You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How To Have A Bulletproof Method of Phrasing

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

In this episode, Peter and Adam delve into the art of phrasing and musical conversation. They explore effective ways to articulate thoughts while playing music, emphasizing the importance of expressing one's musical intentions in real-time dialogue with the music itself.↓ Links from the pod ↓Peter's 57 Greatest Jazz StandardsHave a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Jazz. Explain. Peter, explain what happened at the end of the time. Well, we are going to do exactly that today. I'm calling the all-time ultimate. Okay. I'm sorry, the all-time ultimate.

Audible. Audible. Okay.com. We're going to break down what we just did right there. Okay. Because that was totally spontaneous. It was. I thought we were starting the episode.

And we did start the episode. But you went back to an old classic. Yeah. An old Warhorse. Well, you did this video called 57 Greatest Jazz Standards all the time in which you played all the things you are, but you did it in 3-4. And people have been posting their versions of that. Like, it's the greatest thing that's ever happened, which is amazing.

I haven't seen this. Yeah, man. I have not seen one of these. Everybody's thrilled about all the things you are in 3-4. And it's killing. So I thought we would bring it back today a little bit. Okay. Yeah.

Well, but you kind of surprised me on that. And I was just thinking as we were playing, which might explain or excuse some of my blunders there at the end. Because I was already thinking ahead. I'm always thinking a hint, buddy, when I should be thinking about what we're doing. No, but I was thinking this would be so fun to talk about like how do you create something totally spontaneous that, at least to the audience. Of course, we know that playing all the things you are is not totally spontaneous. So we can talk about the commonality, the different perceptions that we both bring to it.

But when we don't have an arrangement, we don't even, I mean, you didn't even say we're going to play that. Usually we'll be like, hey, you want to try this? You just start playing something. Just start playing something. How do you jump in? How do you jump in and make something hopefully? that's interesting musically but that's also inclusive

to the audience of like some spontaneity so it doesn't sound like it's overly rehearsed but doesn't sound like a jumbled mess. Well, maybe we could also talk about how to do it especially with two chordal instruments, two instruments that can be... Cortal? Cortal?

Cortal, as in playing chords. But you did play some chorus, I heard you? Cortals. But we get asked all the time about piano and guitar stuff, two piano things we don't get asked about as much because it's rarer. But it is something to consider. Yeah, I'm down to talk about what just happened there.

Yeah. So, okay, the first thing that I would say that was interesting, and if you're interested in doing this kind of thing, is like develop musical relationships, not just with music, of course, or with, you know, a great Brad Meldar recording or whatever of this tune, but develop musical relationship with other people that play.

Oh, yeah. Right? Because that is going to, there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to like, oh, I know what he's doing. Obviously, we know each other's playing, so we have a head start. Yeah.

But a lot of the things I find when you're developing musical relationships with individuals actually apply to other great musicians. So like when you get a chance to play with a really great player or any level of player, like cherish that and like think about not just what am I developing for my playing. Like what am I developing in? It's like developing the art of conversation. Yeah. That's not just about studying other great speeches from Winston Churchill or something. It's like, you know, kind of leaning into the moments that we have to convert, which could be. We had a coffee shop with the barista, whatever.

Like, these all go into our conversational skills. And when we're playing the music like this, we think it's about, oh, how good can I play these chords? Like how's, but this becomes, when it's a spontaneous thing, it's just really more about how can I be a good conversationalist. Yeah. Which is listening, which is talking, which is shutting up, which is like complimenting, which is, you know, playfulness, whatever the situation, you know. So it's like, you don't want to make it even so precious where it's like when he plays Sharp 9, I play flat. No, it's like how do you respond in the moments because everything's going to be flying at you at a speed that you're not accustomed to. I think you nailed it with just the very first thing. Number one on the show, listen.

Yeah. You've got to be listening. And to listen, really, to really listen, you actually can't be thinking about what you want to say next. If you're in a conversation. Right. You actually have to be. Right. Exactly. That's what I was going to say. And so I'm trying to show an example of what not to do. You have to be present within yourself. And sometimes it takes reminding yourself, like the little voice in your head that's like, ooh, I just thought of a good thing to say. And, oh, I could elaborate on that.

You have to, like, actually recognize that voice and sort of say, okay, shut the hell up. Calm down. What is actually happening here in the moment? What is Peter actually playing? And then try to hear that music as a whole. Do you ever do that? Do you ever like listen to when you're playing with other?

people, you listen to the room, everything that's happening as a whole, as if they're not two separate people or three separate people, but just everything happening in a singularity, right? It's all part of it. And what you're providing is part of that whole and hearing your part as part of it as opposed to, I'm going to get in there and do my thing, right? It's like, what is, what is supposed to be happening? Yeah. Yeah. So like what you play, if I'm, if I'm present in the moment, if I'm listening to you, if I'm being true to myself and not trying to to just interject myself all the time, what you play is going to completely change what I play.

Like, whatever it is the content that you do, I'm hearing that as part of the whole content of the universe, as well as like the traffic, Caleb's phone going off, Andy coming into the studio, it's all part of the thing that's happening. It's a big jumbled mess up in here. Is that what you're saying? Big jumbled mess, yeah.

Well, and I think, too, what's interesting about that is when we talk about developing, you know, musical relationships, it's about, it could be anybody. Like, you don't want to get fixated on, like I know Adam's playing and so I'm listening but I know what he usually plays there and so I'm going to complete his sentence. It's like you want to bring a certain level of naivete as they might

say on the continent. I don't know which country. O contrary. O contrary. I'm all for it. But I mean like you want to still give you don't want to like there's a negative side that you can exploit to knowing somebody's playing that can be a little bit exclusionary to some excitement to the audience. Whereas It's like you're playing so well together that there's no like discovery. There's quality and there's like a matching, but there's no mystery being unveiled to the audience, you know? Whereas if you develop musical relationships and then apply those to any situation. So in other words, it's like you started playing that.

I was like, oh, cool. I wasn't even thinking like, wait, what tune is. I mean, I knew the tune, but I wasn't thinking all the things you are. I was like, oh, yeah, I remember that. And I'm trying to hear like I'm open to it being whatever key. I'm making sure I'm not coming in like. And I wasn't even thinking it was in three. It took me a while to even.

and I was just reacting to the vibe and the feel that you were presenting. That's right. So then it's also important to like kind of take that to a constant listening, even as like I might have sort of taken the lead at a certain point. I'm still questioning you in a musical way.

Yes. Because just like a conversation, if you're only saying, oh, I heard what you said. Now let me say what I'm going to say. That's right. There has to be a constant, oh, that's cool.

Well, when did you start doing that? Or where are you going with that? Like questions. And then you said, Like that, and there's no right or wrong way to do that, but there's a certain openness to having that question. Musical questions always, they can really make it exciting. Let's do a little more playing on this and see if we can expand on this. So if I ask a question like, okay, so like there so far, that felt good.

I wanted to keep going on. I want to show people kind of my thinking on this, like, you know, you're starting the tune. And then when I came in, it might have seemed a little busy. I was doing like counter melodies. Well, yeah, I was not being busy. I was doing like on purpose, setting you up to be. Right. But I gave it a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Because I was like, let me let me let the music breathe a little bit, even though I could have probably jumped in with that earlier. But I was trying to find that place where it's like, okay, time to walk in the room, you know? Yeah. So let me, let's do the counter counter. Okay. What if I did something like this?

So right there, right there. Just where we left up. You took the melody on the bridge, obviously. So I'm playing way thicker. I'm not leaving the space for you to do anything. You had to creep in in a very subtle way. And I even came in probably a little earlier than I would. Like if you were playing like that,

I would be like, it doesn't need anything. We don't have, just because we're both here, but I wanted to do something because. Yeah, yeah. But then you took the melody on the bridge. And then at the end of the bridge, it wasn't certain that I would come back in with the melody,

which I did come back in the melody. But you left enough space to like beg the question. Right. You want this? Right. You were just like, you were like, and I didn't look up either. Like, that's one way to do. It would be like, but sometimes you don't have, like, don't give every visual cue that you think you have to do.

Right. Because then it becomes too, even for the audience, I'm always thinking about that. Like, how does this look to the audience if it's like, because then they're like, oh, he's about to come in. Like, let the music happen. It's not going to be perfect every time. But you have to have that risk, I think. That's right. And if I wouldn't have taken that ball that you offered a platter, you probably would have gotten back to the melody.

Is it a platter or ball? I don't know. Is it a piece of fish? A platter with a ball. Maybe a chicken sandwich? I don't know. Let's try one more here. I was going to say one other thing about that, too, that when I went to the bridge, a little bit of advice is like, even if it's, you know, two pianos, there's always like this kind of a quality because we're playing the same instrument.

But if you're playing with a singer, duo, whatever, a guitar piano, like, don't be afraid to be assertive with something. That doesn't mean you're not listening. Like, when I made the decision to play the melody at the bridge, even though what you were doing almost would have led to do that. I was going for it. I was going to continue on. But I also played the melody. melody, I wasn't like, oh, I'm in the back, because that makes it harder for you. Because then if you're like, wait, is he taking it or not? Just do something, you know?

And so you have to be assertive. Sometimes that won't work, like the first time on the intro when I went to the A major and you'd already played the A flat. Like that was a little bit of a train wreck, but I was like, I didn't switch off of it because that makes it harder for you because then it's like, wait, I'm there. I'm there. Oh, sorry. No, let me open the door. Let me, no, it's like just do something and make it work, you know. All right. I want to see what you, how you react to this one. Yeah. Until next time, we'll hear it.