You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - How to Swing - #20

Episode Date: February 19, 2018

In this episode, Peter and Adam discuss some ways you can practice and develop a strong sense of swing. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Anus. Welcome to the You'll Hear It podcast. Today we're going to tell you how to swing. I think we might be inviting the jazz police in on this one because I don't think we're supposed to talk about this. Didn't we deal with them like 10 episodes ago though? We did. Okay.

I think we're safe to jump in there. Okay. All right. So how to swing? I think we should first just, well, first of all, this is one of those areas where people say it can't be taught. There's a lot of mystery surrounding it and like what is swing? and you've got to feel it and you've got to, you know, live in a horrible neighborhood and be shot seven times before. Oh, no, that's the blues, I guess.

Right. No, but I mean, it's kind of an area that, you know, musicians, jazz musicians, it's been kind of an esoteric area. And I don't think it needs to be because I really do believe that you can learn how to swing. I mean, teaching it, can you just hand somebody a checklist and say, read this, do this, and then you'll be able to swing? No. But I think that we can help give you a few tips in order to be able for you to develop and sort of teach. teach yourself to swing and then have some comparisons to see as you get closer to that goal. I think that's fair, but let's tread lightly.

Okay, sounds good. Okay, so the first tip we have for you to develop how to swing is very simple. Listen to swing. What? Yeah, so I mean, how are you going to know how to get to the promised land unless you have a map on how to get there? And the best map to do that is to be listening so that you have some comparison in terms of what the sound is. So it's like how do you learn how to speak Spanish? Well, yeah, you can read books about it.

You can talk to people about it in other languages. But the best way is to listen to it a lot. And really, you know, swing sort of typifies what the jazz sound is. And there's a lot of different ways to swing, of course. But in general, you want to be listening to it so that you can identify it. Now, that doesn't mean just because you listen to it a lot, you're going to be able to do it. But at least you're going to be able to know if you're not doing it. That's right.

And then as you get better at it, you'll see you'll have some, comparison and see if you can get there or not. That's right. I mean, you won't be able to do it unless you listen to it, that's for sure. That's right. The other tip is to listen to different types of swing. You know what Louis Armstrong and Robert Glasper have in common? They're both swinging. Right. Do they sound anything like each other? No. No, not at all. No. But they are both swinging. So listen to different types of swing so you don't sound generic. So you don't have this generic prescription drug commercial swing vibe. Oh, it hurts. It hurts. That is not swinging.

Yeah, and if you listen to these, I mean, if you can identify the difference between, you know, Witten Kelly and Bill Evans, I mean, you can do that on one record, actually. Yeah, yeah. Or two tracks. Exactly. Or Herbie Hancock and Chick-Aurea. You know, there are different ways to swing. And, you know, a lot of musicians have found ways to swing hard that are unlike anything, anyone before them had ever done. It's one of the kind of great things about swing. It's a, you know it when you hear it kind of vibe, but it's such a strong feeling that it's definitely,

when it's there, it's there. Absolutely. And I think being able to hear different ways to swing, identify that in recordings is so important too because it shows you that actually swinging, a big part of it is being an individual. So that should emboldened you as you start to develop your rhythmic concept and your feel

to be able to be confident in your way of swinging. So because there isn't just one successful way to swing means that, hey, maybe your way to swing, you can find your way in there. And then that could be valid. Because it's such a matter of showcasing your personality. And that's why Clifford Brown sounds so different than Miles Davis the way that he would swing,

even though they're playing right at that same era, same tunes a lot of times with the same bands and even, you know, side men and things. because they were confident in who they were in their way of playing, even though they came up listening to a lot of the same players. But they listened to a lot of variety of things and then said, you know what, I'm going to be confident in my taking of this and my interjecting of my own personality into the swing. Well, think about just this short time period where it was like Philly Joe and then Tony Williams,

you know, in the same band within a 10-year span. Yeah. Totally different swing feel, but still both very swing. Right, absolutely. Now, I would say that one thing. that is constant among all these different ways to swing and to phrase and stuff is that very strong rhythmic foundation. So that's kind of a thing that binds things together. And that you can really practice. You can practice that by playing along with recordings. There's some

great backing tracks and stuff out there now where you've got some really swinging rhythm sections where just playing around those musicians and that kind of sound, I mean, yeah, it's not going to give you exactly what they have, but it's going to start to acclimate you to their way of swinging and then maybe seeing how you can fit your way of swinging into that. And I would say even you can extend that, then once you get that sound in your ears, to practicing with the metronome, because the metronome is going to keep you steady,

then you've got to use your imagination a little bit to really hear that swinging stuff around you, but you're doing it in the context of that steady time because that, no matter how you swing, is always super important. Absolutely. And then once you get that steady time, be confidence with your feel.

You know, in your swing, I mean, swing is kind of a swagger. It's a confidence. A couple weeks ago, my five-year-old son climbed up to the top of a very tall tree, and it was like, I was convinced he was going to fall and break. You know, I was like, yo, how'd you get up there? And he said, confidence. And I thought like, that is the key to so much in life, and it's no different with swing. If you're confident about it, you know, it's going to sound stronger. It's going to be more swinging.

And the little guy's still alive, right? I think so. Okay, he made it. See? It wasn't false confidence Absolutely. Yeah, I thought you were going to say he swung off the top of the That's how he learned to swing.

No, I would say, yeah, the confidence thing is so important And that goes right along with, you know, having a personality within the swing. So it's fine when you're practicing to emulate different ways that musicians swing and like learn their solos and really, Because I mean, the swing is like that intersection of the time and the phrasing, I think is what it really is. Totally. You know, you can't take away.

Like if you talk about, you know, I always come back to that, the Winton Kelly, Freddie Freeloader solo as being a great definition of swing. Of course, it's not the only way to swing. Tread lightly, tread lightly. I know, but, I mean, it is one way. And, you know, harmonically, you can look at what he's doing melodically, and of course it's swinging. But if you take it, you know, as great as those phrases are, and I'm trying to phrase it as closely as I remember him playing it, having that steady going while you play that is really important. for those phrases. They're not just on their own. So it has to be, you got to have that boom, boom, that heartbeat. That's the foundation of the swing, no matter what sample it is.

That's it for today's episode of the You'll Hear It Podcast. For more information or to hear these podcasts, go to openstudio network.com slash podcast.