You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How To Direct A Band of Inexperienced Players - #102

Episode Date: May 11, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam discuss some tips on leading a band. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Menace and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Today we're going to talk about how to direct a band of inexperienced players. Do I have to go to conducting school for this, that kind of direction? Or what are you talking about? Oh yeah, I'm definitely going to recommend you go to conducting school. I actually need to, man. Have you ever tried to conduct?

It's way harder than it looks. Well, that could be number one for us. You know, do not start waving your arms around in front of a bunch of inexperienced players if you don't know what you're doing. Okay, that's number one. So this is actually let's listen to this. This is great. This is another user question that we have in the audio format. This is Patrick.

And I'm going to be a scene. I'm doing an independent study in jazz, a new addition to that being. My school has never really focused on. I was wondering if you guys might have teach improvisation to some people that may not really be familiar with the idea. And just general stuff like that. Anyway, I love the podcast. So thanks a lot. All right.

Awesome, Patrick. So glad you're digging the podcast. And happy to hear that we have a bit of a high school fan base. I had no idea. That's great. So I don't know, man. Like, you know, it sounds like this is kind of a two-headed question, right? About, one is about sort of how to lead a band and how to successfully kind of set up a band and maybe a set. And then the other is to how to engage and maybe help. more inexperienced musicians get better. I think that's what are you saying, right? Right. Yeah, and I think with the, again, also about how to teach improv, which is like the hardest thing to teach. So maybe we should end with that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I would say that in general, you know, if you want to really direct, I'm of the school that you should be as clear as possible with your musicians.

You know, have an idea before going into the class or going into the rehearsal, what tunes you want to play, make sure you have recordings for them so that they're on the same page with you. Don't just throw a lead sheet in front of them and say, you know, we're going to try this and you've never heard this or have any context for this, but we're just going to play it. Make sure that they have audio examples, maybe a couple different ones, so that they get a rounded experience of the tune. Make sure that if they read music and you want them to read music, they have charts. You know, I did a summer jazz camp here in St. Louis at Webster Grove's High School for the last two years. And for some reason, I get put with the middle school group. And I love it. And one of the things that I always do is we do one blues tune off a chart.

We don't even start with a chart. We learn, you know, but da-da-de-ba-de-da-da-da-da-a-de, what is that? Now is the time. Yep. You know, and I just play it for them, and they learn it by ear, and then we play it by ear, and we talk about the chord changes a little bit, but there's not a lick of sheet music. That's another, that's kind of a two-headed approach, too, because you can lead your band that way. You can set up your ensemble and your set, but you could also kind of begin to teach them about

improvisation by ear. Yeah, and I think that learning the melodies by ear, that can really empower a young player or an inexperienced player and be a great entree into improvising, because most high school age players are very intimidated, like we all were about improvising, because it's like, what do I play? And even if you can figure out what to play, it's not going to sound good, and you know that because you've got ears. So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, one of the most difficult things when you're learning any kind of music that's written and good once you get to the point where you can play even about a third of it you it starts to sound kind of good whereas with improvisation it can take months if not even years to start to sound

good and that's why so many people quit doing it you know but i think that you know playing by ear that starts to open up your ears to the point where you might do that and i would just say in general a nice little trick to directing or leading a band um is to as much as possible lead your players, your followers, to a place where the music is teaching them so that you're not having to direct them. So in this case, you know, having some great music, some recordings, having them play by year

because the music is where it's at. Like if it's all about you as the leader, the conductor, and I think great conductors do this. They're like, it's all about the music. They're up there directing traffic a little bit, but it's like you're just pulling everybody together in the spirit and the flow. of the actual composition.

And I think with jazz, it's really no difference. So a lot of times, I think unsuccessful band leaders and stuff make it all about them. I want you to do this. Do it like this. In fact, you can even be careful in how you speak to them and just say, you know, the music requires this. If somebody's not doing their part

or it's going to sound great, you know, if your part is such an important part of the music, of this tune and your supporting role or whatever it is, always have it about the music. And then the great thing about that is you don't have to do as much directing. The music starts to direct. things. Yeah, that's a great point. And, you know, when you have these recordings of whatever you're going to play, I think maybe a good exercise to do would be to listen and then to kind of talk about

what you heard afterwards and start defining everybody's roles for them, right? So if, you know, if the bass player doesn't know exactly what they're supposed to do, say, well, what was the bass player doing? Oh, they were walking in, you know, four quarter notes a measure. That's what I'll do. And then again, you don't have to do as much directing. You're just letting them figure out what the music requires. And then for just one more kind of very technical thing, if you do a blues, which I think you should do a blues, because it's like the form that's most ingrained in all humans right now,

then you can kind of get into like one scale that maybe everybody can try improvising on, you know, the blue scale comes to mind. Oh, I was going to say. How about the blue scale? That'll fit nicely. Works well over the bluesed. And other things. And they should probably take all, they change the blue scale for every court, right?

We love doing that. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. When it goes to the four, definitely change the blue. No, don't do that. Don't do that at all. Well, I think that's, you know, that's a great thing to do. And it kind of flows into what I would say is going to be an important challenge for

you, Patrick, is that in leading anything, it's not as much about, you know, I'm going to kind of contradict myself. I just said it's all about the music, but it's important to have the music lead things as far as that'll take the pressure off of you as saying do it like this when you connect it with the music because the music will start to teach them and then you don't have to teach them everything. But I would say just in terms of leading them, their inexperienced, especially on your question about the improv, it's such a tough thing to do that you have, a big part of your job is just going to be to make everybody comfortable. Because anybody, and the younger you are, the worse it is.

I mean, you just don't have confidence in something that you can't do. So you have to look at whatever players you get in your after school program, the talent level, the ability level, the technical agility that they have. It is what it is. I mean, you can tell them, you guys suck, go home and practice, but you don't have time for that. You have to take them where they are. So then, you know, as the leader, you have to say, okay,

how can I best make this ensemble? How can I bring out the best in everyone? And I think a big part of that, even before you get to this is the blue scale, It's just making them comfortable, making them feel like they're in a safe place, and trying to get them to a place of playing music as quickly as possible that at least sounds acceptable. Because then it starts to get fun, you know? That's right. I mean, it's like if you're trying to, you know, you've got a bunch of kids and you want to teach them baseball,

and maybe some of them are athletic and some of them aren't, but you've got to put a team together. I mean, the best thing is to get to that point where they're at least playing a little baseball. Don't give them every rule about extra endings and all that. You can teach them that later. But like get them out there throwing the ball and having some fun and let the game teach them a little bit. Yeah, that's right. I mean, now we're kind of dipping our toe into some leadership skills here. But this is part of leading a band, actually. Right. It's the leading part of the one thing that I like to try to practice, and I'm not always successful at this, but I try to keep my criticisms to the absolute minimum and really try to get the sound I want out of a group I'm leading by praising the things I like, by emphasizing the things I hear that I want to hear more of.

So would that be the accentuate the positive concept? But no, it's a huge part of, I think, successful leadership. Yeah. I would actually, Patrick, the first day, you know, after each tune, pick a couple people in the ensemble and just compliment something that you genuinely liked. You know, don't try to fake the funk here. No. You know, make sure you're paying attention and say things that are from the heart.

But people will open up and play a lot better when they feel that they're being heard and that they're being encouraged. As opposed to, you suck. stop doing that. That almost never works. That's just going to create a bad one. That's the old browbeat and berate B-B-B-D-D concept of leadership.

This isn't the Buddy Rich Orchestra, we're sure. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that that kind of berating stuff, if it works at all, only works with very high-level, experience older players that can take it kind of thing. Exactly. And maybe even deserve it.

Old road dogs who have been around the block some of the time. Gristled. Yeah, that's right. Put down that bottle of whiskey and get your beep together. Yeah, chances are those guys were all drunk. anyway. Right, right.

But, yeah, well, we hope that these little tips help. I think that for sure, you know, empowering the players, let them learn from the music, really giving them the confidence. Those are going to be the most important things. I know you're probably thinking more along like what charts to do. I mean, you'll be able to figure that out, but make them as comfortable as possible. Give them a little thing. I think, Adam, your idea from the beginning about the blues is the biggest repertoire,

positive decision that you can make because it ties in with. something that could actually be learned to be played by ear by even a lower skilled player, beginner level, and is, you know, in terms of learning one scale, yes, it's a challenge, but it's one scale that you can use over that whole form that they probably know already can get them into a little bit of improv.

I mean, it's probably going to be, but that's okay. I mean, that's better than what it could be. That's right. And, you know, Patrick, if you're having any other problems, you'll hear it. Thanks for listening to this. episode of the You'll Hear It podcast. You can go to you'll hear it.com to get more

information, submit a question, or just say hello. Well you can do that. Absolutely. All right and if you like what you heard please leave a review and a rating below. Thanks.