You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How To Shed on Hard Tunes

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

Today, Peter and Adam discuss some practice techniques that can help you build up your skills for the more difficult tunes.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Friday's Open Studio Live Events:1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)3:00 PM - Piano Guided Practice Session with Adam on YouTube8:00 PM - Shelter in Place solo piano concert with Peter on YouTubeFor the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey there, folks, this is Andrew, long-time producer of the You'll Hear Your Podcast. It's that time of year again. Yes, Black Friday is almost upon us. And you know what that means. Deals, deals, deals, baby. For a limited time, Open Studio is going to be offering Choose What You Pay on our subscriptions. All you got to do is go to Open Studiojazz.com slash YHI to get early access to Black Friday savings. That's Open StudioJazz.com slash YHI. Check the description for a link. Hey, guess what? These deals have already started. Check out some of our subscriptions like the Piano Access Pass, which you can get right now for only $20 a month. You won't see deals like these again anytime soon, so go to open studio jazz.com slash yHI for more info. Thanks for listening,

and now please enjoy our regularly scheduled programming. Hey, Peter. Yo, do you own a shed? Check it. Obviously you do. Yeah, we'll see. I'm Matt Amanas. And I'm Peter Martin, and you're listening to the Uly Here podcast. daily music advice and inspiration and an instruction manual for your cultural and creativity coming at you yeah

yeah and today we're coming at you sponsored by Open Studio go to Open Studio Jas.com for all of your jazz lesson needs courses by Peter, me, Jeffrey Keiser, Aeio Aldous, Christian McBride, John Jones, just to name a few. I like how you named the pianist first.

As we would. As we should. Yeah, as we should. Steve Wilson, saxophone. What do you know about that? Oh man. I was just texting with, you know, we call him Wilsonian. That is his nickname. The Wilsonian, like the Smithsonian. Like the Smithsonian.

He's like an encyclopedia and a museum of saxophone. He's a great saxophone teacher. Well, and actually, for what we're talking about today, Steve Wilson would be wonderful to reference because what are we talking about? We're talking about how to shed hard tunes, right? How do you shed on a tune that you find extremely difficult? Yeah. And why would you shed on a tune that you find difficult?

Right, because it's very difficult. we want to seem easy. I would just put up Exhibit A. Steve Wilson, aka Wilsonian, who's in a small group of masterful players that I've been around and had the pleasure of playing with

that are kind of the end result of how to play over a hard tune after you've shedded for a long time. Sure. Like that's the promised land that you want to get to. So I always think we talk about painting it done and having a goal or whatever. So, yeah, why would we want to shed on a hard tune?

I think it's to get to be a player like Steve Wilson, where you can play over a really hard tune like it's easy. Well, yeah. And it also is important, I think, to constantly be pushing yourself just outside of your comfort zone, right? ABP, always be pushing. Always be pushing. No, we want to find that space.

We talk about it a lot around here, about finding that space where it's not safe. It's not safe. It's not safe. It's not safe. It's also not super, super hard. So you want to find a tune. Or I think we could also probably, I don't know about you, but I feel like we could put this kind of episode in.

It's not just a hard tune, but maybe we get asked a lot about playing in odd meters or hard keys, you know, or with my left hand or you know, finger independence or just anything that a concept or a tune that you just don't have yet, it seems really, really hard.

Stry piano, right? Yeah, yeah. And I think the key to all of these things is that they're not hard, they're just unfamiliar to you. Right. They're not hard. They're just difficult. They're not hard. They're just impossible. you just haven't spent any time on it right i mean there was a certain point where playing you know a c triad would be super hard for you i mean you're a baby and you don't know what you're doing

you know what i'm saying right so uh except for me i came out of the came out of the womb just this is very fun i just got to receive the text message from steve wilson totally overlaid no way yeah tell him we're podcasting about him right now as we speak no this is a great point you're making though and that is like you know difficulty and challenges however you want to look at them, there's always a continuum of them. And we actually have more experience with looking at a mountain and being like,

oh my gosh, how am I gonna scale that mountain? We have more experience than we think. Sometimes you have to turn around and look at what you've already done. That's right. Be at a triad, be at a diminished scale, be it whatever. And that's the joy about the continuum

of learning this music is that we're always somewhere, like if you've made it past the first stage of playing the triad and playing a may, playing a major scale and the foundational things, you've already accomplished a lot, you know, in terms of, like, you're going to reference a C triad more in your improvisation, even as you're very advanced,

than you'll ever reference the exact, say, giant steps changes, actually. Yeah, yeah. You know, so that's like truly a building block, a foundation. I would say, too, you know, if we want to start getting into maybe how to approach it before you hit the shed, right?

So we're shedding on hard tunes. How do we shed on them? There's some things you can do to kind of prep. And you might get out your Pujo, your practice journal. Right. By the way, we offer open studio practice journals that are super popular. And they're very good as part of the, of the part of the preparation to practice. We like to call procrastination where you have to have this exact tool.

If you don't have a Steinway, nine foot, don't even start practicing yet. Keep saving up your money. No. But we want to have a plan, I think, is what you're saying. You can have a little plan. So your goal might be, okay, I want to be able to play giant steps like I can play have you met Ms. Jones, right? Or like I can play the blues. C jam blues. Right. I want to be able to

just go through here without thinking and it just all comes. What do I need to do to accomplish that? So, the first thing to do is to maybe break it down into practicable pieces, right? So maybe the first day you get in there saying like, okay, I'm going to be able to play two-handed voicings on every chord, right, at 300 beats per minute. Whoa. It's a busy first day, buddy. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you try to take on too much at once,

if you say, okay, I need to, by the end of this first session, be able to play through this tune. Well, you're not going to be able to do that. So see if you can plan out some manageable chunks and say, okay, I have 20 minutes to work on this today because I have some other stuff that I need to work on. What can I get accomplished in 20 minutes? Well, maybe it's either breaking it down to just, okay, I can do like the root and the melody through the whole tune. Yeah. Right? Or I can do maybe some chords with the, the melody full chords, but only just that first four bars. Right, right.

So it's kind of a give and take of what do I have the bandwidth, what do I have the time for? And you can actually plan out your week and your month with this in mind. And you're going to have to adjust as you, some things are going to be easier or something's going to take more or less time. But this idea of breaking it into manageable chunks and then just being kind of systemic about it, right? Like just being, just having your system set up.

And that way you don't have to think about, well, what am I going to practice with giant steps today? Yeah, yeah. You have that. Or maybe it's just baselines one day. Maybe it's just the chords one day. You know, you can figure this out. And what's great about having a system like that and systematizing it, as you say,

is that that will allow within that framework of, say, learning giant steps over a month, it'll take into account and naturally adjust for days that you have bigger breakthroughs, which are going to happen. You want those to happen. Totally. And to be able to take advantage of that. And days where you're just going to kind of feel like you're not getting any of. because sometimes on those days where you just you spend an hour and you're like,

oh, I just can't get it. You're actually closer than you think. And you can't just measure it based upon how you're going to plan it out. But by having a system, it kind of averages out in a way. Like you can fall behind on some days and then catch back up because sometimes that's your mind or your body or just kind of your whole thought and learning process, letting you know that, hold on, I just need a break in order to absorb and catch up with

this. And sometimes you sleep, you know, it's like when you wake up, in the morning and something there's like you're thinking about a problem the night before and all of a sudden it pops into your head so that can be when you come back to the instrument you might not have to sleep you might come back later in the day it might be three days but this kind of like a system but with a little bit of flexibility and may you know built into it so that you don't feel like oh my gosh I'm falling behind knowing that you've got the ability to catch back up at a certain point and I think that having some real benchmarks as you go that are not every day can help with that so maybe every week

Like you might say, I'm going to have, or say every three days, say I'm going to really solidify every four bar phrase of giant steps. And as opposed to like every day, this is what I'm going to accomplish. Yeah. So then when you get there and then you also have that flexibility that you refer to so that when you hit the breakthroughs, which are normally going to happen when you start to be able to identify consciously or not or subconsciously some patterns in how these tunes unfold. if we're talking about learning a tune, which is what we're talking about. So that, a little bit of preparation will go a long way, I think, towards that, in that as you're putting this system together, say for giant steps, before you just jump right in to sort of look at the whole and look at the whole tune and say,

like, okay, how many phrases are there and how are they connected? So that even before you get to the second phrase, you maybe have identified a pattern. In this case, so that's the first phrase, the harmony movement. And then you've got a two five to the next phrase, right? That's setting it up. That's the bridge going into the next phrase. And then you've got which is the same thing just in another key as. That's right.

So what does that mean? Well, that second phrase, we should actually not have to practice it as much as the first one because it's the same thing. So as opposed to saying, I'm going to learn something totally new. We've identified a pattern in advance to the structure, the construction, the architecture of the tune that can take. tell us, well, actually, that second phrase, we're going to learn, we've learned the first phrase. So we're going to front load really studying, understanding, hearing, learning that first phrase, those intervals between the melody and the root, and then how it sets up to the next phrase so that when we get to the next phrase, we're actually learning a transposition.

Yeah. Learning in another key that first one. And then there's all these kind of embedded patterns that are there. like, you know, that's the same chord as that, and that's just going through the harmony. So the second phrase should be easier, is what I'm trying to say. Should be.

Yeah. Should be. And it will be. It will be. You may end up spending the same amount of time on it, but those things that you kind of notice later and to try to get to that Wilsonian level. And I'll just clarify with that,

it's just what I meant by him being kind of the promise land of where you want to get, you're gonna have the freedom on these hard tunes to be, able to improvise just like you're improvising over C-Jam Blues. That's the Wilsonian level. That's where it's just like, you're so relaxed because you're like, I understand this just as well as I do something that's very simple to me. And so you're going to be spending more time on it.

But by going through it a little bit in an organized and a regimented way as we're proposing here, once you do get there, you're going to have that clarity. You're going to have that complexity boiled down to like, wow, this is simple. It wasn't easy because I spent a bunch of time. So difficult doesn't become easy. difficult becomes simple. That's great. So another thing that you might add to your shedding on this

is to identify some areas that are you're having trouble with and do some cross-training on those areas, right? So let's say, again, we're on giant steps, and you're like, oh, man, I'm having a real hard time any time it shifts to the key of B because giant steps goes through these three tonalities, right? So then you might say, okay, well, maybe, I'll take one whole session away from Giant Steps,

but I'll play like, just mess that up. I need to shed that. There it is. Right, you do another tune in the key of B, right? Because now you're taking time with some 251s in the key of B.

You're spending time. It gives you a little more time with B than Giant Steps does. You're acclimating to that neighborhood. Right. Or maybe you're like, man, you know, these changes on Giant Steps are just moving by so fast.

Like, how do I get better at that? you might then just spend a day on like a rhythm changes, but fast, right? But it's a little bit more everything is in the same key. Right? It's not quite the same, but it's kind of getting your brain in that space and everything's changing very fast, but it's a little more doable, right? You're kind of assisting yourself up. Yep.

Or maybe it's like, uh, I'm having trouble with the two fives, right? You can just practice two five ones for a while in your session. And that's going to help with giant steps. Oh, yeah. You know, so this kind of idea of taking. making whatever that idea is, you know, maybe it's a tune in seven or something and you're having a hard time, you know, staying in it. Maybe you do a session in three, right? It's not quite four. It's still a little bit of an odd meter, but you're kind of still practicing in something that's making you think a little bit. Ramp up to it or maybe in five, you know. Oh, this guy's doing giant stuff. Seven is ridiculous.

That was a good idea you had. Oh, my gosh. Is that seven? There it is. Yeah, but that kind of stuff, it's a lot. little bit of, I mean, jumping right to that, of course, you want to know the changes first, but that place, it's that same theme that you're referring to where the cross train. I love that concept because you're putting some other challenges on that will start to push into the subconscious, the things that you're learning.

Yeah. You know, as you go. And I would just add to that. You can also think about, like, say you feel like you're having trouble with the B, we think about that first phrase, and this is really understanding the architecture and breaking it down so that these hard tunes never become just a series of, chords one after another. Like we want to identify patterns in the

and this does not have to be on a theoretical level. No. It can be. But most importantly, it's on an ear training level. It's understanding it's just by ear. You can make other connections as you need to. But if we think about that, the beginning of the phrase and the end of the phrase. Like where do we start?

B major and where do we end? And we were just talking about on that other tune earlier today with the Herbie Hancock. Yeah. So, and you know, this starts to acclimate you to the way we actually want to present our solo over form like this. Because to the listener, like, that's very quick. But that's the first place you sit for a minute for four beats, right? Everything else is two beats.

So that's important for the listener and for the architecture. Oh, for sure. So if you're like, like we have to know, we have to almost be able to play over that E flat before we get there, right? And then we're starting to get ready for the G, you know. So a little bit of subtraction on these. tough tunes, even if it's like... Where are you going? Where are the signposts? Exactly.

Because there's nothing wrong with before you're at Wilsonian level to be like, you know, so I'm just playing B major for like, you know, what is it, three bars. Don't try that at home, kids. Don't try that at home. And then I'm like E flat major. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm like G major.

That's dope, man. Yeah. It's dope. Man. So I'll put one caveat on this whole thing. That's if you're attempting to play extremely fast, like faster than you've ever played. Yeah. If like this is your goal, that I think takes a little bit more deliberate work up to it. Yeah. And actually counterintuitively takes a lot of slow practice. Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? It takes mostly. Go slow to go fast. Listen to Peter Martin over here because you are so great at playing fast. It seems so natural. But I know you preach this all the time. You practice slow. And that helps you play fast.

Absolutely. I never, I never practice fast. I mean like, I mean, probably the, the, anything that I play in a performance situation fast, I probably the maximum I've ever played that. Even to sit down and play the tune like that for myself for fun is like 80%, 75%. So what do you think that does for you? Why do you think that works so well for you? Well, I think it gives you a better like hearing and clarity to what you have to play that you could actually miss if you're practicing too much fast.

Because we can, you know, every instrument has a way to kind of slay. slop your way through playing fast, especially if you're playing with other people or if you're playing like piano, like several parts, that you can make it sound like you know what you're doing when you play fast and you can not pay attention to details. So it's painful to play like, you know, if you wanted to go one, two, three, four.

I mean, at this point, it's almost harder for me. I have to concentrate more to play really in the time, interesting melodies, things that stretch over. Like the little trick I was saying about staying in B, you can do that when you're fast. You can be like And then go to E-flat. You can slap your way through it.

But if I'm doing it at that slow tempo, it's going to sound horrible. But what you're doing there too is giving yourself this time for your brain to really lock in to what's going on, right? And so then when you're called upon to play it fast, if you have dozens of reps at that, just the ideas are so much clear. Cole, train,

wrote giant steps, Atlantic Records, Tommy Flanagan. Then when you go into Oh, what Philadelphia? What John Coltrane? McCoy Tyner. What?

Pennsylvania. Electoral College. What? Oh, sorry. I was freeballing. Free bowling. Free bowling is different. Freestyle.

Free balling's different. But what that slow tempo does is give you that time. And it seems counterintuitive, but you heard it from Peter Martin himself. Like take more, way, way, way more time with the tune slowly if you're trying to play it fast. And I want to add one more thing before we're out here to, and I can't believe this is the last thing we're mentioning because it's usually number one. Oh, listen. Right. Listen to.

We've said it so much. We're just like, you know what, they got it. But we might have some new. That's assumed knowledge for our part at this time. It is part of the title, but no, it's important. It's important. Yeah, you must listen to this, to whatever you're working on, easy, hard, whatever it is. But make that part of your practice routine.

Yes. Of listening to it over and over and over again, it's only going to make it easier. Absolutely, absolutely. Cool. Well, this was awesome. There's a lot more we can talk. We'll come back. If you guys are enjoying this podcast,

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That's good stuff Well this was fun man Let's go practice some hard stuff Huh What Until tomorrow Manana What

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