You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How to Play "Out" - #11

Episode Date: February 10, 2018

Take it out - but know how to get there. And also how to get back home. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Manus. Welcome to the You'll Hear It podcast. Today we're going to talk about how to play out. Like how to play outside, out of doors, right? No, I think more outside of the changes I think we're talking about. Oh, how to play out. Okay.

Yeah, how to play out. Why don't you kick this one off, Adam? Yeah, so, I mean, the first thing that we usually talk about when we talk about playing outside is dissonance, right? That's what we're talking about. We're talking about playing outside of the diatonic core changes of whatever tune you're playing in. Now, the easiest way to do this, and the first thing that most people will tell you, is to go outside chromatically.

So if we're playing in, let's say, C minor, for instance, what we can do is play a phrase in C minor and then play a phrase in, let's say, D flat minor, which is a half step away, and then back to C minor. And that also works if we take that phrase and go a half step below to B minor, so we can play in C minor. minor for a little bit, play in B minor, and then back to C minor.

I mean, remember, when you're playing out, we don't want to play out the whole time. We want to take it out just for a bit, just to kind of make our listeners go, ooh, and then we want to bring them back in. So we're playing in C minor, go to B minor, back to C minor. Oh, thank you. So that is your first way to take it out. You can slide up or down chromatically. And actually, we can surround the tonal center chromatically. So we can do a little bit in D flat minor, we can do a little bit in B minor, and then go back to C. So we'll start in C, we'll do D flat minor, we'll do B minor, and then back to C.

Yeah, and I think, you know, what's important for us to keep in mind as we're going to these other areas, and you alluded to the tension and a little bit big, you know, going into this other area, is that that's the whole point for the listener. They don't need to know, they won't know, most of them, that you're going up chromatically, or even what that means, but they will have that feeling of unsettledness, you know? Absolutely. And so it's all about starting somewhere that's settled. And, you know, by being settled, we're just talking about harmonically,

but there's always the rhythmic and the melodic component, too. So if we make one area kind of unsettled the harmony where it's clashing some, we have the ability then to bring it back home and to make the listener settled again. It's almost like a horror movie when, you know, you're watching and you're like, don't go in there and then, you know, they're slashing, and then they get to a safe zone or whatever. Well, and for me, this is what makes going outside so much fun, and it's almost a personal thing.

Everybody has their own level of comfort with how much they're willing to go outside before they bring it back home. You know, there's some standard areas where we all kind of take it out and then bring back, but it can be a very personal thing to add to your playing, how much you go outside. Yep.

So another way that I like to go outside besides just your straight chromatic, like you were just talking about above and below, if we take that same C minor sound, would be to be thinking a little bit more, I guess, melodically. So you take one simple melodic shape. So it might be something that's kind of triatic. And then look at other places you can go.

And you can do that chromatically, or you can just kind of, you know, that kind of thing. So I'm sort of, there's that B-flat triad that fits over that nicely. And then, you know, E, D. And a lot of times I'll go somewhere that I know is not at all related. to make it even more unsettling. But what happens is you can, I find usually you can stay out for longer

because the melodic content is so strong. And even the inner sort of harmonic thing of that triad, you know, and I mean, I always think about, you know, what is that, does Stevie one? Yeah, yeah. He really went through that, I'm too high, too high.

Yeah, it's great. You know, he's going through those kind of triads and taking it really out and moving around chromatically, but it's such a strong triad. That the triad is so strong you can kind of go for longer before you ultimately resolve it. Right. The triad is what's gluing everything together in that case. The sound of it's so strong. Well, another way of doing this in that kind of same genre of taking it out is to keep the same tonality throughout a set of changes. What do I mean by that? So let's say we're playing the tune Autumn Leaves. Right, we all know this.

So instead of, as we're soloing here, instead of playing C minor 7 to F7 to B flat major 7, you just pick one quality of chord, and you can play that over each root. So instead of C minor 7, I'll play C major 7. And instead of F7, I'll play F major 7. And then I'll play B flat major 7 and E flat major 7. And then usually it's an A half diminished,

but I'll play A major 7. I'll just make everything major 7. sevens just for a little bit and because the root movement is the same as the tune and because the chord quality is the same the whole way it actually kind of glues everything together so here we go autumn leaves with everything is major sevens sorry let me try that again here we go autumn leaves everything is a major seven so then I went back to the regular changes and we're home again right But those sort of series of major sevens, it feels like there's a pattern.

And I think that's the key to this. But it's definitely outside of the changes. Absolutely. Yeah, there's a pattern and there's also that resolution. So you talk about you're going out. Now you're not going out chromatically. You're not going out with triads. You're going out with some alternate harmony for an extended period.

But then by bringing it back home, that's that release. And I think that's the important thing about playing out. However you do it, and there's these ways that we talked about, but there's many others to explore as well, and you'll hear some on recordings and figure them out and be like, ah, I know how to do that. But always remember how you resolve it is just as important as how you take it out,

because that's the whole thing. This is adding drama to your soul. The whole point of going out is not to say, hey, I can play out. Because sometimes we'll hear players go out because they don't actually know the courts or they're lost or something. That's not actually a legal way of playing out.

I mean, I guess it is, but then there's no, there has to be some kind of resolution. Now you may get lost sometimes and start playing out, so turn that into something positive. You know, kind of try to get your bearings, continue to play real melodically and rhythmically strong, and then once you find where you are in the harmony, bring it back to where it is, keep the groove and the form going, and you'll actually be able to kind of back your way into some outplaying. Yeah. Well, no, but you're right, though. If you set up any kind of structure to your outplaying, your audience is still going to stay with you, because they're going to hear some kind of pattern, whether that's, you know, making every chord,

a major seven chord or making a triadic pattern. They're going to lock on with you, even if you're not in the changes. Right. So basically you're saying to the audience, you'll hear it. Oh! Come on now. Come on now. That's it for today's episode of the You'll Hear It Podcast. For more information or to hear more of these podcasts, go to openstudio network.com slash podcast.