, but right now one. And the question is, how do you not get lost? How do you avoid getting lost?

playing in a tune while soloing on a tune when you are not actually executing the chord changes. I mean, you start your solo, you get excited, you start developing melodic ideas and so on. And naturally, I think that happens to everybody, you stop counting, you know, one, two, three, four, now core change, now C7 to whatever. You know, and my question is, how do you get the feel of the song when you are not actually hitting the bass notes or the chord notes? How do you avoid losing the sense of the form, of the song form and know exactly where you are at each moment of the song? Thanks, guys. Cool. Thank you for that question. Hoi? Is that better? I didn't say it right at all. I didn't say it right either. We don't have that last, whatever that last syllable that he made.

I know. We don't have that in our language. No. No. So it's definitely not hooey. It's not Huey. It's not Huey. It's a noise I can't make. Thank you for the question. That's a great question. It is. Number one, listen. That's right. I mean, that's like the go-to. I can play out of time and out of the changes forever. because if I'm listening to where the bass player and the drummer are, or just the bass player, or maybe just guitar player, whoever you're playing with, if you listen to where they are, and if you're playing with good people, they should be making it pretty obvious.

You know what I mean? Like, they should be giving you some landmarks to grasp onto, unless you're just so sympathetico, unless you've been playing forever, and they know what you can do and what you can't do. You need to be listening to that form, listening for those changes, listening for the one, listening for the five,

listening for the drum, the drums, if it's a good drummer, we've talked about this before, they're probably marking the form for you, giving you the top of the form, giving you the top of a phrase. But the bass player is probably, you know, the first thing you want to listen to

because they're going to reveal hopefully some route for you at any time, and you should be able to hear that. And then, you know, I mean, I don't know about you, but I haven't thought about like specific changes like one, two, three, four, and in a long, long time. I hate changes.

Yeah, me too. But, yeah, you learn the changes when you forget them. I'm going to make a shirt that says that. Cassette edition. Cessette edition. Learn the changes and forget them. Don't steal that for me.

I'm actually going to do that. But you know what I mean? Like I'm thinking about colors I want to play, about sounds that I want to get. And then I'm, you know, I just intuitively know where I'm in because practiced being in the form for so long now. But I think the things you were just saying before this, you know, the drummer dropping a, not dropping a beat,

but hitting a section, the bass player hitting a certain harmonic thing. that delineates where the form is, I think if we think about those things as like markers or signposts along the journey. That's kind of how, like they're little mental clues so that it's not,

so that you start to like intuitively feel the form. I think that there's all different ways to get there. It's not just a matter of like you sit down and go, I want to feel the form. It's not that. And then repetition is certainly important. But as you're repeating something, you have to be thinking about,

I mean, really think, about it like you're going on a journey, a walk or a drive, and you want to get away from Google maps, you have to start looking for things, or maybe listening or maybe feeling or whatever, but there has to be something that makes, gives some order to the form, even if it's complicated, right? And rhythm section, folks, take note. I mean, pianist, you know, I assume that, that, you're afraid to even say it. I assume that he's a pianist, but maybe he's not. But bass players and drummers take note that when you give us these signposts, when you clearly delineate the form, you are giving us a very special gift of freedom to get away from it and to not have to think about it.

And as a- Freedom. George Michael. And as a pianist, like, I consider that my responsibility when I'm comping for a tenor saxophonist or a trumpet player or a vocalist to give them some kind of harmonic signals of where we are and where we're going, you know what I mean? Because I know that that gives them freedom. Well, so that's interesting because I was thinking about the other kind of samples, but I think this is great.

We're talking about two different kinds. They're both really important, and this is actually a good entryway, I think. So you're talking about actually in a live situation with other musicians, what they're playing to kind of mark where there is in the form, but there's also just the things that are built into the form, like a time when you go to an interesting change, a transitional thing, or like there's a break in the form, you know, those kind of things. Now, the musicians hopefully will play them also, so there's that kind of intercept. but I think that we can learn, even practicing on our own, the signposts of the form,

like you're going along in one key, and at a certain point, it maybe doesn't do a full modulation, but it kind of temperate, like I'm thinking about a standard tune where, like, all the things you are, it goes to G major at the tune's in A flat, right? Yeah. Okay, so it kind of goes to G at the bridge or whatever it does. Yeah, it does. Yeah, so like those little areas, like you start to say, okay, there it does it. And you don't want to necessarily be like the 16th bar, but you want to know what it feels

like along the journey that I'm going to see that sign there. And then that would also be the time that the drummer would be like, bam, or the bass player goes on and hits that. Yeah, I was more talking about, you know, the last bar going into Witten Kelly's solo on Freddie Freelder. Boom! Yeah. You know, like, that's a signpost for me. Like, now we're going

somewhere else. Yeah. We're at the top of something. To me, good drummers, good bass players, like a good bass player would never play the second at the top of a form on the court. You know, they would play the route, maybe the fifth if they're adventurous. But for me, if we're staying in the group. I mean, if we're playing music that's straight on the middle, then that would

happen. Yeah. But I think it is important to think about both, partly because it's easier to practice, of course, on your, I mean, we're going to spend most of our time playing and practicing on our own, but also not everyone is blessed to play with great players that are going to hit that at the right. They might hit at the wrong time. And if you don't know, if you don't have that internal signposts, you know, locator, you're going to get into trouble. But I think it's great to always have several different ways to go. about learning and hearing something because that's when you get to that point that you refer to about, you know, forgetting the changes, forgetting the form and just being free. You have to

have it internalized. And usually it's not just in one way. It's not like, okay, I know that it goes to the four chord on the sixth bar, like a real intellectual approach. That's fine. But then, but a real kind of esoteric approach. You need several different pathways there. Yeah, usually you can hear phrases. I mean, something I would suggest is to try singing the melody, your entire solo and your head on the way through. Yep. It's not going to be cumbersome. In fact, it could free you up even more.

Yep. And you could start to play actually pretty melodically. Yeah. That will help keep you together. And then, I mean, I don't know about you, but I feel even numbers, like I feel four bars and eight bars pretty clearly. Yep. Yeah. And I think, yeah, absolutely.

I think most people like that, I think when you, so then the question is like, what if the form includes, you know, odd bars, seven measure phrase or whatever. Yeah. To me, those are almost easier at this court because they sound different. Built in sign. Yeah, exactly. It's just another thing that you're learning, you know, a three, four bar or whatever. I'm like, that's the easiest thing to line up because you know that's coming. But that's what brings us to the next thing that I was thinking of in terms of how to avoid getting lost. And that is concentration. I think that there's all different ways to concentrate. But the great thing about this is something that you can practice and that you can improve. Sometimes we talk about kind of improving your ears or perfect pitch or relative pitch. That can be a harder thing. It can be slower. but concentration is something that everybody can work on. And I don't really think this is as much of a talent-based thing.

Do you think it is? It takes work. Yeah, it takes work. Whereas certain musical or athletic or intellectual things, we think more about you kind of are where you are. You can improve it within a range. But I think concentration is something that I've seen some people like make extreme improvements in.

And I know I have a different times where I've even surprised myself, but it does take work for sure. Well, I know that you've done some meditation practice as of I. And that really, really helps because you learn these techniques. Like I do this sometimes on a gig where, you know, like the meditation practice of just gently putting yourself back to whatever your attention is on, whether that's a mantra or a color or whatever your, whatever style of meditation. It's all pretty much the same thing. I was wrong at the beginning. We do say that. No, you know what I mean, though?

It's like that practice of focusing your attention once it goes away can be applied on the bandstand. And I will do that if I feel myself being like, oh, who just walked in? Or, oh, man, I'm hungry. or like, I can't believe that. I can't believe the guy played that. I hate playing with this guy. You know what I mean? Then I'll, I'll like, there are times, not all the time,

but there are times where I will be like, no, no, that's not what my attention should be on. Just gently go back to where it should be, which is what I'm my solo, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think that in terms of concentration, ways that you can work on that on your own or, you know, away from the piano,

a lot of them or away from your instrument in terms of meditation. But I think it's also like you have to give yourself, even if you're not in like a real active meditation. And look, it's such a great time, not because they've got these apps. Yeah, it's easy. And very simple ways. Don't feel like you have to go to, you know,

a guru in India, you know, to do a six-week program. I mean, that's great if you can do that. It's super easy. There's little things you can start today to start to improve it. And, but I think you can apply them very quickly to, I mean, the end result is, as you say, on the bandstand. And you always want to be thinking of that goal. But as you practice, you can kind of simulate some of that in that part

your practice where you're kind of pretending like you're performing. And just like in the meditation, the guided ones that I've done is they're always like, there's the assumption that your mind is going to wander at some point. I mean, that's part of it. That's part of it. It's like, how do you pull it back? Yeah. And that's just practice and repetition.

And then it becomes that you're able to control that a little bit better. I think that's an important part of it. Never ever think that your mind won't wander. You know, if your mind never wanders, congratulations, you're enlightened, right? Huh? I'm sorry. What were you saying? I'm a, come on, man. Man, I'm talking.

But you know what I mean? Absolutely. Happens us on this podcast a lot. Let's be honest. All the time. But unless you reach enlightenment, which no one ever really does, then your mind is going to wander. So having these tools to work on your practice are very helpful.

One thing that Kenny Warner talks about, of course, is like the guru of this for music. Is that if you're practicing and your mind starts to water, just get up. Just stop it right there. Don't practice if your mind is wandering. This is something you can control. There's no audience. You don't have to keep playing. Just get up and get in the habit of every time I'm at the instrument, I'm as

focus as possible. I love that too because exactly. That's what you can control. And you don't want to practice, you know, non-mindfulness as much as you can. When you're on the gig, you have to stay there. But you want the time that you spend. And look, just spend more time practicing, too. I mean, that's, you know, another thing.

People want to read about and talk about this stuff and listen to podcasts. Thank you very much. Yeah. Just play through the form with a metronome for a long time. Yeah. And look, if you practice it mindfully twice as much with some good breaks as, as, as, if you practice half as much, you're gonna get there twice as quick.

That's just kind of the way it works. So true. Yeah. Well, thanks for the question. Hu? That's not right. Could I get a little mindfulness on the way that you say that name?

I can't even... I honestly, I was concentrating on my vocal cords so heavily when I just tried to say that name and I still failed. I'm so sorry, man. Can I say one more thing about not getting lost? I know we're almost done. Okay. Sorry.

Because I think this is important. This could actually, we should come back to this because this is fun. It is fun. And this is, I think, useful. But internalize the first. form. I know we kind of talked about this before, but think about that as being a goal for your actual practice to prepare, to be mindful and to be on the gig and to be confident in knowing that you really know the form. So it's just like anything. I would say, when I say internalize the form, it's just learn the form. Some people say learn. But what I mean by internalize is so that we can get to that place that you mentioned at the beginning where you're not thinking about the changes. You're not thinking about what bar are you on because then you can play confidently. Like if you're thinking about, wait, is this the second A or the first? You're never going to be able to play. And not. At that time, you're not going to be able to be truly confident. There's all ranges in it.

But once you get to that point where you're confident enough to just like, you know what, I'm not going to think where I am, I'm just going to go with my gut feeling. And 99 out of 100 times, that's going to be the right place in the form. And you know what? The other time, that one out of 100 where I get lost, I'm going to use my ears and I'm going to be so mindful that I'm going to click back in. No one's even going to notice.

Well, that's what I was just about to ask you. I know you haven't probably gotten lost in the form since 1985. But when it does have. Actually, oddly enough. 85, I was clean. Whenever it does happen for the best of us, like what are some tips, what are some strategies to get back?

Listen, I mean, that's it. That's the biggest thing. Now, when that's the challenge is, in a way, is when you're playing by yourself, but then again, who cares if you get lost with your body, you can just say it's part of the arrangement, you know? No, but I meant to chop off those two bars. I think listen, but also I would say listen and relax.

Yeah. You know, and as pianists, we have an advantage because often, And look, I mean, I got lost. I did so many gigs last week. I got lost way more. And I know you were at someone, but like more than you would have realized just because I know when to not play. Like when I was younger, the tendency when you're lost is to start play. Why play if you don't know where you are?

Shut your mouth, kid. Yeah, most pros can convince you they've never been lost. That's what I was saying. Like, if you're good at it. I just lift up my hands and make it like, ooh, I'm so tasteful. I'm not even going to play anything right now. Just feeling this right now. Yeah, buddy.

Cool. Well, this was good. Yeah, it's fun. Thank you. How was that? Not good. Not good. Well, it was good.

It just wasn't what I was named was. It was better than mine, but still not great. Fun question. So we are, continue to climb up the music charts on the, on the, I mean, by checking every five minutes, it's a slow climb. If we were to start checking daily, maybe it would be better. But yeah, we are. So we appreciate the love you guys are showing us with the ratings and reviews. We have a lot of listeners in a lot of really interesting places.

I'm super excited about that. Are you excited about that? I mean, I'm excited. You're excited. Yeah. everywhere from New Zealand to Nebraska We're known Yeah I mean

Point we've this You know this Portuguese guy here in Barcelona Yeah I mean one of the coolest places If I was in Barcelona Would I listen to some guys from St. Well maybe Who else?

Well You'll hear it